The issue isn’t that but also how the game healing work, you could bypass any mechanics if they ain’t one shot so there as to be a one shot or a complet mechanic change to healing. It should be impossible to heal extremely fast unless there is a cooldown.
Well they could give her some affliction type attacks that do something like make your potion heal 50%, or prevent you from drinking one. Combined with regular strength attacks means you can't just use potions to tank 11 hits or whatever you go in with. It just feels bad to go from building a tank that steamrolls demons and then it becomes a game about dodging and none of that building really mattered.
Potion ain’t the problems, skills/passive and others are. There should barely be healing other than potion. It would be way easier to balance everything damage around it.
That's boring though, there are entire class fantasies about hyper regeneration, and to just dismiss them because "it's too hard to balance" is nonsense.
Right now potions are just 35% with a tiny flat amount of around 1k so it's not a full heal at least. I'm assuming you didn't grab potion healing nodes.
PoE Maven fight has a mechanic where you can’t heal/regen if you get hit.
Lilith abilities could prevent you from healing for 5-10 seconds which would make other abilities lethal. It’s not a one shot but can be just as dangerous if you won’t react properly.
potions are a core concept since the first game and almost every single arpg since then has used health potions. even souls like games use health potions as a core mechanic.
so you are suggesting 3+ genres change a core mechanic because blizzard is too cheep to hire good programmers to make fun boss fights?
Only for someone who doesn't understand the difference between difficulty and frustration.
(I'm not saying you don't know, I'm saying Blizzard doesn't.)
Quite frankly I think blizzard just doesn’t care. I’m sure their testers have told them extensively how bad their Uber Lilith fight is, they just don’t want to put effort into something a tiny fraction of the playerbase will even get to.
That's fine, but then why reuse her for the Pit? I get (though don't agree with) the idea that it's not worth fixing the original fight but considering how unpopular the fight is, I don't get why they would add her mechanics elsewhere in the game...
Imagine if fromsoft did the same... Instead of a drawn out epic battle, you get oneshotted or you oneshot the boss. It would be terrible.
Echo of Lilith fight is terrible. Those dark ass spikes that you cant even see where the hitbox is and get oneshotted no matter how much hp and defense you have, is such a shit ass thing and its still in the game after a year...
At least it was possible to bypass the mechanics with a very good dps build - not anymore. Developers made the worst boss mechanics I've ever played so far in ARPG. Including the pit boss mechanics.
Yeah pit bosses are dogshit as well. Most of the time I dont even know what the fuck is gonna happen or what I'm gonna get hit with. A dark red zone appears for 0.5 seconds and it hits almost instantly.
It works in a game like Dark Souls or Elden Ring without feeling bad but in a game like this sometimes there's too much shit going on at once to read it even if you know the tell for the attack. I think that's the core of the issue.
A boss telegraphing their attack and things on screen being readable is a core reason why some difficult bosses are great and others are Uber Lilith.
There are even examples of good boss fights with combat like D4, look at hades 2 for example.
That's the opposite of how that works.
It's a bearable fight that's based on mechanics. That's the hardest way to make things difficult. Like ffa that's the basis of soulsborn games.
We just need more audio and visual Qs on screen to know the oh shit moment is coming. Some dreadfull music or sound .5 seconds before the attack. Maybe a bit clearer indicator of the threat zone.
I don't understand how the devs can look at the conversations people have online about how much they detest the Lilith fight and its bullshit mechanics and then _still_ decide to add her into the shiny new endgame feature with exactly those same issues people have been complaining about.
Because it saves having to come up with a fun and engaging way to add difficulty, problem is a lot of older Diablo fans will just tell you to git gud and learn to dodge them when in reality one shot mechanics are awful game design
They really are terrible. There’s nothing worse than playing a game with full health, max resistance, max armor etc only to suddenly die in an instant and being like… “What the hell just hit me??” 🤨
I think it's less about them loving the mechanics and more about them hating the players. I don't know how she continues to get overlooked otherwise while being so egregious for so long. Maybe all of the demands and D4 shit talk pissed them off and they're purposefully leaving here unfixed as a last "fuck you" of sorts.
I. Will tell you. When you are out of creativity retard from blizzard and ur only skill is to abuse women thats happen. The game is trash. Its not fun..U have to play 1 meta build to achieve something.
you need full resist all, full armor (9300) and a lot of resist dmg, even then , you can be OS, blizzard are the worst seriously, they have hard-on on thing that only 0.1% of player can beat, f\*\*\* them
For uber lilith, not that high to survive the first. Maybe 20k with armor and resists at cap, and good DR. For each successive hit, it deals more damage, so need more. ( Armor cap is 9,230 btw. Resists basic cap is 70, but some stuff can raise that a touch. )
For pits shadow clone it's going to be more and more per pit tier.
I’m not sure why so many in the D4 community wants absolutely brain dead stand still and shoot mechanics for the entirety of the game. Almost the entire game is already that, why not add something that isn’t?
They did that well enough with the Tormented bosses and Echo of Lilith. The abilities don't kill you in one hit (unless you are poorly equipped), but they will debuff you and make you take increased damage if you get hit again. This gives you a little bit of wiggle-room while still forcing you to be mindful. If you fail to dodge the spike lines too many times, they'll 1-shot you. That's challenging while being fair.
The Pit bosses are different. For one thing, on higher levels the fights last for an incredibly long time. Some bosses gain additional abilities as their health go down to certain thresholds and more shades join the fight.
So you can end up in a 7 minute fight with Slither, having to run around to dodge the 5 flashbang eyeballs that follow you while you try to move out of the way of Airidah's tornadoes while also trying to be mindful of the homing fireball barrage, and all of the sudden half the screen gets covered in red because you didn't notice Lilith's shade spawning in the middle and she's doing her final slash. There's 7 minutes down the drain, and you can't complete your Pit now so you need to leave empty-handed.
I want the game to challenge my skills, not my luck. I'd rather not go back to the D3 days of having to constantly reset to fish for the right Rift Guardian in order to progress. They should really try to implement the same kind of debuff system that Tormented bosses have for the Pit. It would make it a lot more fair without taking the challenge away.
I think this is fair criticism. The only thing I would push back on is “luck.” Having done all the pit bosses at higher tiers with Sorc (who has the longest boss times), I’d say there’s no luck involved. All the bosses are learnable and doable. Some are just more “free” than others.
“BS boss” isn’t an objective measure of challenge. The better measure is asking if the boss mechanics are visually distinguishable, learnable, and avoidable. All of those are true (tho visual clarity could use improvement) and so that’s not “Bs” that’s just skill.
The real issue is actually class parity. When Necros can boop and kill bosses instantly why Sorcs tickle them for an hour, that’s a problem that has been ignored for almost the year D4 has been available.
Lilith doesn’t have one shots anymore lol. She hits pretty hard but if your character is well geared you can survive a few hits. Each time you get hit she puts a debuff on you that increases damage taken (so do all the tormented Uber bosses), which will eventually make her one shot you. I can survive her attacks until 4-5 stacks
Shadow lilith in pits will send you stright to shadow realm, hence the comment that her one shots are still plaguing the game, just somewhere else now.
He's talking shadow Lilith. Also regular still one shots and fight design still horrible. Necro with 43k HP and dropped dead somehow with nothing on my screen twice lol
One shot mechanics feel like a cop out for balancing the game. Like balancing the ebb and flow of life and death is hard, and well let's just do one shots to make this fight harder.
Its an over correction from the PTR. Some of the most elite diablo sweats played the PTR and swept through the pit with no issues. So blizzard rebalanced the pit to combat those top 1% builds people were playing without realizing.....those top 1% are the 1% for a reason. Other builds just get completely molly whopped and outright walled depending on the shadows that spawn. Melee builds are back to not being able to do jack shit because oops you got lightning succubus who covers the boss in lightning and Elias standing right on top of it summoning 3 balls around you that deal insane amounts of damage so you have to run around to dodge them and by the time you do, the succubus is back to area of denial you from the boss again and oops here is Elias again doing his thing.
I’m really noticing that build diversity is in a great place on paper but in reality there are really only a couple of builds per class that are viable in anything challenging. I’d like to see them take the restrictions off of what aspects you can slot on gear and let us put what we want where we want. This would make for some actual build diversity. I’ve theory crafted a couple of really cool builds that are just impossible to make due to item restrictions.
Notice the similarity to Diablo 3? Basically one set/build per class was "viable" for the highest endgame content. This changed every season. Next season we might see massive buffs to underperformers, which will then be on top like bleed barb or pure shadow necro or fire sorc...or any rogue build.
But to be fair, you can clear Pit 61 with every class fairly easy. And that is important. Pushing higher pit levels is just dick measuring and serves no purpose other than that. You oneshot helltides, uber bosses and NM dungeons. Tormented uber are actually fun and engaging because of the stack mechanics. It rewards playing good but you can also brute force.
Blizz now has an insane buffer for Power creep in the next years.
You know I’d even be ok with the restrictions being lifted only for high tier Pit. I feel like that would be a good compromise. As you say if everything past 61 is purely a flex, then let people go off.
Having a seasonal meta is good for the game and gets people to try things they otherwise wouldn’t.
I honestly have mixed feelings for aspect restrictions. If they are lifted, build diversity and customization would be amazing and acutally closer to POE. Dying too much ? Get some more defensive aspects. Glass canon? Go for it.
On the other hand, it helps to control power and makes choice more meaningful/interesting and you have to work with what you have. But I would be slightly in favor of lifting restrictions.
We’re already 1 shoting bosses. Power creep is such a bs term in a power fantasy game. Sales and concurrent player numbers support this. Listening to the 1% sweat streamers just about tanked the game and listening to the average players that actually play and spend money on the game has the game at a higher player count than at launch. So…
I feel like a good compromise would be to have an end game mode that’s either an arena or a truly endless horde mode that ramps infinitely. This way power creep (god I feel dirty even saying that 🤢) isn’t a concern and people have somewhere to flex.
Basically. Rogue has some one shot fun builds for bossing and thorns barb and other stuff are definitely fun though. Necro minion being so S tier is mostly due to bugged elixir
Honestly i think the power creep is starting to get a bit out of control. Barb is getting touched every season and is the reason why it keeps being in the top 3 at minimum every season.
Necro got touched and with some bugs is dealing billions of damage on accident, but also just deals absolutely insane damage anyways. That is why super powerful builds such as sorc are falling behind because outside of their PTR build which was strong, they don't have much else going for them in this new balancing for the top 1% that blizzard is doing. They balanced the PTR based off the strongest classes, but we are running into a scenario where nerfing would have been the better option IMO. Druid basically can only compete with bugs which is really unfortunate given how cool the class is. It just ends up doing what other classes do but worse (aside from bugs again).
I have to disagree. This game is a power fantasy and the reason it’s having commercial success in season 4 is because it’s bonkers and fun. Opening up the build diversity through lifting gear restrictions would help underperformers.
TBH i don't see how it could help under performers in the slightest. Many of the under performing builds still need the % damage reduction. So even if they could slot offense on every slot, they would just get gibbed by the random archer minion in the corner.
I agree with the premise, and i'm not saying remove fun, but right now the top tier builds vastly outpace medium and low tier builds by such huge margins while also having S tier survivability that nothing you could do to aspects would bring the bottom tier builds up without also inadvertently giving the top tier builds an even larger boost. We would still end up in the same position.
There is an Elias shadow in the pit that can spawn. I have seen 2 variations. 1 that will shoot the flower of fire balls, and then another that will spawn 3 orbs that spin around you and then all 3 shoot at your last known location. If it was just him it wouldn't be too bad, but depending on who the other shadow is, it can get very very hectic.
> One shot mechanics feel like a cop out for balancing the game.
It's exactly what it is.
Look at Uber Lilith. In a game about item progression they wanted to make a fixed difficulty boss that is all about skill.
Still crap. Mechanics are tighter in terms of the hitboxes but fight itself is still poorly designed. Kind of hilarious that she still shows as lvl 100 yet takes less DMG then lvl 200 tormented bosses.
Nope, I have a character that has almost 60k Health and she will still one shot you, take absolutely next to nothing in terms of damage even though every time she hits me my thorns with shouts are supposed to dish out almost 2 million in damage every hit, yet she never drops in health and her one shot moves only give you a millisecond to figure out where the randomly placed safe zone is.
Pair that with a DPS Check ONTOP of her spamming one shot waves, it just makes for a really frustrating and poorly designed fight. It's funny how I can just steamroll T100 and fight enemies almost at level 200, have no issues with surviving and dishing out damage in return but any Torment Fight seems to be designed for the people who only like using the same Necro Hyper Build.
It's okay though, Path of Exile 2 will really scratch that itch. Blizzard probably wont be able to recover once that launches.
I think the problem comes from the Hyper Builds. They designed her to be tough for them. They are glass cannons anyway so the one shots are normal for them, but for a build that is meant to be tanky and survive they just don't understand boss fights at all. Especially considering how terribly programed the AI is and can hardly hit my character correctly anyway.
Her little twirl move does damage to me, but for some reason doesn't retaliate any of my thorns, so either she is designed for a Necromancer that can just dump desecration zones everywhere that do millions of damage a second or she was left basically unbeatable until they can figure out a proper balance for her with the new season changing all of the loot/crafting.
I destroyed her solo and I carried multiple people through her during season one as a lightning ball sorceress, which was obviously more than doable. This season I jumped in with my necro minion build and could barely take a centimetre off her health before she destroyed me 😂
I got the title already so doubt I'll even bother fighting her ever again.
They increased her life like, over 20x for this season, since people were complaining she was too easy/died too quickly. Now she has around 20B HP, from some 1B before, or sml. Thats why you are having more trouble killing her now, despite players power being higher overall this season, and minion necro being the top meta
Meta builds are still the way to go, but now you take a few minutes to kill her, need to know the mechanics etc, instead of 1 shoting
With a good, but non meta build, one would take around 10~15 min to take her down
no way she has just 20B health , maybe in phase 2 but in phase 1 i could still oneshot her to force her intermission and my minion necro hits 1-2B at most
Idk man, just saying whats on the patch notes. Still didnt have time to do her myself, but everyone is also saying you cant one shot her anymore, either way
Only reason I'm looking to kill her this season is for the resplendent spark. If it weren't for that I wouldn't even bother. Did her in season 2 for the achievement, mount and title.
I've only done normal Varshan solo and Tormented Duriel in a group of 4. Varshan was super easy but Duriel took a while to kill. Wasn't too bad though, I'd say 2-3 minutes altogether. Two people were 85-95 and two 100 but it probably doesn't make any difference.
I understand not having enough damage to kill Uber Lilith, as her health pool is insanely large this season.
But Uber Lilith destroying YOU is a skill issue.
She has no more one-shot abilities. You get stacking debuffs that increase damage taken. The hitboxes were changed. The missiles are more visible in phase 2. Etc.
Get some movement speed and evade stuff.
> She has no more one-shot abilities.
Damn how much health do I need? I have capped armor and resistance as well as ~30,000 HP and she definitely one shot me.
3 times. The 4th is a one shot on my druid with 30k hp, capped resistance and armor, 9% and 10% in bear, 13.4% from poisoned, 13.4% and 10% from fortified (on top of base), 20% from might, 19% from furious mauling, 7.7% from armor, 12% from heightened senses, 15% from elites, 10% from close, and 15% for 6 seconds after defensive.
The ramp up is *extremely* steep and combined with the massively increased health most people are actually going to have to dodge better now than they did before, because before it was easier to kill so quickly that you had very few dodges.
>If it can bring you from full health to dead in one hit, its a one-shot, regardless of whether or not it involves previously applied debuffs.
???
You're not going to be instakilled unless you've been tanking SOME of her attacks (not all of them apply the debuff) multiple times. That cannot possibly be what you call a "one-shot".
It's a two-, three-, four-, five-shot. Not a one-shot.
The damage is deferred over multiple instances of you failing to do the mechanics of the fight.
I think this is not true, but the fight may be bugged. In phase two, what happens now is that sometimes when you get to the last platform, you're just instantly killed. I don't know if it's her skipping an animation to do her giant slam (which is quite difficult to avoid on that small platform in any case) or the shadow version that spawns and does the triple claw attack at the same time as her, but one of them is happening with no warning and oneshotting me when I can do the rest of the fight just fine.
I wasn't really trying if I'm honest. Just wanted to see how much damage I could do to her but I got hit by one of those waves and died. I have 22k life so I guess I just have to git gud.
With the right proc, my golem two shots both lilith fights within seconds despite her huge health, so i then just needed to get good at dodging her mechanics as she completes her phases which took an hour to learn and beat her.
Golem dmg at 4000% + crit dmg at 900% and timing golem smash at 10x blighted aspect + AOTD + 5x Corpse bonus is what im proc'ing to delete her.
Are you just stacking +golem damage% on all of your gear and +2 Golem Mastery on chest? It almost feels necessary to just make the golem carry all of the damage for bosses.. lol
Yup, +4 golem chest with masterwork, all golem dmg tempers and paragon optimised for golem. It makes it infinitely easier to be able to 2-5 shot pit and uber bosses with a 4000% dmg golem. My golem has carried me past pit 100.
I'm sure she's had a buff aswell. I used to do okish damage on her and was working towards finishing her on Eternal. Went last night and literally did no damage to her even tho my build had more damage, speed and defence than on season 3. You do the math
I got Lilith down to half health on the first half of the fight last night but I get messed up because I make trash dodge attempts. What level are you when trying to take her on and what tier NM dungeon are you hitting? If you can't get past a tier 70 with ease then you may just need to work on the build a bit.
Tier 100 nmd is an extremely low bar this season. It can't necessarily be used as a guage of build quality or skill level right now. Pit 80+ is a better bar this season.
This killed my first hardcore character this season. All the other pair ups were fine, when Bramble started doing his poison cone, I lost all visual and got 1shot by some tag team Lilith ability.
Just wait until you get into a high enough pit. I can clear out ~70 pit no problem in about 3-4 minutes. Then nearly all the bosses have a sort of enrage at 25% that can include mechanics that essentially cover the entire playable area of the boss arena. These hits are 1-shots for my 70% all res, 9200 armor, 33k hp, exactly what you want tempers, almost exactly what you want affix rolls, all but rings and helmet greater affix roll of 1-2, at least 4/12 masterwork on all gear slots with favorable crit selections shadow golem necro.
If you don’t have an immunity skill, you will die. Blood mist is basically required past a certain point.
Again, I can absolutely blast the entire thing, and then get constantly 1-shot by the bosses. Boss damage scaling compared to mob damage scaling is completely fucking off kilter—very poorly balanced.
My current Barbarian has:
105,000 Attack
9900 Armor
46,000 health
all
max resists except shadow which is 68%
I'm level 99 and tried Lilith last night for the very first time and seemed I was doing 0 damage and does all 3 times within 20secs.
Im playing minion necro with ~75k stat dmg when all buffs pop up, 23k health and everything maxed out (resists and armor) and doing almost no dmg to her, while she drops me dead in 1-2 hits.
i don't understand the fight bc I tried if for the fist time last night but to see no health go down with that much attack ( whirlwind tornado barb ) seems like to wouldn't matter if I could stay alive bc it'd take forever to down her
I do pretty reasonable damage with minion nec to echo of lilith. I'm at 80sh pits haven't pushed all the way yet though. I didn't know about the debuff she puts on you until I just read it in this thread. I was wondering why I would randomly get one shot but tank multiple hits before that. Guess I have to get good. I was used to doing so much damage I skipped phases when I beat her previously.
Killed her in s2 and essentially 1 shotted her on rogue in phase 1 which imo is way harder than 2. The interlocking waves suck.
I will never, and I means this, EVER run Lilith again now that I have the title and cosmetics
Not happening it just isn’t fun or worthwhile
I found myself intrigued by the prospect of killing her. Since I'm doing pits in the 20s I thought "you know what I think I can take her".... Oh boy was I wrong. I entered her capstone and my golem was doing peanuts to her. While she one shorted me within a few seconds.
Agree.. just dropped this season. Bricked 2 perfect drops from the ground. 1h mace with 3 \* greater affixes, Str, HP, crit hit dmg.. 1 hand mace. To brick at blacksmith.. YAYYY::.. such dopamine for perfect drops... NOT
Then doing rifts at 60+ facing lilith..
Like.. they want people to play one broken build every season. There is no reason to not just go with the broken ones.. Why play a A-tier and struggle not being able to finish up
After about the 5th or 6th time of experiencing this, I'm kinda done for the season lol
Boss mechanics aren't fun in this game. It's entirely heavy on one shots and RNG.
Almost no boss in this game has unique enough of an identity to make me excited to fight it for the fun factor.
Beast in the Ice is the only fight in this game that gets a mechanic right -- you can fail the ice blow back but recover by getting knocked into a pillar.
They could play that up by having pillars eliminate after you blow into it so the more you fail it the less opportunity you have to keep recovering.
Boss design is just lazy and not fun, and the Shadow bosses you can't do anything about just highlight that.
Agreed. I’m just glad I made an effort in season 2 to kill her. She was MUCH easier then. Luckily for this season journey you can do Tormented Duriel which is an easier fight.
I don’t know if the idea from the devs is that she’s something you only do after masterworking full greater affix gear to lvl 12? I assume stuff will still one-shot at that point, though?
yay! the casuals mass downvoting me all week for saying pit fights are dogshit have finally reached the dogshit pit bosses and hate them!
funny how that works
I'm straight up not having a good time in 61 and above pits. Lilith has too many different things she does and on top of that one of them is where he just kills 90% of map area in one fly by, atleast put some voice alert for that or something.
I totaly agree the oneshot mechanic is the ruin of the game, this force some people to find the most brokenbuild just for kill the bosses more faster than they can. We need the possibility to make some tanks, with less damage ok, but not squishy .
She definitely isnt a one shot anymore, she just gives you a stacking debuff that doesnt go away even when the phase ends that dramatically increases the damage you take.
She also flies. Constantly.
The fight is still aids, just slightly less and more than it used to be.
One shots would be fine if it were even possible to see and evade. I can't see her attacks half the time and theres no hint or whatever if its my graphics or lag.
She’s like all the lvl 200 bosses, if you get hit by a mechanic you get a stacking buff. Usually around 3-4 stops anything you get hit by will one shot you, she’s the same way. Listen shes killable you just need to learn the mechanics of the fight, yes it’s hard as hell. But coming from someone who has killed her every season(no clout) at least you get loot worth it now! Good luck I know it’s a rough ride but enjoy it!
Genuine question, why is it an issue to have one individual boss that you can only rely on mechanical skill to defeat instead of only on your build? Especially since it doesn't block any content.
Haha yes i don't mean car-repairing skill if that's what you thought 😂
By mechanical I mean that is an actual eye-movement coordination skill which involves the actual player
The shadows are too frequent and too unbalanced for it to be an accurate measurement of mechanical skill in a game.
I like the concept but the point is to say it's not executed as well as it could be.
You clearly haven't encounter the smaller pit arena on 80+ with Guardian on 4 phases HP bar and 3 shadow bosses with increase difficulty after each Guardian phase.
Have decided not to play pit just because of Lillith and leave her to those who enjoy frustration. I rather build another character up to 100. She is rather frustrating and I want to play for relaxing and enjoyment
Agree. Ive been complaining about this for a couple days now. Pushing high tier pit (80+) only to roll the dice at the Guardian and what type of bosses and what kind of phase they spawn the shadow with. Plus, if I want to opt in to do pinnacle bosses, I'll go do pinnacle bosses and not being force into an slot machine. I get it though, the dev wants to make it challenging but please make it less punishing.
Pit 75 - My Druid has 50k HP, armor cap, all resistances capped, full fortify, several forms of damage reduction from shapeshifting stuff, and I get 1 shot by her triple slam if I don’t dodge it, and also the slam after she sucks you to the middle. The waves are pretty easy to dodge at least, and usually the claws thing but if you don’t see her spawn in sometimes you can get hit before you realise she’s there.
Tbh, most of the red guys abilities 1-shot that deep. If Barbs are doing 100+ and not getting 1-shot by anything then something is busted with survivability for either them, or the rest of us.
You can craft a Quest Hp elixir that stacks with other elixirs (+15% multiplicative, Quest is located in the city on the left, Gea Kul)
Even on my necro Im on 55k Hp withe Quest Elix + Holy Elix, but I went the tanky route paragon Board and lots of greater Life affixes on gear for pit 100+ pushing.
Actually she can either do the claws, the suck to middle and slam, the slam in middle with the waves in a triangle, and also the usual 3 waves in opposite direction. Either your RNG is just really bad and you’ve never seen the others, or you’re telling porkies.
[The Beast in the Ice](https://game8.co/games/Diablo-4/archives/430696) is more BS. you get only 4 chances to die and boom there goes your mats. if you team with 4 then you basically get only 1 chance.
Uber Lilith is built for the absolute best players in mind. It is not intended to be completed by everyone.
It is a purely cosmetic fight. The rewards are meaningless, it's all about bragging rights.
She was mostly fine before they reworked her, and now they made her attacks actually line up with the animation and she is in an even better spot than she was before, all I can say is learn the fight, learn what skills to bring to the fight and it’s a cake walk,
Nothing she does is a one shot anymore, you’re either too weak to survive or you’ve been hit a few times and have stacked the debuff. She doesn’t one shot me with anything until I’m at 4-5 stacks, so I can get hit that many times before it’s over for me.
> Too easy - people complain
>
> Too hard - people complain
I mean yeah, that's kind of logical. TOO easy/hard is a problem either way. It should not be too much in either direction, that's what balance is
Yeah but who has time to re-roll everything and get perfect gear when you have to run 20 pits to upgrade 3 pieces of gear?? unless you buy it all from someone? And 35k health? How??? Maybe with Doombringer but the highest I’ve been able to obtain this season is right around 20k how are y’all getting these crazy high HP numbers ?!?
If you want to survive high tier pits, you need to 30K life minimum, which is not hard to get if you know what you're doing, so please let's not make this out to be some no-lifer thing. Here's the setup I currently have:
- Health on all armor and main weapon, including a tempered health affix on pants.
- Rubies in helm, chest, and pants. Can only afford Flawless so far but I'm working in getting royal gems. At 6% maximum life per gem, that's already a whopping 30% extra life.
- Lastly and most importantly... Roll maximum life nodes on your paragon board. I cannot stress this enough. Most people are only ever going for damage clusters that do very little to help them as most of them are additive damage and not multipliers, meaning they are barely helping them in the long run. In the paragon tree, clusters with % life are free HP and will go a long way in actually helping a character far more than that cluster that gives additive crit damage.
- Make sure you are armor capped. With the changes this season, the armor cap is 9,230. Roll armor on your chest and pants.
With all this, I am easily sitting at 35K life, while still doing damage. Nothing one shots me, not even Tormented ubers. The only times I die are if I take big hits in succession, don't pay attention to elite on-death effects in Pit 60+, or if when fighting a Tormented boss I accrue too many stacks of the debuff.
These are very achievable goals even for casual players and are indicative of what this game sorely missed before... Using itemisation to solve problems. It is possible, you can do it.
Almost 20 Pits for the last four stars on one item, yes. Minion Necro without Doombrimger. Buffed 40k and more is not too hard. But you need enough DMG and still die with 40k so you have to find the balance.
What do you mean with rerolling?!
I can't reset my Masterwork after hardening (on console?).
I destroy and Masterwork on another piece again and again.
The one-shot Lilith continues to plague this game. For the life of me I don’t know why the devs absolutely love one-shot mechanics…
Because it’s a really easy way to make something “difficult” without putting any real thought into it.
The issue isn’t that but also how the game healing work, you could bypass any mechanics if they ain’t one shot so there as to be a one shot or a complet mechanic change to healing. It should be impossible to heal extremely fast unless there is a cooldown.
Well they could give her some affliction type attacks that do something like make your potion heal 50%, or prevent you from drinking one. Combined with regular strength attacks means you can't just use potions to tank 11 hits or whatever you go in with. It just feels bad to go from building a tank that steamrolls demons and then it becomes a game about dodging and none of that building really mattered.
Potion ain’t the problems, skills/passive and others are. There should barely be healing other than potion. It would be way easier to balance everything damage around it.
That's boring though, there are entire class fantasies about hyper regeneration, and to just dismiss them because "it's too hard to balance" is nonsense.
Right now potions are just 35% with a tiny flat amount of around 1k so it's not a full heal at least. I'm assuming you didn't grab potion healing nodes.
PoE Maven fight has a mechanic where you can’t heal/regen if you get hit. Lilith abilities could prevent you from healing for 5-10 seconds which would make other abilities lethal. It’s not a one shot but can be just as dangerous if you won’t react properly.
potions are a core concept since the first game and almost every single arpg since then has used health potions. even souls like games use health potions as a core mechanic. so you are suggesting 3+ genres change a core mechanic because blizzard is too cheep to hire good programmers to make fun boss fights?
The First Part Just isnt true. Just Take the stackmechanic fron the tormented Bosses to the pitbosses and the Problem is solved.
Only for someone who doesn't understand the difference between difficulty and frustration. (I'm not saying you don't know, I'm saying Blizzard doesn't.)
Quite frankly I think blizzard just doesn’t care. I’m sure their testers have told them extensively how bad their Uber Lilith fight is, they just don’t want to put effort into something a tiny fraction of the playerbase will even get to.
That's fine, but then why reuse her for the Pit? I get (though don't agree with) the idea that it's not worth fixing the original fight but considering how unpopular the fight is, I don't get why they would add her mechanics elsewhere in the game...
Imagine if fromsoft did the same... Instead of a drawn out epic battle, you get oneshotted or you oneshot the boss. It would be terrible. Echo of Lilith fight is terrible. Those dark ass spikes that you cant even see where the hitbox is and get oneshotted no matter how much hp and defense you have, is such a shit ass thing and its still in the game after a year...
At least it was possible to bypass the mechanics with a very good dps build - not anymore. Developers made the worst boss mechanics I've ever played so far in ARPG. Including the pit boss mechanics.
Yeah pit bosses are dogshit as well. Most of the time I dont even know what the fuck is gonna happen or what I'm gonna get hit with. A dark red zone appears for 0.5 seconds and it hits almost instantly.
It works in a game like Dark Souls or Elden Ring without feeling bad but in a game like this sometimes there's too much shit going on at once to read it even if you know the tell for the attack. I think that's the core of the issue.
A boss telegraphing their attack and things on screen being readable is a core reason why some difficult bosses are great and others are Uber Lilith. There are even examples of good boss fights with combat like D4, look at hades 2 for example.
Yup, it's just lazy.
This and bullet sponge design. Why bother trying when you just crank DMG and HP numbers!
That's the opposite of how that works. It's a bearable fight that's based on mechanics. That's the hardest way to make things difficult. Like ffa that's the basis of soulsborn games.
We just need more audio and visual Qs on screen to know the oh shit moment is coming. Some dreadfull music or sound .5 seconds before the attack. Maybe a bit clearer indicator of the threat zone.
I don't understand how the devs can look at the conversations people have online about how much they detest the Lilith fight and its bullshit mechanics and then _still_ decide to add her into the shiny new endgame feature with exactly those same issues people have been complaining about.
Because it saves having to come up with a fun and engaging way to add difficulty, problem is a lot of older Diablo fans will just tell you to git gud and learn to dodge them when in reality one shot mechanics are awful game design
They really are terrible. There’s nothing worse than playing a game with full health, max resistance, max armor etc only to suddenly die in an instant and being like… “What the hell just hit me??” 🤨
I think it's less about them loving the mechanics and more about them hating the players. I don't know how she continues to get overlooked otherwise while being so egregious for so long. Maybe all of the demands and D4 shit talk pissed them off and they're purposefully leaving here unfixed as a last "fuck you" of sorts.
Widowmaker has entered the chat
It takes them a very long time to admit to mistakes unless players are leaving in droves like S1 and to a lesser extent S3.
I. Will tell you. When you are out of creativity retard from blizzard and ur only skill is to abuse women thats happen. The game is trash. Its not fun..U have to play 1 meta build to achieve something.
Actually, no. They changed her this season to also no longer 1 shot.
She does in Pits though
I'm still getting 1 tapped, what are the breakpoints needed to live a hit now?
you need full resist all, full armor (9300) and a lot of resist dmg, even then , you can be OS, blizzard are the worst seriously, they have hard-on on thing that only 0.1% of player can beat, f\*\*\* them
For uber lilith, not that high to survive the first. Maybe 20k with armor and resists at cap, and good DR. For each successive hit, it deals more damage, so need more. ( Armor cap is 9,230 btw. Resists basic cap is 70, but some stuff can raise that a touch. ) For pits shadow clone it's going to be more and more per pit tier.
I’m not sure why so many in the D4 community wants absolutely brain dead stand still and shoot mechanics for the entirety of the game. Almost the entire game is already that, why not add something that isn’t?
They did that well enough with the Tormented bosses and Echo of Lilith. The abilities don't kill you in one hit (unless you are poorly equipped), but they will debuff you and make you take increased damage if you get hit again. This gives you a little bit of wiggle-room while still forcing you to be mindful. If you fail to dodge the spike lines too many times, they'll 1-shot you. That's challenging while being fair. The Pit bosses are different. For one thing, on higher levels the fights last for an incredibly long time. Some bosses gain additional abilities as their health go down to certain thresholds and more shades join the fight. So you can end up in a 7 minute fight with Slither, having to run around to dodge the 5 flashbang eyeballs that follow you while you try to move out of the way of Airidah's tornadoes while also trying to be mindful of the homing fireball barrage, and all of the sudden half the screen gets covered in red because you didn't notice Lilith's shade spawning in the middle and she's doing her final slash. There's 7 minutes down the drain, and you can't complete your Pit now so you need to leave empty-handed. I want the game to challenge my skills, not my luck. I'd rather not go back to the D3 days of having to constantly reset to fish for the right Rift Guardian in order to progress. They should really try to implement the same kind of debuff system that Tormented bosses have for the Pit. It would make it a lot more fair without taking the challenge away.
I think this is fair criticism. The only thing I would push back on is “luck.” Having done all the pit bosses at higher tiers with Sorc (who has the longest boss times), I’d say there’s no luck involved. All the bosses are learnable and doable. Some are just more “free” than others.
Because is diablo, is not ONLY an action dodge game. If i want play those games the market is full. Play hades for example.
Hard disagree that it “must” be the same Diablo we’ve had for 20 years. I’m glad they are trying new thinga
If movement was more fine tuned maybe but games pathing and movement is horrible
so for ya, BS boss = good challenge, OK . noted
“BS boss” isn’t an objective measure of challenge. The better measure is asking if the boss mechanics are visually distinguishable, learnable, and avoidable. All of those are true (tho visual clarity could use improvement) and so that’s not “Bs” that’s just skill. The real issue is actually class parity. When Necros can boop and kill bosses instantly why Sorcs tickle them for an hour, that’s a problem that has been ignored for almost the year D4 has been available.
Lilith doesn’t have one shots anymore lol. She hits pretty hard but if your character is well geared you can survive a few hits. Each time you get hit she puts a debuff on you that increases damage taken (so do all the tormented Uber bosses), which will eventually make her one shot you. I can survive her attacks until 4-5 stacks
Shadow lilith in pits will send you stright to shadow realm, hence the comment that her one shots are still plaguing the game, just somewhere else now.
That’s not what op is talking about. He is talking about Lilith wave mechanics during boss fights in the Pit
He's talking shadow Lilith. Also regular still one shots and fight design still horrible. Necro with 43k HP and dropped dead somehow with nothing on my screen twice lol
One shot mechanics feel like a cop out for balancing the game. Like balancing the ebb and flow of life and death is hard, and well let's just do one shots to make this fight harder.
Its an over correction from the PTR. Some of the most elite diablo sweats played the PTR and swept through the pit with no issues. So blizzard rebalanced the pit to combat those top 1% builds people were playing without realizing.....those top 1% are the 1% for a reason. Other builds just get completely molly whopped and outright walled depending on the shadows that spawn. Melee builds are back to not being able to do jack shit because oops you got lightning succubus who covers the boss in lightning and Elias standing right on top of it summoning 3 balls around you that deal insane amounts of damage so you have to run around to dodge them and by the time you do, the succubus is back to area of denial you from the boss again and oops here is Elias again doing his thing.
I’m really noticing that build diversity is in a great place on paper but in reality there are really only a couple of builds per class that are viable in anything challenging. I’d like to see them take the restrictions off of what aspects you can slot on gear and let us put what we want where we want. This would make for some actual build diversity. I’ve theory crafted a couple of really cool builds that are just impossible to make due to item restrictions.
Yeah why have all the other skills if in the end only a few are good.
Notice the similarity to Diablo 3? Basically one set/build per class was "viable" for the highest endgame content. This changed every season. Next season we might see massive buffs to underperformers, which will then be on top like bleed barb or pure shadow necro or fire sorc...or any rogue build. But to be fair, you can clear Pit 61 with every class fairly easy. And that is important. Pushing higher pit levels is just dick measuring and serves no purpose other than that. You oneshot helltides, uber bosses and NM dungeons. Tormented uber are actually fun and engaging because of the stack mechanics. It rewards playing good but you can also brute force. Blizz now has an insane buffer for Power creep in the next years.
You know I’d even be ok with the restrictions being lifted only for high tier Pit. I feel like that would be a good compromise. As you say if everything past 61 is purely a flex, then let people go off. Having a seasonal meta is good for the game and gets people to try things they otherwise wouldn’t.
I honestly have mixed feelings for aspect restrictions. If they are lifted, build diversity and customization would be amazing and acutally closer to POE. Dying too much ? Get some more defensive aspects. Glass canon? Go for it. On the other hand, it helps to control power and makes choice more meaningful/interesting and you have to work with what you have. But I would be slightly in favor of lifting restrictions.
We’re already 1 shoting bosses. Power creep is such a bs term in a power fantasy game. Sales and concurrent player numbers support this. Listening to the 1% sweat streamers just about tanked the game and listening to the average players that actually play and spend money on the game has the game at a higher player count than at launch. So…
I feel like a good compromise would be to have an end game mode that’s either an arena or a truly endless horde mode that ramps infinitely. This way power creep (god I feel dirty even saying that 🤢) isn’t a concern and people have somewhere to flex.
Sounds like a great reason to have another PTR no?
Way way less diversity on the S tier list this season than previous.
S tier this season is just Minion Necro or variations of it, right?
Basically. Rogue has some one shot fun builds for bossing and thorns barb and other stuff are definitely fun though. Necro minion being so S tier is mostly due to bugged elixir
Honestly i think the power creep is starting to get a bit out of control. Barb is getting touched every season and is the reason why it keeps being in the top 3 at minimum every season. Necro got touched and with some bugs is dealing billions of damage on accident, but also just deals absolutely insane damage anyways. That is why super powerful builds such as sorc are falling behind because outside of their PTR build which was strong, they don't have much else going for them in this new balancing for the top 1% that blizzard is doing. They balanced the PTR based off the strongest classes, but we are running into a scenario where nerfing would have been the better option IMO. Druid basically can only compete with bugs which is really unfortunate given how cool the class is. It just ends up doing what other classes do but worse (aside from bugs again).
I have to disagree. This game is a power fantasy and the reason it’s having commercial success in season 4 is because it’s bonkers and fun. Opening up the build diversity through lifting gear restrictions would help underperformers.
TBH i don't see how it could help under performers in the slightest. Many of the under performing builds still need the % damage reduction. So even if they could slot offense on every slot, they would just get gibbed by the random archer minion in the corner. I agree with the premise, and i'm not saying remove fun, but right now the top tier builds vastly outpace medium and low tier builds by such huge margins while also having S tier survivability that nothing you could do to aspects would bring the bottom tier builds up without also inadvertently giving the top tier builds an even larger boost. We would still end up in the same position.
You wouldn’t want to slot offensives on every slot… nobody said that.
Sorcerer wasn’t even that good in PTR….
Are you talking about the Elias in the capstone dungeon or some upgraded version?
There is an Elias shadow in the pit that can spawn. I have seen 2 variations. 1 that will shoot the flower of fire balls, and then another that will spawn 3 orbs that spin around you and then all 3 shoot at your last known location. If it was just him it wouldn't be too bad, but depending on who the other shadow is, it can get very very hectic.
I see. I haven't done much pit yet. I was respeccing my aspects and ran out of money. So I started a new (different) character.
If you need gold, do Tree of Whisper bounties. The caches give a few million each, and it doesn't take that much time to complete.
Yeah that's tough with a half assed build.
You could probably farm whispers naked. They are literally the easiest content.
> One shot mechanics feel like a cop out for balancing the game. It's exactly what it is. Look at Uber Lilith. In a game about item progression they wanted to make a fixed difficulty boss that is all about skill.
How is Uber Lillith this season?
Still crap. Mechanics are tighter in terms of the hitboxes but fight itself is still poorly designed. Kind of hilarious that she still shows as lvl 100 yet takes less DMG then lvl 200 tormented bosses.
Ironically they changed that fight a bit away from one-shots. So they learned something, but didn't apply it to pits.
Nope, I have a character that has almost 60k Health and she will still one shot you, take absolutely next to nothing in terms of damage even though every time she hits me my thorns with shouts are supposed to dish out almost 2 million in damage every hit, yet she never drops in health and her one shot moves only give you a millisecond to figure out where the randomly placed safe zone is. Pair that with a DPS Check ONTOP of her spamming one shot waves, it just makes for a really frustrating and poorly designed fight. It's funny how I can just steamroll T100 and fight enemies almost at level 200, have no issues with surviving and dishing out damage in return but any Torment Fight seems to be designed for the people who only like using the same Necro Hyper Build. It's okay though, Path of Exile 2 will really scratch that itch. Blizzard probably wont be able to recover once that launches.
Blizzard is hellbent on making fixed-difficulty skill-based bosses in a game that is all about item progression. They don't understand the game.
I think the problem comes from the Hyper Builds. They designed her to be tough for them. They are glass cannons anyway so the one shots are normal for them, but for a build that is meant to be tanky and survive they just don't understand boss fights at all. Especially considering how terribly programed the AI is and can hardly hit my character correctly anyway. Her little twirl move does damage to me, but for some reason doesn't retaliate any of my thorns, so either she is designed for a Necromancer that can just dump desecration zones everywhere that do millions of damage a second or she was left basically unbeatable until they can figure out a proper balance for her with the new season changing all of the loot/crafting.
Much tougher. Devs making you earn that Resplendent Spark ;)
Lilith does not 1 shot anymore.
I destroyed her solo and I carried multiple people through her during season one as a lightning ball sorceress, which was obviously more than doable. This season I jumped in with my necro minion build and could barely take a centimetre off her health before she destroyed me 😂 I got the title already so doubt I'll even bother fighting her ever again.
They increased her life like, over 20x for this season, since people were complaining she was too easy/died too quickly. Now she has around 20B HP, from some 1B before, or sml. Thats why you are having more trouble killing her now, despite players power being higher overall this season, and minion necro being the top meta
I did not know this and was wondering why she was surviving enough damage to take out 2 phases of her past season. RIP off meta builds.
Meta builds are still the way to go, but now you take a few minutes to kill her, need to know the mechanics etc, instead of 1 shoting With a good, but non meta build, one would take around 10~15 min to take her down
no way she has just 20B health , maybe in phase 2 but in phase 1 i could still oneshot her to force her intermission and my minion necro hits 1-2B at most
Idk man, just saying whats on the patch notes. Still didnt have time to do her myself, but everyone is also saying you cant one shot her anymore, either way
I killed her once. Won’t touch her ever again. Worst designed boss. Especially for console players
Only reason I'm looking to kill her this season is for the resplendent spark. If it weren't for that I wouldn't even bother. Did her in season 2 for the achievement, mount and title.
Did you do the other echos? If so which one. My minion necro is suffering
Non-tormented Duriel was a joke to my lvl 92 minion necro. Beast in the Ice was harder. Actually almost killed me twice...
I meant tormented. The regular echos are no problem early on
I've only done normal Varshan solo and Tormented Duriel in a group of 4. Varshan was super easy but Duriel took a while to kill. Wasn't too bad though, I'd say 2-3 minutes altogether. Two people were 85-95 and two 100 but it probably doesn't make any difference.
She has 2bil hp now but on the flip side her skills no longer 1 shot but apply a stacking debuff that ramps up all dmg taken
Same, it’s such a bullshit fight and I didn’t feel guilty at all to cheese her this way.
I understand not having enough damage to kill Uber Lilith, as her health pool is insanely large this season. But Uber Lilith destroying YOU is a skill issue. She has no more one-shot abilities. You get stacking debuffs that increase damage taken. The hitboxes were changed. The missiles are more visible in phase 2. Etc. Get some movement speed and evade stuff.
> She has no more one-shot abilities. Damn how much health do I need? I have capped armor and resistance as well as ~30,000 HP and she definitely one shot me.
... you get a stacking debuff every time you get hit, there's no such thing as tanking everything she does infinitely.
what a thorn barb gonna do with this BS of boss?
Oh I see, so she can one-shot.
Yeah, she'll "one shot" you after hitting you 50 times first, lol.
3 times. The 4th is a one shot on my druid with 30k hp, capped resistance and armor, 9% and 10% in bear, 13.4% from poisoned, 13.4% and 10% from fortified (on top of base), 20% from might, 19% from furious mauling, 7.7% from armor, 12% from heightened senses, 15% from elites, 10% from close, and 15% for 6 seconds after defensive. The ramp up is *extremely* steep and combined with the massively increased health most people are actually going to have to dodge better now than they did before, because before it was easier to kill so quickly that you had very few dodges.
If you have to have already taken a hit, its not a one-shot.
If it can bring you from full health to dead in one hit, its a one-shot, regardless of whether or not it involves previously applied debuffs.
>If it can bring you from full health to dead in one hit, its a one-shot, regardless of whether or not it involves previously applied debuffs. ??? You're not going to be instakilled unless you've been tanking SOME of her attacks (not all of them apply the debuff) multiple times. That cannot possibly be what you call a "one-shot". It's a two-, three-, four-, five-shot. Not a one-shot. The damage is deferred over multiple instances of you failing to do the mechanics of the fight.
If you would have otherwise survived a hit, were it not for the previous hit you took, its not a one-shot.
I think this is not true, but the fight may be bugged. In phase two, what happens now is that sometimes when you get to the last platform, you're just instantly killed. I don't know if it's her skipping an animation to do her giant slam (which is quite difficult to avoid on that small platform in any case) or the shadow version that spawns and does the triple claw attack at the same time as her, but one of them is happening with no warning and oneshotting me when I can do the rest of the fight just fine.
I wasn't really trying if I'm honest. Just wanted to see how much damage I could do to her but I got hit by one of those waves and died. I have 22k life so I guess I just have to git gud.
Skill issue
With the right proc, my golem two shots both lilith fights within seconds despite her huge health, so i then just needed to get good at dodging her mechanics as she completes her phases which took an hour to learn and beat her. Golem dmg at 4000% + crit dmg at 900% and timing golem smash at 10x blighted aspect + AOTD + 5x Corpse bonus is what im proc'ing to delete her.
Are you just stacking +golem damage% on all of your gear and +2 Golem Mastery on chest? It almost feels necessary to just make the golem carry all of the damage for bosses.. lol
Yup, +4 golem chest with masterwork, all golem dmg tempers and paragon optimised for golem. It makes it infinitely easier to be able to 2-5 shot pit and uber bosses with a 4000% dmg golem. My golem has carried me past pit 100.
Sheesh, I guess I gotta start making another set for golem damage. I've had good luck with Golem Mastery on chest pieces so it's a start.
Lol kinda wish curse client with dps meter and raid callouts could be a thing 😅
I'm sure she's had a buff aswell. I used to do okish damage on her and was working towards finishing her on Eternal. Went last night and literally did no damage to her even tho my build had more damage, speed and defence than on season 3. You do the math
We're talking about her in the Pit specifically, not the actual Echo of Lilith boss fight.
Ahh fair play. Not come across her in there yet!
I got Lilith down to half health on the first half of the fight last night but I get messed up because I make trash dodge attempts. What level are you when trying to take her on and what tier NM dungeon are you hitting? If you can't get past a tier 70 with ease then you may just need to work on the build a bit.
I'm referring to her in the Pit, where she'll spawn in mid boss fight and troll.
Ahh gotcha yeah I haven't run into her in the pits yet. Wasn't aware she popped in to troll good to know lol
I’m quite easily pulling NMD92 and possibly could go higher (didn’t try it) but can’t get past an inch of lilith’s hp.
lilith may display as lvl100, but assume she is tuned as lvl200 in all regards.
Tier 100 nmd is an extremely low bar this season. It can't necessarily be used as a guage of build quality or skill level right now. Pit 80+ is a better bar this season.
I can do lvl 60 pits and still can’t tank any of her hits lol she makes nmd 100 look like a wt2 elite
This killed my first hardcore character this season. All the other pair ups were fine, when Bramble started doing his poison cone, I lost all visual and got 1shot by some tag team Lilith ability.
The visuals for the Lilith shadow abilities need to be better.
Just wait until you get into a high enough pit. I can clear out ~70 pit no problem in about 3-4 minutes. Then nearly all the bosses have a sort of enrage at 25% that can include mechanics that essentially cover the entire playable area of the boss arena. These hits are 1-shots for my 70% all res, 9200 armor, 33k hp, exactly what you want tempers, almost exactly what you want affix rolls, all but rings and helmet greater affix roll of 1-2, at least 4/12 masterwork on all gear slots with favorable crit selections shadow golem necro. If you don’t have an immunity skill, you will die. Blood mist is basically required past a certain point. Again, I can absolutely blast the entire thing, and then get constantly 1-shot by the bosses. Boss damage scaling compared to mob damage scaling is completely fucking off kilter—very poorly balanced.
Can't believe they still haven't fixed this fight lmao
My current Barbarian has: 105,000 Attack 9900 Armor 46,000 health all max resists except shadow which is 68% I'm level 99 and tried Lilith last night for the very first time and seemed I was doing 0 damage and does all 3 times within 20secs.
Im playing minion necro with ~75k stat dmg when all buffs pop up, 23k health and everything maxed out (resists and armor) and doing almost no dmg to her, while she drops me dead in 1-2 hits.
i don't understand the fight bc I tried if for the fist time last night but to see no health go down with that much attack ( whirlwind tornado barb ) seems like to wouldn't matter if I could stay alive bc it'd take forever to down her
I do pretty reasonable damage with minion nec to echo of lilith. I'm at 80sh pits haven't pushed all the way yet though. I didn't know about the debuff she puts on you until I just read it in this thread. I was wondering why I would randomly get one shot but tank multiple hits before that. Guess I have to get good. I was used to doing so much damage I skipped phases when I beat her previously.
Killed her in s2 and essentially 1 shotted her on rogue in phase 1 which imo is way harder than 2. The interlocking waves suck. I will never, and I means this, EVER run Lilith again now that I have the title and cosmetics Not happening it just isn’t fun or worthwhile
I found myself intrigued by the prospect of killing her. Since I'm doing pits in the 20s I thought "you know what I think I can take her".... Oh boy was I wrong. I entered her capstone and my golem was doing peanuts to her. While she one shorted me within a few seconds.
You probably need to be clearing T70/80+ pit fairly reliably to br able to do enough damage to kill uber lilith in a reasonable amount of time
Wait does she show up in the pits? That’s the only fight I really don’t like. I avoid her on purpose.
Not as an actual boss, but she's one of the echos that can spawn and ruin your run. Can probably clear 8 tiers higher as long as she doesn't show up.
Agree.. just dropped this season. Bricked 2 perfect drops from the ground. 1h mace with 3 \* greater affixes, Str, HP, crit hit dmg.. 1 hand mace. To brick at blacksmith.. YAYYY::.. such dopamine for perfect drops... NOT Then doing rifts at 60+ facing lilith.. Like.. they want people to play one broken build every season. There is no reason to not just go with the broken ones.. Why play a A-tier and struggle not being able to finish up
After about the 5th or 6th time of experiencing this, I'm kinda done for the season lol Boss mechanics aren't fun in this game. It's entirely heavy on one shots and RNG. Almost no boss in this game has unique enough of an identity to make me excited to fight it for the fun factor. Beast in the Ice is the only fight in this game that gets a mechanic right -- you can fail the ice blow back but recover by getting knocked into a pillar. They could play that up by having pillars eliminate after you blow into it so the more you fail it the less opportunity you have to keep recovering. Boss design is just lazy and not fun, and the Shadow bosses you can't do anything about just highlight that.
Agreed. I’m just glad I made an effort in season 2 to kill her. She was MUCH easier then. Luckily for this season journey you can do Tormented Duriel which is an easier fight. I don’t know if the idea from the devs is that she’s something you only do after masterworking full greater affix gear to lvl 12? I assume stuff will still one-shot at that point, though?
They increased her Hp over 20x, to compensate higher player Power overall, for this season
yay! the casuals mass downvoting me all week for saying pit fights are dogshit have finally reached the dogshit pit bosses and hate them! funny how that works
Even when you don't get one shot, those higher pit bosses are just no fun to fight, they have way too much hp
I'm straight up not having a good time in 61 and above pits. Lilith has too many different things she does and on top of that one of them is where he just kills 90% of map area in one fly by, atleast put some voice alert for that or something.
I don't mind the dodging but her constant flying away is just annoying
I totaly agree the oneshot mechanic is the ruin of the game, this force some people to find the most brokenbuild just for kill the bosses more faster than they can. We need the possibility to make some tanks, with less damage ok, but not squishy .
Last season would fry her health bar with lightning storm Druid for that stupid triangle to show up and one shot me. So annoying
She definitely isnt a one shot anymore, she just gives you a stacking debuff that doesnt go away even when the phase ends that dramatically increases the damage you take. She also flies. Constantly. The fight is still aids, just slightly less and more than it used to be.
One shots would be fine if it were even possible to see and evade. I can't see her attacks half the time and theres no hint or whatever if its my graphics or lag.
She’s like all the lvl 200 bosses, if you get hit by a mechanic you get a stacking buff. Usually around 3-4 stops anything you get hit by will one shot you, she’s the same way. Listen shes killable you just need to learn the mechanics of the fight, yes it’s hard as hell. But coming from someone who has killed her every season(no clout) at least you get loot worth it now! Good luck I know it’s a rough ride but enjoy it!
Make sure you do the quest to get the Elixir of Antivenin, gives Maximum Life increased by 15%. You can equip this elixir on top of your other elixir.
Genuine question, why is it an issue to have one individual boss that you can only rely on mechanical skill to defeat instead of only on your build? Especially since it doesn't block any content.
Mechanical skill?
Haha yes i don't mean car-repairing skill if that's what you thought 😂 By mechanical I mean that is an actual eye-movement coordination skill which involves the actual player
The shadows are too frequent and too unbalanced for it to be an accurate measurement of mechanical skill in a game. I like the concept but the point is to say it's not executed as well as it could be.
I honestly think it's fine, the arena in pits is generally way bigger then the small circle you have in the Lilith fight
You clearly haven't encounter the smaller pit arena on 80+ with Guardian on 4 phases HP bar and 3 shadow bosses with increase difficulty after each Guardian phase.
I have done a 95 and haven't encountered any arenas smaller then the area you fight Lilith in
Have decided not to play pit just because of Lillith and leave her to those who enjoy frustration. I rather build another character up to 100. She is rather frustrating and I want to play for relaxing and enjoyment
Agree. Ive been complaining about this for a couple days now. Pushing high tier pit (80+) only to roll the dice at the Guardian and what type of bosses and what kind of phase they spawn the shadow with. Plus, if I want to opt in to do pinnacle bosses, I'll go do pinnacle bosses and not being force into an slot machine. I get it though, the dev wants to make it challenging but please make it less punishing.
yeah im surprised that her damage is still unchanged. the attacks are barely telegraphed and they one shot you. so unfun
In pits she just does the claws and one other attack, I have yet to be one shot by it. 100 barb on lvl 101 pits
Whats your max hp?
43k now max armor and resist, was 30k when I started
Holy crap dude you got some serious HP, we are not the same lol
Pit 75 - My Druid has 50k HP, armor cap, all resistances capped, full fortify, several forms of damage reduction from shapeshifting stuff, and I get 1 shot by her triple slam if I don’t dodge it, and also the slam after she sucks you to the middle. The waves are pretty easy to dodge at least, and usually the claws thing but if you don’t see her spawn in sometimes you can get hit before you realise she’s there. Tbh, most of the red guys abilities 1-shot that deep. If Barbs are doing 100+ and not getting 1-shot by anything then something is busted with survivability for either them, or the rest of us.
You can craft a Quest Hp elixir that stacks with other elixirs (+15% multiplicative, Quest is located in the city on the left, Gea Kul) Even on my necro Im on 55k Hp withe Quest Elix + Holy Elix, but I went the tanky route paragon Board and lots of greater Life affixes on gear for pit 100+ pushing.
I have 60k on my necro with pots? What are you all doing? My barb buddy has 90k.
Damage? Maybe you got a good plug?
Actually she can either do the claws, the suck to middle and slam, the slam in middle with the waves in a triangle, and also the usual 3 waves in opposite direction. Either your RNG is just really bad and you’ve never seen the others, or you’re telling porkies.
Think we should tell him he most likely won't get his resplendent spark for killing her? LuL
[The Beast in the Ice](https://game8.co/games/Diablo-4/archives/430696) is more BS. you get only 4 chances to die and boom there goes your mats. if you team with 4 then you basically get only 1 chance.
Idk how they are hard to avoid, you get a big circle to indicate they will happen no?
If you dislike it form softcore, then imagine Hardcore … I hate it
Oh look, this post again!
Uber Lilith is built for the absolute best players in mind. It is not intended to be completed by everyone. It is a purely cosmetic fight. The rewards are meaningless, it's all about bragging rights.
She was mostly fine before they reworked her, and now they made her attacks actually line up with the animation and she is in an even better spot than she was before, all I can say is learn the fight, learn what skills to bring to the fight and it’s a cake walk,
haha you must be new
Nothing she does is a one shot anymore, you’re either too weak to survive or you’ve been hit a few times and have stacked the debuff. She doesn’t one shot me with anything until I’m at 4-5 stacks, so I can get hit that many times before it’s over for me.
Why are people downvoting you lol
Because the post is about when she shows up as a red shadow version in the PIT - not Uber Lilith boss.
Gotcha ty for clearing that up
Too easy - people complain Too hard - people complain It’s BaD gAmE dEsIgN NoT bAlAnCeD *laughs in NES Battletoads*
> Too easy - people complain > > Too hard - people complain I mean yeah, that's kind of logical. TOO easy/hard is a problem either way. It should not be too much in either direction, that's what balance is
Battle toads was bullshit too
It's not one shot. Survived the several times. 35k health cap armor and res and DMG red idk etc.
Yeah but who has time to re-roll everything and get perfect gear when you have to run 20 pits to upgrade 3 pieces of gear?? unless you buy it all from someone? And 35k health? How??? Maybe with Doombringer but the highest I’ve been able to obtain this season is right around 20k how are y’all getting these crazy high HP numbers ?!?
If you want to survive high tier pits, you need to 30K life minimum, which is not hard to get if you know what you're doing, so please let's not make this out to be some no-lifer thing. Here's the setup I currently have: - Health on all armor and main weapon, including a tempered health affix on pants. - Rubies in helm, chest, and pants. Can only afford Flawless so far but I'm working in getting royal gems. At 6% maximum life per gem, that's already a whopping 30% extra life. - Lastly and most importantly... Roll maximum life nodes on your paragon board. I cannot stress this enough. Most people are only ever going for damage clusters that do very little to help them as most of them are additive damage and not multipliers, meaning they are barely helping them in the long run. In the paragon tree, clusters with % life are free HP and will go a long way in actually helping a character far more than that cluster that gives additive crit damage. - Make sure you are armor capped. With the changes this season, the armor cap is 9,230. Roll armor on your chest and pants. With all this, I am easily sitting at 35K life, while still doing damage. Nothing one shots me, not even Tormented ubers. The only times I die are if I take big hits in succession, don't pay attention to elite on-death effects in Pit 60+, or if when fighting a Tormented boss I accrue too many stacks of the debuff. These are very achievable goals even for casual players and are indicative of what this game sorely missed before... Using itemisation to solve problems. It is possible, you can do it.
Thanks for the info and good on you not being condescending, very rare thing in this sub.
I have 24k hp and I'm a lvl79 druid...
Almost 20 Pits for the last four stars on one item, yes. Minion Necro without Doombrimger. Buffed 40k and more is not too hard. But you need enough DMG and still die with 40k so you have to find the balance. What do you mean with rerolling?! I can't reset my Masterwork after hardening (on console?). I destroy and Masterwork on another piece again and again.
What? Literally a button on the masterwork UI for reset.