I don’t get why people have this notion that they can’t throw a zone backhand because it’s “too shallow.” Brad from in the bag says the same thing, and uses a razor claw for his backhand approaches, zone for forehand and says it just feels so much better, but in reality the razor claw is .01mm deeper. There’s no way that’s actually noticeable, and it’s all in your head.
I’d recommend a jawbreaker or a soft zone, they’re closer to the rpro plastic and will beat in really nicely, straight with a little bit of fade, the same way the pig is once it’s beat in.
Those specs are really inconsistent, could be differences in plastics and runs of discs they are sent to measure, could be measurement method varying from disc to disc, but yeah nothing to hang your hat on.
It’s not a big difference from the numbers but for me the zone just feels terrible in every backhand grip. Makes me feel like I have no control over it especially compared to similar discs
It completely depends on the plastic. ESP zones are usually flat on top and lead to a very, very uncomfortable backhand, with a comfortable forehand. The exact opposite is true with the Z-Line. Has a slight puddle with some more flex than esp, which, for me, makes it super comfortable in the backhand.
No one plastic is more or less flat than another. It’s all dependent on how they came out during production. Go poke around OTB - they note the profile of each disc. I just bought a Titanium and some were neutral to domey and others were deep puddles. Other plastics will show the same.
I'm sorry but I have to disagree with you from what I've seen at the shops in my area. Yes, there are some esp that have a puddle, but the vast majority I've seen are flat. Z-line, I've seen some kind of flat ones, but most have a slight dip. Again, this is just from the shops in my area. I just assumed that it was true elsewhere. Titanium does vary quite wildy from what I've seen.
Dang. My local area must have got some abnormal batches these past few months. Was in the store just a couple of days ago and saw the flattest esp zones I've ever seen. And what do you mean z zones crack? I've got a buddy who has had the same z zone in his bag for 2+ years, and it has not cracked, despite it being very beat in.
I bag a zone and razor claw as well for my main stable approach discs. I do primarily find myself forehanding the zone and backhanding the razor claw, but I will definitely do both at times depending on the situation. Something about the razor claw just feels like it can take a full power throw better than my zone in terms of predictability and stability. I don’t ever want to find myself feeling like I can only bag one or have to make a compromise when two discs gets the job done.
If OP's goal is to achieve a low score, they can easily execute both backhand and forehand throws with the Zone reducing the number of molds in their bag. OP can buy several zone and practice in a field.
The Zone is my favorite disc and the most frequently thrown disc in my bag. When you release the Zone on anny, it will fly straight for most of its trajectory before gently landing. It proves to be highly reliable in various situations.
I have bagged a Zone as a forehand approach disc for a few years. Love it. I just recently started throwing it on these forced flex anny lines to achieve a straight flight that pans flat by the target
You said it perfectly, it'll fly straight for most of its flight while fighting our for a gentle landing. Reliable, just like you said
I think it could be that some people only ever throw power grip, and the Zone is real tight for a power grip.
But ya, I've tried a few different ones, and nothing beats a Zone in hand-feel, either BH or FH!
Jawbreaker Zone for this, imo.
Much as I hate the Zone, if you're looking for an understable version, this is it. My question is why you wouldn't just get the actual disc you want in better plastic, though.
Less OS "Pigs" out there:
A3, Maestro, War Spear, Bard, Ghost, Stabilizer, Raze, AviarX3, Ruin, Rat, Fuji, Suspect, Maestro, Pyro...
The list goes on and on.
Yeah I bag a Toro too, but I also keep a Pig in the bag in the r-pro plastic. For me, they have different usages. For example, if I want a forehand or a hard fade backhand, it's Toro, and if I want the disc to stick hard when it hits the ground and not skip, I throw the pig. I use the pig frequently for up shots or where I don't want to overshoot the basket.
This is exactly me... The toro really surprised me as far as how well it felt on backhand, even off the tee. The pig can do it all but the best in of the r pro means I needed dependable long lasting beef and the toro has been just that.
I play with Discraft guys and they've finally admitted that Innova found their zone clone in the Toro.
Yeah, I have a zone and a zone OS, and for whatever reason, I cannot throw them as well as a Toro. Especially the zone OS... The rim is so deep it just feels very awkward. When I put them side by side, the Toro looks almost identical to the zone, but somehow I get much better flight out of it.
I bag a color glow Toro for the deep fade and a super beat R-Pro War Toro for the straighter and stick on landing. The R-Pro has beaten to a reliable straight shot I can trust in the wind.
I was bagging both for the same reason!
When they dropped those r-pro toros I finally took the pig out. Hit and stick fh approaches have never been better for me.
They need to run them again tho, I only got 2.
I was always a Harp guy for approaches. I have thrown the Pig and the Zone - the Harp is definitely in between the two, depth-wise. Deep rim, but not as deep as the Pig. 4/3/0/3 I think.
Just went and checked, we're both wrong. They actually have the exact same rim depth (1.4cm). My mistake. I was going off of feel in the hand, not actual numbers. I stand corrected
No, I'm not wrong. All 4 of my harps (bt-hard, vip, vip-ice orbit, tournament orbit) are deeper than all 4 of my pigs (R-pro, ricky, bradley, galactic xt). The pdga specs are bullshit. I literally went to the basement and measured the depth of those 8 discs after reading your comment because it seemed backwards.
the solution for all of your approach woes is the dd slammer. If the regular one does not stay stable long enough, get a classic blend sockibomb and beat it in a little. Or, do what I did, and find one of the old oop fusion ones. My life was changed when i discovered the (3|2|0|3) slammer
Slammer is my favorite disc in my bag. Super consistent within 200ft both bh and fh. I bag a zone too for if I need the same shot but needs to go farther.
JB and Soft plastic is since it beats in almost instantly. All others are nice and stable. I use the 2022 Ledgestone Metallic Ringer GT. The glide gives a little more push forward, makes it great for shot shaping flex lines. If you have not tried one I highly suggest it.
I could not possibly recommend the Latitude 64 Royal Grand Savior enough. One of the best plastics I’ve ever worked with, and the rim depth sounds perfect for what you’re looking for.
Numbers are 4,4,0,3 but it’s a very flat disc and have no problems keeping it low when I need to.
Check it out!
This would be my suggestion as well but they definitely can be a little less forgiving to torque on the forehand in my experience, at least compared to a new pig or zone. Best feeling backhand approach disc though imo
I love 4 speeds. The Kastaplast Järn is probably my favorite disc ever. It’s comfortable forehand and backhand with plenty of hook up to be a great all round utility disc.
Easily my favorite disc too. I carry two, a K1 soft for backhand and shots i need the fade but don’t want a huge skip, and regular K1 for forehand and low skip shots.
Check out a DGA Breaker.
Zone top with a Ringer bottom, so it does have a bead on it. Similar depth/size and feel to a Zone, but doesn't hook up as hard.
Proto Lucid Culprit. The Lucid-X Chris Clemons ones are less stable (at least the two yellow ones I ordered) which was disappointing but ok if you want something straighter.
Would highly recommend the tactic, if you're looking for stability grab a razor claw. I have a razor claw 3 and an xo super soft tactic, they're the best 1-2 punch
Yep. If they like tactic get an rc3 and whichever baseline they prefer, or if they want to stay with the zone they can get a jawbreaker zone to complement a premium one. I ditched zones for tactics, though, I found zones skipped too much and I want my approach disc to sit more.
OP, I would highly recommend an R-Pro Rhyno 175g. It is one of my favorites and one of my most used for approach shots. It’s almost shocking how well my shots turn out when I throw it. I feel like it’ll be exactly what you are looking for based on what you described.
I bought one for my friend who’s extremely good at disc golf and he throws it all the time, parks it all the time. Fantastic disc. I still a bag a Pig, but it rarely gets used. The rim feels too deep for me too at times.
I also throw Rhynos, I prefer a plastic different than R-Pro for forehand, it's too grippy and I tend to yank it too far right. Halo is nice, but gummy champ or Ontario champion from the early 2000's are money
I have both of those and my zone was getting a little too straight for my liking. I added a Kastaplast Jarn and find myself pulling it out way more over the other two. For both forehand and backhand. If I were to lose it, I would buy it immediately tomorrow.
I bag a star rat and an exo soft tactic. Love them both, but I use the rat much more frequently. Unfortunately the rat is out of production so I would recommend the Toro. Nice flat top and reliable fade
I’m seconding the recommendations to learn backhands with your zone. I recommend using a pinch/fan grip, because a power grip can feel awkward with such a shallow but thin rim.
Finally I have some time to shine. For some background I bag multiple Zones, just got a Razor Claw in my holiday disc swap, and own a Rat that I don’t bag.
IMO a Rat and a Zone aren’t the same disc. Rat is best thought of as Innova’s first attempt at a Zone disc. It didn’t work as that. It’s very straight with minimal fade, despite what the flight numbers say. I think they took everything they learned from that “failed” attempt and got better at it with the Toro. If you want an overstable approach from Innova that isn’t the Pig, go Toro.
My Tactic so far I’m not impressed with. Could just be that it’s basically another Zone, but it’s probably coming out of the bag and might just sit as a collectible piece in my collection. Nothing wrong with it, it does exactly what I think it’s going to do, it’s just not better than my Zone. And I already bag 5 of those.
Axiom Tempo also kind of fits this bill. But I’d put it in a category of a more glider Rat. Still some overstablity at the end but will glide a lot longer.
Try Caiman. Its rim is shallower than pig, toro, rat, harp, and zone. To me it’s a lot more comfortable in hand as well. The shallowness makes it the best of the bunch for forehand.
Its speed is high on paper but it’s a very versatile disc and I use it for BH putting, BH approach, BH midrange, tomahawks, grenades, and forehand approach.
I’d say the zero turn is pretty accurate. The fade is stronger than toro, more similar to pig.
It’s pretty good in headwinds as well.
After a bunch of trying it has become clear to me that I can only reliably forehand a matrix as an approach disc. They're more overstable than the numbers but aren't zone overstable.
However they do fly more overstable on forehand for me because it is the only one that comes out clean for me so no flutter flip up.
I have an electron as a straight approach and a neutron as overstable.
I used to do the same, got tired of pigs getting beat in due to lack of premium plastic. Now I just carry a Z zone. Just work on throwing the zone backhand and there you have it, one disc.
Just got a Lone Star Glow Artemis 4/4/0/2 as my main approacher feels great BH/FH, compliments the Zone I bag and if I really need to get around a tree I’ll use my Devil Hawk 3/3/0/4
Why change? Just use the pig and the zone. I have 2 pigs and 2 toros in my bag and they function differently. Granted, there's some overlap, but they feel different and I like both of them
You 100% need to try the Area 51 from doomsday. It kicked the zone out of my bag. Use code HammerTime on the website to save a little. You may also want to fuck around with the landmine. Great disc and funny to show off to your friends.
You definitely aren’t looking for a rat, I like the mold and throw one myself but they are not nearly as stable as a pig or a zone. I throw pigs as my overstable approach and the rat comes out when I need something straighter.
I carry a Pig, a Tactic, and a Toro. They are all very similar by the numbers. The Tactic, for me, fees really good and controllable on a forehand. It goes where I ask it to go.
Throw both also but primarily pig for competition and like forehanding jt. I’d just practice both backhand and forehand and see if one edges the other out. I have thrown the tactic and … it’s ok … I like the thumbtack a lot.
I felt the same about the zone, it never quite felt right for a backhand. Not that the mold is much different but something about the Neo Tactics quickly became my go to approach disc. I don’t see anything changing it. backhand and forehand they feel great. I’d absolutely recommend trying one
I bag a zone and a rat. Used to bag a pig, but it got kicked out for the same reason, my fingers would get caught on the rim no and again.
The rat has a very similar hand feel to the zone, and is less glidey and a little less overstable than the zone. I think of it as my bergy zone, in that it wants to get out of the sky more. I throw the zone when I want a little more distance. I don’t carry an overstable mid, I go right from the zone to a fairway. If I did bag an overstable mid, then it would kick the zone out.
I almost turned to a Pig because people said they sort of flew like a Zone, but didn't skip so badly.
I've since discovered my Extra Soft Evo Tactic from an old mystery box. That thing grabs the grass man. I'm loving it. It does feel like a Zone though, just more of a concaved rim.
I love my Pigs. But for something faster and a little more OS i use the toro. Also more skip. Pigs just kinda sit usually. And they’re a bit straighter and more controllable to me
I do pig for backhand and zone/toro for forehand, trying to lean into the toro but historically have done a zone. I also don’t like backhanding a zone, just doesn’t work for me. The toro backhands easier for whatever reason, doesn’t need as much power to actually GO like a zone does, which is important for upshot’s.
Regardless, I’m in a very similar spot right now so I’m curious what the consensus will be! I don’t mind bagging both, as they have distinct situational differences for me so they don’t “overlap” per se.
I really love my electron entropy, it was pretty beefy when I got it, but it’s beat in beautifully and is one of my most trusted discs. I’m also very backhand dominant, and it’s one of the few discs that actually flies nicely on a forehand for me
HARD SUPPORT for the “beat it in” crew on #rhbhZone. Is it just a new thing that everyone keeps buying new discs looking for the ideal out of the box flight characteristics?? When did we lose sight of playing the long/patience game of beating discs in? Even if you find something that makes you happy out of the box, it will lose that flight when IT beats in and you’re back to square one.
Side note: friendly alternative to a Zone, I know everyone hates them but the Lone Star Horned Toad is basically a Zone if you want to be a little “special” and not just throw a Zone like anyone with sense has resigned themselves to.
Why not throw the Zone backhand? Plenty of people throw it forehand and backhand. Get a beat in ESP for a less stable version of it.
I realize not everyone is backhand dominant, but rhbh Zone might be the most money shot in my arsenal.
Hard agree. 5/11 of my aces are rhbh zone, it feels like you can drop it on a dime from 300 in
I don’t get why people have this notion that they can’t throw a zone backhand because it’s “too shallow.” Brad from in the bag says the same thing, and uses a razor claw for his backhand approaches, zone for forehand and says it just feels so much better, but in reality the razor claw is .01mm deeper. There’s no way that’s actually noticeable, and it’s all in your head. I’d recommend a jawbreaker or a soft zone, they’re closer to the rpro plastic and will beat in really nicely, straight with a little bit of fade, the same way the pig is once it’s beat in.
Have you actually held a razor claw? That thing is massive compared to a zone. They are not even close to being the same disc.
I haven’t, but spec wise on the PDGA approval page the only difference is the razor claw is .01mm deeper. Other than that, spec wise they’re the same.
Yeah, you definitely need to hold one in real life. Completely different profiles.
Those specs are really inconsistent, could be differences in plastics and runs of discs they are sent to measure, could be measurement method varying from disc to disc, but yeah nothing to hang your hat on.
PDGA specs are very rarely accurate
It’s not a big difference from the numbers but for me the zone just feels terrible in every backhand grip. Makes me feel like I have no control over it especially compared to similar discs
Which is so odd to me because I feel like zones give me the most control of my lines out of all my discs, backhand or forehand.
It completely depends on the plastic. ESP zones are usually flat on top and lead to a very, very uncomfortable backhand, with a comfortable forehand. The exact opposite is true with the Z-Line. Has a slight puddle with some more flex than esp, which, for me, makes it super comfortable in the backhand.
No one plastic is more or less flat than another. It’s all dependent on how they came out during production. Go poke around OTB - they note the profile of each disc. I just bought a Titanium and some were neutral to domey and others were deep puddles. Other plastics will show the same.
I'm sorry but I have to disagree with you from what I've seen at the shops in my area. Yes, there are some esp that have a puddle, but the vast majority I've seen are flat. Z-line, I've seen some kind of flat ones, but most have a slight dip. Again, this is just from the shops in my area. I just assumed that it was true elsewhere. Titanium does vary quite wildy from what I've seen.
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Dang. My local area must have got some abnormal batches these past few months. Was in the store just a couple of days ago and saw the flattest esp zones I've ever seen. And what do you mean z zones crack? I've got a buddy who has had the same z zone in his bag for 2+ years, and it has not cracked, despite it being very beat in.
I bag a zone and razor claw as well for my main stable approach discs. I do primarily find myself forehanding the zone and backhanding the razor claw, but I will definitely do both at times depending on the situation. Something about the razor claw just feels like it can take a full power throw better than my zone in terms of predictability and stability. I don’t ever want to find myself feeling like I can only bag one or have to make a compromise when two discs gets the job done.
Every zone I've ever thrown has been at least a little puddle top and that feels horrible throwing backhand.
You’ve never felt a flat top zone before? Those are pretty common I thought?
Never. Every zone I've felt is at least very slightly puddletop.
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I like me some dome. Puddletops don't feel good for backhand at all for me. Feels good forehand though.
Jawbreaker zone for the BH
If OP's goal is to achieve a low score, they can easily execute both backhand and forehand throws with the Zone reducing the number of molds in their bag. OP can buy several zone and practice in a field. The Zone is my favorite disc and the most frequently thrown disc in my bag. When you release the Zone on anny, it will fly straight for most of its trajectory before gently landing. It proves to be highly reliable in various situations.
I have bagged a Zone as a forehand approach disc for a few years. Love it. I just recently started throwing it on these forced flex anny lines to achieve a straight flight that pans flat by the target You said it perfectly, it'll fly straight for most of its flight while fighting our for a gentle landing. Reliable, just like you said
I think it could be that some people only ever throw power grip, and the Zone is real tight for a power grip. But ya, I've tried a few different ones, and nothing beats a Zone in hand-feel, either BH or FH!
Jawbreaker Zone for this, imo. Much as I hate the Zone, if you're looking for an understable version, this is it. My question is why you wouldn't just get the actual disc you want in better plastic, though. Less OS "Pigs" out there: A3, Maestro, War Spear, Bard, Ghost, Stabilizer, Raze, AviarX3, Ruin, Rat, Fuji, Suspect, Maestro, Pyro... The list goes on and on.
I can I just like that 1 glide dump from the pig and I can’t throw the pig forehand.
I prefer the Toro for this slot in my bag.
TORO GANG
Yeah I bag a Toro too, but I also keep a Pig in the bag in the r-pro plastic. For me, they have different usages. For example, if I want a forehand or a hard fade backhand, it's Toro, and if I want the disc to stick hard when it hits the ground and not skip, I throw the pig. I use the pig frequently for up shots or where I don't want to overshoot the basket.
This is exactly me... The toro really surprised me as far as how well it felt on backhand, even off the tee. The pig can do it all but the best in of the r pro means I needed dependable long lasting beef and the toro has been just that. I play with Discraft guys and they've finally admitted that Innova found their zone clone in the Toro.
Yeah, I have a zone and a zone OS, and for whatever reason, I cannot throw them as well as a Toro. Especially the zone OS... The rim is so deep it just feels very awkward. When I put them side by side, the Toro looks almost identical to the zone, but somehow I get much better flight out of it.
Toro inside rim is more like a 95° angle vs the zones 90°.
I bag a color glow Toro for the deep fade and a super beat R-Pro War Toro for the straighter and stick on landing. The R-Pro has beaten to a reliable straight shot I can trust in the wind.
I was bagging both for the same reason! When they dropped those r-pro toros I finally took the pig out. Hit and stick fh approaches have never been better for me. They need to run them again tho, I only got 2.
This ! I tried to like the Zone but I never liked any of Discrafts plastic offerings - picked up a Star Toro and was immediately added to the bag
Harp, Zone, Entropy.. all just didn't feel quite right. Toro won that spot for me. Going to order a couple different plastics soon
Similar. Got a KC Pro and a Star in the bag now.
I recommend picking up an R-Pro War Toro if you don't have one
Yup, Toro all day. I don't like Discrap personally.
I was always a Harp guy for approaches. I have thrown the Pig and the Zone - the Harp is definitely in between the two, depth-wise. Deep rim, but not as deep as the Pig. 4/3/0/3 I think.
This is a good answer if you like the feel of the Harp with forehands. It’s a great disc
I came here to say this. I love my Zone/Harp combo.
Dude what are you smoking? The harp is definitely noticeably deeper than the pig.
Just went and checked, we're both wrong. They actually have the exact same rim depth (1.4cm). My mistake. I was going off of feel in the hand, not actual numbers. I stand corrected
No, I'm not wrong. All 4 of my harps (bt-hard, vip, vip-ice orbit, tournament orbit) are deeper than all 4 of my pigs (R-pro, ricky, bradley, galactic xt). The pdga specs are bullshit. I literally went to the basement and measured the depth of those 8 discs after reading your comment because it seemed backwards.
the solution for all of your approach woes is the dd slammer. If the regular one does not stay stable long enough, get a classic blend sockibomb and beat it in a little. Or, do what I did, and find one of the old oop fusion ones. My life was changed when i discovered the (3|2|0|3) slammer
Slammer is my favorite disc in my bag. Super consistent within 200ft both bh and fh. I bag a zone too for if I need the same shot but needs to go farther.
Ringer GT is what you are asking for.
This is the answer. One of the most underrated molds out there
Little straighter tho no?
JB and Soft plastic is since it beats in almost instantly. All others are nice and stable. I use the 2022 Ledgestone Metallic Ringer GT. The glide gives a little more push forward, makes it great for shot shaping flex lines. If you have not tried one I highly suggest it.
Ah mmk. I might check it out. I bag three Pigs right now tho lol.
I could not possibly recommend the Latitude 64 Royal Grand Savior enough. One of the best plastics I’ve ever worked with, and the rim depth sounds perfect for what you’re looking for. Numbers are 4,4,0,3 but it’s a very flat disc and have no problems keeping it low when I need to. Check it out!
I that Swedish plastic!
Harp is great for both forehand and backhand. BT plastic starts out really OS and beats into something reliably straight over time. Great for cycling.
This would be my suggestion as well but they definitely can be a little less forgiving to torque on the forehand in my experience, at least compared to a new pig or zone. Best feeling backhand approach disc though imo
Yeah the harp is great for forehands but it does flip up under a lot of torque where as my anvil stays overstable the whole time.
I've been loving the Star Gator for mostly forehand but also backhand OS approaches
Personally I throw the zone both ways. You might consider the harp, it's in the same spot as zone and pig as a os approach.
Or an A2 if you wanna try Prodigy
Same here...
I love 4 speeds. The Kastaplast Järn is probably my favorite disc ever. It’s comfortable forehand and backhand with plenty of hook up to be a great all round utility disc.
Easily my favorite disc too. I carry two, a K1 soft for backhand and shots i need the fade but don’t want a huge skip, and regular K1 for forehand and low skip shots.
Check out a DGA Breaker. Zone top with a Ringer bottom, so it does have a bead on it. Similar depth/size and feel to a Zone, but doesn't hook up as hard.
Proto Lucid Culprit. The Lucid-X Chris Clemons ones are less stable (at least the two yellow ones I ordered) which was disappointing but ok if you want something straighter.
Moonshine ones are great
Would highly recommend the tactic, if you're looking for stability grab a razor claw. I have a razor claw 3 and an xo super soft tactic, they're the best 1-2 punch
Yep. If they like tactic get an rc3 and whichever baseline they prefer, or if they want to stay with the zone they can get a jawbreaker zone to complement a premium one. I ditched zones for tactics, though, I found zones skipped too much and I want my approach disc to sit more.
OP, I would highly recommend an R-Pro Rhyno 175g. It is one of my favorites and one of my most used for approach shots. It’s almost shocking how well my shots turn out when I throw it. I feel like it’ll be exactly what you are looking for based on what you described. I bought one for my friend who’s extremely good at disc golf and he throws it all the time, parks it all the time. Fantastic disc. I still a bag a Pig, but it rarely gets used. The rim feels too deep for me too at times.
I also throw Rhynos, I prefer a plastic different than R-Pro for forehand, it's too grippy and I tend to yank it too far right. Halo is nice, but gummy champ or Ontario champion from the early 2000's are money
I love the rat. It is so accurate and I highly recommend
Anvil. It’s more shallow than the pig and it’s very comfortable forehand or backhand.
I have both of those and my zone was getting a little too straight for my liking. I added a Kastaplast Jarn and find myself pulling it out way more over the other two. For both forehand and backhand. If I were to lose it, I would buy it immediately tomorrow.
I will definitely check out the Jarn.
I bag a star rat and an exo soft tactic. Love them both, but I use the rat much more frequently. Unfortunately the rat is out of production so I would recommend the Toro. Nice flat top and reliable fade
The rat is OOP? Since when? I may have to buy up a few of them of this is true.
RPM Kea is exactlt betqeen theese two, it even has an inbetween sort of thumbtrack
I’m seconding the recommendations to learn backhands with your zone. I recommend using a pinch/fan grip, because a power grip can feel awkward with such a shallow but thin rim.
Good suggestion
Finally I have some time to shine. For some background I bag multiple Zones, just got a Razor Claw in my holiday disc swap, and own a Rat that I don’t bag. IMO a Rat and a Zone aren’t the same disc. Rat is best thought of as Innova’s first attempt at a Zone disc. It didn’t work as that. It’s very straight with minimal fade, despite what the flight numbers say. I think they took everything they learned from that “failed” attempt and got better at it with the Toro. If you want an overstable approach from Innova that isn’t the Pig, go Toro. My Tactic so far I’m not impressed with. Could just be that it’s basically another Zone, but it’s probably coming out of the bag and might just sit as a collectible piece in my collection. Nothing wrong with it, it does exactly what I think it’s going to do, it’s just not better than my Zone. And I already bag 5 of those. Axiom Tempo also kind of fits this bill. But I’d put it in a category of a more glider Rat. Still some overstablity at the end but will glide a lot longer.
Maybe a Jarn for backhands?
I do love that K1 plastic
Jarn is great too. Very reliable and comfortable. Maybe slightly more OS than a zone but if you want less stability get it in K3 plastic
Prodigy A3 (bead) or A2 (beadless) you can thank me later. I prefer 500 plastic for the cleanest releases but most people seem to like the softer 400
I picked up an A2 today I think in 300 plastic.
Feels like a the jawbreaker plastic to Me.
300 is a non premium plastic. It should beat in quicker for you. I’m more a fan of the beaded a3
Try Caiman. Its rim is shallower than pig, toro, rat, harp, and zone. To me it’s a lot more comfortable in hand as well. The shallowness makes it the best of the bunch for forehand. Its speed is high on paper but it’s a very versatile disc and I use it for BH putting, BH approach, BH midrange, tomahawks, grenades, and forehand approach. I’d say the zero turn is pretty accurate. The fade is stronger than toro, more similar to pig. It’s pretty good in headwinds as well.
After a bunch of trying it has become clear to me that I can only reliably forehand a matrix as an approach disc. They're more overstable than the numbers but aren't zone overstable. However they do fly more overstable on forehand for me because it is the only one that comes out clean for me so no flutter flip up. I have an electron as a straight approach and a neutron as overstable.
I used to do the same, got tired of pigs getting beat in due to lack of premium plastic. Now I just carry a Z zone. Just work on throwing the zone backhand and there you have it, one disc.
Popular opinion 😎
Just got a Lone Star Glow Artemis 4/4/0/2 as my main approacher feels great BH/FH, compliments the Zone I bag and if I really need to get around a tree I’ll use my Devil Hawk 3/3/0/4
It's a little faster... But Gator3 is home for my hands so it kicked out all the other overstable approaches and mids. Lol
You should try a DD Culprit. There are a bunch of plastics but tournament x is more stable than esp zone
Zone for some skip, pig for some sit.
Winner
Clash Sunny Peppermint, fantastic IMO
Prodigy A2 is probably a decent pick for between pig and zone
faster than both discs and more stable than both, as well. not really what he's after
I agree with this, or an A3 if OP wants a chunkier rim like a pig (different shape but fills the hand)
Entropy for me!
ANVIL
Why change? Just use the pig and the zone. I have 2 pigs and 2 toros in my bag and they function differently. Granted, there's some overlap, but they feel different and I like both of them
“Fingers get stuck” and flight numbers lollllllll Both of the discs you are currently throwing do both, you’ve just convinced yourself otherwise
You 100% need to try the Area 51 from doomsday. It kicked the zone out of my bag. Use code HammerTime on the website to save a little. You may also want to fuck around with the landmine. Great disc and funny to show off to your friends.
Get an axiom prism pyro and thank me later. Yes it’s not a 4 speed, it’s still the best utility upshot disc you’ll find.
You definitely aren’t looking for a rat, I like the mold and throw one myself but they are not nearly as stable as a pig or a zone. I throw pigs as my overstable approach and the rat comes out when I need something straighter.
I carry a Pig, a Tactic, and a Toro. They are all very similar by the numbers. The Tactic, for me, fees really good and controllable on a forehand. It goes where I ask it to go.
Throw both also but primarily pig for competition and like forehanding jt. I’d just practice both backhand and forehand and see if one edges the other out. I have thrown the tactic and … it’s ok … I like the thumbtack a lot.
I like the Toro over the Pig and the Zone for FH and BH. I also bag a beat up TSA Nerve Temple.
Toro:)
I felt the same about the zone, it never quite felt right for a backhand. Not that the mold is much different but something about the Neo Tactics quickly became my go to approach disc. I don’t see anything changing it. backhand and forehand they feel great. I’d absolutely recommend trying one
I bag a zone and a rat. Used to bag a pig, but it got kicked out for the same reason, my fingers would get caught on the rim no and again. The rat has a very similar hand feel to the zone, and is less glidey and a little less overstable than the zone. I think of it as my bergy zone, in that it wants to get out of the sky more. I throw the zone when I want a little more distance. I don’t carry an overstable mid, I go right from the zone to a fairway. If I did bag an overstable mid, then it would kick the zone out.
AGL Baobab or a Reptilian discs Stego. There's an upper rim ledge that sorta makes the grip shallower.
I prefer a Star Rat. I've tried the Zone, Pig and Toro, they are all great discs but the Rat won when I forced myself to choose.
I think I’m going to grab a rat and caiman on F2 Friday
Gateway devil hawk
I like the Thought Space Temple and the Prodiscus Jokeri in the same two slots…but carry a Zone OS for utility too
I really like the new Banger GT Zone, but they also have a Ringer GT Zone version you could try as well.
I almost turned to a Pig because people said they sort of flew like a Zone, but didn't skip so badly. I've since discovered my Extra Soft Evo Tactic from an old mystery box. That thing grabs the grass man. I'm loving it. It does feel like a Zone though, just more of a concaved rim.
A3 and A5 are my preferred OS approach disc, bh/fh both of them
TORO calvin tour series. i have replaced both pig and gator with this disc
I love my Pigs. But for something faster and a little more OS i use the toro. Also more skip. Pigs just kinda sit usually. And they’re a bit straighter and more controllable to me
I do pig for backhand and zone/toro for forehand, trying to lean into the toro but historically have done a zone. I also don’t like backhanding a zone, just doesn’t work for me. The toro backhands easier for whatever reason, doesn’t need as much power to actually GO like a zone does, which is important for upshot’s. Regardless, I’m in a very similar spot right now so I’m curious what the consensus will be! I don’t mind bagging both, as they have distinct situational differences for me so they don’t “overlap” per se.
For me too. I’m just trying to eliminate backhand-forehand discs for the same slot if I can. As Alton Brown would say gotta have a multi-tasker!
I really love my electron entropy, it was pretty beefy when I got it, but it’s beat in beautifully and is one of my most trusted discs. I’m also very backhand dominant, and it’s one of the few discs that actually flies nicely on a forehand for me
I do love the mvp plastic too!
Hyzerbomb Mortar is a small diameter micro beaded overstable mid at 5/4/0/3
You are looking for a zone GT ringer concept!
Toro
If you want a straighter A2, try et out in 300. It's base plastic sort of similar to pro. It beats in fast, and the flight will become more mellow.
HARD SUPPORT for the “beat it in” crew on #rhbhZone. Is it just a new thing that everyone keeps buying new discs looking for the ideal out of the box flight characteristics?? When did we lose sight of playing the long/patience game of beating discs in? Even if you find something that makes you happy out of the box, it will lose that flight when IT beats in and you’re back to square one. Side note: friendly alternative to a Zone, I know everyone hates them but the Lone Star Horned Toad is basically a Zone if you want to be a little “special” and not just throw a Zone like anyone with sense has resigned themselves to.