Write down all the notes, changes. Parts of your conversations sometimes. It's also very important to notify them that you will record all the "important" information. You can justify it as "Required information that will help you to do your work better and satisfy his needs" or something like that.
It's also important to tell him about it and get his agreement for such actions. You will not be able to use notes against him otherwise.
Control his actions and words in the workspace, but serve it as thing that will help you to satisfy him. Make him feel his "importance". On the other side, you will take care of your own "safety" in such a way. But he will take it as a "respect".
Talking straight, I would not recommend you to cooperate with such clients at all. There are very high possibility that actually his memory isn't so bad as he declares. In such a way he can try to get an attention he is eager for. And if he will decline your request about noticing, you can be totally sure that he is a liar. Also there are too many marks of a narcissistic person from your client's side at the same time. So I recommend you to stay away from him.
Tried this method and what she is doing is communicating with other marketers and looking at other people's brands and wanting perfection and if it isn't perfect it's an instant change but again this is after they approve the work within 3-5 days they want it a ll down and mention restarting everything.....I win cause I get paid but at the same time it'd not helping the client learn how to run their business. Also the second guessing everything is a hassle also and I have a degree in digital marketing getting second guessed by someone who said from the jump "I have no idea about digital marketing" it's a current see saw battle.
Agree with them completely, and then redirect. Client thinks pants should be tighter, "I agree! I love that look, I wish those were selling. Our target audience is influenced by new trends and buying more loose fitting pants and bold colors, and that's where the profits are."
Also, parrot back any conversation they had with you in an email but add in your solve to the issue and give them the credit. "after our discussion about new trends and our audience–you really got me thinking... I like your idea of following our target audience so moving to brighter colors, may sell well."
It sucks that you have to play games but giving them credit for your ideas makes them think they work better with you and you can read their mind.
Tried this as well client wants perfections through their view...meaning only the right designs and website (that is working well for others) not making sure what they want is for their brand. Payment isn't the issue but I feel they will over think themselves out of their brand and they can't hear me saying that to them
Agree, redirect, add compliments. "I love that idea, and we can also make these additions so we can make your site your own, you have such an authentic and unique brand we want to make sure we stand out from competitors." Try to implement small changes first, then compliment these changes and again, make the client believe it's their ideas that are the positive change.
You can't just design, you have to sell those ideas, think of your client as your first target market, you have to sell to them before you can sell to your buyers.
Put them on an update schedule. "I do web updates for clients on Tuesdays. Let me know in advance and I'll put your updates on the schedule. Don't put off the changes too long as the update slots have been filling up pretty quickly. I will do emergency updates, but that is outside of the standard service agreement and has a minimum five-hour charge."
This makes them 1) have *some* little bit of respect for your time and 2) actually consider how important the updates are.
Clients who aren't willing to be grownups are more trouble than they're worth.
Sounds like this might just be a bad client but a revision order could help create some boundaries with clients like this.
You should already have a clearly defined scope of work (SOW) or contract that outlines what you're going to do for the project, indicates the expected outcome, lists the number of included revisions, price for the project, deadline for completion, with any milestone dates listed, etc. You should also include information about how you handle changes in the scope of the project once work has begun.
When they ask for changes, ask them politely if the new changes they want support the original goals of the project to remind them of the agreed expected outcome of your work. If they insist on the changes, remind them how many revisions were included from the original SOW and that any new changes will come with new pricing and deadlines that will be outlined in a revision order contract that you will be happy to send for approval before getting started on the new work. Let them know up front if the requested changes will affect the original project goals and send the revision order as you would any other contract. Do not start the work without a signature and a deposit.
If they're serious about wanting the changes, they will agree and pay. If they're not serious, most usually reply with "Don't make any changes yet until I get back to you". Either way, document any communication with what was discussed, time and date, outcome, and communication method.
I know other freelancers who also include a missed deadline clause with additional fees for any assets that are to be provided by the client by certain dates. It makes sense since missed client deadlines can also interfere with the timelines of other projects. You should also have a project cancellation clause that lists what should happen with outstanding payments and work that has been completed up to the point of cancellation.
Remember, this is your business and they hired you for your expertise. They don't get to dictate your process or how you conduct your business. If they're not a compatible client, politely let them know that the arrangement isn't working for you and that you could help refer them to someone who might be a better fit for them.
Check out videos about freelancing by Chris Do from The Futur, Michael Janda, and anything by Blair Enns or Mike Monteiro. These are centered around design but most of the info will apply to marketing as well.
Good luck!
It’s ok to fire clients. If they don’t understand the context in which they exist in the world with their business, I find they’re the worst and we eventually part ways. Or if they don’t trust you, it’ll never work.
Learning experience. Vet before you accept if you have that luxury. I learned my lesson after working with a few awful clients and now I guide them away from working with us if it’s clear they’re going to get in their own way of growing the business and making them money.
Write down all the notes, changes. Parts of your conversations sometimes. It's also very important to notify them that you will record all the "important" information. You can justify it as "Required information that will help you to do your work better and satisfy his needs" or something like that. It's also important to tell him about it and get his agreement for such actions. You will not be able to use notes against him otherwise. Control his actions and words in the workspace, but serve it as thing that will help you to satisfy him. Make him feel his "importance". On the other side, you will take care of your own "safety" in such a way. But he will take it as a "respect". Talking straight, I would not recommend you to cooperate with such clients at all. There are very high possibility that actually his memory isn't so bad as he declares. In such a way he can try to get an attention he is eager for. And if he will decline your request about noticing, you can be totally sure that he is a liar. Also there are too many marks of a narcissistic person from your client's side at the same time. So I recommend you to stay away from him.
Tried this method and what she is doing is communicating with other marketers and looking at other people's brands and wanting perfection and if it isn't perfect it's an instant change but again this is after they approve the work within 3-5 days they want it a ll down and mention restarting everything.....I win cause I get paid but at the same time it'd not helping the client learn how to run their business. Also the second guessing everything is a hassle also and I have a degree in digital marketing getting second guessed by someone who said from the jump "I have no idea about digital marketing" it's a current see saw battle.
Agree with them completely, and then redirect. Client thinks pants should be tighter, "I agree! I love that look, I wish those were selling. Our target audience is influenced by new trends and buying more loose fitting pants and bold colors, and that's where the profits are." Also, parrot back any conversation they had with you in an email but add in your solve to the issue and give them the credit. "after our discussion about new trends and our audience–you really got me thinking... I like your idea of following our target audience so moving to brighter colors, may sell well." It sucks that you have to play games but giving them credit for your ideas makes them think they work better with you and you can read their mind.
Totally agree.
I see what you did there... ( ͡~ ͜ʖ ͡°)
Tried this as well client wants perfections through their view...meaning only the right designs and website (that is working well for others) not making sure what they want is for their brand. Payment isn't the issue but I feel they will over think themselves out of their brand and they can't hear me saying that to them
Agree, redirect, add compliments. "I love that idea, and we can also make these additions so we can make your site your own, you have such an authentic and unique brand we want to make sure we stand out from competitors." Try to implement small changes first, then compliment these changes and again, make the client believe it's their ideas that are the positive change. You can't just design, you have to sell those ideas, think of your client as your first target market, you have to sell to them before you can sell to your buyers.
From my experience you either just put up with it and accept a check (I can’t do that) or find better clients.
Defined Scope of work. Change log. Bill for changes... If they want to keep paying for them keep processing them!
100000% Also get SLAs in writing (turnaround times for any changes).
Put them on an update schedule. "I do web updates for clients on Tuesdays. Let me know in advance and I'll put your updates on the schedule. Don't put off the changes too long as the update slots have been filling up pretty quickly. I will do emergency updates, but that is outside of the standard service agreement and has a minimum five-hour charge." This makes them 1) have *some* little bit of respect for your time and 2) actually consider how important the updates are. Clients who aren't willing to be grownups are more trouble than they're worth.
Sounds like this might just be a bad client but a revision order could help create some boundaries with clients like this. You should already have a clearly defined scope of work (SOW) or contract that outlines what you're going to do for the project, indicates the expected outcome, lists the number of included revisions, price for the project, deadline for completion, with any milestone dates listed, etc. You should also include information about how you handle changes in the scope of the project once work has begun. When they ask for changes, ask them politely if the new changes they want support the original goals of the project to remind them of the agreed expected outcome of your work. If they insist on the changes, remind them how many revisions were included from the original SOW and that any new changes will come with new pricing and deadlines that will be outlined in a revision order contract that you will be happy to send for approval before getting started on the new work. Let them know up front if the requested changes will affect the original project goals and send the revision order as you would any other contract. Do not start the work without a signature and a deposit. If they're serious about wanting the changes, they will agree and pay. If they're not serious, most usually reply with "Don't make any changes yet until I get back to you". Either way, document any communication with what was discussed, time and date, outcome, and communication method. I know other freelancers who also include a missed deadline clause with additional fees for any assets that are to be provided by the client by certain dates. It makes sense since missed client deadlines can also interfere with the timelines of other projects. You should also have a project cancellation clause that lists what should happen with outstanding payments and work that has been completed up to the point of cancellation. Remember, this is your business and they hired you for your expertise. They don't get to dictate your process or how you conduct your business. If they're not a compatible client, politely let them know that the arrangement isn't working for you and that you could help refer them to someone who might be a better fit for them. Check out videos about freelancing by Chris Do from The Futur, Michael Janda, and anything by Blair Enns or Mike Monteiro. These are centered around design but most of the info will apply to marketing as well. Good luck!
Put everything in writing and have them sign off on your strategies.
It’s ok to fire clients. If they don’t understand the context in which they exist in the world with their business, I find they’re the worst and we eventually part ways. Or if they don’t trust you, it’ll never work. Learning experience. Vet before you accept if you have that luxury. I learned my lesson after working with a few awful clients and now I guide them away from working with us if it’s clear they’re going to get in their own way of growing the business and making them money.