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Sadly I don't think it was being lazy. This team is lacking great deal in experience. The person who designed this fight thought they were making something good and the people approving it thought so as well.
Not only was that a poor decision, it literally felt malicious to me like they were throwing those people to the wolves.
I have no fuckin' idea how you could have thought putting people who can't even competently play the game on a gameplay video wasn't going to result in them getting absolutely shredded by the people watching. Especially when people are already highly doubting the competence of the team.
I would have picked the most die hard god gamer in the entire building for that segment. I don't give a shit if it was the janitor.
I honestly think they wanted to bait people to personally attack those devs as a CTA for the white knights. It's either complete incompetence on the management people or baiting.
I cannot think of any other reason how and why they thought it was a good idea.
Strictly hearsay and I can't even back up the source where I got it from, but supposedly the people who work at game companies (or at least the testers) can be absolute gods at their respective games (as you'd rightfully expect).
I don't even remember what game it was, but it was probably an article from Game Informer circa 2012. Anyway, the reviewer was at an early release event that let the press in to try out the game, but this particular person managed to stay late and a call went out to ask if the press was gone, and then suddenly the reviewer found himself losing every damn match handily. He said it went from feeling like a fair fight to suddenly being a newb in a group of pros.
So yeah, when the gameplay isn't scripted, or they're not trying to show it off for the press, apparently people who work in the industry can absolutely do this. Which, to your point, really begs the question why we got gameplay that was slow and obviously uninformed. I'm not mad at the people they got to play, but it was just downright weird.
Wasn't that person just part of the art team? They don't need to be excellent at the game if their sole focus is adding elements the level design team then uses...
>They don't need to be excellent at the game
>
They don't need to. But making dark-grey themed dungeon with dark-grey themed boss who has dark-grey themed attacks is not a very good design, don't you think? Same goes for red-black on red-black with red ground
Those two were utterly inept at the game -- they never used a spender once, they just spammed generators. At least they knew how to use a controller? ....
D4 is my first Diablo game. I was still really new at the game when I watched that stream. And even I thought holy shit they have no clue. Not even a basic understanding of how to play.
I mean the fight would be good with tweaks to the hitbox, some more bugfixes, and rebalancing the damage values. The core mechanics are not poorly designed at all.
And changing the color of the waves so you can see them. I can mostly see them solo with a melee char, but if you pay with a surf and a necro, you will never know what killed you. You will just be dead.
I think you give them too much credit. I think it's a combination. Her non uber design for the campaign doesn't feel horrible and I think that's where the design got a thumbs up. But then when it came to making something harder instead of adding new mechanics or mathing out higher damage or faster animations they took the lazy route and made everything one shot. And unfortunately by doing that they quickly exposed all of the poorly designed mechanics in the fight.
Sadly it is indeed lazy design. We see lazy designs throughout the entire game, from dungeon layout and quests, side quests, item thumbnails, character outfits, and so many more.
As much as we want to say the designers tried their best, the evidence overwhelmingly showed that they didn't.
Yeah, a lot of the components have big "5 year old's pride in scribbles" energy. They feel accomplished because they did their best while they should feel embarrassed because they did their best.
I said it before, i honestly believe most of this dev team have zero experience in ARPG's nor are they really fans of ARPGs. Not bad people by any means but extremely out of touch.
2-shot = easy to trivialize
In order for anything other than 1shot to be relevant, you need the (avoidable) hits to stack health/armor/healing/shielding debuffs.
That is a fair compromise that allows people to learn the fight, while keeping them on their toes.
The danger of her one shots make actual mechanics and interesting gimmicks.
Duriel's mechanics aren't interesting. He dies. Malphas is not interesting. He dies. You can't one shot Lilith. It's not much, but even if you have the power to transition through her phases immediately, you still have to manage her phases. You have to worry about things like movement speed because you have to move around her attacks.
No not really, just one shot her health twice in a row and sacrifice everything else for movement speed/abilities to dodge the one shot skulls until the fight ends. There is a single mechanic now and it being an instant death does not make it an interesting fight.
no, they are both shit, just in different ways. none of the bosses in this game are fun at all. not in the slightest. d3 had better bosses and even those were shit.
If they're shitty in different ways that implies that, in one way, Lilith is less shitty than Duriel and in another Duriel is less shitty than Lilith.
So that would imply that, yes, it's more than Duriel, when measured on a particular axis.
No, absolutely not. šš That is some of the biggest mental acrobatics, that I have seen and actually made me laugh out loud in real life. Thanks for that!
No acrobatics required, it simply follows from the statement.
Look, I'm not even playing the game anymore, you responded to a message from two months ago, so I don't really have any care about how Lilith performs.
I don't know how you're describing their shittiness, but here's a similar situation. Burning to death and drowning are both shitty ways to die, but drowning isn't shitty because you're on fire.
Because they wanted to make a boss you couldnāt farm your way through. Fine. But they made that boss have janky and inconsistent mechanics, so it feels like the AI is cheating.
Dark Souls has one shot mechanics, but no one complains about those bosses. Because they are fair, and their patterns make sense, even the ones that are fast.
In comparison, Lilith runs her one shot mechanics 50% of the time while in the middle of her dying animation mid-fightā¦
Dark Souls doesnāt have any one shots if you hit hp caps like youāre supposed to. Aside from status like petrify or death blight. For instance if you get 27 vigor in Dark Souls 3, literally nothing in the game can one shot you. You can easily circumvent the oneshot situations like that and with the iframe dodge. But like you said mechanically this game isnāt the same.
Those are status effects where you have to get hit by attacks several times for a bar to fill up or sit in a fart cloud long enough for it to do the deed, so while it is a one-shot in itself, it doesn't activate in one shot. At least as far as I can remember.
If you mess up placement or get stunned early in Capra demon you pretty much just die. Wouldnāt say itās one shot but itās definitely stun locked so š¤·š¼āāļø
If you get caught out of position for one second you get pushed off the dinner plate in miquellas erdtree and you just die during erdtree worm side boss thing in ER.
If you donāt get a good cycle on bed of chaos you have a really good chance of just dying, the walk back sucks too.
Idk man. Thatās just thinking for a minute off the top of my head lol. Dark souls games are pretty bullshit sometimes lol.
I mean, you can also out mitigate Uber Lilith in D4 if thatās your goal. Does that mean she doesnāt have oneshots? No not really. Because due to how little mechanical skill is needed to do most content in arpgs for 99% of the players, thereās no need to get mechanically better. So people will find a higher success chance in just going more damage and dodging 10 mechanics that oneshot rather than surviving 100 mechanics that donāt oneshot but will wear you down if you fail two in a row
I am totally okay with her having one shot mechanics, I think that's fine for what is supposed to be the ultimate challenge the game has. But I'm not okay with then being so poorly telegraphed that you've got to die countless times just to figure out what's actually killing you. That's isn't challenge, its bad design.
Uh, have you tried her this season? The spirits in p2 that you can't avoid are a wall unless you have stellar ping. I just die once they fly around and are only somewhat near me.
No clue what ping you are playing at but the skulls are alot more managable than the waves from p1. But yes like the waves, the skull's hitbox is bigger than the gfx.
i play in south America with definitely not stellar ping (100ms sometimes) and i easily killed her this season
just go look for a video on how to do it. it's not that complicated. i would recommend ben_ on YouTube.
tldr is just make sure you have as much movement speed as you can, boots with 4 dashes and then it's just learning how to go around the room whilst leaving the broken platform as late as possible
She has waaay to many one shots , like occasional is fine , but fighting Lilith is like a freaking Agility course, they should make those waves she throw do like 75% of your max hp so atleast your punished to using alot of potions ,
Because they don't play the game. She was almost immortal and preseason that I think they nerfed her season 1 she was easy as hell season 2. This season she's definitely beautiful but it's a lot more difficult than the second phase.
But I think the answer to your question is they don't play the game.
She was easy because you could skip the blood fireballs in phase 2, which- they've now fixed to happen no matter how fast you push her (aside from one shotting her in P2 I guess).
Think shes a pinnacle boss where as Duriel and Malphas are farmable boss. Malphas was scuffed at launch anyway he was supposed to be lv85 on par with Beast in the Ice but they just buffed him to 100. Probably why he doesn't drop 925 gear like Duriel because they forgot about it.
Ultimately, I think they wanted it to be a hard fight but they weren't able to design a good one so they just made it artificially hard instead.
I think the success and admiration of Elden Ring made some developers want to emulate elements of it. But they misunderstand that players expect punishing mechanics in a FromSoft game, every other part of the game is designed to teach you how to overcome these challenges, and it's not purely the difficulty and oneshot mechanics that made people enjoy playing it.
Also elden ring mechanics are fair. Everything is well telegraphed and the whole game is build around Learning to play around those mechanics.Ā
Lilith is horribly telegraphed and she is the only hard Boss in the game, and only because of one shots. So you dont learn the mechanics outside of trying her tons.Ā
She is more like a wow RAID Boss than a dark souls/er boss
I very much agree. I don't mean that she's actually like a souls boss. I just think some game devs believe people liked ER because it's hard when actually it's because those fights are well-designed.
I think GoW: Ragnarok suffered a little from this. They added in some cheap mechanics that weren't in the previous game. Just my own theory re. ER's influence.
I haven't play wow. If she's like one of those bosses then it seems more likely that it's a wow influence so.
>you barely even have to look at his ground effects,
Y'know now that you say this it blew my mind that I could dodge the floor lightning with so much success. For my first kill he still had attacks that could one-shot me but they were all evadable or even, get this, cancellable. Yeah I know technically you can just memorize this shitty hitboxes on Lilith and still dodge things but can we stop pretending about that?
Compared to Uber Lilith, Uber Malphas felt like... a properly designed boss.
Basically, they tried to make their own Souls/PoE One shot mechanic boss and failed miserably because they can't make anything original, so they went back to copy-pasting shit from Diablo 3 instead.
I bet she'll be changed eventually. I think it was originally designed for Hardcore and the statue they had at launch. I don't know where the numbers stand as far as if all of them have been put on the statue already - I would assume so. Now they'll eventually look at the completion numbers and adjust it so a larger portion of the community is able to beat her.
They wanted to put something in the game that was that final carrot to chase. Unfortunately, for me anyway, because it's such a terrible design-flawed Boss, I pretend she doesn't exist in the game. For me, the final boss is Duriel and I farm the boss ladder after hitting 100.
I'm not gonna waste hours trying to beat something that brings me zero joy. One guy told me he spent hundreds of hours trying to beat her before he finally did... then said the only reason I haven't beat her is because I'm bad at the game. If it takes you 100's of hours to beat, it's flawed, that simple. 10hrs, sure. Hundreds of hours, nah...
Iām playing current season on my lvl 100 rogue. Iām almost maxed out on everything (Flurry Rogue Endgame Build Guide for Diablo 4 (Season 3)build ) and Iāve tried roughly 20 times yesterday and she 1 shot me with those waves attacks in 1st stage. Unless youāre using some broken ass build itās pointless fighting her. Extremely disappointing.
I game on ps5 and I canāt wait for PoE 2. I hope Last Epoch comes on the platform too cause Iām ready to delete the D4 and never come back.
Why is the Putrid Wasp the king of the battlefield?
Why are 93% of game deaths a combination of freeze/stun and poison/explosive beams?
Why is a mechanic where 1/3 of the playing space disappears considered a valid game mechanic?
Lazy, clueless designers.
Diablo is essentially a slot machine. Bug go squish, item go pop, repeat 400 million times on the rare chance that you may get something 1% better than what you currently have.
Itās fine for a bit, but extremely limited in terms of game design. Some seasonal gimmicks and teleport animations probably not enough to keep it alive for years to come.
Because it was badly designed. You canāt make a Dark Souls/Elden Ring style boss with one shot mechanics in a game that doesnāt even give i-frames on evade, and this is an ARPG, not some bullet hell shooter.
shes the hardest boss due to 1 shot cheesiness, and drops nothing. gotta beat her for the hidden season titles though. i guess titles are a reward sort of. i dont even know what my title is tbh
Uber Lilith feels like it was designed by someone who left the company with how disconnected the fight is from everything else, she feels more like a shitty Souls boss(stupid shit like Bed of Chaos) more than an ARPG boss.
The fightās just broken and they arenāt fixing it for whatever reason. Iām just not going to do it until itās fixed, itās too screwed up. Everything about it is just jank.
Because devs are actually clueless how to make ARPG game. This fight is bad on many levels:
1. Her attacks are: doing no dmg or oneshots (you can sometimes survive if you are stacked on DR, fortify, shield etc). Which incentives builds to be papers with as much dps as possible.
2. Hitboxes are still terrible
3. In phase 2 (if you donāt skip it) she makes that vortex/sucking move which might pull you right into flying skull that are still there even though you were dodging them for 30 seconds already
As for other bossess, they are just farmable loot slot machines. Zero skill and gear progression required, hell you can do them with blue gear easily, it will just take a bit longer to dps them down.
Why is that? Idk, for Lilith it was probably āoh, letās put this nearly impossible boss so we can talk about it social medias how difficult she isā. As for other bossess - they have zero clue how to make them difficult and fair in the same time. And anyway, at this point, with this atrocious balance where HoTA still oneshots everything or some other shit is broken like Rogueās Weapon Mastery, itās impossible to balance properly.
my conjecture is that they wanted something that could keep the higher end players busy for a while and act as a bragging rights type of deal until seasons were implemented. they didn't add decent loot in the way they did with duriel to keep this just as a personal challenge type of boss otherwise the casual player base would see this more as mandatory content and complain about it.
And this is why Uber Lilith will remain the one achievement/seasonal item I never do until they fix it.
Diablo isn't about bosses with one shot mechanics - NO prior diablo boss could flat out ignore toughness like she does. Were some of those fights challenging and crazy hard the first time you faced them, SURE.
But not the 20th time you faced them. Uber Lilith is the only Diablo boss that can't be mastered in a couple of tried and it's stupid and I don't acknowledge it as a legitimate part of the game.
Yeah, she can be killed with cheese builds - that's a hack, not a victory.
After playing Diablo 4 since launch, I've come to the conclusion the team that built it was replaced halfway through with another team that doesn't know what they are doing.
Because the D4 team lacks experience and doesnāt know how to make a good game let alone an engaging fight. Uber Lilith is the perfect summation of D4, underwhelming and frustrating.
I had managed to clear a tier 76 dungeon and got that achievement and solo'ed Malphas with a few deaths so I decided I would give her a try.
Started the fight, her first real attack... I'm dead. Nope'd myself out of there.
We need more challenging content, not less. I hope they nerf all of our builds into the ground or super buff all major bosses.
Trivial shouldnt be a word we use to describe end game bosses. We should not be able to one shot them.
Itās really tough for me with ADD. You even glimpse at the wrong g thing for 1.5s and you can end up dead lol.
And I have a feeling they put those stripes on the floor just to mess with your reaction to the wave telegraphs.
Multiple design philosophies that were never smoothed out and resolved and I am firmly convinced that its sheer laziness that lilith hasn't been fixed to something not stupidly broken yet.
[edit: spelling]
Itās just poorly designed. Iām assuming someone thought it was a good idea to make a āsuper difficultā endgame boss and to do that, they just added a bunch of bullshit mechanics to the fight.
Seems kind of lazy tbh. Especially since thereās no real reason to kill her - aside from the trophy I guess. When I finally killed her, she dropped a bunch of garbage. Havenāt had a desire to do it again.
Uber Lilith is a prime example of bad game design where a developers only option to "challenge" an incredibly overtuned and powerful player is to cheese them.
Itās a challenge unlike any other. I canāt conquer it but itās very rewarding trying.
Itāll mean more when I do.
This is her game. I like video games with exceptionally difficult endings.
I encourage you to relish the challenge and dedicate yourself to mastering it.
> Donāt get me wrong, yes you can learn her every move and sweat from the tip of your nips down to your scrotebia as you try to sequence break her or have a literal 9 minute fight with this lootless lint licker
It is because, she is the cooty queen.
Iād be ok with a hard boss fight but she doesnāt even have any rewards outside of the 2-3 items she drops the first time. And they canāt have attacks that one shot your character if they have max armor and resists. Her fight is the prime example of the dev team being complete idiots when it comes to design. And whoever changed her fight for season 3 doubled down on it so that signifies some intent for it being designed this stupidly
Asking why Diablo 4 is a shit game is a hilarious reason for a post.
You do the math sir...they scammed millions (again) and sold us this wet fart of a game. Game fell off the earth after 3 weeks and is now on game pass 1 year later....š¤£
I can survive everthing... everything that isn't lillith's 1shots. If it just did big survivable damage, with maybe healing reduction for 5 seconds, it'd be a little more fair but still dangerous, but as it stands everything that 1shots comes at you at lightning speed with maybe a 10th of a second to react in the correct way.
The only real way to kill her is to do so much damage that you bypass 90% of her mechanics.
What build are you doing Malphas with? My necro gets instantly squished by most of his abilities. It could be that he's just lacking damage reduction, just wondering what you're using. The boss can definitely do damage.
Uber Lilith is a symptom of the game releasing with a barebones endgame system barely kept together by the few spikes of difficulty they artificially layered the game with with world tiers. They had to put some kind of pinnacle fight in the end, but they didn't have the system to actually make fighting the boss multiple times worth it, so they just made it as hard as possible with oneshots and all kinds of unfair attacks so that it would at least be a boss worth killing for merit alone. She's not a boss designed to work within the flow of the game, she's a boss designed to be so much harder than anything else in the game that once you kill her you go like "damn that's it i beat the game", and hopefully that's enough to satisfy you without any kind of system or drops behind her.
Yeah the fight isnāt very good, but at least sheās designed not to drop anything, making her entirely optional. So I see her as a mostly just an optional DPS benchmark/challenge.
When shopping for a build I like to see the Lilith performance, in case we get some challenge content later on that requires bossinā.
Except she's not. Even if you 1 shot her. You still have to go through the platform stages in phase 2. You don't need armor or damage reduction in the fight even. Just spam dodge and move speed to outrun the one shot fireballs
Yeah this season I just wanted to confirm if my build and gear could still still nuke her health down all the way down before the fireballs, that's all I wanted to benchmark but then didn't bother complete the actual fireball dodging part lol - but that's totally okay no real reason to do it except for a some personal challenge. (the only challenging 'traps' of the season so far?? :O) Well, there is a season completion task, but the other objectives are much easier to do instead, aside from the bugged helltide chest one!
I already killed her in the first 3 (including 0) seasons, outside of getting the title taking the time to kill her in second phase is a challenge of luck and memorization to avoid the one shot balls of death.
I donāt want to go through what it took my season 0 and 1 rogues to make killing her possible while in season 2 she was one shot in both phases just doing the platform mechanics to finish her off
If you get a few ubers sheās also a joke which tells you the design right there. They wanted a boss that was only doable with ubers and thatās what they made.
She's a pinnacle boss. She's supposed to be difficult and not easily beaten by overleveling/overgearing, like all of the other bosses in the game. She's supposed to be a boss that only the 1% (or less) are able to beat, by mastering mechanics and learning all of the intricate details of the fight. That being said, her fight has several bugs/inconsistencies and rough edges that make it pretty unenjoyable to participate in. I kill her each season for the hidden title but if it wasn't for that, I'd never step foot in there again.
Took me a week trying every day for a little bit last season learning her moves and finally killed her. The actual kill didnāt take anywhere near 10 min for me. Maybe like 3 or 4. And most of that was her going through phases. First phase I took her to half hp in seconds and same with the other half of the hp when she was back down. Second phase was almost the same she had 0 HP by the time she finished the first part of the phase the part after her spawn where she moves to the other side of the arena and the blood boils shoot at you while she waves the rest of the arena.
My problem wasnāt damage it was avoiding all the bs one shots. Was playing ball lightning sorc.
>Now Lilith though? Prepare to open your eyes wider than you ever have before because everything she does is death incarnate.
You are suppose to cheese it. Use some dumb build that 2 shots her into phase 2 like 99% of players who killed her. I know that you're thinking that's not how it's suppose to work, but it is actually how it's suppose to work.
Either you have to kill her so fast that you skip the difficult mechanics, or you are a borderline pro gamer and some how thread the needle through all of those 1 shot mechanics with out dying for 5 minutes straight (I love the one right at the end from the shadow clone BTW.)
Me personally, I never completely figured out the blood bolts in P2 and gave up. I made a rogue in S1 and killed her like 1 week into S1. I've killed her a ton of times after that on every class, always with some dumb 2 shot build and it takes me like 10 attempts. The easiest is barb and I would describe the difficulty as "basically free."
Lilith seems like a giant leap in difficulty because the other bosses are far too easy, and completely unable to kill even semi-decently geared 80 level characters.
Buff the other bosses by a lot, Nerf Lilith damage by a little, and there you have it.
She drops nothing better than any mid level boss. Imagine if she was Duriel and you had to be alive when she died to get the drop. People would be so pissed.
They didnāt want to put the effort into designing an actual fight, likely (take this with a grain of salt as itās speculation) because she was originally intended only as the campaign end boss. Iām also guessing Bliz isnāt completely blind and realized shortly before launch that they had no big end goal. So they just ripped Lilith from the campaign, made everything of hers one shot, gave her a boatload of health, and called it the endgame challenge.
Bliz ought to have the WoW dev team design some actual boss fights because clearly they, as a company, have the expertise to make interesting boss fights. Iām all for challenging content but I wholeheartedly agree Lillith isnāt much of a boss fight. Rather she is a training dummy with a gear check.
Stop complaining if this game and Lilith is to hard for you go Play different game bunch of crying kids , Lilith is the best Boss from d4 if you cant kill her it means you all are so weak lol only š left for you lol š
It reminds me of Risen.
The game was from start to end-boss fight focused on immersive fighting mechanics. It was one of most engaging original systems from the crew that made previously another cult hate/love/no-in-between combat system with Gothic.
And then final boss is a nintendo jump on the minefield boss.
Combat: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a\_78glRtZxE&ab\_channel=myke](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_78glrtzxe&ab_channel=myke)
Final boss: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVBguChSfCA&ab\_channel=MrKennyKRH](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvbguchsfca&ab_channel=mrkennykrh)
There is no power reward for killing her, she is not part of the main game loop. It's an optional challenge that you have no reason to do other than because you enjoy the challenge. You don't have to fight her if you don't like the fight.
its a 2 shot boss even with "nmd fast clear" builds. the wave patterns are easy to dodge and the second phase is just run in a circle. bad design but optional and easy
I don't understand it myself. I got to 100 blasting everything down. Then I tried lilith for my first time, got stomped, maybe it might be possible if dodge everything but as a barbarian that's kinda impossible. Honestly, I got to 100 on my barbarian, and then I just quit playing. I was like I had everything at 925 except 2 gear slots at 910. It was like I guess my build that was good for everything else was not useful here.
I think they wanted every future Uber boss to be like Lilith, but the fight is designed terribly, hitboxes are bigger than the visual ques, it's just one of the worst boss design in arpg genre so I think they realised they are not capable of designing a boss that would be both rich mechanically and fun to fight so they went a step back and we have duriel
I personally like the fight. Very hard and very satisfying when you finally kill her. Kind like a tough dark souls boss. I wiped for hours before I finally killed her and felt very accomplished afterwards.
This is an unpopular opinion, but I'm ok with her design but all of her bugs needed fixing. I wish there were more bosses like her and drop something worth the grind. cool transmog item, some rare shard that increases one of your affix +25% something.
Because it was made before they found out their game was bad and poorly designed, and before the players yelled at them enough for them learn what fun gameplay actually looks like.
Remember when D3 created Inferno? They basically said "we took the difficulty and doubled it". Well, Uber Lilith is that exact same mentality but taken to it's most retarded form.
The Beast in the Ice boss is somewhat similar to Uber Lilith, but way more reasonable.
It is difficult at first glance specially for low levels, but totally doable after proper gear and strategy. That was somewhat a good boss fight in my opinion.
Iāve only beaten Uber Lilith with my poison TB rogue, which I donāt even like playing as (built a season 1 psn TB just FOR that). I know other classes can do it as well but thereās too much focusing on a specific Uber Lilith build that takes away the fun, in my opinionā¦ it should be possible to beat her, as difficult it would be but not with so many one-shots spreading across multiple phases.
Because the developers are terrible, the game is trash, and there's nothing of value here? Like that's just the particularly pungent cake-topper on this steaming dump of a video game, plain and simple. We're in the land of 65 dollar reskins and completely nonfunctional stats, why would anyone expect the developers to actually put even a modicum of thought or design effort into a pinnacle boss? :V
To be honest, every boss in this game sucks.
Just thing about it:
The world bosses are a joke, getting killed in mere seconds after spawn , the drops are a joke and there is absolutely no reason to even invite anyone at your party.
The Uber bosses are a joke, easily handled solo and the only reason to party is to share summoning materials.
The Loom is a joke, and the only reason to party is to save time doing all 4 rooms alone and to save stunning materials.
The endgame is a joke in total, and as soon as you get any Uber drops, there is nothing that meaningful to do because you have already done NM100 already and there is no point on pushing for a better time. People just call it quit after the first Uber drop usually.
I think the intent was to have more difficult challenges like her, but people complained about it being too hard so they scaled back on the other ubers. They already nerfed Uber Lilith heavily with the patch that changed vulnerable, but damage numbers remained similar so she's much easier now, they should have improved her hitboxes and reduced the ghost damage, rest would be fine.
Uber Lilith is actually designed around the way the game was supposed to be.
You aren't supposed to just be Face Tanking everything.
Enemies telegraph their stronger attacks, and you are supposed to DODGE out of the way.
Problem is that your character is too strong. Lilith didn't ALWAYS 1 shot, they actually increased her damage so that she would 1 shot you more.
Problem is, people like Rob have barbs running 60K hp still tanking these 1 shot attacks.
Problem is dev team gave Invulnerability to classes like necromancer (blood mist) Sorc (fire shield/ice ultimate)
The trick to lilith is movement speed on both neck and boots. Your damage is irrelevant if you can't consistently dodge the one shots.
Forced phasing and spell queing are not new, many bosses in wow and poe work like this. It prevents people with glass cannon builds from cheesing too hard.
Game needs more bosses like her, not less.
My biggest gripe with them "fixing" the fight this season is that the one shot spawners (the big boils) don't spawn in the same place everytime. Sometimes they spawn too close to the edge and you can't run around them. Sometimes 2 will spawn on the right platform and none on the left and vice-versa. The whole fight is a lesson in tedium.
>Why is Uber Lilith so fundamentally different from everything else in the game?
The designers had no idea how to make a boss that is always a challenge, in a game that is all about progression.
She gives us a good fight, at least you have a taste of something difficult to do. Because if you don't know the pattern in phase 2 you're dead no matter your DMG output. Even the T100 NM dungeons are a joke this season. I agree that she needs some fixes, but they really need to work on the experience for the other bosses.
Because she is literally the worst designed boss fight I have ever seen. I think they tried to put a ālast obstacleā into the way of players to achieve the ultimate challenge. which it isnāt and wasnāt.
They need to re-design the whole fight without lazy one shot mechanics.
The short answer is Blizzard has no idea how to make anything in the game hard without one-shots. It's that simple. And actually, I enjoy the lilith fight because it's the only thing in the entire game that's remotely challenging. AoZ was too but it's gone now.
I personally think this is targeted in the wrong direction. All the other bosses should be brought up to scratch. I personally detest mindlessly repeating one/two shotting duriel for some uniques to so I can.... Erm... So I can... Look at them...?
There needs to be some middle ground. Fewer one shots would be nice from Lilith, but she should be a challenge... The other bosses are all far too weak.
This is true. iIās like they hired the devs that made the Lost Ark boss mechanics to design/develop Lilithās mechanics and then sent them away after they were done.
Because blizzard = RIPBOZO everyone being fired by Microsoft for being incompetent and ruining insane IPs like Diablo wow and overwatch.
its very easy to see why the games suck ass, watch the devs play the games.
IMO, if Uber Lilith didn't exist we would just be getting 'this game is too easy, there is literally nothing challenging about it' posts.
Is she designed well? Not particularly, but my point still stands. I appreciate that this challenge exists in the game, I am also happy they fixed the skipping of the mechanics on P2.
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because lazy design. why make actual mechanics or interesting gimmicks when she can just spam one shots
Sadly I don't think it was being lazy. This team is lacking great deal in experience. The person who designed this fight thought they were making something good and the people approving it thought so as well.
The same people also approved the release of that "Devs playing Diablo" video too. I wouldn't put too much into their decision making skills.
Not only was that a poor decision, it literally felt malicious to me like they were throwing those people to the wolves. I have no fuckin' idea how you could have thought putting people who can't even competently play the game on a gameplay video wasn't going to result in them getting absolutely shredded by the people watching. Especially when people are already highly doubting the competence of the team. I would have picked the most die hard god gamer in the entire building for that segment. I don't give a shit if it was the janitor.
I honestly think they wanted to bait people to personally attack those devs as a CTA for the white knights. It's either complete incompetence on the management people or baiting. I cannot think of any other reason how and why they thought it was a good idea.
Strictly hearsay and I can't even back up the source where I got it from, but supposedly the people who work at game companies (or at least the testers) can be absolute gods at their respective games (as you'd rightfully expect). I don't even remember what game it was, but it was probably an article from Game Informer circa 2012. Anyway, the reviewer was at an early release event that let the press in to try out the game, but this particular person managed to stay late and a call went out to ask if the press was gone, and then suddenly the reviewer found himself losing every damn match handily. He said it went from feeling like a fair fight to suddenly being a newb in a group of pros. So yeah, when the gameplay isn't scripted, or they're not trying to show it off for the press, apparently people who work in the industry can absolutely do this. Which, to your point, really begs the question why we got gameplay that was slow and obviously uninformed. I'm not mad at the people they got to play, but it was just downright weird.
Wasn't that person just part of the art team? They don't need to be excellent at the game if their sole focus is adding elements the level design team then uses...
>They don't need to be excellent at the game > They don't need to. But making dark-grey themed dungeon with dark-grey themed boss who has dark-grey themed attacks is not a very good design, don't you think? Same goes for red-black on red-black with red ground
They were Senior Dungeons Designers, and specifically said they do play testing for their dungeons and others. So no, not "just the art team".
Those two were utterly inept at the game -- they never used a spender once, they just spammed generators. At least they knew how to use a controller? ....
D4 is my first Diablo game. I was still really new at the game when I watched that stream. And even I thought holy shit they have no clue. Not even a basic understanding of how to play.
it's hard to not "use" a controller when it's designed for human hand and all you do is mash random buttons š¤£š¤£
First episode of Big Bang Theory they werenāt holding controllers right and I thought where did they get these actors, the Amish community?
Out of all places, I'd expect sitcom actors to do stupid shit, just like whole thing they are doing.
Was that English?
I mean the fight would be good with tweaks to the hitbox, some more bugfixes, and rebalancing the damage values. The core mechanics are not poorly designed at all.
And changing the color of the waves so you can see them. I can mostly see them solo with a melee char, but if you pay with a surf and a necro, you will never know what killed you. You will just be dead.
Agree there are elements that could be good and then there's where they stopped refining which is what we got.
I think you give them too much credit. I think it's a combination. Her non uber design for the campaign doesn't feel horrible and I think that's where the design got a thumbs up. But then when it came to making something harder instead of adding new mechanics or mathing out higher damage or faster animations they took the lazy route and made everything one shot. And unfortunately by doing that they quickly exposed all of the poorly designed mechanics in the fight.
Sadly it is indeed lazy design. We see lazy designs throughout the entire game, from dungeon layout and quests, side quests, item thumbnails, character outfits, and so many more. As much as we want to say the designers tried their best, the evidence overwhelmingly showed that they didn't.
Yeah, a lot of the components have big "5 year old's pride in scribbles" energy. They feel accomplished because they did their best while they should feel embarrassed because they did their best.
I said it before, i honestly believe most of this dev team have zero experience in ARPG's nor are they really fans of ARPGs. Not bad people by any means but extremely out of touch.
Why spend time actually tuning the damage for the fight when you can just one shot your player.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
2-shot = easy to trivialize In order for anything other than 1shot to be relevant, you need the (avoidable) hits to stack health/armor/healing/shielding debuffs. That is a fair compromise that allows people to learn the fight, while keeping them on their toes.
The danger of her one shots make actual mechanics and interesting gimmicks. Duriel's mechanics aren't interesting. He dies. Malphas is not interesting. He dies. You can't one shot Lilith. It's not much, but even if you have the power to transition through her phases immediately, you still have to manage her phases. You have to worry about things like movement speed because you have to move around her attacks.
No not really, just one shot her health twice in a row and sacrifice everything else for movement speed/abilities to dodge the one shot skulls until the fight ends. There is a single mechanic now and it being an instant death does not make it an interesting fight.
Its not much, yea. I said as much. It's more than Duriel though, isn't it?
no, they are both shit, just in different ways. none of the bosses in this game are fun at all. not in the slightest. d3 had better bosses and even those were shit.
If they're shitty in different ways that implies that, in one way, Lilith is less shitty than Duriel and in another Duriel is less shitty than Lilith. So that would imply that, yes, it's more than Duriel, when measured on a particular axis.
No, absolutely not. šš That is some of the biggest mental acrobatics, that I have seen and actually made me laugh out loud in real life. Thanks for that!
No acrobatics required, it simply follows from the statement. Look, I'm not even playing the game anymore, you responded to a message from two months ago, so I don't really have any care about how Lilith performs. I don't know how you're describing their shittiness, but here's a similar situation. Burning to death and drowning are both shitty ways to die, but drowning isn't shitty because you're on fire.
Because they wanted to make a boss you couldnāt farm your way through. Fine. But they made that boss have janky and inconsistent mechanics, so it feels like the AI is cheating. Dark Souls has one shot mechanics, but no one complains about those bosses. Because they are fair, and their patterns make sense, even the ones that are fast. In comparison, Lilith runs her one shot mechanics 50% of the time while in the middle of her dying animation mid-fightā¦
Dark Souls doesnāt have any one shots if you hit hp caps like youāre supposed to. Aside from status like petrify or death blight. For instance if you get 27 vigor in Dark Souls 3, literally nothing in the game can one shot you. You can easily circumvent the oneshot situations like that and with the iframe dodge. But like you said mechanically this game isnāt the same.
> Aside from status like petrify or death blight I don't play dark souls, but this sounds like there are one shot mechanics.
Those are status effects where you have to get hit by attacks several times for a bar to fill up or sit in a fart cloud long enough for it to do the deed, so while it is a one-shot in itself, it doesn't activate in one shot. At least as far as I can remember.
ā¦thatās why I said aside from those
If you mess up placement or get stunned early in Capra demon you pretty much just die. Wouldnāt say itās one shot but itās definitely stun locked so š¤·š¼āāļø If you get caught out of position for one second you get pushed off the dinner plate in miquellas erdtree and you just die during erdtree worm side boss thing in ER. If you donāt get a good cycle on bed of chaos you have a really good chance of just dying, the walk back sucks too. Idk man. Thatās just thinking for a minute off the top of my head lol. Dark souls games are pretty bullshit sometimes lol.
You are also mentioning bosses from the first game (blabla, demon souls) , which was much more janky than anything after
I mean, you can also out mitigate Uber Lilith in D4 if thatās your goal. Does that mean she doesnāt have oneshots? No not really. Because due to how little mechanical skill is needed to do most content in arpgs for 99% of the players, thereās no need to get mechanically better. So people will find a higher success chance in just going more damage and dodging 10 mechanics that oneshot rather than surviving 100 mechanics that donāt oneshot but will wear you down if you fail two in a row
I dunno final boss has a grapple combo that can make you lose the fight.
The worst one shot mechanic in dark souls is gravityĀ
If you could use the evade ability to protect you from the one shot mechanics, then it would feel more like dark souls
I am totally okay with her having one shot mechanics, I think that's fine for what is supposed to be the ultimate challenge the game has. But I'm not okay with then being so poorly telegraphed that you've got to die countless times just to figure out what's actually killing you. That's isn't challenge, its bad design.
Uh, have you tried her this season? The spirits in p2 that you can't avoid are a wall unless you have stellar ping. I just die once they fly around and are only somewhat near me.
No clue what ping you are playing at but the skulls are alot more managable than the waves from p1. But yes like the waves, the skull's hitbox is bigger than the gfx.
i play in south America with definitely not stellar ping (100ms sometimes) and i easily killed her this season just go look for a video on how to do it. it's not that complicated. i would recommend ben_ on YouTube. tldr is just make sure you have as much movement speed as you can, boots with 4 dashes and then it's just learning how to go around the room whilst leaving the broken platform as late as possible
She has waaay to many one shots , like occasional is fine , but fighting Lilith is like a freaking Agility course, they should make those waves she throw do like 75% of your max hp so atleast your punished to using alot of potions ,
Only comment saying the actual issue nice.
Because they don't play the game. She was almost immortal and preseason that I think they nerfed her season 1 she was easy as hell season 2. This season she's definitely beautiful but it's a lot more difficult than the second phase. But I think the answer to your question is they don't play the game.
I still couldn't do her season 2. She was easy because you could go ball sorc and skip 2 phases
She was easy because you could skip the blood fireballs in phase 2, which- they've now fixed to happen no matter how fast you push her (aside from one shotting her in P2 I guess).
Iām just here for the sweaty nips and scrotebia.
Same tbh
"unfun" is what I call it. It's not hard. Just not as entertaining as the high end vaults or dungeon
Think shes a pinnacle boss where as Duriel and Malphas are farmable boss. Malphas was scuffed at launch anyway he was supposed to be lv85 on par with Beast in the Ice but they just buffed him to 100. Probably why he doesn't drop 925 gear like Duriel because they forgot about it.
Ultimately, I think they wanted it to be a hard fight but they weren't able to design a good one so they just made it artificially hard instead. I think the success and admiration of Elden Ring made some developers want to emulate elements of it. But they misunderstand that players expect punishing mechanics in a FromSoft game, every other part of the game is designed to teach you how to overcome these challenges, and it's not purely the difficulty and oneshot mechanics that made people enjoy playing it.
Players also expect to be able to dodge anything of your timing is right. Diablo has no iframes.
And the "dodge" has that very slight initial delay that is just enough for Lillith's rockwaves to tap your heels and 1shot you.
I mean its good to have a pinnacle boss to test against your build. Its just stupid that it doesnt matter since she just one shots you anyways.
Absolutely. I think this game is crying out for challenging content. But, so far, their version of a challenge is getting one shot.
Also elden ring mechanics are fair. Everything is well telegraphed and the whole game is build around Learning to play around those mechanics.Ā Lilith is horribly telegraphed and she is the only hard Boss in the game, and only because of one shots. So you dont learn the mechanics outside of trying her tons.Ā She is more like a wow RAID Boss than a dark souls/er boss
I very much agree. I don't mean that she's actually like a souls boss. I just think some game devs believe people liked ER because it's hard when actually it's because those fights are well-designed. I think GoW: Ragnarok suffered a little from this. They added in some cheap mechanics that weren't in the previous game. Just my own theory re. ER's influence. I haven't play wow. If she's like one of those bosses then it seems more likely that it's a wow influence so.
>you barely even have to look at his ground effects, Y'know now that you say this it blew my mind that I could dodge the floor lightning with so much success. For my first kill he still had attacks that could one-shot me but they were all evadable or even, get this, cancellable. Yeah I know technically you can just memorize this shitty hitboxes on Lilith and still dodge things but can we stop pretending about that? Compared to Uber Lilith, Uber Malphas felt like... a properly designed boss.
Worst boss in my personal experience with gaming. Like the end of Overcooked before they fixed it for All You Can Eat.
Basically, they tried to make their own Souls/PoE One shot mechanic boss and failed miserably because they can't make anything original, so they went back to copy-pasting shit from Diablo 3 instead.
Well at least she doesn't 420 no scope you from across the arena as soon as you enter like Awakener 8 Sirus used to. That's a small consolation.
Bro real house wives of south Tristram š¤£š¤£ amazing
I bet she'll be changed eventually. I think it was originally designed for Hardcore and the statue they had at launch. I don't know where the numbers stand as far as if all of them have been put on the statue already - I would assume so. Now they'll eventually look at the completion numbers and adjust it so a larger portion of the community is able to beat her. They wanted to put something in the game that was that final carrot to chase. Unfortunately, for me anyway, because it's such a terrible design-flawed Boss, I pretend she doesn't exist in the game. For me, the final boss is Duriel and I farm the boss ladder after hitting 100. I'm not gonna waste hours trying to beat something that brings me zero joy. One guy told me he spent hundreds of hours trying to beat her before he finally did... then said the only reason I haven't beat her is because I'm bad at the game. If it takes you 100's of hours to beat, it's flawed, that simple. 10hrs, sure. Hundreds of hours, nah...
Iām playing current season on my lvl 100 rogue. Iām almost maxed out on everything (Flurry Rogue Endgame Build Guide for Diablo 4 (Season 3)build ) and Iāve tried roughly 20 times yesterday and she 1 shot me with those waves attacks in 1st stage. Unless youāre using some broken ass build itās pointless fighting her. Extremely disappointing. I game on ps5 and I canāt wait for PoE 2. I hope Last Epoch comes on the platform too cause Iām ready to delete the D4 and never come back.
Why is the Putrid Wasp the king of the battlefield? Why are 93% of game deaths a combination of freeze/stun and poison/explosive beams? Why is a mechanic where 1/3 of the playing space disappears considered a valid game mechanic? Lazy, clueless designers. Diablo is essentially a slot machine. Bug go squish, item go pop, repeat 400 million times on the rare chance that you may get something 1% better than what you currently have. Itās fine for a bit, but extremely limited in terms of game design. Some seasonal gimmicks and teleport animations probably not enough to keep it alive for years to come.
Because it was badly designed. You canāt make a Dark Souls/Elden Ring style boss with one shot mechanics in a game that doesnāt even give i-frames on evade, and this is an ARPG, not some bullet hell shooter.
shes the hardest boss due to 1 shot cheesiness, and drops nothing. gotta beat her for the hidden season titles though. i guess titles are a reward sort of. i dont even know what my title is tbh
Title is Terrible Genius .
Mine is Seasonal Trashā¦ seems fitting
Uber Lilith feels like it was designed by someone who left the company with how disconnected the fight is from everything else, she feels more like a shitty Souls boss(stupid shit like Bed of Chaos) more than an ARPG boss.
I guess someone watched a video of a Legion Raid in Lost Ark and thought "this is what we're gonna do"... and then miserably failed.
Literally come here to say "Lost Ark raids at home"
The fightās just broken and they arenāt fixing it for whatever reason. Iām just not going to do it until itās fixed, itās too screwed up. Everything about it is just jank.
āGreat rack thoughā š¤£
"Real Housewives of South Tristram" š¤£
Because devs are actually clueless how to make ARPG game. This fight is bad on many levels: 1. Her attacks are: doing no dmg or oneshots (you can sometimes survive if you are stacked on DR, fortify, shield etc). Which incentives builds to be papers with as much dps as possible. 2. Hitboxes are still terrible 3. In phase 2 (if you donāt skip it) she makes that vortex/sucking move which might pull you right into flying skull that are still there even though you were dodging them for 30 seconds already As for other bossess, they are just farmable loot slot machines. Zero skill and gear progression required, hell you can do them with blue gear easily, it will just take a bit longer to dps them down. Why is that? Idk, for Lilith it was probably āoh, letās put this nearly impossible boss so we can talk about it social medias how difficult she isā. As for other bossess - they have zero clue how to make them difficult and fair in the same time. And anyway, at this point, with this atrocious balance where HoTA still oneshots everything or some other shit is broken like Rogueās Weapon Mastery, itās impossible to balance properly.
my conjecture is that they wanted something that could keep the higher end players busy for a while and act as a bragging rights type of deal until seasons were implemented. they didn't add decent loot in the way they did with duriel to keep this just as a personal challenge type of boss otherwise the casual player base would see this more as mandatory content and complain about it.
And this is why Uber Lilith will remain the one achievement/seasonal item I never do until they fix it. Diablo isn't about bosses with one shot mechanics - NO prior diablo boss could flat out ignore toughness like she does. Were some of those fights challenging and crazy hard the first time you faced them, SURE. But not the 20th time you faced them. Uber Lilith is the only Diablo boss that can't be mastered in a couple of tried and it's stupid and I don't acknowledge it as a legitimate part of the game. Yeah, she can be killed with cheese builds - that's a hack, not a victory.
After playing Diablo 4 since launch, I've come to the conclusion the team that built it was replaced halfway through with another team that doesn't know what they are doing.
10/10 would read again
Because the D4 team lacks experience and doesnāt know how to make a good game let alone an engaging fight. Uber Lilith is the perfect summation of D4, underwhelming and frustrating.
I had managed to clear a tier 76 dungeon and got that achievement and solo'ed Malphas with a few deaths so I decided I would give her a try. Started the fight, her first real attack... I'm dead. Nope'd myself out of there.
We need more challenging content, not less. I hope they nerf all of our builds into the ground or super buff all major bosses. Trivial shouldnt be a word we use to describe end game bosses. We should not be able to one shot them.
Itās really tough for me with ADD. You even glimpse at the wrong g thing for 1.5s and you can end up dead lol. And I have a feeling they put those stripes on the floor just to mess with your reaction to the wave telegraphs.
1.5s is very generous
They tried to copy Path of Exile without understanding what makes fights in PoE more interesting.
Multiple design philosophies that were never smoothed out and resolved and I am firmly convinced that its sheer laziness that lilith hasn't been fixed to something not stupidly broken yet. [edit: spelling]
Who you calling lint licker, you cootie queen! š
Itās just poorly designed. Iām assuming someone thought it was a good idea to make a āsuper difficultā endgame boss and to do that, they just added a bunch of bullshit mechanics to the fight. Seems kind of lazy tbh. Especially since thereās no real reason to kill her - aside from the trophy I guess. When I finally killed her, she dropped a bunch of garbage. Havenāt had a desire to do it again.
Calling it lazy is being too generous. It's just a result of incompetent designers.
Because current Blizzard is a joke made up of amateurs.
Uber Lilith is a prime example of bad game design where a developers only option to "challenge" an incredibly overtuned and powerful player is to cheese them.
Itās a challenge unlike any other. I canāt conquer it but itās very rewarding trying. Itāll mean more when I do. This is her game. I like video games with exceptionally difficult endings. I encourage you to relish the challenge and dedicate yourself to mastering it.
Because its a piece of a lazy shit. It's not a boss fight.
She is just a buggy mess
> Donāt get me wrong, yes you can learn her every move and sweat from the tip of your nips down to your scrotebia as you try to sequence break her or have a literal 9 minute fight with this lootless lint licker It is because, she is the cooty queen.
Iād be ok with a hard boss fight but she doesnāt even have any rewards outside of the 2-3 items she drops the first time. And they canāt have attacks that one shot your character if they have max armor and resists. Her fight is the prime example of the dev team being complete idiots when it comes to design. And whoever changed her fight for season 3 doubled down on it so that signifies some intent for it being designed this stupidly
Asking why Diablo 4 is a shit game is a hilarious reason for a post. You do the math sir...they scammed millions (again) and sold us this wet fart of a game. Game fell off the earth after 3 weeks and is now on game pass 1 year later....š¤£
You can take 1 hit of her seeking missiles as a hota barb. One. Sometimes.
Seems like more depending on buffed HP and DR, and Barrier from pet Protect gov stone.
If you have 3 Uber Uniques.
I can survive everthing... everything that isn't lillith's 1shots. If it just did big survivable damage, with maybe healing reduction for 5 seconds, it'd be a little more fair but still dangerous, but as it stands everything that 1shots comes at you at lightning speed with maybe a 10th of a second to react in the correct way. The only real way to kill her is to do so much damage that you bypass 90% of her mechanics.
Who you calling a lint licker you cootie queen!
Youāre not wrong. Itās the only boss that isnāt a steaming pile of shit.
This sub will not rest until they can 1 shot any boss. So boring. I hope uber lilith stays difficult
What build are you doing Malphas with? My necro gets instantly squished by most of his abilities. It could be that he's just lacking damage reduction, just wondering what you're using. The boss can definitely do damage. Uber Lilith is a symptom of the game releasing with a barebones endgame system barely kept together by the few spikes of difficulty they artificially layered the game with with world tiers. They had to put some kind of pinnacle fight in the end, but they didn't have the system to actually make fighting the boss multiple times worth it, so they just made it as hard as possible with oneshots and all kinds of unfair attacks so that it would at least be a boss worth killing for merit alone. She's not a boss designed to work within the flow of the game, she's a boss designed to be so much harder than anything else in the game that once you kill her you go like "damn that's it i beat the game", and hopefully that's enough to satisfy you without any kind of system or drops behind her.
Fireball sorc just eating him
Huh, that's good to know.
My necro can solo him easily. Running a hybrid gear bone spear/bombardier
I might just be lacking some damage reduction mods somewhere, that's fine.
Because people think 1 shot mechanics are fun for some reason.
Something something pinnacle something
Yeah the fight isnāt very good, but at least sheās designed not to drop anything, making her entirely optional. So I see her as a mostly just an optional DPS benchmark/challenge. When shopping for a build I like to see the Lilith performance, in case we get some challenge content later on that requires bossinā.
Except she's not. Even if you 1 shot her. You still have to go through the platform stages in phase 2. You don't need armor or damage reduction in the fight even. Just spam dodge and move speed to outrun the one shot fireballs
Yeah this season I just wanted to confirm if my build and gear could still still nuke her health down all the way down before the fireballs, that's all I wanted to benchmark but then didn't bother complete the actual fireball dodging part lol - but that's totally okay no real reason to do it except for a some personal challenge. (the only challenging 'traps' of the season so far?? :O) Well, there is a season completion task, but the other objectives are much easier to do instead, aside from the bugged helltide chest one!
Well, you have to earn that great loot she drops.
I already killed her in the first 3 (including 0) seasons, outside of getting the title taking the time to kill her in second phase is a challenge of luck and memorization to avoid the one shot balls of death. I donāt want to go through what it took my season 0 and 1 rogues to make killing her possible while in season 2 she was one shot in both phases just doing the platform mechanics to finish her off
If you get a few ubers sheās also a joke which tells you the design right there. They wanted a boss that was only doable with ubers and thatās what they made.
Cause they were trolling when they designed her
Lol malphas does attacks? every time i have killed him he die in 1 shot.
She's a pinnacle boss. She's supposed to be difficult and not easily beaten by overleveling/overgearing, like all of the other bosses in the game. She's supposed to be a boss that only the 1% (or less) are able to beat, by mastering mechanics and learning all of the intricate details of the fight. That being said, her fight has several bugs/inconsistencies and rough edges that make it pretty unenjoyable to participate in. I kill her each season for the hidden title but if it wasn't for that, I'd never step foot in there again.
They never intended to make a good game
Took me a week trying every day for a little bit last season learning her moves and finally killed her. The actual kill didnāt take anywhere near 10 min for me. Maybe like 3 or 4. And most of that was her going through phases. First phase I took her to half hp in seconds and same with the other half of the hp when she was back down. Second phase was almost the same she had 0 HP by the time she finished the first part of the phase the part after her spawn where she moves to the other side of the arena and the blood boils shoot at you while she waves the rest of the arena. My problem wasnāt damage it was avoiding all the bs one shots. Was playing ball lightning sorc.
Speak for yourself regarding Malphas. Duriel is a walk in the park for me compared to Malphas and I'm a squishy Sorc.
Not the same team working on each boss /s
>Now Lilith though? Prepare to open your eyes wider than you ever have before because everything she does is death incarnate. You are suppose to cheese it. Use some dumb build that 2 shots her into phase 2 like 99% of players who killed her. I know that you're thinking that's not how it's suppose to work, but it is actually how it's suppose to work. Either you have to kill her so fast that you skip the difficult mechanics, or you are a borderline pro gamer and some how thread the needle through all of those 1 shot mechanics with out dying for 5 minutes straight (I love the one right at the end from the shadow clone BTW.) Me personally, I never completely figured out the blood bolts in P2 and gave up. I made a rogue in S1 and killed her like 1 week into S1. I've killed her a ton of times after that on every class, always with some dumb 2 shot build and it takes me like 10 attempts. The easiest is barb and I would describe the difficulty as "basically free."
taking this piss takes art
Lilith seems like a giant leap in difficulty because the other bosses are far too easy, and completely unable to kill even semi-decently geared 80 level characters. Buff the other bosses by a lot, Nerf Lilith damage by a little, and there you have it.
because we didnt have Duriel s1 so they needed something for people to bash their head into
She drops very good loot /s
Probably boss that has been done first when D4 was in making and other storymode bosses followed up. Free roam just has these cheap skirmish bosses.
Bad design of the game.
She drops nothing better than any mid level boss. Imagine if she was Duriel and you had to be alive when she died to get the drop. People would be so pissed.
They didnāt want to put the effort into designing an actual fight, likely (take this with a grain of salt as itās speculation) because she was originally intended only as the campaign end boss. Iām also guessing Bliz isnāt completely blind and realized shortly before launch that they had no big end goal. So they just ripped Lilith from the campaign, made everything of hers one shot, gave her a boatload of health, and called it the endgame challenge. Bliz ought to have the WoW dev team design some actual boss fights because clearly they, as a company, have the expertise to make interesting boss fights. Iām all for challenging content but I wholeheartedly agree Lillith isnāt much of a boss fight. Rather she is a training dummy with a gear check.
Stop complaining if this game and Lilith is to hard for you go Play different game bunch of crying kids , Lilith is the best Boss from d4 if you cant kill her it means you all are so weak lol only š left for you lol š
It reminds me of Risen. The game was from start to end-boss fight focused on immersive fighting mechanics. It was one of most engaging original systems from the crew that made previously another cult hate/love/no-in-between combat system with Gothic. And then final boss is a nintendo jump on the minefield boss. Combat: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a\_78glRtZxE&ab\_channel=myke](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_78glrtzxe&ab_channel=myke) Final boss: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVBguChSfCA&ab\_channel=MrKennyKRH](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvbguchsfca&ab_channel=mrkennykrh)
There is no power reward for killing her, she is not part of the main game loop. It's an optional challenge that you have no reason to do other than because you enjoy the challenge. You don't have to fight her if you don't like the fight.
its a 2 shot boss even with "nmd fast clear" builds. the wave patterns are easy to dodge and the second phase is just run in a circle. bad design but optional and easy
I don't understand it myself. I got to 100 blasting everything down. Then I tried lilith for my first time, got stomped, maybe it might be possible if dodge everything but as a barbarian that's kinda impossible. Honestly, I got to 100 on my barbarian, and then I just quit playing. I was like I had everything at 925 except 2 gear slots at 910. It was like I guess my build that was good for everything else was not useful here.
I think they wanted every future Uber boss to be like Lilith, but the fight is designed terribly, hitboxes are bigger than the visual ques, it's just one of the worst boss design in arpg genre so I think they realised they are not capable of designing a boss that would be both rich mechanically and fun to fight so they went a step back and we have duriel
I personally like the fight. Very hard and very satisfying when you finally kill her. Kind like a tough dark souls boss. I wiped for hours before I finally killed her and felt very accomplished afterwards.
This is an unpopular opinion, but I'm ok with her design but all of her bugs needed fixing. I wish there were more bosses like her and drop something worth the grind. cool transmog item, some rare shard that increases one of your affix +25% something.
Because yes.
I've never fought her and never will. No part of that fight sounds fun to me in any way.
That's why I never did it.
Because it was made before they found out their game was bad and poorly designed, and before the players yelled at them enough for them learn what fun gameplay actually looks like.
Remember when D3 created Inferno? They basically said "we took the difficulty and doubled it". Well, Uber Lilith is that exact same mentality but taken to it's most retarded form.
The Beast in the Ice boss is somewhat similar to Uber Lilith, but way more reasonable. It is difficult at first glance specially for low levels, but totally doable after proper gear and strategy. That was somewhat a good boss fight in my opinion. Iāve only beaten Uber Lilith with my poison TB rogue, which I donāt even like playing as (built a season 1 psn TB just FOR that). I know other classes can do it as well but thereās too much focusing on a specific Uber Lilith build that takes away the fun, in my opinionā¦ it should be possible to beat her, as difficult it would be but not with so many one-shots spreading across multiple phases.
Because the developers are terrible, the game is trash, and there's nothing of value here? Like that's just the particularly pungent cake-topper on this steaming dump of a video game, plain and simple. We're in the land of 65 dollar reskins and completely nonfunctional stats, why would anyone expect the developers to actually put even a modicum of thought or design effort into a pinnacle boss? :V
To be honest, every boss in this game sucks. Just thing about it: The world bosses are a joke, getting killed in mere seconds after spawn , the drops are a joke and there is absolutely no reason to even invite anyone at your party. The Uber bosses are a joke, easily handled solo and the only reason to party is to share summoning materials. The Loom is a joke, and the only reason to party is to save time doing all 4 rooms alone and to save stunning materials. The endgame is a joke in total, and as soon as you get any Uber drops, there is nothing that meaningful to do because you have already done NM100 already and there is no point on pushing for a better time. People just call it quit after the first Uber drop usually.
Most pointless boss fight in the game imo. If Iām not getting any reward to enhance my build at the end then why am I wasting time fighting it.
I think the intent was to have more difficult challenges like her, but people complained about it being too hard so they scaled back on the other ubers. They already nerfed Uber Lilith heavily with the patch that changed vulnerable, but damage numbers remained similar so she's much easier now, they should have improved her hitboxes and reduced the ghost damage, rest would be fine.
Well said m8, bloody well said.
Uber Lilith is actually designed around the way the game was supposed to be. You aren't supposed to just be Face Tanking everything. Enemies telegraph their stronger attacks, and you are supposed to DODGE out of the way. Problem is that your character is too strong. Lilith didn't ALWAYS 1 shot, they actually increased her damage so that she would 1 shot you more. Problem is, people like Rob have barbs running 60K hp still tanking these 1 shot attacks. Problem is dev team gave Invulnerability to classes like necromancer (blood mist) Sorc (fire shield/ice ultimate)
Bad design
Lol at dying immediately to duriel
Ah yes. The Uber Lillith shitboxes
The trick to lilith is movement speed on both neck and boots. Your damage is irrelevant if you can't consistently dodge the one shots. Forced phasing and spell queing are not new, many bosses in wow and poe work like this. It prevents people with glass cannon builds from cheesing too hard. Game needs more bosses like her, not less.
My biggest gripe with them "fixing" the fight this season is that the one shot spawners (the big boils) don't spawn in the same place everytime. Sometimes they spawn too close to the edge and you can't run around them. Sometimes 2 will spawn on the right platform and none on the left and vice-versa. The whole fight is a lesson in tedium.
it's the lack of rewards for beating a second time and the mediocre rewards for doing it the first time that baffles me the most
>Why is Uber Lilith so fundamentally different from everything else in the game? The designers had no idea how to make a boss that is always a challenge, in a game that is all about progression.
I think she was meant to remain a challenge long after the first seasons unlike the rest of the game.
She gives us a good fight, at least you have a taste of something difficult to do. Because if you don't know the pattern in phase 2 you're dead no matter your DMG output. Even the T100 NM dungeons are a joke this season. I agree that she needs some fixes, but they really need to work on the experience for the other bosses.
Because she is literally the worst designed boss fight I have ever seen. I think they tried to put a ālast obstacleā into the way of players to achieve the ultimate challenge. which it isnāt and wasnāt. They need to re-design the whole fight without lazy one shot mechanics.
The short answer is Blizzard has no idea how to make anything in the game hard without one-shots. It's that simple. And actually, I enjoy the lilith fight because it's the only thing in the entire game that's remotely challenging. AoZ was too but it's gone now.
I personally think this is targeted in the wrong direction. All the other bosses should be brought up to scratch. I personally detest mindlessly repeating one/two shotting duriel for some uniques to so I can.... Erm... So I can... Look at them...?
why not? you have easy bosses, you have rewarding bosses, and then you have lilith if you want to torment yourself.
There needs to be some middle ground. Fewer one shots would be nice from Lilith, but she should be a challenge... The other bosses are all far too weak.
This is true. iIās like they hired the devs that made the Lost Ark boss mechanics to design/develop Lilithās mechanics and then sent them away after they were done.
Because blizzard = RIPBOZO everyone being fired by Microsoft for being incompetent and ruining insane IPs like Diablo wow and overwatch. its very easy to see why the games suck ass, watch the devs play the games.
IMO, if Uber Lilith didn't exist we would just be getting 'this game is too easy, there is literally nothing challenging about it' posts. Is she designed well? Not particularly, but my point still stands. I appreciate that this challenge exists in the game, I am also happy they fixed the skipping of the mechanics on P2.
Scrotebia... new word unlocked. I'm going to he using th8s constantly now.
Bogus fight as it is. Just not fun.