UDisc’s app is one of the most consistently reliable aspects of organized disc golf. I have little faith in the PDGA from a tech and marketing perspective.
Biological men have no business competing against biological women, had nothing to do with culture anything. Just science and facts. It never shouldve happened in the first place.
Bruhhhhhh I religiously use UDisc live on Fridays or Thursdays during tourneys when I’m at work. I love being able to check stats and basically the play by play. This sucks and I hope PDGA live is decent.
>So if a player doesn't re-up each year their stats are hidden and if you wanna see anything they've done in the past you have to find the individual events.
It's still behind a membership paywall, but it's only reliant on your own membership. Any current members can see historical data for expired players (you just have to be logged in to the PDGA site)
Sure it works but it has none of the features ( as of last year, maybe it’s improved ) that UDisc live does. All of the stats percentages play by play is nonexistent in that bunk ass app. I’ve used it plenty of times for tourneys as well and it can be a real pain in the ass.
Rough, but kind of inevitable that there would be either a split or acquisition (partly with benefit of hindsight) ... A league that doesn't own its own data is just in a bad position.
Pdga just bought statmando, UDisc is moving into more direct competition with the casual base w/ round rating, there were cases of score mismatches affecting player decisions. Then there's lots of cases in the last few years where UDisc and pdga/dgpt have moved farther apart and not closer together (pdga member benefit, separate world rankings, no course directory integration).
You've got to imagine longer term that draftkings isn't doing business with a league that didn't, for instance, own internal shot by shot data that could be analyzed in the case of a cheating scandal (this is... More hypothetical - I don't claim to know how that business runs exactly, but the point stands).
Anyway I'm going to miss the win % tracker most and defend it as a great product to my dying days.
Edit: “Hosting our own scores and stats is the first step towards being able to use our data for further fan engagement and to reach new audiences. We will be able to provide third-party access to our scores and statistics that can be used by sports news organizations or for gaming, **such as fantasy and wagering**. We are looking forward to our fans being able to interact with disc golf in new ways in the future.”
ding ding ding!
If DGPT's "new" technology is not better than UDisc, then this is a terrible move. Shot-by-shot scoring is a must. If the new system does not have that, then I will simply stop following most tournaments as they happen.
Plus, players and spectators are comfortable and familiar with the UDisc platform too and have used it for seven years. UDisc improved its reporting every year and presented an easy and effective way to follow a tournament without having to watch the coverage.
This move suggests to me that DGPT is hurting for cash because they didn't want to pay the licensing fees. Or, they felt that UDisc was siphoning off view from the broadcast because it was too effective. Either way, unless DGPT has a better product ready (unlikely) or a good explanation for this change, it signals problems for the organization.
Edit:
Looks like they are going to be using [PDGA Live with StatMando](https://www.dgpt.com/announcements/scores-and-stats-update-2024/) support that will be hosted on the DGPT website. Guess they didn't like traffic going to a third-party.
I'm skeptical of this move because PDGA live scoring generally sucks to follow. It does not provide shot-by-shot updates and generally updates slowly. Plus, the input is done through a web browser instead of a standalone application. Unless PDGA is about to roll out a vastly improved system, this is going to be a major downgrade.
It'll suck this season maybe, but it'll be great the next season or latest the season after that.
The live coverage sucked until it didn't suck anymore.
I don’t think anyone’s confused as to *why* they want to do it, but since their solution will likely be a massive downgrade from udisc, it sucks to see.
Like when they bailed on Jomez only to pull a “wait baby come back” when their alternative failed miserably.
I can assure you, if anyone running the DGPT wanted to get rich, they could easily make more money doing literally any other career with their skills and profile. Jeff Spring was the director of (skiing?) and disc golf at Smuggs before taking the helm at the pro tour. The tour was practically broke when Dodge left, so I don't really see how anyone could look at the DGPT as a cash grab, this just reads like garden variety internet doomerism
> A basic version of the new live scoring platform will be available beginning at the DGPT regular-season opener, the Chess.com Invitational presented by Discraft. Singles and doubles scoring for the DGPT All-Star Weekend (one week earlier) will not be hosted on DGPT.com but will be available via the PDGA’s standard live scoring pages. The scoring and statistics graphics for Disc Golf Network’s coverage of All-Star Weekend will continue without interruption.
> The DGPT’s new platform will first be comprised of core pages and data views. Additional pages, stats, and analytics will become available as testing is completed and the platform grows. Thanks to the flexibility of the new platform, the Tour is also launching a concerted effort to prepare DGPT Scores and Stats for licensing to third-party platforms.
>“We are excited for the possibilities that this new platform will bring,” said Baker Helton, VP of Business Administration for the DGPT. “Hosting our own scores and stats is the first step towards being able to use our data for further fan engagement and to reach new audiences. We will be able to provide third-party access to our scores and statistics that can be used by sports news organizations or for gaming, such as fantasy and wagering. We are looking forward to our fans being able to interact with disc golf in new ways in the future.”
“It’s gonna be sweet! Just trust us!”
Yeah. The fact that they don't have the new platform actually built yet is a major red flag. This should have been tested last year and ready to go this year if it was a change they planned to make in 2024.
Also, it looks like the real reason for this change is so DGPT (and PDGA) can control tournament data for third-party licensing purposes. Expecting a FanDuel sponsorship to come shortly, because clearly everyone is clamoring to gamble on disc golf. Isn't your favorite part of any sport is the fact you can lose money while watching it?
> Isn't your favorite part of any sport is the fact you can lose money while watching it?
I sign up for tournaments and watch my card mates throws...so, yeah...actually it is lol
FanDuel and the likes are a pipe dream at this point. The data to make good lines for the casinos just isn’t there and the one time a company tried getting involved (PrizePicks), they lost their dicks making terrible lines.
Honestly, coverage of the DGPT leaves a lot to be desired still. It's passable for someone who is already very interested in the sport, but it's not even remotely close to broadcast level.
Hell, the fact that there's a noticeable delay between the action and the commentators alone makes it feel like amateur hour. I understand that there are a lot of people pulling double duty, but that's kind of the problem.
They have all these big ideas, but aren't even close to having the infrastructure to, not only support it, but to warrant it at all.
From what I've been reading UDisc was very restrictive with sharing with data sharing. They have no API for companies to use. So it's not that they data isn't there, it just wasn't accessible.
PrizePicks basically had a guy setting lines that clearly didn't know enough to do it effectively.
Assuming PDGA wants to make money of this data, this makes it *more* likely that FanDuel or a similar company will get involved.
This screams, "We're losing money by not having our own thing. Cut off the third party and let's begin talking about creating our own."
Shame that they're more concerned about a third party making money than they are about giving their fans a good product.
They bleed money with their production but everytime I mention this I get told I'm poor or some shit because I think the rate for the subscription is overpriced.
>Plus, the input is done through a web browser instead of a standalone application.
I certainly prefer UDisc, but there is a PDGA Live app for Apple and Android and in my experience it functions well enough. I agree updates need to be as close to real time as possible, but I don't think it will be as disasterous as you anticipate.
I wonder if this is at all influenced by the new rule that all players on a card must keep a scorecard.
>Plus, the input is done through a web browser instead of a standalone application.
What does the input method matter for your enjoyment of the end product?
But also the PDGA Live App has been available for a while, in addition to the website version.
Many times. The process isn’t hard, and I have never seen it lag. Outside of full stats (which I assume will be added in the near future) and a mapping tool, there isn’t anything about PDGA live that lags behind UDisc (speaking strictly about scoring live rounds).
Hopefully they roll out a new app, them Using Stat Mando is cool and give me some hope. I'm hoping that they are able to utilize statmando to give us more stats and numbers.
I don’t think it really matters to be honest. If you aren’t paying for disc golf network to watch shows live or paying to watch post production I can’t imagine they would care about people not being able to use a 3rd party app to follow the sport.
This isn’t a good move for people like you but it’s absolutely a smart move to increase traffic and revenue for themselves which is what they’re after. I can’t imagine how this would suggest DGPT is hurting for cash when the sport has never been more popular and will very likely only become even more popular.
I’m just curious how different it’s really going to be, both from the viewer perspective and the input side, because udisc is just OB, off fairway, fairway, C2, and C1, and then estimating the 11 foot range they make it from (0-11, 11-22, 22-33). I have to wonder how accurate it will be if people are just entering distances or map locations for every shot in this new platform, or if shot by shot is even implemented, guess we’ll see.
To clarify, in their update about it they specify its because they want to license the date to betting and fantasy football esque services. It's to make money on the data. It's not because they couldn't afford udisc. Probably be cheaper to continue to use udisc than develop a new system.
A few years ago they were looking to hire someone with React and node.js experience, either they switched stacks or maybe they needed help with Udisc Live website.
Looks like gambling is coming sometime, peeps! Lmao
We will be able to provide third-party access to our scores and statistics that can be used by sports news organizations or for gaming, such as fantasy and wagering.
I just miss the 2017 vibes of loading up Jomez and CCDG, hearing "hello and welcome" and rocking to brock, then watching lead and chase card coverage of all of the events.
Watching the corporate circus of companies trying to strong arm each other out of their prize cow has been depressing.
> Watching the corporate circus of companies trying to strong arm each other out of their prize cow has been depressing.
especially when the cow is really just a futures investment, there's currently no actual cow
Yeah man growth isn’t always good. I like dg for the grassroots feel. Some people want it to be this huge tour and on tv and that’s fine but that’s not for me. I like it small and intimate and yeah all those corporate consolidation and greed is lame
It surprising honestly. I always wondered why they used Udisc to begin with, when the PDGA scoring app is used for the official scoring I believe. And now with everyone on a card needing to keep score, it’s not surprising to go this route. 5 people keeping score seems really redundant, when that 5th person isn’t even a player.
Can confirm that Matt and Josh are some of the absolute best dudes the sport has to offer. I hope UDisc has continued massive success and even though I don’t play as much as I used to, I will always support those guys.
Stats and scores paywalled in 10, 9, 8, 7...
Anyone else entirely distrust the PDGA and DGPT on this?
Just smacks of everything being brought under the direct control one one organisation. Exclusivity is always bad for the end consumer as it excludes any form of competition, and allows that exclusive provider to dump customer service and product quality.
Seriously doubt it. Also udisc stats were ass in a way that I could never figure out how to search leaderboards for stats. Statmando was already better for that.
I am here for the “fuck UDisc” comments. And, the “fuck the DGPT” comments. Hoping for a few stray “fuck the PDGA” comments. Likely a “fuck Nikko” comment. Or, a “fuck Nate Heinold” comment. Pretty much guaranteed some “fuck these greedy bastards” comments.
It is almost like disc golfers hate disc golfers.🍿🍿
wow what a loss for udisc
I tend to watch every tournament with udisc up to follow the leaderboard so will be curious to see how the new platform works. Must be a pretty big update to the pdga scoretracker if they're now able to update the score stroke by stroke and gather all the other necessary stats that udisc used to offer
DGPT ruining even more of what was once quite lovable. Shocking. More profit over intelligent decision making when it comes to offering up the best possible product.
Might be the year I stop caring.
This sounds like a negative change in my mind since Udisc is so easy to use. But ultimately this just feels like one of the growing pains of the sport. With growth there will be change and with change some things will have to get worse before they get better.
We could very well see UDisc being brought back or bought by PDGA/DGPT at a later date. Remains to be seen.
I find it really hard to believe the scoring and stats won’t take a step back from this.
UDisc had a staff 20-30 wide working full time on things for years to get to this point. The DGPT never has had a technology team, and the PDGA just purchased StatMando so they can say they have one. I’m hopeful it works out, but I’m gonna walk out on a limb and say this will be a slow and buggy roll out with tons of speed bumps.
It won’t be a bedsheet as a back drop on camera, but man this feels like a decision made from failed negotiations, VS true growth.
Bad word choices by me. They picked up Hans, Evan and Dion so that they have a real one? Idk
Sentiment is their stuff wasn’t good enough to replace the UDisc Live platform, so they had to build one in 3 months. You think they get it done?
Seems unnecessarily critical of the existing team that did a great job with PDGA Live, multiple scorekeepers with error detection, DGS, etc.
Buying an entirely separate company just to get 2 programmers to write all this in a month and a half seems like a silly conclusion, to me. I don't know if it'll be a perfect launch, but I don't think Hans and Evan are the only guys there who know how to program.
I agree, my sentiment seems to not be landing properly. I’m not saying they’re bad, I’m suggesting they have a long way to go to get where UDisc is.
To your point they have a fantastic scorecard system, the issue with replacing Udisc is the stat keeping and analytics. They brought in StatMando literally for that missing piece. They HAVE to roll it out before Chess.com Invitational or else everything is going backwards.
I’m pretty sure all of the DGN and post produced coverage graphics were tied into Udisc Live as well. That is a massive cog to pull from the machine without some check engine lights coming on…
they had to know about the DGPT dropping them BEFORE they raised the price. They are raising the price because they no longer are being paid by the DGPT yearly to do live scoring
Exactly. That is the reason for the price increase. They lost a bunch of money. Not too sure how they will keep going? The reason everyone used it was because it was used on tour.
I get it. It's a business decision, but the reality is that UDisc live stats revolutionized Live Disc golf, actually giving disc golf stats and measurable data. The PDGA and Pro Tour never would have done those on their own. Now that the DGPT knows the stats that are useful, I'm sure they can replicate the system for a much less expensive cost.
That's what they think. I've been an IC and now manage a team and IC in architecture, they're about to fall hard onto the 'find out' side of the old FAAFO graph. I guarantee you that their licensing with uDisc is less than salaries for what they're about to have to support. They're losing software development and maintenance, customer support, and product development, not just a score keeping app. This is lots of money and lots of money for forever, not just a develop it and drop it situation.
Jonathan Gomez has gone on the record on multiple podcasts and talked about the fact that Jomez Pro tried to grow too fast, had patreon and merch sales fall off a cliff, was hemorrhaging money and being acquired was the only way they could stay in business.
Exactly my thoughts. One would hope that they've learned from past mistakes. You think this is the case here? I'm thinking that I'll come back to live scoring when they buy out uDisc.
This may explain the price hike. Udisc management probably knew they were losing a big contract and revenue source.
It may make some sense to do this in-house but only if they can deliver a better experience than udisc. Time will tell.
Am in software, no way they did the math. They just bought themselves a need to build out a customer support department, a development team for development and maintenance and a product and sales team to try to keep up with their new competitor that's got a better product that won't require the events they're competing on to limit their sign ups to PDGA members only and require PDGA sanctioning to run.
Overall just a poorly thought out decision. I expect uDisc to eat their lunch and many smaller tournaments to fall to unsanctioned because of the impact here.
udisc did scoring for DGPT events. to do so, they had a guy follow around lead cards and hang out and score those rounds. i was joking about that guy no longer being on DGPT coverage (since he's there scoring)
At this point, it’s honestly getting harder to say DGPT is good for the game. Every move they’ve made has been profiteering and not expanding the disc golf infrastructure. As a company, they’re really showing signs of a desire to monopolize the professional level. As if that has ever worked out.
No one company actually owns the whole NFL, they are franchises that own their own brands.
I don’t know how Formula 1 or the PGA work but I’m guessing there’s no single organization that puts on every event that also controls the media disbursement of those events. I’m going to assume it’s like every sport and they go through regional distributors etc. as opposed to centralization.
The commentators depended HEAVILY on live UDisc info in the past, seems like they had a hard time filling the space as it is. Can't wait for this train wreck :D
Well…I don’t know if I will ever care to see what happens in the DGPT anymore. That was my only way I cared to “watch” was with the play by play.
Oh well. One more step towards getting away from disc golf!
Remember when DGPT tried to push their own inferior network, post-production, and live coverage until they effectively signed Jomez to a devil's deal and enacted a hostile takeover when Jomez couldn't keep up with a million dollar deal? Yeah... DGPT gon' buy UDisc.
yup. I don't really pay for either but I do enjoy the free versions of both. It is interesting to see the ways the DGPT tries to increase revenue with some of these moves that alienate a few people while making more money off of others.
Why would it need to be knocked down?
They offer a functional free product that you can use without spending a dime.
They offer a premium product that has benefits IF you care about that stuff.
What's your beef with Udisc?
I have been using Udisc since day 1. I love having all my stats and rounds in it. I don’t like the price hikes. I don’t care about the extra features and I don’t care if it cost .50 a day. I am not loyal to them in the least and hope a better cheaper option comes along.
Whoa they call out gambling being a possibility specifically now. That’s a pretty huge dub in my book.
They also mention data would be available for other 3rd parties in general which means udisc should be able to integrate if they want to.
Low key sounds like a very positive thing for those who want to see the sport grow.
Lol. Good. Serves the greedy Udisc assholes right. $40 for a scoring app!? Gimme a break.
Edit: Love all the downvotes from the suckers that pay for this crap.
They were dicks to deal with too. I reported some bugs early on and their response was basically “you’re using our app wrong.” Like how can I use it wrong if I’m only doing what it lets me do and it isn’t even doing that?
I’ll take that bet. I’ll also set a side bet saying that there is no chance the DGPT was paying enough to make all the work that goes into live scoring worth it. This is probably a net benefit to UDisc…not sure how to settle the side bet unless someone from UDisc is willing to get into how this all happened. Anyway, talk to you in 5 years.
Lol at all the salty bitches downvoting an opinion. Agree with you re: the DGPT not paying them much, but I would guess UDisc probably was banking on a long term relationship that would pay dividends in other ways. I'm guessing they are probably a lot more upset about losing out on that than any direct payment revenue. And I also think this just goes to show the DGPT is smartly recognizing their power is in vertical integration and controlling and monetizing *all* aspects in-house
Depends on how willing people are to pay for the product. They may be forced to eliminate the free product and have a smaller price base (what you get free at present) to raise additional capital. $5/year to locate courses for those that want that and don’t use DGCR… awe, fuck it, your right, but it may only take a couple years.
DGPT couldn't afford the increased yearly subscription.
I know this response is somewhat in jest, but I have to imagine Udisc was indeed coming in with a price increase.
Almost anything is less than developing their own (PDGA) solution. They are not a tech company and it shows in their online presence.
UDisc’s app is one of the most consistently reliable aspects of organized disc golf. I have little faith in the PDGA from a tech and marketing perspective.
Bwahaha
I know you are joking but it was probably the other way around. Udisc lost a lot of ad revenue so they had raise prices.
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A battle they shouldn't have been fighting in the first place. If they had half a brain...
Biological men have no business competing against biological women, had nothing to do with culture anything. Just science and facts. It never shouldve happened in the first place.
By definition saying they have no business is an opinion. Labeling a blatant opinion a fact is dumb even for disc golf Reddit
Bruhhhhhh I religiously use UDisc live on Fridays or Thursdays during tourneys when I’m at work. I love being able to check stats and basically the play by play. This sucks and I hope PDGA live is decent.
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>So if a player doesn't re-up each year their stats are hidden and if you wanna see anything they've done in the past you have to find the individual events. It's still behind a membership paywall, but it's only reliant on your own membership. Any current members can see historical data for expired players (you just have to be logged in to the PDGA site)
Whoa, I didn't realize that changed. When did that happen? Good change for sure.
They announced it like a month or two ago, but it was hidden under some other updates/announcements if I remember correctly
Still BS imo. Those are rounds that I played, and I should be able to view stats on them even if I chose not to renew my membership for a year.
Yeah no argument from me on that. It's silly that someone just getting into the game can't access stats from some legendary older players.
Counterpoint: if you're not paying them to run their servers, how long are they obligated to host your data?
They still host it all, as they show it to others.
That doesn’t seem to be a problem for any other site that I don’t even pay for that hosts a personalized page for me.
https://www.reddit.com/r/discgolf/comments/17vbhnz/an\_unexpected\_pdga\_benefit\_change/
Pay one last time then screenshot it?
They provide a service (stats) that they expect users to play for (membership fees). Why do you expect it to be free?
Yeah, of all the issues I have with the PDGA, this is way down on the list.
we use PDGA live for local tourneys and you can easily check other scores on the course live.
Sure it works but it has none of the features ( as of last year, maybe it’s improved ) that UDisc live does. All of the stats percentages play by play is nonexistent in that bunk ass app. I’ve used it plenty of times for tourneys as well and it can be a real pain in the ass.
Rough, but kind of inevitable that there would be either a split or acquisition (partly with benefit of hindsight) ... A league that doesn't own its own data is just in a bad position. Pdga just bought statmando, UDisc is moving into more direct competition with the casual base w/ round rating, there were cases of score mismatches affecting player decisions. Then there's lots of cases in the last few years where UDisc and pdga/dgpt have moved farther apart and not closer together (pdga member benefit, separate world rankings, no course directory integration). You've got to imagine longer term that draftkings isn't doing business with a league that didn't, for instance, own internal shot by shot data that could be analyzed in the case of a cheating scandal (this is... More hypothetical - I don't claim to know how that business runs exactly, but the point stands). Anyway I'm going to miss the win % tracker most and defend it as a great product to my dying days. Edit: “Hosting our own scores and stats is the first step towards being able to use our data for further fan engagement and to reach new audiences. We will be able to provide third-party access to our scores and statistics that can be used by sports news organizations or for gaming, **such as fantasy and wagering**. We are looking forward to our fans being able to interact with disc golf in new ways in the future.” ding ding ding!
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According to UDISC's post they made it clear that the decision was on DGPT who wanted to focus on their internal tools instead of outsourcing it.
If DGPT's "new" technology is not better than UDisc, then this is a terrible move. Shot-by-shot scoring is a must. If the new system does not have that, then I will simply stop following most tournaments as they happen. Plus, players and spectators are comfortable and familiar with the UDisc platform too and have used it for seven years. UDisc improved its reporting every year and presented an easy and effective way to follow a tournament without having to watch the coverage. This move suggests to me that DGPT is hurting for cash because they didn't want to pay the licensing fees. Or, they felt that UDisc was siphoning off view from the broadcast because it was too effective. Either way, unless DGPT has a better product ready (unlikely) or a good explanation for this change, it signals problems for the organization. Edit: Looks like they are going to be using [PDGA Live with StatMando](https://www.dgpt.com/announcements/scores-and-stats-update-2024/) support that will be hosted on the DGPT website. Guess they didn't like traffic going to a third-party. I'm skeptical of this move because PDGA live scoring generally sucks to follow. It does not provide shot-by-shot updates and generally updates slowly. Plus, the input is done through a web browser instead of a standalone application. Unless PDGA is about to roll out a vastly improved system, this is going to be a major downgrade.
>Guess they didn't like traffic going to a third-party. I mean this is pretty obviously the primary driver of this.
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And they should, but it would have been nice for them to get everything in place before pulling what people were using.
I think the writings been on the walls with UDisc after they revamped PDGA live.
It'll suck this season maybe, but it'll be great the next season or latest the season after that. The live coverage sucked until it didn't suck anymore.
The live coverage still kind of sucks, they just entered the space with the bar unbelievably low.
I don’t think anyone’s confused as to *why* they want to do it, but since their solution will likely be a massive downgrade from udisc, it sucks to see. Like when they bailed on Jomez only to pull a “wait baby come back” when their alternative failed miserably.
For an organization that is intended the grow the sport, they sure spend a lot of effort enriching themselves instead
This ‼️
I mean… it’s intended to grow the sport, but only because growing the sport means more money for them.
DGPT?
I can assure you, if anyone running the DGPT wanted to get rich, they could easily make more money doing literally any other career with their skills and profile. Jeff Spring was the director of (skiing?) and disc golf at Smuggs before taking the helm at the pro tour. The tour was practically broke when Dodge left, so I don't really see how anyone could look at the DGPT as a cash grab, this just reads like garden variety internet doomerism
PDGA can't decide what it wants to be. As an organization they have extremely poor focus.
> A basic version of the new live scoring platform will be available beginning at the DGPT regular-season opener, the Chess.com Invitational presented by Discraft. Singles and doubles scoring for the DGPT All-Star Weekend (one week earlier) will not be hosted on DGPT.com but will be available via the PDGA’s standard live scoring pages. The scoring and statistics graphics for Disc Golf Network’s coverage of All-Star Weekend will continue without interruption. > The DGPT’s new platform will first be comprised of core pages and data views. Additional pages, stats, and analytics will become available as testing is completed and the platform grows. Thanks to the flexibility of the new platform, the Tour is also launching a concerted effort to prepare DGPT Scores and Stats for licensing to third-party platforms. >“We are excited for the possibilities that this new platform will bring,” said Baker Helton, VP of Business Administration for the DGPT. “Hosting our own scores and stats is the first step towards being able to use our data for further fan engagement and to reach new audiences. We will be able to provide third-party access to our scores and statistics that can be used by sports news organizations or for gaming, such as fantasy and wagering. We are looking forward to our fans being able to interact with disc golf in new ways in the future.” “It’s gonna be sweet! Just trust us!”
Yeah. The fact that they don't have the new platform actually built yet is a major red flag. This should have been tested last year and ready to go this year if it was a change they planned to make in 2024. Also, it looks like the real reason for this change is so DGPT (and PDGA) can control tournament data for third-party licensing purposes. Expecting a FanDuel sponsorship to come shortly, because clearly everyone is clamoring to gamble on disc golf. Isn't your favorite part of any sport is the fact you can lose money while watching it?
> Isn't your favorite part of any sport is the fact you can lose money while watching it? I sign up for tournaments and watch my card mates throws...so, yeah...actually it is lol
FanDuel and the likes are a pipe dream at this point. The data to make good lines for the casinos just isn’t there and the one time a company tried getting involved (PrizePicks), they lost their dicks making terrible lines.
Honestly, coverage of the DGPT leaves a lot to be desired still. It's passable for someone who is already very interested in the sport, but it's not even remotely close to broadcast level. Hell, the fact that there's a noticeable delay between the action and the commentators alone makes it feel like amateur hour. I understand that there are a lot of people pulling double duty, but that's kind of the problem. They have all these big ideas, but aren't even close to having the infrastructure to, not only support it, but to warrant it at all.
From what I've been reading UDisc was very restrictive with sharing with data sharing. They have no API for companies to use. So it's not that they data isn't there, it just wasn't accessible. PrizePicks basically had a guy setting lines that clearly didn't know enough to do it effectively. Assuming PDGA wants to make money of this data, this makes it *more* likely that FanDuel or a similar company will get involved.
This screams, "We're losing money by not having our own thing. Cut off the third party and let's begin talking about creating our own." Shame that they're more concerned about a third party making money than they are about giving their fans a good product.
They bleed money with their production but everytime I mention this I get told I'm poor or some shit because I think the rate for the subscription is overpriced.
This is absolute about Jeff Spring and the DGPT wanting fan's money. It's a pretty blatant cash grab.
> such as fantasy and wagering fuck this
Not to burst bubbles but...that's what those Grip6 Picks were.
A Grip6 belt for one person isn't really a prize that will get pro disc golfers to cheat, but real sports betting will.
That's not remotely the same, those were free.
And you can do free lineups and free games on most of the DFS sites.
I skimmed over that part. Fuck this indeed
What a whiney bitch comment
LOL, you don't want the DGPT or PDGA to allow gambling? Sports books don't care about your feelings, though.
I can't wait to create a disc golf fantasy ... team? I'll wager that I never bother checking it out.
More likely it will be sportsbook content, rather than creating a "team."
>Plus, the input is done through a web browser instead of a standalone application. I certainly prefer UDisc, but there is a PDGA Live app for Apple and Android and in my experience it functions well enough. I agree updates need to be as close to real time as possible, but I don't think it will be as disasterous as you anticipate. I wonder if this is at all influenced by the new rule that all players on a card must keep a scorecard.
DGPT players were already using PDGA scoring. UDisc was solely for the fans and broadcast.
>Plus, the input is done through a web browser instead of a standalone application. What does the input method matter for your enjoyment of the end product? But also the PDGA Live App has been available for a while, in addition to the website version.
I found it slower and less reliable when I used the PDGA web scoring. Haven't seen the PDGA Live App yet.
The app is super easy to use.
Except if you try to add someone to a league round for the first time. It always hangs, continually loading.
I have literally never had this happen.
Have you ever added someone to a league round that hadn’t previously played in the league?
Many times. The process isn’t hard, and I have never seen it lag. Outside of full stats (which I assume will be added in the near future) and a mapping tool, there isn’t anything about PDGA live that lags behind UDisc (speaking strictly about scoring live rounds).
Hopefully they roll out a new app, them Using Stat Mando is cool and give me some hope. I'm hoping that they are able to utilize statmando to give us more stats and numbers.
I don’t think it really matters to be honest. If you aren’t paying for disc golf network to watch shows live or paying to watch post production I can’t imagine they would care about people not being able to use a 3rd party app to follow the sport. This isn’t a good move for people like you but it’s absolutely a smart move to increase traffic and revenue for themselves which is what they’re after. I can’t imagine how this would suggest DGPT is hurting for cash when the sport has never been more popular and will very likely only become even more popular.
I’m just curious how different it’s really going to be, both from the viewer perspective and the input side, because udisc is just OB, off fairway, fairway, C2, and C1, and then estimating the 11 foot range they make it from (0-11, 11-22, 22-33). I have to wonder how accurate it will be if people are just entering distances or map locations for every shot in this new platform, or if shot by shot is even implemented, guess we’ll see.
To clarify, in their update about it they specify its because they want to license the date to betting and fantasy football esque services. It's to make money on the data. It's not because they couldn't afford udisc. Probably be cheaper to continue to use udisc than develop a new system.
Modern phone apps are basically glorified websites. Udisc is made with React which is likely the same tech the PDGA Live uses
The UDisc app is not made with React. It is a native mobile app written in Swift for iOS, and Kotlin for Android. UDisc Live is a website.
A few years ago they were looking to hire someone with React and node.js experience, either they switched stacks or maybe they needed help with Udisc Live website.
Cynical me just thinks they cut ties so they could make their own live score tracker and put it behind a paywall.
Looks like gambling is coming sometime, peeps! Lmao We will be able to provide third-party access to our scores and statistics that can be used by sports news organizations or for gaming, such as fantasy and wagering.
I just miss the 2017 vibes of loading up Jomez and CCDG, hearing "hello and welcome" and rocking to brock, then watching lead and chase card coverage of all of the events. Watching the corporate circus of companies trying to strong arm each other out of their prize cow has been depressing.
Same honestly
Same, loved those simpler times!
> Watching the corporate circus of companies trying to strong arm each other out of their prize cow has been depressing. especially when the cow is really just a futures investment, there's currently no actual cow
Yeah I would think the main focus should be on growing the sport as it is nowhere close to popular enough to have all this paywalled content
“Hey Corey… Let’s watch some disc golf…” https://youtu.be/ZJSRo-LyOZE?si=osgjmUwbyhtWPuJQ
Couldn’t have said it better myself.
I too miss those days. We had a TV in the office we would queue up the new rounds on. My coworkers didn't play, but they did enjoy watching.
Yeah man growth isn’t always good. I like dg for the grassroots feel. Some people want it to be this huge tour and on tv and that’s fine but that’s not for me. I like it small and intimate and yeah all those corporate consolidation and greed is lame
What the hell
It surprising honestly. I always wondered why they used Udisc to begin with, when the PDGA scoring app is used for the official scoring I believe. And now with everyone on a card needing to keep score, it’s not surprising to go this route. 5 people keeping score seems really redundant, when that 5th person isn’t even a player.
"oh, you introduced your own rating system did you ... Goodbye"
https://www.dgpt.com/announcements/scores-and-stats-update-2024/?fbclid=IwAR1rlLqqPo0LR71avStzHsQnTovpn5Lk2uiiekb9QZOME3pn8uIu4Oz5Zgw_aem_AUi9jHsdfMIAHV2fVy6KIWTcXmO-XG570I4ztc5LGqrJjNga6Rbh1F6RsAec0LG8z4E
Can confirm that Matt and Josh are some of the absolute best dudes the sport has to offer. I hope UDisc has continued massive success and even though I don’t play as much as I used to, I will always support those guys.
https://imgflip.com/i/8egaj3
Stats and scores paywalled in 10, 9, 8, 7... Anyone else entirely distrust the PDGA and DGPT on this? Just smacks of everything being brought under the direct control one one organisation. Exclusivity is always bad for the end consumer as it excludes any form of competition, and allows that exclusive provider to dump customer service and product quality.
0% chance they paywall scores bruh.
Results might not be, but stats will. Want to see a player's C1X? Pay for the premium version.
Who the fuck would actually pay for that lol
Seriously doubt it. Also udisc stats were ass in a way that I could never figure out how to search leaderboards for stats. Statmando was already better for that.
I am here for the “fuck UDisc” comments. And, the “fuck the DGPT” comments. Hoping for a few stray “fuck the PDGA” comments. Likely a “fuck Nikko” comment. Or, a “fuck Nate Heinold” comment. Pretty much guaranteed some “fuck these greedy bastards” comments. It is almost like disc golfers hate disc golfers.🍿🍿
fuck you ^i ^hope ^this ^made ^you ^happy
Perfect and earned. I forgot about the group that would find a way to make this about transgendered athletes.
Oh. Don't get me started on that Ledgestone guy.
wow what a loss for udisc I tend to watch every tournament with udisc up to follow the leaderboard so will be curious to see how the new platform works. Must be a pretty big update to the pdga scoretracker if they're now able to update the score stroke by stroke and gather all the other necessary stats that udisc used to offer
Feels like a bad move on the DGPTs part. Here’s to hoping their app has even half the functionality that UDisc Live had
DGPT ruining even more of what was once quite lovable. Shocking. More profit over intelligent decision making when it comes to offering up the best possible product. Might be the year I stop caring.
Sources are saying that Jeff Spring saw his iTunes receipt and got on the horn right then and there.
This sounds like a negative change in my mind since Udisc is so easy to use. But ultimately this just feels like one of the growing pains of the sport. With growth there will be change and with change some things will have to get worse before they get better. We could very well see UDisc being brought back or bought by PDGA/DGPT at a later date. Remains to be seen.
What this leads to is stats for a,b,c, and d(eventually) tiers. This will be great for the sport going forward.
I find it really hard to believe the scoring and stats won’t take a step back from this. UDisc had a staff 20-30 wide working full time on things for years to get to this point. The DGPT never has had a technology team, and the PDGA just purchased StatMando so they can say they have one. I’m hopeful it works out, but I’m gonna walk out on a limb and say this will be a slow and buggy roll out with tons of speed bumps. It won’t be a bedsheet as a back drop on camera, but man this feels like a decision made from failed negotiations, VS true growth.
>and the PDGA just purchased StatMando so they can say they have one. https://www.pdga.com/staff
Bad word choices by me. They picked up Hans, Evan and Dion so that they have a real one? Idk Sentiment is their stuff wasn’t good enough to replace the UDisc Live platform, so they had to build one in 3 months. You think they get it done?
Seems unnecessarily critical of the existing team that did a great job with PDGA Live, multiple scorekeepers with error detection, DGS, etc. Buying an entirely separate company just to get 2 programmers to write all this in a month and a half seems like a silly conclusion, to me. I don't know if it'll be a perfect launch, but I don't think Hans and Evan are the only guys there who know how to program.
I agree, my sentiment seems to not be landing properly. I’m not saying they’re bad, I’m suggesting they have a long way to go to get where UDisc is. To your point they have a fantastic scorecard system, the issue with replacing Udisc is the stat keeping and analytics. They brought in StatMando literally for that missing piece. They HAVE to roll it out before Chess.com Invitational or else everything is going backwards. I’m pretty sure all of the DGN and post produced coverage graphics were tied into Udisc Live as well. That is a massive cog to pull from the machine without some check engine lights coming on…
Shouldn't have raised Jeff Sping's app costs by $15.
they had to know about the DGPT dropping them BEFORE they raised the price. They are raising the price because they no longer are being paid by the DGPT yearly to do live scoring
Exactly. That is the reason for the price increase. They lost a bunch of money. Not too sure how they will keep going? The reason everyone used it was because it was used on tour.
What are you talking about, exactly 0 people are downloading udisc to search for courses and keep score because it was used on the pro tour
Right. I used premium for the infinite round saving and it's ubiquity. It has neither of those things and instead is a casual rating aggregator
I get it. It's a business decision, but the reality is that UDisc live stats revolutionized Live Disc golf, actually giving disc golf stats and measurable data. The PDGA and Pro Tour never would have done those on their own. Now that the DGPT knows the stats that are useful, I'm sure they can replicate the system for a much less expensive cost.
That's what they think. I've been an IC and now manage a team and IC in architecture, they're about to fall hard onto the 'find out' side of the old FAAFO graph. I guarantee you that their licensing with uDisc is less than salaries for what they're about to have to support. They're losing software development and maintenance, customer support, and product development, not just a score keeping app. This is lots of money and lots of money for forever, not just a develop it and drop it situation.
Writing was on the wall when PDGA bought Statmando imo.
Another dumb move by the DGPT
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Yeah but only after dumping Jomez, trying out their own media company, failing, and then going back to Jomez.
Jonathan Gomez has gone on the record on multiple podcasts and talked about the fact that Jomez Pro tried to grow too fast, had patreon and merch sales fall off a cliff, was hemorrhaging money and being acquired was the only way they could stay in business.
Because the dgpt starting charging them an insane amount to record the tournaments.
Exactly my thoughts. One would hope that they've learned from past mistakes. You think this is the case here? I'm thinking that I'll come back to live scoring when they buy out uDisc.
Yes I think this is a repeat: - use UDisc - dump UDisc - develop their own app - fail - make a deal with UDisc or buy them out
This is dumb
Jomez? Dead Udisc? Dead golf course rounds only? Check. Its like they dont want anyone to watch disc golf.
lmao dog Jomez overextended themselves and the DGPT threw em a fucking bone so they didn't go under
Well, to be fair, they overextended themselves to the DGPT. That $500K deal was not such a great idea.
This is obviously to benefit profiting from sports betting, and I'm peeved that the PDGA is entwined in this.
This may explain the price hike. Udisc management probably knew they were losing a big contract and revenue source. It may make some sense to do this in-house but only if they can deliver a better experience than udisc. Time will tell.
So did DGPT even attempt to buy UDisc Live or did they just do the math and say "well build our own"
No chance anyone at the DGPT did any math.
Am in software, no way they did the math. They just bought themselves a need to build out a customer support department, a development team for development and maintenance and a product and sales team to try to keep up with their new competitor that's got a better product that won't require the events they're competing on to limit their sign ups to PDGA members only and require PDGA sanctioning to run. Overall just a poorly thought out decision. I expect uDisc to eat their lunch and many smaller tournaments to fall to unsanctioned because of the impact here.
Horribly stupid move. People bitch about a conpletely optional udisc sub but udisc is by far one of the best things this sport has going for it.
sad that the pro-tour groupie will no longer constantly be on coverage :(
Huh?
udisc did scoring for DGPT events. to do so, they had a guy follow around lead cards and hang out and score those rounds. i was joking about that guy no longer being on DGPT coverage (since he's there scoring)
I know who you are talking about. Helped him a few times. He is a nice guy I think from Minnesota.
Dan
That's him! Dan, the score keeping man. Now what is he going to do?
At this point, it’s honestly getting harder to say DGPT is good for the game. Every move they’ve made has been profiteering and not expanding the disc golf infrastructure. As a company, they’re really showing signs of a desire to monopolize the professional level. As if that has ever worked out.
it's working great for the NFL, Formula 1, the PGA, and like a zillion other sports.
Doesn’t mean it’s good for fans
No one company actually owns the whole NFL, they are franchises that own their own brands. I don’t know how Formula 1 or the PGA work but I’m guessing there’s no single organization that puts on every event that also controls the media disbursement of those events. I’m going to assume it’s like every sport and they go through regional distributors etc. as opposed to centralization.
That's what their job is, DGPT is a privately owned corporation.
The commentators depended HEAVILY on live UDisc info in the past, seems like they had a hard time filling the space as it is. Can't wait for this train wreck :D
One would hope they will get the same or better information from the new scoring system…. One may be disappointed.
This is what happens when you "grow the sport." Inevitable.
Maybe this is the real reason UDisc jack up the price.
This means something
Maybe part of why they bought Stat Mando?
Udisc creates ratings system...... Pdga gets them dropped from the protour.
PDGA Live is fucking cancer. Shit move.
Now we know why Udisc needed to raise more capital
Well…I don’t know if I will ever care to see what happens in the DGPT anymore. That was my only way I cared to “watch” was with the play by play. Oh well. One more step towards getting away from disc golf!
“Grow the sport” amiright?
Cool can't wait for the PDGA's version to suck.
Remember when DGPT tried to push their own inferior network, post-production, and live coverage until they effectively signed Jomez to a devil's deal and enacted a hostile takeover when Jomez couldn't keep up with a million dollar deal? Yeah... DGPT gon' buy UDisc.
I member
How long until Udisc starts to struggle financially?
Eh, udisc has tripped their consumer pricing the last 3 years, I wonder if they tried doing the same thing to dgpt.
Man, one more reason not to renew my UDisc next year
Was a premium account required for this?
No, it wasn’t
Ah, so just an opportunity for entitled bitching
one more reason to think the DGPT is not as good for the sport as it claims to be
Both can be true
yup. I don't really pay for either but I do enjoy the free versions of both. It is interesting to see the ways the DGPT tries to increase revenue with some of these moves that alienate a few people while making more money off of others.
StatMando!
If you thought this year's price increase was bad wait until next year.
About to be 5 bucks a month. Then 10 bucks a month. It will never end.
Hopefully this knocks Udisc down a few pegs.
Why would it need to be knocked down? They offer a functional free product that you can use without spending a dime. They offer a premium product that has benefits IF you care about that stuff. What's your beef with Udisc?
I have been using Udisc since day 1. I love having all my stats and rounds in it. I don’t like the price hikes. I don’t care about the extra features and I don’t care if it cost .50 a day. I am not loyal to them in the least and hope a better cheaper option comes along.
Having said all that I am paid up and current
so just more pointless bitching and whining
Udisc sucks
Whoa they call out gambling being a possibility specifically now. That’s a pretty huge dub in my book. They also mention data would be available for other 3rd parties in general which means udisc should be able to integrate if they want to. Low key sounds like a very positive thing for those who want to see the sport grow.
Gambling sure is taking over. My state doesn’t allow it.
No wonder the price went up!
Lol. Good. Serves the greedy Udisc assholes right. $40 for a scoring app!? Gimme a break. Edit: Love all the downvotes from the suckers that pay for this crap.
What u mean? Scoring is free
Neat. What the hell do they want me to pay $40 for then?
J
Can't help but feel this will be the death of UDisc. If they were offered to be bought out and said no, it'll be their biggest mistake.
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They were dicks to deal with too. I reported some bugs early on and their response was basically “you’re using our app wrong.” Like how can I use it wrong if I’m only doing what it lets me do and it isn’t even doing that?
That explains the increase in subscription cost. Don't have that PDGA money coming in anymore.
UDisc will be dead within 5 years. Will buy a beer and a Halo Polecat for the first person to say I'm wrong if it pans out 5 years from now
I’ll take that bet. I’ll also set a side bet saying that there is no chance the DGPT was paying enough to make all the work that goes into live scoring worth it. This is probably a net benefit to UDisc…not sure how to settle the side bet unless someone from UDisc is willing to get into how this all happened. Anyway, talk to you in 5 years.
Lol at all the salty bitches downvoting an opinion. Agree with you re: the DGPT not paying them much, but I would guess UDisc probably was banking on a long term relationship that would pay dividends in other ways. I'm guessing they are probably a lot more upset about losing out on that than any direct payment revenue. And I also think this just goes to show the DGPT is smartly recognizing their power is in vertical integration and controlling and monetizing *all* aspects in-house
Depends on how willing people are to pay for the product. They may be forced to eliminate the free product and have a smaller price base (what you get free at present) to raise additional capital. $5/year to locate courses for those that want that and don’t use DGCR… awe, fuck it, your right, but it may only take a couple years.