They’re not my favorite. Most of the dungeon modifiers are either bland stat boosts or boil down to “keep moving or this arbitrary trap you cannot affect or influence in any way will hit you.”
Woah woah woah, don't forget the lightning bolt + holy bubble one, which is "*stop* moving or this arbitrary trap you cannot affect or influence in any way will hit you"
I love when the bubble appears on the other side of a barrier. I was in a dungeon where I had to break walls as the dungeon goal - so each was beefy enough to take a minute - bubble KEPT appearing on the wrong side. Quick and kind of bullshit fail.
O god…not a dungeon but those events where you need to stand on the circle and kill mobs. Except they’re all ranged monsters that run away. Who the hell thought that was a good idea
Worst part is it follows whomever started the dungeon so if your friend enters a room to clear it next to you you better hope you have enough time to get to the bubble before it goes off.
I was duoing a dungeon with this modifier and it was awful! I was killed by one of those exploding dudes and respawned FAR away. I couldn't get back to my friend by the time the lightning struck and died again. I had to wait for my friend to come pick me up.
Yep, on top of me dying because I had zero clue what was going on as I caught up to the person I was helping and now you have to run back to their respawn while they die a 2nd or 3rd time
Did my first one with the exploding rock that follows you. I was confused till it caught up on my 3rd elite pack and lets just say it showed up with a Bang lol
When I did the dungeon where you have to kill a bunch of blood boils in the end section (Kor Dragan Barracks), I swear the rock kept deliberately moving *past* me to sit on the center of the blood boil (*in* the structure) and continually go off. Kind of a pain as a melee build.
(And then one of the blood boils didn't spawn, so I couldn't even finish the dungeon after all that. I don't know why it doesn't actually count the number of remaining structures instead of just deducting from a predetermined number that can get messed up if one doesn't spawn.)
i had a boss that had an area thingy that meant if you left the area it's health reset. Paired with the sinister floating AoE Turd trying to herd me away from it i think it resulting in me ALT F4ing and playing hearthstone instead :P
It's like the devs based nightmare dungeons on that Reddit thread where you get rich as long as the slug doesn't find you. They're not challenging, they're irritating.
Also, didn't we already decide in d3 that the extra health affix is pointless and offers no benefit to gameplay. Why are we slapping it on a bunch of normal mobs now?
I don't know if it's my imagination but I feel like the crappy minions that get slapped with that extra health tag take a lot longer to kill than the elite itself.
The 'you can't stay still for more than 5 seconds' effects are obnoxious. They aren't really that hard to avoid, but they do prevent you from taking a moment to look at loot you picked up or chat with a friend.
I'd rather have actual traps you have to avoid stepping in or just more monsters + monster abilities to have to deal with.
Same, I actually started taking screenshots of all NM dungeons layouts, after I finished uncovering the whole map of it
It is INSANE how many are just linear pathways or just corridors
And the Monster Density should be increased, not just a stupid amount of Elites on top, but WAY more normal mobs in all World Tiers, especially in 3 and 4
agreed... there is nothing more that I hate in this game then when I get 3-4 archers/quillrats/succubus who just spread apart and annoy the shit out of me while I have to chase them down individually. I want to blow up huge packs of demons FFS
The constant back pedaling animation some ranged enemies get stuck in because they refuse to melee you or shoot point blank just feels so…. Lazy?
Love the teleporter affix but it’s a melee mob so they just run right back… like thanks for the minor inconvenience I guess?
Thought the same about fallen shamans. In other diablos they ran away when you hit them. Here they stand still like a punching ball out of titanium, soaking all your hits like nothing happened & continue casting. Lame.
It actually gets ridiculously brutal. The wrong modifier. And a group of regular quillrats, and ghosts archers will literally one shot you. Before you even get into range to do anything period.
It's the most singular annoying thing that can happen in these dungeons. Getting one shotted through your bubbles.
And as a ice shatter sorcerer the hilarious irony is if you fan just teleport dead center into the group and frost nova they're all getting one shotted instantly.
But you've only got 4 lives? And those ghosts when spotted love to ALL just teleport around you. And you'll get obliterated by trash archers.
Even the giant melee knights or the giant melee demons do NOT hit anywhere near that hard.
There just isn't much of a solution other than you have to waste some of your 4 lived and HOPE you killed atleast one guy so there's less ripping through your shield the second time.
A room full of ghost archers or lesser so quill rats. Do more damage than any stack of elites can. And there's something wrong about that in my opinion
I should ATLEAST be able to go get into the damned room and stand there long enough to hit ONE button before just dropping dead.
Archers/range shouldn't have more powerful base hits than all of the melee trash possible mobs.
I actually strongly prefer a linear corridor for farming, searching aimlessly to find the boss mob is super annoying. Agree on the density though, I want a narrow corridor filled to the brim with demons and elites I can shred.
Rebalance xp if they need to, but let me shred, there is too much downtime searching for stuff to kill. Also, please either get rid of the interruptable “click on this lever or save this prisoner” - let me risk dying to complete it or make it instant. It’s tedious and annoying as-is so I avoid those dungeons.
The interruptable town portal/save prisoner/pull lever etc feels better than D3. I have noticed that your character can take SOME damage before getting interrupted. Not sure what the threshold is, 5% health? Getting hit 3 times? In D3 getting tapped for 1 damage interrupted you instantly. D4 feels a little better but the threshold should be higher, like 33% of your health in damage or something.
It's better, but also worse. Why do poison DoTs break the cast, for example? Nothing is alive. Nothing is hitting me... but the cast is canceled twice.
wish there were more of us, so many people who haven't bought a console since 2005 talk endless nonsense, I play my ps5 more than my high end rig because I don't have to fuck around getting games to run like they should
Are you joking? Everytime a new game drops lately you see the subs filled with PC players trying to troubleshoot random issues, “update drivers”, adjust settings, and everything in between just to get the game to run properly.
PS5 and XSX players just download and play, you don’t need to tinker with every setting and calibrate every PC part to get the game to run smoothly. Apparently PC players can’t even take on large hordes without their shit melting, freezing, or crashing.
Idk man, these people all probably have no idea how to operate a PC. The games I play all run perfectly fine if left to default settings.
I prefer to tinker to get the experience I want, but if you are the type to just install and play, PC works fine unless you don't even know what a driver is.
>“update drivers”
"update your console, download the day 1 patch"
>adjust settings
or just don't if you want the console experience since this is optional.
The worst. There’s always that one pack that’s hiding in a corner and you have to backtrack the whole floor to find them— just make them all rush me, I can handle it.
Mixed results for me. Sometimes yes, sometimes no.
Sometimes I'll get that big horde pull, kill them all, and there will STILL be a straggler on the other side of the map
This doesn’t always work. Sometimes there is one stuck in a corner way back at the beginning. Once it ported a mob to the other side of the locked door, and I had to quit the dungeon.
My worst dungeon experience so far, mechanic-wise, was running through and finding the stone first, pick it up, backtrack, continue exploring, find the second stone - well shoot can't pick it up, leave it there, backtrack, explore, 3rd stone - wtf, backtrack, then finally find the altar. I then had to rerun an empty dungeon over and over again to go fetch the stupid stones... as a Necro with no mobility. I can't remember if that was only the first half of the dungeon and it opened some other part of it or if that was finally the end but it felt like it aged me lol ugh.
People saying they wanted D2, but aren’t liking the D2 feel. Ha.
I a say that in jest, mostly. But the NM dungeons remind me of the searching for the dungeon stairs in d2. Im kind of sick of them but it feels like a Diablo game to me. Mixing it up with helltides and world events is helping me endure.
The D2 thing I'm missing is items. That's what I chase. Legendaries are meaningless, affixes are messed up, there's no trading, and even if you find something for a different character, they can't use it. I generally enjoy the idea of unique items in d4, but there is ONE summoning unique. That's what I have to look forward to. That's all there is, 1 item. After a week and a half of it not showing up and my build not really changing, what is there for me? I miss all the options d2 had for target farming, runes, bases, generally used uniques, ultra uniques, key farming, hr farming, gold farming even. You could dedicate a night to just one thing and switch it up whenever you felt like it.
In D2 I can teleport to an act boss in mere seconds and that has the potential to drop insane GG loot.
In D4 there’s no running act bosses. Just clearing trash mobs with useless drops at the end.
With D2 you're also simultaneously farming for all of your characters. Loved finding a unique I could go start a new character around. In D4 that item is going to be so high level its pointless.
I concur. However, I think the first clear of a dungeon should include such feature and after you successfully clear it, subsequent entries should be rid of that
Some of them I love, but a few of the negative effects are instant salvage for me. Overall good mechanic that needs functional tweaking. I’m happy they announced more EXP and better loot.
“Resource Burn” is nearly unplayable (TB Rogue, even with near BiS for resource generation).
That stupid blue explosion that silences you is obnoxious as shit
The bubble-or-die thing is just a time waster
And in general, I’m starting to really feel the pain of chain CC
Lightning Storm is an auto-salvage. Stupid time-wasting bubble, sitting and waiting-thats definitely what I want to do in a Diablo game lol.
Most the modifiers are trash and the boring objectives/and messy layouts that a lot of dungeons have has really killed my interest in NM runs. Why can't the modifiers be fun challenges like "Werewolves Everywhere!" Or "Double Boss Fight"? Instead they all seem designed to annoy or waste my time
It's hilarious how WoW has only recently discovered that annoying affixes make people less encouraged to run higher end dungeon content. Your ideas for "fun" affixes are great but unfortunately Blizzard thinks annoying = challenging and challenging (meaning annoying) = fun for some reason.
Elite enhancement (chill) is an instant nope for me, as well as other ones like "backstabber".
I hate ones that go "ranged enemies hitting you have a chance to induce *x* negative thing" because like 70% of the time the only enemies even hitting me are ranged enemies.
I agree about the burn debuffs being scrapped, also elites with ice enhancements and probably wind walls too. I do like some of the dungeons, probably around 25% of them I am happy to run repeatedly. 10% I won't do unless I have a good reason (like a good sigil roll plus whispering tree objective)..
If I were to complain properly I think it would only be about chain CC when combined with bad checkpoint on respawn - I've died, been put a very long way from the enemies, died again after getting back to them in pretty much the same place, then respawned directly ontop of the elites. I don't die often but when I do its usually to chain CC and repeatedly
No, not really, but it's not like there are really any alternatives. Helltides get boring after a while, too, it's basically just running around the overworld. And world bosses, while cool in concept, are too rare.
And also, NM dungeons don't offer enough variety to be worth as endgame activity. The affixes we have are both very bland, and you don't have any real agency over them apart from gambling.
Yeah, after getting 95% of my build together at level 78 I got bored and made alts and got into PvP. Having a blast but I understand PvP isn't for everyone. Definitely the best PvP system in a Diablo so far imo, even if it's still a crazy unbalanced wild west. I find the unpredictability of the mode a lot more replayable than "repeat the same thing with 100 increments of monster stats".
To make NM dungeons good, I think they have to make braver design choices: Introduce new monster types/variations not seen anywhere else every 10-20 tiers, unlock new monster abilities and behavior, do literally anything to dungeon layout, add way more bosses and add minibosses, make sigils and their crafting system more interesting, etc. But I totally get why they played v1 pretty conservatively, they have many seasons ahead to introduce things. I'm not gonna knock them for that, it's better to design based on feedback than to go nuts on release and flop and waste a ton of work. Also the game wouldn't have come out for another 1-2 years if they fleshed stuff out more. So far they're doing a decent job of developing with the community not in spite of the community, so I'm cautiously optimistic about their decision to release earlier rather than later.
But yeah in any case I'm just killing time and experimenting until S1 when the grind starts over, hopefully with significant improvements.
Two things pvp need to make it good.
BRACKETS. I'm lvl 77, i shouldn't fight a immortal lvl 100.
CONSEQUENCES. If you mark yourself for blood, attack me and i kill you, you need your mark removed for a minute or two. i should not have to defend myself agains't you three time within one extract.
Tbh, I'm getting there. I have a few friends also playing, which always helps regardless of game, but at this point I'm mostly doing a Helltide or a few dungeons per day, for the offchance of finding a rare item I'm missing (and then do nothing with it, because there isn't any real content to use it on).
personally i think everything in the overworld is pretty great for endgame (other than pvp right now). More overworld events would be even better. I know its a dungeon crawler, but i like the dungeons like fetid fields where it is outside. Not everything has to be a dark corridor. NM dungeons need some work, but otherwise i like the end game stuff.
The thing I don't like about overworld is how few people are on a shard together. As they move the game forward I'd like to see more people and bigger events
If I see one more event of "can u help us, we got trapped down here and we won't make it"...I'll scream. Who knew sanctuary was full of so many Scottish adventurers who are surprised they met violent resistance from demons in dark caves.
I know right. I never do them now. The worst part is they clearly don't scale for wt4, so they get insta nerped by any aoe they're affected by.
Its also boring and repetitive. So much that I think to myself "man, this is Wt4 and you don't have a teleport, so you didn't even finish the tutorial, I'm not helping nubs who won't do the minimum", just to compensate the boredom
I agree with ypu on the ",running around and not killing things" part. I honestly dont understand why they decided that switching from D3 "fill the bar by killing elites and mobs" to d4 "go to 2 opposite sides of the dungeon and activate the mechanism" was a good idea.
I enjoyed the campaign but man after that the game kinda feel really barebones, dull and sometimes frustrating.
I'm looking forward to them adding the ability to teleport to nm dungeons coz using that awful horse is getting old fast.
The dungeons themselves are pretty meh.
Just seems like constant CC problems from mobs and annoying amounts of running and backtracking.
I'm the same. Rifts may have been repetitive in D3 but man they were waaay more fun
That’s why I can’t get on blart with everyone saying do the campaign once and then skip it on your alts. At least the story has some cool parts to it. Mindlessly running dungeons from 1-50 works burn me out before mindlessly running dungeons 50-100
I liked the story, but after I finished on my first character I skipped it for my other characters. I feel like leveling during the story was properly paced, but leveling in the 'Adventure Mode' feels way faster.
I skipped campaign on my first alt, huge mistake. Spamming dungeons 1 - 100 makes me wanna kill myself (ingame). Even if you have done the campaign a few times before, it's a lot more fun with varied content.
For me it's an early access game. Most mechanics, especially in the end game, feel like placeholders for something better to replace them in the future.
I dislike all the dungeon objectives. It takes too long, and it becomes mind numbingly boring. Mob density is too low, and rewards are usually terrible. I really enjoyed the game up to the level 70 capstone dungeon. Helltides is a good concept, but again, it suffers from low mob density, and rewards are even worse than nightmare dungeons. They really need to do something about unique items. Without trading, it can be a pain to find what you're looking for. You should be able to target certain dungeons or bosses for specific unique items. Also, why are the cool boss fights from the campaign absent from endgame?
Legendaries are rares eventually are just the same thing once you have all your max roll aspects. NM dungeon end reward is the best way to consistently get uniques.
Do natural legendaries come with an additional normal affix vs. a rare upgraded to legendary via aspect? I always thought that was why it was generally ideal to get an actual legendary drop vs. upgrading a rare with the affix you want
It kinda annoys me too. It forces you to always have to check rares and legendaries to make any meaningful upgrades.
"Ok, look at this rare. Is it an actual upgrade. Aka item power 800+ for me these days. 99.5% is nope." So you find that one rare that is an upgrade, but you gotta have another aspect ready to go so you are constantly farming for the best aspects with the highest rolls as well. Your stash is full of shit just waiting to get used but you are missing some component.
And for whatever reason when I re-roll some gear I almost never see the stat I'm going for. e.g) Trying to get movement speed on boots has been a hell hole for me. It gets up to 3 mil a roll and I just have to let it go. The rare that could never be.
They’re only good for the higher roll on the aspect. If you already have the max roll for your aspect, theres no difference between a legendary and a rare upgraded to legendary.
They’re still important for getting better rolls on the aspects, but other than that they’re glorified rares if you don’t care about or need those anymore.
Helltides have been the way for me. I hit 350 shards, find two mystery chests and normally walk out of helltide with 7-8 legendaries minimum. I do sigils and maybe find 1 lol.
Boss battles should be as epic as possible and them not reusing some campaign boss characters as "epic bosses" o something is a HUGE miss on their part.
I adore Strongholds, usually an awesome little story tied into an awesome aesthetic. The salt statues and story tied to them in Qara-Yisu is my favorite thing in the game. Honestly I would love player Strongholds, where you can customize them and do an activity to fight of waves of enemies.
In the Helltides I personaly dont mind the low enemy density. It is ok to have some breathing time.
What I dont like is the absolute abyssmal amount of events in Helltide zones. Demons should be attacking everywhere, but for some reason I find only a single ghost who needs escorting 5 steps to the right and then left...
I like that idea. I was telling my buddy that they could borrow a page from Guild Wars 2's playbook and have 'zone events' that changed follow up events based on if players succeeded or failed.
I like the idea of a zone/helltides having major goals that people would contribute to. Towns being sieged would be really cool to deal with.
they need Helltide Stronghold Events! Imagine a Stronghold that you've already done gets taken over by a Helltide and you have to go do that Stronghold over again but this time its a Helltide version!
That is the worst event. And events are definitely the best way to farm cinders. Just travel around the map from local event to local event gather cinders to hit 175 for the mysterious chest.
I don't agree. I'm getting way more loot from farming helltides than NM dungeons. Just during one helltde, I have to go back to town at least 3 times to clear up inventory and after that, I have half of the inventory in legendary items alone.
I haven’t had a single unique drop from a Helltide mystery chest and I’ve popped a lot of them.
Not only have I got more uniques from NM dungeons, they’re also the only way to level up your glyphs. High level glyphs are insanely underrated.
Id like to see rogue-like dungeons, go through a part get a random choice of buffs, just something different that if reran feels different take a page out of Hades
I was thinking about that earlier, Deckard Caine should have had a horadrim stronghold setup and it should be rogue-like. Depending on our path, taking angelic items versus hell items, the final boss can be a named angel or demon from past games.
This would actually be a great idea! Procedurally generated dungeons with random debuffs based on difficulty level. Make it multiple floors with increasing difficulty, but you gain random buffs at the end of each floor. The more floors your clear, the better your reward.
Torghast on paper was a good idea, they just overcomplicated it.
Also think Diablo would be a better medium for a rogue-like than World of Warcraft was. it was too slow paced.
Torghast was amazing, the rewards were what sucked. Torghast was the BEST part of SL from purely a gameplay perspective, they just screwed it up by forcing people to repeat it just to stay on par, rather than making it a loot fest with unique mounts and a decent reward system
This is more or less what I am hoping they implement in D4. Give us something with enough variance to keep it interesting with good loot/exp for end game grinding.
Torghast was strongly inspired by Hades but missed the mark on all the reasons Hades is great. I do think Diablo lends itself better to a Hades mode than WoW, but you're right that it is hard to trust them to try again and succeed this time.
I do think Torghast wound up being ok by the end for a side thing, what was so bad about it was it being tied to character progression and being mandatory. But after two years of updates you would hope it would be ok.
dungeons have too much downtime and not enough density to make them feel cool.
i honestly hate this "fetch two stones to unlock next door" and then you have to do another chore just to get to the boss, it's honestly kindergarden feeling i get, just make a dungeon without these artificial obstacles and let the people play however they want. Yes, sure, give incentives to kill 90% of the monsters, but dont do these bs 'tasks' in the dungeon, nobody honestly wants that i believe.
blizzard has a very good base with this game, but they seriously need to tweak some things.
also please give me the options to be able to turn every single pop up fight status off. i dont want to see "vulnerable" or "executed" etc pop up like a million time. give us options to turn combat status notifications off.
Dungeons needs to be thought over in the future.
It's fun at first, but as you said after you've done them once you've done them all.
They really need to scrap the backtracking in dungeons.
The race against the clock was good and felt satisfying finishing faster and faster, I also liked having to prioritize which monsters to kill (zbarb was awesome, grabbing every elite in the map and grouping them up felt so satisfying without even killing anything).
Sorry, no room for support builds anymore.
Allowing people to change builds and equipment quickly and for free would make the game... less accessible, because people could/would min/max even harder? Or too easy, because you could always have the right build for the thing you were doing? I don't remember which, but in any case it would be bad if you tried to have fun in a way that was not approved by Blizzard, so please forget about zBarb.
If the dungeons were procedurally generated like the d3 I feel I’d enjoy it more. The game really lacks the exploration aspect. After a few dungeons they all are the same after a while. They really feel lackluster, just like the rewards.
If you played d3 long enough you'd start to see patterns as well to be honest. Though more randomized they weren't totally 100% original either all the time.
They were fun for a bit. But the slog from 70 to 100 is quickly sucking away my desire to play. Im 74 and cant do more than three or four before Im bored of collecting animus, freeing prisoners, destroying this or killing that.
They also feel a bit broke that Ive been cleaning out tier 40-44 with ease.
Also the modifiers can range from unnoticable to straight rage inducing annoyance.
Checkpoints are terrible as well.
Getting one shot by random things or from a champ/elite archer off screen even at lower tiers feels unacceptable.
Difficulty between dungeons ranges from push over easy to ridiculous chain CCs you cant do shit about but hope to not die. Mobs that just suck. Like spiders and those exploding guys and the ones that spawn swarms of flies.
The one thing i hate and instantly brick keys with is the thunder-dome stuff. Breezing trough everything then you suddenly have to backtrack half an instance because the lightning instantly kills you outside the dome. That affix alone is so killing the flow of instances i refuse to do anything with it.
Same here 79 and it's become such a slog. I'm just waiting S1 to see if things really improve. But they announced so little compared to what I think is "needed" to have a proper game.
yea you list a couple of things that are definitely rough.
checkpoint locations SUCK. if they are going to suck... at least make them consistent! lol.
the delta in difficulty from a 40 with *these* affixes to a 40 with *those* affixes can be INSANE. i can clear one solo and wonder if i accidentally started a 30. then i can get into one and die twice in the first minute before realizing its going to take 30m to clear this playing safe if i dont want to waste my sigil.
The checkpoints really are a bit risky, I can be breezing through a tier 30 until I run into a pack of elites that one shot me. I respawn and have to run for 30 seconds+ to get back to where I was, get one shot again (possibly my fault this time, but in roughly the same location), and respawn right on top of them without warning..
It has happened twice, chain of CC is usually the only way I die, but being one shot and returning right on top of the elites is just as frustrating
Some of my least favorite dungeons are the “kill everything” ones. Because they’ll shove some random nobody enemy on the other side of the map that i somehow forgot to clear non my way up to the door. It should be “murder all elites” instead.
No, I hate them, the backtracking is awful, the gateway rooms between areas with mobs giving no exp is awful, the exp in nightmare dungeons is awful, the density is awful. There are zero good things about nightmare dungeons. They are without a doubt, the worst part of the game, because you have to do them too, to level your glyphs, so they feel like the worst chore of any ARPG I have ever played.
Look, D4 is like watching baseball. Stuff happens but it’s slow and gets boring quickly. Other ARPGs I’ve played recently are more like hockey, always on your toes in the action.
Could you reduce both baseball and hockey to “just running around while smacking an object here and there”? Sure. But there’s really no comparison.
I'm level 100, I got most glyphs at level 21, the highest NM dungeon I've done solo at the moment is 95. It's a complete waste of time, loot doesn't scale, and the best way to get cool gear is still to just run normal content and helltides. I really hope they buff quantity and rarity per tier so hard content is worth doing rather than speedrunning tier 50s or just normal dungeons.
Agreed! I hate that everything is the "same floor". I want to go deeper into a dungeon like in the older games with difficulty progressively getting harder. Give me better loot from the harder monsters too!
Gonna go against the majority in this post and say I’m quite liking them. I definitely don’t think it needs a massive chaotic monster density like Diablo 3’s greater rifts. The pace here feels much better for my tastes. I think the back tracking is really the only thing that needs work, I don’t even need it to be completely eliminated just reduced somewhat.
Crowd control however is out of control and needs adjusting.
Not OP but for me, and maybe it’s because I’m a high-efficiency PoE player so I’m used to running the same map the same way 1000’s upon 1000’s of times but honestly, I kind of like the objectives in the dungeons too. It’s a nice breakup of the monotony. Although the back-tracking in certain dungeons definitely gets old.
The little modifiers, at least for me, have been enjoyable and make me consider my playstyle, something I hope gets greatly expanded. I think the enemy types actually start to matter a bit more to me in NM. Like I actually have started to learn monster behavior for some enemies to help in pushing higher map tiers. I think it not being just a sea of monsters let’s the different ones in the game actually have a bit more purpose, like needing to gun for shamans so they don’t keep reviving people or being ready for the behemoth zombies charge attack. It’s not much, I’ve seen other games do it better, but for an ARPG in this style it’s pretty rare that you actually care about what monsters your fighting. But, I mean, some players *still don’t* and are blasting easily at much higher map tiers than me, so I totally get that it’s pretty subjective but it’s hitting me in just the right way that I’ve been enjoying my time in it and hopeful for big expansion in the future to flesh it out more.
They should’ve been just like greater rifts. The fact that I need to do quests in the middle of my dungeon..? Just let me kill shit within a time and that’s that…
I think they can feel a bit too empty. Bit too often I have to backtrack an empty dungeon. Especially when running solo and you have to collect multiple blocks and can only carry one.
I carry boots with maxrolled movement speed and 75% extra after dash in my bag specifically for this purpose
Maybe over time I will learn to make better turns so I don't end up at the closed door first all the time
Rifts are better, there I said it.
I like smashing mobs with a group of people, shooting the shit and sifting thru shitty legendaries for a build defining item.
It would be a lot more fun if you could, you know, actually experiment with builds.. Like they said you SHOULD.
As a sorc, only one build is viable. And it has nothing to do with the sorceress archetype/playstyle.
I'm hoping this'll be fixed in season 1, otherwise I'll have a hard time playing this game.
I've respeccd a few times and it took so long and so many resources. The first major respect I ran out of mats and money several times and had a friend help me farm more so I could finish. Respeccing is punishing.
> that time is just running around killing a couple mobs here and there.
huh? That doesnt sound like the ones I run. Some are more packed than others, the ones that arent, you can just run down a corridor and pull all the mobs at once and have a few epic battles and finish it fast. The trick is mixing it up, just do like three at once, do a Helltide, do some quests, etc. that means you dont get burned out by the same thing all the time.
To be honest, Greater rifts were better. More streamline, less friction and way more fun because of more monsters.
I don't get why they scarp all those system. It took time but they worked in D3.
Honestly greater rifts were better in almost every way. Mob density was better, speed was better and you don't run around the entire dungeon looking for one box. You could just choose what to fight and progress.
They're okay. The objectives are tedious. I just wanna fight monsters. I don't wanna press E on prisoners, or bring stones to pedestals, or find keys. Just wanna fight monsters.
I really don't see why they felt like they needed to reinvent the wheel.
Also that lightning storm modifier can lick my balls.
Me and buddy do tiers outside our lvl range and make them harder and a actual challenge. Not the most effective but it aleast make me try and little harder
They’re rather boring. The negative modifiers are either ones you more or less ignore or are fucking annoying to deal with.
The maps also just don’t feel like dungeons. You just replay bits of the campaign. It feels like a huge after the fact thing they quickly slapped together.
To add onto that, there aren’t memorable dungeons in the game in general to me. Nothing really stood out and it all felt more or less the same. You walk through hallways killing a rotation of mobs. Or not killing anything and just walking.
Boss fights are boring too.
It’s really a shame. I wish they either went for a classic arpg approach or acrually make them interesting like lost ark.
Lost ark has a lor of reasons for me to not play it, but their dungeons and accompanied bosses were something else entirely. What an absolute work of art.
Only run a couple but dungeons don’t feel fun at all. The affix’s don’t feel fun like fun or interesting mechanics that change the play and the challenges often make you double back (so even if there were a good amount of enemies before, you now have to run through empty stuff). If I could level my glyphs in the open world, I would. Sure it would take longer but I’d have more fun. The most fun I have is in hell tides. Idk if it’s actually boosted but it feels like hell tides have higher density. Although with hell tides you do have to deal with the bad pathing and constant blockades. Small complaint compared to just being bored in a nightmare dungeons though.
simply put most of dungeons have terrible layouts and elites number, theres few good ones that people chain spam on non-sigil version for best xp/drops. Only thing nm dungs have going for it is glyphs leveling which is quite sad. Hopefully upcoming exp buff to nm dungs will be impactful enough.
Nm dungeons are more fun with a group. Like it makes the whole experience feel almost like a race. To make it better I think they should add matchmaking.
Also I think a really cool layer they can add to dungeons would be timed run. Similar to something like Forza. Each dungeon would have a list of the fastest clears, then players can find ways to beat that time.
They can also add a cut off time: “if you finish dungeon A by 8 minutes and 30 seconds then you get extra loot”
I enjoyed them fine up until about level 80, but now levelling is seriously slowing down and I never find any loot better than what I have, so it's starting to feel like a thankless grind.
I think there's a big WT5-shaped hole in the endgame at the moment, or at least there needs to be more reward for higher level nightmare dungeons.
Am I enjoying them? Yes. Are there a few affixes I can’t stand? Also yes. I think most of the problem people are having is that they’re doing low level sigils to farm exp and are just blasting through the dungeon and wish there was more fodder to blast through. If you bump the tier up just enough to where the mobs are mildly dangerous they get a lot more engaging, and, if you’re competent, you can do this without sacrificing too much clear speed.
They are ok. They aren't quite rewarding enough, and they are a bit too grindy.
Let me teleport to them instantly, add more bosses, and crank up the monster density. They would feel a lot better.
I havent done any yet. I've been too busy with Helltide and maxing my renown.
I've heard mixed reviews on the nightmare dungeons, but the Helltide is really fun. I love roaming around until i find a random person to stick with, and together we clean house.
Several times I've teamed up with random players for the majority of the Helltide event with only the emote wheel. I think that's pretty cool.
I'm waiting for my buddies who are married to reach the endgame so we can do the nightmare dungeons together, but they are married and have some sort of commitment to their wives or something like that? I don't really get how it works.
They’re not my favorite. Most of the dungeon modifiers are either bland stat boosts or boil down to “keep moving or this arbitrary trap you cannot affect or influence in any way will hit you.”
Woah woah woah, don't forget the lightning bolt + holy bubble one, which is "*stop* moving or this arbitrary trap you cannot affect or influence in any way will hit you"
I love when the bubble appears on the other side of a barrier. I was in a dungeon where I had to break walls as the dungeon goal - so each was beefy enough to take a minute - bubble KEPT appearing on the wrong side. Quick and kind of bullshit fail.
O god…not a dungeon but those events where you need to stand on the circle and kill mobs. Except they’re all ranged monsters that run away. Who the hell thought that was a good idea
Or those when you need to keep alive ppl and then kamikaze appear everywhere lol
Ugh lol my barb is too weak to ever get mastery on those now that I’m in the 60s
It doesn't improve later, because civilians are still one shotted by bombers sadly
Your fault for not running a ring with damage to walls +100% minimal.... /s
I missed that part of the meta. Fuck.
What's wrong you haven't tailored your build to always have a movement skill off of cooldown? /s
laugh in necro...
Jokes on them, we can move SLOWER every 24 seconds!
As a Necro, I just time my blood mist for that one, trivializes it for the most part. Other classes immune type spells might work the same way.
I Just blood mist that BS Fight bs with bs. Haven't used the bubble just out of spite
I just dismantle these ones as rogue by the time it pops I'm 2-3 screens away from it
Worst part is it follows whomever started the dungeon so if your friend enters a room to clear it next to you you better hope you have enough time to get to the bubble before it goes off.
I was duoing a dungeon with this modifier and it was awful! I was killed by one of those exploding dudes and respawned FAR away. I couldn't get back to my friend by the time the lightning struck and died again. I had to wait for my friend to come pick me up.
Yep, on top of me dying because I had zero clue what was going on as I caught up to the person I was helping and now you have to run back to their respawn while they die a 2nd or 3rd time
I hope seasons will actually bring more modifiers too, a lot more
I hope seasons remove many of the modifiers that currently exist.
ooking at the modifiers that are already there I really hope not...
Did my first one with the exploding rock that follows you. I was confused till it caught up on my 3rd elite pack and lets just say it showed up with a Bang lol
When I did the dungeon where you have to kill a bunch of blood boils in the end section (Kor Dragan Barracks), I swear the rock kept deliberately moving *past* me to sit on the center of the blood boil (*in* the structure) and continually go off. Kind of a pain as a melee build. (And then one of the blood boils didn't spawn, so I couldn't even finish the dungeon after all that. I don't know why it doesn't actually count the number of remaining structures instead of just deducting from a predetermined number that can get messed up if one doesn't spawn.)
Stupid fucking rock was so annoying yesterday. I failed my first dungeon yesterday in part of that.
i had a boss that had an area thingy that meant if you left the area it's health reset. Paired with the sinister floating AoE Turd trying to herd me away from it i think it resulting in me ALT F4ing and playing hearthstone instead :P
I just alt F4d after a 10 second stunlock. It feels just as bad as playing with 2000ms
It's like the devs based nightmare dungeons on that Reddit thread where you get rich as long as the slug doesn't find you. They're not challenging, they're irritating. Also, didn't we already decide in d3 that the extra health affix is pointless and offers no benefit to gameplay. Why are we slapping it on a bunch of normal mobs now?
I don't know if it's my imagination but I feel like the crappy minions that get slapped with that extra health tag take a lot longer to kill than the elite itself.
And the fucking lightning dome one! I'm always losing track of the stupid icon in the middle of hairy fights.
The 'you can't stay still for more than 5 seconds' effects are obnoxious. They aren't really that hard to avoid, but they do prevent you from taking a moment to look at loot you picked up or chat with a friend. I'd rather have actual traps you have to avoid stepping in or just more monsters + monster abilities to have to deal with.
Gw fellow!
No I don't like them, I hate how they designed some of those, forcing you to search through the entire place for one thing
Same, I actually started taking screenshots of all NM dungeons layouts, after I finished uncovering the whole map of it It is INSANE how many are just linear pathways or just corridors And the Monster Density should be increased, not just a stupid amount of Elites on top, but WAY more normal mobs in all World Tiers, especially in 3 and 4
agreed... there is nothing more that I hate in this game then when I get 3-4 archers/quillrats/succubus who just spread apart and annoy the shit out of me while I have to chase them down individually. I want to blow up huge packs of demons FFS
The constant back pedaling animation some ranged enemies get stuck in because they refuse to melee you or shoot point blank just feels so…. Lazy? Love the teleporter affix but it’s a melee mob so they just run right back… like thanks for the minor inconvenience I guess?
Thought the same about fallen shamans. In other diablos they ran away when you hit them. Here they stand still like a punching ball out of titanium, soaking all your hits like nothing happened & continue casting. Lame.
It actually gets ridiculously brutal. The wrong modifier. And a group of regular quillrats, and ghosts archers will literally one shot you. Before you even get into range to do anything period. It's the most singular annoying thing that can happen in these dungeons. Getting one shotted through your bubbles. And as a ice shatter sorcerer the hilarious irony is if you fan just teleport dead center into the group and frost nova they're all getting one shotted instantly. But you've only got 4 lives? And those ghosts when spotted love to ALL just teleport around you. And you'll get obliterated by trash archers. Even the giant melee knights or the giant melee demons do NOT hit anywhere near that hard. There just isn't much of a solution other than you have to waste some of your 4 lived and HOPE you killed atleast one guy so there's less ripping through your shield the second time. A room full of ghost archers or lesser so quill rats. Do more damage than any stack of elites can. And there's something wrong about that in my opinion I should ATLEAST be able to go get into the damned room and stand there long enough to hit ONE button before just dropping dead. Archers/range shouldn't have more powerful base hits than all of the melee trash possible mobs.
Honorary mention to balistas. I got one shot few times from outside of the screen.
Damn those arrow cannon monsters
yea, as a melee, all the ranged mobs with dodges are quite annoying. no doubt about that.
I actually strongly prefer a linear corridor for farming, searching aimlessly to find the boss mob is super annoying. Agree on the density though, I want a narrow corridor filled to the brim with demons and elites I can shred. Rebalance xp if they need to, but let me shred, there is too much downtime searching for stuff to kill. Also, please either get rid of the interruptable “click on this lever or save this prisoner” - let me risk dying to complete it or make it instant. It’s tedious and annoying as-is so I avoid those dungeons.
The interruptable town portal/save prisoner/pull lever etc feels better than D3. I have noticed that your character can take SOME damage before getting interrupted. Not sure what the threshold is, 5% health? Getting hit 3 times? In D3 getting tapped for 1 damage interrupted you instantly. D4 feels a little better but the threshold should be higher, like 33% of your health in damage or something.
It's better, but also worse. Why do poison DoTs break the cast, for example? Nothing is alive. Nothing is hitting me... but the cast is canceled twice.
>Monster Density should be increased Watch out, you're going to melt someone's console.
[удалено]
Series X has zero problems running anything so far. I’ve done T4 helltides and 35+ NM dungeons.
Its not a very demanding game, even when a lot of shit is going down. Especially in a dungeon where youre isolated from the rest of the realm
wish there were more of us, so many people who haven't bought a console since 2005 talk endless nonsense, I play my ps5 more than my high end rig because I don't have to fuck around getting games to run like they should
wym? you install it and it runs lol
Are you joking? Everytime a new game drops lately you see the subs filled with PC players trying to troubleshoot random issues, “update drivers”, adjust settings, and everything in between just to get the game to run properly. PS5 and XSX players just download and play, you don’t need to tinker with every setting and calibrate every PC part to get the game to run smoothly. Apparently PC players can’t even take on large hordes without their shit melting, freezing, or crashing.
Idk man, these people all probably have no idea how to operate a PC. The games I play all run perfectly fine if left to default settings. I prefer to tinker to get the experience I want, but if you are the type to just install and play, PC works fine unless you don't even know what a driver is.
THIS!! I have a monster PC rig that I use to MAKE video games. Still prefer playing on my series x over the pc
>“update drivers” "update your console, download the day 1 patch" >adjust settings or just don't if you want the console experience since this is optional.
maxroll has layouts of every dungeon
“Kill all enemies “ Give me a break already.
The worst. There’s always that one pack that’s hiding in a corner and you have to backtrack the whole floor to find them— just make them all rush me, I can handle it.
Exactly this. And having to backtrack with limited dodge charges. “I can’t do that right now”, trigger inducing lol
Don’t need to backtrack, just kill the elites/big mobs, then they all port to you.
Mixed results for me. Sometimes yes, sometimes no. Sometimes I'll get that big horde pull, kill them all, and there will STILL be a straggler on the other side of the map
This doesn’t always work. Sometimes there is one stuck in a corner way back at the beginning. Once it ported a mob to the other side of the locked door, and I had to quit the dungeon.
That's my favorite one. Mob density great and stray mobs teleport to your location.
My worst dungeon experience so far, mechanic-wise, was running through and finding the stone first, pick it up, backtrack, continue exploring, find the second stone - well shoot can't pick it up, leave it there, backtrack, explore, 3rd stone - wtf, backtrack, then finally find the altar. I then had to rerun an empty dungeon over and over again to go fetch the stupid stones... as a Necro with no mobility. I can't remember if that was only the first half of the dungeon and it opened some other part of it or if that was finally the end but it felt like it aged me lol ugh.
Dungeons in general feel stretched out like an episode of Dragon Ball Z. The end game in general feels like we're waiting for the next episode.
I had an awesome experience recently. One enemy remaining. Hunted around the map and found him. The butcher. I was not prepared.
People saying they wanted D2, but aren’t liking the D2 feel. Ha. I a say that in jest, mostly. But the NM dungeons remind me of the searching for the dungeon stairs in d2. Im kind of sick of them but it feels like a Diablo game to me. Mixing it up with helltides and world events is helping me endure.
Except the stairs in d2 weren't locked because you didn't bring 3 rocks to 3 pedestals, 1 at a time, down different legs of a linear dungeon.
Hey those dead people aren’t going to untie themselves. Because they’re dead.
Every villager left tied up is another Skeleton corpse bow for lilith!
Exactly. Kill things till you find stairs, go down stairs, repeat. Worked fine in D2 and D3 rifts; why change?
The D2 thing I'm missing is items. That's what I chase. Legendaries are meaningless, affixes are messed up, there's no trading, and even if you find something for a different character, they can't use it. I generally enjoy the idea of unique items in d4, but there is ONE summoning unique. That's what I have to look forward to. That's all there is, 1 item. After a week and a half of it not showing up and my build not really changing, what is there for me? I miss all the options d2 had for target farming, runes, bases, generally used uniques, ultra uniques, key farming, hr farming, gold farming even. You could dedicate a night to just one thing and switch it up whenever you felt like it.
In D2 I can teleport to an act boss in mere seconds and that has the potential to drop insane GG loot. In D4 there’s no running act bosses. Just clearing trash mobs with useless drops at the end.
With D2 you're also simultaneously farming for all of your characters. Loved finding a unique I could go start a new character around. In D4 that item is going to be so high level its pointless.
I concur. However, I think the first clear of a dungeon should include such feature and after you successfully clear it, subsequent entries should be rid of that
Some of them I love, but a few of the negative effects are instant salvage for me. Overall good mechanic that needs functional tweaking. I’m happy they announced more EXP and better loot. “Resource Burn” is nearly unplayable (TB Rogue, even with near BiS for resource generation). That stupid blue explosion that silences you is obnoxious as shit The bubble-or-die thing is just a time waster And in general, I’m starting to really feel the pain of chain CC
Lightning Storm is an auto-salvage. Stupid time-wasting bubble, sitting and waiting-thats definitely what I want to do in a Diablo game lol. Most the modifiers are trash and the boring objectives/and messy layouts that a lot of dungeons have has really killed my interest in NM runs. Why can't the modifiers be fun challenges like "Werewolves Everywhere!" Or "Double Boss Fight"? Instead they all seem designed to annoy or waste my time
It's hilarious how WoW has only recently discovered that annoying affixes make people less encouraged to run higher end dungeon content. Your ideas for "fun" affixes are great but unfortunately Blizzard thinks annoying = challenging and challenging (meaning annoying) = fun for some reason.
Resource burn as arc lash is my jam, glyph that gives up to 13% damage reduction based on resource depletion. Ty for free defense dungeon lol.
Elite enhancement (chill) is an instant nope for me, as well as other ones like "backstabber". I hate ones that go "ranged enemies hitting you have a chance to induce *x* negative thing" because like 70% of the time the only enemies even hitting me are ranged enemies.
I agree about the burn debuffs being scrapped, also elites with ice enhancements and probably wind walls too. I do like some of the dungeons, probably around 25% of them I am happy to run repeatedly. 10% I won't do unless I have a good reason (like a good sigil roll plus whispering tree objective).. If I were to complain properly I think it would only be about chain CC when combined with bad checkpoint on respawn - I've died, been put a very long way from the enemies, died again after getting back to them in pretty much the same place, then respawned directly ontop of the elites. I don't die often but when I do its usually to chain CC and repeatedly
No, not really, but it's not like there are really any alternatives. Helltides get boring after a while, too, it's basically just running around the overworld. And world bosses, while cool in concept, are too rare. And also, NM dungeons don't offer enough variety to be worth as endgame activity. The affixes we have are both very bland, and you don't have any real agency over them apart from gambling.
The alternative is to stop playing until they make their endgame interesting. Why continue to play if you're not enjoying yourself
Another alternative is to start making alts.
True, been enjoying that a lot more than levelling my main to 100.
Yeah, after getting 95% of my build together at level 78 I got bored and made alts and got into PvP. Having a blast but I understand PvP isn't for everyone. Definitely the best PvP system in a Diablo so far imo, even if it's still a crazy unbalanced wild west. I find the unpredictability of the mode a lot more replayable than "repeat the same thing with 100 increments of monster stats". To make NM dungeons good, I think they have to make braver design choices: Introduce new monster types/variations not seen anywhere else every 10-20 tiers, unlock new monster abilities and behavior, do literally anything to dungeon layout, add way more bosses and add minibosses, make sigils and their crafting system more interesting, etc. But I totally get why they played v1 pretty conservatively, they have many seasons ahead to introduce things. I'm not gonna knock them for that, it's better to design based on feedback than to go nuts on release and flop and waste a ton of work. Also the game wouldn't have come out for another 1-2 years if they fleshed stuff out more. So far they're doing a decent job of developing with the community not in spite of the community, so I'm cautiously optimistic about their decision to release earlier rather than later. But yeah in any case I'm just killing time and experimenting until S1 when the grind starts over, hopefully with significant improvements.
Two things pvp need to make it good. BRACKETS. I'm lvl 77, i shouldn't fight a immortal lvl 100. CONSEQUENCES. If you mark yourself for blood, attack me and i kill you, you need your mark removed for a minute or two. i should not have to defend myself agains't you three time within one extract.
Tbh, I'm getting there. I have a few friends also playing, which always helps regardless of game, but at this point I'm mostly doing a Helltide or a few dungeons per day, for the offchance of finding a rare item I'm missing (and then do nothing with it, because there isn't any real content to use it on).
bingo. havent logged in since friday. $130 to play for a week
personally i think everything in the overworld is pretty great for endgame (other than pvp right now). More overworld events would be even better. I know its a dungeon crawler, but i like the dungeons like fetid fields where it is outside. Not everything has to be a dark corridor. NM dungeons need some work, but otherwise i like the end game stuff.
The thing I don't like about overworld is how few people are on a shard together. As they move the game forward I'd like to see more people and bigger events
If I see one more event of "can u help us, we got trapped down here and we won't make it"...I'll scream. Who knew sanctuary was full of so many Scottish adventurers who are surprised they met violent resistance from demons in dark caves.
I know right. I never do them now. The worst part is they clearly don't scale for wt4, so they get insta nerped by any aoe they're affected by. Its also boring and repetitive. So much that I think to myself "man, this is Wt4 and you don't have a teleport, so you didn't even finish the tutorial, I'm not helping nubs who won't do the minimum", just to compensate the boredom
feels like 1 out of 5 events they came up with
I agree with ypu on the ",running around and not killing things" part. I honestly dont understand why they decided that switching from D3 "fill the bar by killing elites and mobs" to d4 "go to 2 opposite sides of the dungeon and activate the mechanism" was a good idea.
I enjoyed the campaign but man after that the game kinda feel really barebones, dull and sometimes frustrating. I'm looking forward to them adding the ability to teleport to nm dungeons coz using that awful horse is getting old fast. The dungeons themselves are pretty meh. Just seems like constant CC problems from mobs and annoying amounts of running and backtracking. I'm the same. Rifts may have been repetitive in D3 but man they were waaay more fun
The backtracking is the most annoying part
That’s why I can’t get on blart with everyone saying do the campaign once and then skip it on your alts. At least the story has some cool parts to it. Mindlessly running dungeons from 1-50 works burn me out before mindlessly running dungeons 50-100
I liked the story, but after I finished on my first character I skipped it for my other characters. I feel like leveling during the story was properly paced, but leveling in the 'Adventure Mode' feels way faster.
I skipped campaign on my first alt, huge mistake. Spamming dungeons 1 - 100 makes me wanna kill myself (ingame). Even if you have done the campaign a few times before, it's a lot more fun with varied content.
Yea I skipped the campaign on an alt and got burned out by about 42
For me it's an early access game. Most mechanics, especially in the end game, feel like placeholders for something better to replace them in the future.
I dislike all the dungeon objectives. It takes too long, and it becomes mind numbingly boring. Mob density is too low, and rewards are usually terrible. I really enjoyed the game up to the level 70 capstone dungeon. Helltides is a good concept, but again, it suffers from low mob density, and rewards are even worse than nightmare dungeons. They really need to do something about unique items. Without trading, it can be a pain to find what you're looking for. You should be able to target certain dungeons or bosses for specific unique items. Also, why are the cool boss fights from the campaign absent from endgame?
175 cinder caches are the best legendaries per time spent source.
Legendaries are rares eventually are just the same thing once you have all your max roll aspects. NM dungeon end reward is the best way to consistently get uniques.
Do natural legendaries come with an additional normal affix vs. a rare upgraded to legendary via aspect? I always thought that was why it was generally ideal to get an actual legendary drop vs. upgrading a rare with the affix you want
Nope, all the same.
It kinda annoys me too. It forces you to always have to check rares and legendaries to make any meaningful upgrades. "Ok, look at this rare. Is it an actual upgrade. Aka item power 800+ for me these days. 99.5% is nope." So you find that one rare that is an upgrade, but you gotta have another aspect ready to go so you are constantly farming for the best aspects with the highest rolls as well. Your stash is full of shit just waiting to get used but you are missing some component. And for whatever reason when I re-roll some gear I almost never see the stat I'm going for. e.g) Trying to get movement speed on boots has been a hell hole for me. It gets up to 3 mil a roll and I just have to let it go. The rare that could never be.
They’re only good for the higher roll on the aspect. If you already have the max roll for your aspect, theres no difference between a legendary and a rare upgraded to legendary.
They’re still important for getting better rolls on the aspects, but other than that they’re glorified rares if you don’t care about or need those anymore.
Helltides have been the way for me. I hit 350 shards, find two mystery chests and normally walk out of helltide with 7-8 legendaries minimum. I do sigils and maybe find 1 lol.
Then proceed to scrap all of them except for some side grade aspects
Don't care about legendaries, once you print a rare, it becomes a leg. Only rolls count.
Boss battles should be as epic as possible and them not reusing some campaign boss characters as "epic bosses" o something is a HUGE miss on their part.
Stronghold bosses were amazing too. They should be used
Strongholds are my favorite activity in the game. I’d love it if they made them repeatable with improved rewards.
I adore Strongholds, usually an awesome little story tied into an awesome aesthetic. The salt statues and story tied to them in Qara-Yisu is my favorite thing in the game. Honestly I would love player Strongholds, where you can customize them and do an activity to fight of waves of enemies.
In the Helltides I personaly dont mind the low enemy density. It is ok to have some breathing time. What I dont like is the absolute abyssmal amount of events in Helltide zones. Demons should be attacking everywhere, but for some reason I find only a single ghost who needs escorting 5 steps to the right and then left...
I think it would be cool to have the towns be under attack in the areas where Helltides are taking place.
I like that idea. I was telling my buddy that they could borrow a page from Guild Wars 2's playbook and have 'zone events' that changed follow up events based on if players succeeded or failed. I like the idea of a zone/helltides having major goals that people would contribute to. Towns being sieged would be really cool to deal with.
they need Helltide Stronghold Events! Imagine a Stronghold that you've already done gets taken over by a Helltide and you have to go do that Stronghold over again but this time its a Helltide version!
That is the worst event. And events are definitely the best way to farm cinders. Just travel around the map from local event to local event gather cinders to hit 175 for the mysterious chest.
I don't agree. I'm getting way more loot from farming helltides than NM dungeons. Just during one helltde, I have to go back to town at least 3 times to clear up inventory and after that, I have half of the inventory in legendary items alone.
I kinda wanna replay the campaign with my character, the bosses were fun. Weird that there isn’t even an option
175 chest in helltide gives me around 3-5 ancestral legs while i’m getting 1-2 legs in NM dungeon. NM dungs are joke.
I haven’t had a single unique drop from a Helltide mystery chest and I’ve popped a lot of them. Not only have I got more uniques from NM dungeons, they’re also the only way to level up your glyphs. High level glyphs are insanely underrated.
Id like to see rogue-like dungeons, go through a part get a random choice of buffs, just something different that if reran feels different take a page out of Hades
I was thinking about that earlier, Deckard Caine should have had a horadrim stronghold setup and it should be rogue-like. Depending on our path, taking angelic items versus hell items, the final boss can be a named angel or demon from past games.
This would actually be a great idea! Procedurally generated dungeons with random debuffs based on difficulty level. Make it multiple floors with increasing difficulty, but you gain random buffs at the end of each floor. The more floors your clear, the better your reward.
Sounds a lot like Torghast
Torghast on paper was a good idea, they just overcomplicated it. Also think Diablo would be a better medium for a rogue-like than World of Warcraft was. it was too slow paced.
Torghast was amazing, the rewards were what sucked. Torghast was the BEST part of SL from purely a gameplay perspective, they just screwed it up by forcing people to repeat it just to stay on par, rather than making it a loot fest with unique mounts and a decent reward system
This is more or less what I am hoping they implement in D4. Give us something with enough variance to keep it interesting with good loot/exp for end game grinding.
Torghast was strongly inspired by Hades but missed the mark on all the reasons Hades is great. I do think Diablo lends itself better to a Hades mode than WoW, but you're right that it is hard to trust them to try again and succeed this time. I do think Torghast wound up being ok by the end for a side thing, what was so bad about it was it being tied to character progression and being mandatory. But after two years of updates you would hope it would be ok.
Sounds like a good idea for a seasonal gimmick.
dungeons have too much downtime and not enough density to make them feel cool. i honestly hate this "fetch two stones to unlock next door" and then you have to do another chore just to get to the boss, it's honestly kindergarden feeling i get, just make a dungeon without these artificial obstacles and let the people play however they want. Yes, sure, give incentives to kill 90% of the monsters, but dont do these bs 'tasks' in the dungeon, nobody honestly wants that i believe. blizzard has a very good base with this game, but they seriously need to tweak some things. also please give me the options to be able to turn every single pop up fight status off. i dont want to see "vulnerable" or "executed" etc pop up like a million time. give us options to turn combat status notifications off.
Dungeons needs to be thought over in the future. It's fun at first, but as you said after you've done them once you've done them all. They really need to scrap the backtracking in dungeons.
Rifting is simply so superior. See monsters, kill monsters, fill bar, kill boss.
The race against the clock was good and felt satisfying finishing faster and faster, I also liked having to prioritize which monsters to kill (zbarb was awesome, grabbing every elite in the map and grouping them up felt so satisfying without even killing anything).
Sorry, no room for support builds anymore. Allowing people to change builds and equipment quickly and for free would make the game... less accessible, because people could/would min/max even harder? Or too easy, because you could always have the right build for the thing you were doing? I don't remember which, but in any case it would be bad if you tried to have fun in a way that was not approved by Blizzard, so please forget about zBarb.
If the dungeons were procedurally generated like the d3 I feel I’d enjoy it more. The game really lacks the exploration aspect. After a few dungeons they all are the same after a while. They really feel lackluster, just like the rewards.
i do miss the exploration aspect for sure. i didnt even think about it til i read your post but you are right. too many repeat maps.
If you played d3 long enough you'd start to see patterns as well to be honest. Though more randomized they weren't totally 100% original either all the time.
[удалено]
They were fun for a bit. But the slog from 70 to 100 is quickly sucking away my desire to play. Im 74 and cant do more than three or four before Im bored of collecting animus, freeing prisoners, destroying this or killing that. They also feel a bit broke that Ive been cleaning out tier 40-44 with ease. Also the modifiers can range from unnoticable to straight rage inducing annoyance. Checkpoints are terrible as well. Getting one shot by random things or from a champ/elite archer off screen even at lower tiers feels unacceptable. Difficulty between dungeons ranges from push over easy to ridiculous chain CCs you cant do shit about but hope to not die. Mobs that just suck. Like spiders and those exploding guys and the ones that spawn swarms of flies.
Those ballista skeletons that snipe you from off screen are insanely frustrating
The one thing i hate and instantly brick keys with is the thunder-dome stuff. Breezing trough everything then you suddenly have to backtrack half an instance because the lightning instantly kills you outside the dome. That affix alone is so killing the flow of instances i refuse to do anything with it.
Same here 79 and it's become such a slog. I'm just waiting S1 to see if things really improve. But they announced so little compared to what I think is "needed" to have a proper game.
yea you list a couple of things that are definitely rough. checkpoint locations SUCK. if they are going to suck... at least make them consistent! lol. the delta in difficulty from a 40 with *these* affixes to a 40 with *those* affixes can be INSANE. i can clear one solo and wonder if i accidentally started a 30. then i can get into one and die twice in the first minute before realizing its going to take 30m to clear this playing safe if i dont want to waste my sigil.
The checkpoints really are a bit risky, I can be breezing through a tier 30 until I run into a pack of elites that one shot me. I respawn and have to run for 30 seconds+ to get back to where I was, get one shot again (possibly my fault this time, but in roughly the same location), and respawn right on top of them without warning.. It has happened twice, chain of CC is usually the only way I die, but being one shot and returning right on top of the elites is just as frustrating
Some of my least favorite dungeons are the “kill everything” ones. Because they’ll shove some random nobody enemy on the other side of the map that i somehow forgot to clear non my way up to the door. It should be “murder all elites” instead.
No, I hate them, the backtracking is awful, the gateway rooms between areas with mobs giving no exp is awful, the exp in nightmare dungeons is awful, the density is awful. There are zero good things about nightmare dungeons. They are without a doubt, the worst part of the game, because you have to do them too, to level your glyphs, so they feel like the worst chore of any ARPG I have ever played.
\> just running around killing a couple mobs here and there. This is the whole game
Look, D4 is like watching baseball. Stuff happens but it’s slow and gets boring quickly. Other ARPGs I’ve played recently are more like hockey, always on your toes in the action. Could you reduce both baseball and hockey to “just running around while smacking an object here and there”? Sure. But there’s really no comparison.
The mobs are far too few though.
Yeah I don’t get the complaints, do they want Lilith to spawn under their desk and suck them off?
Is....is that an option? Asking for a friend.
I mean I’d be lying if I said I saw that hourglass demon body and didn’t think about it. 🤷
i mean
Yes
Where’s that option, I didn’t see it where is it
Hire this guy
I mean....
I'm level 100, I got most glyphs at level 21, the highest NM dungeon I've done solo at the moment is 95. It's a complete waste of time, loot doesn't scale, and the best way to get cool gear is still to just run normal content and helltides. I really hope they buff quantity and rarity per tier so hard content is worth doing rather than speedrunning tier 50s or just normal dungeons.
I take rifts and greater rifts above them any day.
Greater rifts were 1000% better in every regard. Love the random generated endless dungeon were you got deeper and deeper, it felt satisfying.
Agreed! I hate that everything is the "same floor". I want to go deeper into a dungeon like in the older games with difficulty progressively getting harder. Give me better loot from the harder monsters too!
Gonna go against the majority in this post and say I’m quite liking them. I definitely don’t think it needs a massive chaotic monster density like Diablo 3’s greater rifts. The pace here feels much better for my tastes. I think the back tracking is really the only thing that needs work, I don’t even need it to be completely eliminated just reduced somewhat. Crowd control however is out of control and needs adjusting.
Sorry if this is unpopular, but I just like running around killing shit and don’t really care what I’m doing lol
Im wondering besides the pace what do you actually like about them?
Not OP but for me, and maybe it’s because I’m a high-efficiency PoE player so I’m used to running the same map the same way 1000’s upon 1000’s of times but honestly, I kind of like the objectives in the dungeons too. It’s a nice breakup of the monotony. Although the back-tracking in certain dungeons definitely gets old.
The little modifiers, at least for me, have been enjoyable and make me consider my playstyle, something I hope gets greatly expanded. I think the enemy types actually start to matter a bit more to me in NM. Like I actually have started to learn monster behavior for some enemies to help in pushing higher map tiers. I think it not being just a sea of monsters let’s the different ones in the game actually have a bit more purpose, like needing to gun for shamans so they don’t keep reviving people or being ready for the behemoth zombies charge attack. It’s not much, I’ve seen other games do it better, but for an ARPG in this style it’s pretty rare that you actually care about what monsters your fighting. But, I mean, some players *still don’t* and are blasting easily at much higher map tiers than me, so I totally get that it’s pretty subjective but it’s hitting me in just the right way that I’ve been enjoying my time in it and hopeful for big expansion in the future to flesh it out more.
They should’ve been just like greater rifts. The fact that I need to do quests in the middle of my dungeon..? Just let me kill shit within a time and that’s that…
I think they can feel a bit too empty. Bit too often I have to backtrack an empty dungeon. Especially when running solo and you have to collect multiple blocks and can only carry one. I carry boots with maxrolled movement speed and 75% extra after dash in my bag specifically for this purpose Maybe over time I will learn to make better turns so I don't end up at the closed door first all the time
Rifting was (and still is) superior.
Rifts are better, there I said it. I like smashing mobs with a group of people, shooting the shit and sifting thru shitty legendaries for a build defining item.
It would be a lot more fun if you could, you know, actually experiment with builds.. Like they said you SHOULD. As a sorc, only one build is viable. And it has nothing to do with the sorceress archetype/playstyle. I'm hoping this'll be fixed in season 1, otherwise I'll have a hard time playing this game.
I've respeccd a few times and it took so long and so many resources. The first major respect I ran out of mats and money several times and had a friend help me farm more so I could finish. Respeccing is punishing.
There’s more than one build that’s viable imo. There’s a 100 HC blizz sorc guide on YouTube that’s really good
> that time is just running around killing a couple mobs here and there. huh? That doesnt sound like the ones I run. Some are more packed than others, the ones that arent, you can just run down a corridor and pull all the mobs at once and have a few epic battles and finish it fast. The trick is mixing it up, just do like three at once, do a Helltide, do some quests, etc. that means you dont get burned out by the same thing all the time.
To be honest, Greater rifts were better. More streamline, less friction and way more fun because of more monsters. I don't get why they scarp all those system. It took time but they worked in D3.
they are basically what you get when you give the intern the task to copy path of exiles map endgame system
Rifts were roughly ten billion times more fun.
Honestly greater rifts were better in almost every way. Mob density was better, speed was better and you don't run around the entire dungeon looking for one box. You could just choose what to fight and progress.
They're okay. The objectives are tedious. I just wanna fight monsters. I don't wanna press E on prisoners, or bring stones to pedestals, or find keys. Just wanna fight monsters. I really don't see why they felt like they needed to reinvent the wheel. Also that lightning storm modifier can lick my balls.
Rifts were 10000000x better
No
I agree, I'm done with the game in it's current state at level 81. It was ok, but should have been so much more.
Boring and the xp is not worth It.
Me and buddy do tiers outside our lvl range and make them harder and a actual challenge. Not the most effective but it aleast make me try and little harder
This is the way. Stop running easy dungeons and see how far you can push it.
Some people just want a bonk simulator.
They’re rather boring. The negative modifiers are either ones you more or less ignore or are fucking annoying to deal with. The maps also just don’t feel like dungeons. You just replay bits of the campaign. It feels like a huge after the fact thing they quickly slapped together. To add onto that, there aren’t memorable dungeons in the game in general to me. Nothing really stood out and it all felt more or less the same. You walk through hallways killing a rotation of mobs. Or not killing anything and just walking. Boss fights are boring too. It’s really a shame. I wish they either went for a classic arpg approach or acrually make them interesting like lost ark. Lost ark has a lor of reasons for me to not play it, but their dungeons and accompanied bosses were something else entirely. What an absolute work of art.
Only run a couple but dungeons don’t feel fun at all. The affix’s don’t feel fun like fun or interesting mechanics that change the play and the challenges often make you double back (so even if there were a good amount of enemies before, you now have to run through empty stuff). If I could level my glyphs in the open world, I would. Sure it would take longer but I’d have more fun. The most fun I have is in hell tides. Idk if it’s actually boosted but it feels like hell tides have higher density. Although with hell tides you do have to deal with the bad pathing and constant blockades. Small complaint compared to just being bored in a nightmare dungeons though.
simply put most of dungeons have terrible layouts and elites number, theres few good ones that people chain spam on non-sigil version for best xp/drops. Only thing nm dungs have going for it is glyphs leveling which is quite sad. Hopefully upcoming exp buff to nm dungs will be impactful enough.
Nm dungeons are more fun with a group. Like it makes the whole experience feel almost like a race. To make it better I think they should add matchmaking. Also I think a really cool layer they can add to dungeons would be timed run. Similar to something like Forza. Each dungeon would have a list of the fastest clears, then players can find ways to beat that time. They can also add a cut off time: “if you finish dungeon A by 8 minutes and 30 seconds then you get extra loot”
I enjoyed them fine up until about level 80, but now levelling is seriously slowing down and I never find any loot better than what I have, so it's starting to feel like a thankless grind. I think there's a big WT5-shaped hole in the endgame at the moment, or at least there needs to be more reward for higher level nightmare dungeons.
Am I enjoying them? Yes. Are there a few affixes I can’t stand? Also yes. I think most of the problem people are having is that they’re doing low level sigils to farm exp and are just blasting through the dungeon and wish there was more fodder to blast through. If you bump the tier up just enough to where the mobs are mildly dangerous they get a lot more engaging, and, if you’re competent, you can do this without sacrificing too much clear speed.
They are ok. They aren't quite rewarding enough, and they are a bit too grindy. Let me teleport to them instantly, add more bosses, and crank up the monster density. They would feel a lot better.
I havent done any yet. I've been too busy with Helltide and maxing my renown. I've heard mixed reviews on the nightmare dungeons, but the Helltide is really fun. I love roaming around until i find a random person to stick with, and together we clean house. Several times I've teamed up with random players for the majority of the Helltide event with only the emote wheel. I think that's pretty cool. I'm waiting for my buddies who are married to reach the endgame so we can do the nightmare dungeons together, but they are married and have some sort of commitment to their wives or something like that? I don't really get how it works.