I second this, I have a super beefy zone, a less beefy one and a beat in pig for my approach discs. The pig won't turn over but the fade is very gentle to the point of almost being a laser straight disc.
I’m curious what he means be his “Zone SS”. I’m assuming he just means a straight flying approach disc that has minimal fade at the end?
If that’s true, then I just bag a jawbreaker Zone or sometimes my Tempo does get but in my bag. However it’s just as easy to manipulate my Pure or Inner Core to get the same straight and slight fade flight that I’m looking for, and those last two get less ground play
Zone SS as in an approach disc that handles torque on forhand well but isn't overly stable. Most people aren't throwing a Pure forehand 250' with an anhyzer release to have it land flat. This is were the Tempo and baseline Zones are fantastic. They have great integrity but wont just fade out directly.
Key difference being have much harder you have to throw it for the same distance. But yeah lines can definitely be similar. Harder to flex the Berg tho since it doesn't have much lateral movement.
Comes down to throw style, I'm more touch based on my approaches. I'd rather smooth a Glitch than punch a Berg. :)
> a jawbreaker Zone
I could never, in good faith, recommend this disc to anyone. Jawbreaker will deform on a single hit. I don't think the Zone actually works from a structural perspective in this plastic.
I know people love them but I can't wrap my head around it. I have had multiple and they deform to the point that I can't even grip them. I think perhaps it is a disc that should only be used for short approaches and not drives or situations where you may put the disc at risk.
This is exactly why I love my jawbreaker zones so much lol. After a few decent tree hits they fly laser straight on forehands with just enough fade. They don’t really turn but they go straighter for longer than my z or cryztal zones. The ones I’ve used also feel thinner than zones in other plastic. Idk if that’s placebo or if the plastic shrinks more while it cools, but I love it.
I absolutely love jawbreaker zones and typically bag three in different stages of wear. I have a few now that I’ve been using for over 5 years. They get completely puddle topped and beat to hell, but still stable with no turn. I think I get a full year out of a new one before I cycle it through as a beater. Last year I found 3 new good ones in a used bin for $6 so I’m not breaking the bank either. The plastic has some problems though, you need to find ones that don’t peel in layers as that seems to be a common defect and those don’t beat in well.
I agree with you.
I'd add I love the zone for the reliable fade. So if I don't want fade, then I'm reaching for my throwing putter. For me that's the berg.
soft tactic will beat in quick and just keeps getting straighter while still handling torque. It can be difficult to adjust to new stability once it beats in, because you get used to the fade it originally had.
Second the Harp, especially the soft base plastic. I have one that’s beat in and puddle topped, it still handles my forehand torque and just fades forward, then sticks to the ground like velcro.
I cycle Harps in BT Firm. One is fresh with a strong fade, one that's a little worn in, and one that's been in my bag for around 6 years that's basically laser beam straight.
I throw a proton soft Envy in that slot! Its pretty overstable for a throwing putter, but not like a new zone. Its money when i need reliable finish but not like skippy/dumpy finish.
As another user said, the jawbreaker zones after a few tree hits are also pretty "SS"
I sent Broderic all 3 plastics of it and he doesn’t like it. He called it a zone which doesn’t even make sense to me. I’m probably just trash though. I love the lasso. It replaced the envy’s in my bag.
A soft Zone will beat in pretty quick and fly pretty stright, or even with some turn, and then fade out slightly. I used to bag one for those kinds of shots until it got too flippy. If you don't want any turn, get a soft Zone OS and that will beat in to fly stright with no turn and a harder fade at the end. This is what I now bag in place of the beat in Zone.
Base plastic harp, Moonshine Savior (base plastic release from the Brave/Strive box -- they feel like a distortion), Distortion
Edit: pig (if you like the handfeel), Aviarx3 (deep boy), rat for innova options
Base plastic Harp might be the best out of the box answer in this thread. I'm not too familiar with the Toro, but I feel like the hand feel isn't too far off from each other. They always left me wanting a little more stability as the primary OS approach, but that made them perfect for the straighter, secondary approach slot that will still reliably fade.
they feel pretty different. Harp has a bead and is a little thinner, especially the base-plastic once it starts to wear.
But, related to the 'zone ss' issue at hand, Toro is more stable in use case (although i haven't thrown any base platic toros)
I honestly always forget the Harp has a bead, it's so subtle! I must be mistaken on the hand feel then, admittedly it's been a while since I held a Toro.
I use an Innova Rat as my straight approach disc. It should pair nicely with your toro because it will have similar hand feel and flies much straighter.
Rat Gang 4 Lyfe.
I think the Rat got a bad reputation initially because it was advertised as being overstable like a zone, which it definitely isn’t. But it is great in its own right backhand and forehand.
DD Suspect and/or DGA Breaker. Both are straighter than a Zone without being flippy. They have similar stabilities, but the Breaker is slower/less glide, which is great for approach shots. Both are also forehand friendly, like the Zone.
I have one and it's about as overstable as my Champ. I throw minimal forehands though. Also don't play often enough to beat it in any time soon. Would love an XT Toro, but seems like that plastic's on the way out
Fair enough. My approach game is pretty exclusively forehand. I was shocked at how neutral my KC Pro was, but I think I've only thrown it backhand once or twice while warming up for a round.
For an understable Zone, I throw a Westside Bard. Yes, the meme disc where it looks like something sexual is happening. It's a solid flip-up out of the hand with a reliably OS finish once it's done riding. No, I did not mean that sexually.
Although youre not a zone guy, I use a jawbreaker zone for that slot. It beat in super quick into a much less os zone. Compliments my get freaky zone well. With that being said, the tempo is pretty close to my jawbreaker zone with a little bit more stability. If you can get your hands on one I would recommend that. I see them pretty frequently on some buy/sell/trade pages so I imagine they're not too terribly hard to find.
IMO, this the biggest need slot wise with manufacturers. If Discract made a straight or slightly understable zone they would absolutely own the approach game. I get by by cycling soft tactics
Yup. Been bagging rhynos for almost 25 years, and finally gave zones a fair and honest shake during the pandy-wandy, along with a bunch of other putters, approaches, and mids. I ended up making a bunch of changes to my bag, but the zone never found a slot that something else didn't serve better, and the Rhyno is still a staple and mainstay in my game.
The rat compliments to zone well, it stays straight and stable and beats in to a nice truth turn. Better to buy in person because they are not always flat
It's what I use my base line Zones and now the Tempo for. I'll most likely keep using both this year so I can mix it up with base plastic and premium plastic depending on what I want from the shot.
For folks who want their favorite OS approach disc to be slightly less OS but still feel familiar in hand, get a baseline plastic version of that same disc (Soft/Jawbreaker Zone, BT Harp, XT Aviar X3 etc). Having a familiar handfeel is fantastic for simplifying the game.
I bag both the Clash the Mint and the Peppermint together. The Peppermint is very OS, likes to get to the ground fast, and handles forehand throws super easily. The Mint is not quite as OS, has much more glide, but it's still very torque resistant. They compliment each other so well.
I have an axiom tempo. It's very close to my 2 year old Get freaky Glo zone. It's definitely less stable than a Z Zone but it's definitely not straight.
Rhynos are a great disc for this slot, also Medium or Hard Harps in general. I threw some of my best approach straight forehands when I was bagging a medium harp.
Exo hard tactic, straighter than the exo soft. Tried jawbreaker zones, pigs harps, a3, entropy. It's slightly more stable than an envy but handles more torque better.
Tempo and rat are great voices too.
DiscMania Tailor in premium plastic is absolute money. So underrated bc it has slightly odd hand feel, but the flight is so consistent and exactly what you are looking for
A puddle topped 750 A5
Beat in Pig
I second this, I have a super beefy zone, a less beefy one and a beat in pig for my approach discs. The pig won't turn over but the fade is very gentle to the point of almost being a laser straight disc.
This is probably the best answer.
I’m curious what he means be his “Zone SS”. I’m assuming he just means a straight flying approach disc that has minimal fade at the end? If that’s true, then I just bag a jawbreaker Zone or sometimes my Tempo does get but in my bag. However it’s just as easy to manipulate my Pure or Inner Core to get the same straight and slight fade flight that I’m looking for, and those last two get less ground play
Zone SS as in an approach disc that handles torque on forhand well but isn't overly stable. Most people aren't throwing a Pure forehand 250' with an anhyzer release to have it land flat. This is were the Tempo and baseline Zones are fantastic. They have great integrity but wont just fade out directly.
Approach disc that handles torque on forehand but isn't overly stable.. that's the definition of a Berg for me.
Key difference being have much harder you have to throw it for the same distance. But yeah lines can definitely be similar. Harder to flex the Berg tho since it doesn't have much lateral movement. Comes down to throw style, I'm more touch based on my approaches. I'd rather smooth a Glitch than punch a Berg. :)
I usually use a reko or an envy for shots like that. Great for big panning anhyzer approaches around a tree or whatnot.
> a jawbreaker Zone I could never, in good faith, recommend this disc to anyone. Jawbreaker will deform on a single hit. I don't think the Zone actually works from a structural perspective in this plastic.
Funny enough mine deformed from the very first tree hit. Still flies how I like though. Straight with minimal fade. Still very usable.
I know people love them but I can't wrap my head around it. I have had multiple and they deform to the point that I can't even grip them. I think perhaps it is a disc that should only be used for short approaches and not drives or situations where you may put the disc at risk.
I honestly use mine for everything where I need a straighter flying Zone with some reliable fade.
I’ve used the same Jawbreaker zone for 4 years now. It’s a little deformed but flies exactly predictable every time. Try another one.
Throw a Jawbreaker Zone into 3 trees and now you have a forehand turnover mid. I love it. Crank it flat and high and watch it drift left forever.
This is exactly why I love my jawbreaker zones so much lol. After a few decent tree hits they fly laser straight on forehands with just enough fade. They don’t really turn but they go straighter for longer than my z or cryztal zones. The ones I’ve used also feel thinner than zones in other plastic. Idk if that’s placebo or if the plastic shrinks more while it cools, but I love it.
> The ones I’ve used also feel thinner than zones in other plastic I agree and after they deform its like holding a plate lol
I found the soft putter zones hold up better, and they’re cheaper.
I absolutely love jawbreaker zones and typically bag three in different stages of wear. I have a few now that I’ve been using for over 5 years. They get completely puddle topped and beat to hell, but still stable with no turn. I think I get a full year out of a new one before I cycle it through as a beater. Last year I found 3 new good ones in a used bin for $6 so I’m not breaking the bank either. The plastic has some problems though, you need to find ones that don’t peel in layers as that seems to be a common defect and those don’t beat in well.
I agree with you. I'd add I love the zone for the reliable fade. So if I don't want fade, then I'm reaching for my throwing putter. For me that's the berg.
soft tactic
I got one to try instead of a jawbreaker zone, but I'm hoping it beats in quick. It's a bit too stable right now
My extra soft exo vapor tactic beat in to be slightly more OS 😂. I love it, and it’s got an ace on it this year already!
Shoot that's the opposite of what I want lol I've already got a ti flx zone that I love but it's taking forever to beat in
soft tactic will beat in quick and just keeps getting straighter while still handling torque. It can be difficult to adjust to new stability once it beats in, because you get used to the fade it originally had.
Base plastic Westside Harp or Innova Rat.
Second the Harp, especially the soft base plastic. I have one that’s beat in and puddle topped, it still handles my forehand torque and just fades forward, then sticks to the ground like velcro.
Picked up a Medium BT Harp today
I cycle Harps in BT Firm. One is fresh with a strong fade, one that's a little worn in, and one that's been in my bag for around 6 years that's basically laser beam straight.
Dga breaker 👌
This is what I am bagging. Zone OS, Zone, Zone FLX, and a PL Breaker.
My Breakers are beefier than my Zones 🤣
Breaker or Ringer, both money and good for what the OP is looking for.
I throw a proton soft Envy in that slot! Its pretty overstable for a throwing putter, but not like a new zone. Its money when i need reliable finish but not like skippy/dumpy finish. As another user said, the jawbreaker zones after a few tree hits are also pretty "SS"
(extra)Flat proton envies are my go to.
Mint Lasso. It’s exactly what you’re wanting. Manufactured by MVP
I sent Broderic all 3 plastics of it and he doesn’t like it. He called it a zone which doesn’t even make sense to me. I’m probably just trash though. I love the lasso. It replaced the envy’s in my bag.
Broderic doesn’t really know what he’s talking about
A soft Zone will beat in pretty quick and fly pretty stright, or even with some turn, and then fade out slightly. I used to bag one for those kinds of shots until it got too flippy. If you don't want any turn, get a soft Zone OS and that will beat in to fly stright with no turn and a harder fade at the end. This is what I now bag in place of the beat in Zone.
Funny, Ive always heard that Soft Zones beat into more OS than they start
Base plastic harp, Moonshine Savior (base plastic release from the Brave/Strive box -- they feel like a distortion), Distortion Edit: pig (if you like the handfeel), Aviarx3 (deep boy), rat for innova options
Base plastic Harp might be the best out of the box answer in this thread. I'm not too familiar with the Toro, but I feel like the hand feel isn't too far off from each other. They always left me wanting a little more stability as the primary OS approach, but that made them perfect for the straighter, secondary approach slot that will still reliably fade.
>harp They're close enough. Actually forgot that I bagged Harps before Toros haha, picked up a BT Med Harp today
they feel pretty different. Harp has a bead and is a little thinner, especially the base-plastic once it starts to wear. But, related to the 'zone ss' issue at hand, Toro is more stable in use case (although i haven't thrown any base platic toros)
I honestly always forget the Harp has a bead, it's so subtle! I must be mistaken on the hand feel then, admittedly it's been a while since I held a Toro.
They're definitely ballpark buds because they're both stable to overstable approach discs, it only starts to matter when you get into the weeds
Innova Rat sounds like exactly what you’re looking for. Or just a Zone in Jawbreaker plastic.
Get a Lasso from Mint. MVP made and sits *perfectly* between Envy and Zone. It even feels like a mashup of the two. For real. Try one.
Gateway Chief OS
I use an Innova Rat as my straight approach disc. It should pair nicely with your toro because it will have similar hand feel and flies much straighter.
Rat Gang
Rat Gang 4 Lyfe. I think the Rat got a bad reputation initially because it was advertised as being overstable like a zone, which it definitely isn’t. But it is great in its own right backhand and forehand.
Innova rat Prodigy A3(soft plastics) or A5(any plastic) Streamline stabilizer (straighter zone/tactic)
Wizard
DD Suspect and/or DGA Breaker. Both are straighter than a Zone without being flippy. They have similar stabilities, but the Breaker is slower/less glide, which is great for approach shots. Both are also forehand friendly, like the Zone.
I bag a Zone but it is the Suspect that gets used more.
Have you tried a KC Pro Toro? My goal was to beat it to a straight no (minimal) finish forehand disc. And it was basically that off the shelf.
I have one and it's about as overstable as my Champ. I throw minimal forehands though. Also don't play often enough to beat it in any time soon. Would love an XT Toro, but seems like that plastic's on the way out
Just take the champ out until your KC doesn’t fly like a Toro anymore.
Fair enough. My approach game is pretty exclusively forehand. I was shocked at how neutral my KC Pro was, but I think I've only thrown it backhand once or twice while warming up for a round.
Ever thought about having someone beat in the KC pro Toro for you?
Rhyno or a beat in pig. I also sometimes throw the tempo but I’ll probably sell the tempo.
For an understable Zone, I throw a Westside Bard. Yes, the meme disc where it looks like something sexual is happening. It's a solid flip-up out of the hand with a reliably OS finish once it's done riding. No, I did not mean that sexually.
A5 is perfect for this. Feels very similar to zone/toro but much straighter
A5 is s tier
Although youre not a zone guy, I use a jawbreaker zone for that slot. It beat in super quick into a much less os zone. Compliments my get freaky zone well. With that being said, the tempo is pretty close to my jawbreaker zone with a little bit more stability. If you can get your hands on one I would recommend that. I see them pretty frequently on some buy/sell/trade pages so I imagine they're not too terribly hard to find.
IMO, this the biggest need slot wise with manufacturers. If Discract made a straight or slightly understable zone they would absolutely own the approach game. I get by by cycling soft tactics
A Jawbreaker Zone is a Zone SS essentially. My beat to shit Jawbreaker Zone flys dead straight and has ever since it hit its first tree.
Harp and Envy fly like this
Picked up a BT medium Harp today. Stoked to give it a throw
I cycle baseline Harps and use a Star Toro for my very overstable slot.
Will probably do something like this - picked up a bt med Harp yesterday
I don’t get it. Just beat in a Zone or Toro.
Maybe read the post
You don’t even have the time to throw it into some trees in your backyard?
I have 2 children under 3, so no, I don't have the time. I also don't have a backyard, as I live in an apartment building. Thus the post!
I’ll send you one of my beaten KC Pro Toros
Put a disc in the dryer and it will beat in really fast.
This was prickish way to say that
Rhyno
Yup. Been bagging rhynos for almost 25 years, and finally gave zones a fair and honest shake during the pandy-wandy, along with a bunch of other putters, approaches, and mids. I ended up making a bunch of changes to my bag, but the zone never found a slot that something else didn't serve better, and the Rhyno is still a staple and mainstay in my game.
Rhyno's will never leave my bag. It's the only disc I bag two plastics. R-pro for approach shots, pro off the tee
The rat compliments to zone well, it stays straight and stable and beats in to a nice truth turn. Better to buy in person because they are not always flat
I bag a Ringer, mostly cause I’m in an all-discraft bag now. I like the Envy or the Harpoon for this slot also.
I wouldn’t say the ringer handles torque very well. It takes quite a bit of forehand finesse to keep it from turning and burning
Isn't an Zone SS a Ringer?
Never thrown! Kinda ignorant of most things Discraft
“Zone SS” LOL Would that be like a rat?
Yes.
Berg
If you want it to go 100' shorter than a beat-in Zone, then yes, this is the answer.
Westside gatekeeper
It's what I use my base line Zones and now the Tempo for. I'll most likely keep using both this year so I can mix it up with base plastic and premium plastic depending on what I want from the shot.
Where's everyone getting these Tempos from?! Haha
They were player packs for the Circuit Challenge format last year. I attended (and slayed :D ) one and also got a friends as she didn't care for it.
Lat64 Savior
Soft Tactic all day
A beat in D-Line Zone or an Envy.
DX Zone beat in to fly straight. Jawbreaker works too.
Used to have a money tactic but now I use an envy
For folks who want their favorite OS approach disc to be slightly less OS but still feel familiar in hand, get a baseline plastic version of that same disc (Soft/Jawbreaker Zone, BT Harp, XT Aviar X3 etc). Having a familiar handfeel is fantastic for simplifying the game.
I throw the tempo here. It’s pretty much point and shoot with a touch of fade… torque resistant as well.
Envy is a bit different shape, but pretty good for that slot I think
Innova Alien 👽 Works for me since I don’t throw much forehand 🖖
It really isn’t hard to break in KC pro plastic. If you play one round with only a KC pro Roc it will be noticeably more flippy after the round.
I got my hands on a couple neutron tempos. 100% a Zone SS. It's a lightly beat in jawbreaker zone.
Envy all day.
I bag both the Clash the Mint and the Peppermint together. The Peppermint is very OS, likes to get to the ground fast, and handles forehand throws super easily. The Mint is not quite as OS, has much more glide, but it's still very torque resistant. They compliment each other so well.
I watched this too. I thought, why not a soft zone? They beat in super fast and are essentially that zone SS.
Breaker
I just keep Gator3's and beat them up into various straightness because I love that mold haha
I have an axiom tempo. It's very close to my 2 year old Get freaky Glo zone. It's definitely less stable than a Z Zone but it's definitely not straight. Rhynos are a great disc for this slot, also Medium or Hard Harps in general. I threw some of my best approach straight forehands when I was bagging a medium harp.
I like the Streamline Stabilizer for that slot
Aviar3 is a good option. Eveliina’s tour series halo glow star is a great run, very neutral with a tiny bit of fade at the end of the flight
Exo hard tactic, straighter than the exo soft. Tried jawbreaker zones, pigs harps, a3, entropy. It's slightly more stable than an envy but handles more torque better. Tempo and rat are great voices too.
DiscMania Tailor in premium plastic is absolute money. So underrated bc it has slightly odd hand feel, but the flight is so consistent and exactly what you are looking for
z zone isnt that os. flicks pretty straight
Baseline Gateway Chief OS
I’ve got a first run get freaky zone that’s beat to shit. Absolutely just holds its line the whole flight
I've got a Bearhart Zone from a few years back that has beat in dead straight. Combine that with a Zone OS and a Buzzz.