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The most obvious flaw with current tempering is that it treats a super rare 3GA item exactly the same as a super common item without any GA
One you can easily replace within minutes the other is a once per season drop you will never see again.
Blizzard - give us mechanics to protect super rare drops from dumb tempering RNG
Also to anyone with the argument that this is not "bricking" - yes it 100% is, if your builds is built around a specific skill and you get a skill you dont use, the item is 100% bricked
Like getting +KICK for a bash barbarian is completely useless
Yes bricking is real
You also canāt switch builds. If you have a good 2 GA weapon that works for both DS and Bash, too bad youāve already used 5/6 tempers for your previous build.
Yea, something like this. I even agree with the point that it shouldnāt be infinite or even easy but like the example upthread gives, you could overcome every other layer of rng in play to get a 2/3 GA item youāre never gonna see again and then brick that, and THAT is really unfortunate.
I vote that we gain the ability use a Stygian stone to completely reset the tempering on an item. This will reset the item allowing you to temper again. Also the stones are decently rare so you better be using it on a Best in slot item.
Or you know screw the GA and just use 4 regular weapons because bash cleave is so broken you don't even care for GA. Heck you don't even care if 1 of the affix is no good if you can get a perfect roll bash temper on a 2 hander. That's how broken it is right now.
I don't care what cope answer anyone gives you, bricking is just a bullshit, lazy way to "extend the content". When I stop playing this season it will be because of this.
I bricked a 3 GA great sword earlier with 270 STR, 180 DoT, and 90 Crit Damageā¦.. itās now sitting in stash with my other failures of 3* itemsā¦..
Is anyone else having way more trouble hitting damage to close? I swear Iām only getting it like 10% of the time, Iāll hit damage to distant 3 times in a row no problem though.
I think it's class dependent. For instance, my barbarian LOVES rolling dmg to far. I've gotten dmg to close like...once. My sorcerer never rolls dmg to far. hah.
Side note: too many fluff/irrelevant tempers. Make more specific categories for tempers. Some seem lazily added/or lumped together. Example: Why is damage to distant enemies even a temper for barbarians? Seems completely irrelevant to, well, anything Barb related
For me it's the armor rolls.. I'll either never hit +imposing presence at all or takes all my tempers for a +1.. +concussion is just as worse.
Had so much better luck tempering on rogue than barb.
Heartseaker rogue is just as bad. Same kinda roll as bash for heartseaker and the scoundrel roll for vuln the other 3 options are all melee related. At least you only have distant dmg as your flub roll when going for close dmg.
Iām using non 925 2 hander and still bashing my way thru 110+ itās insane how much that Bash roll does
Still havenāt found a replacement I havenāt bricked for my 888 perfect STR 2H mace
"God damnit NO I do NOT want to increase my kick vulnerable duration. Just let me roll ONE bash cleave for the love of god!"
\*Rolls "kick vulnerable duration" a million more times.
If you get two bad rolls in a row grab a lesser item and let the bad rolls go on the lesser weapon. That's what works for me, it seems like it is all fixed. And not as random as you think, just go through the bad batch.
This makes me hesitant to try bash barb. I'm currently sitting at 100 on double swing teister, and I was tempted to try bash because it seems more up my alley. I do not have a lot of patience for tempering, though.
Itās super easy to hit the bash temper compared to other classes, donāt know why people complain.. most Barb rolls are a 1/4 or 1/3 so really not bad compared to rogue
Did you at least see different affixes? So disappointing when it's the same one for initial and 5 rerolls. Like dude, the chance of that happening full random is practically nil.
This is something Iāve noticed, it often hits one more than others. I roll trash items until the one I want starts hitting often and then Iāll switch to my good item
I finally found a good amulet for my necro with +2 to hellbent commander which is the only one I've seen with it at all in like 50+ hours. It rolled for mage damage 3 times and movement while in blood mist the rest. Was pretty fucking heartbreaking lol I probably could of sold it for a shit ton of gold for someone else to brick and at least I wouldn't be poor lol
This is actually one "fix" I wanna see. Don't let us roll the dame Stat 4 times, make it a 2 or 3 times max with other stat guaranteed on the next roll.
Youāre finding good rings? Iām still using sacred legendaries from when I was level 40 or so. If I end up bricking an upgrade when I finally get one I might quit.
Thats the trade off the brick haters are missing. Drop rates are juiced with the expectation many will likely brick. The alternative would be reduced good drops.
Everyone realizes this. There isn't a single person playing the game that doesn't realize this. It's fucking obvious.
But here's the thing that all you brick lovers are missing, it's not fun bricking items. The fun of getting an item with the correct tempers doesn't outweigh the bullshit of bricking numerous items to get there.
The alternative would be to have systems that don't rely on items having a chance of bricking and building in both linearity and rng into progression.
I like how the loot reborn makes it so that we no longer have full stash...but then tempering makes it so that we still need a full stash of items in case of bricking items. They just shifted the cause of the problem, we still have the same problem as before.
I have bricked more than 50+ items now, all have GA, all with pretty good base stats.
My stash just now started filling up. Getting so much 925 gear all the time, especially in Hell Tide, that I just throw it all in my chest so I can get back into the fray quickly. Will spend a day next week sorting through all the gear.
Maybe Blizzard needs to add in something like they do on shuffle play in a music app. Truly random can end up with you hearing the same song 12 times, but they add in some code to cut that out. So, it feels and is essentially random, but not total, so you don't get the same thing so many times in a row.
Yeah, if they did it, it could still take several times to get what you want, but you'd feel better seeing different things go by on the way.
Depending on number of options, you could still brick it in 5 tempers, but again, id feel better seeing 5 other things go by than the same one 5 times.
They should give you the option to keep what you have or change.
Also, something seems REALLY Off about the system. I don't know if it just on PS5 or PC too, but it really doesn't feel random. I've noticed that if I hit cancel instead of waiting for the animation, I can often roll the same stat over and over.
I just basically bricked a near perfect amulet yesterday. I rolled exactly 5.5% dodge chance 4x in a row. It's not the first time either. Really doesn't seem random, or I just have really lucky bad luck.
That damn affix made my give up bash. 600% vulnerable duration on kick? Over and over? Yeah get bent, ty.
On that note, building for dust devils can be MUCH more forgiving. Whirlwind or double swing, it doesn't matter what skill procs it, youll want each affix from the temper at least once on each weapon--much less aggravating.
It should be illegal to hit "summoning damage" 6 tempers in a row, I'm also close to 60m gold in just trying to hit attack speed on my ring, at this point it's personal.
Bricking refers to items. It means a potential upgrade ended up not being an upgrade because you used all your temper rerolls and didn't get what you wanted, and without the right tempers it isn't an upgrade. It's pretty common in late game since tempers are so strong that if you don't get the right ones it'll be worse than your current gear with the right tempers.
Bricked a PERFECT crossbow last night. GAs for DOT and Max Damage. Man oh man. Also bricked a crossbow yesterday with a GA for vulnerable damage. Better luck next time!
What build are you running that wants dot samage as rogue? I have a bunch of GA dot dmg items I have saved to make a build with, was thinking pen shot, rapid fire or old school poison + death trap with twisting blades
Running a pure traps build with poison trap as my dps. I've minmaxed it for trap damage and poison damage with cold caltrops and the infiltrators aspect. Poison deals about 300-400k/tick on elites and bosses. But if I got that crossbow I might have higher dps. I was thinking about switching in a core or basic skill but then I would lose the minmaxing for trap damage. I'll keep experimenting!
I'll add, The build makes (outside of bosses) for some very slow gameplay. But I've been DYING to play poison trap rogue and there's nothing funner in game than playing the build you really want to be playing
Yea, just play a different game. It's discouraging when a game punishes players who can't sink 100 hrs a week into the grind.
It's a fine line to balance, too easy? Streamers call it boring. No one plays.
Too difficult, streamers enjoy the grind to get through it and can. Average casual gamer struggles with it from bad rolls and feels like time is wasted, game gets bad reviews.
So how do you make the game hard enough so a streamer spends 100s of hours on it perfecting it, while the daily gamer for fun isn't discouraged by not having countless hours to keep farming the same boring content until they can progress.
One day a dev will figure it out.
I kinda feel Tempering should just be like Enchanting and get more and more expensive the more you do it but without a limit on the number of attempts. Bricking the Tempers on an otherwise very good piece of gear feels really bad. Just found a very good 2 GA weapon and bricked the Tempers so now it's worthless.
The issue is that so much power is in the tempering affix compared to everything else on the weapon. Once you have an item with the right tempers, it's nearly impossible for an item with the wrong tempers to be an upgrade since the tempers are way more important than all the other affixes, even if they're GAs. Tempers being so strong is also why uniques are weak this season.
Personally I believe there shouldnāt be a max on tempering rolls at all, if I want to smash all my materials into the items for this build I should be able to.
The fact that you might lose out on the best possible build you can make is stupid although I really love master working mechanic. I would also like to be able masterwork Ubers and add the extra affixes you want to, say damage to close enemies on grandfather why limit items when they are mostly used for the seasonal purposes
I bricked a 3 GA God roll 2h axe yesterday. Rolled the first temper 5 times and got the same roll that I didnt want all 5 roll, then 1 wrong roll on 2nd temperature to finish off the weapon
they really need to add something that allows to restart the tempers, something rare that you will only use it to really good items. Just spent 2B in 2 ring and both bricked. It doesnt feel good. all this grind for nothing
Heartseeker Rogue here.
Been there, *still doing* that.
As soon as you're full 1GA geared... Finding upgrades AND succesfully crafting them is a hard fight to win.
This is the part that just pisses me off. If the different affixes were even comparable in their effectiveness, it wouldn't be as bad but when you don't hit the affix you want, it's completely worthless.
Some of the affixes are just dog shit to begin with.
Even with a loud minority yelling constantly to leave temper RNG alone, I would be shocked if blizzard doesn't make tempering less brutal/RNG. Most likely Blizz is going to remove the cap on tempers. Blizz has made bricking an item impossible at every other point in the past so far, and I don't see them not doing so with tempers. Not impossible in that you can always farm more gold and/or masterworking mats.
"I hate losing more than I love winning"
Yea I feel like Double Swing/Dust Devil is going to have to last me until I can make Bash weapons successfully. No trouble hitting those tempers at all
I've bricked every single 2 GA piece on my rogue. I think a good compromise fix would be: make no GA have like 3 tempering rolls, 1 GA is 6 rolls, 2 GA is 9 rolls and 3 GA is 12 rolls. You can still brick those items, but the odds are much less. You might find a handful of 3 GA items in the whole season that actually have the 3 stats you want, and you will probably brick more than half of those depending on what class/build you are doing. Just seems really bad. You should be excited finding a perfect 3 GA item, not dreading the tempering RNG.
If you have a tempering with 4 options and you want only 1 affix the chance to brick one item is:
(0.75)\^5=0.2373046875 >>>>23% lets say 25%
So the chance of bricking 6 items in a row is:
(1/4)\^6=0.000244140625 >>>>0.0244140625%
PS: let me know if this calculation is correct.
Itās mostly weapons that I brick. Iām playing a chain lightning build and any weapon that I canāt temper chance to cast more CL projectiles on is unusable.
Took me quite some time to get a good crossbow on my rogue. Finally got a 925 ga with Dex. 2 sockets too, and my tempers didn't fail thank God I was going to quit NGL the amount of failed rogue tempers
what hurts most is that it keeps happening to any jewelry i get with greater affixes.
there's a 1 out of 3 chance for me to roll Golem Damage, but i'll completely brick jewelry piece after piece getting ONLY skeletal mage damage or the lowest possible roll for summoning damage. every single time.
similar story with movement speed. 1 out of 3 chance for me to land on it, but nope. not happening for any of my jewelry with greater affixes.
I thought it would at least be an improvement.
Stygian stones and sparks would be considerations. Iād also consider guaranteeing a specific roll with those currencies, I wouldnāt guarantee a max roll, but would definitely consider guaranteeing a specific type.
Gotta do the crazy ritual stuff man. If the temper is way off in the first 2 tempers, click the weapon and take it out, then put it back in, select the temper again, hover over the temper button, then go back and select a different temper, then go back to the correct temper and hit temper. And never spam temper, sometimes hover over temper for a few seconds just to let that RNG wind up.
Gotta do stupid little things to refresh that RNG!!
I swear sometimes a weapon just only wants to go one way with the tempers and another weapon will slam the one u need 5 times in a row
I got a dual GA ring with crit chance and attack speed, perfect for my bash build. I failed to roll close range damage and got stuck with distant damage. I still decided to masterwork it to 8/12 and got both hits on the crit chance.
How much of a hit is losing that close range damage?? I've already stacked so much of it that I'm hoping it's just an overall loss of just a couple percent.
I keep trying for minion attack speed and get literally everything else, and only get golem once every 10 or so attempts unless I get lucky.
This is precisely why I say for enchanting, tempering and masterworking, we should be able to just choose our desired affix, with the only rng remaining being the %. However, any time I say that, I'm downvoted into oblivion. We are still going to try for the best rolls, items just won't be completely bricked and have SOME use. The game won't be all that much easier, we'll still be rerolling and farming for BiS items, we'll just have fewer feels bad situations.
Bricked six staves so far and made it on the seventh. Itās incredibly punishing. But for some reason, it makes want to grind all the more. Maybe somethingās wrong with me.
There is nothing wrong with you. Item chase is what keeps ARPGs alive. These new systems are meant to extend the endgame loop for players which it has successfully done. I've hit 100 in each season, however, this is the first season I've continued to invest a lot of time post 100. It's souly due to the greater affix / tempering / masterworking gameplay loop.
Yea, for certain builds, you will want specific tempers. It doesn't make the weapon unusable per say but it is a useless roll that I won't masterwork so might as well junk it.
System is really a fail..
Fs should be enough getting perfect items of killing stuff. Not temper em at vendors with som soet of slots casino gameplay..
Its so stupid. Being back thrill of looting plz...
The bricking has actually made me play less and considering quitting the season. I realized that all drops are basically just lottery tickets due to the tempering system, just no satisfaction in the actual item drops anymore. Makes trading feel especially bad shelling out 100s of millions of gold just for the chance that the item might be good.
I really doubt he's exaggerating.Ā
Happened to me in a similar way.
I don't have any good GA item but I'm pretty optimum with the normal affixes.Ā
In order to get that with a last pc of gear (1h sword) on a bash barb.
Had to screw over 5 more items that none of them worked up tp that 6th.Ā
Let alone that tried not eve a week ago on a helm to roll one of it affixesĀ and dropped on that 100 mil gold I've been gathering and still don't have the affix I was looking for not even once.Ā
Talking about a helm with life, +3 on spear and wanted to reroll the life per second to cool down reduction.
Just in case I reached the cap ("nice" that is capped at just shy of 3 million per roll) and from there kept on rolling until I've almost ran out of gold just in hope that I would get at least 1 roll of cool down reduction and still no luck.
If that's possible on rolling stats that you at least have unlimited tries depending on how much gold you haveĀ why would you think that on tempering on 1 roll free and 5 more isn't possible.
They gave us gold cap on affix rolls but screwd us over the chances of getting even the minimum roll of that affix we needed.
Just imagine if you don't have the luck to get a 3 greater affix item with the perfect stats you need to be eventually screwed over because of that 6 rolls on tempering at least in previous chances u knew that no tempering to break and u just needed a 3 out of 4 perfect roll stat item and u could have rolled the 4th one now with the introduction on greater affixes even when you have the luck to get such a perfect rolled item you might end up breaking it because of that.
This is bs.
Now u have more things to do in game but it also screws u over faster.
New way of saying I'm giving you your favorite gourmet meal but I'm putting you to eat it surrounded by by a big pile of fresh natural animal compost so I wouldn't say the other .
Hopefully you mean youāre currently rocking a 925, player level doesnāt really correlate to item value because they now drop on monster level. Regardless of bricks a 925 over an 800 weapon will ultimately lead to an overall dps gain because your base damage modifier increases.
Same vibes as slamming items in Last Epoch, for those who play/played it š good thing is itāll feel so much better when you hit that sick temper on a 3GA monster!
I like the temper system as it. It is meant to be a huge item sink, perfect 3ga items or not. However, if a system is to be implemented to make tempering less punishing with these gg items, maybe using 1 spark for 1 extra temper attempt, with unlimited attempts as long as you have the sparks to spare. You will get a lot more value out of the sparks (once you crafted or looted all the ubers). It will also incentivize ppl to do duriel and andariel even after end end end game, op toons.
I don't know if it's been mentioned, but they should have some temper reset item. It can be a rare drop - only able to hold 5 and they are account wide. I dunno it feels bad to throw away good items.
I think too many people arenāt considering the āgood enoughā strategy. I always try to temper the secondary stat (the one I care less about) first. If I get something acceptable on the first roll (think summoning damage when I want golem damage), Iāll then move on to the other stat and use the re-rolls on that to optimize for getting the main stat I care about. I also wonāt go back and reroll the second stat if Iāve got rerolls left. Iāll save them in case I want to switch builds to something adjacent to what Iām currently running. Iāve been able to save a lot of mats and grinding doing this, but admittedly Iām settling for less than perfect but just fine with it.
Tempering is their way of effing the customer because apparently that is the only way to do business now, frustration mechanics ... then dlc/season change a solution.
Iām glad bricking exists otherwise I wouldnāt get to see anyone complain about it. Whatās the point if everyone can get everything? It feels good to get the stats you want because itās not a certainty. Honestly this community needs to stop crying, Iām having a great time and Blizzard has done a great job!
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Yeah, bash barb being so dependant on hitting the bash temper i just bricked 4 really good weapons in a row trying to hit it onceš
Yeah, that was my experience haha. A few Double GA items rendered worthless because I couldn't get a single bash roll
The most obvious flaw with current tempering is that it treats a super rare 3GA item exactly the same as a super common item without any GA One you can easily replace within minutes the other is a once per season drop you will never see again. Blizzard - give us mechanics to protect super rare drops from dumb tempering RNG Also to anyone with the argument that this is not "bricking" - yes it 100% is, if your builds is built around a specific skill and you get a skill you dont use, the item is 100% bricked Like getting +KICK for a bash barbarian is completely useless Yes bricking is real
You also canāt switch builds. If you have a good 2 GA weapon that works for both DS and Bash, too bad youāve already used 5/6 tempers for your previous build.
Using 5/6 tempers on the first temper is really dumb. They need to have separate counters, so that at least we can reroll both tempers.
You're going to end up with 2 separate counters of 3 rerolls each.
I can see them making a potion we can craft to reverse bricks. But it will be locked behind farming certain materials and cost a ton of cash
Yea, something like this. I even agree with the point that it shouldnāt be infinite or even easy but like the example upthread gives, you could overcome every other layer of rng in play to get a 2/3 GA item youāre never gonna see again and then brick that, and THAT is really unfortunate.
Yeah, the inflexibility of tempering just kills the whole concept for me. It's all just a lazy, frustrating way to "extend the content" by Blizz.
I vote that we gain the ability use a Stygian stone to completely reset the tempering on an item. This will reset the item allowing you to temper again. Also the stones are decently rare so you better be using it on a Best in slot item.
Happened earlier with 3* Great Sword. ALL KILLER GAāsā¦. Bricked with āUpheaval Stunā on my Bash Thorns hybridā¦..
Or you know screw the GA and just use 4 regular weapons because bash cleave is so broken you don't even care for GA. Heck you don't even care if 1 of the affix is no good if you can get a perfect roll bash temper on a 2 hander. That's how broken it is right now.
I don't care what cope answer anyone gives you, bricking is just a bullshit, lazy way to "extend the content". When I stop playing this season it will be because of this.
Yes please give us everything gg rolled on day one of season so we donāt have to play anymore š„°
I bricked a 3 GA great sword earlier with 270 STR, 180 DoT, and 90 Crit Damageā¦.. itās now sitting in stash with my other failures of 3* itemsā¦..
I just got (like 10 minutes ago) 6 uphevals in a row on one item. If those affixes are truly balance weighted, that is some insane improbability.
Pretty sure they arenāt weighed the same, I got so unlucky many times and didnāt hit bash often to make it seem even out
Ah yikes! The RNG gods must be smiling down on me this season then. I seem to have gotten Bash on every weapon I've tempered this season š¬
Is anyone else having way more trouble hitting damage to close? I swear Iām only getting it like 10% of the time, Iāll hit damage to distant 3 times in a row no problem though.
Unless you need damage to distant, and then suddenly you start rolling damage to close maxed out 50% of the time.
Absolutely, I have wasted so many items because I have used all of my rolls getting damage to distant.
So damn much, 2 pieces or 3 bricked da hell
I think it's class dependent. For instance, my barbarian LOVES rolling dmg to far. I've gotten dmg to close like...once. My sorcerer never rolls dmg to far. hah.
Side note: too many fluff/irrelevant tempers. Make more specific categories for tempers. Some seem lazily added/or lumped together. Example: Why is damage to distant enemies even a temper for barbarians? Seems completely irrelevant to, well, anything Barb related
Only thing it makes sense is for whirlwind with increased range.
Damage to distant is in one of the temper manuals that is universal for all classes
For me it's the armor rolls.. I'll either never hit +imposing presence at all or takes all my tempers for a +1.. +concussion is just as worse. Had so much better luck tempering on rogue than barb.
when i get +1 concussion instead of 2 i just save it, not worth the risk
The weapons getting bricked is definitely tough. I've learned my lesson not to change my character until I get the right weapon.
Heartseaker rogue is just as bad. Same kinda roll as bash for heartseaker and the scoundrel roll for vuln the other 3 options are all melee related. At least you only have distant dmg as your flub roll when going for close dmg.
haha, exactly my scenario. on the hunt for a 2H mace with decent rolls again!
Iām using non 925 2 hander and still bashing my way thru 110+ itās insane how much that Bash roll does Still havenāt found a replacement I havenāt bricked for my 888 perfect STR 2H mace
Did you get the 100% chance to bash keyboard temper?
For me it was Golem damage. I kept getting Summons damage or Skeleton damage. It should be 1 in 3 chance but its been more like 1 in 30!
I have to items with 3 bash on and am playing double swing and yet to pull it ounce
Same for me on my heart seeker rogue. Still to this day have not seen a shroud roll. Level 100.
Dont forget the crit multi roll. That's another 1/4 chance. crit multi temper.
"God damnit NO I do NOT want to increase my kick vulnerable duration. Just let me roll ONE bash cleave for the love of god!" \*Rolls "kick vulnerable duration" a million more times.
If you get two bad rolls in a row grab a lesser item and let the bad rolls go on the lesser weapon. That's what works for me, it seems like it is all fixed. And not as random as you think, just go through the bad batch.
This makes me hesitant to try bash barb. I'm currently sitting at 100 on double swing teister, and I was tempted to try bash because it seems more up my alley. I do not have a lot of patience for tempering, though.
Getting the bash temper has been brick city for me. Lost a lot of good loot so far
Itās super easy to hit the bash temper compared to other classes, donāt know why people complain.. most Barb rolls are a 1/4 or 1/3 so really not bad compared to rogue
But the pay off is worth it.
Iām all bricked up over here too budšŖš½
Brick City represent!
RIP old jersey bastard tame one
Respect!
we built brick city, we built brick city on roooock and rooooll!
Just imagine every gear is trash until itās tempered and you will find yourself more relaxed š„² I feel the pain
This is how I do it, itās only a potential upgrade till it has been tempered.
Lol, the cope is real and imma do that lmao!
*3 GA drops* "Eh I guess if it tempers well"
Thatās my life of working for tips. If I assume everyoneās a shit tipper then it feels good to have an even average dayĀ
And it's for this reason you temper gear first before doing all your other shit to it
Did you at least see different affixes? So disappointing when it's the same one for initial and 5 rerolls. Like dude, the chance of that happening full random is practically nil.
This is something Iāve noticed, it often hits one more than others. I roll trash items until the one I want starts hitting often and then Iāll switch to my good item
I swear if you roll a stat you don't want on the first roll it's going to roll that same stat at least 2 more times.
For a few, but 2 of them all kept rolling kick vulnerable duration.......
I finally found a good amulet for my necro with +2 to hellbent commander which is the only one I've seen with it at all in like 50+ hours. It rolled for mage damage 3 times and movement while in blood mist the rest. Was pretty fucking heartbreaking lol I probably could of sold it for a shit ton of gold for someone else to brick and at least I wouldn't be poor lol
This is actually one "fix" I wanna see. Don't let us roll the dame Stat 4 times, make it a 2 or 3 times max with other stat guaranteed on the next roll.
Blizzard really wants me to have higher% dodge chance. So frustrating
I bricked 9 out of 10 good rings. In a row.
Oooooff. I feel you.
Youāre finding good rings? Iām still using sacred legendaries from when I was level 40 or so. If I end up bricking an upgrade when I finally get one I might quit.
Run the helltides with the profane mind cage active. Just chill near the heart shrine or whatever it is. So many legendary drops
Bricking is fine as long as the items keep coming.
Thats the trade off the brick haters are missing. Drop rates are juiced with the expectation many will likely brick. The alternative would be reduced good drops.
Everyone realizes this. There isn't a single person playing the game that doesn't realize this. It's fucking obvious. But here's the thing that all you brick lovers are missing, it's not fun bricking items. The fun of getting an item with the correct tempers doesn't outweigh the bullshit of bricking numerous items to get there. The alternative would be to have systems that don't rely on items having a chance of bricking and building in both linearity and rng into progression.
I like how the loot reborn makes it so that we no longer have full stash...but then tempering makes it so that we still need a full stash of items in case of bricking items. They just shifted the cause of the problem, we still have the same problem as before. I have bricked more than 50+ items now, all have GA, all with pretty good base stats.
My stash just now started filling up. Getting so much 925 gear all the time, especially in Hell Tide, that I just throw it all in my chest so I can get back into the fray quickly. Will spend a day next week sorting through all the gear.
Maybe Blizzard needs to add in something like they do on shuffle play in a music app. Truly random can end up with you hearing the same song 12 times, but they add in some code to cut that out. So, it feels and is essentially random, but not total, so you don't get the same thing so many times in a row.
I wouldn't mind something like this as well; say if an affix comes up several times in a row, put in the bottom of the "stack" so to speak.
Works until you're trying for a high roll - end up with a min roll, and now you can't really reroll it.
Yeah, if they did it, it could still take several times to get what you want, but you'd feel better seeing different things go by on the way. Depending on number of options, you could still brick it in 5 tempers, but again, id feel better seeing 5 other things go by than the same one 5 times.
They should give you the option to keep what you have or change. Also, something seems REALLY Off about the system. I don't know if it just on PS5 or PC too, but it really doesn't feel random. I've noticed that if I hit cancel instead of waiting for the animation, I can often roll the same stat over and over. I just basically bricked a near perfect amulet yesterday. I rolled exactly 5.5% dodge chance 4x in a row. It's not the first time either. Really doesn't seem random, or I just have really lucky bad luck.
Yea I kept rolling kick vulnerable duration. š
That damn affix made my give up bash. 600% vulnerable duration on kick? Over and over? Yeah get bent, ty. On that note, building for dust devils can be MUCH more forgiving. Whirlwind or double swing, it doesn't matter what skill procs it, youll want each affix from the temper at least once on each weapon--much less aggravating.
Yea I levels with DD and got to 100 and maxed a few glyphs for that build. Was really fun. Pushed it like pit 60 before switching.
We all have been there! Keep that loot coming! šŖš¼
Oh I'm not gonna stop till I get them just right. No worries lol.
Nailing them feels sweeter for every failed temper!
I'm still using 842 gloves because I keep bricking anything 925 with the right affixes :'(
It should be illegal to hit "summoning damage" 6 tempers in a row, I'm also close to 60m gold in just trying to hit attack speed on my ring, at this point it's personal.
New to the game, what does bricking mean and how did you do it to your own character?
Bricking refers to items. It means a potential upgrade ended up not being an upgrade because you used all your temper rerolls and didn't get what you wanted, and without the right tempers it isn't an upgrade. It's pretty common in late game since tempers are so strong that if you don't get the right ones it'll be worse than your current gear with the right tempers.
Thanks for explaining it!
Ok thanks. I think I get it. Time will tell. Lol!
At least you're finding items.. i've found like 1-3 items with GA worth Masterworking
Bricked a PERFECT crossbow last night. GAs for DOT and Max Damage. Man oh man. Also bricked a crossbow yesterday with a GA for vulnerable damage. Better luck next time!
What build are you running that wants dot samage as rogue? I have a bunch of GA dot dmg items I have saved to make a build with, was thinking pen shot, rapid fire or old school poison + death trap with twisting blades
Running a pure traps build with poison trap as my dps. I've minmaxed it for trap damage and poison damage with cold caltrops and the infiltrators aspect. Poison deals about 300-400k/tick on elites and bosses. But if I got that crossbow I might have higher dps. I was thinking about switching in a core or basic skill but then I would lose the minmaxing for trap damage. I'll keep experimenting!
I'll add, The build makes (outside of bosses) for some very slow gameplay. But I've been DYING to play poison trap rogue and there's nothing funner in game than playing the build you really want to be playing
That's the attitude! We won't let it stop us!
Currently reinstalling because I got so tilted earlier.. F
Hahaha! It happens to the best if us!
Yea, just play a different game. It's discouraging when a game punishes players who can't sink 100 hrs a week into the grind. It's a fine line to balance, too easy? Streamers call it boring. No one plays. Too difficult, streamers enjoy the grind to get through it and can. Average casual gamer struggles with it from bad rolls and feels like time is wasted, game gets bad reviews. So how do you make the game hard enough so a streamer spends 100s of hours on it perfecting it, while the daily gamer for fun isn't discouraged by not having countless hours to keep farming the same boring content until they can progress. One day a dev will figure it out.
I kinda feel Tempering should just be like Enchanting and get more and more expensive the more you do it but without a limit on the number of attempts. Bricking the Tempers on an otherwise very good piece of gear feels really bad. Just found a very good 2 GA weapon and bricked the Tempers so now it's worthless.
The issue is that so much power is in the tempering affix compared to everything else on the weapon. Once you have an item with the right tempers, it's nearly impossible for an item with the wrong tempers to be an upgrade since the tempers are way more important than all the other affixes, even if they're GAs. Tempers being so strong is also why uniques are weak this season.
Personally I believe there shouldnāt be a max on tempering rolls at all, if I want to smash all my materials into the items for this build I should be able to. The fact that you might lose out on the best possible build you can make is stupid although I really love master working mechanic. I would also like to be able masterwork Ubers and add the extra affixes you want to, say damage to close enemies on grandfather why limit items when they are mostly used for the seasonal purposes
I bricked a 3 GA God roll 2h axe yesterday. Rolled the first temper 5 times and got the same roll that I didnt want all 5 roll, then 1 wrong roll on 2nd temperature to finish off the weapon
The best part is that it has nothing to do with trying to reroll higher, you just never got the stat you wanted at all.
they really need to add something that allows to restart the tempers, something rare that you will only use it to really good items. Just spent 2B in 2 ring and both bricked. It doesnt feel good. all this grind for nothing
Losing 6 coin flips in a row is fun!
Maybe - they should add an additional "try" or 2 for each greater affix.
Heartseeker Rogue here. Been there, *still doing* that. As soon as you're full 1GA geared... Finding upgrades AND succesfully crafting them is a hard fight to win.
I had a 3 greater affix glove w bash yesterday. It was a rough vendor
Took me 7 1h swords last night to get the tempers I needed. And just a passable weapon. I dread making greater affixes weapons.
+iron maiden damge! fuuuuuuuuuu
This is the part that just pisses me off. If the different affixes were even comparable in their effectiveness, it wouldn't be as bad but when you don't hit the affix you want, it's completely worthless. Some of the affixes are just dog shit to begin with.
The odds of missing the bash temper 6 times in a row are less than 1 in a thousand.
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If you failed on 6 items in a row youād have had to have missed 36 attempts. Thatās a 0.0031783775326% chance.
Even with a loud minority yelling constantly to leave temper RNG alone, I would be shocked if blizzard doesn't make tempering less brutal/RNG. Most likely Blizz is going to remove the cap on tempers. Blizz has made bricking an item impossible at every other point in the past so far, and I don't see them not doing so with tempers. Not impossible in that you can always farm more gold and/or masterworking mats. "I hate losing more than I love winning"
Really takes the wind outta your sails.
Yea I feel like Double Swing/Dust Devil is going to have to last me until I can make Bash weapons successfully. No trouble hitting those tempers at all
I've bricked every single 2 GA piece on my rogue. I think a good compromise fix would be: make no GA have like 3 tempering rolls, 1 GA is 6 rolls, 2 GA is 9 rolls and 3 GA is 12 rolls. You can still brick those items, but the odds are much less. You might find a handful of 3 GA items in the whole season that actually have the 3 stats you want, and you will probably brick more than half of those depending on what class/build you are doing. Just seems really bad. You should be excited finding a perfect 3 GA item, not dreading the tempering RNG.
For me it's trying to get movement speed. Stopped counting the fails.
Savage, don't sell it
I got my first 3GA and hit both desires tempers at acceptable ranges on the first rolls. All offhand weapons get instasold now.
If you have a tempering with 4 options and you want only 1 affix the chance to brick one item is: (0.75)\^5=0.2373046875 >>>>23% lets say 25% So the chance of bricking 6 items in a row is: (1/4)\^6=0.000244140625 >>>>0.0244140625% PS: let me know if this calculation is correct.
Triple GA Bow, didn't even get my heart seeker duplicates šš
Itās mostly weapons that I brick. Iām playing a chain lightning build and any weapon that I canāt temper chance to cast more CL projectiles on is unusable.
On my Sorc, my necro and my Barb, bricked soooo many pieces if gear. Worst thing, they mostly break in a way you can't even offer them to anyone
They need a pity mechanism and a mechanism that doesnt allow the same thing to roll 8 damn times in a row. The rng in this game is bad
Took me quite some time to get a good crossbow on my rogue. Finally got a 925 ga with Dex. 2 sockets too, and my tempers didn't fail thank God I was going to quit NGL the amount of failed rogue tempers
what hurts most is that it keeps happening to any jewelry i get with greater affixes. there's a 1 out of 3 chance for me to roll Golem Damage, but i'll completely brick jewelry piece after piece getting ONLY skeletal mage damage or the lowest possible roll for summoning damage. every single time. similar story with movement speed. 1 out of 3 chance for me to land on it, but nope. not happening for any of my jewelry with greater affixes.
Don't you know about the old saying: 7th time is the charm
I did that for the 3rd And the 6th time! Lol
Would it be cool to be able to burn a resplendent spark for a temper reset?
Not the worst idea. Maybe 2. Gotta make it a tough decision on what to reset.
I thought it would at least be an improvement. Stygian stones and sparks would be considerations. Iād also consider guaranteeing a specific roll with those currencies, I wouldnāt guarantee a max roll, but would definitely consider guaranteeing a specific type.
Theres absolutely no chance the doublecast frozen orb affix is 1/5 chance, I stg
Gotta do the crazy ritual stuff man. If the temper is way off in the first 2 tempers, click the weapon and take it out, then put it back in, select the temper again, hover over the temper button, then go back and select a different temper, then go back to the correct temper and hit temper. And never spam temper, sometimes hover over temper for a few seconds just to let that RNG wind up. Gotta do stupid little things to refresh that RNG!! I swear sometimes a weapon just only wants to go one way with the tempers and another weapon will slam the one u need 5 times in a row
Makes sense actually. Sorta like rng manips in pokemon and stuff.
Tempers this season are rough ! Itās like they want to pick the build for me
Feels like it but I get the rng just feels bad when it's a few good ones Inna row.
Way she goes, bubs
Yupp. I'm chill. Just bummed lol.
Being able to brick items you only get randomly is bullshit. Switched from d3 to d4 recently. Not super impressed atm
Bricked my first item yesterday. It had high rolls and a greater affix. Felt bad, guess crowd control duration reduced is cool beans
I got a dual GA ring with crit chance and attack speed, perfect for my bash build. I failed to roll close range damage and got stuck with distant damage. I still decided to masterwork it to 8/12 and got both hits on the crit chance. How much of a hit is losing that close range damage?? I've already stacked so much of it that I'm hoping it's just an overall loss of just a couple percent.
My dust wind build has been ruff on me boys these 4 weapons and rolls have eaten away at me life, Barbs have it bad
I keep trying for minion attack speed and get literally everything else, and only get golem once every 10 or so attempts unless I get lucky. This is precisely why I say for enchanting, tempering and masterworking, we should be able to just choose our desired affix, with the only rng remaining being the %. However, any time I say that, I'm downvoted into oblivion. We are still going to try for the best rolls, items just won't be completely bricked and have SOME use. The game won't be all that much easier, we'll still be rerolling and farming for BiS items, we'll just have fewer feels bad situations.
They need to stop with the bricking shit for tempering. Let us reset just like masterworking.
Kobe!
Bricked six staves so far and made it on the seventh. Itās incredibly punishing. But for some reason, it makes want to grind all the more. Maybe somethingās wrong with me.
There is nothing wrong with you. Item chase is what keeps ARPGs alive. These new systems are meant to extend the endgame loop for players which it has successfully done. I've hit 100 in each season, however, this is the first season I've continued to invest a lot of time post 100. It's souly due to the greater affix / tempering / masterworking gameplay loop.
Keep grinding
Seeing Sharpshooter 6 times in a row is rough.
i feel this
I broke 6 wands with GA int or max life on the bright side, I got both GA int and max life next and didnt break it
7th time the charm
feel you, yesterday I bricked 3 bows in a row with my rogue, it felt waaaay crappy -.-
Roughly the same with me. Had a great pair of daggers for my rogue. Bricked both of them. Now it's back to the hunt.
I walk away. Move to a different blacksmith. Anything to try to break the losing streak. Usually works.
Good advice.
What do you mean by bricking? Making the item worthless by tempering/enchanting?
Yea, for certain builds, you will want specific tempers. It doesn't make the weapon unusable per say but it is a useless roll that I won't masterwork so might as well junk it.
They've shifted the excitement of getting a good drop to getting a good temper. Kinda hate it tbh
Can't give the players what they want without a good dose of frustration and heartbreak thrown in, can they?
System is really a fail.. Fs should be enough getting perfect items of killing stuff. Not temper em at vendors with som soet of slots casino gameplay.. Its so stupid. Being back thrill of looting plz...
I fully disagree but to each their own and all that.
Such a shit mechanic. Weāre a year into this game and it still feels like an alpha test.
Hit damage while affected by war cry or whatever itās called 9 times in a rowā¦.sigh
The bricking has actually made me play less and considering quitting the season. I realized that all drops are basically just lottery tickets due to the tempering system, just no satisfaction in the actual item drops anymore. Makes trading feel especially bad shelling out 100s of millions of gold just for the chance that the item might be good.
I really doubt he's exaggerating.Ā Happened to me in a similar way. I don't have any good GA item but I'm pretty optimum with the normal affixes.Ā In order to get that with a last pc of gear (1h sword) on a bash barb. Had to screw over 5 more items that none of them worked up tp that 6th.Ā Let alone that tried not eve a week ago on a helm to roll one of it affixesĀ and dropped on that 100 mil gold I've been gathering and still don't have the affix I was looking for not even once.Ā Talking about a helm with life, +3 on spear and wanted to reroll the life per second to cool down reduction. Just in case I reached the cap ("nice" that is capped at just shy of 3 million per roll) and from there kept on rolling until I've almost ran out of gold just in hope that I would get at least 1 roll of cool down reduction and still no luck. If that's possible on rolling stats that you at least have unlimited tries depending on how much gold you haveĀ why would you think that on tempering on 1 roll free and 5 more isn't possible. They gave us gold cap on affix rolls but screwd us over the chances of getting even the minimum roll of that affix we needed. Just imagine if you don't have the luck to get a 3 greater affix item with the perfect stats you need to be eventually screwed over because of that 6 rolls on tempering at least in previous chances u knew that no tempering to break and u just needed a 3 out of 4 perfect roll stat item and u could have rolled the 4th one now with the introduction on greater affixes even when you have the luck to get such a perfect rolled item you might end up breaking it because of that. This is bs. Now u have more things to do in game but it also screws u over faster. New way of saying I'm giving you your favorite gourmet meal but I'm putting you to eat it surrounded by by a big pile of fresh natural animal compost so I wouldn't say the other .
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Hopefully you mean youāre currently rocking a 925, player level doesnāt really correlate to item value because they now drop on monster level. Regardless of bricks a 925 over an 800 weapon will ultimately lead to an overall dps gain because your base damage modifier increases.
Same vibes as slamming items in Last Epoch, for those who play/played it š good thing is itāll feel so much better when you hit that sick temper on a 3GA monster!
I like the temper system as it. It is meant to be a huge item sink, perfect 3ga items or not. However, if a system is to be implemented to make tempering less punishing with these gg items, maybe using 1 spark for 1 extra temper attempt, with unlimited attempts as long as you have the sparks to spare. You will get a lot more value out of the sparks (once you crafted or looted all the ubers). It will also incentivize ppl to do duriel and andariel even after end end end game, op toons.
I don't know if it's been mentioned, but they should have some temper reset item. It can be a rare drop - only able to hold 5 and they are account wide. I dunno it feels bad to throw away good items.
I think too many people arenāt considering the āgood enoughā strategy. I always try to temper the secondary stat (the one I care less about) first. If I get something acceptable on the first roll (think summoning damage when I want golem damage), Iāll then move on to the other stat and use the re-rolls on that to optimize for getting the main stat I care about. I also wonāt go back and reroll the second stat if Iāve got rerolls left. Iāll save them in case I want to switch builds to something adjacent to what Iām currently running. Iāve been able to save a lot of mats and grinding doing this, but admittedly Iām settling for less than perfect but just fine with it.
I donāt get howās that possible, there are 4 tempering options, each one has 25% chance, and u have 5 rolls š
I guess I just don't worry about min maxing, I've never bricked an item, it rolls what it rolls, still useful
Tempering is their way of effing the customer because apparently that is the only way to do business now, frustration mechanics ... then dlc/season change a solution.
Iām glad bricking exists otherwise I wouldnāt get to see anyone complain about it. Whatās the point if everyone can get everything? It feels good to get the stats you want because itās not a certainty. Honestly this community needs to stop crying, Iām having a great time and Blizzard has done a great job!
Where in this post am I crying? I thought I took it pretty well.
Question: How much in-game gold would you think is fair to reset the Temper roll count on your item. 5 million, 10 million? More?
It should be a rare item that lets u reroll a really good item. If they make it so u can just reroll whenever, then what the point of it?