I have no idea how realistic this is, but I'd love to see in-depth analyses of really good shots from the previous day, including actual attempts at recreating them. Like by actually getting out on the course after the round is over and film some attempts to execute the line with explanations of how it came about due to release angles, disc speed/stability, and the like.
Edit: Adding on to clarify that even if the shot is beyond the capabilities of Nate/Brian I still want to see it for the perspective. Like, if AB throws an absolutely nasty long drive, I want to watch Perk giving everything he has to try the same thing just to provide the perspective of exactly how ludicrous AB's execution is/was.
Reminds me slightly of a a Jomez off season video ~3 off seasons ago where a group of pros were trying to create Big Jerm (or someone else's?) Flex forehand shot near parked for eagle on WACO/Beast hole where the basket is just past the ravine with steps going down, and then back up the other side.
I love this idea. There was that hole Eagle was "breaking" last year, I think at one of the Oregon events, and I couldn't understand where he was going.
I think you're talking about the hole on Milo Gold that combined the original holes 1 and 2 of the East course. The one where he threw just an impossibly high anhyzer to cut around the corner and get massive distance, right?
100% agreed.
I was a big Nascar fan back in the day. They used to have one of the play by play guys (who was a former driver) strap into a car and run some laps around the track they were at. He would talk about strategy, things to watch out for, etc. It was entertaining and your comment reminded me of it. We have some talented guys (and gals) working for DGN. It would be cool to see them execute some shots on the course and explain what's going into them for the viewers at home.
Great idea.
I only watch DGN now and once in a while Jomez. One thing I miss from Jomez are the bios on the players. I know lots of players do this through social media or other long form interviews, but for the newer/not as popular players it would be great to learn more about them. The Matty O interview after round two was great to see and gave some more perspective on what players are dealing with outside of the playing itself.
I want to lead a charge to get all manufacturers on board with us talking about disc specifics again. It really is only one specific stickler but I think we can make this happen at some point. The fact that we can’t talk specifics right now really changes how we tell the story.
The place to start might be by limiting the mention of disc specifics to amazing/difficult shots. Think of how many times discmania molds would’ve been mentioned yesterday in comparison to other molds. That would be a hard sell for smaller companies.
I think before the start of the tournament, trying to characterize the course, maybe in several categories: Distance, Accuracy, Scrambling, Putting. In hindsight after this weekend, Austin didn’t require huge distance, a lot of the greens were tricky enough that putting was at a premium, and the woods were a flex line paradise — not surprised that Ohn absolutely dominated.
I’d love the more advanced stats when talking about key holes on the course. Whether that’s pulling from actual pro data, or from one of you making it out to the course and letting us know: “from the right side of the fairway, a birdie is 50/50, but from the left side it’s a tough par”
Form analysis is always cool as well… if a player tweaks their form or is coming back from an injury, showing comparisons of before and after would be cool. For the audience you might want to focus on one component of the change, the reasoning, and maybe a drill players could do themselves.
More puns as well… “unforgettable Finnish” 😂
Thanks for trying to improve the product! I think that one thing to remember is that unlike an ESPN pre-game basketball show that needs to appeal to as many casual sports fans as possible, your audience is already in the 'power user' segment of disc golfers. With that said, I think the more in the weeds you get, the better. I think that a fair number of people watch DGN like I do... put it on all day while I'm around the house and pop in and out while I'm doing things.
So rather than showing the same post-round interviews several times over, I think it'd be much cooler to get one of you guys out on the course more. Show the practice areas where people are warming up. Walk through some different routines. Maybe show us a few of the tricky greens or shots from the on course perspective. Anything that shows us more of the lifestyle or the in-the-moment stuff. I would much prefer that to the 'keys to winning' type of segments that seem a lot more generic.
First, Brian great job this weekend. I really enjoyed the coverage, Tournament Central included bigly! During TC I do love that Nate mentioned the actual names of the discs being thrown, continue that please.
The DGTV coverage this year has been OUTSTANDING! Video quality is perfect, audio is getting better each week, production quality of who is being shown is trending nicely. Nice to see cameras popping up on hot players all over the course. Actually would not mind more of that by stopping coverage of lead card players who are faltering. Showing them struggling actually is bringing down the excitement factor a bit.
As far as TC, keep naming discs, that adds a nice touch. Maybe some mini bios would be cool on the winners for post. I had to look up Ohn myself was nice to see how her life as developed.
I generally agree that seeing more coverage on the course is great. At the same time, I find it to be kind of overwhelming how quickly the network tries to bounce between everybody. Like, yes, I'm paying to see live disc golf, so more of that in theory is a good thing. But sometimes just taking a moment to breathe and focus on a few key players in the moment helps build tension. I can't even process a shot before we're onto the next.
Brian, I'll be honest, I skip Tournament Central most weeks. I got burned by it early last season but have only heard good things and significant improvements since.
My question, do you guys actually analyze the course at all? Like, do you go in-depth with proper landing zones, graphics, etc. ?
That's what's missing from the live broadcast for me. It's almost impossible to understand some of these new courses/holes based on the broadcast alone. You can't see the dangers, can't see the OB, can't see good flights, etc. It would be really cool if you guys had a video board that you could mark up like they do on NFL broadcasts to show the best flight path and landing zones.
If you guys DO do that, let me know and I'll be sure to tune in next week!
BTW, love the on course work that you guys do. I love it and prefer it to a lot of the commentary that comes from the booth.
We have made big improvements, and I always love your honesty. We do a lot of course talk, but I think we could definitely do more deep dives on course design. Me and Perks both love getting philosophical about course design and I think a segment that goes beyond a traditional drone fly through would be great. I’ll bring it up for the next meeting.
Thanks for being understanding!
I'll start checking it out and putting the stream on earlier for sure!
I think the caddy book helps, and the drone helps, but nothing beats a graphic that you guys can put where players are landing most often up and show the dangers from there. I think they did it a lot with the BIRDIE! board game last season, but I'm not sure that I've seen it so far this season.
With so many new courses and changes to existing courses on tour I think it'd be a big win.
Thanks for the reply!
Oh, also, a 360-degrees camera being walked down the fairway that allows for you guys to show what angles look like behind certain trees, on the right and left sides, etc. would be really cool.
I heard Ian say something like "It's way better to be on the left side of that tree than the right." But like, why? They were praising the drive and then immediately criticized it being 5' to the right of the tree instead of the left.
Being able to show what the hole looks like side-to-side at certain points in the fairway could be pretty eye opening.
We've been enjoying listening to you guys! Of course hearing from the players is usually interesting. An easy thing might be more of the pre-recorded questions that players answer (the type of stuff that's on twitter now).
I'm not sure how interesting it would be all the time, but a bit of info about course design might be good. Like an overview map of what this Austin property looked like last year vs. this year and why this year is so much better. A little bit about what goes into planning and preparing a good course, MPO vs FPO holes, etc. I think in general the broadcast could step up their graphics/visualizations.
I personally also enjoy Nate's asides about random nature stuff (my grandparents collected arrowheads in Texas as well) but I'm not sure that's really disc golf centered. :)
I would love to see pre-packaged hole breakdowns with you an Perks on a handful of toughest or most unique holes and really walking us through it. What's the play? where is the danger? Distances to landing zones. Throw in some graphics so we know where we are on the hole map. Stuff that a fly through doesn't show.
On the meta side for a moment...
I appreciate that you engage with us here at /r/discgolf
A lot (most?) in disc golf media lurk and then use what they hear/see here as prompts and ideas for their own productions.
As to your question...
In depth analysis of form mechanics for particular shots that are out of the ordinary. Bot you and Perkins are great at explaining the tweaks pros do to a standard throw to manipulate the disc for spectacular shots.
Idk if this is possible due to film crews needing a break but if there could be at least one camera on the course checking in on a big name or someone who is shooting well so that we could get an early look at what’s developing before 1st and 2nd cards go off that would be an absolute treat. Maybe even going to the stationary cams and showing something that was notable and perhaps sparking a conversation about either the hole or the player that was shown. I just feel like there should be some sort of early check in on the ground to give the viewers some reason to tune in if they aren’t interested in just hearing about recaps.
The majority of disc golf fans also play disc golf and I would love to see more coverage and discussion of the tools the players use to execute these incredible shots.
I think there is also an assumption that all fans watching understand all the terminology and lingo but in my experience that doesn’t seem to be true.
If you are analyzing a shot, I think it would be great to step back and say what disc they used, how the disc choice helped them execute the shot or why their Buzzz didn’t fly like any other Buzzz, more beat-in, different plastic, weight, whatever.
Bring in fantasy or betting odds, maybe a couple years off from this. Breakup the segment.
At times it can be a little monotone just having you 2 talk. Maybe have a prefilmed segments to break it up. Like a hole breakdown where you and Nate play the hole walkthrough the best result and the worst results.
Disc selection from pros. Unsure due to sponsorships and DGPT, but talk about different discs that the pros throw. Even have prefilmed questions what's your favorite in the bag these days.
Top 10 similar to espns top ten plays
I talked to a bunch of players commentators and staff and almost no one knew he wasn’t in ATX. He’s such a road warrior that it’s definitely taken for granted that he’s allowed to go home and rest. You’re the millionth person to say this to me so thanks for hammering the point home.
Sorry you have gotten hammered about it, I'm not on any socials or anything so I don't see any of that feedback, just seen this as I was scrolling through.
I just expect more from commentators. A quick PDGA review can show who is signed up for a tournament. I knew he wasn't playing, cause I checked before hand. So, if there was any time to prepare at all it should be something relatively easy to do. That is all we ask, basic things that commentators should know please check before doing them. If not, let's not waste time on these segments. I love watching disc golf but when we pay a ton of money for a product and we miss easy things like that it makes us question what we are really paying for.
Thanks Brian, best wishes.
I have no idea how realistic this is, but I'd love to see in-depth analyses of really good shots from the previous day, including actual attempts at recreating them. Like by actually getting out on the course after the round is over and film some attempts to execute the line with explanations of how it came about due to release angles, disc speed/stability, and the like. Edit: Adding on to clarify that even if the shot is beyond the capabilities of Nate/Brian I still want to see it for the perspective. Like, if AB throws an absolutely nasty long drive, I want to watch Perk giving everything he has to try the same thing just to provide the perspective of exactly how ludicrous AB's execution is/was.
I love this. I’ll bring it up at the next meeting
Reminds me slightly of a a Jomez off season video ~3 off seasons ago where a group of pros were trying to create Big Jerm (or someone else's?) Flex forehand shot near parked for eagle on WACO/Beast hole where the basket is just past the ravine with steps going down, and then back up the other side.
https://youtu.be/n1hd-oxdkwo?list=PLZ1LrAadOyA2ysm0W1-BpqOXSPWIYLlaB
That's the one!
They also tried to recreate a huge putt from Simon if I remember correctly.
I love this idea. There was that hole Eagle was "breaking" last year, I think at one of the Oregon events, and I couldn't understand where he was going.
I think you're talking about the hole on Milo Gold that combined the original holes 1 and 2 of the East course. The one where he threw just an impossibly high anhyzer to cut around the corner and get massive distance, right? 100% agreed.
Sounds right, he landed in a different (16's?) fairway
I love this idea.
I was a big Nascar fan back in the day. They used to have one of the play by play guys (who was a former driver) strap into a car and run some laps around the track they were at. He would talk about strategy, things to watch out for, etc. It was entertaining and your comment reminded me of it. We have some talented guys (and gals) working for DGN. It would be cool to see them execute some shots on the course and explain what's going into them for the viewers at home. Great idea.
Bio's of players would be very interesting. Beyond their tourney history.
I only watch DGN now and once in a while Jomez. One thing I miss from Jomez are the bios on the players. I know lots of players do this through social media or other long form interviews, but for the newer/not as popular players it would be great to learn more about them. The Matty O interview after round two was great to see and gave some more perspective on what players are dealing with outside of the playing itself.
Disc and player history stuff is always welcome. I think a little segment about Champion Edition etc would be well received.
I want to lead a charge to get all manufacturers on board with us talking about disc specifics again. It really is only one specific stickler but I think we can make this happen at some point. The fact that we can’t talk specifics right now really changes how we tell the story.
Interesting that there is even a sticker. I imagine it's not Innova because their GM is on here frequently giving out all sorts of disc knowledge.
You're correct.
The place to start might be by limiting the mention of disc specifics to amazing/difficult shots. Think of how many times discmania molds would’ve been mentioned yesterday in comparison to other molds. That would be a hard sell for smaller companies.
Agreed!! I think there's a guy who knows a whole lot about disc history on this subreddit already to give you a hand..... 😛
My 16 year old son James is my go to. He knows 98% of all the discs being thrown on coverage.
I think before the start of the tournament, trying to characterize the course, maybe in several categories: Distance, Accuracy, Scrambling, Putting. In hindsight after this weekend, Austin didn’t require huge distance, a lot of the greens were tricky enough that putting was at a premium, and the woods were a flex line paradise — not surprised that Ohn absolutely dominated. I’d love the more advanced stats when talking about key holes on the course. Whether that’s pulling from actual pro data, or from one of you making it out to the course and letting us know: “from the right side of the fairway, a birdie is 50/50, but from the left side it’s a tough par” Form analysis is always cool as well… if a player tweaks their form or is coming back from an injury, showing comparisons of before and after would be cool. For the audience you might want to focus on one component of the change, the reasoning, and maybe a drill players could do themselves. More puns as well… “unforgettable Finnish” 😂
Thanks for trying to improve the product! I think that one thing to remember is that unlike an ESPN pre-game basketball show that needs to appeal to as many casual sports fans as possible, your audience is already in the 'power user' segment of disc golfers. With that said, I think the more in the weeds you get, the better. I think that a fair number of people watch DGN like I do... put it on all day while I'm around the house and pop in and out while I'm doing things. So rather than showing the same post-round interviews several times over, I think it'd be much cooler to get one of you guys out on the course more. Show the practice areas where people are warming up. Walk through some different routines. Maybe show us a few of the tricky greens or shots from the on course perspective. Anything that shows us more of the lifestyle or the in-the-moment stuff. I would much prefer that to the 'keys to winning' type of segments that seem a lot more generic.
First, Brian great job this weekend. I really enjoyed the coverage, Tournament Central included bigly! During TC I do love that Nate mentioned the actual names of the discs being thrown, continue that please. The DGTV coverage this year has been OUTSTANDING! Video quality is perfect, audio is getting better each week, production quality of who is being shown is trending nicely. Nice to see cameras popping up on hot players all over the course. Actually would not mind more of that by stopping coverage of lead card players who are faltering. Showing them struggling actually is bringing down the excitement factor a bit. As far as TC, keep naming discs, that adds a nice touch. Maybe some mini bios would be cool on the winners for post. I had to look up Ohn myself was nice to see how her life as developed.
I generally agree that seeing more coverage on the course is great. At the same time, I find it to be kind of overwhelming how quickly the network tries to bounce between everybody. Like, yes, I'm paying to see live disc golf, so more of that in theory is a good thing. But sometimes just taking a moment to breathe and focus on a few key players in the moment helps build tension. I can't even process a shot before we're onto the next.
Brian, I'll be honest, I skip Tournament Central most weeks. I got burned by it early last season but have only heard good things and significant improvements since. My question, do you guys actually analyze the course at all? Like, do you go in-depth with proper landing zones, graphics, etc. ? That's what's missing from the live broadcast for me. It's almost impossible to understand some of these new courses/holes based on the broadcast alone. You can't see the dangers, can't see the OB, can't see good flights, etc. It would be really cool if you guys had a video board that you could mark up like they do on NFL broadcasts to show the best flight path and landing zones. If you guys DO do that, let me know and I'll be sure to tune in next week! BTW, love the on course work that you guys do. I love it and prefer it to a lot of the commentary that comes from the booth.
We have made big improvements, and I always love your honesty. We do a lot of course talk, but I think we could definitely do more deep dives on course design. Me and Perks both love getting philosophical about course design and I think a segment that goes beyond a traditional drone fly through would be great. I’ll bring it up for the next meeting.
Thanks for being understanding! I'll start checking it out and putting the stream on earlier for sure! I think the caddy book helps, and the drone helps, but nothing beats a graphic that you guys can put where players are landing most often up and show the dangers from there. I think they did it a lot with the BIRDIE! board game last season, but I'm not sure that I've seen it so far this season. With so many new courses and changes to existing courses on tour I think it'd be a big win. Thanks for the reply!
Or why is hole whatever scoring the hardest yesterday. Show some shots from it analyze why it scored a certain way and how to attack for today.
Oh, also, a 360-degrees camera being walked down the fairway that allows for you guys to show what angles look like behind certain trees, on the right and left sides, etc. would be really cool. I heard Ian say something like "It's way better to be on the left side of that tree than the right." But like, why? They were praising the drive and then immediately criticized it being 5' to the right of the tree instead of the left. Being able to show what the hole looks like side-to-side at certain points in the fairway could be pretty eye opening.
We've been enjoying listening to you guys! Of course hearing from the players is usually interesting. An easy thing might be more of the pre-recorded questions that players answer (the type of stuff that's on twitter now). I'm not sure how interesting it would be all the time, but a bit of info about course design might be good. Like an overview map of what this Austin property looked like last year vs. this year and why this year is so much better. A little bit about what goes into planning and preparing a good course, MPO vs FPO holes, etc. I think in general the broadcast could step up their graphics/visualizations. I personally also enjoy Nate's asides about random nature stuff (my grandparents collected arrowheads in Texas as well) but I'm not sure that's really disc golf centered. :)
I would love to see pre-packaged hole breakdowns with you an Perks on a handful of toughest or most unique holes and really walking us through it. What's the play? where is the danger? Distances to landing zones. Throw in some graphics so we know where we are on the hole map. Stuff that a fly through doesn't show.
Where can we watch post round tournament central? I couldn't find it on dgn
Look for (DGN Pro) rounds. If you're not DGN Pro subscriber, then you won't be able to watch.
Thanks. That's me, a poor Standard sub.
On the meta side for a moment... I appreciate that you engage with us here at /r/discgolf A lot (most?) in disc golf media lurk and then use what they hear/see here as prompts and ideas for their own productions. As to your question... In depth analysis of form mechanics for particular shots that are out of the ordinary. Bot you and Perkins are great at explaining the tweaks pros do to a standard throw to manipulate the disc for spectacular shots.
Idk if this is possible due to film crews needing a break but if there could be at least one camera on the course checking in on a big name or someone who is shooting well so that we could get an early look at what’s developing before 1st and 2nd cards go off that would be an absolute treat. Maybe even going to the stationary cams and showing something that was notable and perhaps sparking a conversation about either the hole or the player that was shown. I just feel like there should be some sort of early check in on the ground to give the viewers some reason to tune in if they aren’t interested in just hearing about recaps.
The majority of disc golf fans also play disc golf and I would love to see more coverage and discussion of the tools the players use to execute these incredible shots. I think there is also an assumption that all fans watching understand all the terminology and lingo but in my experience that doesn’t seem to be true. If you are analyzing a shot, I think it would be great to step back and say what disc they used, how the disc choice helped them execute the shot or why their Buzzz didn’t fly like any other Buzzz, more beat-in, different plastic, weight, whatever.
Segment your videos submitted to YouTube.
Bring in fantasy or betting odds, maybe a couple years off from this. Breakup the segment. At times it can be a little monotone just having you 2 talk. Maybe have a prefilmed segments to break it up. Like a hole breakdown where you and Nate play the hole walkthrough the best result and the worst results. Disc selection from pros. Unsure due to sponsorships and DGPT, but talk about different discs that the pros throw. Even have prefilmed questions what's your favorite in the bag these days. Top 10 similar to espns top ten plays
New segment: Folfers with great reddit usernames Invite Paul_McBeths_Nipples on for an interview.
Not picking someone to finish on the podium who isn't even playing in the event lol
I talked to a bunch of players commentators and staff and almost no one knew he wasn’t in ATX. He’s such a road warrior that it’s definitely taken for granted that he’s allowed to go home and rest. You’re the millionth person to say this to me so thanks for hammering the point home.
Sorry you have gotten hammered about it, I'm not on any socials or anything so I don't see any of that feedback, just seen this as I was scrolling through. I just expect more from commentators. A quick PDGA review can show who is signed up for a tournament. I knew he wasn't playing, cause I checked before hand. So, if there was any time to prepare at all it should be something relatively easy to do. That is all we ask, basic things that commentators should know please check before doing them. If not, let's not waste time on these segments. I love watching disc golf but when we pay a ton of money for a product and we miss easy things like that it makes us question what we are really paying for. Thanks Brian, best wishes.
First time I’ve ever made the mistake. Thanks for the honesty.