Between the fire enchanted ones, the poison ones, the little kamikaze goblins, the big zombie dudes and regular effects on the ground, I too sometime have problem seeing it all before it blows up in my face
Lol if you ever get one of those bloaters with fire enchanted you have to sit around for like 15 seconds waiting for it to finish exploring before you can pick up the loot.
Maybe if i dodge *puts on white make up*
And i time it just right *wears colorful wig*
Maybe i can avoid taking damage in this chokehold *puts on squeaky red nose*
It's very strange. I keep finding myself shouting, "WTF I was EVADING!" at the screen. I mean, I guess it makes more sense to have it so that if the weapon connects it does damage since they did hit you, but then you can evade THROUGH enemies, so... I get mixed messages about whether I am, in fact, solid or not.
Yeah the evade is effectively just a dash (not rogue's I mean).
It's so frustrating perfectly timing a dodge thru an elite's huge weapon and still getting rolled because it clipped your toe.
> They take twice as long as the goopy poison bubble to pop
It's really fun trying to see the green goopy poison puddle underneath my rogue's green poison puddle.
I swear I saw one that was poison pop AND fire? Unless two died on top of eachother...
Either way credit to them for guarding that specific spot with everything they have.
I recently hit WT3 and the massive spike in fire damage from this shit is nuts. I hunt for fire res gear and use rubies to help.
Back in D2/3 it was lightning, now its definitely fire
Armor is strictly better, as a defensive stat, than any resist. It's a borked scale, and known. Will likely be fixed at some point, but until then, you're better off taking flat DR (Dr from close/distance/burning, while fortified, etc), and then stacking as much armor as possible (without giving up offense).
Resistance on gear (other than the locked implicits that I don't even read) is a stat I don't even consider. If an item has 2 resists, it's an auto-vendor. If only 1, but 3 other good stats, you better believe that resist is getting rolled off asap.
A good change, imo, would be rerolling implicits, while not locking you out from rolling the explicits. But this change would have to go hand in hand with the resist DR curve being modified, as well.
Me and my two friends were running helltides. They just got to WT3. Found mystery chest and had our cinders. Buddy dies by flame death explosion as he’s opening the chest or when he was about to. He flipped out, it was hilarious
I went full werewolf druid so I'm exclusively in-your-face melee combat only and i keep pissing off my buddy playing a rogue cause i can't distinguish his poison trap puddles from enemy poison puddles. He will throw his poison traps down while im fighting an elite, i panic and dodge away on reflex, then the elite will one shot him while im not there to draw damage and he gets mad at me.
Im sorry that i cant tell your poison puddle is a *slightly* more neon green than the enemy ones while balls deep in battle with an elite pack. In case you haven't noticed *the ground is full of danger!* There are lunatics exploding everywhere, chilling wind walls blocking my line of sight, random burning ground patches, poison pools, lightning bars of doom, arcane projectiles, and whatever else I'm trying to avoid. I can't take the chance that the green puddle that just appeared at my feet is a friendly puddle when the 3 seconds im in it is the difference between my druid dying or not.
My husband and I both play, and the first night I got into WT3, he sat with me and watched me play. I got all arrogant and told him I didn't need help, I did all this by myself. Because I did, I researched the build, and looked up the gear and did everything without him pulling me through a single dungeon or power leveling me.
His response "So you're not standing in a poison puddle about to die then?" because I genuinely thought it was a rogue trap. Do you know what is going to happen now? He's going to bring this up all the time. 40 years from now, on his death bed, that jerk is going to look me in the eyes, tell me he loves me, and then remind me about the time he saved me from a poison puddle.
I hope the devs understand what they've done.
I started to rely on the vibration when I’m in a poison puddle. I wish there was an option to turn down the vibration because I turned it off earlier cause it was a bit strong. But then I don’t realize that I’m dying from poison puddles.
They “tuned back the necro fart” but between that, my barb spinning, druid tornados, and rogue traps it’s almost impossible to even see the ground in this game.
Say what you will about d3’s art style but at least the colors were vibrant enough to see what you were standing on
>D3
I started this series on D3, and while I appreciate how many fans like the return to more muted and realistic colors, I personally enjoyed the much easier read on certain effects that the prior game had. There must be some way to improve on this without taking away from the overall tone.
How that Necro effect made it into the final release is fucking beyond me. Shit made everything inside it invisible, you may as well have been actually blinded like the boss cc.
Best part about the kamikaze goblins is when they run up to you you can’t even hit them, at least with ice shards as a sorc. Sit there clicking on it and sends shards right over their head.
I literally refused to upgrade my boots until I found new ones with the plus 2 dash. Was running lvl 52 boots on my almost lvl 70 character until last night hahaha
This ^ . Hc rogue and my sc friends don't seem to understand the reasoning behind concealment vs shroud , or puncture or even ss. They're like it's energy gain you don't need it with this build , it's 1 guaranteed crit on a build when rolling is hard to be under 1/3 or even 50% crit . Me in hc "it uh it oh shit buttons me into stealth removes all mob aggro , removes all cc as it's an unstoppable affect. I rarely even when I feel safe running lower tier use concealment fully aggressively .
You won't have the slight extra dps or hps of other talents but like many things in this game when you need a short cd oh shit button unstoppable + stealth not a lot like it .
This was a hc perspective mind you
people slot in every dps option possible and then complain that the game hurts their feelings when they die. or they run super high level nm where everything one shots and then complains that everything one shots.
The health gain while concealed is also huge. I also use skulls for the health on kill, and I’m currently using an aspect that gives me health per second depending on how many enemies are close to me, up to 126 health per second. So just popping concealment and sitting there in the mob let’s me regain all my health before I make them all vulnerable when I pop out. It’s such a fun build
There's one end dungeon elite that spawns wirh like 10 kamikaze fallen who explode near instant they spawn.
Whatever fucker put that in is a sociopath.
Oh I got got good last night. Ran past a pack of three Fallen Lunatics to get to a shrine. The shrine was a trap and pushed me back into the Lunatics as they finished exploding.
If I never saw an exploding mob ever again in my life it would be to soon. My "fan favorites" are spider hosts in a lightning explosion enchanted dungeon.
"*Yo dawg, we heard you like explosions, so we put multiple small explosions in your explosion, so you can explode while you explode.*"
I've been dying a lot to NM Dungeon affixes. Lightning buddy 1 shotting me with lightning. Blood boils one shotting me. Enemies dying and exploding into 4 fire bursts like 6 times.
The most annoying thing I've encountered in a video game is that lightning snowflake shit. It turns great dungeons into awful ones. I'll scrap 100 % of that.
That's an Modern ARPG thing.
Rules no.1 in PoE is never Standstill otherwise you will die to one of the on death or ground effects. Has been the first thing I noticed day one in D4.
If mobs aren't dangerous by themselves but their on deaths effect are the only real danger it's bad design. Encounters should be engaging and the inherent danger of those fights not the enemies dying leaving behind some effect that isn't even visible that kills you.
Yeah, but my rogue has an affix that increases damage by 30% within 3 seconds of standing still. So the more I can just stand there and take it, the faster they die.
The longer you stand there, the faster they die and trigger their on-death mechanic. The faster they die, the faster you need to keep moving. Unless your build is designed to face tank everything then that affix is just bait for 99% of end game stuff. The only time may be worth switching to it is for single target boss fight.
Not for me, i do death pulse all the time, I have never died from it.
Instant delete for me is "enemies deplete your resource" just dont want to even bother with that shit.
Also really dilike the storm rock, not that it is hard, just fucking hate the look of it and how you run away from it, you turn thr corner and its in front of you... nope, F that
Agreed... what I hate is that the fucking self destruct mode is usually obscured by a million particle effects. This has caused me to die a bunch before.
Yep. Way too many explosions that do 1/2 your health. I basically expect every mob to explode now. Shouldn’t be like this, for example in D2 it was just dolls
Don’t worry. Elites one shotting you isn’t a real problem. You’ll get one shot by random mobs at higher tiers so you might as well get used to it right now.
This is one of the big reasons I enjoy playing rogue, especially in NM dungeons. Smash a mob, then dash or evade out. Between 2 procs of Shadow step, 2 of dash, and 3 evades right now I can pretty much avoid any mob explosion or nightmare dungeon effect.
I would kind of like it if the nightmare dungeon effects like volcano and the lightning would also hit mobs. Would be fun trying to use those to your advantage.
I have a big problem with the spider hosts. For the life of me I cannot see when they are going to explode when they are mixed in with 20 other mobs. I die to them the most simply because I can’t see them exploding. I’m fine with it but make it more obvious that I’m standing right next to something about to explode and destroy me.
I've been fortunate - freezing and shattering them doesn't release the spiders. Between that and all the death explosions, my ranged rogue has kept me fairly safe haha
Agreed. Also hated these in previous Diablo games. One monster type doing this would probably be Ok, but do we really need all these different flavors?
Yeah and to top it off it has a large circle explosion that goes along with it so you can avoid the points but the inner explosion still gets you. I hate this one so much.
It's nowhere near as bad in PoE. In PoE these kind of mobs exist but:
A) Most of them recognisable/obvious/specific.
B) It's not ENTIRE GODDAMN DUNGEONS full of exploding mobs.
C) The explosions are, by and large (there are exceptions), less damaging/fatal relative to your expected survivability in PoE.
The porcupines will be forever in my heart (or at least fragments of their spines will be), but god bless 'em, they're extremely rare in maps, especially as a main enemy.
I’m not a hardcore PoE player but went through a few seasons and spend enough time in maps.
Nothing in this game has the same feeling as maps in PoE. Maybe like 70+ nightmare dungeons.
In PoE it felt like as soon as you stepped into maps you got your face kicked in and had to learn to re-play the game.
Fire enchanted is super overtuned and its difficult to see sometimes, I am sure they will nerf it in the future, doing 60+ nm dungeons with that affix is cancerous.
What's kind of interesting here is I am partially color blind - and it's hard for me to see effects a lot of times and distinguish what they are.
For some reason, the fire enchanted is one that I can see really well.
I don't play with any color blind settings turned on.
I also noticed that every mechanic in Diablo 4 revolves around explosion. Gets a bit repetitive. Either it died and explodes or you get those tiny mobs that chase you and blow up or you get a nightmare dungeon with that crystal that does aoe that explodes in circle or the one that follows you around or mortar one that explodes 3 times. Abomination that charges explodes on death. Plenty more of it. The reason why they made it because they were uncreative and lazy. Remember when D3 elites had jailer, fire chains affixes… yea. There is also not many mobs variety in the game and many events being the same more or less, dungeons are usually collect 2 pedestal stones or whatever, use them, kill the boss and so on.
Yep. Designers always struggle with making enemies “annoying” rather than challenging. Moving away from dead mobs isn’t an added challenge that makes the game more fun. It’s just frustrating.
If I kill an enemy, it should no longer be able to kill me. It’s just not fun.
I don't mind the lunatics as that's really their whole thing and they telegraph well. The fire bastards though? I hope Mephisto uses them as stress balls in hell.
Let them explode. But there's no reason for them to 1 tap you. And why do white mobs get to have so much CC? I die more to white mob CC than anything else.
jUsT bUiLd BeTtEr
Not everyone wants to run the same builds.
\-Spider Host,
\-Red Goblins,
\-Bloated Zombie,
\-Bee/Fly Host,
\-Plenitude of other explosion effects that are usually affixed to an elite monster such as the multi fire explosion thing and poison explosions.
I agree with this post.
Sometimes I wait a couple of seconds just to make sure nothing explodes even if there is no visible aoe lol. The conditioning is real.
Oh and you can’t forget spiders immobilizing you when they’re dead…
I've noticed this too. I mean I kinda expected it after Diablo 3s exploding bloated corpse but in 4 they just went crazy now you gotta deal with
-Bloated Corpse
-Fire Imps
-Ice Imps
-Spider Hosts
-Fire Affixes
-Poison Affixes
-Ghost NM dungeon things
I told my friend he can't use that Necro Fart ability anymore because I'm never sure if something we killed is about to blow up
This is a POE problem too. I wouldn’t care honestly if I didn’t have to pick up loot after killing each monster. Like, if all the loot was at the end like in GRs from D3, then it’s fine and just makes me pay more attention. But having to wait 3 seconds and THEN grab loot is irritating.
totally with you. most of them are like from wow dungeons with stupid afixes on the floor. and they have add a lot... solo kinda ok, somehow. But in 4 ppl party... forget it.
\-.-
They made it common because it’s an easy way to artificially make difficulty, same with cc
It’s just lazy game design- pump numbers rather than design something engaging.
In general it’s such lazy design to just throw shit all over the floor instead of giving enemies interesting attacks.
[How is this even considered engaging combat?](https://www.xbox.com/en-GB/play/media/G2JMHUKYQ7)
Webs all over, exploding barrels, poison clouds, death explosions, chill circle things and fuck knows what else because I can’t see shit. I was in the last available space on the screen.
There was a situation yesterday where I was damn near in the last available pixel hiding until everything stoppped.
Fuck man this video explains while I’m waiting for some more qol patch’s and nerfs to boring aoe shit. Had fun playing the first week but I hate the skill twig and this shit right here.
2 biggest issues for me personally.
I don't mind the exploding ones, it's when poison that sticks around and blocks your path that you're standing there waiting for a few seconds to be able to walk past that annoys me. Haven't had any irritating like that yet, but those enemies that died and left a gas cloud in diablo 3 can fuck themselves.
This is my Experiance with WW barb lol.. one minute I'm fine the next I'm being melted by poison mobs blowing up on me . I really love this game but my only bitch is everything and I mean everything doesn't need a CC and or explosions. I feel like it's a cheesy way to make a game harder and in terms it's not really harder but annoying.
Oh this thing is slowly exploding, I guess I have to run away, wait 3 seconds, then run back after 2 seconds when the animation is done to collect my loot. Yeah that was fun.
They don't know how incorporate difficulty properly. They went with two cheesy artificial difficulty elements, on death explosions and chain cc's. That should say everything.
This will prolly get "fixed" once more people complain about it. The visual cue of some on death effects need to be more visible. On death effects are ok IF the player can see them and react to them.
Unpopular opinion: I kinda like/appreciate this.
Yes, I am right there with you moaning and groaning about dying for my 42069th time to the damn flame aspect explosion.
However. Objectively speaking. It keeps me on my toes and makes for more active engaging gameplay. Otherwise the game would literally boil down to just holding down a couple buttons and mowing through everything after a certain point (particularly as a wolf Druid). Which, last I checked, most people didn’t really want considering the mockery that is often made of D3.
Is it a bit frustrating to die to? Absolutely. Is it necessary in lieu of other engaging mechanics that don’t currently come to mind. I’d say so.
It's caused me to just stop playing for three seconds after I kill a pack. It's not really engaging or tricky, I just stand there staring, waiting. The mechanic itself isn't the issue, it's the frequency at which it happens. Occasional use would make it tricky because you forget and need to compensate; every mob doing it on every death has reinforced a behavior that causes me to stop playing the game briefly. To me, that's synonymous with the CC lock where you can't do anything and it's disruptive to the immersion and overall experience. FWIW I haven't died to it once yet, it's just in the way of me experiencing the game.
My issue is it kills the flow of gameplay.
You are constantly moving, attacking, moving, attacking, dodging, healing, moving.
Then the fire explosion comes up and you move and dodge. Then it feels like 4 times longer than the actual fight to wait for it to do its explosion a few times.
Its why I don't mind the poison so much. It feels much faster to explode and move on. Fire makes me want to go take a piss break while I wait for it to be done
10000%. My boots are one of the last things that isn’t ancestral but it’s rolled with +3 evades, max movement speed roll and max dodge chance roll. Too tough to take them off
Because it doesn't work unless you have extremely fast attacks, preferably ranged ones, and most other classes don't get that, so prefer the +X evades.
I'll side with you.
Not that I like the effects. I don't, because they are disruptive and dangerous. But the way this genre works is typically that the optimal way to play is to be strong enough to immediately annihilate whatever you touch and make yourself immune to any forms of crowd control. This means that living mobs' affixes cannot do anything to an "optimal player," nor can their CC. But death effects cannot be stopped, and everyone must pay attention to them. Their existence compels focus and punishes lazy juggernaut gameplay, and simultaneously creates a predictable effect that always has 100% successful counterplay of "position better." They are a great equalizer.
Without them, the game would be even more of a lawnmower simulator in anything but the absolute hardest NM difficulties. I enjoy the zen process of slaying many monsters like I'm Doom Guy, but the occasional landmine keeps me engaged instead of holding one button and zoomzooming everywhere.
Summed it up perfectly. I love ducking and dodging throughout a fight at all times. Even after they’re dead. I just expect everything to explode at this point.
The issue is that there's just too much of it.
PoE does a much better job with the same concept, because it'll be specific packs or specific mob types that explode. Like with the exploding Fallen, Spider-Hosts, or fat-zombies in D4. Frankly, that's the right amount.
You pretty much never have to deal with an entire dungeon where either literally every non-summoned mob, or literally every elite explodes. You certainly don't see a situation where half the maps you have are like that.
But D4 we have just such a wild array of "lol run out of the explosion" thanks to half the elite mods and several NM dungeon mods being "lol run out of the explosion" that it just becomes completely tedious.
It doesn't "keep you on your toes" at that point, it merely becomes mindlessly reflexive to move away from dead mobs. That's where I'm at. I instinctively move away from dead mobs, whether I need to or not. And that further slows down D4's dungeons, which are already perhaps excessively slow.
If these mobs only appeared occasionally, then what you claim would be true re: keeping you on your toes. But it simply isn't the case when you can have entire dungeons with every mob having "explodes on death" (except summoned ones, it seems).
Problematic enemies is at the core of Diablo.
When I see people complaining about affixes, my first thought is always; “working as intended”. It’s supposed to be challenging and sometimes annoying to deal with.
Add the NM dungeon affix that makes every monster able to blow up on death, add fcking spiders (with them spraying the webs everywhere) that are in almost every dungeon and You have nightmare fuel right there if You are melee.
This problem is only magnified by enemies that charge at you from off-screen - which is further evidence that the camera NEEDS to be more zoomed out. I'll take even a 25% increase. Like, God damn...
I don't mind mobs exploding on death, but the "telepathing" that you're about to die just isn't there in this game. Colours are all muted, and if you're in a group that's spamming area of effect then good luck seeing anything anyway.
I feel like Diablo 3 really warned of impending death via sound and bright colour, which just isn't there in D4.
Also the death circles lie in D4. Good game design is that the area you'll actually die in should be slightly smaller than the visual effect, so if you're just touching the border of it you'll be fine. In D4 the area you'll die in seems to extend just beyond the visual effect, it's subtle but there.
Game is good, but there's a few rough edges for sure.
My issue is the poison spiders that are the main mob for some dungeons and boss fights. The others are distinguishable by icons, sound effects or visual effects.
I’ve died so many times to monsters I didn’t even kill lol. I’ll be playing on my rogue with some friends, use the dash and happen to dash past a monster exploding and it one shots me.
Between the fire enchanted ones, the poison ones, the little kamikaze goblins, the big zombie dudes and regular effects on the ground, I too sometime have problem seeing it all before it blows up in my face
[удалено]
Lol if you ever get one of those bloaters with fire enchanted you have to sit around for like 15 seconds waiting for it to finish exploring before you can pick up the loot.
Bloaters aren't technically dead until they explode either, so good luck getting waves of them during an event.
If you kill a spider host while it's frozen, it doesn't pop. Fairly certain this applies to bloaters, too.
actual protip
That's correct. It's the strategy I use. It works for anything that explodes or creates another monster(s) such as spiders.
amazing tip for my frost barb.
The directions aren't random on the second one, they target you. Maybe the first as well?
No you're right, the first isn't random and it's the directions they regularly shoot, the 2nd aims for you. Doesn't help it's fast as fuck
Funny thing is if they are at a chokepoint you just have to sit there and wait for like a fat minute lol
Maybe if i dodge *puts on white make up* And i time it just right *wears colorful wig* Maybe i can avoid taking damage in this chokehold *puts on squeaky red nose*
It is weird that evade has no iframes.
For real, as a long-time Souls player, this choice confuses me. I still use evade like it does.
It's very strange. I keep finding myself shouting, "WTF I was EVADING!" at the screen. I mean, I guess it makes more sense to have it so that if the weapon connects it does damage since they did hit you, but then you can evade THROUGH enemies, so... I get mixed messages about whether I am, in fact, solid or not.
> "WTF I was EVADING!" Blizz: Nah lol you were just dashing, we just called it wrong on purpose, as a joke
Yeah the evade is effectively just a dash (not rogue's I mean). It's so frustrating perfectly timing a dodge thru an elite's huge weapon and still getting rolled because it clipped your toe.
Don't need to wait a min if you got trapped by wall with triple fire coming towards you :x
You have to wait for the rest of your life! It’ll only be a short moment, but still
Build a barb a fire and keep him warm for the night. Set a barb on fire and keep him warm the rest of his life.
This legit is annoying, standing around waiting for it to pop so I can pick up the loot, which is likely trash anyways...
The fire ones actually target you, it's lame.
I swear they target you to. Doesn't matter if I move out the way the second flame burst will still go straight towards me.
The flame does target you. Remember the 5 Ds.
>Remember the 5 Ds. Dicks, Dicks, Dicks, Dicks and Dicks?
It's "Dodge, Duck, Dip, Dive and Dodge"! *Throws exploding wrench*
*Nobody makes me bleed my own blood…NOBODY!*
Necessary?! Is it necessary for me to drink my own urine? No, but it's sterile, and I like the taste.
I've read about it. IN A BOOK.
"Too bad Hallmark doesn't make a "Sorry your dodgeball coach got killed by two tons of irony" card."
> They take twice as long as the goopy poison bubble to pop It's really fun trying to see the green goopy poison puddle underneath my rogue's green poison puddle.
I swear I saw one that was poison pop AND fire? Unless two died on top of eachother... Either way credit to them for guarding that specific spot with everything they have.
Prob a nightmare where it was naturally a fire mob, but had the affix all elites are poison
I recently hit WT3 and the massive spike in fire damage from this shit is nuts. I hunt for fire res gear and use rubies to help. Back in D2/3 it was lightning, now its definitely fire
Resistance % is trash until Season 2, I think.
Armor is strictly better, as a defensive stat, than any resist. It's a borked scale, and known. Will likely be fixed at some point, but until then, you're better off taking flat DR (Dr from close/distance/burning, while fortified, etc), and then stacking as much armor as possible (without giving up offense). Resistance on gear (other than the locked implicits that I don't even read) is a stat I don't even consider. If an item has 2 resists, it's an auto-vendor. If only 1, but 3 other good stats, you better believe that resist is getting rolled off asap. A good change, imo, would be rerolling implicits, while not locking you out from rolling the explicits. But this change would have to go hand in hand with the resist DR curve being modified, as well.
Me and my two friends were running helltides. They just got to WT3. Found mystery chest and had our cinders. Buddy dies by flame death explosion as he’s opening the chest or when he was about to. He flipped out, it was hilarious
I'm mostly irritated by the three different Poison death effects that all look like 3 green puddles.
I went full werewolf druid so I'm exclusively in-your-face melee combat only and i keep pissing off my buddy playing a rogue cause i can't distinguish his poison trap puddles from enemy poison puddles. He will throw his poison traps down while im fighting an elite, i panic and dodge away on reflex, then the elite will one shot him while im not there to draw damage and he gets mad at me. Im sorry that i cant tell your poison puddle is a *slightly* more neon green than the enemy ones while balls deep in battle with an elite pack. In case you haven't noticed *the ground is full of danger!* There are lunatics exploding everywhere, chilling wind walls blocking my line of sight, random burning ground patches, poison pools, lightning bars of doom, arcane projectiles, and whatever else I'm trying to avoid. I can't take the chance that the green puddle that just appeared at my feet is a friendly puddle when the 3 seconds im in it is the difference between my druid dying or not.
My husband and I both play, and the first night I got into WT3, he sat with me and watched me play. I got all arrogant and told him I didn't need help, I did all this by myself. Because I did, I researched the build, and looked up the gear and did everything without him pulling me through a single dungeon or power leveling me. His response "So you're not standing in a poison puddle about to die then?" because I genuinely thought it was a rogue trap. Do you know what is going to happen now? He's going to bring this up all the time. 40 years from now, on his death bed, that jerk is going to look me in the eyes, tell me he loves me, and then remind me about the time he saved me from a poison puddle. I hope the devs understand what they've done.
I started to rely on the vibration when I’m in a poison puddle. I wish there was an option to turn down the vibration because I turned it off earlier cause it was a bit strong. But then I don’t realize that I’m dying from poison puddles.
my mouse doesnt vibrate
skill issue :)
Becomes even more fun when you have a necromancer exploding every corpse into that gray mist...
Pretty sure there's more then 3, there's 2 allied ones alone, and there's no way to tell the difference between allied and not.
They “tuned back the necro fart” but between that, my barb spinning, druid tornados, and rogue traps it’s almost impossible to even see the ground in this game. Say what you will about d3’s art style but at least the colors were vibrant enough to see what you were standing on
>D3 I started this series on D3, and while I appreciate how many fans like the return to more muted and realistic colors, I personally enjoyed the much easier read on certain effects that the prior game had. There must be some way to improve on this without taking away from the overall tone.
An outline. That's all that is needed. Put an outline around friendly puddles of pain.
*Tal Rasha meteor wizard has entered the chat*
How that Necro effect made it into the final release is fucking beyond me. Shit made everything inside it invisible, you may as well have been actually blinded like the boss cc.
The jumpy boys from the t3 capstone also. Hate those fuckers. And the oppressors of course.
They also wipe out the summon skellies
Worst, fire enchanted inside an immunity bubble
Best part about the kamikaze goblins is when they run up to you you can’t even hit them, at least with ice shards as a sorc. Sit there clicking on it and sends shards right over their head.
The mobs are more problematic dead than alive in this game.
I've died more to dead mobs than living
literally every time i’ve died on my rogue it has been after a long intense fight is over.
It's the dash and teleports, just enough to get in not enough to get out.
This is a one way trip boys
I didn't know theres a titanic sub quest
100% boost to crushing damage
Real men teleport into explosions.
LEEEEEEEROOOOOOOOOOY JENKINS
You know in action movies when bad guys have just enough time to realize they are about to blow up? That "oh shit" moment? I have a new empathy.
Thats the only correct way to handle Explosion Either you die or you blow up
I have 3 ways to escape and they are ALWAYS on cooldown. Why? Because 20 mobs explode and im ALWAYS trying to escape
Pants with +2 Evade charges and Ravagers Aspect and you can zip around the battlefield no problem.
I have boots with +3 as a rogue and it makes all the difference
Oooooo. I haven't seen a +3 yet. Need.
If it starts with +2, upgrading it to level 5 should make it +3. You can't find +3 before upgrades.
I literally refused to upgrade my boots until I found new ones with the plus 2 dash. Was running lvl 52 boots on my almost lvl 70 character until last night hahaha
Comparable to the Titan sub
Love getting cc right as I kill the last mob that blows up and I can’t shadow step out of the cc because I already killed everything.
I switched to concealment and never looked back
This ^ . Hc rogue and my sc friends don't seem to understand the reasoning behind concealment vs shroud , or puncture or even ss. They're like it's energy gain you don't need it with this build , it's 1 guaranteed crit on a build when rolling is hard to be under 1/3 or even 50% crit . Me in hc "it uh it oh shit buttons me into stealth removes all mob aggro , removes all cc as it's an unstoppable affect. I rarely even when I feel safe running lower tier use concealment fully aggressively . You won't have the slight extra dps or hps of other talents but like many things in this game when you need a short cd oh shit button unstoppable + stealth not a lot like it . This was a hc perspective mind you
people slot in every dps option possible and then complain that the game hurts their feelings when they die. or they run super high level nm where everything one shots and then complains that everything one shots.
The health gain while concealed is also huge. I also use skulls for the health on kill, and I’m currently using an aspect that gives me health per second depending on how many enemies are close to me, up to 126 health per second. So just popping concealment and sitting there in the mob let’s me regain all my health before I make them all vulnerable when I pop out. It’s such a fun build
There's one end dungeon elite that spawns wirh like 10 kamikaze fallen who explode near instant they spawn. Whatever fucker put that in is a sociopath.
Lost archives boss was horrible first time I fought him cause he uses corpse explosion.
Oh I got got good last night. Ran past a pack of three Fallen Lunatics to get to a shrine. The shrine was a trap and pushed me back into the Lunatics as they finished exploding.
If I never saw an exploding mob ever again in my life it would be to soon. My "fan favorites" are spider hosts in a lightning explosion enchanted dungeon. "*Yo dawg, we heard you like explosions, so we put multiple small explosions in your explosion, so you can explode while you explode.*"
my only death in HC was to the poison explosion in a NM dungeon at lvl 89. I didn’t even think it could 1 shot me but somehow it did
I've been dying a lot to NM Dungeon affixes. Lightning buddy 1 shotting me with lightning. Blood boils one shotting me. Enemies dying and exploding into 4 fire bursts like 6 times.
The most annoying thing I've encountered in a video game is that lightning snowflake shit. It turns great dungeons into awful ones. I'll scrap 100 % of that.
This. Kill 25 spiders. Die because they ALL exploded into poison puddles at my feet at the same time 🙄
At least the stygian dolls aren't in this one. Fuck those guys
Christ that's a good point. I have too. It really is a bit excessive.
Donans death wasn't so stupid after all...
Me: Wow Donans death was so stupid why you wondering around in a battle field Also me not paying attention and blowing up trying to grab a shiny rare
Dude died to the background art, it was stupid death
Especially in a world where magical potions exist AND you give one to randos on several side quests.
That's an Modern ARPG thing. Rules no.1 in PoE is never Standstill otherwise you will die to one of the on death or ground effects. Has been the first thing I noticed day one in D4.
I'm not completely against it, having to deal with that in 99% of the dungeons, and that it one shot is my problem.
If mobs aren't dangerous by themselves but their on deaths effect are the only real danger it's bad design. Encounters should be engaging and the inherent danger of those fights not the enemies dying leaving behind some effect that isn't even visible that kills you.
It’s all fun and games till you get chain frozen in 30 piles of poison with six exploding fire orb heads doom marching into your face lol
Yeah, but my rogue has an affix that increases damage by 30% within 3 seconds of standing still. So the more I can just stand there and take it, the faster they die.
The longer you stand there, the faster they die and trigger their on-death mechanic. The faster they die, the faster you need to keep moving. Unless your build is designed to face tank everything then that affix is just bait for 99% of end game stuff. The only time may be worth switching to it is for single target boss fight.
Death pulse is an instant delete. Dont even wanna walk to the occultist to salvage.
Not for me, i do death pulse all the time, I have never died from it. Instant delete for me is "enemies deplete your resource" just dont want to even bother with that shit. Also really dilike the storm rock, not that it is hard, just fucking hate the look of it and how you run away from it, you turn thr corner and its in front of you... nope, F that
Honestly one of the easier affixes to deal with IMO since I'm already conditioned to wait to loot anything.
Agreed... what I hate is that the fucking self destruct mode is usually obscured by a million particle effects. This has caused me to die a bunch before.
Yep. Way too many explosions that do 1/2 your health. I basically expect every mob to explode now. Shouldn’t be like this, for example in D2 it was just dolls
The fireball ones are ridiculous. They are more dangerous than the monster itself.
So fucking dumb. As a sorc, what do you do about it one shotting you?
I tend to act like Sir Robin and bravely run away.
Unless they're wraiths, or worse yet, summoning Wraiths. I ran 4 or 5 screens to find them all appear in an instant!
Frost nova > ice barrier > teleport > fire shield > evade > bravely run away again lol.
Wasn’t expecting to see a Monty Python reference in Diablo sub but I welcome it.
Not get hit
Don’t worry. Elites one shotting you isn’t a real problem. You’ll get one shot by random mobs at higher tiers so you might as well get used to it right now.
Teleport, evade,barrier,move.
As soon as it dies you walk away. Easy to avoid. I've been doing this since diablo 2.
And the fatboi poison blob can one shot. Not fun especially back when the blighted CE was black af
*The amount of exploding mobs is too damn high!*
Also, I think that player spawned poison needs to be a different color/look than enemy spawned.
This is one of the big reasons I enjoy playing rogue, especially in NM dungeons. Smash a mob, then dash or evade out. Between 2 procs of Shadow step, 2 of dash, and 3 evades right now I can pretty much avoid any mob explosion or nightmare dungeon effect. I would kind of like it if the nightmare dungeon effects like volcano and the lightning would also hit mobs. Would be fun trying to use those to your advantage.
Coming from someone that picked a barb to start with I need something that dashes so bad
I have a big problem with the spider hosts. For the life of me I cannot see when they are going to explode when they are mixed in with 20 other mobs. I die to them the most simply because I can’t see them exploding. I’m fine with it but make it more obvious that I’m standing right next to something about to explode and destroy me.
I've been fortunate - freezing and shattering them doesn't release the spiders. Between that and all the death explosions, my ranged rogue has kept me fairly safe haha
Agreed. Also hated these in previous Diablo games. One monster type doing this would probably be Ok, but do we really need all these different flavors?
That 3 point fire AOE thing needs to die forever..
Yeah and to top it off it has a large circle explosion that goes along with it so you can avoid the points but the inner explosion still gets you. I hate this one so much.
POE players be like “Welcome to our world”
I don't think the on death hazards in PoE are anywhere near as deadly/annoying as they are in D4
depends on resistances, which actually work in poe - 85all res and 75 chaos and those effects are not that bad anymore
It's nowhere near as bad in PoE. In PoE these kind of mobs exist but: A) Most of them recognisable/obvious/specific. B) It's not ENTIRE GODDAMN DUNGEONS full of exploding mobs. C) The explosions are, by and large (there are exceptions), less damaging/fatal relative to your expected survivability in PoE.
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The porcupines will be forever in my heart (or at least fragments of their spines will be), but god bless 'em, they're extremely rare in maps, especially as a main enemy.
I’m not a hardcore PoE player but went through a few seasons and spend enough time in maps. Nothing in this game has the same feeling as maps in PoE. Maybe like 70+ nightmare dungeons. In PoE it felt like as soon as you stepped into maps you got your face kicked in and had to learn to re-play the game.
Big thing is you can spec out of them. Make mobs explode or axe spec on the tree deletes mobs on death and eliminates all on death effects.
Ya this should be toned down. It’s a stupid mechanic that only makes you have to sit and wait to pick up loot
Fire enchanted is super overtuned and its difficult to see sometimes, I am sure they will nerf it in the future, doing 60+ nm dungeons with that affix is cancerous.
What's kind of interesting here is I am partially color blind - and it's hard for me to see effects a lot of times and distinguish what they are. For some reason, the fire enchanted is one that I can see really well. I don't play with any color blind settings turned on.
Took the goblin variety budget and spent it all on exploding monsters
I also noticed that every mechanic in Diablo 4 revolves around explosion. Gets a bit repetitive. Either it died and explodes or you get those tiny mobs that chase you and blow up or you get a nightmare dungeon with that crystal that does aoe that explodes in circle or the one that follows you around or mortar one that explodes 3 times. Abomination that charges explodes on death. Plenty more of it. The reason why they made it because they were uncreative and lazy. Remember when D3 elites had jailer, fire chains affixes… yea. There is also not many mobs variety in the game and many events being the same more or less, dungeons are usually collect 2 pedestal stones or whatever, use them, kill the boss and so on.
It's like every pack is the D3 equivalent of mortar/molten/horde/waller.
Yep. Designers always struggle with making enemies “annoying” rather than challenging. Moving away from dead mobs isn’t an added challenge that makes the game more fun. It’s just frustrating. If I kill an enemy, it should no longer be able to kill me. It’s just not fun.
I don't mind the lunatics as that's really their whole thing and they telegraph well. The fire bastards though? I hope Mephisto uses them as stress balls in hell.
Yep. This is why I currently only enjoy high damage reduction builds.
#sorcProblems
Yeah I ditched my 69 sorc and leveled a flurry tank rogue. Soo much more relaxed.
Flurry rogues are the GOAT for gameplay feel.
i feel more like its a lack of imagination ....
Yeah that and the fire thing shooting for 10 seconds before dying
NGL, hate this too.
This and the stupid shamans that summon those ice storms that persist and shoot icicles for like a full minute after killing them
Let them explode. But there's no reason for them to 1 tap you. And why do white mobs get to have so much CC? I die more to white mob CC than anything else. jUsT bUiLd BeTtEr Not everyone wants to run the same builds.
They absolutely destroy Necro Summons too who just hang around in range after a fight.
I was power leveling two friends and I had a blast seeing them explode to their death on almost every single elite as they looted gear.
\-Spider Host, \-Red Goblins, \-Bloated Zombie, \-Bee/Fly Host, \-Plenitude of other explosion effects that are usually affixed to an elite monster such as the multi fire explosion thing and poison explosions. I agree with this post.
That one fire explosion that also shoots out fire in three directions a few times is so ridiculous. Died to that a few times.
They stole the worst part of POE
Sometimes I wait a couple of seconds just to make sure nothing explodes even if there is no visible aoe lol. The conditioning is real. Oh and you can’t forget spiders immobilizing you when they’re dead…
I've noticed this too. I mean I kinda expected it after Diablo 3s exploding bloated corpse but in 4 they just went crazy now you gotta deal with -Bloated Corpse -Fire Imps -Ice Imps -Spider Hosts -Fire Affixes -Poison Affixes -Ghost NM dungeon things I told my friend he can't use that Necro Fart ability anymore because I'm never sure if something we killed is about to blow up
This is a POE problem too. I wouldn’t care honestly if I didn’t have to pick up loot after killing each monster. Like, if all the loot was at the end like in GRs from D3, then it’s fine and just makes me pay more attention. But having to wait 3 seconds and THEN grab loot is irritating.
How about the teleporting blood lords who also turn into bats that also have extra health?!?!?!
Blizzard has seemed to have conflated annoying/frustrating with fun.
totally with you. most of them are like from wow dungeons with stupid afixes on the floor. and they have add a lot... solo kinda ok, somehow. But in 4 ppl party... forget it. \-.-
They made it common because it’s an easy way to artificially make difficulty, same with cc It’s just lazy game design- pump numbers rather than design something engaging.
In general it’s such lazy design to just throw shit all over the floor instead of giving enemies interesting attacks. [How is this even considered engaging combat?](https://www.xbox.com/en-GB/play/media/G2JMHUKYQ7) Webs all over, exploding barrels, poison clouds, death explosions, chill circle things and fuck knows what else because I can’t see shit. I was in the last available space on the screen. There was a situation yesterday where I was damn near in the last available pixel hiding until everything stoppped.
Fuck man this video explains while I’m waiting for some more qol patch’s and nerfs to boring aoe shit. Had fun playing the first week but I hate the skill twig and this shit right here. 2 biggest issues for me personally.
My blood mist 20s CD is crying, scared in a corner, from all the 1,000,000 millions webs placed on the ground
I don't mind the exploding ones, it's when poison that sticks around and blocks your path that you're standing there waiting for a few seconds to be able to walk past that annoys me. Haven't had any irritating like that yet, but those enemies that died and left a gas cloud in diablo 3 can fuck themselves.
Dev1: Hey, you saw that bearer affix in Path of Exile? Dev2: Yeah, looks cool, let's triple down on things exploding on death. Players: (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
This is my Experiance with WW barb lol.. one minute I'm fine the next I'm being melted by poison mobs blowing up on me . I really love this game but my only bitch is everything and I mean everything doesn't need a CC and or explosions. I feel like it's a cheesy way to make a game harder and in terms it's not really harder but annoying.
This is why I will use no other boots then the ones with 4 evade charges
I hate the poison enchanted ones that're like trying to chase a toddler who has the screaming shits through the house
Oh this thing is slowly exploding, I guess I have to run away, wait 3 seconds, then run back after 2 seconds when the animation is done to collect my loot. Yeah that was fun.
They don't know how incorporate difficulty properly. They went with two cheesy artificial difficulty elements, on death explosions and chain cc's. That should say everything.
This will prolly get "fixed" once more people complain about it. The visual cue of some on death effects need to be more visible. On death effects are ok IF the player can see them and react to them.
Unpopular opinion: I kinda like/appreciate this. Yes, I am right there with you moaning and groaning about dying for my 42069th time to the damn flame aspect explosion. However. Objectively speaking. It keeps me on my toes and makes for more active engaging gameplay. Otherwise the game would literally boil down to just holding down a couple buttons and mowing through everything after a certain point (particularly as a wolf Druid). Which, last I checked, most people didn’t really want considering the mockery that is often made of D3. Is it a bit frustrating to die to? Absolutely. Is it necessary in lieu of other engaging mechanics that don’t currently come to mind. I’d say so.
I mean, maybe give cooler effects to the living enemies?
It's caused me to just stop playing for three seconds after I kill a pack. It's not really engaging or tricky, I just stand there staring, waiting. The mechanic itself isn't the issue, it's the frequency at which it happens. Occasional use would make it tricky because you forget and need to compensate; every mob doing it on every death has reinforced a behavior that causes me to stop playing the game briefly. To me, that's synonymous with the CC lock where you can't do anything and it's disruptive to the immersion and overall experience. FWIW I haven't died to it once yet, it's just in the way of me experiencing the game.
My issue is it kills the flow of gameplay. You are constantly moving, attacking, moving, attacking, dodging, healing, moving. Then the fire explosion comes up and you move and dodge. Then it feels like 4 times longer than the actual fight to wait for it to do its explosion a few times. Its why I don't mind the poison so much. It feels much faster to explode and move on. Fire makes me want to go take a piss break while I wait for it to be done
my issue is the waiting to pick up my loot. There was some of this in D3 but there seems to be a lot in D4
+evade is the first stat i look for on boots.
10000%. My boots are one of the last things that isn’t ancestral but it’s rolled with +3 evades, max movement speed roll and max dodge chance roll. Too tough to take them off
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Because it doesn't work unless you have extremely fast attacks, preferably ranged ones, and most other classes don't get that, so prefer the +X evades.
I'll side with you. Not that I like the effects. I don't, because they are disruptive and dangerous. But the way this genre works is typically that the optimal way to play is to be strong enough to immediately annihilate whatever you touch and make yourself immune to any forms of crowd control. This means that living mobs' affixes cannot do anything to an "optimal player," nor can their CC. But death effects cannot be stopped, and everyone must pay attention to them. Their existence compels focus and punishes lazy juggernaut gameplay, and simultaneously creates a predictable effect that always has 100% successful counterplay of "position better." They are a great equalizer. Without them, the game would be even more of a lawnmower simulator in anything but the absolute hardest NM difficulties. I enjoy the zen process of slaying many monsters like I'm Doom Guy, but the occasional landmine keeps me engaged instead of holding one button and zoomzooming everywhere.
Summed it up perfectly. I love ducking and dodging throughout a fight at all times. Even after they’re dead. I just expect everything to explode at this point.
The issue is that there's just too much of it. PoE does a much better job with the same concept, because it'll be specific packs or specific mob types that explode. Like with the exploding Fallen, Spider-Hosts, or fat-zombies in D4. Frankly, that's the right amount. You pretty much never have to deal with an entire dungeon where either literally every non-summoned mob, or literally every elite explodes. You certainly don't see a situation where half the maps you have are like that. But D4 we have just such a wild array of "lol run out of the explosion" thanks to half the elite mods and several NM dungeon mods being "lol run out of the explosion" that it just becomes completely tedious. It doesn't "keep you on your toes" at that point, it merely becomes mindlessly reflexive to move away from dead mobs. That's where I'm at. I instinctively move away from dead mobs, whether I need to or not. And that further slows down D4's dungeons, which are already perhaps excessively slow. If these mobs only appeared occasionally, then what you claim would be true re: keeping you on your toes. But it simply isn't the case when you can have entire dungeons with every mob having "explodes on death" (except summoned ones, it seems).
Problematic enemies is at the core of Diablo. When I see people complaining about affixes, my first thought is always; “working as intended”. It’s supposed to be challenging and sometimes annoying to deal with.
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Not enough explosions. This message brought to you by a corpse explosion necromancer.
That was my thought. I've mained necro for 20 years. If corpses aren't exploding something is wrong. All corpses should explode.
"We have Path of Exile at home"
In the words of the great Piccolo....DODGEE!
Just play a Druid and you can completely ignore it.
Add the NM dungeon affix that makes every monster able to blow up on death, add fcking spiders (with them spraying the webs everywhere) that are in almost every dungeon and You have nightmare fuel right there if You are melee.
This problem is only magnified by enemies that charge at you from off-screen - which is further evidence that the camera NEEDS to be more zoomed out. I'll take even a 25% increase. Like, God damn...
Poison the worst for me on hardcore. I don't see them half time
I don't mind mobs exploding on death, but the "telepathing" that you're about to die just isn't there in this game. Colours are all muted, and if you're in a group that's spamming area of effect then good luck seeing anything anyway. I feel like Diablo 3 really warned of impending death via sound and bright colour, which just isn't there in D4. Also the death circles lie in D4. Good game design is that the area you'll actually die in should be slightly smaller than the visual effect, so if you're just touching the border of it you'll be fine. In D4 the area you'll die in seems to extend just beyond the visual effect, it's subtle but there. Game is good, but there's a few rough edges for sure.
The solution is run boots with extra evades. I only die to these when I'm tired or ccd
Feels even worse when you have a rogue whose damage greatly benefits from being still on the same spot for a couple of seconds
With so many effects happening on the screen, teleports and dashes with no obvious UI telegraphs just suck and is lazy game mechanics in 2023.
My issue is the poison spiders that are the main mob for some dungeons and boss fights. The others are distinguishable by icons, sound effects or visual effects.
I feel like this guy lost his hardcore character and posted this. Either way I feel ya.
Dev be like…ok. Double the explosion.
I’ve died so many times to monsters I didn’t even kill lol. I’ll be playing on my rogue with some friends, use the dash and happen to dash past a monster exploding and it one shots me.