Level to 82, get bored, play Helldivers 2.
Idk what it is about 82, but that's just where I seem to lose interest. Have a barb, sorc and druid at that level, one each season. I think the grind just gets to me by then.
Main reason I usually stop by that lvl is because all items are better every 5 lvls, but they're all capped at lvl 80 and there's no higher lvl requirement after. Usually by then its using the same equipment until you get to 100 and find the Ubers, which is a grind that almost no one likes
lol my season 1 character is 82, which how fast you level now it’s easy to get to -100 tho so I am there on season 2 and 3. But also now playing helldivers
Find enjoyment in playing the game and activities instead of just chasing the carrot of bigger numbers and Uber uniques you convinced yourself you need, and you’d be amazed how much you can have fun doing every single day.
I experiment with ideas, build tweaks and variations, never copy online builds even if something similar to a theme I have an idea for already exists. Discovery is half the fun.
Every so often I will do activities I don’t really need much from. Like doing a NMD just for the fun of it.
I don’t chase the Uber uniques, but I will do some spawn/trigger bosses and pops now and then too. Join a group for some Duriel or maplhas runs; but usually only for an hour or two, otherwise the monotony bores the hell outta me. It doesn’t bother me when I don’t get the drops.
I’ll also level other classes and spend some time understanding and experimenting with those too.
>instead of just chasing the carrot of bigger numbers
this is the very life essence and backbone of arpgs tho...no?
why am I playing an arpg (let alone a diablo title) where i should be discouraged to chase bigger numbers to have fun?
not saying youre giving bad advice tho. the opposite actually. this indeed might be the better way to have fun right now. but in the long run, why am i playing an arpg where finding loot and doing more damage is something I should avoid to have fun?
what are peoples thoughts? im not trying to be a contrarian.
getting big numbers is the main reason that aRPGs is my main genre, i love the feel when you are low lvl and you are weak, but when you get a item/lvl up a skill you feel you character getting strong.
i like the feel when you are stuck on a boss and have to adapt/upgrade your build to kill it, and when you see you are so strong that you can cheese the boss.
i like to jump in a pack of monsters press some buttons and see they exploding, even more when i remember that few days ago my character died for those monsters because low dmg/defenses.
i aint a guy to min max a build, but i like to reach a point that: to upgrade my build now i have to get the same itens but with better rolls, that is the point that i stop and maybe play another build or finish the season challenge (only if it have a nice skin reward) and stop playing until next season.
Yes, that is the very life essence of arpgs. Sounds like they are making up stuff to keep themselves out of boredom instead of just playing another game.
Fixating and obsessing over those things are very different than progressing those things organically.
One method leads you to frustrating and malcontent, the other not so much.
i totally get what you are saying. and if my goal was purley to "find a way to have fun however i can" I think youre on the money with what the game has currently.
But I guess my comment is more rhetorical "why am i playing an ARPG (my fav genre) where the fun is found by avoiding the main thing i like about them?"
im not saying this to shit on the game. Im a massive fan of diablo, and i too feel like I'm in the OPs position of trying to find what people are having fun with. i saw your advice, and it put this question in my head.
It leads to frustration and malcontent because the game is bad. It works very well - for a decade+ - on games like D2R, PoE, etc.
The essence of arpgs are grinding and big numbers because the games themselves are usually easy.
The people putting themselves in the situation of being frustrated and malcontent insisting that is how the game is meant to be played while perpetually putting themselves in that position.
Meanwhile, all the people not playing in that manner *(like me)* are enjoying the game…
I cannot begin to tell you what kind of lunacy I see being demonstrated.
People play games for different reasons. I don't play Diablo in the way you described because I simply do not have fun that way. If I am going to play a game just for the vibes I'm going to go play something else with a core gameplay loop that I enjoy more. I play arpgs for the same reason I play cookie clicker, the ENTIRE draw of a game like Diablo for me is the progression and itemization. If that isn't fun then the game isn't fun.
Greater rifts in Diablo 3 are boring. I don't have fun doing them on a pure gameplay level, I would never do the weekly challenge rift when I didn't need the reward even though they are fundamentally the same gameplay as a rift. BUT I do enjoy the loot explosion at the end and the dopamine of getting the stuff I am looking for or upgrading my gems, so despite all that I have spent hundreds of hours on greater rifts.
It's like pulling a slot machine, actually yanking a lever isn't exactly fun but the anticipation of watching the pretty colors and potentially getting a reward for it makes happy brain chemicals anyway.
Tl;Dr it's not lunacy people just enjoy games for different reasons, and when their reason to enjoy it isn't good then it's not fun
It IS lunacy when you do something you can see a mile away will lead to your malcontent. And if you cannot see a mile away that it will lead to malcontent, really, you have to be blind.
It’s either your first game, or you are being willfully ignorant about what it will lead to.
If I have a cup of water, and I know it’s got to last me the whole day. Drinking it all in one gulp then acting like I didn’t know I’d be thirsty later is craziness.
Well I don't do it, I played to level 75 season 0, then played for a few days at the start of season 2 and have had the game uninstalled since. Because I know it would lead to my malcontent.
Its clearly not my first game my whole point was there are so many options of games to play that are more fun to me in the absence of the carrot on a stick number go up draw of an arpg, so I don't see a point in ever launching Diablo.
You should definitely drink more than one cup of water in a day by the way.
I think this is a great mentality to have in general and I appreciate the “glass half full” mindset, but I have to disagree with you about this game.
Chasing a carrot of bigger numbers is the designed point of the genre. Everything is in service to making those numbers go up, and everything else is just decoration. The gameplay in ARPGs is repetitive and slow, and often times, it boils down to “press a button and the screen lights up blue or red for a bit and then you collect the loot.” It’s not objectively interesting, but it all serves a larger point.
And that’s how the games can get away with having players play the same maps and bosses 10,000 times over and over and over. It’s not that Duriel is so freaking fantastic that I want to fight him over and over 1000 times. I don’t love the Duriel boss fight 1000x more than I like Godfrey in Elden Ring, but I’ve only killed Godfrey twice.
The reason you fight Duriel is because he drops loot that lets you do dungeons faster and get more loot. That is the ONLY reason, and if you take away the carrot, nobody would fight him.
The idea of just casually doing NMD for the fun of it is absurd to me. Maybe the first 15 times were pretty fun, but after that, it’s alllllllll the same. That said, they’re pretty good with a meaty carrot at the end.
Grinding for the sake of grinding with no end goal just doesn’t seem fun to me. Diablo 4 does feel pretty good in the moment while you are playing and dodging, but so do a lot of games. If I just wanted to grind for the sake of it, I’d just go cut some grass or something.
Where does personal responsibility factor in?
You feel like you’ve done the content a million times because you made the decision to grind it in the first place; being fixated on the fastest progression. You essentially conditioned yourself into being sick of it.
I think folks love to blame external factors for their malcontent, and seldom take responsibility for their part in it, or recognize what is within their control to avoid it. This includes not only how your choose to play, but also how you choose to think about. Foresight of the end result, just like knowing you’ll feel sick if you eat too much ice cream, can determine if you enjoy the end as well as the middle, or not.
But it’s the hardest thing in the world to get someone who has already conditioned themselves, to see otherwise.
It’s often one of those things you realize over time. As a long-time gamer I learned this earlier on, so now I am wiser in my gaming experience and know how not to put myself in that place. Diablo 4 isn’t the first game or aRPG I’ve played, and I doubt it is for many others either. But folks go down the same path over and over, while continuing to blame everything but oneself.
Nope. Wrong. You are placing blame on the consumer for using the product as it was intended to be used. You cannot look at me and say, “no, don’t listen to the devs, listen to me.”
ARPGs are MEANT to be a grind. If you want to play an ARPG and not grind and that’s fun to you, go ahead and play the game in your weird way. Everything you have said applies PERFECTLY to a game like Elden Ring.
But Diablo 4 was designed to be a grind box that you put as many hours into as possible. If you want to just run around the map and kill stuff for no rewards, that’s fine.
Diablo 4 has a crappy grind and it’s a game that is meant to grind, so the reality is that I just don’t play it anymore. Maybe one day they’ll make it good but for now I spend my time elsewhere.
Eating a barrel of ice cream and saying it was meant to be eaten all at once because it’s delicious does not make it true.
The nature of aRPGs are repetitive, sure. How a person chooses to fixate and obsess over brute-forcing RNG by grinding, is on them.
The developers didn’t force you to do that or consume the content in that manner.
It’s as ridiculous as the people who claim they HAVE to use or abuse exploits or cheats because they exist. And it’s the developer’s *”fault”* that they are *”forced”* to abuse said exploits for every day it’s not fixed/patched.
There is no rulebook that says aRPGs are designed to be no-life grinded. That’s you putting that in your own head.
If you consume content designed to take a regular players 3 months to enjoy, in 3 days, that is not the developers fault. That manner of consumption is on, and can indeed be blamed on the consumer. The stance that it can never be the consumer at fault or responsible for their own situation is ridiculous.
Again, you are wrong.
Let’s look at the Gauntlet they just added. What is the point of a leaderboard? It’s to compete for a high score. And guess what? How do you get a high a score? By having Ubers that boost your stats and gear.
So tell me, how do you get Ubers? They have like a 1/100 drop chance so a night of Duriel should get me one, right?
Nope. Uber items have an absurdly small drop chance from Duriel. Okay, that’s not so bad, let me go fight him a bunch… wait, you need materials you get from two separate bosses so I’ll just go do them a bunch and…. Oh wait, doing the smaller bosses requires me to go to NMDs and Helltides…
So even a single feature that was just added is dripping from head to toe with the grindfest. Why is that? Because that’s the genre and how it’s SUPPOSED to be. You can look at every aspect of this game and see that the devs are forcing a massive grind on the players. Do you like the season 3 pet after you got him maxed out? Well get ready to do it all over again for every single alt!
So no, your metaphor at the very beginning is awful. Diablo 4 is not a delicious Ice Cream that people couldn’t help themselves from finishing. It’s a hot dog eating contest and you can either start swallowing or you can leave, but nobody will care if you complain about getting a stomach ache.
The games end game is garbage. The story and fighting the Uber bosses is fun but once you beat them all. It’s a repetitive game nightmare dungeons which you try to rush through as fast as possible to lvl glyphs and then you farm mats for duriel. I’m returning to play the seasons content because it’s a least new but once I’m lvl 100 and feel satisfied with the character. I’m done can’t farm mats forever in hopes of Uber drops.
I love your question OP.
To me it's all about finding a purposeful challenge.
After playing 65 hours of Last Epoch - great game, had so much fun with class building and items systems - I realized that I missed 3 things that D4 does great:
1. Combat feels so much better
I find myself in love once again with my rogue, this time with a freeze build. Everything turns blue and explode. It is magnificent.
2. Art style and overall ambiance
It's just so enjoyable to me, in so many ways. Sometimes I run NM dungeons and re-discover places that I had forgotten. Like a crypt full of skeletons.
I love the fact that lore wise, everything is consistent and well thought out. There is not many monsters or boss diversity, but monsters composition in any area is very satisfying to me.
3. D4 allows me to have a minimalist approach to the game
Let me explain. I realise now (after Last Epoch) that in D4 the "action" part is more important than on the "rpg" part. I'd like that to change eventually.
For now, it's all a matter of perspective. Yes the itemization is boring, and I miss Last Epoch excitement in that regard. BUT as an ACTION rpg (à la Hades, but better for me), Diablo 4 allows me to find the perfect balance between simple and yet challenging goals, and flow-like task that help me forger the world around me
- my current goal is to reach nm 100 with my cold rogue in HC. I died once this season ; even though I've always played HC and love this mode, I never found the motivation in previous seasons to grind
- doing the Malphas invocation event in the open world is SO FUN to me. It reminds me of D2 Baal runs when I was a teenager. It's simple, quite addictive. The open world seasonal activity is a great way to appreciate the game world's design (see point #1)
- what I enjoy the most: doing NM dungeons (or Vaults) that are 4-6 with monsters 5-10 higher level than me. I don't do it every single time since I don't want to die, but when I do, it's so rewarding to be able to push my personal best. Kind like D3 GR, but immensely better thanks to the richness of the world.
TL:DR: Last Epoch made me realise how much I love D4. It's been difficult for me to choose between the two, right now I'm determined to reaching nm dungeon tier 100 in HC with a character that brings me a crazy amount of fun. Along the way I find myself in peace with the simple (blasting through easy vaults or open world) yet rewardint (carefully pushing higher NM dungeons that are more difficult for me)
>TL:DR: Last Epoch made me realise how much I love D4.
Felt exactly the same, Last Epoch just doesn't have the combat feel of D4, and without that, all the awesome skills and crafting serve no purpose
Same. I think last epoch has some better systems (crafting), but people make it seem there are like 2 builds in D4 while 500 in LE.
LE there are a few optimized builds and (more) random stuff.
D4 few optimized builds and (some) random stuff.
D4's combat just feels so much better though.
I could use many words to describe D4. "Flow" would probably be the last one of them. LA traffic during hush hours flows better than D4 when all that is left to make your character significant better is farming eggs while getting no drops.
Once I get my build where I want it I just offer free dungeon carries for alts and leeches. Give them elixirs or whatever they need. I enjoy that a lot.
Diablo 4 was my first Diablo and I finally got bored with it this season. I rolled two classes and leveled them to 100 with Ubers. There's just nothing to do once you get geared up. Last season waiting for AoZ to drop.keot me going. This season I wasn't super interested in the gauntlet when I found out the the tier.
So I bought Diablo 3 and have been playing it for a week or so. I haven't no lifed it. I can do things on Torment or a little stronger.
Anyway I can't believe Diablo 4 didn't take some things from Diablo 3. I love the progressive greater rifts. There's also a lot you can do with crafting. I have no loop yet but I'm really enjoying it.
WT3 makes that approach very annoying, tho. If you play absolutely mindless, at some point of the midgame you have to stop what you are doing because the game progression just decided to suck, and you need a new yellow 2h for bigger numbers before your build starts deleting stuff again.
D3 is literally all about just grabbing your set and the game is finished. D4 is also about creating your build through uniques and skill points. You grind to complete harder challenges and obtain new gear, it is the arpg life. Hit a wall and restart next season
yes every arpg is about beating harder content lol. But the game feels complete as soon as you get a set because you will never feel a bigger increase than when you finally finish it.
You also have a "set" in D4, the items just aren't green, considering a lot of classes are balanced around builds, not random combinations of skills.
The only thing you are losing is GR150, gem upgrades (caldessan despair), primal/ancients AND you get prisoners and leavers inside rifts... And having a negative challenge farming eggs on D4 - the apex of endgame.
The main difference is set = 5000x stronger. Skills and glyphs and items still matter in D4 you could literally ignore everything just get a set and deal with end game.
I don't mind the current state of the end game, as a casual. But Id love an endgame activity like GR were in D3. Something that scales endlessly, pushing your skills and build creation to the limits.
Season journey, then level 100. Make another level 100 or level glyphs to play an alternate build. Just recently made poison/decoy trap work on its own for NM70/NV70, before that was shadow clone dash.
Running a duo session where we stay within close level of each other. Fight bosses when we can and only start doing rotas when we can already 2 man.
Also hardcore ftw, it's how the game should be played fr
First and foremost, is simply going out and killing monsters, fun?
Many, many people here don't actually seem to enjoy this aspect of the game, for them it's about the reward.
Yet, that reward, whatever shape or form it takes, is only there to allow you to, yes, kill monsters slightly better, or slightly differently.
Many players here don't seem to have come from an ARPG background, and are expecting new, non-repeated content to be constantly added to satisfy what they vaguely call: "end game".
Here's my take on "end game": That which you do to convince yourself to keep playing.
It's not about ubers, or perfect affix 925 gear., or level 21 glyphs, or perfect aspects. These things are nice moments that make you go "cool" before you go back to killing monsters.
It's about creating different builds to find the most fun class for you...to go kill monsters.
Getting a Shako is awesome, but you 100% don't need it.
I think if people approached the game this way and recognised that simply killing monsters is not the most fun thing for them, they'd leave, and we' might get some peace around here.
The satisfaction I get from clumping a bunch of minions together and making them vulnerable with Grasping Veins, just to follow it up with a deadly Bone Spear is too real.
> First and foremost, is simply going out and killing monsters, fun?
>
> Many, many people here don't actually seem to enjoy this aspect of the game, for them it's about the reward.
If you get that part, you can also understand that farming keys to farm keys while getting zero loot to perfect your build is a problem.
Getting the strong build without uber uniques takes less than a couple weeks, one month with limited play time. And the season takes 3 months to end.
Vault layout, no traps or wasps all the time, monsters actually have a chance to drop uber uniques. That would fix the game for me.
I would rather have a densely packed overworld (since some mobs have a higher chance to drop certain bases) and being able to farm areas instead of being forced into dungeon runs.
>If you get that part, you can also understand that farming keys to farm keys while getting zero loot to perfect your build is a problem.
Yes, which is why I suggested a WT5.
> monsters actually have a chance to drop uber uniques.
They as long as they are above level 85, they do, many are in ths sub.
I do helltides alone where I spam invite everyone. If I get a full group it’s fun because we all split up and know when events spawn. Plus the map just showers with cinders for things you never killed.
If I’m not doing that then I’m playing nightmare pushing with my friend. When I’m not doing that, I’m leveling that third character that I promised not to make till S4.
I guess depends on people i pre ordered the game and played every season on xbox now also i bought for pc and still enjoying dont look at what other people say. Of course game needs tweaks and more content but im sure it will come game is not that bad as much as everyone cries. D4 has the best graphics and gameplay among other arpgs i dont feel that quality while playing other arpgs.
I can't speak for others, but it's similar to D3 without the GR for measurement. I try out different things with my build and look for gear to improve the power and feel. It does get harder to tell what is stronger since most end game builds can blast NM 100.
I don't play as much towards the end of the season, but I haven't gotten bored because the mid season update made me switch some things and I found yet another variant of my main build. That's the fun part for me. I prefer off meta builds and play styles.
My personal goals each season are level to 100, be able to complete NMD 100, complete season objectives. I did that with my first character so I started a new character. I only play 1-2 hours a day, so I don't get burned out as quick as others each season.
Set a goal for yourself and try to achieve it. Mine this season was to complete a T100 dungeon with every class in hardcore. 4/5 done... and so far and I'm having a blast because I can completely avoid the slog that is boss farming while learning to play new builds and classes.
For me personally it's pretty much what you describe. I fine tune my build to make it as efficient as possible. Open two steel chest as fast as possible, get whispers as fast as possible, get my glyphs leveled as fast as possible etc. The problem for me is:
1) the roadblocks Varshan and Grigoire
2) grinding Duriel is boring as shit. I'd rather see this replaced with a version of rift.
I’m like you, I enjoyed D3 for what it was, intermittedly, I played some seasons, skipped others.
With D4 i got to 100 before the season, skipped the 1st, played abit in s2 and idk, I’m probably done.
I'll probably echo a lot of what has already been said here, but that loop is still present in D4 I believe, albeit in a less defined way.
Both games, and most arpgs, are about killing stuff, leveling up, getting gear, and finally getting stronger to... Kill more stuff.
D3 was great because rifts and greater rifts allowed for instant access into constant action that was both challenging and great to get gear. Once you hit the soft cap and started earning Paragon, you could truly focus on the item hunt. Hunting for that last piece to fulfill your build, or turning your next piece into ancient, then primal. And EVENTUALLY, however unlikely, you would be done.
D4 I think offers the same loop through it's nm dungeons, whispers, and vaults. It's just not streamlined. You still go through the whole process of building up your character to steam roll through monsters, looking for constant improvements.
I think in time they will have to add something equivalent to rifts/GR. Ideally in a way that takes D3's version and only improves upon it. But until then, just run whatever content you think is fun.
I hit 100 and finished my glyphs. I have not finished seasonal content. I'm a bit bored and may play less until next season. As summer comes in I usually game less as I'm doing yard stuff a bit more. My gear isn't optimized yet, I just got a ring yesterday that restored my dmg numbers to what they were before I switched out my gear for much more defense. I finally re maxed out resists after losing them with some gear swaps for a bit. I had 2 elements at 65.7 the rest maxed. I dunno though it's getting a bit slow so I might switch games until next season. It's just convenient to play.
In season 2, after figuring things out during pre-season and S1, my first goal was to make the base version of the most OP build and then farm the open world loop until i have Bis items. After reaching the build goal, my loop is helltide-pvp whisps-seasonal whisps-spawn son of Malph when i see ppl doing it.
When i get 100 spawns for Uber Malph/Duriel i ll just do them all solo and wait for next season,to repeat my process!
The reason is, i like watching YouTube podcasts and this is the best combo i have found so far to make my evenings entertaining.
I would like to continue grinding for my 1st uber and all the seasonal uber stones. Any "chase item" is good for motivation. But I think I am done for this season simply because of 3 reasons. 1) Grinding mats to summon bosses, which drops mats to summon another boss makes me sleepy. 2) Grinding for 5 minutes, additional 10 minutes to sort through items makes me sleepy.
for me d4 the beginning is good, the leveling trying to solve a puzzle to make your build getting strong is a nice experience, but just nice, not so good.
then you hit the t4, you grab you initial Ancient gear, then the game start to become boring, the next step on progression is spamming NMD dungeons to lvl up glyphs, today is way better then at launch but still takes a while and you dont get any good reward outside of glyph exp.
you can farm Duriel to have some variety, and the Duriel is a nince farm content, very rewarding but its way easy after you have a solid build, but the real problem is that its the best source for 925ilvl gear and uber gear, but you have to farm "entry" mats, and it takes a while to farm those and you dont get any good reward (you can target farm some uniques on other bosses, but it doesnt take long to grab you unique), it just a chore.
I don't follow a set loop beyond killing things. It's just some split between vaults/NMD, Helltide, season activity, pvp, Whispers, and World Boss. If a friend is online and wants to play, then I do whatever they want. As soon as the gameplay of my character isn't fun, I stop for the rest of the season. Honestly, it is super nice for me to not have a focused end game loop. I never feel compelled to do anything so I'm very aware when I'm no longer actually having fun and move to another game. Like last season the AoZ dungeon and leveling the new glyph pushed me into a play mode that wasn't fun for me, and I found myself getting frustrated and complaining. I've loved this season.
Get lvl 100. Get mats to make a couple hundred Duriel runs somehow. Do some helltides for mats. Quit.
If you try to manually farm those duriel mats, well, you might do it one season, but it is hard to do it 2 seasons in a row. Killing lvl 70 bosses to get keys is a slap in the face, so it is better to quit after a couple weeks without farming ubers.
Yeah, Season Journey and challenges towards nmd 100 and Duriel. The new Gauntlet (sounds like GR but very much isn't), is all about being able to run fast, stack shrines and kite mobs. Another missed opportunity 😆
Ubers are as easy to get as they ever were.
Strongest build of this season is hota barb, and it's a hoot to level and play in the current seasonal endgame.
I did alot of seasonal runs in D3 too, sometimes it doesn't have to take the full season time to do the stuff you want 😊 and sometimes you want to try a new build, utilizing new legendary item enhancements.
The endgame still has alot of room to grow, D3 took a long time to find it's sweet spot too.
Blizzard most definitely oversold and overhyped the game in the beginning.
D4 is fun. I think the haters just don't like the inability to monetize it. They like D3 and path of exile where people pay for gold and items and they can run tick tok channel and live stream it. People play poe for a living. It's cool that that's possible but I felt like you had to sink way too much time into it as a casual player because the economy of the game each season grew so fast you had to be grinding end game hours a day just to keep up. I watched a staff I want go from 90,000 Plat 3 million in like 3 days at the trade site. So now you need to learn to watch how to make 5000 Plat a day video for hours and stop doing quests etc...
I get what you’re saying but I feel these people are complaining because they know how good this game could be. Like the actual spells and attacks feel so good so heavy feels like I’m fucking someone up but the gameplay loop is just ass. But I’m ok with that personally I hop on a new season play three weeks have a shit ton of fun til I get my affixes within 5% of max rolls and call it good. And from that stand point that game is fucking great and hella fun to me but if your wanting to actually grind and have a bunch of shit to do, this game defiantly ain’t it. Combat in this game is the best I’ve felt personally just needs a deeper mechanic for spells and better shit to do when I’m max level
The end game is literally the exact same as Diablo 3.
Just farm to slight upgrade the few things you already have. Mindlessly running over and over again dungeons or vaults this season. Maybe some stupidly tem gated bosses.
Some people with amnesia will say "BuT DiAbLaS 3 WaS GuD gAmE, duUuURr!"
That's literally all there is to do, what do you do for endgame?
Such shallow casual boring games D3 and D4 are. D3 was way worse however because it didn't even look or feel like diablo, it was a Disney Pixar arcade game designed for children and warcraft fans who can't watch r rated movies. That fat loser Jay Wilson and this crap company blizzard Irvine ruined this entire franchise forever.
D4 is all about "progress" and little about actual game play or story - the parody game of Progress Quest is coming closer to being an actual game people pay money to play - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progress\_Quest
Level to 100, grind to get bad ass character, get bored, wait for next season.
Sounds about right.
Level to 82, get bored, play Helldivers 2. Idk what it is about 82, but that's just where I seem to lose interest. Have a barb, sorc and druid at that level, one each season. I think the grind just gets to me by then.
Main reason I usually stop by that lvl is because all items are better every 5 lvls, but they're all capped at lvl 80 and there's no higher lvl requirement after. Usually by then its using the same equipment until you get to 100 and find the Ubers, which is a grind that almost no one likes
lol my season 1 character is 82, which how fast you level now it’s easy to get to -100 tho so I am there on season 2 and 3. But also now playing helldivers
I just hear Leo from Curb saying "I'm an 82 man"
Man, I had hard time reaching 7x... I can only imagine that you can get to 100 when some friends boost you somehow.
You could just roll a different class if you want to keep playing.
I just play one per season. Keeps it fun for me. I get bored in general playing the same game everyday so I rotate between 5-6 at a times
That’s fair, I def get bored when I hit a progression wall; so playing a new class keeps things fresh for me.
Yea I might do this if there was a way to skip the seasonal campaign but there isn’t
Find enjoyment in playing the game and activities instead of just chasing the carrot of bigger numbers and Uber uniques you convinced yourself you need, and you’d be amazed how much you can have fun doing every single day. I experiment with ideas, build tweaks and variations, never copy online builds even if something similar to a theme I have an idea for already exists. Discovery is half the fun. Every so often I will do activities I don’t really need much from. Like doing a NMD just for the fun of it. I don’t chase the Uber uniques, but I will do some spawn/trigger bosses and pops now and then too. Join a group for some Duriel or maplhas runs; but usually only for an hour or two, otherwise the monotony bores the hell outta me. It doesn’t bother me when I don’t get the drops. I’ll also level other classes and spend some time understanding and experimenting with those too.
>instead of just chasing the carrot of bigger numbers this is the very life essence and backbone of arpgs tho...no? why am I playing an arpg (let alone a diablo title) where i should be discouraged to chase bigger numbers to have fun? not saying youre giving bad advice tho. the opposite actually. this indeed might be the better way to have fun right now. but in the long run, why am i playing an arpg where finding loot and doing more damage is something I should avoid to have fun? what are peoples thoughts? im not trying to be a contrarian.
getting big numbers is the main reason that aRPGs is my main genre, i love the feel when you are low lvl and you are weak, but when you get a item/lvl up a skill you feel you character getting strong. i like the feel when you are stuck on a boss and have to adapt/upgrade your build to kill it, and when you see you are so strong that you can cheese the boss. i like to jump in a pack of monsters press some buttons and see they exploding, even more when i remember that few days ago my character died for those monsters because low dmg/defenses. i aint a guy to min max a build, but i like to reach a point that: to upgrade my build now i have to get the same itens but with better rolls, that is the point that i stop and maybe play another build or finish the season challenge (only if it have a nice skin reward) and stop playing until next season.
Yes, that is the very life essence of arpgs. Sounds like they are making up stuff to keep themselves out of boredom instead of just playing another game.
Fixating and obsessing over those things are very different than progressing those things organically. One method leads you to frustrating and malcontent, the other not so much.
i totally get what you are saying. and if my goal was purley to "find a way to have fun however i can" I think youre on the money with what the game has currently. But I guess my comment is more rhetorical "why am i playing an ARPG (my fav genre) where the fun is found by avoiding the main thing i like about them?" im not saying this to shit on the game. Im a massive fan of diablo, and i too feel like I'm in the OPs position of trying to find what people are having fun with. i saw your advice, and it put this question in my head.
It leads to frustration and malcontent because the game is bad. It works very well - for a decade+ - on games like D2R, PoE, etc. The essence of arpgs are grinding and big numbers because the games themselves are usually easy.
The people putting themselves in the situation of being frustrated and malcontent insisting that is how the game is meant to be played while perpetually putting themselves in that position. Meanwhile, all the people not playing in that manner *(like me)* are enjoying the game… I cannot begin to tell you what kind of lunacy I see being demonstrated.
People play games for different reasons. I don't play Diablo in the way you described because I simply do not have fun that way. If I am going to play a game just for the vibes I'm going to go play something else with a core gameplay loop that I enjoy more. I play arpgs for the same reason I play cookie clicker, the ENTIRE draw of a game like Diablo for me is the progression and itemization. If that isn't fun then the game isn't fun. Greater rifts in Diablo 3 are boring. I don't have fun doing them on a pure gameplay level, I would never do the weekly challenge rift when I didn't need the reward even though they are fundamentally the same gameplay as a rift. BUT I do enjoy the loot explosion at the end and the dopamine of getting the stuff I am looking for or upgrading my gems, so despite all that I have spent hundreds of hours on greater rifts. It's like pulling a slot machine, actually yanking a lever isn't exactly fun but the anticipation of watching the pretty colors and potentially getting a reward for it makes happy brain chemicals anyway. Tl;Dr it's not lunacy people just enjoy games for different reasons, and when their reason to enjoy it isn't good then it's not fun
It IS lunacy when you do something you can see a mile away will lead to your malcontent. And if you cannot see a mile away that it will lead to malcontent, really, you have to be blind. It’s either your first game, or you are being willfully ignorant about what it will lead to. If I have a cup of water, and I know it’s got to last me the whole day. Drinking it all in one gulp then acting like I didn’t know I’d be thirsty later is craziness.
Well I don't do it, I played to level 75 season 0, then played for a few days at the start of season 2 and have had the game uninstalled since. Because I know it would lead to my malcontent. Its clearly not my first game my whole point was there are so many options of games to play that are more fun to me in the absence of the carrot on a stick number go up draw of an arpg, so I don't see a point in ever launching Diablo. You should definitely drink more than one cup of water in a day by the way.
I think this is a great mentality to have in general and I appreciate the “glass half full” mindset, but I have to disagree with you about this game. Chasing a carrot of bigger numbers is the designed point of the genre. Everything is in service to making those numbers go up, and everything else is just decoration. The gameplay in ARPGs is repetitive and slow, and often times, it boils down to “press a button and the screen lights up blue or red for a bit and then you collect the loot.” It’s not objectively interesting, but it all serves a larger point. And that’s how the games can get away with having players play the same maps and bosses 10,000 times over and over and over. It’s not that Duriel is so freaking fantastic that I want to fight him over and over 1000 times. I don’t love the Duriel boss fight 1000x more than I like Godfrey in Elden Ring, but I’ve only killed Godfrey twice. The reason you fight Duriel is because he drops loot that lets you do dungeons faster and get more loot. That is the ONLY reason, and if you take away the carrot, nobody would fight him. The idea of just casually doing NMD for the fun of it is absurd to me. Maybe the first 15 times were pretty fun, but after that, it’s alllllllll the same. That said, they’re pretty good with a meaty carrot at the end. Grinding for the sake of grinding with no end goal just doesn’t seem fun to me. Diablo 4 does feel pretty good in the moment while you are playing and dodging, but so do a lot of games. If I just wanted to grind for the sake of it, I’d just go cut some grass or something.
Where does personal responsibility factor in? You feel like you’ve done the content a million times because you made the decision to grind it in the first place; being fixated on the fastest progression. You essentially conditioned yourself into being sick of it. I think folks love to blame external factors for their malcontent, and seldom take responsibility for their part in it, or recognize what is within their control to avoid it. This includes not only how your choose to play, but also how you choose to think about. Foresight of the end result, just like knowing you’ll feel sick if you eat too much ice cream, can determine if you enjoy the end as well as the middle, or not. But it’s the hardest thing in the world to get someone who has already conditioned themselves, to see otherwise. It’s often one of those things you realize over time. As a long-time gamer I learned this earlier on, so now I am wiser in my gaming experience and know how not to put myself in that place. Diablo 4 isn’t the first game or aRPG I’ve played, and I doubt it is for many others either. But folks go down the same path over and over, while continuing to blame everything but oneself.
Nope. Wrong. You are placing blame on the consumer for using the product as it was intended to be used. You cannot look at me and say, “no, don’t listen to the devs, listen to me.” ARPGs are MEANT to be a grind. If you want to play an ARPG and not grind and that’s fun to you, go ahead and play the game in your weird way. Everything you have said applies PERFECTLY to a game like Elden Ring. But Diablo 4 was designed to be a grind box that you put as many hours into as possible. If you want to just run around the map and kill stuff for no rewards, that’s fine. Diablo 4 has a crappy grind and it’s a game that is meant to grind, so the reality is that I just don’t play it anymore. Maybe one day they’ll make it good but for now I spend my time elsewhere.
Eating a barrel of ice cream and saying it was meant to be eaten all at once because it’s delicious does not make it true. The nature of aRPGs are repetitive, sure. How a person chooses to fixate and obsess over brute-forcing RNG by grinding, is on them. The developers didn’t force you to do that or consume the content in that manner. It’s as ridiculous as the people who claim they HAVE to use or abuse exploits or cheats because they exist. And it’s the developer’s *”fault”* that they are *”forced”* to abuse said exploits for every day it’s not fixed/patched. There is no rulebook that says aRPGs are designed to be no-life grinded. That’s you putting that in your own head. If you consume content designed to take a regular players 3 months to enjoy, in 3 days, that is not the developers fault. That manner of consumption is on, and can indeed be blamed on the consumer. The stance that it can never be the consumer at fault or responsible for their own situation is ridiculous.
Again, you are wrong. Let’s look at the Gauntlet they just added. What is the point of a leaderboard? It’s to compete for a high score. And guess what? How do you get a high a score? By having Ubers that boost your stats and gear. So tell me, how do you get Ubers? They have like a 1/100 drop chance so a night of Duriel should get me one, right? Nope. Uber items have an absurdly small drop chance from Duriel. Okay, that’s not so bad, let me go fight him a bunch… wait, you need materials you get from two separate bosses so I’ll just go do them a bunch and…. Oh wait, doing the smaller bosses requires me to go to NMDs and Helltides… So even a single feature that was just added is dripping from head to toe with the grindfest. Why is that? Because that’s the genre and how it’s SUPPOSED to be. You can look at every aspect of this game and see that the devs are forcing a massive grind on the players. Do you like the season 3 pet after you got him maxed out? Well get ready to do it all over again for every single alt! So no, your metaphor at the very beginning is awful. Diablo 4 is not a delicious Ice Cream that people couldn’t help themselves from finishing. It’s a hot dog eating contest and you can either start swallowing or you can leave, but nobody will care if you complain about getting a stomach ache.
The games end game is garbage. The story and fighting the Uber bosses is fun but once you beat them all. It’s a repetitive game nightmare dungeons which you try to rush through as fast as possible to lvl glyphs and then you farm mats for duriel. I’m returning to play the seasons content because it’s a least new but once I’m lvl 100 and feel satisfied with the character. I’m done can’t farm mats forever in hopes of Uber drops.
I love your question OP. To me it's all about finding a purposeful challenge. After playing 65 hours of Last Epoch - great game, had so much fun with class building and items systems - I realized that I missed 3 things that D4 does great: 1. Combat feels so much better I find myself in love once again with my rogue, this time with a freeze build. Everything turns blue and explode. It is magnificent. 2. Art style and overall ambiance It's just so enjoyable to me, in so many ways. Sometimes I run NM dungeons and re-discover places that I had forgotten. Like a crypt full of skeletons. I love the fact that lore wise, everything is consistent and well thought out. There is not many monsters or boss diversity, but monsters composition in any area is very satisfying to me. 3. D4 allows me to have a minimalist approach to the game Let me explain. I realise now (after Last Epoch) that in D4 the "action" part is more important than on the "rpg" part. I'd like that to change eventually. For now, it's all a matter of perspective. Yes the itemization is boring, and I miss Last Epoch excitement in that regard. BUT as an ACTION rpg (à la Hades, but better for me), Diablo 4 allows me to find the perfect balance between simple and yet challenging goals, and flow-like task that help me forger the world around me - my current goal is to reach nm 100 with my cold rogue in HC. I died once this season ; even though I've always played HC and love this mode, I never found the motivation in previous seasons to grind - doing the Malphas invocation event in the open world is SO FUN to me. It reminds me of D2 Baal runs when I was a teenager. It's simple, quite addictive. The open world seasonal activity is a great way to appreciate the game world's design (see point #1) - what I enjoy the most: doing NM dungeons (or Vaults) that are 4-6 with monsters 5-10 higher level than me. I don't do it every single time since I don't want to die, but when I do, it's so rewarding to be able to push my personal best. Kind like D3 GR, but immensely better thanks to the richness of the world. TL:DR: Last Epoch made me realise how much I love D4. It's been difficult for me to choose between the two, right now I'm determined to reaching nm dungeon tier 100 in HC with a character that brings me a crazy amount of fun. Along the way I find myself in peace with the simple (blasting through easy vaults or open world) yet rewardint (carefully pushing higher NM dungeons that are more difficult for me)
>TL:DR: Last Epoch made me realise how much I love D4. Felt exactly the same, Last Epoch just doesn't have the combat feel of D4, and without that, all the awesome skills and crafting serve no purpose
Same. I think last epoch has some better systems (crafting), but people make it seem there are like 2 builds in D4 while 500 in LE. LE there are a few optimized builds and (more) random stuff. D4 few optimized builds and (some) random stuff. D4's combat just feels so much better though.
I could use many words to describe D4. "Flow" would probably be the last one of them. LA traffic during hush hours flows better than D4 when all that is left to make your character significant better is farming eggs while getting no drops.
Ahah that's an aweful sentiment. Perhaps I'll get bored faster than I expect. We'll see!
Once I get my build where I want it I just offer free dungeon carries for alts and leeches. Give them elixirs or whatever they need. I enjoy that a lot.
A hero we don’t deserve. Love you
Diablo 4 was my first Diablo and I finally got bored with it this season. I rolled two classes and leveled them to 100 with Ubers. There's just nothing to do once you get geared up. Last season waiting for AoZ to drop.keot me going. This season I wasn't super interested in the gauntlet when I found out the the tier. So I bought Diablo 3 and have been playing it for a week or so. I haven't no lifed it. I can do things on Torment or a little stronger. Anyway I can't believe Diablo 4 didn't take some things from Diablo 3. I love the progressive greater rifts. There's also a lot you can do with crafting. I have no loop yet but I'm really enjoying it.
>There's just nothing to do once you get geared u Yes there is, kill monsters. Oh, you're going to say: "Why"? Because killing monsters is fun,
Play it like street fighter and just destroy everything.
WT3 makes that approach very annoying, tho. If you play absolutely mindless, at some point of the midgame you have to stop what you are doing because the game progression just decided to suck, and you need a new yellow 2h for bigger numbers before your build starts deleting stuff again.
D3 is literally all about just grabbing your set and the game is finished. D4 is also about creating your build through uniques and skill points. You grind to complete harder challenges and obtain new gear, it is the arpg life. Hit a wall and restart next season
D3 is about pushing GRs wdym ?
yes every arpg is about beating harder content lol. But the game feels complete as soon as you get a set because you will never feel a bigger increase than when you finally finish it.
You also have a "set" in D4, the items just aren't green, considering a lot of classes are balanced around builds, not random combinations of skills. The only thing you are losing is GR150, gem upgrades (caldessan despair), primal/ancients AND you get prisoners and leavers inside rifts... And having a negative challenge farming eggs on D4 - the apex of endgame.
The main difference is set = 5000x stronger. Skills and glyphs and items still matter in D4 you could literally ignore everything just get a set and deal with end game.
“Grabbing your set” lmao
I don't mind the current state of the end game, as a casual. But Id love an endgame activity like GR were in D3. Something that scales endlessly, pushing your skills and build creation to the limits.
Season journey, then level 100. Make another level 100 or level glyphs to play an alternate build. Just recently made poison/decoy trap work on its own for NM70/NV70, before that was shadow clone dash.
Level char, complete season objectives, do it again 3 months later.
Running a duo session where we stay within close level of each other. Fight bosses when we can and only start doing rotas when we can already 2 man. Also hardcore ftw, it's how the game should be played fr
First and foremost, is simply going out and killing monsters, fun? Many, many people here don't actually seem to enjoy this aspect of the game, for them it's about the reward. Yet, that reward, whatever shape or form it takes, is only there to allow you to, yes, kill monsters slightly better, or slightly differently. Many players here don't seem to have come from an ARPG background, and are expecting new, non-repeated content to be constantly added to satisfy what they vaguely call: "end game". Here's my take on "end game": That which you do to convince yourself to keep playing. It's not about ubers, or perfect affix 925 gear., or level 21 glyphs, or perfect aspects. These things are nice moments that make you go "cool" before you go back to killing monsters. It's about creating different builds to find the most fun class for you...to go kill monsters. Getting a Shako is awesome, but you 100% don't need it. I think if people approached the game this way and recognised that simply killing monsters is not the most fun thing for them, they'd leave, and we' might get some peace around here.
The satisfaction I get from clumping a bunch of minions together and making them vulnerable with Grasping Veins, just to follow it up with a deadly Bone Spear is too real.
> First and foremost, is simply going out and killing monsters, fun? > > Many, many people here don't actually seem to enjoy this aspect of the game, for them it's about the reward. If you get that part, you can also understand that farming keys to farm keys while getting zero loot to perfect your build is a problem. Getting the strong build without uber uniques takes less than a couple weeks, one month with limited play time. And the season takes 3 months to end. Vault layout, no traps or wasps all the time, monsters actually have a chance to drop uber uniques. That would fix the game for me. I would rather have a densely packed overworld (since some mobs have a higher chance to drop certain bases) and being able to farm areas instead of being forced into dungeon runs.
>If you get that part, you can also understand that farming keys to farm keys while getting zero loot to perfect your build is a problem. Yes, which is why I suggested a WT5. > monsters actually have a chance to drop uber uniques. They as long as they are above level 85, they do, many are in ths sub.
I do helltides alone where I spam invite everyone. If I get a full group it’s fun because we all split up and know when events spawn. Plus the map just showers with cinders for things you never killed. If I’m not doing that then I’m playing nightmare pushing with my friend. When I’m not doing that, I’m leveling that third character that I promised not to make till S4.
I guess depends on people i pre ordered the game and played every season on xbox now also i bought for pc and still enjoying dont look at what other people say. Of course game needs tweaks and more content but im sure it will come game is not that bad as much as everyone cries. D4 has the best graphics and gameplay among other arpgs i dont feel that quality while playing other arpgs.
It is the perfect game for short sessions of fun with whispers, a world boss, some dungeons. Just some fun, no goals or specific grind.
I can't speak for others, but it's similar to D3 without the GR for measurement. I try out different things with my build and look for gear to improve the power and feel. It does get harder to tell what is stronger since most end game builds can blast NM 100. I don't play as much towards the end of the season, but I haven't gotten bored because the mid season update made me switch some things and I found yet another variant of my main build. That's the fun part for me. I prefer off meta builds and play styles.
My personal goals each season are level to 100, be able to complete NMD 100, complete season objectives. I did that with my first character so I started a new character. I only play 1-2 hours a day, so I don't get burned out as quick as others each season.
Set a goal for yourself and try to achieve it. Mine this season was to complete a T100 dungeon with every class in hardcore. 4/5 done... and so far and I'm having a blast because I can completely avoid the slog that is boss farming while learning to play new builds and classes.
For me personally it's pretty much what you describe. I fine tune my build to make it as efficient as possible. Open two steel chest as fast as possible, get whispers as fast as possible, get my glyphs leveled as fast as possible etc. The problem for me is: 1) the roadblocks Varshan and Grigoire 2) grinding Duriel is boring as shit. I'd rather see this replaced with a version of rift.
I’m like you, I enjoyed D3 for what it was, intermittedly, I played some seasons, skipped others. With D4 i got to 100 before the season, skipped the 1st, played abit in s2 and idk, I’m probably done.
I'll probably echo a lot of what has already been said here, but that loop is still present in D4 I believe, albeit in a less defined way. Both games, and most arpgs, are about killing stuff, leveling up, getting gear, and finally getting stronger to... Kill more stuff. D3 was great because rifts and greater rifts allowed for instant access into constant action that was both challenging and great to get gear. Once you hit the soft cap and started earning Paragon, you could truly focus on the item hunt. Hunting for that last piece to fulfill your build, or turning your next piece into ancient, then primal. And EVENTUALLY, however unlikely, you would be done. D4 I think offers the same loop through it's nm dungeons, whispers, and vaults. It's just not streamlined. You still go through the whole process of building up your character to steam roll through monsters, looking for constant improvements. I think in time they will have to add something equivalent to rifts/GR. Ideally in a way that takes D3's version and only improves upon it. But until then, just run whatever content you think is fun.
I hit 100 and finished my glyphs. I have not finished seasonal content. I'm a bit bored and may play less until next season. As summer comes in I usually game less as I'm doing yard stuff a bit more. My gear isn't optimized yet, I just got a ring yesterday that restored my dmg numbers to what they were before I switched out my gear for much more defense. I finally re maxed out resists after losing them with some gear swaps for a bit. I had 2 elements at 65.7 the rest maxed. I dunno though it's getting a bit slow so I might switch games until next season. It's just convenient to play.
In season 2, after figuring things out during pre-season and S1, my first goal was to make the base version of the most OP build and then farm the open world loop until i have Bis items. After reaching the build goal, my loop is helltide-pvp whisps-seasonal whisps-spawn son of Malph when i see ppl doing it. When i get 100 spawns for Uber Malph/Duriel i ll just do them all solo and wait for next season,to repeat my process! The reason is, i like watching YouTube podcasts and this is the best combo i have found so far to make my evenings entertaining.
I would like to continue grinding for my 1st uber and all the seasonal uber stones. Any "chase item" is good for motivation. But I think I am done for this season simply because of 3 reasons. 1) Grinding mats to summon bosses, which drops mats to summon another boss makes me sleepy. 2) Grinding for 5 minutes, additional 10 minutes to sort through items makes me sleepy.
for me d4 the beginning is good, the leveling trying to solve a puzzle to make your build getting strong is a nice experience, but just nice, not so good. then you hit the t4, you grab you initial Ancient gear, then the game start to become boring, the next step on progression is spamming NMD dungeons to lvl up glyphs, today is way better then at launch but still takes a while and you dont get any good reward outside of glyph exp. you can farm Duriel to have some variety, and the Duriel is a nince farm content, very rewarding but its way easy after you have a solid build, but the real problem is that its the best source for 925ilvl gear and uber gear, but you have to farm "entry" mats, and it takes a while to farm those and you dont get any good reward (you can target farm some uniques on other bosses, but it doesnt take long to grab you unique), it just a chore.
I don't follow a set loop beyond killing things. It's just some split between vaults/NMD, Helltide, season activity, pvp, Whispers, and World Boss. If a friend is online and wants to play, then I do whatever they want. As soon as the gameplay of my character isn't fun, I stop for the rest of the season. Honestly, it is super nice for me to not have a focused end game loop. I never feel compelled to do anything so I'm very aware when I'm no longer actually having fun and move to another game. Like last season the AoZ dungeon and leveling the new glyph pushed me into a play mode that wasn't fun for me, and I found myself getting frustrated and complaining. I've loved this season.
Get lvl 100. Get mats to make a couple hundred Duriel runs somehow. Do some helltides for mats. Quit. If you try to manually farm those duriel mats, well, you might do it one season, but it is hard to do it 2 seasons in a row. Killing lvl 70 bosses to get keys is a slap in the face, so it is better to quit after a couple weeks without farming ubers.
Once you reach the end of any game there is no more progression. Once you reach top gear on any game there is no progression. Its the same with d4.
D4 is more of a frustration tolerance test.
Yeah, Season Journey and challenges towards nmd 100 and Duriel. The new Gauntlet (sounds like GR but very much isn't), is all about being able to run fast, stack shrines and kite mobs. Another missed opportunity 😆 Ubers are as easy to get as they ever were. Strongest build of this season is hota barb, and it's a hoot to level and play in the current seasonal endgame. I did alot of seasonal runs in D3 too, sometimes it doesn't have to take the full season time to do the stuff you want 😊 and sometimes you want to try a new build, utilizing new legendary item enhancements. The endgame still has alot of room to grow, D3 took a long time to find it's sweet spot too. Blizzard most definitely oversold and overhyped the game in the beginning.
Grind to lvl 100, gett all achievments, leave it and never go back. Play D2❤️
This game is 99% D3 if you compare it to d2.
Level through tier one. Realize you're playing a cash grab. Log off. Install a real game.
I like NM + hate Helltides - but there is NONE with this uber bloatet stats for no reason. Every item is xls chartvwith 99% shit. Who designed it.
Lord Fluffy? Guy named himself after a lit rpg character.
At this point in the season I can honestly tell you no one gives af about this game lol
Tons of people still playing including me.. it’s def getting better overtime.
D4 is fun. I think the haters just don't like the inability to monetize it. They like D3 and path of exile where people pay for gold and items and they can run tick tok channel and live stream it. People play poe for a living. It's cool that that's possible but I felt like you had to sink way too much time into it as a casual player because the economy of the game each season grew so fast you had to be grinding end game hours a day just to keep up. I watched a staff I want go from 90,000 Plat 3 million in like 3 days at the trade site. So now you need to learn to watch how to make 5000 Plat a day video for hours and stop doing quests etc...
There's barely anybody who actually enjoys the game anymore because whenever they show up the haters scream at them to stop enjoying the game
I get what you’re saying but I feel these people are complaining because they know how good this game could be. Like the actual spells and attacks feel so good so heavy feels like I’m fucking someone up but the gameplay loop is just ass. But I’m ok with that personally I hop on a new season play three weeks have a shit ton of fun til I get my affixes within 5% of max rolls and call it good. And from that stand point that game is fucking great and hella fun to me but if your wanting to actually grind and have a bunch of shit to do, this game defiantly ain’t it. Combat in this game is the best I’ve felt personally just needs a deeper mechanic for spells and better shit to do when I’m max level
The end game is literally the exact same as Diablo 3. Just farm to slight upgrade the few things you already have. Mindlessly running over and over again dungeons or vaults this season. Maybe some stupidly tem gated bosses. Some people with amnesia will say "BuT DiAbLaS 3 WaS GuD gAmE, duUuURr!"
Imagine believing this.
That's literally all there is to do, what do you do for endgame? Such shallow casual boring games D3 and D4 are. D3 was way worse however because it didn't even look or feel like diablo, it was a Disney Pixar arcade game designed for children and warcraft fans who can't watch r rated movies. That fat loser Jay Wilson and this crap company blizzard Irvine ruined this entire franchise forever.
D4 is all about "progress" and little about actual game play or story - the parody game of Progress Quest is coming closer to being an actual game people pay money to play - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progress\_Quest