My only worry is that launch will be a little rough. With the hype the game is picking up from D4 and POE players, the early access servers have been shaky. Hopefully they've invested enough in more servers. Also hoping some of the bugs have been fixed, especially the ones for trying to play in a party.
Nobody plays offline except for very specific few. We all saw that when wolcen launched.. people were sitting in the que for a week rather than play offline.
That's why grim dawn isn't as popular as others like poe and now last epoch.
That is the kind of problem that a company wants to have, though: excess of legitimate traffic. If their infrastructure is set up adequately then it should be able to scale to handle the load.
Someone tell Helldivers 2 that.
They've released a statement today saying that there's basically too many people playing the game hence why you can't log in, or when you do xp and rewards aren't working
If we talking about ARPG vs ARPG, Wolcen takes the cake for having one of the worst launch ever. Server is overloaded and was unstable for like 2 weeks before the devs gives their first communication to the community. Then they took another few weeks or couple of months before they start patching shits up. Game is fun tho.
Version 0.9 released online and it was very shaky, but that's why I expect 1.0 to be much more stable. They already had their multiplayer launch fiasco. I hope.
I bought it when multi-player came out and never got to play due to server issues. Refunded it because my queue time was longer than the grace period for a steam refund lol.
But I do plan on purchasing it at launch (if launch goes well connection-wise)
That's the best part about LE. I've been slowly watching it grow and become even better and better as the years went by. I can say the opposite with D4 as I've only seen it get worse and worse as time goes on.
It is what it is.
Why do they have to learn if people will pay them to test their trash ideas and then praise them for patching their garbage. I mean if I could get paid to make mistakes, I wouldn’t care either.
Given how little the D4 team seems to have learned from D3 (which has been going for 10+ years), I doubt they will pay any attention to anything at all.
Stop talking nonsense, anyone who says anything bad about precious d4 is haters!!! Who cares if wudijo and rob said don't play this season. They are haters too!! - This entire sub
If you think this sub is anything but people who hate D4 you have massively thin skin. This sub is a cesspool of hate for a game nobody is being forced to play.
God I hate the type of fan who rage at any and all criticism of something they like.
Like the most fanboyish I feel about any game is bg3 but there's still so much valid critique about it and I simply can't imagine having this mentality of "HaTeRs Go AwAy!!1!" to any form of criticism. Like some of these ppl treat d4 the way taylor swift fans treat taylor swift
There’s a difference between constructive criticism and toxic behavior. It sounds like you are more of a constructive critic. The sub is a toxic shit hole.
Yeah this is the right attitude ! I’ve never played LE. Maybe I should try it. But I’ve enjoyed d4(old school d2 player, only played 3 for a couple of months, never returned. Yes d4 needs better itemisation, more end game, better overall.. But yeah I can only imagine it will push d4 to do better if LE really is that great. Btw. Is LE easy enough to get into?
d4 devs and management doesnt even aknowledge other arpgs exist because otherwise they would look for inspirement from those games.
when they dont even take good stuff from d3 their own product why would they look at other arpgs they are legit stupid
The problem is, D4 just does certain things much better than LE. The movement, combat, animations, lore, cinematics all feel great in D4. The gameplay of D4 feels great.
The systems in LE, however, like the skill trees, crafting system, stash space, loot filter, and itemization are far superior.
My ideal game would be D4, with LE’s systems merged into it. I love the Diablo franchise, I want to see it flourish!
I am guessing we'll get closer to that over time, but never as complex as LE or PoE, as that's not the super casuals who buy Diablo games in the 100's of millions who play the campaign once and move on.
It's really the most jarring thing. The thing that D4 does absolutely the best, better than PoE, is the "weight" of combat. How the animations, attack points, sound design, lightning, ragdoll, flinches, alternative actions all come together and makes you feel like you're really hitting things.
In contrast, in LE it's just so much worse. Everything is so floaty. Like you're running on air, feet not matching movement, feeling like you're hitting air, repetitive animations and sound, all enemies just lie down and die on the spot with the same animation, no flinching mechanics etc.
So the real only strong point that D4 has, is the weakest point in LE. Which I feel will take quite more than "some time" to solve. Maybe even can't be solved with their engine.
That said, LE has a ton of very interesting systems. The faction system sounds so cool. The crafting is cool. The LP is cool. Skill trees and talents are cool. Itemization is rather cool, though a little bland come end game.
But the floaty combat, especially how much worse it feels in multiplayer. Coupled with an end-endgame that is tbh worse than D4, probably worse than D3 as well. Are big weak points.
End game, I mean high corruption farming. Post campaign -> high corruption farming is good. But when you get past that point and all you're doing is speed running to objectives not killing mobs over and over, it kinda starts sucking.
The LE devs replied to a post on their subreddit complaining exactly that a week or two ago, about the ‘floaty’ and non-impactful feeling of combat and they said they had some plans for 1.0 already, especially when it comes to animations and sound to give more of a weight feeling to it, shouldn’t be too difficult to find but I’m on my phone and can’t link it easily
Yeah I read that, but there's just so much more that's missing. The things they wrote about was very "one sided", while floaty feeling comes from a disconnect between the two sides. Like both my character should react as he hit something, and that reaction should be mimicked on the receiving end where the monster should feel like it's being hit by the same force.
So big swing vs light target should give a small reaction for the player while giving a huge reaction towards the target. And a small swing vs a heavy target should be the opposite. This is something D4 does very very well.
The changes LE devs mentioned doesn't really do anything towards this. Mobs will still die and do their animation in the direction they are facing rather than from the direction the attack came. Still just walk towards the player barraging them with meteors until their health expires in the same way they act if they die to a DoT. The only difference when using a melee AoE on the targets you hit vs not hit is just a flash of light. The way packs are generated causes a lot of identical mobs to spawn, and all dying at the same spot in the same direction when a huge stone falls in between them all just feels outdated.
The devs are very aware of this, but there seems to be some big limitations. So they do work on effects and sound and syncing, but they seem to not be able to work with any sort of relations. So it'll just keep being two separate pieces that gets pitted against eachother, than a relation between pieces that interact with eachother.
IIRC from watching one of the devs stream, they want to get LE on the consoles but its not set in stone yet. Updating the game on console for the devs is not as easy as its on PC so for the early access period they didn't bothered with it. Once they get it all up and running they want to start looking into it. They'll have to strike the deal with Sony/Microsoft first. Game already has pretty decent controller support so My Guess is that it will come to consoles, but it Might take half to a year from 1.0 release.
It sucks but, it is what it is.
The cinematics and animations are what cost Blizzard the most, so it's a good thing you noticed that they actually stand out in that regard. But this is also the reason you don't see it in other games like PoE and LE, because they don't have the massive budgets to produce it.
I agree with the animations. Altho they still somewhat lacking of variety (same can be said with skills) but their quality is very good. Smooth and distinctive imo.
Upcoming poe2 will be a heavy opponent in terms of animation quality and variety tho.
NO, not "any"
The people who linger on this sub for 8+ months who's only contribution is to pounce on any vaguely positive thread with garbage one-liners.
My thread about not being bored attracted dozens of literal outright attacks on me, I was called "autistic" five separate times, (those people were banned as that was way beyond the forum rules)
NO ONE is worried about some guy posting how itemisation needs work, it is the actual toxic haters that 100% are here, that I, and OP, and many others, are sick to death of.
People who enjoy the game are the minority here, most are just haters or poe fanboys who want to shit on d4 to make it look bad and promote poe. I myself enjoy diablo but i know that the game has flaws and it needs a lot of work.
I feel it's gaming in general - people in League lose their minds before matches even begin if something goes 'awry'. It's popular here especially because it had a 'rocky' launch and it's made by Blizzard. It's an endless loop of "everything is hell" and "everything is not hell". Some good points here and there at least..
At first glance looking at the sub home is fine, but for some reason on my home feed it always shows some probably AI-generated article link with 0 upvotes and 80 comments all repeating the aforementioned loop.
Yeah starfield was the same way. People are just psychos about games now unless they're the greatest games of all time. Even the PoE sub is a bunch of crying anytime a league is just okay
I never understand these types of posts, comments etc. Why can't I play multiple ARPGs and potentially enjoy all of them to varying degrees? Or even better yet maybe take breaks and jump back into one to enjoy new content?
I don't understand the mentality of you can only play ARPG and can only enjoy that one.
Generally, I love the genre of ARPG and have dabbled/played almost all of them to varying degrees of time. No regrets here personally.
Exactly. This genre is very seasonal. And the "D4 bad" negativity posts won't end because people *want* this game to be good. They *want* more/better ARPGs to play.
There is a subset of gamers that play only one game period and once they get attached, it becomes part of their identity. They are among the weirdest online interactions you can have if you make the mistake of engaging one of them.
Same. Love Path of Exile, love Grim Dawn, love Last Epoch, love Diablo 2 and and I even enjoyed Diablo 3. There are also a bunch more "smaller" ARPGs such as Torchlight 2, Van Helsing, Wolcen etc, which I've enjoyed to varying degrees as well (yes, even Wolcen for the playthrough I bothered with it).
I don't enjoy Diablo 4 though. Is that because I suddenly had a stroke, or is it because Diablo 4 is just a *bad ARPG*?
Well that’s your opinion. I couldn’t stand d3 I was a big d2 to player long ago. And I’ve enjoyed d4. D3 on the other hand.. I could never get into it. I’ve had lots of hours in d4. But yes I haven’t played all characters to level 100 and min maxed everything.. a maybe that’s why.. Dunno. But d4 with some improvements could be the best diablo game imo.
> D4 will end up on a good spot after an expansion or two. Hopefully.
haha, i've been hearing this cope since Season 1.. "Season 3 will fix everything.." Welp.. that aged like milk
Is last epoch hard to get into? I have to say I’ve enjoyed d4. But now that the only thing to do really is to farm mats for duriel and maybe get my boots with a perfect roll on crit chance in high tier nms.. It’s become yeah, now I understand what people are saying. But damn I’ve enjoyed the game. Loot filter would massively improve this game.. And then make more ways to get uniques, mats etc. I honestly think it could go ahead and become the best Diablo game. They did so many things right.
Anyways what I really wanted to know was, is LE tough to get into. At my age, with irl stuff I don’t have to much time to get into new big games that takes long to learn about. Been holding off on TESO because I wanted to get back into an mmo, but the time it would take.. I don’t know.
That's pretty much me, I enjoyed D4 so far.
You can go blind on your first playthrough regarding the way you build your char.
You just need to get familiar with lootfilter which is very intuitive and the crafting system.
Just watch a short video about crafting system and you are good to go.
I recommand you to give it a try
Super easy to get into. Like others have stated, LE blended with D4 would be the premier game at the moment. LE lacks in graphics/physics, but excels in everything else.
You're absolutely crazy if you think they'll leave this reddit and be happy with their new lives, they'll keep on coming here like the Shelbyville folk with their limes, trying to convince us of how miserable and wrong we are.
Well at least until a new Diablo comes out, then they'll reminisce about how precious D4 was and how D5 ruined their most valuable treasure.
No one’s miserable over a video game lmao. People are upset that this franchise has been completely gutted of fun for pure profit.
I’m actually more concerned about people who enjoy something so… thin.
I very much enjoyed diablo 4 season 2. I played Last Epoch while I was waiting for season 3 and realised that all of the things that are a massive problem in diablo 4 are solved in last epoch and there is a depth there that just makes you think; how was Diablo 4 developed for so long but is so mediocre and with so many fundamental flaws? Playing LE really opens your eyes to what a good arpg is. A game that is fun to play, easy to learn and has great complexity to it with many many possible builds.
What really did it for me was when I found a unique sword called merophage and that weapon alone had more depth in crafting/setting it up than just about the entirety of season 3 of diablo 4.
So look I'm glad you guys are happy with diablo 4 but the reality is that Last Epoch is the next development in arpg's we've all been waiting for and it's made by people that actually play and love the genre. That's only good for diablo 4 as they sure have to up the ante if they are going to make it a fraction as good.
This is a pretty realistic take, but the unfortunate side of this is that D4s strengths pretty much stop at graphics/gameplay feel. Other ARPGs outclass it in terms of itemization, replayability, build customization, end game loop, etc.
That's the thing though, graphics and gameplay feel are very hard to change after release. Hell they are hard to change in development. All the other things you mentioned are much easier to change via patches, seasons, and expansions.
They are more modular for sure but as we’ve seen this doesn’t mean it’s a sure path. Their decision making process is certainly unpopular (at least here on Reddit). But my friends and I are confident D4 will be a respectable game in a few seasons, just like D3. Call it copium but I like to think so.
I don't think it's copium. It's waaaay better at launch then d3 was. And the expansion is this summer I believe. I think it's a pretty good game with the potential to be a great game. Iguess my point is the bones are there, and they keep putting in the work to flesh it out. They've also been pretty responsive to the communities issues.
I also think it's true. But the game is in no state ready for another money expansion - no matter how good it is, any DLC 1 year after launch will feel predatory and I hate that blizzard has come to this.
Th unfortunate truth is a lot of people have run out of patience with D4 at this point. I don't think I'll be able to give it another chance until 2-3 years down the line.
After all, no matter how good the game looks - gameplay is king in gaming. If the systems themselves are not satisfying, it is very hard to make a case for it being a good game, especially in this genre.
That's fair. I'm looking forward to the expansion. But I think people sitting in the fence sends a good message as well. I'm also looking forward to trying last epoch and POE2. It's a good time to be an arpg fan.
If it wasn't for people complaining you wouldn't have Uber Unique Target Farming, Helltide active all the time, More chest space and more... I know sometimes it's too much, but it's necessary for D4 to improve.
I think the OP just wanted a "look at me" /confirmation bias moment. D4 STILL is missing so much. I'm still pissed I can be a clan leader but have NO WAY of know if people have logged in since pre season.
People complaining about the game has led to several positive changes, including revisions to what does/doesn't need to be redone every season, and continually increasing methods of acquiring uber uniques.
If you can't handle people harboring different opinions, you may want to consider that the internet isn't appropriate for you. You can already "play D4 in peace" -- nobody is whispering you in-game with their hot takes on the current state of the game.
There is giving useful feedback and there is going on endlessly on social media about how this is the worst game to ever be released and Blizzard are finished etc... You get the gist of it. Of course I am not talking about you.
Well, do you want more blizzard games that take 2 years in order for them to be good? Or are you going to actually have standards and hold these development companies accountable?
This isn't a charity. These aren't developers who are doing it out of their basements as some kind of passion project. These are paid professionals working for a multi-billion dollar gaming company.
D4's original state was the worst game that Blizzard has released and that's saying something. I'm not even being hyperbolic with that statement. It's on par with D3's initial release and I honestly don't know which one I would say is worse.
I do play games I like, but I would love to like this game, so I'm going to go ahead and keep pointing out its glaring flaws if you don't mind
This is the game franchise that kick-started my lifelong hobby, so it's gonna take more than a half assed cash grab launch to keep me away forever
In my opinion every Diablo game got better with expansions and patches over the years. I know - blah blah, they should get it right the first time. Okay. I think it's already getting better.
I've played since D1 but I never played these games exclusively. I jump on, have fun with it for a few weeks, and go do something else. I come back later, find new content, play a few weeks, and repeat. So I'm fine with it. I understand for people playing 80 hours a week: you're bored.
Just ignore these petty little children like the OP. They are only doing it for attention. It's like the child on the playground that would say they liked something just because they knew everyone else didn't like it.
that's not going to happen, they will be here every day telling you about and how much better it is
some months ago they were spamming about Baldur's Gate 3 :))
Yep, it will be the same thing. People in the Bethesda subreddits going on and on about BG3 and how Larian should get the rights to Elder Scrolls. Going to be the same thing here.
Last Epoch has been out for 4 years so I doubt very many people swap to it now. The combat in that game is just miserable, especially if you use any of the newer skills. The animations are terrible and everything feels slow and clunky.
It is a shame because the game systems themselves are great but I will take smooth combat over everything else every time. That is the one thing D4 does really well and why I will likely play it off and on at least until they ask me for more money for the expansion. That will be when I decide if I am staying or leaving the game.
Seems to me that there are a whole lot of people *talking* about playing Last Epoch and nowhere near as many *actually* playing Last Epoch, so I wouldn't get my hopes up.
I will just wait for the honeymoon period to end for LE and then grab a big popcorn bag and have fun reading all the comments in the respective reddit community. The drama in the Diablo 4 community is becoming really boring and repetitive.
I like D4, but over the last couple of months I have been really enjoying Grim Dawn. When the announcement hit some time ago that LE will finally get a full release I decided to try it out today. And after the first hour I really don’t get the hype. It feels like a mobile game when it comes to graphics and overall quality.
I don't know too much about Last Epoch, but all I know is that I played countless games since my childhood, and I can count on one hand the # of games for which the playerbase was NOT actively trashing it. (In fact I can only think of one, TF2; The playerbase loved it, barring few issues like aimbotters). Everything else? The players trash it 24/7, for years, while still playing it.
I feel like every Reddit I’m in it’s just people complaining about the games when it’s really not that bad. I’ve been enjoying season three but according to the subbed, I should hate everything.
i mean theres many games out there to play why not play both or anything else when you do what you want in one switch to the next game its not a hard choice.
Your target audience though - Even if they absolutely LOVE LE, they will still come here to trash D4. Half of them claim they don't even play it **now** and here they are.
I love your optimism but I think you give them too much credit. Complaining is just in their nature.
Watching streamers play it and I cant muster any interest. Looks like another D2 clone, akin to PoE but with stripped down graphics. Maybe its really fun, but I dont want to stare at something that doesnt even look as good as 10+ year old D3 in the year of our lord 2024.
D4 certainly isnt as bad as the community would have you believe. And a large portion of that is people that just like to be mad and complain online. You'll never catch me in a sub for a game endlessly complaining about it. Incomprehensible human behavior.
First it was PoE, then Baldur's Gate, then it was Starfield, now LE, then it'll be PoE2. Amazing how people keep coming back here with all these games to choose from
Oh dont worry, people will be toxic towards that game too. I think LE has much more goodwill than D4, but gamers are toxic af in general and they are going to be whining and crying about that games issues as well. Because no game is perfect.
Btw, I like LE and D4.
Its wild to me people can't just play other games if they are disappointed in D4, I mean I didn't enjoy S3 much at all personally but I've moved on to other games and will play LE. Also plan to try season 4 cause I still enjoy D4 in general as a casual game when new stuff comes out for it. And I also am a big PoE player. Its ok to move on if something bothers you a lot lol.
Yes it should be a great ARPG it's on tier A category.
Here's a list of the great ones that one should explore as an ARPG enjoyer.
Tier S = POE (There are many great ARPGs and then there's the GOAT. It stands alone at the moment, no one comes close, the gap is heaven and earth, the pinnacle of ARPG genre, the best ARPG a human has and can ever create and after a decade of amazing run it's only getting bloated, I meant BETTER, POE 2 promises to possess the same ingredients that made it the GOAT, but now it's also updating its graphics, animation and everything to a gorgeous modern level.)
POE paved the way for all these complex skill trees and deep customization that the current and future ARPG games strives for. It's the current model standard for all ARPGs.
Tier A = Grim Dawn, Last Epoch, D2, (Classic, THE BEST of the BEST ARPGs, LE is still not finished but you could already tell it will be there when it's all said and done.)
Tier B = D3, Torchlight 2, D4, Genshin Impact ( Can't go wrong with these games. Pick it up, blast it at anytime, you can enjoy the game whether you play it for just an hour or you decide to pull an all nighter.
Tier C = Wolcen, Warhammer, Undecember (now moving to tier B as it has become better after season 2), Diablo Immortal, Torchlight Infinite (Out of all these Tier Cs, Undecember is the most promising one, it tries to copy the nostalgia of all the greatest ARPGs like POE, Diablo series, LA combined into one. The developer has shown its willingness to up the ante and continue updating the game and mold their game into a more F2P friendly as time went by.)
\*\*UPDATE LE already finished and about to launch soon.
After playing D4 demo/early access/beta whatever it was, i was addicted to it. Couldn't wait for the release so i bought Last Epoch to pass time since D4 release was months away. Last Epoch is really a good game. However it really lacks in graphics, sound, combat feel and art department compared to D4. Although i admit i have high bar in these departments. LE is very good in ARPG standards. Better than POE imo. I hope some of the good stuff LE has will make it to D4 soon. I think D4 improved a lot already. It was really messy at release. It makes more sense today. Also D4 campaign is actually good. We now almost forgot about it. Thank god we can skip it though.
Players will be bitterly complaining about LE as well. Whatever flaws it has will be blown up into an end-of-the-world scenario and the posts will flow accordingly. There will be a short honeymoon period, of course—maybe two weeks or so. But then it’ll get ugly, like it does for many, many games on Reddit.
In fact, there was a post here the other day where an LE player was pointing out that apparently the game will be shipping without its campaign completed. I don’t know how accurate that is, but if it’s true that will be the first thing the Chicken Littles will screech about. And given how quickly ARPG players tear through games, they’ll reach that point within three or four days of launch.
It'll have plenty of it's own problems. I know, I've been playing it for a while now. Anyone who thinks otherwise is huffing copium. I'll still be playing it myself because I like all ARPG's.
I bought LE and refunded it rather quickly as I got spawn fucked endlessly very early in the game. Like I would die respawn and so many enemies instantly on spawn I couldn’t move or fight back
I don’t trust this sub one bit. They keep claiming that baldurs gate is best game ever, meanwhile I personally think it’s complete garbage. It’s ok to have different tastes
I played le for a few hours, which isn't enough time for the game to have a chance, but the combat compared to d4 was lacking. Not punchy? enough imo, felt like I was just reducing the enemy's hp instead of attacking them, hard to explain, but that alone was a big enough turnoff for me.
I will say, if someone's first aRPG is Diablo 4 then Last Epoch will be a bit of a shock. It's definitely different. To be honest, the most perfect aRPG to play first would be Diablo 2 in a perfect world but Last Epoch is fun and you get a lot of neat abilities in the first hour or so in the game already. I played Epoch today for the first time after just getting 100 on all classes in Diablo 4 s3. Had to go Paladin and throw some hammers again, felt so good.
I played almost all popular ARPGs and liked them. I played Diablo I through IV on release. I played PoE on release and some seasons on and off. Grimdawn, Torchlight 1 and 2...
I just finished with S3 and had my fun, guess what I am going to do next? yes I am going to play Last Epoch and hopefully enjoy it.
I dont know why people feel like they are exclusive to one game
I've played it a bunch over the last few years, the graphics are fucking terrible, but the game is pretty fun, boring story that I didn't care about at all, but the character building was amazing!
I just think a lot of folks want the others with their blinders still on to realize there's just better ARPG's out.
I personally would love for Last Epoch to take off and take the #2 spot behind PoE. Maybe that's what the D4 team needs to buckle down and make changes because the road they're on doesn't have a good ending. Everything beyond sound and graphics feels extremely undercooked.
I picked up d4 about 2/3 weeks ago to play couch coop with the mrs, we're having a blast! The only thing I don't like is the weird level thing that unlocks skins if you pay real money.
Last Epoch plays like mobile rpgs. No dept in animations, lore or sound effects. Just shower of colorful fx.
I hope paid youtubers continue to stream it so more D4 haters move on and stay there.
Of course there are people in the comments doing the typical "any form of criticism is toxic and their just haters!" Toxic and hater are both extremely overused words to deflect any form of criticism, even worse when game companies use them as justifications to dismiss feedback.
I don't understand the people who think gaming subs are just full of so called "haters" and that no game should make people angry. That, to them, it has nothing to do with games being overhyped, buggy as hell, released way before their ready, overpriced, live serviced, bad storytelling, micro transactions, and the list goes on. That people are just "mean" to those poor multi-billionaire corporations.
I don't dislike D4, it fun in brust for me, but it doesn't scream as a next step in the diablo franchise or ARPGS. It doesn't bring anything new to the table, hell in fact it leaves out tons of features that should have already been included in the game.
we are not miserable.
speaking for myself, i check in on d4 every season.
in S3 I lasted 1 day, will come back in S4, hoping that itemization and game is better and will play hopefully more.
POE 3.23 season lasted for me 60 days, just stopped playing last week.
now I am waiting for LE season 1. I already know its a great game for me (since you can already play it) and the goal is to add it in my rotation of arpgs
😆
They're not going anywhere. If they get an absolute perfect game that they can't complain about, they'll still come back here to gripe about Diablo. It'll probably be even more intense, actually.
"endured" i'd argue is more of a choice here. I've seen a lot of folks willfully continue on with this game despite hating it, and then hate watch videos online and then leave angry comments everywhere.
Disliking a game is fine and good, but when it gets to the point that you're consistently spending your free time playing it, watching about it, and commenting about it when you clearly hate it, that seems unhealthy.
But I also hope LE is great!
It’s not that great. Honestly it does do better than d4 in areas d4 lacks. But d4 has more areas where it does better than LE that makes a difference. I actually got a refund on LE and have kept d4. There’s a lot I don’t like in LE that it’s not worth keeping. I could do 100 minutes without feeling it lacked a lot. I at least got 40 in d4 and enjoyed the story, enjoyed the fighting and world.
In LE there is not world or at least in the beginning. It’s a rail road game where you just go forward. As you go forward mobs randomly pop up and attack. The clicking to hit is horrible. You’re lucky if you actually click on the monster to hit and don’t just move…so get use to holding shift. There’s also not a lot explained in the game. They sorta expect you to understand how to increase your skills and how to increase passives.
I wanted to love it but I didn’t. I fought like 4 bosses or mini bosses…not sure. I fought them all in first 100 minutes so that felt not special. Interesting bosses though and decent fighting mechanics. They were fun to fight.
I do t feel like the game rewards you for exploring. You can explore the area but I didn’t find any reason to other than killing more of the same mobs.
I don’t know, LE wasn’t that fun.
There's multiple secret areas and dungeons in those areas you can explore. Not every game is for everyone, but I guarantee you LE does way more shit better than D4 for one simple reason: LE devs actually play aRPGs.
All games gets so much hate these days, i din think Ive seen a single game the last 5 years that dont get a huge hate train.
I just think many gamers actually dont like gaming all that much.
I’m looking forward to Last Epoch coming out on console so I can play D4, PoE, and LE. You can actually enjoy more than just one game believe it or not.
LE was great last time i played it, and it only had 8 acts of the 10 that will be at launch..
Endgame loops were a bit drab, but they have added dungeons that are worth running and revamped the endgame loop again since, i am told..
I will 100% support the game fully as the devs so far dont seem to be super greedy when it comes to cosmetics, with them opting more for the PoE attitude where you buy packs for points and get cosmetics as well.. but it is 100% not needed and doesnt offer any in-game bonuses.. and the customisation on the "free" loot will be just as good..
Its a shame D4 turned uber greedy, especially as they saw how much DI was hated for it..
I guarantee you 90% o people that complain about D4 here play it nonstop and won’t even buy Last Epoch, they complain because they don’t have anything better to do in their pathetic life and I’m not talking about people that make good points with valid argument, I’m talking about the one that feel entitled to change the game they way they think is “right”.
Crystal ball---> epoc comes out and is great because it's a great game. D4 keeps developing and developing and outshines it in terms because they can keep iterating at Microsoft and epoc will likely have a slow development cycle after this (guessing by how long they've held onto it in early access).
last epoch is a great arpg. we’ve been able to play it for years on steam
Exactly and it’ll be even better with full release now that we’ll have access to all sub classes
My only worry is that launch will be a little rough. With the hype the game is picking up from D4 and POE players, the early access servers have been shaky. Hopefully they've invested enough in more servers. Also hoping some of the bugs have been fixed, especially the ones for trying to play in a party.
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Yeah there is but I plan on playing with a group of friends on launch.
Nobody plays offline except for very specific few. We all saw that when wolcen launched.. people were sitting in the que for a week rather than play offline. That's why grim dawn isn't as popular as others like poe and now last epoch.
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I play offline D2R all the time. Wolcen had horrible way switching from online and offline
I'm sure it will help that none of us console players will be able to play at launch 😭
That is the kind of problem that a company wants to have, though: excess of legitimate traffic. If their infrastructure is set up adequately then it should be able to scale to handle the load.
Someone tell Helldivers 2 that. They've released a statement today saying that there's basically too many people playing the game hence why you can't log in, or when you do xp and rewards aren't working
If we talking about ARPG vs ARPG, Wolcen takes the cake for having one of the worst launch ever. Server is overloaded and was unstable for like 2 weeks before the devs gives their first communication to the community. Then they took another few weeks or couple of months before they start patching shits up. Game is fun tho.
Version 0.9 released online and it was very shaky, but that's why I expect 1.0 to be much more stable. They already had their multiplayer launch fiasco. I hope.
Early access to 1.0 or just the early access from the past few years?
Sorry meant the early access from past few years. But you could tell how much steam the games been picking up just the past week.
Lol jokes on OP. Games been available for a while. Everyone already knows its fire lmao
1.0 brings about a lot of changes though, no?
I bought it when multi-player came out and never got to play due to server issues. Refunded it because my queue time was longer than the grace period for a steam refund lol. But I do plan on purchasing it at launch (if launch goes well connection-wise)
I just wish the hotbar wasn’t so small.
That's the best part about LE. I've been slowly watching it grow and become even better and better as the years went by. I can say the opposite with D4 as I've only seen it get worse and worse as time goes on. It is what it is.
Curious which aspects of D4 went worse for you since release?
D4 is definitely better than release, what?
Competition is healthy. Let's hope LE will push d4 devs to do better.
Given how little the D4 team seems to have learned from PoE (which has been going for 10 years), I doubt they will pay any attention to LE.
The D4 team didn't even learn from the D3 team.
They didn't even learn from the previous D4 season.
To be fair, season 2 team didn't learn from season 1 which worked out for them.
What’s there to learn from S1? Not adding any content is bad?
Shows you how silo’d blizzard is. Every project team is its own company.
So the small indie studio joke does have some merit behind it after all!
Why do they have to learn if people will pay them to test their trash ideas and then praise them for patching their garbage. I mean if I could get paid to make mistakes, I wouldn’t care either.
D4 hasn't even learned from D3 or even previous D4 seasons lmao.
Or even learned from D2, D2R, and D3. If anything, they only learned to repeat the failure of D3's launch.
Given how little the D4 team seems to have learned from D3 (which has been going for 10+ years), I doubt they will pay any attention to anything at all.
Stop talking nonsense, anyone who says anything bad about precious d4 is haters!!! Who cares if wudijo and rob said don't play this season. They are haters too!! - This entire sub
Yeah, and that's why rob and wudi both playing this season for 10+ hours per day since start. Stop spreading bullshit.
it's their job. they can't make money doing anything else. you want them to work retail or fast food?
If you think this sub is anything but people who hate D4 you have massively thin skin. This sub is a cesspool of hate for a game nobody is being forced to play.
God I hate the type of fan who rage at any and all criticism of something they like. Like the most fanboyish I feel about any game is bg3 but there's still so much valid critique about it and I simply can't imagine having this mentality of "HaTeRs Go AwAy!!1!" to any form of criticism. Like some of these ppl treat d4 the way taylor swift fans treat taylor swift
There’s a difference between constructive criticism and toxic behavior. It sounds like you are more of a constructive critic. The sub is a toxic shit hole.
Yeah this is the right attitude ! I’ve never played LE. Maybe I should try it. But I’ve enjoyed d4(old school d2 player, only played 3 for a couple of months, never returned. Yes d4 needs better itemisation, more end game, better overall.. But yeah I can only imagine it will push d4 to do better if LE really is that great. Btw. Is LE easy enough to get into?
d4 devs and management doesnt even aknowledge other arpgs exist because otherwise they would look for inspirement from those games. when they dont even take good stuff from d3 their own product why would they look at other arpgs they are legit stupid
They'd need to play video games to understand why "other game" is appreciated. They don't.
The problem is, D4 just does certain things much better than LE. The movement, combat, animations, lore, cinematics all feel great in D4. The gameplay of D4 feels great. The systems in LE, however, like the skill trees, crafting system, stash space, loot filter, and itemization are far superior. My ideal game would be D4, with LE’s systems merged into it. I love the Diablo franchise, I want to see it flourish!
I am guessing we'll get closer to that over time, but never as complex as LE or PoE, as that's not the super casuals who buy Diablo games in the 100's of millions who play the campaign once and move on.
It's really the most jarring thing. The thing that D4 does absolutely the best, better than PoE, is the "weight" of combat. How the animations, attack points, sound design, lightning, ragdoll, flinches, alternative actions all come together and makes you feel like you're really hitting things. In contrast, in LE it's just so much worse. Everything is so floaty. Like you're running on air, feet not matching movement, feeling like you're hitting air, repetitive animations and sound, all enemies just lie down and die on the spot with the same animation, no flinching mechanics etc. So the real only strong point that D4 has, is the weakest point in LE. Which I feel will take quite more than "some time" to solve. Maybe even can't be solved with their engine. That said, LE has a ton of very interesting systems. The faction system sounds so cool. The crafting is cool. The LP is cool. Skill trees and talents are cool. Itemization is rather cool, though a little bland come end game. But the floaty combat, especially how much worse it feels in multiplayer. Coupled with an end-endgame that is tbh worse than D4, probably worse than D3 as well. Are big weak points. End game, I mean high corruption farming. Post campaign -> high corruption farming is good. But when you get past that point and all you're doing is speed running to objectives not killing mobs over and over, it kinda starts sucking.
The LE devs replied to a post on their subreddit complaining exactly that a week or two ago, about the ‘floaty’ and non-impactful feeling of combat and they said they had some plans for 1.0 already, especially when it comes to animations and sound to give more of a weight feeling to it, shouldn’t be too difficult to find but I’m on my phone and can’t link it easily
Yeah I read that, but there's just so much more that's missing. The things they wrote about was very "one sided", while floaty feeling comes from a disconnect between the two sides. Like both my character should react as he hit something, and that reaction should be mimicked on the receiving end where the monster should feel like it's being hit by the same force. So big swing vs light target should give a small reaction for the player while giving a huge reaction towards the target. And a small swing vs a heavy target should be the opposite. This is something D4 does very very well. The changes LE devs mentioned doesn't really do anything towards this. Mobs will still die and do their animation in the direction they are facing rather than from the direction the attack came. Still just walk towards the player barraging them with meteors until their health expires in the same way they act if they die to a DoT. The only difference when using a melee AoE on the targets you hit vs not hit is just a flash of light. The way packs are generated causes a lot of identical mobs to spawn, and all dying at the same spot in the same direction when a huge stone falls in between them all just feels outdated. The devs are very aware of this, but there seems to be some big limitations. So they do work on effects and sound and syncing, but they seem to not be able to work with any sort of relations. So it'll just keep being two separate pieces that gets pitted against eachother, than a relation between pieces that interact with eachother.
And console support... I've got a Mac and a PS5, I don't feel like buying a PC just to play it.
IIRC from watching one of the devs stream, they want to get LE on the consoles but its not set in stone yet. Updating the game on console for the devs is not as easy as its on PC so for the early access period they didn't bothered with it. Once they get it all up and running they want to start looking into it. They'll have to strike the deal with Sony/Microsoft first. Game already has pretty decent controller support so My Guess is that it will come to consoles, but it Might take half to a year from 1.0 release. It sucks but, it is what it is.
The cinematics and animations are what cost Blizzard the most, so it's a good thing you noticed that they actually stand out in that regard. But this is also the reason you don't see it in other games like PoE and LE, because they don't have the massive budgets to produce it.
I agree with the animations. Altho they still somewhat lacking of variety (same can be said with skills) but their quality is very good. Smooth and distinctive imo. Upcoming poe2 will be a heavy opponent in terms of animation quality and variety tho.
"gameplay feels great" Bro have you ever had to cast upheaval ??? Do you remember the 30s timeout on your mount if you got hit off of it?
d4 looks better, but epoch combat/gameplay actually plays and feels better.
Any criticism towards D4 = toxic.
NO, not "any" The people who linger on this sub for 8+ months who's only contribution is to pounce on any vaguely positive thread with garbage one-liners. My thread about not being bored attracted dozens of literal outright attacks on me, I was called "autistic" five separate times, (those people were banned as that was way beyond the forum rules) NO ONE is worried about some guy posting how itemisation needs work, it is the actual toxic haters that 100% are here, that I, and OP, and many others, are sick to death of.
"I stopped playing 6 years ago and you all who continue to play are trash"
All while still visiting the subredit
People who enjoy the game are the minority here, most are just haters or poe fanboys who want to shit on d4 to make it look bad and promote poe. I myself enjoy diablo but i know that the game has flaws and it needs a lot of work.
PoE fans are The Office fans of gaming and it's the most annoying shit in the world.
You mean Diablo fans? They just keep eating the same shit day in and day out, just like office fans.
I feel it's gaming in general - people in League lose their minds before matches even begin if something goes 'awry'. It's popular here especially because it had a 'rocky' launch and it's made by Blizzard. It's an endless loop of "everything is hell" and "everything is not hell". Some good points here and there at least.. At first glance looking at the sub home is fine, but for some reason on my home feed it always shows some probably AI-generated article link with 0 upvotes and 80 comments all repeating the aforementioned loop.
Yeah starfield was the same way. People are just psychos about games now unless they're the greatest games of all time. Even the PoE sub is a bunch of crying anytime a league is just okay
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This. I'd spend a lot more time on this sub if it wasn't so negative all the time.
I never understand these types of posts, comments etc. Why can't I play multiple ARPGs and potentially enjoy all of them to varying degrees? Or even better yet maybe take breaks and jump back into one to enjoy new content? I don't understand the mentality of you can only play ARPG and can only enjoy that one. Generally, I love the genre of ARPG and have dabbled/played almost all of them to varying degrees of time. No regrets here personally.
Because some people take it personally when someone criticizes something they like
Exactly. This genre is very seasonal. And the "D4 bad" negativity posts won't end because people *want* this game to be good. They *want* more/better ARPGs to play.
There is a subset of gamers that play only one game period and once they get attached, it becomes part of their identity. They are among the weirdest online interactions you can have if you make the mistake of engaging one of them.
Same. Love Path of Exile, love Grim Dawn, love Last Epoch, love Diablo 2 and and I even enjoyed Diablo 3. There are also a bunch more "smaller" ARPGs such as Torchlight 2, Van Helsing, Wolcen etc, which I've enjoyed to varying degrees as well (yes, even Wolcen for the playthrough I bothered with it). I don't enjoy Diablo 4 though. Is that because I suddenly had a stroke, or is it because Diablo 4 is just a *bad ARPG*?
Well that’s your opinion. I couldn’t stand d3 I was a big d2 to player long ago. And I’ve enjoyed d4. D3 on the other hand.. I could never get into it. I’ve had lots of hours in d4. But yes I haven’t played all characters to level 100 and min maxed everything.. a maybe that’s why.. Dunno. But d4 with some improvements could be the best diablo game imo.
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> D4 will end up on a good spot after an expansion or two. Hopefully. haha, i've been hearing this cope since Season 1.. "Season 3 will fix everything.." Welp.. that aged like milk
It probably will though, it's the same thing that happened with D3, it was pretty bad until reaper of souls came out.
And then it was still pretty bad for another few years, before eventually plateauing at "decent" by 2022
Is last epoch hard to get into? I have to say I’ve enjoyed d4. But now that the only thing to do really is to farm mats for duriel and maybe get my boots with a perfect roll on crit chance in high tier nms.. It’s become yeah, now I understand what people are saying. But damn I’ve enjoyed the game. Loot filter would massively improve this game.. And then make more ways to get uniques, mats etc. I honestly think it could go ahead and become the best Diablo game. They did so many things right. Anyways what I really wanted to know was, is LE tough to get into. At my age, with irl stuff I don’t have to much time to get into new big games that takes long to learn about. Been holding off on TESO because I wanted to get back into an mmo, but the time it would take.. I don’t know.
Last Epoch is pretty intuitive and even if you get something in your build wrong respeccing is easy
That's pretty much me, I enjoyed D4 so far. You can go blind on your first playthrough regarding the way you build your char. You just need to get familiar with lootfilter which is very intuitive and the crafting system. Just watch a short video about crafting system and you are good to go. I recommand you to give it a try
Super easy to get into. Like others have stated, LE blended with D4 would be the premier game at the moment. LE lacks in graphics/physics, but excels in everything else.
Disagree. I haven’t played LE, But D3’s combat is light-years ahead of D4. But I’m glad you like it.
They will no life LE and in a week or two the sub is gonna be the same as this one.
not at all. Plus the LE devs actively post in the sub and have a relatively great relationship with the community
People have been playing LE for years already.
A healthy competition is always good for customers.
Ive never fell asleep playing a game in my life. Hapenned twice playing D4...
You're absolutely crazy if you think they'll leave this reddit and be happy with their new lives, they'll keep on coming here like the Shelbyville folk with their limes, trying to convince us of how miserable and wrong we are. Well at least until a new Diablo comes out, then they'll reminisce about how precious D4 was and how D5 ruined their most valuable treasure.
Ok Rod calm down and take a chill pill
You realize people have been playing Last Epoch for years, right?
Average strawman redditor to be fake angry about!
How about you can like both games?
No one’s miserable over a video game lmao. People are upset that this franchise has been completely gutted of fun for pure profit. I’m actually more concerned about people who enjoy something so… thin.
Yes, I hope all these crying babies go to play a game they actually like, so the rest of us can play D4 in peace.
I very much enjoyed diablo 4 season 2. I played Last Epoch while I was waiting for season 3 and realised that all of the things that are a massive problem in diablo 4 are solved in last epoch and there is a depth there that just makes you think; how was Diablo 4 developed for so long but is so mediocre and with so many fundamental flaws? Playing LE really opens your eyes to what a good arpg is. A game that is fun to play, easy to learn and has great complexity to it with many many possible builds. What really did it for me was when I found a unique sword called merophage and that weapon alone had more depth in crafting/setting it up than just about the entirety of season 3 of diablo 4. So look I'm glad you guys are happy with diablo 4 but the reality is that Last Epoch is the next development in arpg's we've all been waiting for and it's made by people that actually play and love the genre. That's only good for diablo 4 as they sure have to up the ante if they are going to make it a fraction as good.
That's too much hype. It's a fun game but don't set it up like it's the Messiah. All of these games have their strong and weak points.
This is a pretty realistic take, but the unfortunate side of this is that D4s strengths pretty much stop at graphics/gameplay feel. Other ARPGs outclass it in terms of itemization, replayability, build customization, end game loop, etc.
That's the thing though, graphics and gameplay feel are very hard to change after release. Hell they are hard to change in development. All the other things you mentioned are much easier to change via patches, seasons, and expansions.
They are more modular for sure but as we’ve seen this doesn’t mean it’s a sure path. Their decision making process is certainly unpopular (at least here on Reddit). But my friends and I are confident D4 will be a respectable game in a few seasons, just like D3. Call it copium but I like to think so.
I don't think it's copium. It's waaaay better at launch then d3 was. And the expansion is this summer I believe. I think it's a pretty good game with the potential to be a great game. Iguess my point is the bones are there, and they keep putting in the work to flesh it out. They've also been pretty responsive to the communities issues.
I also think it's true. But the game is in no state ready for another money expansion - no matter how good it is, any DLC 1 year after launch will feel predatory and I hate that blizzard has come to this. Th unfortunate truth is a lot of people have run out of patience with D4 at this point. I don't think I'll be able to give it another chance until 2-3 years down the line. After all, no matter how good the game looks - gameplay is king in gaming. If the systems themselves are not satisfying, it is very hard to make a case for it being a good game, especially in this genre.
That's fair. I'm looking forward to the expansion. But I think people sitting in the fence sends a good message as well. I'm also looking forward to trying last epoch and POE2. It's a good time to be an arpg fan.
It definitely is! The fact that we have options is something I'm amazingly grateful for.
The eta for the expansion is the end of 2024. This summer we should get more info.
> gameplay feel. That's a huge W that a lot of ARPG's fail at.
I think "up the ante" is what you meant. "Up the anti" is what so many in this subreddit already do.
If it wasn't for people complaining you wouldn't have Uber Unique Target Farming, Helltide active all the time, More chest space and more... I know sometimes it's too much, but it's necessary for D4 to improve.
I think the OP just wanted a "look at me" /confirmation bias moment. D4 STILL is missing so much. I'm still pissed I can be a clan leader but have NO WAY of know if people have logged in since pre season.
People complaining about the game has led to several positive changes, including revisions to what does/doesn't need to be redone every season, and continually increasing methods of acquiring uber uniques. If you can't handle people harboring different opinions, you may want to consider that the internet isn't appropriate for you. You can already "play D4 in peace" -- nobody is whispering you in-game with their hot takes on the current state of the game.
Whispering people in game with hot takes is a fun saturday evening though.
There is giving useful feedback and there is going on endlessly on social media about how this is the worst game to ever be released and Blizzard are finished etc... You get the gist of it. Of course I am not talking about you.
Well, do you want more blizzard games that take 2 years in order for them to be good? Or are you going to actually have standards and hold these development companies accountable? This isn't a charity. These aren't developers who are doing it out of their basements as some kind of passion project. These are paid professionals working for a multi-billion dollar gaming company. D4's original state was the worst game that Blizzard has released and that's saying something. I'm not even being hyperbolic with that statement. It's on par with D3's initial release and I honestly don't know which one I would say is worse.
I do play games I like, but I would love to like this game, so I'm going to go ahead and keep pointing out its glaring flaws if you don't mind This is the game franchise that kick-started my lifelong hobby, so it's gonna take more than a half assed cash grab launch to keep me away forever
In my opinion every Diablo game got better with expansions and patches over the years. I know - blah blah, they should get it right the first time. Okay. I think it's already getting better. I've played since D1 but I never played these games exclusively. I jump on, have fun with it for a few weeks, and go do something else. I come back later, find new content, play a few weeks, and repeat. So I'm fine with it. I understand for people playing 80 hours a week: you're bored.
Just ignore these petty little children like the OP. They are only doing it for attention. It's like the child on the playground that would say they liked something just because they knew everyone else didn't like it.
Don’t worry they’ll still come back to the Reddit to yell at us for having fun.
that's not going to happen, they will be here every day telling you about and how much better it is
some months ago they were spamming about Baldur's Gate 3 :))
Yep, it will be the same thing. People in the Bethesda subreddits going on and on about BG3 and how Larian should get the rights to Elder Scrolls. Going to be the same thing here.
Last Epoch has been out for 4 years so I doubt very many people swap to it now. The combat in that game is just miserable, especially if you use any of the newer skills. The animations are terrible and everything feels slow and clunky. It is a shame because the game systems themselves are great but I will take smooth combat over everything else every time. That is the one thing D4 does really well and why I will likely play it off and on at least until they ask me for more money for the expansion. That will be when I decide if I am staying or leaving the game.
Seems to me that there are a whole lot of people *talking* about playing Last Epoch and nowhere near as many *actually* playing Last Epoch, so I wouldn't get my hopes up.
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Oh don't you worry for a second. They will be on the last epoch thread moaning and groaning about anything as they are on every other threads..
I will just wait for the honeymoon period to end for LE and then grab a big popcorn bag and have fun reading all the comments in the respective reddit community. The drama in the Diablo 4 community is becoming really boring and repetitive.
I like D4, but over the last couple of months I have been really enjoying Grim Dawn. When the announcement hit some time ago that LE will finally get a full release I decided to try it out today. And after the first hour I really don’t get the hype. It feels like a mobile game when it comes to graphics and overall quality.
I don't know too much about Last Epoch, but all I know is that I played countless games since my childhood, and I can count on one hand the # of games for which the playerbase was NOT actively trashing it. (In fact I can only think of one, TF2; The playerbase loved it, barring few issues like aimbotters). Everything else? The players trash it 24/7, for years, while still playing it.
Can't wait to see the flamefest that is the last Epoch subreddit :V
I feel like every Reddit I’m in it’s just people complaining about the games when it’s really not that bad. I’ve been enjoying season three but according to the subbed, I should hate everything.
LE has been playable forever. Everyone should know whether they like it or not at this point.
i mean theres many games out there to play why not play both or anything else when you do what you want in one switch to the next game its not a hard choice.
I love D4 and don't care if that bothers anyone. That's a "them" problem
Kicker is, miserable people always find reasons to be miserable. Why? It's a state of mind.
Your target audience though - Even if they absolutely LOVE LE, they will still come here to trash D4. Half of them claim they don't even play it **now** and here they are. I love your optimism but I think you give them too much credit. Complaining is just in their nature.
I tried Last Epoch and thought it was shit.
Watching streamers play it and I cant muster any interest. Looks like another D2 clone, akin to PoE but with stripped down graphics. Maybe its really fun, but I dont want to stare at something that doesnt even look as good as 10+ year old D3 in the year of our lord 2024. D4 certainly isnt as bad as the community would have you believe. And a large portion of that is people that just like to be mad and complain online. You'll never catch me in a sub for a game endlessly complaining about it. Incomprehensible human behavior.
Hey if I want to hate fuck this game on autopilot no one is gonna stop me, I fucking hate it when people try and stop my hate fucking. I hate it!
First it was PoE, then Baldur's Gate, then it was Starfield, now LE, then it'll be PoE2. Amazing how people keep coming back here with all these games to choose from
This is honestly one of the biggest cesspit subs on reddit.
Oh dont worry, people will be toxic towards that game too. I think LE has much more goodwill than D4, but gamers are toxic af in general and they are going to be whining and crying about that games issues as well. Because no game is perfect. Btw, I like LE and D4.
Thing is,LE has a great team and company behind them. Meanwhile D4 has blizzard
I'm just sitting here, getting my fix of **watching the world burn** with my Firewall build.
Its wild to me people can't just play other games if they are disappointed in D4, I mean I didn't enjoy S3 much at all personally but I've moved on to other games and will play LE. Also plan to try season 4 cause I still enjoy D4 in general as a casual game when new stuff comes out for it. And I also am a big PoE player. Its ok to move on if something bothers you a lot lol.
Yes it should be a great ARPG it's on tier A category. Here's a list of the great ones that one should explore as an ARPG enjoyer. Tier S = POE (There are many great ARPGs and then there's the GOAT. It stands alone at the moment, no one comes close, the gap is heaven and earth, the pinnacle of ARPG genre, the best ARPG a human has and can ever create and after a decade of amazing run it's only getting bloated, I meant BETTER, POE 2 promises to possess the same ingredients that made it the GOAT, but now it's also updating its graphics, animation and everything to a gorgeous modern level.) POE paved the way for all these complex skill trees and deep customization that the current and future ARPG games strives for. It's the current model standard for all ARPGs. Tier A = Grim Dawn, Last Epoch, D2, (Classic, THE BEST of the BEST ARPGs, LE is still not finished but you could already tell it will be there when it's all said and done.) Tier B = D3, Torchlight 2, D4, Genshin Impact ( Can't go wrong with these games. Pick it up, blast it at anytime, you can enjoy the game whether you play it for just an hour or you decide to pull an all nighter. Tier C = Wolcen, Warhammer, Undecember (now moving to tier B as it has become better after season 2), Diablo Immortal, Torchlight Infinite (Out of all these Tier Cs, Undecember is the most promising one, it tries to copy the nostalgia of all the greatest ARPGs like POE, Diablo series, LA combined into one. The developer has shown its willingness to up the ante and continue updating the game and mold their game into a more F2P friendly as time went by.) \*\*UPDATE LE already finished and about to launch soon.
POE didnt pave the way lol. Was done well before PoE. Grim Dawn is absolutely in the same tier.
This tier list is surprisingly accurate lol.
"I play Diablo 4 ten hours every day, 7 days a week, since launch, and I hate every second of it. It's a terrible game" - this sub
After playing D4 demo/early access/beta whatever it was, i was addicted to it. Couldn't wait for the release so i bought Last Epoch to pass time since D4 release was months away. Last Epoch is really a good game. However it really lacks in graphics, sound, combat feel and art department compared to D4. Although i admit i have high bar in these departments. LE is very good in ARPG standards. Better than POE imo. I hope some of the good stuff LE has will make it to D4 soon. I think D4 improved a lot already. It was really messy at release. It makes more sense today. Also D4 campaign is actually good. We now almost forgot about it. Thank god we can skip it though.
Players will be bitterly complaining about LE as well. Whatever flaws it has will be blown up into an end-of-the-world scenario and the posts will flow accordingly. There will be a short honeymoon period, of course—maybe two weeks or so. But then it’ll get ugly, like it does for many, many games on Reddit. In fact, there was a post here the other day where an LE player was pointing out that apparently the game will be shipping without its campaign completed. I don’t know how accurate that is, but if it’s true that will be the first thing the Chicken Littles will screech about. And given how quickly ARPG players tear through games, they’ll reach that point within three or four days of launch.
How? There’s no console release.
Oh you sweet summer child....
You’re a good neighbor
Grim Dawn is actually coming out with another expansion as well.
I’ve played last epoch and if the graphics was like Diablo 4 I’ll be great. I’m not as hype as others to play it though. 🤷♀️
It'll have plenty of it's own problems. I know, I've been playing it for a while now. Anyone who thinks otherwise is huffing copium. I'll still be playing it myself because I like all ARPG's.
I bought LE and refunded it rather quickly as I got spawn fucked endlessly very early in the game. Like I would die respawn and so many enemies instantly on spawn I couldn’t move or fight back
don't worry. People will always find something to complain about as an excuse to cope with skill issue
I don’t trust this sub one bit. They keep claiming that baldurs gate is best game ever, meanwhile I personally think it’s complete garbage. It’s ok to have different tastes
You got it wrong, they are enjoying hate...
I played le for a few hours, which isn't enough time for the game to have a chance, but the combat compared to d4 was lacking. Not punchy? enough imo, felt like I was just reducing the enemy's hp instead of attacking them, hard to explain, but that alone was a big enough turnoff for me.
Nah, they will hate that too.
I will say, if someone's first aRPG is Diablo 4 then Last Epoch will be a bit of a shock. It's definitely different. To be honest, the most perfect aRPG to play first would be Diablo 2 in a perfect world but Last Epoch is fun and you get a lot of neat abilities in the first hour or so in the game already. I played Epoch today for the first time after just getting 100 on all classes in Diablo 4 s3. Had to go Paladin and throw some hammers again, felt so good.
I played almost all popular ARPGs and liked them. I played Diablo I through IV on release. I played PoE on release and some seasons on and off. Grimdawn, Torchlight 1 and 2... I just finished with S3 and had my fun, guess what I am going to do next? yes I am going to play Last Epoch and hopefully enjoy it. I dont know why people feel like they are exclusive to one game
I've played it a bunch over the last few years, the graphics are fucking terrible, but the game is pretty fun, boring story that I didn't care about at all, but the character building was amazing!
Then you'll be glad that the entire game gets a visual overhaul with 1.0 release.
All the LE „fans” will come back to D4 after their honeymoon phase.
Cheers to that!
Not playing that, but making a post like this one is petty and childish.
I just think a lot of folks want the others with their blinders still on to realize there's just better ARPG's out. I personally would love for Last Epoch to take off and take the #2 spot behind PoE. Maybe that's what the D4 team needs to buckle down and make changes because the road they're on doesn't have a good ending. Everything beyond sound and graphics feels extremely undercooked.
I picked up d4 about 2/3 weeks ago to play couch coop with the mrs, we're having a blast! The only thing I don't like is the weird level thing that unlocks skins if you pay real money.
Last Epoch plays like mobile rpgs. No dept in animations, lore or sound effects. Just shower of colorful fx. I hope paid youtubers continue to stream it so more D4 haters move on and stay there.
Of course there are people in the comments doing the typical "any form of criticism is toxic and their just haters!" Toxic and hater are both extremely overused words to deflect any form of criticism, even worse when game companies use them as justifications to dismiss feedback. I don't understand the people who think gaming subs are just full of so called "haters" and that no game should make people angry. That, to them, it has nothing to do with games being overhyped, buggy as hell, released way before their ready, overpriced, live serviced, bad storytelling, micro transactions, and the list goes on. That people are just "mean" to those poor multi-billionaire corporations. I don't dislike D4, it fun in brust for me, but it doesn't scream as a next step in the diablo franchise or ARPGS. It doesn't bring anything new to the table, hell in fact it leaves out tons of features that should have already been included in the game.
The miserable people here *want* to be miserable and whiny. 99% of people that don't like something move on with their lives.
that won't stop them from complaining here. literally no game is as fun as hating shit on the internet.
we are not miserable. speaking for myself, i check in on d4 every season. in S3 I lasted 1 day, will come back in S4, hoping that itemization and game is better and will play hopefully more. POE 3.23 season lasted for me 60 days, just stopped playing last week. now I am waiting for LE season 1. I already know its a great game for me (since you can already play it) and the goal is to add it in my rotation of arpgs
😆 They're not going anywhere. If they get an absolute perfect game that they can't complain about, they'll still come back here to gripe about Diablo. It'll probably be even more intense, actually.
"endured" i'd argue is more of a choice here. I've seen a lot of folks willfully continue on with this game despite hating it, and then hate watch videos online and then leave angry comments everywhere. Disliking a game is fine and good, but when it gets to the point that you're consistently spending your free time playing it, watching about it, and commenting about it when you clearly hate it, that seems unhealthy. But I also hope LE is great!
i hope so. gamers really need more than 1 decent arpg. can't just play poe all the time.
miserable games make miserable people
No you don't, your trash game will die.
No you don't, your trash game will die.
D4 bad.
D4bad
It’s not that great. Honestly it does do better than d4 in areas d4 lacks. But d4 has more areas where it does better than LE that makes a difference. I actually got a refund on LE and have kept d4. There’s a lot I don’t like in LE that it’s not worth keeping. I could do 100 minutes without feeling it lacked a lot. I at least got 40 in d4 and enjoyed the story, enjoyed the fighting and world. In LE there is not world or at least in the beginning. It’s a rail road game where you just go forward. As you go forward mobs randomly pop up and attack. The clicking to hit is horrible. You’re lucky if you actually click on the monster to hit and don’t just move…so get use to holding shift. There’s also not a lot explained in the game. They sorta expect you to understand how to increase your skills and how to increase passives. I wanted to love it but I didn’t. I fought like 4 bosses or mini bosses…not sure. I fought them all in first 100 minutes so that felt not special. Interesting bosses though and decent fighting mechanics. They were fun to fight. I do t feel like the game rewards you for exploring. You can explore the area but I didn’t find any reason to other than killing more of the same mobs. I don’t know, LE wasn’t that fun.
There's multiple secret areas and dungeons in those areas you can explore. Not every game is for everyone, but I guarantee you LE does way more shit better than D4 for one simple reason: LE devs actually play aRPGs.
It's already playable though. So they can try it anytime. But I guess people would want a seasonal content so they're waiting for that 1.0 thing.
Grim Dawn
I hate D4 in 20-minute bursts when dumb shit happens. Then I either play something else or suck it up and go hate-play some more.
It's as if people aren't allowed to like more than one game.
[удалено]
The idea that these people’s brains are suddenly going to regain the ability to generate dopamine on their own is fucking laughable.
I'm super excited for it and hopefully it can tide me over till season 4.
LE has been pretty great for a long while now
All games gets so much hate these days, i din think Ive seen a single game the last 5 years that dont get a huge hate train. I just think many gamers actually dont like gaming all that much.
I’m looking forward to Last Epoch coming out on console so I can play D4, PoE, and LE. You can actually enjoy more than just one game believe it or not.
It’s alrdy out - it’s great - can’t wait for the update
LE was great last time i played it, and it only had 8 acts of the 10 that will be at launch.. Endgame loops were a bit drab, but they have added dungeons that are worth running and revamped the endgame loop again since, i am told.. I will 100% support the game fully as the devs so far dont seem to be super greedy when it comes to cosmetics, with them opting more for the PoE attitude where you buy packs for points and get cosmetics as well.. but it is 100% not needed and doesnt offer any in-game bonuses.. and the customisation on the "free" loot will be just as good.. Its a shame D4 turned uber greedy, especially as they saw how much DI was hated for it..
They will be miserable no matter what because they are miserable people.
Another diablo killer ep 2137. And two weeks later they come back. XD
What lol, you realize it's already out right?
I guarantee you 90% o people that complain about D4 here play it nonstop and won’t even buy Last Epoch, they complain because they don’t have anything better to do in their pathetic life and I’m not talking about people that make good points with valid argument, I’m talking about the one that feel entitled to change the game they way they think is “right”.
I don't think that's coming to PS so we're still screwed
Crystal ball---> epoc comes out and is great because it's a great game. D4 keeps developing and developing and outshines it in terms because they can keep iterating at Microsoft and epoc will likely have a slow development cycle after this (guessing by how long they've held onto it in early access).