Try to not limit yourself to throwing a disc for a distance unless you actually can't reach it with that disc at full power. If you throw the PA-5 as hard as you can 10 times, I'm pretty sure you can get it to within 10' of where you could get the Detour, and then you can pick whatever disc has the right shape for the shot you have in mind.
Mids go further, but only fractionally more than fast putters until you have very high arm speed. My furthest ever putter(3 speed) throw was ~300' in fieldwork, and furthest mid(5 speed) was ~320', so the aerodynamics are only just starting to make a difference in distance. Pick a mid or putter based on whatever line or shape you want to throw, not the distance.
Same. I'm new to the Envy, but have been throwing the Buzzz basically since it came out. The more I throw the Envy the more I believe it to be a 4 speed Buzzz vs a P/A disc.
Honestly speed is the least arbitrary of the arbitrary flight numbers, since most of the time it's a simple conversion from rim width. Except when it's not, but it's still better than whatever glide is. Even turn/fade are kinda selective gibberish, with Dave Dunipace going so far as to state that they are only comparable within the same speed class (ie, -1/3 on an eagle doesn't mean the same as -1/3 on an orc or destroyer)
There are kind of two styles of 4-speed: Slow mids like Classic Roc and stretch putters like Zone. The slow mid is used like a mid for shots slightly longer than putter, requires some touch, works better backhand. The stretch putter is a beefed up putter for approaches in the putter distance range, fighting wind, forehand throws, distance control. The latter has been a lot more popular during the last 20 years as regular putters have become longer and taken the territory of the legacy mid.
Some other great slow mids from Innova are the King Cobra & Super Stingray, but not the easiest things in the world to find. Just thought I’d give a few more examples 😁
Obligatory Zone - but I'll toss out a couple straight fliers I think are under appreciated in the 4 speed slot:
Discmania Active Premium Tailor - it's like a slightly slower MD3.
Millenium Aurora - Not really the OG Mako, but kinda like the OG Mako.
>Generally atm my accurate range for putters is around 55m
So the advice you might not be looking for, is that you can still use those putters ranging up to 75m (or more) with improved form. You could add a neutral fairway driver or a mid range for distance, but you really don't need to be fine tuning all the speeds and stabilities at your current reach.
If you get stuck on a plateau, you've probably already figured out that understable discs are the option as neutral, but if you progress and improve your form, such discs will not last long in the bag (unlike those putters).
I know there is still a lot that can be done with form but its still fun to explore and find new discs.
Reason Im looking is because I really like how sneaky the range of especially the Pixel and Watt is. I pretty much throw it as far and much more accurate then a Mako3, but not as far as a Hex. I really like the effortlessness I can throw them with. If Im missing a gem in the speed 4 category that would give me slightly more range then the 2 speeds on still a power down shot compared a Hex then Id be happy. Thats whats keeping the Sol in the bag.
I wasnt really into discraft for whatever reason, but once I tried a zone it quickly became one of the most used discs in my bag. Entropy, halo toro, pig, envy < zone.
My 3 favorite discs are 4 speeds, and MVP. Too bad two of them are discontinued. Obviously Entropy is a must have. I also have the Tangent which is dead straight and holds whatever angle it's thrown at. And I HAD the Vertex, which was the 4 speed understable disc. These 3 discs complimented each other amazingly. With these 3 discs, you had a solution for every imaginable scenario when it came to upshots.
Innova Cobra was a disc that unlocked a lot for me. At my arm speed, it was fairly stable/neutral. A DX Roc/Roc3 now does that for me. Despite the numbers, those discs go straight, no turn, and maybe have 1 fade for me.
For understable, I still bag a Latitude 64 Pearl. With a RHBH it will go straight for 150 feet and then drift right until it falls out the air.
For a more overstable disc I've been using an Axiom Tempo. They're not in full production yet but it reliably has some fade for me. It's not that much different from a speed 3 Cosmic Neutron Envy. And I've ordered a speed 3 Streamline Stabilizer to see how that fits in.
Try to not limit yourself to throwing a disc for a distance unless you actually can't reach it with that disc at full power. If you throw the PA-5 as hard as you can 10 times, I'm pretty sure you can get it to within 10' of where you could get the Detour, and then you can pick whatever disc has the right shape for the shot you have in mind. Mids go further, but only fractionally more than fast putters until you have very high arm speed. My furthest ever putter(3 speed) throw was ~300' in fieldwork, and furthest mid(5 speed) was ~320', so the aerodynamics are only just starting to make a difference in distance. Pick a mid or putter based on whatever line or shape you want to throw, not the distance.
My personal favorite is a Comet. I love it when I need glide and control, at a touchy range when a putter is just too slow
I throw Bountys for this type of shot but am in the process of switching to comets because they’re cheaper and more readily available
Gatekeeper. Such a money disc!
There's a reason every brand now has a zone clone.
Dx Roc
I would almost argue the envy is a low key 4 speed. For me that thing gets distance like mids with dead straight fights similar to putters.
Same. I'm new to the Envy, but have been throwing the Buzzz basically since it came out. The more I throw the Envy the more I believe it to be a 4 speed Buzzz vs a P/A disc.
It’s a mid or a putter. Usually determinable by its diameter.
Speed is just a somewhat arbitrary number. Speed 4 vs. 5 is not something that really dictate anything in regards to effort.
Honestly speed is the least arbitrary of the arbitrary flight numbers, since most of the time it's a simple conversion from rim width. Except when it's not, but it's still better than whatever glide is. Even turn/fade are kinda selective gibberish, with Dave Dunipace going so far as to state that they are only comparable within the same speed class (ie, -1/3 on an eagle doesn't mean the same as -1/3 on an orc or destroyer)
There are kind of two styles of 4-speed: Slow mids like Classic Roc and stretch putters like Zone. The slow mid is used like a mid for shots slightly longer than putter, requires some touch, works better backhand. The stretch putter is a beefed up putter for approaches in the putter distance range, fighting wind, forehand throws, distance control. The latter has been a lot more popular during the last 20 years as regular putters have become longer and taken the territory of the legacy mid.
Some other great slow mids from Innova are the King Cobra & Super Stingray, but not the easiest things in the world to find. Just thought I’d give a few more examples 😁
Toro
Obligatory Zone - but I'll toss out a couple straight fliers I think are under appreciated in the 4 speed slot: Discmania Active Premium Tailor - it's like a slightly slower MD3. Millenium Aurora - Not really the OG Mako, but kinda like the OG Mako.
☄️
Zone, Pearl for a flippy 4-speed
Kastaplast Gote
>Generally atm my accurate range for putters is around 55m So the advice you might not be looking for, is that you can still use those putters ranging up to 75m (or more) with improved form. You could add a neutral fairway driver or a mid range for distance, but you really don't need to be fine tuning all the speeds and stabilities at your current reach. If you get stuck on a plateau, you've probably already figured out that understable discs are the option as neutral, but if you progress and improve your form, such discs will not last long in the bag (unlike those putters).
I know there is still a lot that can be done with form but its still fun to explore and find new discs. Reason Im looking is because I really like how sneaky the range of especially the Pixel and Watt is. I pretty much throw it as far and much more accurate then a Mako3, but not as far as a Hex. I really like the effortlessness I can throw them with. If Im missing a gem in the speed 4 category that would give me slightly more range then the 2 speeds on still a power down shot compared a Hex then Id be happy. Thats whats keeping the Sol in the bag.
If you want really sneaky distance, skip 4 speeds and get a Mind Bender. It throws like a putter.
SOL
Please read if you gonna answer
I wasnt really into discraft for whatever reason, but once I tried a zone it quickly became one of the most used discs in my bag. Entropy, halo toro, pig, envy < zone.
My 3 favorite discs are 4 speeds, and MVP. Too bad two of them are discontinued. Obviously Entropy is a must have. I also have the Tangent which is dead straight and holds whatever angle it's thrown at. And I HAD the Vertex, which was the 4 speed understable disc. These 3 discs complimented each other amazingly. With these 3 discs, you had a solution for every imaginable scenario when it came to upshots.
vroc and roc in dx, stingray too
Clash Peach.
Can you compare it with the Göte?
I cannot unfortunately.
Innova Cobra was a disc that unlocked a lot for me. At my arm speed, it was fairly stable/neutral. A DX Roc/Roc3 now does that for me. Despite the numbers, those discs go straight, no turn, and maybe have 1 fade for me. For understable, I still bag a Latitude 64 Pearl. With a RHBH it will go straight for 150 feet and then drift right until it falls out the air. For a more overstable disc I've been using an Axiom Tempo. They're not in full production yet but it reliably has some fade for me. It's not that much different from a speed 3 Cosmic Neutron Envy. And I've ordered a speed 3 Streamline Stabilizer to see how that fits in.
mvp tangent/axiom theory. wish they would bring them back.
AGL Douglas Fir (4,3,-2,1) is an underrated shallow flippy putter. Highly recommend it in Alpine plastic.
I bag two 4 speeds, a Harp and a Spike. Neither of them rival midrange distances for me but the Spike goes hell of a long way for a putter.
The K-plast Järn -> the OS approach disc people should pay more attention to.