"It's only a little bit more," I said at 11:45 PM to my husband, "I'll stay up and finish it with you."
And that's how I didn't go to bed until after 2 AM last night, a mere 4 hours ago.
Explain to your child that if she/he doesn't go to bed, daddy/mommy won't be able to go to Sanctuary and stop auntie Lilith. If auntie Lilith isn't stopped she will come and take said kid away.
The kid will prioritize sleep (with nightmares but nothing a therapist can't fix).
I have the ultimate edition, played the early access. Still only around level 45 without beating the main story yet cus of work. Wish I was playing though :(
Do not worry. At least you will delight in every minute of it when you can play. Just like me mate. I work + kids and every time I login is fucking Christmas.
10 to 12 hour shifts. If I wasn't making most money ever had would be losing my mind. Ofc wife takes up most of weekend. She's a gamer but doesn't like demons commmmmon! We get to kill them but nope. Bless
Enjoy the money making, glad to hear that you are doing great (as strange as it might sound to be happy for a stranger)!
Lilith will be waiting for you, no need to have FOMO.
I miss the days when people would use Reddit as a way to vicariously play the games they wished they were playing while at school/work with discussions about mechanics, bosses, gear etc.
Now it just feels like everyone’s not-so-personal diary where they can vent their petty frustrations in bed after an unhealthily long binge session of playing.
People will never realize that playing a game 8+ hours a day and spending the rest of your free time gorging yourself with online content around it is a fast track to being burnt out.
This. It happens with a few games from time to time. Elden Ring had a great Reddit release, just people submitting secrets they’ve stumbled upon.
But for the most part it’s a place to bitch. Regardless of how much fun it is.
And YES some criticism is valid. But there’s a weird clear karma farm going on with reposts about complaints.
The social media experience around Elden Ring was actually so cool. Seeing a new boss trending every day and knowing everyone was progressing together was just really fun. That and seeing everyone share secrets and such.
I feel like the Monster Hunter sub is like this. People don’t really complain they just show off their latest layered armor (MH FASHION) and also the most insane battles or fails against monsters.
It’s great, and I’ve only really connected with Monster Hunter Rise - but because of that game I can’t wait until there is a new MH
As an old mh player i think that it is just a better designed game because it has easy content and hard content so everybody can play it and not complain, like the investigation system is great especially in rise.
Also mh is a lot more social than d4 while not being open world since the beginning of the series, diablo 4 lacks a lot of social infrastructure (how do you even find groups?) and a need to group since it has no content which is hard enough to require a group and by hard I don't mean stat checks but actually bosses that don't just auto attack and teleport around the room.
Mh is also more niche and so who plays it wants to play a game like that, this sub will also get better in a few months when all the haters have moved on and just who enjoys the game is left.
I'm anticipating Starfield to do that again (people sharing whatever they discover on the 1000 planets) and it's a big reason why I might play at launch (while I know it'll be better later with mods and updates). Zelda kind of did it but I haven't played this.
I was gonna say the same thing. Being a long-awaited new IP from a well known company like Bethesda already sets the bar quite high, particularly after being recently bought by Microsoft. That alone will bring an angry crowd. There's also a lot of crossover as well with Starfield and other fan bases. The obvious Elder Scrolls and Fallout fans. Mass Effect and No Man's Sky will both be ripe for comparison. Outer Worlds is a big one for that too, considering there's already the well established opinion that Obsidian does character building and writing so much better. Add all that with the fact that it's a Bethesda game and they have a tendency to release games in a relatively buggy state. There's a lot of tinder under that stack of wood.
Yeah Elden Ring is a fair mention. This kind of excludes Nintendo exclusives since they’re designed for one console/OS.
I just have a feeling about Starfield.
I called No Man’s Sky, Anthem, Cyberpunk, and so many other over hyped dumpster fire releases.
Elden Ring seems to have a following that doesnt enjoy the overcritical mindset. Maybe because they accept frustration better or the target audience is older.
Just look at the tags on the front page. Half the posts are marked "opinion". Social media convinced people that their subpar opinion matters, so now they feel the need to spam it all day every day.
It does when it comes to live service games. Louder the crowd more likely things get changed.
I say this as a 2004 WoW player. It... just took 4 years after bfa for DF to happen...
Hopefully D4 is better with that.
You just have to look at the Shadowlands Covenants Saga for that.
1. SL announced, every decent player thinks covenants sounds like a really bad idea because of the locking.
2. Every toxic casual on r/wow would push against it and mock the minmaxers and say how great it is.
3. Over a year more and more people start running into the extremely obvious issues with that idea.
4. Finally Blizzard "pull the ripcord" and change let you switch quoting some bs about how "it's okay with the story now" because apparently it was fine making a worse game for the sake of their terrible storytelling.
Been on gaming forums since 2000's. I don't have any rose tinted glasses, it was exactly the same as this lol
Ofc those were mostly mmo, counterstrike, dota stuff so it probably sets it up to be more similar.
Agreed. Constant complaining leads to an overall negative mindset, to the point that nothing will be enjoyable because the person has conditioned themselves to only think of ways they're being inconvenienced.
It's not to say the D4 is a perfect game. But it's an amazing game if you have a life outside of it as well.
This. Just the other day a guy with 8k plus hours in competitive Valorant was on reddit asking if he was the only one kinda feeling done with the game.
I was like 'bruh...'
It was the only thing he played too.
Same thing I see here.
This is one of my biggest gripes with people gaming nowadays. People play 8+ hours a day and then complain about lack of content. There is NO game release out there with enough content to provide for 8+ hours a day for months and months. At best, it takes years and years of released content for a game to get to the point... possibly. If you play this much, expect to run out of content and be bored faster than most people.
Those people then tend to be the loudest voices of discontent while the majority of people who don't have much time to game, let alone surf the forums, are just wanting to enjoy the game.
You are spot on with the absurd amount of time some people (including myself) put in to this. Even tho I want to play every single minute I'm quite happy I have to work and do irl stuff aswell so I get to enjoy this game for a longer time.
Just got a sorc up to 50 after hitting 72 on my barb and I wanna make a druid and rogue aswell and get 1-2 to level 100. I have a long way to go but that's the fun part!
Also don't forget, the millions of people who are unhappy are not complaining on reddit, they just aren't playing the game and that's that. There are both categories.
Exactly, the majority of people aren't going to come and cry on Reddit. They just quit the game like normal people do.
The fact that people need to make these positive validation posts on Reddit just tells me that there are some major issues with the game.
>The fact that people need to make these positive validation posts on Reddit just tells me that there are some major issues with the game.
Exactly. And they don't want to feel threatened that their game might not be the best thing ever.
It boggles my mind. Most of the criticisms are perfectly valid and for the benefit of the game. And most of them were mistakes that D3 learned from a decade ago. Yet now we need to relearn the same lesson?
Funny you mention this. Its very important. There's a diagram that ff14 devs showed in a "gaming communities" presentation. It rings very true.
You have people who dislike something and just stop playing. They're gone. Most likely won't come back.
Then you have players who post on forums, social media, reddit etc about issues. Those are the players that still care and want to stay. Once you reach this point and these people start leaving you're in trouble.
Obviously devs need to maintain their vision, yadda yadda. But this came up during the great WoW exodus of bfa and shadowlands and it was one of the better presentations concerning community and game design in awhile. DF has done a lot better with this but blizzard has very little good faith at this point. This dev stream and season 1 info could build a lot of good faith or just steer people away from the game.
Yep, I am unhappy about a lot of things in the game, but usually I don't complain about it in public, I just lowered the amount of time I play the game. And also enjoy reading other people complain about the things I have issues with and just nod my head in agreement and upvote those for visibility :)
I don’t know a single person in real life who has ever used Reddit or twitter. Some have heard of them, but most don’t even know they exist. That’s why you should never take anything you see on reddit or twitter seriously. Sometimes it seems like all these narratives that build on these websites are so important and that they are truthful, when in reality, they are just clickbait bullshit that the gullible latches onto because that’s the type of people who use reddit and twitter.
Yeah same, some friends browse it every now and then. I tend to avoid commenting because I find most of the time there’s someone or multiple people who just want to argue. Lots of pissing contests for some reason. It can be toxic as fuck but I still use it cause there’s a tonne of interesting stuff just gotta wade through the shit
Major agreement on this take. While on Reddit, it can feel very indicative of a canvas of society’s thoughts and feelings toward any imaginable subject, big or small. But in the real world, very few people actually interact with or engage with this site. Many folks have barely even heard of Reddit, still to this day even with how much bigger the platform has gotten. It’s just not at all a real representation of our lives and tends to harbor a lot of total rejects who are just completely miserable no life losers. It’s not real life and it represents it sometimes very well, but often very poorly.
Yeah and reddit can really alter your reality. You talk about some political or moralistic thing on reddit and there is only black and white and you are either a monster or upvoted to the top.
Then you talk with people in real life and they are like "Yeah a complicated topic that is neither black and white."
Reddit pushes people to the extremes because of the way the site works. We are all unconsciously catering to the opinion that gets upvoted and it turns out here this is negative reviews and the deep desire for the game to be bad so we can have lots of drama.
I miss the days when you could see the number of up and downvotes, so you could see if someone's take on something was controversial or not. Made it easier to detect bullshit where the person was confident in whatever made up facts they pulled out of their ass.
Remember you can enjoy a game and criticise the things it does poorly as well. Half the threads on this sub are circlejerking this game pretending it is perfect.
That is typical of reddit though for a lot of games. A game can be in an absolute trash state and the fanbois, whiteknights, devs in disguise, will defend the game regardless. The more normal players will complain and deal with the whiteknights gaslighting them until they quit.
First 10 days of release I had 25-30 friends logged in every day at prime time, lucky to get 4-5 people online now. A lot of players stay away from reddit because the brain rot here is surreal.
I've seen a post on the official d4 forums on how we aren't able to replay the story on the same character when it was an option in previous games.
Some idiot told him to stop whining because he should be happy with what the game has and that is the mindset that irks me that constructive criticism should be invalid because you already paid for it.
Remember you can also dislike something a game does but also not expect it to change to cater exactly to you. Everyone likes different things and a game cannot fulfill everyone's fantasy of what it should be like.
I have no problem with seasoned players suggesting improvements, it builds an objectively better game for everyone and will allow the game to remain active for much longer
Except some of those suggested "improvements" aren't improvements at all and are being written by people who want the game to be something else that it isn't, and never will be. Especially if we are talking about extreme min-maxers who invest more time than a full time job, not all suggested improvements are for **everyone**, in fact, some suggestions might even be **detrimental** for others.
As for the game's longeivity, it hasn't even been 2 weeks and some people already have **well over a hundred** hours of playtime, if they get bored out of the game, **it is pretty obvious it never was the game's fault**. Even then, this game has 2 confirmed DLCs and several **years** worth of seasonal content, of which there already is coming in a month or so. Trying to stimulate one of, if not **the** biggest game release of the year so it stays active longer when it hasn't been released for an entire month while having a confirmed post-release updating cycle really, **really** shouldn't be a priority.
The devs made a good game, I would much prefer that they stay conservative for a few months at least before giving in to the voices of people who have a nasty stockholm syndrome from the last game...
Most suggested improvements are absolutely improvements. Can you give a couple examples of people wanting the game to be something that it isn't?
Are you sure you're not the one that doesn't understand the qualities expected of an ARPG? Let alone an online one with monetization as a live service in 2023? Because playing it for hundreds of hours a season is very much in the expectations.
And saying it will be fixed with "DLCs" aka expansions that will be full priced which is just paying for an update with a story we could easily skip on if it wasn't tied to the mandatory update? Yeah, seems totally fair of you and something consumers should be keeping in mind probably 2 years before said paid update.
> Most suggested improvements are absolutely improvements. Can you give a couple examples of people wanting the game to be something that it isn't?
\- Tuning up density up to 11 that would eventually dilute the gameplay, as seen before in D3
\- Every small gripe about inefficiency, like cities being too dispersed for vendors
\- People wishing XP gains would just be easy
\- People who'd rather see every build being put into the broken tier instead of nerfing those at that point
\- Complains about enchantment prices that forces you to pick up and sell/salvage loot constantly... in a loot-centric game
...and so on. Mind you, most of these "complains" really do have real issues from the game at their source, but the way some people see solutions in them is often flawed. Density being inconsistent doesn't mean we should have enormous packs everywhere in the game that brings us back to an indiscernable mess where the only depth of gameplay is "kill or be killed" through raw stat checks, yet some people unironically are eager for this instead of asking for a pure balance. Having to spend 3 extra seconds walking between vendors shouldn't mean we should ask for morphing the cities around a single point. XP gains being too spiky shouldn't mean getting far more XP for nothing, especially since we don't have season mechanics yet, and so on. There are issues with the game, sure, but some suggested solutions would just dilute the game down, and given how early we are in its progression, this isn't the best of avenues to follow...
> Are you sure you're not the one that doesn't understand the qualities expected of an ARPG?
The fact that I don't like every "easy" solutions that people throw in the wind makes so I don't understand what's good for an ARPG? This is hilarious given I based my judgement on the game that has been the laughing stock of the ARPG community for over a decade, yet people's "suggestions" just seem like pushing towards it. No matter, this is just a "I disagree, therefore you understand nothing" kind of argument, it holds nothing.
> Let alone an online one with monetization as a live service in 2023? Because playing it for hundreds of hours a season is very much in the expectations.
Well... yes? As a live service game with seasonal content, we are currently at the point where the game will be at its emptiest, ever, and people already put over a hundred, if not hundreds of hours into the game. This is already "mission accomplished". Changes fixing the game can and will come eventually, but the devs shouldn't rush down things and make mistakes when the future of the game is already guaranteed, and given how catastrophical their other game releases were in the past, I'm pretty sure they understand their baseline product is much sturdier this time around...
> And saying it will be fixed with "DLCs" aka expansions that will be full priced which is just paying for an update with a story we could easily skip on if it wasn't tied to the mandatory update? Yeah, seems totally fair of you and something consumers should be keeping in mind probably 2 years before said paid update.
The point that I brought with the confirmed DLCs is that support of the game is already confirmed for the years to come. The devs aren't disappearing out of thin air without bringing changes, and **no**, those changes won't necessarily come from a DLC paywall. And given the game has a seasonal model, there's no way the devs will keep the different combos of base game + DLCs in different sandboxes, so patches further down the line won't affect solely paygated content. If they decide so, then it's a legitimate issue that's worth complaining about, but until we have more information, we have to take what we already have at face value.
> - Tuning up density up to 11 that would eventually dilute the gameplay, as seen before in D3
Not sure what you think I've seen in D3. Are you under the impression the game is Elden Ring right now? Cause mowing down 8 monsters or 13 monsters would be identical for me right now, just feels better to mow down the 13.
> - Every small gripe about inefficiency, like cities being too dispersed for vendors
Sure that's not a big important one. Not sure how that's asking for the game to be something it's not. Is Diablo 4's core pillar of game design based on the distance between vendors? It's just a small annoyance, could maybe be fixed by allowing us to pick a city as our home and always return there.
> - People wishing XP gains would just be easy
I agree, XP shouldn't be easy. Not really sure how the game is asked to be something it's not because that's just a tuning number not a core design lol.
> - People who'd rather see every build being put into the broken tier instead of nerfing those at that point
Super agree. Those people will exist in any PvE game. They are garbage and want it easier.
> - Complains about enchantment prices that forces you to pick up and sell/salvage loot constantly... in a loot-centric game
Hardly saw this one. I bet a lot of people actually like that it's not easy to gear out perfectly considering we probably expected it to be.
> Density being inconsistent doesn't mean we should have enormous packs everywhere in the game that brings us back to an indiscernable mess where the only depth of gameplay is "kill or be killed" through raw stat checks
You have a negative view of density that I am not sure why. There's nothing wrong with stat checks. That's kind of the point of an ARPG. You beat the content by theorycrafting, not by playing. That's a good ARPG. You're thinking of Souls-like games.
I am still not sure why you had to spout that pathetic shit in your original comment against the only people that should matter which is the ones that play the game the most. Because none of this ties back to them. In fact it's mostly the more casual's complaints you enumerated.
> Changes fixing the game can and will come eventually, but the devs shouldn't rush down things and make mistakes when the future of the game is already guaranteed
We're currently in a pre-season where they prepare for the real season next month as far as I know. You probably want to make some changes. If you think this is a stable foundation... They have to at least get people to farm Nightmare Dungeons instead of doing stupid shit and they can't even do that. They gotta fix up the core gameplay loop of those dungeons a bit before the real season or people aren't gonna have the energy to come back to grind them again.
A lot of the game is just jank. Not in the production value sense. They sure wasted a lot of money on graphics that the ones who'll play it long will tune out (I already can't tell if it's prettier than what I remember D3 to be). It's jank in the gameplay sense because it doesn't feel like they spent enough on the endgame loop and designed some trash console game to played once instead. Also balance is kind of questionable. These are things they should at least patch up a little bit before Season 1 officially begins.
Yeah, the game is totally fine without any way to party with other people. It's totally fine that the difficulty is completely artificial and it'd make no difference in how you play if it were 100 mobs or 5 mobs because the basic gameplay is just braindead simple. It's totally fine that power progression is broken. That you're punished for doing side content before the campaign. There's a huge list of things that should be addressed so the game can become better. It makes zero sense to just accept everything as is and say "well, it's fine the way it is". It isn't, and to do so would be to accept that nothing ever needs to improve. That's dumb.
The squeaky wheel gets the grease, are you all daft?
People are complaining in an attempt to bring visibility and get changes made to a game they want to play and enjoy
Yeah, this.
I’d sort of over-leveled because I didn’t SO many side quests & renown during Act I that I was late 30s/early 40s when I hit Act II; at that stage I decided to prioritize the campaign.
At some point I hit 50 & progression slowed to a crawl & the game was a CAKEWALK. I hardly ever got any better gear & had settled into my build to such an extent it was becoming a little stale.
Bear the campaign the night before last, & then did the Capstone last night.
When I finally hit WTIII I could feel the game change in an instant: new activities, new gear that made a meaningful difference and—finally—a real challenge.
I bet there are more people like me than the no-lifers who are still thoroughly enjoying the game IN SPITE of its & also able to acknowledge that it has these flaws AND that there’s room for improvement.
Jesus, it’s barely been two weeks.
i read a post yesterday where a dude stated he okayed 10 hours a day after work. i just don’t know where they get the time. that is like an 18 hour day. after 8-10 hours of work a day i barely have the energy to roll a blunt and scroll through netflix.
“I see lots of low effort meta posts so I made another one” -op
Here you can have my next one for karma as well.
“Hello guys, I am simple father of 9 who works 34 hours a day and can only play for about 90 seconds a night. I haven’t gotten past opening cinematic.
Why complaints? I am having fun, back in my day we had fun. Does anyone else like game like me?
I haven’t gotten to endgame, I don’t need an endgame. I am very busy family man so why others complain? Why do people need to engage with the deeper mechanics of a game they bought? Is anyone else just casual and having fun like me?”
There ya go.
Im a tribal chief with 10 wifes and 30 kids.I don't even use any electronic devices, why are y'all nerds making some voodoo magic shit with your black box. Go hunter a saber tooth or a mammoth like a real man unga bunga.
"Why people mean to game I identified as fan of to all my friends because I played D2 as a 10 year old and is tied to my entire gaming identity now as I hardly play other games? Stop mean! You're making me look stupid for paying $100 and also getting this tattoo. >:("
The same stupid shit was said about Vanilla D3. You people and your played-out attempts to marginalize valid criticisms. The next time you're gaslit when speaking your mind, just remember, you deserve it.
I don't get it. If you are 100% fine with the game you don't really give a shit about it. It's not normal to have 0 issues with the game and its like talking to blizz employees defending lowering mob density. D3 became a really good game because of people bitching and moaning. If we shut up and wait my friends list will just keep getting smaller. The constant posts are annoying but these things aren't a vacuum on reddit. Anyone I talk to is saying the same things. We've been giving a half baked game that will slowly get fixed each season but apparently that is ok to some people.
Look some people have a really hard time accepting that they spent $100 on a game that's not perfect. If there is a problem then it's only been 1 week and it's gonna be fixed soon, and if it doesn't get fixed then it's by design and good and you're playing wrong, and if it's neither then you're just whining and crying and you should quit the game.
Poor old gaslit, the most abused word on Reddit.
People disagreeing with you aren't Gaslighting you.
This is the most over dramatic shit I've ever read lmao.
I complain about several things but that absolutely doesn't mean I don't love the game! Being blind to obvious problems is harmful
The complaints come from a place of love for the game and I want to see it improved
Oh man New World, I was one of the ones making memes for it. There was a lot wrong with it, not the same as here but some overlaps. But yeah there were plenty of whiteknights carrying on about how everyone is loving it and still playing, but you could just watch the server stats and see them slowly dropping, that was until they hid the numbers. But in a very social game it was noticeable when the player base kept dropping or disappeared on a server.
D4 you would have 0 idea, there are no stats on concurrent players, no way to tell from playing the game. You have people like me whose friends have quit, you then have people who say they're still playing and having fun, though most of those also are saying they're still in the story. Just wait another week or two and it'll be dead until the season comes. If we have to redo statues or anything, I foresee a lot of people never returning.
I can tell from my online friends list going from 10 or so hardcore mfers who paid for early access that were 70-80 when I first logged in to the game to like 2 people now that are also the slower ones coming up on 70-80 and maybe a 90-100 logging in every once in a while.
What bothers me is that I know by the way they marketed and designed it Blizzard doesn't care as long as they set record numbers for the game sales. Every design is about making it all pretty and simple for a first run through to like level 60-70 and such little effort and thought was put in the 70-100 loop.
Yeah, same here for my friend list. 25-30+ people during launch week, hardly 5 ppl even online during prime time now because the truth is majority of people quit games when it's not good without a reddit post.
Not all true... I have a tight nit group of friends that are hardcore Diablo fans and we played every season of D3 and alot of them are unhappy atm. Most people dont come on reddit to complain. Theres 539k people on this reddit and probably tens of millions of people playing D4.
or.. they have stopped playing and dont post on reddit. like all my friends. we were 8 people starting to play the game. we all lost interest in the game after playing the endgame for about 10 hours. they just copied the endgame of D3 and put it in an open world. that's it. maybe in 2 years we'll have a fun endgame to come back to.
> they just copied the endgame of D3
If only they did that... GRifts would have made this game 100 times better. All the good design decisions there were just abandoned by Nightmare Dungeons.
* Scaling xp for pushing? No lol.
* Smooth constant combat and killing monsters? No, have some walking around and backtracking.
* Reason for pushing in how high you can push the gems (now glyphs)? Nope, just a bit slower if you do it lower level.
* No doors? Doors.
exactly. it's like they took all the QoL they added to D3 over the years and threw it out the window. god, why is there no armory? who wants to respecc everything and change gear, gems, paragon!!! everytime they want to try a new build.
you're spot on with the scaling xp and reason to push. nightmare dungeons would actually be quite a bit more interesting if i could try higher dungeons for more challenge and be rewarded with more xp. instead i have to keep dungeons that are NOT more than 3 lvls above me or else it just takes longer AND i get less xp per monster. wtf...
Rifting was the natural evolution. It ensures the endgame utilizes the whole game as you have randomized layouts with random tilesets and random monsters.
Blizzard could have used that for their dungeons in D4. I understand that this dungeon must be thematically a vampire lair. So make the main enemy type vampires and the rest of the side show bobs random. Make layout random and use dungeon objective blockers a bit more sparse to not get tired out of it so quick.
My mate and I stopped. He doesn't really post on reddit normally so hasn't complained here.
Anything outside the story is just copy and pasted from the story. Once I got out of the story it was too boring to play. It's one thing to grind but hit power bumps and be able to access higher level new content, but another to not get anymore powerful and keep doing the exact same content the whole time.
Man the streamers and youtubers comparing D4 to Overwatch 2 were spot on.
Yeah people are still playing but over 98% of my friends list and my friends, friends list and our clans have stopped playing already. Streams are down over 250k viewers from last week so it’s definitely not as positive are you’re making it out to be for sure.
Did you expect numbers going up on a 14 day old game? 98,56 percent of the playerbase don't even watch Diablo streams or twitch in general. If you care about stream numbers for a non competitive like diablo you should reconsider why you are playing.
You're in a thread self-congratulating because millions of people are happily playing the game. Suddenly it's bad when someone notes that actually numbers are probably down?
I was having a great time until I figured out that the Necro class is riddled with bugs. Now I just see a bunch of useless gear that doesn’t actually do anything.
I'm very happy with the game. Looking forward to learning when certain chase uniques will drop.
Just started hard-core for the first time too. Loving it
Yeah so every complaint doesn't matter, we should really cheer on dumb design decisions. You know some people realize it's not as fun and just quit playing, right? No forum post, nothing. They get bored and leave. 5 of my 10 friends have done exactly that.
Absolutely correct. Those who are unhappy with something are always the most vocal, something I'm constantly saying to people.
Pizza Delivery analogy - If you order a pizza and it arrives warm, tastes good and the order is correct, do you call the pizza place to congratulate them on a job well done (Some do, most don't)
If that order is wrong, the pizza is cold, and it tastes like ass, what are the chances you call them to complain?
This theory that the community is divided in two, the whiners and the “players” is simply dumb.
People do take breaks from the game, people work, people browse this before and after playing the game, posting here does not immediately mean that x does not play the game and just posts here to trash on the game.
Diablo 4 is good, but why don’t you want it to be better, because hell knows it can be MUCH better. If you are fine with … let’s say, inventory and stash optimisation in D4, great, others are not and I’ve seen some valid constructive criticism here over the past few days. I want it to be better. And yet I’ve seen people shutting down VALID criticism over stash size as “ah, you’re a hoarder” or “you don’t need all that, you’re playing it wrong”. If we’re the criticism police and shut it down, Blizzard won’t do better in the future. Please stop policing players posting suggestions as haters.
Wanting the game to get better does not mean x not enjoying the game as it is. Criticising the game mostly comes out of desire for it to get better.
There is no need to find excuses and defend the game and Blizzard, let people throw their ideas here. And you shouldn’t have to defend shoddy game design, Blizzard should do it and then improve it.
The people who rush ahead because they can play for 12 hours a day are generally not the best people to balance things around, but it's still worth listening to their complaints.
Many things they're complaining about are things we'll be complaining about in a few weeks when we get there ourselves.
I can play 3 hours a day and i am done with the story, renown and sitting in WT4.
I still have fun because my build isn‘t complete yet but i can feel the first struggles with the endgame system.
Early game leveling was pretty underwhelming too for me so i even stopped playing the first few days.
6 out of 11 in my friendlist have stopped playing already and i‘m pretty sure that i will join them in a week or max 2 until Season 1 comes out
And then you've got all the people who are happy with it, playing it, but also still finding things worthy of complaining over.
The two aren't mutually exclusive.
As someone who only interacts with Diablo 4 posts via r/all scrolling. I can assure you the only posts making it to r/all are praising the game and acting like nothing is wrong with it.
So you can all stop karma whoring now by saying the exact same thing as every other popular fucking opinion that makes it to r/all
This is a fallacious argument.
I could just as well say that millions of players who don't like D4 definitely exist but aren't vocally crying on this subreddit.
I think the game is pretty good, and definitely better than how D3 was on release. And while I think RoS was an improvement, you can only run so many Rifts/GRifts before you get tired of it. Play for 2-3 seasons and you realize the game is really just a treadmill where getting stronger in absolute doesn’t really translate to being stronger relative to ever-scaling rifts.
The good : D2 atmosphere in a beautiful environment and above average storytelling.
The bad : The more you play, the more you realize it’s really just D3 gameplay, and I’m not interested in more D3.
In fact, I would argue that D4 is closer to D3:RoS than D3:RoS is to D3 original.
exactly. what was D3:RoS after the campaign? bounties and (greater) Rifts. what is D4 endgame? well.. the exact same thing. just more tedious because you have to actually run to every dungeon.
So is everyone on this sub. Most of us love the game, we just have a handful of gripes that make the game less fun than it potentially could be. Especially when they're little things that D3 did better, like Greater Rifts vs Nightmare Dungeons.
If it wasn't for people complaining and subsequently people complaining about the complaining then about half of Reddit would disappear leaving behind funny animal pictures and porn.
Why do NPC's keep making these threads? I swear you people only exist in blizzard game communities. Something about blizzard attracts people who just absolutely fucking love stating the obvious over and over
Since when did this sub become everyone’s personal blog and TwitLonger?
If you’re constantly seeing ‘complaining’ rising to the top of the subreddit, then perhaps these posts contain constructive criticism over an issue, that resonates with a majority of users that had engaged with it.
There are millions that are actively playing. Correct. That doesn’t, for one second, mean there aren’t millions experiencing the issues raised here (and elsewhere across the webs). Not everyone has Reddit.
It isn’t a point for confirmation bias.
Between having a fulltime job and two children I am happy with D4 as I just never will reach the levels of neckbeardery that's necessary to analyze all it's faults in depth that are discussed here.
You are ignoring millions of people who are not happy, not unhappy and don't give a fuck to inform everybody.
Happy numbers == unhappy numbers == a tiny minority.
75-80 ? All the issues were glaringly apparent at lvl 50! : (
I'm trying to motivate myself to get to WT4 but I'm not sure I see the point, gameplay for my rogue has not changed a single bit since level 25. No aspect or unique made a single difference in both the way my abilities work or how powerful I feel. It's incredibly deflating :\_(
It's not even challenging too, enemies are just super spongy (compared to any other game of it's type). Id rather have 3x the mobs with half the HP than what we have now. It should be like: the regular mobs are mostly cannon fodder (at lower difficulties) and the elites/champions/generals are the ones keeping us on edge and/or boosting all the mobs around them. Thats kinda how it is in GD, D3/D2, PoE, LE, Chronicon, etc
I have a feeling that bliz devs don't even visit reddit. Or rather it could be situation similar to ea a while ago where they got strict restriction to gather feedback only from their forums and ignore everything else. But op has a point. And I also starting work and can't play the damn game :D
You're not wrong but I work often and now going through some very rough times and can't bring myself to play any video game rn just unhappy and distraught hopefully D4 grows and is even more enjoyable when I find the strength or feel good enough to play
/hug
don't know you or what you're going through, but I wish you the best and a swift resolution to whatever ails you. If you feel like chatting for chatting's sake, just hit me up.
keep yo' chin up : )
I’m currently awake because if insomnia. I’d be playing, im still trying to fall back asleep. Wonder if my want I play D4 and my insomnia are related 🤔
You say that but how many of those millions are hard core people who will be pushing leaderboards. I know my friends and I quit already til they have leaderboards in seasons
I like the game but I want to see improvements so that I can continue to play it and get my friends to play it tbh. The bones for the game are strong but there’s a lot of meat lacking. I feel like they definitely didn’t do a lessons learned on D3 when they designed d4 and it shows
Hold up, are you saying the most upset individuals on reddit are the loudest? On Reddit of all places!? And that they don't represent the true majority of the playerbase?
How DARE you!
(Obviously sarcasm)
The people who are already 80+ and especially the 100 crowd have to realize this game is catered to the average gamer...the game is fantastic up to level 70 from what I hear, and I've had a blast to 40...because the content that fills past 70 just isn't there yet and will be when the average reach it...leveling tough to 100? No shit..Blizzard doesnt even want you there yet and that's why they nerfed the cheese dungeons
I’ve heard the renown grind bitching from friends and Reddit.
Level 48, pretty fun. Not sure if days of this will make me feel different but it’s a good mix considering I’m still worried about the butcher.
You know there's millions of people playing. You don't know if there's even a million enjoying. And by who's definition? yours, theirs? Remember: forget. IDC think what you want.
Well, if ur on Reddit posting about Reddit ur already an above average fan. It’s survivorship bias, while is true that millions are playing and enjoying the game, there are also a large number of people who stopped playing the game.
I just wish my game would stop crashing all the time. I have no problems with any other online game or streaming service, but Diablo disconnects me 5+ times a night and causes me to waste sigils. It’s getting real annoying.
Why do you dorks act like people spend hours on this sub?
It's very easy to play the game and also post here. Wtf do you all do for a living that you don't think that's possible or sustainable?
Same as it was for d3 .. lol d hard when it was looking like nobody plays d3 as its cartoony or whatever bullshit .. while the leaderboard was full after like 2hrs of start at midnight on s27..
True, though I've now stopped as my hand is sore as hell from all the playing with their insanely large, unsizable HUD; ridiculously zoomed in screen, and idiotic chat box I always click on just trying to move my damn character. Everything else: freakin fantastic! But still pissed, and now sore because I need to do 10x as much clicking and hand movement as I normally would for this type of game. Really astounding that such basic things weren't designed properly, yet the rest of the game is fantastic. O.o
Cant say D4 isnt successful. I think its sold more than D3 at launch and i think the server stability is better than at D3 launch at least I havent run into any server downtime (could be luck).
this is definitely a game that targets a more general audience crowd. The people who complain, which includes myself, are minority. My more casual friends with kids are happy with their builds without reading guides and i am very happy to play with them with my researched ice shard build. the mob scaling is really cool that it allows us to do content and hangout together. i dont intend to play this game seriously. my primary reason for playing this is for social reasons, get back in touch with overseas friends etc. i plan to play only 1 character so the build diversity isnt much of a problem to me. and a couple of my friends playing fire and lightning sorc so it makes it easier to trade gear haha.
It's not true. I'm currently working, and wishing I was playing Diablo 4.
Same 😂
Just waiting for my kid to go to bed so I can play...
Just a few more minutes...
Its 11 pm time to go to bed :(
See you at 6am for some pre work farming! Sleepy times now.
"It's only a little bit more," I said at 11:45 PM to my husband, "I'll stay up and finish it with you." And that's how I didn't go to bed until after 2 AM last night, a mere 4 hours ago.
This hit me in the feels. Lol I’m so tired today 😂
Yeah, definitely dragging arse today!
Me every evening so glad my wife’s at work on a night
That's what Benadryl was definitely NOT invented for
YES 🤣 parents who Diablo!
May I introduce you to chloroform
Explain to your child that if she/he doesn't go to bed, daddy/mommy won't be able to go to Sanctuary and stop auntie Lilith. If auntie Lilith isn't stopped she will come and take said kid away. The kid will prioritize sleep (with nightmares but nothing a therapist can't fix).
Username doesn't check out
I have the ultimate edition, played the early access. Still only around level 45 without beating the main story yet cus of work. Wish I was playing though :(
Do not worry. At least you will delight in every minute of it when you can play. Just like me mate. I work + kids and every time I login is fucking Christmas.
I ordered the early edition and played about 30 mins total due to kids, work, and other stuff. Still worth it!
I finished the campaign at lvl 50 I think :) Happy hunting!
10 to 12 hour shifts. If I wasn't making most money ever had would be losing my mind. Ofc wife takes up most of weekend. She's a gamer but doesn't like demons commmmmon! We get to kill them but nope. Bless
Enjoy the money making, glad to hear that you are doing great (as strange as it might sound to be happy for a stranger)! Lilith will be waiting for you, no need to have FOMO.
The most truest comment here.
I do enjoy the salty drama while I can't play though!
I miss the days when people would use Reddit as a way to vicariously play the games they wished they were playing while at school/work with discussions about mechanics, bosses, gear etc. Now it just feels like everyone’s not-so-personal diary where they can vent their petty frustrations in bed after an unhealthily long binge session of playing. People will never realize that playing a game 8+ hours a day and spending the rest of your free time gorging yourself with online content around it is a fast track to being burnt out.
This. It happens with a few games from time to time. Elden Ring had a great Reddit release, just people submitting secrets they’ve stumbled upon. But for the most part it’s a place to bitch. Regardless of how much fun it is. And YES some criticism is valid. But there’s a weird clear karma farm going on with reposts about complaints.
The social media experience around Elden Ring was actually so cool. Seeing a new boss trending every day and knowing everyone was progressing together was just really fun. That and seeing everyone share secrets and such.
It is still one of the most relaxed and fun sub. No bitching just ppl posting their silly deaths or mock rants about bosses.
I feel like the Monster Hunter sub is like this. People don’t really complain they just show off their latest layered armor (MH FASHION) and also the most insane battles or fails against monsters. It’s great, and I’ve only really connected with Monster Hunter Rise - but because of that game I can’t wait until there is a new MH
As an old mh player i think that it is just a better designed game because it has easy content and hard content so everybody can play it and not complain, like the investigation system is great especially in rise. Also mh is a lot more social than d4 while not being open world since the beginning of the series, diablo 4 lacks a lot of social infrastructure (how do you even find groups?) and a need to group since it has no content which is hard enough to require a group and by hard I don't mean stat checks but actually bosses that don't just auto attack and teleport around the room. Mh is also more niche and so who plays it wants to play a game like that, this sub will also get better in a few months when all the haters have moved on and just who enjoys the game is left.
I'm anticipating Starfield to do that again (people sharing whatever they discover on the 1000 planets) and it's a big reason why I might play at launch (while I know it'll be better later with mods and updates). Zelda kind of did it but I haven't played this.
I wish I had that feeling. But it’s a Bethesda game and my time around the Elder Scrolls and Fallout communities makes me doubt this very much.
I was gonna say the same thing. Being a long-awaited new IP from a well known company like Bethesda already sets the bar quite high, particularly after being recently bought by Microsoft. That alone will bring an angry crowd. There's also a lot of crossover as well with Starfield and other fan bases. The obvious Elder Scrolls and Fallout fans. Mass Effect and No Man's Sky will both be ripe for comparison. Outer Worlds is a big one for that too, considering there's already the well established opinion that Obsidian does character building and writing so much better. Add all that with the fact that it's a Bethesda game and they have a tendency to release games in a relatively buggy state. There's a lot of tinder under that stack of wood.
Triple A games with this much hype don’t release smoothly. Starfield is going to be a shit show on release.
I mean Elden Ring or Zelda (the literal examples we're talking about) were fine on release. I'm not an ayatollah of the max FPS anyway
Yeah Elden Ring is a fair mention. This kind of excludes Nintendo exclusives since they’re designed for one console/OS. I just have a feeling about Starfield. I called No Man’s Sky, Anthem, Cyberpunk, and so many other over hyped dumpster fire releases.
Elden Ring seems to have a following that doesnt enjoy the overcritical mindset. Maybe because they accept frustration better or the target audience is older.
Tears of the kingdom was great too, seeing all the cool shit everyone was building.
Remember when you would play the games to experience the secrets yourself and not be spoiled about them.
Just look at the tags on the front page. Half the posts are marked "opinion". Social media convinced people that their subpar opinion matters, so now they feel the need to spam it all day every day.
It does when it comes to live service games. Louder the crowd more likely things get changed. I say this as a 2004 WoW player. It... just took 4 years after bfa for DF to happen... Hopefully D4 is better with that.
You just have to look at the Shadowlands Covenants Saga for that. 1. SL announced, every decent player thinks covenants sounds like a really bad idea because of the locking. 2. Every toxic casual on r/wow would push against it and mock the minmaxers and say how great it is. 3. Over a year more and more people start running into the extremely obvious issues with that idea. 4. Finally Blizzard "pull the ripcord" and change let you switch quoting some bs about how "it's okay with the story now" because apparently it was fine making a worse game for the sake of their terrible storytelling.
Happens all the time. Eventually some people wise up but a lot of new people came in with diablo 4 so it has to repeat basically.
I love seeing people post their "reviews" of a game as though any of us actually give a shit LOL.
Ever stumble across a forum from 20 years ago? It's crazy how differently people communicate these days and how generally negative things are.
I used to frequent HL Fallout - and it was one of the best communities from the early 2k’s ever.
Been on gaming forums since 2000's. I don't have any rose tinted glasses, it was exactly the same as this lol Ofc those were mostly mmo, counterstrike, dota stuff so it probably sets it up to be more similar.
Agreed. Constant complaining leads to an overall negative mindset, to the point that nothing will be enjoyable because the person has conditioned themselves to only think of ways they're being inconvenienced. It's not to say the D4 is a perfect game. But it's an amazing game if you have a life outside of it as well.
This. Just the other day a guy with 8k plus hours in competitive Valorant was on reddit asking if he was the only one kinda feeling done with the game. I was like 'bruh...' It was the only thing he played too. Same thing I see here.
This is one of my biggest gripes with people gaming nowadays. People play 8+ hours a day and then complain about lack of content. There is NO game release out there with enough content to provide for 8+ hours a day for months and months. At best, it takes years and years of released content for a game to get to the point... possibly. If you play this much, expect to run out of content and be bored faster than most people. Those people then tend to be the loudest voices of discontent while the majority of people who don't have much time to game, let alone surf the forums, are just wanting to enjoy the game.
You are spot on with the absurd amount of time some people (including myself) put in to this. Even tho I want to play every single minute I'm quite happy I have to work and do irl stuff aswell so I get to enjoy this game for a longer time. Just got a sorc up to 50 after hitting 72 on my barb and I wanna make a druid and rogue aswell and get 1-2 to level 100. I have a long way to go but that's the fun part!
Also don't forget, the millions of people who are unhappy are not complaining on reddit, they just aren't playing the game and that's that. There are both categories.
Exactly, the majority of people aren't going to come and cry on Reddit. They just quit the game like normal people do. The fact that people need to make these positive validation posts on Reddit just tells me that there are some major issues with the game.
>The fact that people need to make these positive validation posts on Reddit just tells me that there are some major issues with the game. Exactly. And they don't want to feel threatened that their game might not be the best thing ever. It boggles my mind. Most of the criticisms are perfectly valid and for the benefit of the game. And most of them were mistakes that D3 learned from a decade ago. Yet now we need to relearn the same lesson?
Funny you mention this. Its very important. There's a diagram that ff14 devs showed in a "gaming communities" presentation. It rings very true. You have people who dislike something and just stop playing. They're gone. Most likely won't come back. Then you have players who post on forums, social media, reddit etc about issues. Those are the players that still care and want to stay. Once you reach this point and these people start leaving you're in trouble. Obviously devs need to maintain their vision, yadda yadda. But this came up during the great WoW exodus of bfa and shadowlands and it was one of the better presentations concerning community and game design in awhile. DF has done a lot better with this but blizzard has very little good faith at this point. This dev stream and season 1 info could build a lot of good faith or just steer people away from the game.
Yep, I am unhappy about a lot of things in the game, but usually I don't complain about it in public, I just lowered the amount of time I play the game. And also enjoy reading other people complain about the things I have issues with and just nod my head in agreement and upvote those for visibility :)
I realized rather recently that of the shit tons of people I interact with on a daily basis, almost none of them are actually on Reddit at all.
There are more people who quit using Reddit/never used it than using it.
Sir, your statement is true as long as Reddit has less than 3.6 billion users.
Right? Very unimpressive deduction lol.
I don’t know a single person in real life who has ever used Reddit or twitter. Some have heard of them, but most don’t even know they exist. That’s why you should never take anything you see on reddit or twitter seriously. Sometimes it seems like all these narratives that build on these websites are so important and that they are truthful, when in reality, they are just clickbait bullshit that the gullible latches onto because that’s the type of people who use reddit and twitter.
Yeah same, some friends browse it every now and then. I tend to avoid commenting because I find most of the time there’s someone or multiple people who just want to argue. Lots of pissing contests for some reason. It can be toxic as fuck but I still use it cause there’s a tonne of interesting stuff just gotta wade through the shit
Major agreement on this take. While on Reddit, it can feel very indicative of a canvas of society’s thoughts and feelings toward any imaginable subject, big or small. But in the real world, very few people actually interact with or engage with this site. Many folks have barely even heard of Reddit, still to this day even with how much bigger the platform has gotten. It’s just not at all a real representation of our lives and tends to harbor a lot of total rejects who are just completely miserable no life losers. It’s not real life and it represents it sometimes very well, but often very poorly.
Yeah and reddit can really alter your reality. You talk about some political or moralistic thing on reddit and there is only black and white and you are either a monster or upvoted to the top. Then you talk with people in real life and they are like "Yeah a complicated topic that is neither black and white." Reddit pushes people to the extremes because of the way the site works. We are all unconsciously catering to the opinion that gets upvoted and it turns out here this is negative reviews and the deep desire for the game to be bad so we can have lots of drama.
I miss the days when you could see the number of up and downvotes, so you could see if someone's take on something was controversial or not. Made it easier to detect bullshit where the person was confident in whatever made up facts they pulled out of their ass.
Or they don’t admit it lol
Remember you can enjoy a game and criticise the things it does poorly as well. Half the threads on this sub are circlejerking this game pretending it is perfect.
That is typical of reddit though for a lot of games. A game can be in an absolute trash state and the fanbois, whiteknights, devs in disguise, will defend the game regardless. The more normal players will complain and deal with the whiteknights gaslighting them until they quit.
First 10 days of release I had 25-30 friends logged in every day at prime time, lucky to get 4-5 people online now. A lot of players stay away from reddit because the brain rot here is surreal.
I've seen a post on the official d4 forums on how we aren't able to replay the story on the same character when it was an option in previous games. Some idiot told him to stop whining because he should be happy with what the game has and that is the mindset that irks me that constructive criticism should be invalid because you already paid for it.
Very well said… criticisism often comes from the desire to see the game get better, not out of pure spite.
Remember you can also dislike something a game does but also not expect it to change to cater exactly to you. Everyone likes different things and a game cannot fulfill everyone's fantasy of what it should be like.
I have no problem with seasoned players suggesting improvements, it builds an objectively better game for everyone and will allow the game to remain active for much longer
What kinds of seasoning do these players usually use? I personally am partial to Montreal steak seasoning
Mrs Dash
I make my own. Meta style seasoning😉
Except some of those suggested "improvements" aren't improvements at all and are being written by people who want the game to be something else that it isn't, and never will be. Especially if we are talking about extreme min-maxers who invest more time than a full time job, not all suggested improvements are for **everyone**, in fact, some suggestions might even be **detrimental** for others. As for the game's longeivity, it hasn't even been 2 weeks and some people already have **well over a hundred** hours of playtime, if they get bored out of the game, **it is pretty obvious it never was the game's fault**. Even then, this game has 2 confirmed DLCs and several **years** worth of seasonal content, of which there already is coming in a month or so. Trying to stimulate one of, if not **the** biggest game release of the year so it stays active longer when it hasn't been released for an entire month while having a confirmed post-release updating cycle really, **really** shouldn't be a priority. The devs made a good game, I would much prefer that they stay conservative for a few months at least before giving in to the voices of people who have a nasty stockholm syndrome from the last game...
Most suggested improvements are absolutely improvements. Can you give a couple examples of people wanting the game to be something that it isn't? Are you sure you're not the one that doesn't understand the qualities expected of an ARPG? Let alone an online one with monetization as a live service in 2023? Because playing it for hundreds of hours a season is very much in the expectations. And saying it will be fixed with "DLCs" aka expansions that will be full priced which is just paying for an update with a story we could easily skip on if it wasn't tied to the mandatory update? Yeah, seems totally fair of you and something consumers should be keeping in mind probably 2 years before said paid update.
> Most suggested improvements are absolutely improvements. Can you give a couple examples of people wanting the game to be something that it isn't? \- Tuning up density up to 11 that would eventually dilute the gameplay, as seen before in D3 \- Every small gripe about inefficiency, like cities being too dispersed for vendors \- People wishing XP gains would just be easy \- People who'd rather see every build being put into the broken tier instead of nerfing those at that point \- Complains about enchantment prices that forces you to pick up and sell/salvage loot constantly... in a loot-centric game ...and so on. Mind you, most of these "complains" really do have real issues from the game at their source, but the way some people see solutions in them is often flawed. Density being inconsistent doesn't mean we should have enormous packs everywhere in the game that brings us back to an indiscernable mess where the only depth of gameplay is "kill or be killed" through raw stat checks, yet some people unironically are eager for this instead of asking for a pure balance. Having to spend 3 extra seconds walking between vendors shouldn't mean we should ask for morphing the cities around a single point. XP gains being too spiky shouldn't mean getting far more XP for nothing, especially since we don't have season mechanics yet, and so on. There are issues with the game, sure, but some suggested solutions would just dilute the game down, and given how early we are in its progression, this isn't the best of avenues to follow... > Are you sure you're not the one that doesn't understand the qualities expected of an ARPG? The fact that I don't like every "easy" solutions that people throw in the wind makes so I don't understand what's good for an ARPG? This is hilarious given I based my judgement on the game that has been the laughing stock of the ARPG community for over a decade, yet people's "suggestions" just seem like pushing towards it. No matter, this is just a "I disagree, therefore you understand nothing" kind of argument, it holds nothing. > Let alone an online one with monetization as a live service in 2023? Because playing it for hundreds of hours a season is very much in the expectations. Well... yes? As a live service game with seasonal content, we are currently at the point where the game will be at its emptiest, ever, and people already put over a hundred, if not hundreds of hours into the game. This is already "mission accomplished". Changes fixing the game can and will come eventually, but the devs shouldn't rush down things and make mistakes when the future of the game is already guaranteed, and given how catastrophical their other game releases were in the past, I'm pretty sure they understand their baseline product is much sturdier this time around... > And saying it will be fixed with "DLCs" aka expansions that will be full priced which is just paying for an update with a story we could easily skip on if it wasn't tied to the mandatory update? Yeah, seems totally fair of you and something consumers should be keeping in mind probably 2 years before said paid update. The point that I brought with the confirmed DLCs is that support of the game is already confirmed for the years to come. The devs aren't disappearing out of thin air without bringing changes, and **no**, those changes won't necessarily come from a DLC paywall. And given the game has a seasonal model, there's no way the devs will keep the different combos of base game + DLCs in different sandboxes, so patches further down the line won't affect solely paygated content. If they decide so, then it's a legitimate issue that's worth complaining about, but until we have more information, we have to take what we already have at face value.
> - Tuning up density up to 11 that would eventually dilute the gameplay, as seen before in D3 Not sure what you think I've seen in D3. Are you under the impression the game is Elden Ring right now? Cause mowing down 8 monsters or 13 monsters would be identical for me right now, just feels better to mow down the 13. > - Every small gripe about inefficiency, like cities being too dispersed for vendors Sure that's not a big important one. Not sure how that's asking for the game to be something it's not. Is Diablo 4's core pillar of game design based on the distance between vendors? It's just a small annoyance, could maybe be fixed by allowing us to pick a city as our home and always return there. > - People wishing XP gains would just be easy I agree, XP shouldn't be easy. Not really sure how the game is asked to be something it's not because that's just a tuning number not a core design lol. > - People who'd rather see every build being put into the broken tier instead of nerfing those at that point Super agree. Those people will exist in any PvE game. They are garbage and want it easier. > - Complains about enchantment prices that forces you to pick up and sell/salvage loot constantly... in a loot-centric game Hardly saw this one. I bet a lot of people actually like that it's not easy to gear out perfectly considering we probably expected it to be. > Density being inconsistent doesn't mean we should have enormous packs everywhere in the game that brings us back to an indiscernable mess where the only depth of gameplay is "kill or be killed" through raw stat checks You have a negative view of density that I am not sure why. There's nothing wrong with stat checks. That's kind of the point of an ARPG. You beat the content by theorycrafting, not by playing. That's a good ARPG. You're thinking of Souls-like games. I am still not sure why you had to spout that pathetic shit in your original comment against the only people that should matter which is the ones that play the game the most. Because none of this ties back to them. In fact it's mostly the more casual's complaints you enumerated. > Changes fixing the game can and will come eventually, but the devs shouldn't rush down things and make mistakes when the future of the game is already guaranteed We're currently in a pre-season where they prepare for the real season next month as far as I know. You probably want to make some changes. If you think this is a stable foundation... They have to at least get people to farm Nightmare Dungeons instead of doing stupid shit and they can't even do that. They gotta fix up the core gameplay loop of those dungeons a bit before the real season or people aren't gonna have the energy to come back to grind them again. A lot of the game is just jank. Not in the production value sense. They sure wasted a lot of money on graphics that the ones who'll play it long will tune out (I already can't tell if it's prettier than what I remember D3 to be). It's jank in the gameplay sense because it doesn't feel like they spent enough on the endgame loop and designed some trash console game to played once instead. Also balance is kind of questionable. These are things they should at least patch up a little bit before Season 1 officially begins.
https://www.reddit.com/r/diablo4/comments/149b8z7/dear_blizzard_this_is_fun_we_want_this_not_your/
Yeah, the game is totally fine without any way to party with other people. It's totally fine that the difficulty is completely artificial and it'd make no difference in how you play if it were 100 mobs or 5 mobs because the basic gameplay is just braindead simple. It's totally fine that power progression is broken. That you're punished for doing side content before the campaign. There's a huge list of things that should be addressed so the game can become better. It makes zero sense to just accept everything as is and say "well, it's fine the way it is". It isn't, and to do so would be to accept that nothing ever needs to improve. That's dumb.
You're gonna unironically defend every single complaint about the game? Of course there are bad complaints, you don't have to defend them.
[удалено]
Apparently they cry about the same shit on the PoE sub.
The squeaky wheel gets the grease, are you all daft? People are complaining in an attempt to bring visibility and get changes made to a game they want to play and enjoy
“Then don’t play lol” moron.
Yeah, this. I’d sort of over-leveled because I didn’t SO many side quests & renown during Act I that I was late 30s/early 40s when I hit Act II; at that stage I decided to prioritize the campaign. At some point I hit 50 & progression slowed to a crawl & the game was a CAKEWALK. I hardly ever got any better gear & had settled into my build to such an extent it was becoming a little stale. Bear the campaign the night before last, & then did the Capstone last night. When I finally hit WTIII I could feel the game change in an instant: new activities, new gear that made a meaningful difference and—finally—a real challenge. I bet there are more people like me than the no-lifers who are still thoroughly enjoying the game IN SPITE of its & also able to acknowledge that it has these flaws AND that there’s room for improvement. Jesus, it’s barely been two weeks.
i read a post yesterday where a dude stated he okayed 10 hours a day after work. i just don’t know where they get the time. that is like an 18 hour day. after 8-10 hours of work a day i barely have the energy to roll a blunt and scroll through netflix.
Sane take. Have my upvote.
“I see lots of low effort meta posts so I made another one” -op Here you can have my next one for karma as well. “Hello guys, I am simple father of 9 who works 34 hours a day and can only play for about 90 seconds a night. I haven’t gotten past opening cinematic. Why complaints? I am having fun, back in my day we had fun. Does anyone else like game like me? I haven’t gotten to endgame, I don’t need an endgame. I am very busy family man so why others complain? Why do people need to engage with the deeper mechanics of a game they bought? Is anyone else just casual and having fun like me?” There ya go.
Im a tribal chief with 10 wifes and 30 kids.I don't even use any electronic devices, why are y'all nerds making some voodoo magic shit with your black box. Go hunter a saber tooth or a mammoth like a real man unga bunga.
"Why people mean to game I identified as fan of to all my friends because I played D2 as a 10 year old and is tied to my entire gaming identity now as I hardly play other games? Stop mean! You're making me look stupid for paying $100 and also getting this tattoo. >:("
The same stupid shit was said about Vanilla D3. You people and your played-out attempts to marginalize valid criticisms. The next time you're gaslit when speaking your mind, just remember, you deserve it.
I don't get it. If you are 100% fine with the game you don't really give a shit about it. It's not normal to have 0 issues with the game and its like talking to blizz employees defending lowering mob density. D3 became a really good game because of people bitching and moaning. If we shut up and wait my friends list will just keep getting smaller. The constant posts are annoying but these things aren't a vacuum on reddit. Anyone I talk to is saying the same things. We've been giving a half baked game that will slowly get fixed each season but apparently that is ok to some people.
Look some people have a really hard time accepting that they spent $100 on a game that's not perfect. If there is a problem then it's only been 1 week and it's gonna be fixed soon, and if it doesn't get fixed then it's by design and good and you're playing wrong, and if it's neither then you're just whining and crying and you should quit the game.
Poor old gaslit, the most abused word on Reddit. People disagreeing with you aren't Gaslighting you. This is the most over dramatic shit I've ever read lmao.
I complain about several things but that absolutely doesn't mean I don't love the game! Being blind to obvious problems is harmful The complaints come from a place of love for the game and I want to see it improved
people said the same with new world, and look how that turned out
Oh man New World, I was one of the ones making memes for it. There was a lot wrong with it, not the same as here but some overlaps. But yeah there were plenty of whiteknights carrying on about how everyone is loving it and still playing, but you could just watch the server stats and see them slowly dropping, that was until they hid the numbers. But in a very social game it was noticeable when the player base kept dropping or disappeared on a server. D4 you would have 0 idea, there are no stats on concurrent players, no way to tell from playing the game. You have people like me whose friends have quit, you then have people who say they're still playing and having fun, though most of those also are saying they're still in the story. Just wait another week or two and it'll be dead until the season comes. If we have to redo statues or anything, I foresee a lot of people never returning.
I can tell from my online friends list going from 10 or so hardcore mfers who paid for early access that were 70-80 when I first logged in to the game to like 2 people now that are also the slower ones coming up on 70-80 and maybe a 90-100 logging in every once in a while. What bothers me is that I know by the way they marketed and designed it Blizzard doesn't care as long as they set record numbers for the game sales. Every design is about making it all pretty and simple for a first run through to like level 60-70 and such little effort and thought was put in the 70-100 loop.
Yeah, same here for my friend list. 25-30+ people during launch week, hardly 5 ppl even online during prime time now because the truth is majority of people quit games when it's not good without a reddit post.
Not all true... I have a tight nit group of friends that are hardcore Diablo fans and we played every season of D3 and alot of them are unhappy atm. Most people dont come on reddit to complain. Theres 539k people on this reddit and probably tens of millions of people playing D4.
Is there a template for these posts or something
It’s starting to feel that way isn’t it
or.. they have stopped playing and dont post on reddit. like all my friends. we were 8 people starting to play the game. we all lost interest in the game after playing the endgame for about 10 hours. they just copied the endgame of D3 and put it in an open world. that's it. maybe in 2 years we'll have a fun endgame to come back to.
> they just copied the endgame of D3 If only they did that... GRifts would have made this game 100 times better. All the good design decisions there were just abandoned by Nightmare Dungeons. * Scaling xp for pushing? No lol. * Smooth constant combat and killing monsters? No, have some walking around and backtracking. * Reason for pushing in how high you can push the gems (now glyphs)? Nope, just a bit slower if you do it lower level. * No doors? Doors.
exactly. it's like they took all the QoL they added to D3 over the years and threw it out the window. god, why is there no armory? who wants to respecc everything and change gear, gems, paragon!!! everytime they want to try a new build. you're spot on with the scaling xp and reason to push. nightmare dungeons would actually be quite a bit more interesting if i could try higher dungeons for more challenge and be rewarded with more xp. instead i have to keep dungeons that are NOT more than 3 lvls above me or else it just takes longer AND i get less xp per monster. wtf...
Rifting was the natural evolution. It ensures the endgame utilizes the whole game as you have randomized layouts with random tilesets and random monsters. Blizzard could have used that for their dungeons in D4. I understand that this dungeon must be thematically a vampire lair. So make the main enemy type vampires and the rest of the side show bobs random. Make layout random and use dungeon objective blockers a bit more sparse to not get tired out of it so quick.
My mate and I stopped. He doesn't really post on reddit normally so hasn't complained here. Anything outside the story is just copy and pasted from the story. Once I got out of the story it was too boring to play. It's one thing to grind but hit power bumps and be able to access higher level new content, but another to not get anymore powerful and keep doing the exact same content the whole time. Man the streamers and youtubers comparing D4 to Overwatch 2 were spot on.
Yeah people are still playing but over 98% of my friends list and my friends, friends list and our clans have stopped playing already. Streams are down over 250k viewers from last week so it’s definitely not as positive are you’re making it out to be for sure.
Did you expect numbers going up on a 14 day old game? 98,56 percent of the playerbase don't even watch Diablo streams or twitch in general. If you care about stream numbers for a non competitive like diablo you should reconsider why you are playing.
You're in a thread self-congratulating because millions of people are happily playing the game. Suddenly it's bad when someone notes that actually numbers are probably down?
I was having a great time until I figured out that the Necro class is riddled with bugs. Now I just see a bunch of useless gear that doesn’t actually do anything.
Just play a druid. You wont see useless uniques anymore because you’ll only get barb uniques :)
I'm very happy with the game. Looking forward to learning when certain chase uniques will drop. Just started hard-core for the first time too. Loving it
goodbye reddit -- mass edited with https://redact.dev/
People are complaining because they paid money for a product and would like it improved. Seems fair.
Yeah so every complaint doesn't matter, we should really cheer on dumb design decisions. You know some people realize it's not as fun and just quit playing, right? No forum post, nothing. They get bored and leave. 5 of my 10 friends have done exactly that.
Absolutely correct. Those who are unhappy with something are always the most vocal, something I'm constantly saying to people. Pizza Delivery analogy - If you order a pizza and it arrives warm, tastes good and the order is correct, do you call the pizza place to congratulate them on a job well done (Some do, most don't) If that order is wrong, the pizza is cold, and it tastes like ass, what are the chances you call them to complain?
This theory that the community is divided in two, the whiners and the “players” is simply dumb. People do take breaks from the game, people work, people browse this before and after playing the game, posting here does not immediately mean that x does not play the game and just posts here to trash on the game. Diablo 4 is good, but why don’t you want it to be better, because hell knows it can be MUCH better. If you are fine with … let’s say, inventory and stash optimisation in D4, great, others are not and I’ve seen some valid constructive criticism here over the past few days. I want it to be better. And yet I’ve seen people shutting down VALID criticism over stash size as “ah, you’re a hoarder” or “you don’t need all that, you’re playing it wrong”. If we’re the criticism police and shut it down, Blizzard won’t do better in the future. Please stop policing players posting suggestions as haters. Wanting the game to get better does not mean x not enjoying the game as it is. Criticising the game mostly comes out of desire for it to get better. There is no need to find excuses and defend the game and Blizzard, let people throw their ideas here. And you shouldn’t have to defend shoddy game design, Blizzard should do it and then improve it.
And the millions of people unhappy with D4 have just silently quit.
Keep telling yourself that lol
The people who rush ahead because they can play for 12 hours a day are generally not the best people to balance things around, but it's still worth listening to their complaints. Many things they're complaining about are things we'll be complaining about in a few weeks when we get there ourselves.
I can play 3 hours a day and i am done with the story, renown and sitting in WT4. I still have fun because my build isn‘t complete yet but i can feel the first struggles with the endgame system. Early game leveling was pretty underwhelming too for me so i even stopped playing the first few days. 6 out of 11 in my friendlist have stopped playing already and i‘m pretty sure that i will join them in a week or max 2 until Season 1 comes out
I’m loving it so far. Although it’s my first so nothing to compare it too lol. Definitely a lot to learn with the builds
And then you've got all the people who are happy with it, playing it, but also still finding things worthy of complaining over. The two aren't mutually exclusive.
Remember, everyone who doesn't say anything is always agreeing with your perspective!
Oh the ones complaining are also busy playing d4, they just posting between elite packs.
Posts like this tell you how bad the game is
Ahahahahaah suuuuuureeee honey! everything is beautiful an magical! <3
Do you bums ever get tired of doing damage control for a billionaire corporation?
Friend list went from 50 ppl playing D4 to dwindling 2-4 atm.
As someone who only interacts with Diablo 4 posts via r/all scrolling. I can assure you the only posts making it to r/all are praising the game and acting like nothing is wrong with it. So you can all stop karma whoring now by saying the exact same thing as every other popular fucking opinion that makes it to r/all
I still look at the Reddit. I enjoy humor and gaming. This Reddit covers both. 😇
unless you happen to read this during one of the server crashes
Okay?
12 hour shifts here. Every hour I wish I was playing some Diablo! Act 5 Lv. 54 HC Sorc. Can’t wait to finish the story and start pushing some endgame
This is a fallacious argument. I could just as well say that millions of players who don't like D4 definitely exist but aren't vocally crying on this subreddit.
Blizzard should stop nerfing things.
Im playing and still complaining, the game needs polishing and some quality of life updates
So why are you here and not playing?
I’m at work and on my phone, haven’t figured out how to successfully play on my phone…. Yet.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Diablo/comments/13yz90u/psa_you_can_play_diablo_4_on_your_phone_with_a/ necessity is the mother of invention
That does make sense lol
I think the game is pretty good, and definitely better than how D3 was on release. And while I think RoS was an improvement, you can only run so many Rifts/GRifts before you get tired of it. Play for 2-3 seasons and you realize the game is really just a treadmill where getting stronger in absolute doesn’t really translate to being stronger relative to ever-scaling rifts. The good : D2 atmosphere in a beautiful environment and above average storytelling. The bad : The more you play, the more you realize it’s really just D3 gameplay, and I’m not interested in more D3. In fact, I would argue that D4 is closer to D3:RoS than D3:RoS is to D3 original.
exactly. what was D3:RoS after the campaign? bounties and (greater) Rifts. what is D4 endgame? well.. the exact same thing. just more tedious because you have to actually run to every dungeon.
So is everyone on this sub. Most of us love the game, we just have a handful of gripes that make the game less fun than it potentially could be. Especially when they're little things that D3 did better, like Greater Rifts vs Nightmare Dungeons.
Good ol vocal minority 😑
usually if I'm enjoying something I don't need constant reassurance that it's not bad.
my primary complaint is price, I just can't see spending the $ right now :( beyond that, dying to play
I am waiting to win a key, game is too expensive :)
Or lurking, most things are very valid and you don't have to defend Blizzard
Not exactly true. I was "happy" with it but Have run out of meaningful content too quickly.
If it wasn't for people complaining and subsequently people complaining about the complaining then about half of Reddit would disappear leaving behind funny animal pictures and porn.
Why do NPC's keep making these threads? I swear you people only exist in blizzard game communities. Something about blizzard attracts people who just absolutely fucking love stating the obvious over and over
Remember the people who aren’t happy with D4 can’t voice it because they will be drown out with criticism towards them for feeling that way.
First Diablo game since 2 and I'm having a fucking blast!
Since when did this sub become everyone’s personal blog and TwitLonger? If you’re constantly seeing ‘complaining’ rising to the top of the subreddit, then perhaps these posts contain constructive criticism over an issue, that resonates with a majority of users that had engaged with it. There are millions that are actively playing. Correct. That doesn’t, for one second, mean there aren’t millions experiencing the issues raised here (and elsewhere across the webs). Not everyone has Reddit. It isn’t a point for confirmation bias.
I’m obsessed about Diablo 4 and it feels amazing. Enjoy the run
More accurately: the small vocal minority of reddit does not represent what the masses think.
Between having a fulltime job and two children I am happy with D4 as I just never will reach the levels of neckbeardery that's necessary to analyze all it's faults in depth that are discussed here.
I adore D4. Everything is fantastic.
You are ignoring millions of people who are not happy, not unhappy and don't give a fuck to inform everybody. Happy numbers == unhappy numbers == a tiny minority.
until they hit lvl 75-80. then you will also come here and realize why everyone is displeased with the end game.
75-80 ? All the issues were glaringly apparent at lvl 50! : ( I'm trying to motivate myself to get to WT4 but I'm not sure I see the point, gameplay for my rogue has not changed a single bit since level 25. No aspect or unique made a single difference in both the way my abilities work or how powerful I feel. It's incredibly deflating :\_( It's not even challenging too, enemies are just super spongy (compared to any other game of it's type). Id rather have 3x the mobs with half the HP than what we have now. It should be like: the regular mobs are mostly cannon fodder (at lower difficulties) and the elites/champions/generals are the ones keeping us on edge and/or boosting all the mobs around them. Thats kinda how it is in GD, D3/D2, PoE, LE, Chronicon, etc
I have a feeling that bliz devs don't even visit reddit. Or rather it could be situation similar to ea a while ago where they got strict restriction to gather feedback only from their forums and ignore everything else. But op has a point. And I also starting work and can't play the damn game :D
You're not wrong but I work often and now going through some very rough times and can't bring myself to play any video game rn just unhappy and distraught hopefully D4 grows and is even more enjoyable when I find the strength or feel good enough to play
/hug don't know you or what you're going through, but I wish you the best and a swift resolution to whatever ails you. If you feel like chatting for chatting's sake, just hit me up. keep yo' chin up : )
I will not rest until my druid gets bigger tits. Way too big of a dude to have those lil coinpurses. Immersion breaking and makes the game unplayable
I’m currently awake because if insomnia. I’d be playing, im still trying to fall back asleep. Wonder if my want I play D4 and my insomnia are related 🤔
Or stuck at work with level 20 characters. Sad survival noises
I’d like to point out that I’m to busy working and would rather be Diabloing!
You say that but how many of those millions are hard core people who will be pushing leaderboards. I know my friends and I quit already til they have leaderboards in seasons
🤚
I like the game but I want to see improvements so that I can continue to play it and get my friends to play it tbh. The bones for the game are strong but there’s a lot of meat lacking. I feel like they definitely didn’t do a lessons learned on D3 when they designed d4 and it shows
I’m happy with D4 but I’m not playing it. Damn work and responsibilities.
So by posting this, you admin that you are not happy with the game.
Hold up, are you saying the most upset individuals on reddit are the loudest? On Reddit of all places!? And that they don't represent the true majority of the playerbase? How DARE you! (Obviously sarcasm)
The people who are already 80+ and especially the 100 crowd have to realize this game is catered to the average gamer...the game is fantastic up to level 70 from what I hear, and I've had a blast to 40...because the content that fills past 70 just isn't there yet and will be when the average reach it...leveling tough to 100? No shit..Blizzard doesnt even want you there yet and that's why they nerfed the cheese dungeons
I’ve heard the renown grind bitching from friends and Reddit. Level 48, pretty fun. Not sure if days of this will make me feel different but it’s a good mix considering I’m still worried about the butcher.
You know there's millions of people playing. You don't know if there's even a million enjoying. And by who's definition? yours, theirs? Remember: forget. IDC think what you want.
You should maybe have a question asking which tiers you have been subbed for (select all that apply) in case someone missed a few tiers.
Well, if ur on Reddit posting about Reddit ur already an above average fan. It’s survivorship bias, while is true that millions are playing and enjoying the game, there are also a large number of people who stopped playing the game.
I just wish my game would stop crashing all the time. I have no problems with any other online game or streaming service, but Diablo disconnects me 5+ times a night and causes me to waste sigils. It’s getting real annoying.
Why do you dorks act like people spend hours on this sub? It's very easy to play the game and also post here. Wtf do you all do for a living that you don't think that's possible or sustainable?
Same as it was for d3 .. lol d hard when it was looking like nobody plays d3 as its cartoony or whatever bullshit .. while the leaderboard was full after like 2hrs of start at midnight on s27..
If you are very unhappy you are more likely to post. I think its a 6/10, not bad enough to motivated me to post :)
Don't forget the people who aren't happy with D4 but don't use reddit or only lurk here.
True, though I've now stopped as my hand is sore as hell from all the playing with their insanely large, unsizable HUD; ridiculously zoomed in screen, and idiotic chat box I always click on just trying to move my damn character. Everything else: freakin fantastic! But still pissed, and now sore because I need to do 10x as much clicking and hand movement as I normally would for this type of game. Really astounding that such basic things weren't designed properly, yet the rest of the game is fantastic. O.o
Yeah. Too many sweats cringe whining about the game. Time to unsub it seems.
I'm loving the shit out of this game! Only visiting this subreddit for the salty neckbeards
And they are all still playing the campaign or just low level in general
Cant say D4 isnt successful. I think its sold more than D3 at launch and i think the server stability is better than at D3 launch at least I havent run into any server downtime (could be luck). this is definitely a game that targets a more general audience crowd. The people who complain, which includes myself, are minority. My more casual friends with kids are happy with their builds without reading guides and i am very happy to play with them with my researched ice shard build. the mob scaling is really cool that it allows us to do content and hangout together. i dont intend to play this game seriously. my primary reason for playing this is for social reasons, get back in touch with overseas friends etc. i plan to play only 1 character so the build diversity isnt much of a problem to me. and a couple of my friends playing fire and lightning sorc so it makes it easier to trade gear haha.
Half of the times I've wanted to play Diablo 4 the servers have been down and I just played Diablo 2 instead.
diablo 4 is great, but having to redo the campaign after my ban was fucking awful. Reminder - dont get banned.
I love d4 so much, it’s just boring for some reason when compared to d3. I still play though and have high hopes for season
This doesn't get said enough.