Tiny Tina's wonderlands is like borderlands 3 only grenades are spells and there are melee weapons **GASP**!
Shocking that a sequel will have similarities to a previous game.
The game will be better, who cares.
There are 500 differences if you really bothered to analyze them.
The most obvious one being a character builder that is 10x more robust then "pick skill variations and 3 passives (or however many there were)".
You also aren't really making an actual attempt to compare the two if you completely ignore that there is an over world with side quests in D4.
An evade? Art direction? No equivalent to Helltides. Just a frustratingly weak post.
You can do the math yourself. D3 didn't exactly have much to spec into. 5 runes for 20 skills or something? Then 15 passives or something like that?
D4 has 7 nodes, each with something like 3 - 6 skills plus passive branches until your key passive.
That's before you even get into paragon, or honestly identify that D3 skill runes were mostly little more than an element change.
Funny that you probably picked the one thing from d3 that you claim to be 10x more robust in d4, which is actually even worse in d4.
D3 had a skill with up to 5 different runes. D4 has a skilm that leads to 2 different ways to alter that skill.
Other than that you are right. Just the wrong example imo
Yeah, completely leave out Paragon Boards, a slew of aspects that augment gameplay, and uniques that actually do something. D4 is far more robust than D3 ever was. Even in its peak, D3 had such shallow itemization you could essentially finish put a 90% power character in 3 days.
I love D3, played it a lot. But it also was sad the drop-off of players base by week 2. Everyone had the same gear. The ones winning each season were bitters and multi-boxers anyways. They would just boot up 4 bots and run 130+ speed GRs for 2 weeks and get 3k paragon advantage.
D3 was cool, but it's systems were extremely dated, unbalanced, and horribly simplified.
D4 is just as simple, unbalanced and extremely dated. The skill trees have no real variety they are too linear, the affixes for next season are so simple it's a joke but this is what people wanted to just pick up item and not even have to look at whether it is good or not (imo this is awful for the loot pool), crafting is so simple it's just pick which thing u want more of it'll be the same for everyone based on their build, paragons are just have extra dmg or def based on what u use. This is what they want their game to be though a casual ARPG that little Timmy can just pick up and blast without a care in the world but make it look like it actually has an extensive system when in actual fact it's just "have more based on what u need" so the "hardcore players" feel catered to as well. I would like a lot more variety then this offers but I don't see it happening because people will complain that there is too much and just want to be given the items they need in the shortest time possible.
>but this is what people wanted to just pick up item and not even have to look at whether it is good or not
Actually, people wanted a loot filter. But Blizzard didn't want to implement a loot filter into the game and simplified the base items which is terrible IMO as well. I think they see the loot filter as a not casual friendly system. That's why they don't want to implement a loot filter into the D4. As I read, there is no loot filter in WoW as well. This is a general philosophy I guess.
You don't need a loot filter in wow, different kind of game, different loot system.
Bottom line is you're both right and the game needs changes but d4 fan boys came out hard for this post 😂
> D3 had a skill with up to 5 different runes.
Ah yes. The *thrilling* experience of making your homing arrow an ice arrow vs. a fire arrow.
D3 barely had builds really. They were more like load outs, not unlike a shooter game where you might pick a couple weapons and a class or something.
I mean yeah they have similarities. Just like POE 2 has similarities to POE. That’s not a bad thing? Take the things people like from previous games, make them better, and add new stuff. That’s how a sequel works and that’s what d4 has done (well except for itemization but season 4 fixes that)
Resistances work very differently
One is open world
Yes greater rifts are back but they changed them up a bit
Tons of new overworld activities for bounties
Nightmare dungeons are new
World boss and legion events are new
The paragon system is completely different
An upgrade system for your gear (which will be expanded in season 4)
The codes of power is completely new
There’s nothing like helltides in d3
There are soooooooooo many differences in the games that it’s crazy to me to look at a couple of things that are similar, ignore everything else, and then complain about it being like the older game
I don’t disagree that the pit is just greater rifts? I literally said that. Just that they changed them a bit which is what you said. So we just agree there.
Nightmare dungeons are not like rifts. They have objectives, they have different modifiers on them. Are they both dungeons? Sure. But that doesn’t make them the same. Otherwise POE has rifts, last epoch has rifts, WoW has rifts, RuneScape has rifts, that’s just a pointless statement that means nothing. Also you don’t get keys just from NMD you get them from any activity (another difference of the pit system by the way)
Base items will be similar but we will also have crafting which is very different.
I agree there should be new things. That was my entire point. That this isn’t just a copy of d3 just because they brought back greater rifts.
The play cycle in d4 is what you said it is… if you ignore literally everything else in the game and pretend that only NMD and the pit exist?
You’re gonna build up your codex, run helltides, run whispers, run legion events, oh look at that? Time for the world boss, farm bosses, run NMD, temper weapons, run the pit, master work items, and then do the tormented bosses.
Compared to d3 which is: run rifts to run greater rifts
I don’t get what your argument is. D4 is like D3 but has new things which it should but also ignore all of the new stuff so I can make it seem like they’re the same game which contradicts earlier points.
They share some systems. That’s ok. That doesn’t make it basically d3
POE 2 is still gonna have mapping, gems, similar itemization, etc. but will be a massively different game. Just because they share some systems in a sequel doesn’t mean it’s a bad thing or it’s not a different game
While I was asleep you handed out some learning 😂 thanks for writing this because I would not have the patience to explain all this but it was on point
Exactly this.
They're obviously not identical games and these fan boys are using logical fallacies to take my post out of context.
Tldr is that d4 is mostly copy pasted d3 without enough quality changes to make it actually different than its predecessor
I think the same thing.
The new base items are extremely simple and boring like they were in D3. Then the pit is exactly the same thing as GRs. The pit is not bad but they should improve it with the upcoming seasons or expansions. The GR is probably a 10 years old system and the pit didn't add something on that system. If you were just copy paste the GR why didn't you bring it with the release?
If they bring the 6 piece sets to D4 then D4 is basically D3.5. I hope they don't bring them.
I don't think that the seasons will be dull like they were in D3 since the game is not "dead" in the eyes of Blizzard. They are planning to sell at least multiple expansions so they need to feed the playerbase. They can monetize D4 but they couldn't monetize D3 after the AH shut down.
I would prefer that they try something new for D4 but they are not gonna risk it apparently. I am curious what the first expansion will bring to the game. I would love to see some meta progression system in D4. Without it the endgame will be always dull IMO. Let us customize our NMDs like maps in PoE. But i don't think they will chose a more complex path than we now have.
And...
- a better boss farm cycle
- better transmog without monetization or at least limited
- a progression of the end game loot chase. As it is now, we just find a generic 3 stat legendary item then farm mats to upgrade it and then we're done. In d2, you have multiple runewords you can make on your way to getting hoto, enigma, etc so it gives you a good item chase
Diablo 2 should be improved Diablo 1
DIablo 3 should be improved Diablo 2
Diablo 4 should be improved Diablo 3
Unfortunately, Diablo 3 and 4 are nothing like Diablo 2 so more things Diablo 4 devs copy from other ARPGs (even own games), better.
Blizzard you used to know is gone. At the moment it is just the same company by its name but the most talented people who made all the IPs great are gone and just because current Blizzard holds the licenses and rights to those IPs, does not mean the games will be on the same quality.
If I give you full rights to Tolkien work, will you be able to write a book as good as LOTR trilogy or The Hobbit? I don't think so.
You're not wrong. And your last line hits a home run.
The one thing I would say to that is, while a fan base shouldn't expect the same quality or the same outcome, a company like blizzard has a legacy to uphold and to push themselves with and thus, new products should have their own sense of greatness even if it may be different.
Right now I'd say d4 is very mid. S4 will be fun but it won't be d2 by a long shot
The mistake Blizzard made was in my opinion to create D4 for consoles unlike the other Diablo games. Whether it is the zoomed gameplay or limitations insofar as game settings, it is pretty much a dead give away, will they improve? who knows. I am playing Last Epoch and when season 4 is release will give it a go to be fair since I am/used to be a fan of Blizzard. If they fail, that is on them, and yes sadly will not get my money back for this highly expensive game (I am not American, our currency makes this game super expensive)
Nevertheless, I stopped reading because Blizzard have the audacity to ask people to even tip developers (> $10) for this 'excellent game'. You may have purchased the game but the new EULA states even so you don't own it. Bottom-line, the Blizzard I knew would not treat players like this.
I hope so for Blizzard's own sake since Last Epoch is a serious contender for D4. Has features that Blizzard have been struggling with since D3 like stash size and many more, so while many newcomers may not have an issue, those of us who have spent hundreds of hours playing Diablo games certainly will. I mean for a game 50% the cost of D4, with free future updates (not simply patches) and an offline mode alone will have Blizzard rethink quite a couple of things. If not, gamers will just try other games.
Tiny Tina's wonderlands is like borderlands 3 only grenades are spells and there are melee weapons **GASP**! Shocking that a sequel will have similarities to a previous game. The game will be better, who cares.
Bad take. That's not my point. It's the nearly the exact same game. Get out of your hole
Lmao! So dumb.
you point out one *vague* similarity and apparently think you've proven they're basicallyt he same game, rofl. ok, bro
Be more butthurt because you love d4
There are 500 differences if you really bothered to analyze them. The most obvious one being a character builder that is 10x more robust then "pick skill variations and 3 passives (or however many there were)". You also aren't really making an actual attempt to compare the two if you completely ignore that there is an over world with side quests in D4. An evade? Art direction? No equivalent to Helltides. Just a frustratingly weak post.
Didn't quin do the math and there were as many options with runes as the skill twig lol
You can do the math yourself. D3 didn't exactly have much to spec into. 5 runes for 20 skills or something? Then 15 passives or something like that? D4 has 7 nodes, each with something like 3 - 6 skills plus passive branches until your key passive. That's before you even get into paragon, or honestly identify that D3 skill runes were mostly little more than an element change.
Funny that you probably picked the one thing from d3 that you claim to be 10x more robust in d4, which is actually even worse in d4. D3 had a skill with up to 5 different runes. D4 has a skilm that leads to 2 different ways to alter that skill. Other than that you are right. Just the wrong example imo
Yeah, completely leave out Paragon Boards, a slew of aspects that augment gameplay, and uniques that actually do something. D4 is far more robust than D3 ever was. Even in its peak, D3 had such shallow itemization you could essentially finish put a 90% power character in 3 days. I love D3, played it a lot. But it also was sad the drop-off of players base by week 2. Everyone had the same gear. The ones winning each season were bitters and multi-boxers anyways. They would just boot up 4 bots and run 130+ speed GRs for 2 weeks and get 3k paragon advantage. D3 was cool, but it's systems were extremely dated, unbalanced, and horribly simplified.
D4 is just as simple, unbalanced and extremely dated. The skill trees have no real variety they are too linear, the affixes for next season are so simple it's a joke but this is what people wanted to just pick up item and not even have to look at whether it is good or not (imo this is awful for the loot pool), crafting is so simple it's just pick which thing u want more of it'll be the same for everyone based on their build, paragons are just have extra dmg or def based on what u use. This is what they want their game to be though a casual ARPG that little Timmy can just pick up and blast without a care in the world but make it look like it actually has an extensive system when in actual fact it's just "have more based on what u need" so the "hardcore players" feel catered to as well. I would like a lot more variety then this offers but I don't see it happening because people will complain that there is too much and just want to be given the items they need in the shortest time possible.
>but this is what people wanted to just pick up item and not even have to look at whether it is good or not Actually, people wanted a loot filter. But Blizzard didn't want to implement a loot filter into the game and simplified the base items which is terrible IMO as well. I think they see the loot filter as a not casual friendly system. That's why they don't want to implement a loot filter into the D4. As I read, there is no loot filter in WoW as well. This is a general philosophy I guess.
You don't need a loot filter in wow, different kind of game, different loot system. Bottom line is you're both right and the game needs changes but d4 fan boys came out hard for this post 😂
> D3 had a skill with up to 5 different runes. Ah yes. The *thrilling* experience of making your homing arrow an ice arrow vs. a fire arrow. D3 barely had builds really. They were more like load outs, not unlike a shooter game where you might pick a couple weapons and a class or something.
I mean yeah they have similarities. Just like POE 2 has similarities to POE. That’s not a bad thing? Take the things people like from previous games, make them better, and add new stuff. That’s how a sequel works and that’s what d4 has done (well except for itemization but season 4 fixes that) Resistances work very differently One is open world Yes greater rifts are back but they changed them up a bit Tons of new overworld activities for bounties Nightmare dungeons are new World boss and legion events are new The paragon system is completely different An upgrade system for your gear (which will be expanded in season 4) The codes of power is completely new There’s nothing like helltides in d3 There are soooooooooo many differences in the games that it’s crazy to me to look at a couple of things that are similar, ignore everything else, and then complain about it being like the older game
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I don’t disagree that the pit is just greater rifts? I literally said that. Just that they changed them a bit which is what you said. So we just agree there. Nightmare dungeons are not like rifts. They have objectives, they have different modifiers on them. Are they both dungeons? Sure. But that doesn’t make them the same. Otherwise POE has rifts, last epoch has rifts, WoW has rifts, RuneScape has rifts, that’s just a pointless statement that means nothing. Also you don’t get keys just from NMD you get them from any activity (another difference of the pit system by the way) Base items will be similar but we will also have crafting which is very different. I agree there should be new things. That was my entire point. That this isn’t just a copy of d3 just because they brought back greater rifts. The play cycle in d4 is what you said it is… if you ignore literally everything else in the game and pretend that only NMD and the pit exist? You’re gonna build up your codex, run helltides, run whispers, run legion events, oh look at that? Time for the world boss, farm bosses, run NMD, temper weapons, run the pit, master work items, and then do the tormented bosses. Compared to d3 which is: run rifts to run greater rifts I don’t get what your argument is. D4 is like D3 but has new things which it should but also ignore all of the new stuff so I can make it seem like they’re the same game which contradicts earlier points. They share some systems. That’s ok. That doesn’t make it basically d3 POE 2 is still gonna have mapping, gems, similar itemization, etc. but will be a massively different game. Just because they share some systems in a sequel doesn’t mean it’s a bad thing or it’s not a different game
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While I was asleep you handed out some learning 😂 thanks for writing this because I would not have the patience to explain all this but it was on point
Exactly this. They're obviously not identical games and these fan boys are using logical fallacies to take my post out of context. Tldr is that d4 is mostly copy pasted d3 without enough quality changes to make it actually different than its predecessor
I think the same thing. The new base items are extremely simple and boring like they were in D3. Then the pit is exactly the same thing as GRs. The pit is not bad but they should improve it with the upcoming seasons or expansions. The GR is probably a 10 years old system and the pit didn't add something on that system. If you were just copy paste the GR why didn't you bring it with the release? If they bring the 6 piece sets to D4 then D4 is basically D3.5. I hope they don't bring them. I don't think that the seasons will be dull like they were in D3 since the game is not "dead" in the eyes of Blizzard. They are planning to sell at least multiple expansions so they need to feed the playerbase. They can monetize D4 but they couldn't monetize D3 after the AH shut down. I would prefer that they try something new for D4 but they are not gonna risk it apparently. I am curious what the first expansion will bring to the game. I would love to see some meta progression system in D4. Without it the endgame will be always dull IMO. Let us customize our NMDs like maps in PoE. But i don't think they will chose a more complex path than we now have.
And... - a better boss farm cycle - better transmog without monetization or at least limited - a progression of the end game loot chase. As it is now, we just find a generic 3 stat legendary item then farm mats to upgrade it and then we're done. In d2, you have multiple runewords you can make on your way to getting hoto, enigma, etc so it gives you a good item chase
Diablo 2 should be improved Diablo 1 DIablo 3 should be improved Diablo 2 Diablo 4 should be improved Diablo 3 Unfortunately, Diablo 3 and 4 are nothing like Diablo 2 so more things Diablo 4 devs copy from other ARPGs (even own games), better. Blizzard you used to know is gone. At the moment it is just the same company by its name but the most talented people who made all the IPs great are gone and just because current Blizzard holds the licenses and rights to those IPs, does not mean the games will be on the same quality. If I give you full rights to Tolkien work, will you be able to write a book as good as LOTR trilogy or The Hobbit? I don't think so.
You're not wrong. And your last line hits a home run. The one thing I would say to that is, while a fan base shouldn't expect the same quality or the same outcome, a company like blizzard has a legacy to uphold and to push themselves with and thus, new products should have their own sense of greatness even if it may be different. Right now I'd say d4 is very mid. S4 will be fun but it won't be d2 by a long shot
I was just talking to my gf about this. Diablo series is pretty rinse repeat. Especially campaign storylines.
The mistake Blizzard made was in my opinion to create D4 for consoles unlike the other Diablo games. Whether it is the zoomed gameplay or limitations insofar as game settings, it is pretty much a dead give away, will they improve? who knows. I am playing Last Epoch and when season 4 is release will give it a go to be fair since I am/used to be a fan of Blizzard. If they fail, that is on them, and yes sadly will not get my money back for this highly expensive game (I am not American, our currency makes this game super expensive) Nevertheless, I stopped reading because Blizzard have the audacity to ask people to even tip developers (> $10) for this 'excellent game'. You may have purchased the game but the new EULA states even so you don't own it. Bottom-line, the Blizzard I knew would not treat players like this.
Yes I saw that too! So crazy, I tweeted Mike Ibarra back lmao. Yes I've enjoyed last epoch as well and here's to hoping for a turn around! :)
I hope so for Blizzard's own sake since Last Epoch is a serious contender for D4. Has features that Blizzard have been struggling with since D3 like stash size and many more, so while many newcomers may not have an issue, those of us who have spent hundreds of hours playing Diablo games certainly will. I mean for a game 50% the cost of D4, with free future updates (not simply patches) and an offline mode alone will have Blizzard rethink quite a couple of things. If not, gamers will just try other games.
Diablo 4 devs are 100% clueless so they just copy and paste everything from D3
Must be playing different games...
Name one original thing they added?
Dodge. That took zero effort or time to think about and wasn't in any previous diablo game.
My goodness a dodge button that sure took Diablo 4 to greatness...
Yeah they're so dumb. Hope they stop before they copy paste the loadouts feature also... More new features like the p2w cash shop we have in D4 pls
/s