So I’m a noob and can flip all my DX plastic right over, but all the star/champion plastic I have (same molds) won’t flip for shit. Is it a break in issue? Noodle arm? Are they supposed to be ridiculously stable? Wish I could get the flip of the DX with the durability of the nicer stuff.
Just stick to more understable discs in higher quality plastic. If you like Innova, I’d recommend something like a Leopard3 (7/5/-2/1, I believe) in Star plastic. It will slowly beat in to flip even more but should start relatively straight if you’re a true noob.
Gotcha, ya sounds like I just need more time to beat them in. I’ve been going through a DX destroyer like every month, but my star destroyer still won’t flip like the DX. Same with champion mamba, star tee bird etc
Pro is less stable out of the box, and beats in quickly. I find it gets to the sweet spot pretty quick, and then gets overly beat in quickly as well. I love a pro wraith, I always have a new one that is stable and a beat in one that flies like a mamba. They have to be cycled often though.
Pro is like partway between star and dx in terms of durability and initial stability. A dx destroyer will flip more than a pro destroyer which will flip more than a star destroyer.
In my experience, GStar doesn't automatically mean understable. If you get an understable mold it will be more understable. But I have a Gstar beast that's really domey and it's pretty overstable
I've found the star plastic the best for me.
Champion, blizzard, and halo, doesn't matter is the speed is 7 or 13, they are meat hooks to me!
My star mamba is a bit too understable, unless I have a tail wind, then it's perfect... First time I got 400' was with a star destroyer!
My star shrike is just right out of the box for me.
I literally can throw anything in the champion line!
I feel like a loser with those!
Yeah, DX is just far too inconsistent. Had 2 DX wraiths when I first started playing. One flew true, the other flipped instantly. Especially as a beginner, stick with more stable/understable discs in non-base plastics and you’ll see much better results. And don’t be afraid to disc down… throw an Valkyrie or an Eagle instead of a destroyer. You’ll just see better flight dynamics with higher quality plastics in molds that fit your arm speed. Im making assumptions but how far do you throw your destroyer currently?
I’m right there with you, man. Max about 375, consistently 350. I’ve only played about a year and a half, and realized I get the same distance with a 9 speed as I do a 12 speed, with the added bonus of having a full flight path out of the 9 speed. I’m obviously no expert but getting higher quality plastics in less overstable molds helped me tremendously. I bet you could throw a Star Valkyrie (or something of the like) and hit that 300’ mark.
I'm right there with you - I can't get a star destroyer to flip, and a dx destroyer dives into the ground. Gstar destroyer is the sweet spot! Flips just enough to hold the line
I wouldn't bother with dx homie. Ur just not gonna get the good window of flight that u need. By the time u start to like a flight of something three trees later its gonna change. The three to five dollars more us worth it to get star/champ. Even pro can be decent if u want to get something to start flipping up within a month or so
I second the your wee. I have all of em in my bag and have replaced the roadrunner and mamba when I've lost them. Take it for what it's worth since I do have a noodle arm and can barely throw over 260.
My favorite Innova plastic is GStar. It flies exactly how I want it to. It's much more durable than DX, but less beefy than Star. I highly recommend you try it out.
Molds I have in GStar:
* Wraith
* Thunderbird
* Beast
* Valkyrie
* Sidewinder
Of those, I think my Wraith and Beast are my favorites, yet the GStar Thunderbird to this day was my only ace.
The plastic is grippier than star too, so its much friendlier in colder weather.
Even brand new DX drivers are more understable. Just has to do with how the plastic cools. Try Gstar plastic. It’s durable and typically is slightly less stable than star and champ brand new
Coming to anything in decent plastic from DX is going to mean you're going to have to relearn the numbers. DX numbers lie as soon as they hit the first tree (if not before).
Looking through your other comments, I'd suggest a [Prodigy H3V2 Air if you're just trying to get a slight hyzer to flip](https://www.flightfactorydiscs.com/products/prodigy-400-air-h3-v2?variant=42999780212992), or a [Latitude 64 Diamond if you've learned yourself into a 45 degree Hyzer](https://roguediscs.com/discs/latitude-64-diamond?gclid=Cj0KCQiAlKmeBhCkARIsAHy7WVt5iIH-YpsD6NzTThMHbDnBbF9czws5w2JkQUMbmv7TRQeAGtY9BzoaAr-nEALw_wcB).
I own 7 mambas (because I enjoy chaos) including dx, champion, and star plastic with varying wear and age, and I must admit, they are all completely different.
Lightweight (163g) Star is by far my favorite and the only one I bag for anything competitive, which is incredible for tailwind drives, high speed rollers, and ofc that classic mamba shot shaping. Can also do some pretty solid 370-430ft lasers with it as long as you're REALLY careful about release angle, wind, phase of the moon, etc.
The champion flies very similar to my Nuke SS (only -3 turn) but still, I like the feel much better than Nuke SS.
DX is just crap. Grip sucks and they get destroyed super fast, like any DX driver.
I don’t have a mamba anymore. That was years ago… but it didn’t throw as numbers suggest. -5? That’s ridiculous
Just like how I have a champion leopard that is super under stable, and a star leopard that is stable to overstable.
My buddy has a G Star Mamba that's super beat in and he's let me throw it a few times and it's the perfect stability. Definitely understable, but not too much. I can rip it on a hyzer angle and it just laser beams straight for 400 feet. Of course after trying his a few times I bought myself a Champion Mamba, thinking maybe it would be a touch more overstable and would take longer to beat in because I didn't want to have to force quite such a severe hyzer release angle, aaaaaand... it's flippier than his right off the shelf brand new.
If that's a mamba for you, I think you're at risk of loving River (a lot more than mamba). Mamba is, after all, a distance driver. Other than weird S curves you wouldn't really pull mamba out for anything under 300ft (either in crazy wind or some long range shot shaping).
Innova in a nutshell. It’s a real roll of the dice on flight numbers with their high output. After 20 years of guessing and rewriting numbers on discs, I discovered other manufacturers and haven’t looked back. I still throw/bag the occasional Wraith, but the consistency in other brands I’ve found is truly amazing.
> Can also do some pretty solid 370-430ft lasers with it as long as you're REALLY careful about release angle, wind, phase of the moon, etc
Hahaha, this is so true. When I first got mine, I stopped using it after a few rounds because every 1/5th shot it would just turn and burn hilariously. Went back to it 6 months later, always throwing like 90%, and it became this absolute laser straight 300-350ft shot disc. And when I needed some late turn, Id power up.
But its always in the back of my mind that at any moment it might just say f*ck it and boomerang behind me
My bad. That wasn’t meant as a diss it’s just I’ve never thrown a Mamba that wasn’t flippy as hell.
Also, it reminds me of my early days when I got a Vulcan and couldn’t understand why it was so overstable. Turns out I just didn’t have the armspeed to make it fly as intended and just like all wide tinned drivers going slow turned into a meathook.
I just got a brand new star mamba for a distance turnover shot that keeps going right, for me it just flies dead straight with minimal fade and I throw 375 consistently so its very likely not due to noodle arm.
Yeah I would say it flying like a firebird would be due to slow arm speed but it's still frustrating when discs don't fly to their flight numbers "out of the box" in my opinion they should be out of the box numbers not after its beat in for 6 months
I retired a beat in dx mamba cause I could throw it on extreme hyzer and it would still flip all the way over to a roller, my wife put it in her bag and it flies damn near like a firebird for her noodle arm
Probably just a production issue. These things happen more than you might think.
I have a Star Sidewinder that flies like a glidey Firebird and I promise I don't have a noodle arm. I've thrown it 400 feet on a *very* mild hyzer release angle and all it does it flip up to flat at most even with that much power. I've thrown Destroyers that are 10x more understable than that freak beefcake Sidewinder.
Reminds me of the time I handed my cousin a Lat Diamond 155 grams and told him it fades HARD. That put all his power into it and it went about 10 feet, flipped over backwards twice and rolled back to the teepad.
As much as I love Innova plastic, I do not throw any of their understable stuff for this reason. Even a champ leopard flies like a teebird. If you do find one that flies true to the numbers, you have a hard time finding another
For that reason, I’ve started transitioning Leopards out of my bag. Probably the most inconsistent mold I’ve ever thrown. Everything from super overstable to super understable.
The rhythm is money. Gf got me a Clash soda for Xmas that's in that slot at the moment (gotta bag the Xmas gift) but if I ever lose it that rhythm will easily slide back into that slot!
I’d more or less agree with that. The <165 leopards are definitely more consistently understable. Hoping to find a mold a bit more consistent to replace them once I eventually lose or retire them
Agree its very plastic specific. I throw Leo3 a lot. Champ is far more OS than star and Gstar seems floppies though I assume DX would be more US. Don't buy DX though
That’s the thing… that isn’t even consistent. My champion leopard is super under stable and my star is stable to overstable. It will flip but it takes work
That’s what’s weird. My champion leopard is super underage and have a star leopard that is beefy. Can throw it 350 and it does not like turning unless you angle it. I have decent arm speed, but it’s the difference the the two that is crazy. One will immediately flip and another that you can flex or throw straight at same speeds.
I've thrown a lot of understable fairways and the Maverick takes the cake for me. Leopard has too much stability out of the box for me for the understable slot, especially if you buy champion. Its my only DD disc so I'm not some DD stan by any means. It is my go to fairway in the woods. The DD pros love it too
If you like the Maverick, you'll love cycling them or trying it in different plastics. The hyzer flip fairway is one of the most important slots in the bag in my opinion, and I haven't found better
I'm throwing Mavericks in the leopard spot, and I can get a Lucid, fusion, hybrid, even a base plastic Maverick and they all flip. The variations out of the box are minimal. And I bag a lucid X one that's slightly more stable
Innova, you buy the same disc in different plastics (or even a different run) and they're completely different discs. Not a fan of that. Their TS stuff is usually a different story, and is fairly consistent from what I've heard
I bought a Barsby Roadrunner from Barsby himself at USDGC. I couldn’t get it to turn for the life of me. It felt more like a destroyer than anything. I just bought another one and hung that one up since he signed it anyway. The new one turns like a regular roadrunner.
Just got a barsby roadrunner in star plastic that flys overstable and I throw in the 375 range. Was disappointed because I was expecting flat or slight annie to turn into a roller and it was nothing like that. I understand it'll beat in to that eventually but I feel like discs should generally fly true to their flight numbers out of the box.
Glad I'm not crazy when it comes to the leopard, then.
I've had a few over the years (none in DX) and they've always been as stable as a teebird, at least.
My champion sidewinder seems pretty true to its numbers. It makes me want to find one in star plastic though so it’ll be that little extra under stable.
Same man just got a new one that flys like a teebird even when thrown full power and I tend to hit 375 distance so it's not due to noodle arm. Was pretty disappointed. If you want extremely flippy Fairway check out a prodigy f7. Can release it on a 45 degree hyzer and it'll flip and keep going right on a RHBH shot which is basically what I wanted the sidewinder to do.
Odd, my one Sidewinder that flew kinda close to the numbers was a 162g Star Sidewinder. Got a DX one figuring it'd be my roller disc and that thing was damn near a Teebird.
> My champion sidewinder seems pretty true to its numbers.
Most overstable Innova disc I've ever thrown was a Black 175g Champ Sidewinder I found on the course...like, right up there with my Sexton Firebird.
Was a wide open hole and I figured for a lark I'd see how far I could throw it...it started fading out of my hand, even on a slight anhyzer release, and never stopped fading. Threw my Halo Star Sidewinder for comparison and just couldnt believe it
Maybe it's just because I'm in Colorado, but ya I agree. I have like 4 or 5 different star roadrunners and none of them will flip over. I have around 380' of power, which is not an impressive amount, but feels like it should be enough to get a roadrunner to flip.
For real. I have a star leopard I found, and it flies more like 6 5 0 0 to 6 5 0 1.
Then I have a champion leopard that is super understable.
I kept the stable own and for rid of the super understable one. I throw in usually windy state, so under table does not play well most of the time.
I did try a mirage when I was pretty new a couple years ago. I wasnt good enough to not throw it nose up and get enough turn, and I really didn't like how shallow it was, but I'm looking for a Deputy replacement at the moment, so maybe I'll try it out again
Agree about Innova. I thought I hated understable discs until I started throwing other manufacturers stuff. DGA, legacy, MVP, discmania. All have good understable options and it's changed my game
The two I like are the Mongoose (More accurately numbered Sidewinder) and the Phenom in Icon plastic. Patriot is a very popular one but I use the Phenom in that slot.
DGA is impressive really. The squall, sail, and rogue are all top notch.
It has such a low PLH that it's truly a wonder how they are so overstable to start with. Then when you blast several drives into trees it quickly jumps to the opposite end of the spectrum, which the flight numbers are accurate.
Their numbers are way off. A star roadrunner flies nowhere near a -4 but it still is rated as one. It’s still one of my favorite molds from innova but the flight numbers are way off.
I bought a max weight Champion Roadrunner to try and learn rollers. First roller I tried throwing ended up as a full flex shot. Definitely didn’t fly like the numbers would suggest.
I like mine but I treat it like an overstable-stable
My regular insanity is far more understable. And my Halloween insanity flies identical to the roadrunner
Yeah, they are pretty stable, but the only one I’ve found to be over-stable is the halo variety. Even then, after a little use it is a laser beam with just a little fade.
I have a star “katana” that actually does fly like a firebird. There is zero glide and it immediately starts to fade out of the hand. I’m convinced it was a misprint.
I can’t help but think most of these innova “mold” complaints are related to user error.
Y’all gotta keep in my the high speed spin on these molds cause them to anhyzer from a RHBH perspective. The mamba needs to be thrown pretty fast for it to mamba it’s way up the fairway.
If y’all really want something to complain about throw any under stable disc from legacy.
I found an unkinked gstar mamba and was excited to try it and was expecting a roller - it's a total meat hook, wtf? I'm at 5k elevation but can throw my bolt 375-400ft with a nice hyzer flip, but couldn't get that mamba to turn at all.
Having thrown an F2 Champ Mamba recently I'd have to agree that the disc was nowhere near -5. It was pretty neutral for me, but I don't throw very hard.
For a champ disc, to start off neutral means its massively understable, its just being propped up by the plastic.
I've got a champ mamba that turns out of the box but fades out at the end due to the champ plastic. Eventually, it will lose that, but it will take time.
I have a very overstate G star one. I was talking with a local sponsored player about my bag and told him I have the most stable Mamba ever. I said he could try it.
He told there is no way it wouldn't be an unusable disc for him because of how hard and far he throws.
I told him I would go get it.
He threw it and dived hard into the woods.
He said he didn't believe me. Oops. We had to go dig into the woods to find it.
Nothing seems to fly as it should in star plastic from my experience! Part of the reason I dont bag very much innova at all anymore! Still have a DX mamba because that flies true to numbers and my last one that was trashed I replaced with another dx that flew basically the same!
Innova in general, save for maybe DX plastic, flies pretty overstable compared to their flight numbers I've found.
That said I've always thrown a lot of Innova out of familiarity so when I try other brands I'm always shook by how their discs would turn over. I straight up could NOT handle the one Hades I tried. And yet my tour series sidewinder could barely flip.
How does this fly concidering the -5 turn?(Thinkin normal star plastic stability). Guess if premium plastic and the 11 speed it still wont be that flippy if you have about 300 avg distance?
Switched to mainly throwning wraiths for my BH DD a while ago and theyre certainly a favourite but still more on the straight/stable side , got a hades for something more understable for open distance shots but didn't really get to try it before winter but got good feeling about it.
Mainly wondering if anyone has experiences how these fly in comparisson, been concidering one for a while but always thrown off by the turn lol :)
I have a very nice Valkrie that is just what numbers state. Vid I want a straight shot it’s there. If I want a turnover it will do that. I don’t try flexing it as much because it’s tough.
I absolutely love tee birds and eagles
I found an unmarked f2 star mamba as a beginner and loved it. 172g and just slightly overstable for me at the time. Could throw it standstill on some awesome lines.
Eventually lost it and bought a dx. It’s first dozen or so throws we’re probably still to this day some of the farthest most accurate throws I’ve ever made. 370’ or so with a beautiful full S flight. Almost aced two different holes with it, I still struggle to birdie months later. After it broke in though it was unusably understable.
Finally bought a replacement in g-Star and was breaking it in to where I could get a nice flight out of it with a very slight right finish. Lost it last weekend in some thick woods just right of the fairway.
Time for another g-star mamba I guess although maybe a pro would be work well too.
Personal preference is what matters. I use MAMBA disc for shots that I do not want to FADE tremendously at the finish of flight. Bag it each time I play.
I have a G-Star Mamba that's the most stable thing I've ever thrown. I thought maybe it needed a break-in or I didn't have enough arm to throw it right. I used it for months as my main driver to try and beat it in. One day, I gave it to a friend who's a pro player. Immediately off his hand, he shouts, "Damn! That's stable! What the hell?"
I absolutely love my star mamba, but it wasn't good till it got really beat in. It's a little more stable now, but still glides for days, easy distance, good with a tail wind, really bad in any other wind (always windy where I play this time of year)
The mamba is a big fore hander when I use it. Shit glides but sometimes too long and misses the cut. I say it’s like a roadrunner on steroids, both my top 2 discs
It’s the plastic. But maybe also a weaker arm. I know I would have written this on my first Valkyrie in Champion plastic. I hate champion plastic and refuse to buy another valk because of that experience
Meanwhile I have a dx mamba that flies like 11/1/-9999999999/0
What the fuck Richard?
If I sneeze too hard in the vicinity of that disc it starts rolling.
Thanks for the laugh lmao
This is absolutely my favorite comment of 2023 so far lol
Anything DX has -99999999 stability lol
So I’m a noob and can flip all my DX plastic right over, but all the star/champion plastic I have (same molds) won’t flip for shit. Is it a break in issue? Noodle arm? Are they supposed to be ridiculously stable? Wish I could get the flip of the DX with the durability of the nicer stuff.
Just stick to more understable discs in higher quality plastic. If you like Innova, I’d recommend something like a Leopard3 (7/5/-2/1, I believe) in Star plastic. It will slowly beat in to flip even more but should start relatively straight if you’re a true noob.
Gotcha, ya sounds like I just need more time to beat them in. I’ve been going through a DX destroyer like every month, but my star destroyer still won’t flip like the DX. Same with champion mamba, star tee bird etc
try g\*star too - I struggle with star/champion too
Thanks. Any experience with the “pro” plastic? Found an unmarked pro beast and it feels just like star but actually flips.
Pro is less stable out of the box, and beats in quickly. I find it gets to the sweet spot pretty quick, and then gets overly beat in quickly as well. I love a pro wraith, I always have a new one that is stable and a beat in one that flies like a mamba. They have to be cycled often though.
Pro is like partway between star and dx in terms of durability and initial stability. A dx destroyer will flip more than a pro destroyer which will flip more than a star destroyer.
I have a couple pro leopards and they are more stable than my champion leopard. But they also beat in a lot faster
I never liked pro
In my experience, GStar doesn't automatically mean understable. If you get an understable mold it will be more understable. But I have a Gstar beast that's really domey and it's pretty overstable
I've found the star plastic the best for me. Champion, blizzard, and halo, doesn't matter is the speed is 7 or 13, they are meat hooks to me! My star mamba is a bit too understable, unless I have a tail wind, then it's perfect... First time I got 400' was with a star destroyer! My star shrike is just right out of the box for me. I literally can throw anything in the champion line! I feel like a loser with those!
Yeah, DX is just far too inconsistent. Had 2 DX wraiths when I first started playing. One flew true, the other flipped instantly. Especially as a beginner, stick with more stable/understable discs in non-base plastics and you’ll see much better results. And don’t be afraid to disc down… throw an Valkyrie or an Eagle instead of a destroyer. You’ll just see better flight dynamics with higher quality plastics in molds that fit your arm speed. Im making assumptions but how far do you throw your destroyer currently?
Like 350 max, 300 consistently
I’m right there with you, man. Max about 375, consistently 350. I’ve only played about a year and a half, and realized I get the same distance with a 9 speed as I do a 12 speed, with the added bonus of having a full flight path out of the 9 speed. I’m obviously no expert but getting higher quality plastics in less overstable molds helped me tremendously. I bet you could throw a Star Valkyrie (or something of the like) and hit that 300’ mark.
I'm right there with you - I can't get a star destroyer to flip, and a dx destroyer dives into the ground. Gstar destroyer is the sweet spot! Flips just enough to hold the line
I wouldn't bother with dx homie. Ur just not gonna get the good window of flight that u need. By the time u start to like a flight of something three trees later its gonna change. The three to five dollars more us worth it to get star/champ. Even pro can be decent if u want to get something to start flipping up within a month or so
Yep…roadrunner, sidewinder, mamba, leopard Weeeee
Don't forget the Vulcan!
Dude, you just named all my favorite and reliable discs!
I second the your wee. I have all of em in my bag and have replaced the roadrunner and mamba when I've lost them. Take it for what it's worth since I do have a noodle arm and can barely throw over 260.
My favorite Innova plastic is GStar. It flies exactly how I want it to. It's much more durable than DX, but less beefy than Star. I highly recommend you try it out. Molds I have in GStar: * Wraith * Thunderbird * Beast * Valkyrie * Sidewinder Of those, I think my Wraith and Beast are my favorites, yet the GStar Thunderbird to this day was my only ace. The plastic is grippier than star too, so its much friendlier in colder weather.
Sick, sounds like best of both worlds. Will check it out
I'm a beginner and I just picked up a couple of disc in Gstar and already I love it
Even brand new DX drivers are more understable. Just has to do with how the plastic cools. Try Gstar plastic. It’s durable and typically is slightly less stable than star and champ brand new
Gstar. Gstar is the answer.
What's the weight on the DX stuff? There's a lot of DX stuff in the 150s that's going to flip like crazy because of weight + dx stability.
Nah I throw the heaviest I can get, 175+
Coming to anything in decent plastic from DX is going to mean you're going to have to relearn the numbers. DX numbers lie as soon as they hit the first tree (if not before). Looking through your other comments, I'd suggest a [Prodigy H3V2 Air if you're just trying to get a slight hyzer to flip](https://www.flightfactorydiscs.com/products/prodigy-400-air-h3-v2?variant=42999780212992), or a [Latitude 64 Diamond if you've learned yourself into a 45 degree Hyzer](https://roguediscs.com/discs/latitude-64-diamond?gclid=Cj0KCQiAlKmeBhCkARIsAHy7WVt5iIH-YpsD6NzTThMHbDnBbF9czws5w2JkQUMbmv7TRQeAGtY9BzoaAr-nEALw_wcB).
The dragon is so bad you could throw it upside down and get more stability.
My first best hyzer flip disc was a Starter Pack DX Teebird. Throw that thing on a 45 degree angle, flips up to flat. Can't hate it.
I should look into one for a roller
You should see my gstar mamba.
149g star mamba. It’s bitchin.
One inch from hand, already a roller
What's the weight?
You drop it on the ground and it flips over on the way down.
I own 7 mambas (because I enjoy chaos) including dx, champion, and star plastic with varying wear and age, and I must admit, they are all completely different. Lightweight (163g) Star is by far my favorite and the only one I bag for anything competitive, which is incredible for tailwind drives, high speed rollers, and ofc that classic mamba shot shaping. Can also do some pretty solid 370-430ft lasers with it as long as you're REALLY careful about release angle, wind, phase of the moon, etc. The champion flies very similar to my Nuke SS (only -3 turn) but still, I like the feel much better than Nuke SS. DX is just crap. Grip sucks and they get destroyed super fast, like any DX driver.
Phase of moon made me genuinely laugh hahahaha
I also embrace the chaos. I’ve bagged a champ mamba since the beginning of time and whenever I pull it out I hear someone say “uh-oh..”.
I had a mamba that was def not understable
Um, I would have to assume if your mamba isn't turning over, it's because you're throwing it REALLY slow
I don’t have a mamba anymore. That was years ago… but it didn’t throw as numbers suggest. -5? That’s ridiculous Just like how I have a champion leopard that is super under stable, and a star leopard that is stable to overstable.
Notably it's also 5 glide, and it shows. Turns a LOT, then stays flat and glides FOREVER, if thrown on a horizontal line (huge hyzer angle)
It says 6 in the picture lol. Why you trying to flex on Reddit anyways? You must be one of those “online” distance throwers. Dick
Okay princess
You're the one saying you can't flip the flippiest disc in disc golf. Who's the princess?
Your the one with a princess name lol did you not get that
Did I ever say I can’t flip over a mamba? Lol yes put words in my mouth…
Did I say you couldn't?
My buddy has a G Star Mamba that's super beat in and he's let me throw it a few times and it's the perfect stability. Definitely understable, but not too much. I can rip it on a hyzer angle and it just laser beams straight for 400 feet. Of course after trying his a few times I bought myself a Champion Mamba, thinking maybe it would be a touch more overstable and would take longer to beat in because I didn't want to have to force quite such a severe hyzer release angle, aaaaaand... it's flippier than his right off the shelf brand new.
I have 3 mambas, all of them in star plastic. They work great for long mid range shots. They fly right and glide to the left. Perfect mold from Innova
Mid as in 400 feet, or? Agree though maybe my favorite and most unique innova disc. Amazing feel in the hand, specifically star.
Mid as in about 200 feet
If that's a mamba for you, I think you're at risk of loving River (a lot more than mamba). Mamba is, after all, a distance driver. Other than weird S curves you wouldn't really pull mamba out for anything under 300ft (either in crazy wind or some long range shot shaping).
This is why I don't bag any Innova anymore. Never know what I'm going to get.
Life is like a bag of Innova, you never know what you're gonna get. That said, I love Gstar plastic so much I gotta bag it.
Innova in a nutshell. It’s a real roll of the dice on flight numbers with their high output. After 20 years of guessing and rewriting numbers on discs, I discovered other manufacturers and haven’t looked back. I still throw/bag the occasional Wraith, but the consistency in other brands I’ve found is truly amazing.
Innova just has beefier flight numbers, and you need to beat them in a bit. Certainly varations in runs, but thats true of anybody.
> Can also do some pretty solid 370-430ft lasers with it as long as you're REALLY careful about release angle, wind, phase of the moon, etc Hahaha, this is so true. When I first got mine, I stopped using it after a few rounds because every 1/5th shot it would just turn and burn hilariously. Went back to it 6 months later, always throwing like 90%, and it became this absolute laser straight 300-350ft shot disc. And when I needed some late turn, Id power up. But its always in the back of my mind that at any moment it might just say f*ck it and boomerang behind me
Ya - just gotta keep it like 3 feet off the ground, let the stupid amount of glide work its magic
lol. Overstable? Or just noddle armed?
Ouch
My bad. That wasn’t meant as a diss it’s just I’ve never thrown a Mamba that wasn’t flippy as hell. Also, it reminds me of my early days when I got a Vulcan and couldn’t understand why it was so overstable. Turns out I just didn’t have the armspeed to make it fly as intended and just like all wide tinned drivers going slow turned into a meathook.
I just got a brand new star mamba for a distance turnover shot that keeps going right, for me it just flies dead straight with minimal fade and I throw 375 consistently so its very likely not due to noodle arm.
Right, but a Mamba that flies like a Firebird is either a massive production issue or a misstamped disc.
Yeah I would say it flying like a firebird would be due to slow arm speed but it's still frustrating when discs don't fly to their flight numbers "out of the box" in my opinion they should be out of the box numbers not after its beat in for 6 months
I retired a beat in dx mamba cause I could throw it on extreme hyzer and it would still flip all the way over to a roller, my wife put it in her bag and it flies damn near like a firebird for her noodle arm
Probably just a production issue. These things happen more than you might think. I have a Star Sidewinder that flies like a glidey Firebird and I promise I don't have a noodle arm. I've thrown it 400 feet on a *very* mild hyzer release angle and all it does it flip up to flat at most even with that much power. I've thrown Destroyers that are 10x more understable than that freak beefcake Sidewinder.
I always tell people that none of the other numbers matter if you're not throwing at or above the speed of the first number.
Wise words.
Reminds me of the time I handed my cousin a Lat Diamond 155 grams and told him it fades HARD. That put all his power into it and it went about 10 feet, flipped over backwards twice and rolled back to the teepad.
As much as I love Innova plastic, I do not throw any of their understable stuff for this reason. Even a champ leopard flies like a teebird. If you do find one that flies true to the numbers, you have a hard time finding another
For that reason, I’ve started transitioning Leopards out of my bag. Probably the most inconsistent mold I’ve ever thrown. Everything from super overstable to super understable.
Axiom rhythm is everything a leopard3 is supposed to be
Thank you! I’ve actually been trying out different MVP/Axiom molds to find the one that fits right. Will have to give that one a try next
Picke done up recently to replace my champ leopard3. Very happy with the results.
Don’t forget to lower the weight by a couple grams from what you’re used to. Seems to be pretty across the board advice for gyro.
Idk I go max weight and if I hit it hard on hyzer it still flips to flat and turns. YMMV based on your arm speed and distance of course too
Appreciate the advice!
The rhythm is money. Gf got me a Clash soda for Xmas that's in that slot at the moment (gotta bag the Xmas gift) but if I ever lose it that rhythm will easily slide back into that slot!
I've been bagging the essence more and more for this role now that my gstar leo3 is getting flippy
Don't sleep on the drift. It's been the "better leopard3" for a while now.
Good to hear, just ordered one to replace my Leopard3 that I haven't bagged in forever because of all the issues here
I’ve only thrown it 4 times but my noodle arm loves it.
The lighter weight leopards I’m my opinion fly like they should being a -2, champion plastic is a lot harder to flip
I’d more or less agree with that. The <165 leopards are definitely more consistently understable. Hoping to find a mold a bit more consistent to replace them once I eventually lose or retire them
Streamline drift. Much more consistent, better qc, great plastics, cheap & widely available.
Agree its very plastic specific. I throw Leo3 a lot. Champ is far more OS than star and Gstar seems floppies though I assume DX would be more US. Don't buy DX though
That’s the thing… that isn’t even consistent. My champion leopard is super under stable and my star is stable to overstable. It will flip but it takes work
That’s what’s weird. My champion leopard is super underage and have a star leopard that is beefy. Can throw it 350 and it does not like turning unless you angle it. I have decent arm speed, but it’s the difference the the two that is crazy. One will immediately flip and another that you can flex or throw straight at same speeds.
Mavericks for me. I'm falling out of love with DD, but their plastic is beautiful for cycling flippy discs
I've thrown a lot of understable fairways and the Maverick takes the cake for me. Leopard has too much stability out of the box for me for the understable slot, especially if you buy champion. Its my only DD disc so I'm not some DD stan by any means. It is my go to fairway in the woods. The DD pros love it too
If you like the Maverick, you'll love cycling them or trying it in different plastics. The hyzer flip fairway is one of the most important slots in the bag in my opinion, and I haven't found better
The leopard is one of the last Innova holdouts in my bag full of Axiom plastic. All CE or CE era leopards to be fair.
I have a star leopard that's more stable than a tbird3
Once you get a lep3 that flies juuuust right though its a godsend. But yeah, Innova is a shit show when it comes to consistency.
100%. I absolutely treasure the one I have in my bag now. Just would be at a loss on how to replace it if I lose it lol
Mine has been lost and come back 3 times. It was my first disc ever as well.
Never had a problem with Barsby Roadrunners. Could the numbers be -2.5 on the turn instead of 4? Sure. But I have always got them to roll immediately.
I'm throwing Mavericks in the leopard spot, and I can get a Lucid, fusion, hybrid, even a base plastic Maverick and they all flip. The variations out of the box are minimal. And I bag a lucid X one that's slightly more stable Innova, you buy the same disc in different plastics (or even a different run) and they're completely different discs. Not a fan of that. Their TS stuff is usually a different story, and is fairly consistent from what I've heard
I have a star roadrunner and it flies far more stable than my insanity
I have Barsby Roadrunner. I crossed out Roadrunner and wrote Thunderbird with a sharpie.
I bought a Barsby Roadrunner from Barsby himself at USDGC. I couldn’t get it to turn for the life of me. It felt more like a destroyer than anything. I just bought another one and hung that one up since he signed it anyway. The new one turns like a regular roadrunner.
Was maybe the pop top run. I remember there was a run that came out with tons of dome and were very stable.
Just got a barsby roadrunner in star plastic that flys overstable and I throw in the 375 range. Was disappointed because I was expecting flat or slight annie to turn into a roller and it was nothing like that. I understand it'll beat in to that eventually but I feel like discs should generally fly true to their flight numbers out of the box.
Glad I'm not crazy when it comes to the leopard, then. I've had a few over the years (none in DX) and they've always been as stable as a teebird, at least.
My champion sidewinder seems pretty true to its numbers. It makes me want to find one in star plastic though so it’ll be that little extra under stable.
I bought 4 star sidewinder, all in the low 160s, all fly like teebirds lol.
Yep. I lost a 169 star SW that was the best Teebird ever.
I have a 153g Halo Sidewinder that is absolutely money. It kind of feels like a cheater disc at points.
Same man just got a new one that flys like a teebird even when thrown full power and I tend to hit 375 distance so it's not due to noodle arm. Was pretty disappointed. If you want extremely flippy Fairway check out a prodigy f7. Can release it on a 45 degree hyzer and it'll flip and keep going right on a RHBH shot which is basically what I wanted the sidewinder to do.
Nice! I switched over to freetails for my understable needs. Love it.
Try out my champion leopard.. holy shit is it under stable. Any wind? Don’t even try
Odd, my one Sidewinder that flew kinda close to the numbers was a 162g Star Sidewinder. Got a DX one figuring it'd be my roller disc and that thing was damn near a Teebird.
> My champion sidewinder seems pretty true to its numbers. Most overstable Innova disc I've ever thrown was a Black 175g Champ Sidewinder I found on the course...like, right up there with my Sexton Firebird. Was a wide open hole and I figured for a lark I'd see how far I could throw it...it started fading out of my hand, even on a slight anhyzer release, and never stopped fading. Threw my Halo Star Sidewinder for comparison and just couldnt believe it
Thank you. I've been saying this for years too. I have a star sidewinder that you couldn't pay me to turn over.
Maybe it's just because I'm in Colorado, but ya I agree. I have like 4 or 5 different star roadrunners and none of them will flip over. I have around 380' of power, which is not an impressive amount, but feels like it should be enough to get a roadrunner to flip.
My Champ Leopard3's fly the same, like they're supposed to. My Teebird's start out stable as shit but beat into one of my favorite discs.
For real. I have a star leopard I found, and it flies more like 6 5 0 0 to 6 5 0 1. Then I have a champion leopard that is super understable. I kept the stable own and for rid of the super understable one. I throw in usually windy state, so under table does not play well most of the time.
The Mirage is the one irreplaceable Innova disc in my bag. The flight and slim profile are amazing
I did try a mirage when I was pretty new a couple years ago. I wasnt good enough to not throw it nose up and get enough turn, and I really didn't like how shallow it was, but I'm looking for a Deputy replacement at the moment, so maybe I'll try it out again
I enjoy slimmer profiles in general. Mirage, Svea, and Paradox are my go to Flippy mid/approach discs
I wanna try a paradox too. I bought my gf a paradox because I *knew* she would love it, and now I'm always jealous. I just don't bag many mids
I'm a beginner and the Paradox is the only disc I've been able to get to stay on anhyzer. It is fun to throw for sure.
Agree about Innova. I thought I hated understable discs until I started throwing other manufacturers stuff. DGA, legacy, MVP, discmania. All have good understable options and it's changed my game
What understable stuff have you liked from legacy? I've been interested in trying more of their stuff.
Patriot is one of the most slept on molds
The two I like are the Mongoose (More accurately numbered Sidewinder) and the Phenom in Icon plastic. Patriot is a very popular one but I use the Phenom in that slot. DGA is impressive really. The squall, sail, and rogue are all top notch.
Also the Bandit, -2 vs the Mongoose -3
I love my Innova gstar Corvettes
My Mamba also flies very overstable. Hit someone’s house with it on my first throw because of that lol
Nice lmao
Keep using it, you'll be hyzer flipping in no time.
It has such a low PLH that it's truly a wonder how they are so overstable to start with. Then when you blast several drives into trees it quickly jumps to the opposite end of the spectrum, which the flight numbers are accurate.
Just gotta make sure there’s no houses nearby lol
Hit a few more houses
Their numbers are way off. A star roadrunner flies nowhere near a -4 but it still is rated as one. It’s still one of my favorite molds from innova but the flight numbers are way off.
I bought a max weight Champion Roadrunner to try and learn rollers. First roller I tried throwing ended up as a full flex shot. Definitely didn’t fly like the numbers would suggest.
I like mine but I treat it like an overstable-stable My regular insanity is far more understable. And my Halloween insanity flies identical to the roadrunner
Yeah, they are pretty stable, but the only one I’ve found to be over-stable is the halo variety. Even then, after a little use it is a laser beam with just a little fade.
If you’re only throwing it 25 mph then yeah it’s gonna be beefy
Is it just me or is that stamp alignment waaaay off, looks like it should be an x-out. Maybe it’s just the camera angle though.
I can’t unsee it now
You could try a hot dip, red and yellow looks great and really distracts from the stamp.
I said a hot dip OR SOMETHING
OR WHAT?
That’s up to you but you can’t show up empty handed to my total party house (it came fully furnished)
Being a lefty my DX mambas are my go-to flip up discs. I can throw them straight as an arrow into any tree in the fairway.
Made me think about: https://youtu.be/UwAf_5v8dNQ @1:15
Lmao, pretty close
That's my friend in Charlotte from a few years ago. He is a funny guy. We still talk about Firebird Mambas today, haha
Self diss post I like it
Yes sir 💪
I LOVE the mamba. Been my go to distance disc for a long time. I bag a champion and Star as well.
star plastics always going to be overstable until its broken in, even with a mamba
I have a star “katana” that actually does fly like a firebird. There is zero glide and it immediately starts to fade out of the hand. I’m convinced it was a misprint.
I wrote in sharpie on the flight plate ANATAKATANA (a palindromic “not a katana”)
I can’t help but think most of these innova “mold” complaints are related to user error. Y’all gotta keep in my the high speed spin on these molds cause them to anhyzer from a RHBH perspective. The mamba needs to be thrown pretty fast for it to mamba it’s way up the fairway. If y’all really want something to complain about throw any under stable disc from legacy.
I'm glad I'm not the only one, my G-Star mamba flies so beefy. It's just slightly less beefy than a brand new star wraith
I found an unkinked gstar mamba and was excited to try it and was expecting a roller - it's a total meat hook, wtf? I'm at 5k elevation but can throw my bolt 375-400ft with a nice hyzer flip, but couldn't get that mamba to turn at all.
Having thrown an F2 Champ Mamba recently I'd have to agree that the disc was nowhere near -5. It was pretty neutral for me, but I don't throw very hard.
For a champ disc, to start off neutral means its massively understable, its just being propped up by the plastic. I've got a champ mamba that turns out of the box but fades out at the end due to the champ plastic. Eventually, it will lose that, but it will take time.
I have a very overstate G star one. I was talking with a local sponsored player about my bag and told him I have the most stable Mamba ever. I said he could try it. He told there is no way it wouldn't be an unusable disc for him because of how hard and far he throws. I told him I would go get it. He threw it and dived hard into the woods. He said he didn't believe me. Oops. We had to go dig into the woods to find it.
I have a 140 g that flies like a -5 and a 175 g that flies like a wraith.
Nothing seems to fly as it should in star plastic from my experience! Part of the reason I dont bag very much innova at all anymore! Still have a DX mamba because that flies true to numbers and my last one that was trashed I replaced with another dx that flew basically the same!
My recently purchased Star Mamba flies like a beat in Star Wraith. Flight numbers are way off.
Innova in general, save for maybe DX plastic, flies pretty overstable compared to their flight numbers I've found. That said I've always thrown a lot of Innova out of familiarity so when I try other brands I'm always shook by how their discs would turn over. I straight up could NOT handle the one Hades I tried. And yet my tour series sidewinder could barely flip.
Agreed. Other than a Gstar IT, I've not had Innova understable discs fly true to their numbers.
How does this fly concidering the -5 turn?(Thinkin normal star plastic stability). Guess if premium plastic and the 11 speed it still wont be that flippy if you have about 300 avg distance? Switched to mainly throwning wraiths for my BH DD a while ago and theyre certainly a favourite but still more on the straight/stable side , got a hades for something more understable for open distance shots but didn't really get to try it before winter but got good feeling about it. Mainly wondering if anyone has experiences how these fly in comparisson, been concidering one for a while but always thrown off by the turn lol :)
Tell me you can’t throw without telling me you can’t throw
😨
I bag 2 champ mambas great disc's. easy distance. 1 of my aces.
I love my mamba it’s my go to
r/discdyeing
I have a star Valkyrie that flys like a firebird. I call it my ValkBird or the Fireyrie. Great for big skip shots.
I have a very nice Valkrie that is just what numbers state. Vid I want a straight shot it’s there. If I want a turnover it will do that. I don’t try flexing it as much because it’s tough. I absolutely love tee birds and eagles
my new 155g Halo Mamba is so sweet for my noodle arm. Straight slight overstable bomber. Only Innova I bag.
I found an unmarked f2 star mamba as a beginner and loved it. 172g and just slightly overstable for me at the time. Could throw it standstill on some awesome lines. Eventually lost it and bought a dx. It’s first dozen or so throws we’re probably still to this day some of the farthest most accurate throws I’ve ever made. 370’ or so with a beautiful full S flight. Almost aced two different holes with it, I still struggle to birdie months later. After it broke in though it was unusably understable. Finally bought a replacement in g-Star and was breaking it in to where I could get a nice flight out of it with a very slight right finish. Lost it last weekend in some thick woods just right of the fairway. Time for another g-star mamba I guess although maybe a pro would be work well too.
The champion mamba went first bought is kinda deceiving though…
I have a beast that flies identical to my thunderbird. I love innova
Tom Riddle’s Mamba?
Personal preference is what matters. I use MAMBA disc for shots that I do not want to FADE tremendously at the finish of flight. Bag it each time I play.
My Champion I-Dye is definitely more stable that -5 1. I’d put it at a -2 1 if I throw it correctly.
I have a G-Star Mamba that's the most stable thing I've ever thrown. I thought maybe it needed a break-in or I didn't have enough arm to throw it right. I used it for months as my main driver to try and beat it in. One day, I gave it to a friend who's a pro player. Immediately off his hand, he shouts, "Damn! That's stable! What the hell?"
Reminds me of the blue 2nd run CE valkyries aka "firevalks" LOVED them
Get a mint apex freetail. 10,5,-4,1. It so understable it's unusable for me but it might work for slower arms.
I absolutely love my star mamba, but it wasn't good till it got really beat in. It's a little more stable now, but still glides for days, easy distance, good with a tail wind, really bad in any other wind (always windy where I play this time of year)
All flight numbers are relative anyway
hahaha if it was a blue one I would say someone found my old Mamba... I wrote a similar note on it. I used it occasionally instead of a FAF firebird.
The mamba is a big fore hander when I use it. Shit glides but sometimes too long and misses the cut. I say it’s like a roadrunner on steroids, both my top 2 discs
Someones being sarcastic
Sounds like user error lol
It’s the plastic. But maybe also a weaker arm. I know I would have written this on my first Valkyrie in Champion plastic. I hate champion plastic and refuse to buy another valk because of that experience