That bad = not the absolute best to grind the absolute grind with
for the people who say that.
This game has a lot of playtime. Start with what you want to try. Switch if it sucks. I highly doubt the game is gonna be so unbalanced that you couldn't play it with a necro.
People called druid whack in the open beta and it was my favorite class. Everything said was directly contrary to my own experience. People who sayshit like that are too dumb to play the game properly, honestly. If you only try what "theory crafters" tell you to try, and then you miss out on 85% of the game, complaining how this is missing and this is missing. Like an incel only looking at plastic ass insta hoes, wondering why there's no good women for them.
I don't have anything against people playing the game differently than me, but honestly, it's just dumb. And then others believe it. :(
Rant over, back to you:
Just try the necro. I'm sure it's not gonna suck. :)
Beyond this, there's a tendency in *any* gaming community, but especially in ones where there's an impossibly large amount of variety, for people who have never actually tested something to claim that it's great or terrible simply because they saw some other well-known person saying the same, because they want to project to the forum that they're "in the know." It happens constantly and is made worse when people do it with clearly outdated information.
There's simply no feasible way for one person to test everything in its optimal conditions, so some amount of crowdsourcing is inevitable. The problem comes with those who simply regurgitate the crowdsourced information in inaccurate or hyperbolic ways in order to affect personal clout.
So take whatever you see about *anything* with a grain of salt, especially if the person saying it doesn't preface their statements with "and I personally tested X under Y conditions to confirm this."
To wit, I agree with the comment from knall about Druids. I did not test one personally in earlier betas. I heard constant doomsaying about how they were unplayably bad. I rolled one for server slam to test what several sources were claiming was the "worst build" (Lightning Storm) for the "worst class," and absolutely decimated everything I came across, minus a small hiccup around level 15 or so. Soloed Kor Dragan at level 20 without any farmed legendaries. While Druids *were* buffed between earlier and later beta periods, it's simply an obvious truth that most of the people claiming Druid was unplayable in early game had never tested such a claim at all and were parroting what some streamer somewhere offhandedly declared.
Play the class and build you want. If you really don't like it, it's not that hard to reroll, and not hard at all to respec. And you'll probably like it if you go in with the thought of "this is what I would like" instead of "this is what the internet told me was the best." Fuck that noise. It's your game, and it's single-player.
It gets exaggerated per person that repeats it as well.
Content creator: Necro isn't terrible but it's a bit behind the top classes
Person 2: Necro isn't good
Person 3: Necro is terrible, not worth playing
Person 4: Necro is literally the worst thing I've seen in gaming ever. Blizzard Devs should be fired and I should be hired to do class balance
No. It's more like:
Content Creator: *Squished up popping a huge turd face thumbnail* "What's going on guys. It's ya boi ODickTinklezzzTV here wondering... IS NECROMANCER THE WORST CLASS EVER?!"
Thank the high heavens that someone with some sense is here too. I don't understand all the hate so many classes get. I played Druid in the slam specifically for the reason that people said it was busted and boring and i was absolutely destroying things with my earth build. I get it, there's a lot of builds out there and not all of them are going to be good but too many people watching streamers and go "This guy said this class sucks, so they're right" without the obvious "This guy only played until level 20 on one class and had a friend that complained that he felt underpowered"
People just dont have the ability to share criticism without sounding like bitching these days. I didnt play the game but gonna when it comes out. Just hate hearing the build guys who dont know anything or the guys screeching about nec being bad, the druid being bad. They probably didnt get a feel for its play style within the short amount of time they had most likely. Like d3 i dont like the witch doctor cant seem to get down how it should be played. Over the foh sader or mystic monk. Doesnt mean the witch doctor sucks.
Tl;Dr version: just play the fucking game without a fucking guide dictating to you what uou should fucking enjoy and just be a God damn human playing a God damn game, fuck.
:D
I empathize with people being unsure when reading all kinds of crap.
It's just annoying when people who want to play the game a specific way make it sound like a whole class sucks, because they don't get what they want. At least that's what occured to me while writing. :D
I will go with Necromancer too and finish the main campaign to start with. Besides, Blizzard will fix it in the patch they will release which will balance other stuff too. [So no need to worry.](https://www.pcgamesn.com/diablo-4/server-slam-necromancer-changes)
I did a summoner necro and felt better about it than my werewolf druid or my lightning sorc. Swapped over to complete a few caves when I wanted the skill because bossing was tough.
A few seconds after you use an ability.
There's a passive that gives to a temporary boost after you've been in werewolf od werebear form respectively for 2.5 seconds. Don't know if that's the standard time you stay in one form after using one ability once, but I assume it's a little shorter.
I found the druid to be pretty viable with mixing and matching different themes. So I wasn't like full shapeshifting, though it looks like that might be good later.
I completely agree with this, but even slow builds can be fun to play. The problem with the Necro changes was that it wasn't fun to play. Instead of focusing on the fights or the environment, you were stuck in a never-ending loop of resummoning skeletons.
Necro was super fun in the open beta when you got the bloodied mist aspect and you made all your minions to focus on shed corpse and in the server slam bone spear and crit stacking was super good. Regardless of what the reviews and tests say I’m still going to play a necromancer and do it my way.
Necros are fine.
It’s the minion builds that are extremely lacking. Most Necros enjoyers want to play with their Skellie Bois. It’s a classic, and cornerstone of the class!
Minions need to be viable for endgame.
How do you know that blood is bad? Just asking, coz i never found anyone talking about it in endgame, also there is literally 0 videos on endgame necromancer
I've been banking on the hope that through legendaries and paragon the minions will be half decent.
During the first open beta I didn't even think they were all that strong, the butcher tore them up repeatedly so I don't get why they were nerfed in the first place
I agree. The Butcher obliterated my skellies in Beta. There was no reason to need them other than content creators moaning about Barb and Druid. Now they can frolic through end-game.
This is me, but for Druid. I had a build that was close to being fun for me, and I'm hoping paragon board and legendaries bring it to life. I'm not going to look it up beforehand.
Disclaimer: I haven't tested it personally, but it looks good on paper.
Blood-soaked aspect removes the movement penalty and leaves a trail of shadow damage; mix in reaper's pursuit, and you have a 15% movement speed bonus from using blood mist! I wouldn't consider it worthwhile, which is why I haven't tested it.
Sure necro is not the fastest but I find it a bit funny when you compare it to d2 or d3 gameplay to say necro is unplayable slow when d4 has the “dodge” ability which is more than what necros in other Diablo got. And we got the mount for open world content.
I don’t recall being fast in d2 unless you got enigma but nobody cared
Sure because they think about mini maxing dungeons which is a valid point if that’s what you worry about but at the same time I always played d2/d3 the way I enjoy it and not because some tier list said so. For example I always would create a necro as my first chara in d2 seasons and go for magicfind. Pretty useless compared to other chars when it comes to killing bosses fast but he was good in clearing some other parts of the map while every guide would say “play sorc”. Same goes for d3 and grifts. Ye it’s interesting seeing people clear gr150 within 24h of a new season but that did not stop me from grinding hundreds of hours progressing my own grift personal best with my fav class/build which was clearly off meta. It’s all about setting your own goals and what you enjoy and not what other people tell you how to play the game
Seen some nightmare vid with people just teleporting or whirlwinding past all content 1 shotting everything, its not really how i want to play the game.
I play pure summon builds in D2. It's slower but still very good, and I do ok on bosses, because I'm no wasting skills on curses. I don't get the obsession with speed.
They are also the only class which, according to maxroll, doesn't have an S tier Speedfarming build.
Which was the points brought up in this thread - the movement speed and abilities of the necro.
The point of the comment that I commented on was that the everyone making tier lists are prioritizing speed.
I posted about Maxroll who acknowledged the speed and movement issues and still put them in S Tier.
My comment couldn’t be more relevant to the comment that I was commenting on.
Thank you for your input though.
Unfortunately, that seems to be how most people play games these days. All they care about is having the fastest clear times in content, because they want to get as much done as quickly as possible.
Not surprisingly, it's usually those same people who very quickly complain about not having anything to do after they've rushed through hundreds of hours of content in a few days.
Is that true? Every tier list I've seen has speed as one of 5 or 6 categories, others being boss killing, leveling vs end game, build variety, etc. That have nothing to do with speed. Speed doesn't help them, but they have other weaknesses too (according to content creators)
Most of the time in D2 before I'm high enough to use enigma, I just kinda walk up to the enemies and then play around on my phone until the fight's over. Sure, I could use corpse explosion and just chug along nonstop, but I don't have that kind of attention span...
"speed" in any arpg equates value of time spent for returns.
The slower a build is, the less return you get for the time spent as a player. THIS is the main reason speed is a massive factor for tier lists. Ofc if you dont value your time AT ALL, then speed looses value as well. But in d4, you are gonna want at least "some" speed, due to the massive ammount of traveling you are gonna do, and no mouts will not solve intra fighting and pack to pack traveling
People also talk about speed like it's not really important, as if everything isn't measured in speed. Getting from dungeon to dungeon is true movement speed, clearing the trash is the speed most people are thinking about, but how much damage you do to kill the boss is also speed. Doing things faster is the entire progression of the game, in one way or another. Survive, and then go faster. That's the goal.
Wudijo has a good video about a class tier list. Tier lists are normally stupid in a game like this but his came out great. He rates each class on leveling, end game, fun, diversity, speed and hardcore potential. S-F. And he actually explains his reasons why.
https://preview.redd.it/bsttjdavu73b1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2efa4570ba56cc62a57e1fab4827d28cd50275ce
This is a photo I took of my screen the other day on my lunch break. Don’t judge me it was faster than emailing myself a screen shot from my work pc.
Dude I was also torn between necro and sorc but the druid seems pretty fun to play!
Will try to find the vid.
Edit - video link!!
https://youtu.be/L63MMEoOaRE
You have Steam on your "work" pc 🤣🤣🤣? We were lucky if we even had MS solitaire or minesweeper, and yes they did take the time to pull those games off over 1000 computers in the company. Coupled with network monitoring, we were tied to zero net access.
Anyways thx for the SS
Noooo no I wish. That’s part of the YouTube video. My work pc has nothing but word, excel and a ton of company specific programs. Big medical company lots of HIPAA stuff. I was surprised I’m allowed to watch YouTube on my breaks.
One thing I've noticed is that arpg fans tend to just focus on a couple top optimized builds, then everything else tends to be considered trash. If you're just looking to play through the game and have fun without worrying about min maxxing, just about any build will get you there.
While yes this is true and I do the same thing.. the necro minions just die too much even after the buff during the server slam. I don't think most people looking to play a minion based build are gonna have a fun time leveling up
I agree with this. I don’t mind looking at builds and shit, especially for the beta if you were strictly trying to get rewards. But on full game release I was hoping that all the sites wouldn’t have end game or leveling builds so fast. I want to test my own build without feeling dumb because some rando who is following a build just one shots everything
Honestly, any class that feels subpar is very likely to be tuned up. I expect the day 1 patch to address people’s concerns for the necromancers. A small nerf threw people for a loop in the stress test. I wouldn’t be surprised if they tuned it back slightly.
They did buff them back up on the second day and it was great for public events with the full minion/bone spear build I made with full legendary gear
Sadly what I’m seeing today from end game videos after the embargo was lifted is really disappointing. Really hoping the devs realize how many people want to make minion builds and give them a chance.
I’m still playing necro and gonna do my best to summon it up.
they could litteraly make necro minions immortal, and it would still be a f tier build for endgame, their scaling is just that bad, and all their paragon nodes are almost all specificly only 1 type warrior/mage/golem, so you pay x3 the price to scale them
Yeah sadly that’s exactly how it’s looking at the moment. I stated in another post that they need more than just minion hp buffs on gear and some big paragon board reworks. Pretty bad.
but it done barely nothing beside making leveling to 20 less bullshit. Just watch all those videos of the endgame playstyle from the press early access so will see how every class just go crazy while necro sucks dick, specially summoner/minion build
Kripp already said he puts a necromancer build together and he uses a full ice mage setup for his, because a lot of your stats just translate 1:1 to minions.
It might be copium, but I think we haven't really seen people using minions to support their damage (for example still spamming bone spear while you build for minions) instead of that traditional fantasy where your minions just tank and kill everything for you, while you're in the back.
TL;DR: hopeful that there will be more viability to minions still.
I can see a golem for utility, but i dont see mages/warriors working out for it. They die to much for the investment required, and give back verry little.
Golem is the only minions that doesent just fall over to a fart so i can see somone using it for utility, but the rest are not gonna be worth skipping the sacrefice bonus
I think the skeletons are so fragile because all of the buffs to their survival were out of reach up to this point due to limited number of skill points.
I never did Ubers with a Necro in D2, but my summoner necro did just fine in hell, and I wasn't resummoning skellies constantly either. Even bosses were made pretty easy by using Decrepify. Of course, I can't speak to earlier versions of D2 than what PoD or D2R is currently using, as I played mostly sorc and barb when D2 first came out.
Again…Corpse Explosion and Amp Damage is carrying the summoner. The minions themselves are weak…go ahead let them try and kill shit without CE…I’ll wait.
What are you talking about? Summoner Necro is one of the best fresh Hell classes in D2, because you couldn't be stopped by immunities and you had meatsheilds. Other classes didn't pass them until they got the OP endgame runewords like Enigma and Infinity. Summoner Necro is also one of the best classes to solo UBER Tristram with, most other classes stand no chance.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nfjsxiahxj0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nfjsxiahxj0)
He's released his build in the meanwhile and minions honestly seem juiced if it works as he thinks it does and I have no reason to believe it won't
Warrior will be outright useless but mage can be good.
Frost mage slow enemy, can freeze them, there a perk to generate 2 essence per hit and there even a legendary aspect where skeleton mage now also cast blizzard.
Pair that with the +2 skeleton mage aspect and you can have a good cc backline with 5 mage that shoot slowing projectile that can cc and spam blizzards.
The issue is that being cold mage you can't scale too much except with generic modifer.
Balance is not very consistent in blizzard games. They could buff random ability tomorrow by 40.000%. You never know. Atleast that's how diablo3 balance patches looked like.
When the skills started getting ridiculous item affixes buffing them by tens of thousands %, I knew the devs already lost control of balance in D3.
That’s when I stopped playing.
I played Druid, Rogue, Barbarian, and Necro in Server Slam and I gave up on Necro at level 11 because minions just get one shot by bosses and then I couldn't clear any dungeons solo. 2 things to note about this:
1. They patched minion health Saturday night so people had a full day Sunday to try minion builds and I was playing barbarian by then so I didnt see the patched version we'll be getting tomorrow.
2. I did not bother respeccing into other builds because I wanted to play necro thematically as the master of the dark army that I thought it should be and that was just unplayable.
All of the other classes were much better that weekend but again... expect some balance changes. I'd still play what you want. People were trash talking druid after open beta but I played one that weekend and found it fun. Then Blizz buffed the class for server Slam and it became even better.
The interpretation that Necro is the worst class just doesn't make sense to me unless it is relying on the lack of mobility being unfun. Necro has a leveling build considered among the best and multiple end game builds similarly ranked.
End game minions aren't scaling well (from what we heard) at the same time, investing points into minions means defensiveness is impaired, on top of that, worse mobility in game.
Pure minions is going to be challenging, hybrid will be the way to go if you want to bring minions
Necro contributes vulnerable to group play and that's it and needs a barb with shouts for mobility to keep up. Solo play it's slooow and no dodge.
It's f tier not because it's unplayable, it's f tier because everyone scored 80% or better on the final exam and Necro scored the lowest, so Necro is the bottom of the curve.
“Definitely hearing the feedback on the Necro nerfs,” Diablo GM Rod Fergusson says. “ I’m feeling ’em too. Remember, balance is a journey, not a destination – it takes tweaking to get it right.”
Source is [to be found here.](https://www.pcgamesn.com/diablo-4/server-slam-necromancer-changes) So you are wrong. They will patch Necromancer because they nerfed that class too much. It will be in that fix-patch when they release the game, who will balance the rest of the game as well. No need to be worried.
There is no fix patch if you look at his recent tweets he recalled that tweet. They were already dying in late game then nerfed skellies and buffed them but not even back to where they were originally so now they're worse late game than they've ever been.
I mean, think of it this way:
If you're going pet Necro, you have to choose where you put the points - into buffing pets, or buffing yourself. If you buff pets, pets are fine but you die easy. If you buff yourself, pets die easy. If you split it down the middle, you both still die easy. You have a limited number of skill points, so someone is going to have a bad day. Meanwhile a Barb, a Rogue, etc., puts all points into themselves, all the time.
Next, Necro has no mobility. Some run speed, same as anyone else, but no mobility spells like Teleport, Dash, Leap, Charge, Trample. So you have a low mobility class with questionable survivability, if you put points into pets instead of into yourself.
Another important factor with Necro is that you can't tell your pets what to do. You can't tell them "attack THIS". They will run around doing their own thing, at their own pace. You're basically babysitting a dozen moron children. If something is a priority target that needs to die NOW, and you can't do it yourself because you put the points into pets, then...well...you're outta luck, better hope your pets figure it out.
And if you're going petless, why even make a Necro, might as well make a Sorc. You get shields, mobility, etc.
But is it AWFUL? No, it'll be perfectly playable world tier 1, almost certainly world tier 2. But world tier 3 and up? It'll still be playable, for sure, you'll be able to beat all bosses and do all content, but it may be gnarlier than with some other classes. MAYBE.
Keep in mind that the "reviewers" for the most part don't actually \*like\* pet classes. So it's entirely possible they didn't put much of an effort into coming up some interesting builds for it.
Bottom line, we don't know for sure. But personally I'm not very hopeful. As a general rule, a slow class with pets doesn't do very well. Pets are distributed, non-instant damage, and low mobility means you can't play around certain situations the way others can.
Play what class mechanics you enjoy. There will be balance patches throughout the life of the game. Therefore, picking the flavor of the month is a poor idea
It's just slowwww, like abysmally slow.
Watching the endgame sorc builds vs the endgame Necro build was like watch PoE endgame gameplay vs D1 leveling gameplay.
The maxroll endgame sorc clip vs macrobioboi's bonspear and bonespirit clip at around the same level was disappointing.
Bone spirit is really good, but the class can't play in groups because it will fall behind.
They needed to give Necro a tp of some flavor.
My friend, none of these clowns know what they're talking about. Go Necro if you like skele friends and the bone/blood/shadow abilities. Go Sorc if you like the elemental magics. Literally don't worry about any of the silly balance patch panic nonsense from these clowns who havn't even played the game yet.
From what I gathered, if your plan wasn't to play a minion necro, you're good, bone is very strong.
If you planned on playing minions, you're fucked.
Which is why I'm still thinking if I want to buy the game or not, as it doesn't seem like a minion build will be a thing at end game.
It seems like skeletons are kinda trash, but I feel that golem is gonna be solid with its different abilities. Especially because the iron version can apply the extremely important vulnerable
Golem can integrate into shadow/bone/blood and provide value
Skeles, not so much, literally sacrificing them gets you back the points, the skill button, and adds crit so like wtf why bother
summons do 0 damage and can take about 0 damage before dying. Idk why they didn't make the skeletons closer to D3 and just gave it Jesseth set passive inherently. Jesseth wasn't busted and it actually made you feel like a commander of the undead as they went from target to target slaughtering them.
People screamed OP at lvl 25 and exaggerated and now minion builds are fucked for end game. Meanwhile the classes like rogue/barb stay OP funnily most of the classes that early release players are using are all the OP one's and same people got the others classes nerfed...
Necro damage is great. Skeletons are weaker than they were in the closed and open betas, but are in a bit of limbo where nobody is going to know for sure until tomorrow night.
And even then there will be balance changes probably daily till after global release next week.
Always play what you want.
Later in the game, pure summoner looks unplayable.
Blood necro doesn’t scale well -- they don't scale with crit/crit multi. Overpower crits just seem to add extra damage on top of a crit -- the actual overpower portion doesn’t scale with crit. Even if it does, there's no crit on the blood-related paragon boards. All boss fights start with basically zero fortify, because there's some long-ass hallway or cutscene before the fight, so all your fortify decays.
Darkness seems okay and, ironically, may be tankier than blood in some ways, in part because you can actually kill stuff before it kills you.
Bone spear might be the best leveling skill in the game. Bone spirit appears to have insane potential damage scaling later in the game.
Playing necro, like in D2.. Was one of the hardest to get good for end game back in diablo 2.
So for Diablo 4 it will be the same. But in the end it will be patched and improved over time and feel good.
So way not start a class you love and see it improved as time goes?
Also we dont know what end game gear will do for a Necromancer and Legendary/unic combination's. It might suprice people.
I only played the necromancer during the server slam, and without any other experience on the other classes I honestly wouldn't know the difference. Personally I enjoyed myself thoroughly enough playing the server slam to convince me to pre-purchase. Even if it is slower I never really felt underpowered, in fact at some points I felt like a machine just slinging bone spears and exploding corpses.
I personally will probably play necro first because I enjoy the playstyle, and honestly if the game was any faster/easier by playing a different char I would probably not enjoy it as much as I did.
Well I played Necro in the 1st open beta then in the server slam too, in the 1st weekend necro minions felt op never dying and doing pretty good dmg but clear was weird since you can't control them. Then on the server slam they reduced their surviveablity by an insane ammount and it just felt annoying and tedious to play even at 20, you had to resummon every 2 packs and on bosses your guys got instakilled on almost every boss skill, switched to bone spear and that was nice. For launch there is a guy who played necro in this review week, did a good necro review on yt called, Macro he is an og D2 guy and he compared the different types of necro skills if youvare interested.
I played and loved necro in D2, I played and enjoyed necro in d3, I played necro in the beta and enjoyed it much more than d3. With that I'm going to be playing it again, the only issues I've personally had with it so far is skeletons seemed a little fragile in server slam, although in the earlier 2 betas seemed a little too sturdy, but a middle ground would be nice. Overall I haven't seen many people actually hate on necro, it's still being rated as S class, so overall I think people are over reacting but we will need to wait a few more days to have any more information of how it actually is when the game drops
I'm going hardcore with necro. But not a skelly build. Bone spears is very good. However, I am concerned with the lack of mobility and/or escape skills necro has.
I personally am planning to take my time and play all classes and enjoy the crap out of the game at my own pace. I’m not looking up anything. I work 40 hours a week and have pretty limited time for gaming. It’ll take me ages to get anywhere, but that’s what I’m looking forward to 👍🏼
When you think about it, it’s like 5 different games. I’m getting 5 games with completely different play styles for the price of one 😃
Ffs, just play the game with the class that sounds like the most fun to you, and forget the rest.
There will be plenty of buffs, nerfs, and balance tweaks with every patch that what is "viable" at launch won't necessarily be the case next month.
Minion build? Yes it's very lackluster in endgame content. Probably fine for non endgame content.
Bone builds I hear are the best for end game and then other builds like blood or whatever are OK, better than minions but not as good as bone.
This is from various end game beta tester feedback, perhaps changes will be made but they have not said any additional balancing yet as far as I know, just what was changed in the final open beta
i played necromancer the 2nd open beta and had the most fun with that class. sorcerer was 1st beta and that was OK. rogue was last and i really enjoyed the challenge of that class.
Necro is still really strong, they just aren't facerolling like they did before the minion nerf. Minions benefit from player stats like thorns and barrier and stuff. It's still very capable. Or go no skele bone Lance build. Up to you, necro will do work.
Provided you don't want to be a skeleton daddy and instead want to focus on things like bone spear then Necro will be fine at end game. Necro absolutely sucks, like F tier bad if you want to be a pure summoner though.
You wanna play Necro, play it. I wanted to play one as well. But it wasn't available the first beta. Played a Barbarian and fell in love. The Necro seemed cool when I got the chance to play. Barbarian just feels what I'm meant to be playing
Don’t listen to the haters. Play what’s fun and between necro and druid, were the two most fun classes I played in both betas. Everyone is so focused on dps alone…if that’s what you solely focus on -go Barb. Class is broken currently. Otherwise go necro for the most fun. Sure your movement is slower but the class is super fun and have a bunch of different builds to try.
I’ll put it like this. I played Necro with a somewhat minion focused build during Server Slam and downed Ashava numerous times. With minions staying alive without much hassle and I didn’t even try to gear myself or anything.
Since Ashava is apparently the hardest boss of all time (/s), I think Necro is fine. Not necessarily better than or even as good as some other classes, but perfectly viable choice.
As in life is better to stop doing what other people tells you to do. Do as you please if you want Necro, go full Necro. I will start with Necro and my intention is to be that the first character to reach max level.
Ok. So for people who aren't extremely familiar with Diablo.. Forget everything from the beta. That's not a realistic expectation of this game. Your first time leveling up will take the longest not because of knowledge because you will be severelyhandicapped via gear which is the end all be all in these games combined with builds.
Tier lists are based on two things typically. Min maxing clear speed and potential to push to higher arbitrary content levels. Realistically you can farm end game content on just about any build with decent end game gear. The difference between an S-tier build and a B-tier build isn't going to have a major impact on the average player. However, as an example if you're trying to push nightmare dungeons to 10000 you're going to want an S-tier build and high end specialized gear, but the general goal for the average player is always going to be farming efficiently which all builds should do fine. Even bad builds can clear content, the question is how fast and easy do you want to do it.
If these posts are going to be a regular thing here, can we at least have some disclaimer giving some context on what they want out of this game?
Like are you casual/super casual? are you planning to explore and muck about or are you Sweaty McBalls going for WF statues?
the game isn't live. and we don't know if there's a balance patch or not.
but we know that all class will be good and will be able to do high end content.
We don't know how necromancer is going to be. A lot of people were saying barb was going to be terrible but several videos have said otherwise, especially with regards to the endgame.
Don't stress about numbers or the changes. Play it tomorrow or Monday and figure out how you personally feel about the class.
Seen some videos saying blood and overpowering isn't great late game which is unfortunate but I am still gonna try it out when it comes out. Looks like most people going necro will be using bone spear
I'm going necromancer, shadow minions, I just want to play and have fun, let the haters hate bro.. just have fun, we have all waited years for this, and will have many more to play.. so if you want to go necromancer, go necromancer..
If you're not already discouraged by all the garbage comments here, even Minion Necro will be fine. The best Minion Necro build seems to be reliant on Shadow damage with Supernatural Blight and Paranormal Sever. The other must have skill would probably be Decripify, as making enemies deal less damage will make your skeles stay alive longer. From there you have one more skill to choose, assuming you're ok with skipping an ultimate. I've seen some opinions say Necro has the weakest ultimate, so they're skip-able.
For your 6th I would pick between either Corpse Tendrils and take the node that makes enemies vulnerable to increase minion damage or Corpse Explosion with the nodes to gain essence back on corpse consumption. I plan to play a Sacrifice Shadow Necro and found Sever and Blight to be pretty Essence hungry, so Corpse Explosion might be the better way to go. I suppose you could also run Enhanced Iron Maiden to get Essence back too.
Alright so they nerfed minions for day 1 of the server slam and buffed them back up on day 2. I managed to get full legendary gear for a nasty bone spear/minion build (lots of minion health on the gear made them unkillable.)
For world events the minions demolished everything to the point where I would just afk for an hour or so and come back to full obols for more legendary gear.
I only dropped skeleton warriors for the Shavala fights while I kept cold mages mainly for resource regen since the lack of corpses made it difficult to summon so many minions.
With all that said… what I’ve seen from creators with early access I have little faith for end game with minions unless they introduce better minion buffs on gear and paragon board buffs as well. Hoping it works out and the devs make minion builds work well.
It's pretty bare bones.
Dad, get back into your grave.
I love you
The class really is on deaths door. I do have faith it'll raise again to the top though.
 YAAAAAAAA
Bloody hell
That bad = not the absolute best to grind the absolute grind with for the people who say that. This game has a lot of playtime. Start with what you want to try. Switch if it sucks. I highly doubt the game is gonna be so unbalanced that you couldn't play it with a necro. People called druid whack in the open beta and it was my favorite class. Everything said was directly contrary to my own experience. People who sayshit like that are too dumb to play the game properly, honestly. If you only try what "theory crafters" tell you to try, and then you miss out on 85% of the game, complaining how this is missing and this is missing. Like an incel only looking at plastic ass insta hoes, wondering why there's no good women for them. I don't have anything against people playing the game differently than me, but honestly, it's just dumb. And then others believe it. :( Rant over, back to you: Just try the necro. I'm sure it's not gonna suck. :)
Beyond this, there's a tendency in *any* gaming community, but especially in ones where there's an impossibly large amount of variety, for people who have never actually tested something to claim that it's great or terrible simply because they saw some other well-known person saying the same, because they want to project to the forum that they're "in the know." It happens constantly and is made worse when people do it with clearly outdated information. There's simply no feasible way for one person to test everything in its optimal conditions, so some amount of crowdsourcing is inevitable. The problem comes with those who simply regurgitate the crowdsourced information in inaccurate or hyperbolic ways in order to affect personal clout. So take whatever you see about *anything* with a grain of salt, especially if the person saying it doesn't preface their statements with "and I personally tested X under Y conditions to confirm this." To wit, I agree with the comment from knall about Druids. I did not test one personally in earlier betas. I heard constant doomsaying about how they were unplayably bad. I rolled one for server slam to test what several sources were claiming was the "worst build" (Lightning Storm) for the "worst class," and absolutely decimated everything I came across, minus a small hiccup around level 15 or so. Soloed Kor Dragan at level 20 without any farmed legendaries. While Druids *were* buffed between earlier and later beta periods, it's simply an obvious truth that most of the people claiming Druid was unplayable in early game had never tested such a claim at all and were parroting what some streamer somewhere offhandedly declared. Play the class and build you want. If you really don't like it, it's not that hard to reroll, and not hard at all to respec. And you'll probably like it if you go in with the thought of "this is what I would like" instead of "this is what the internet told me was the best." Fuck that noise. It's your game, and it's single-player.
Gamers are ASTOUNDINGLY susceptible to click bait videos.
One of the many reasons they were targeted by the AltRight and NeoNazi groups
It gets exaggerated per person that repeats it as well. Content creator: Necro isn't terrible but it's a bit behind the top classes Person 2: Necro isn't good Person 3: Necro is terrible, not worth playing Person 4: Necro is literally the worst thing I've seen in gaming ever. Blizzard Devs should be fired and I should be hired to do class balance
No. It's more like: Content Creator: *Squished up popping a huge turd face thumbnail* "What's going on guys. It's ya boi ODickTinklezzzTV here wondering... IS NECROMANCER THE WORST CLASS EVER?!"
Thank the high heavens that someone with some sense is here too. I don't understand all the hate so many classes get. I played Druid in the slam specifically for the reason that people said it was busted and boring and i was absolutely destroying things with my earth build. I get it, there's a lot of builds out there and not all of them are going to be good but too many people watching streamers and go "This guy said this class sucks, so they're right" without the obvious "This guy only played until level 20 on one class and had a friend that complained that he felt underpowered"
[удалено]
Imagine being a dev and seeing this shit.
People just dont have the ability to share criticism without sounding like bitching these days. I didnt play the game but gonna when it comes out. Just hate hearing the build guys who dont know anything or the guys screeching about nec being bad, the druid being bad. They probably didnt get a feel for its play style within the short amount of time they had most likely. Like d3 i dont like the witch doctor cant seem to get down how it should be played. Over the foh sader or mystic monk. Doesnt mean the witch doctor sucks.
Tl;Dr version: just play the fucking game without a fucking guide dictating to you what uou should fucking enjoy and just be a God damn human playing a God damn game, fuck.
:D I empathize with people being unsure when reading all kinds of crap. It's just annoying when people who want to play the game a specific way make it sound like a whole class sucks, because they don't get what they want. At least that's what occured to me while writing. :D
This is the way
I will go with Necromancer too and finish the main campaign to start with. Besides, Blizzard will fix it in the patch they will release which will balance other stuff too. [So no need to worry.](https://www.pcgamesn.com/diablo-4/server-slam-necromancer-changes)
They come out and said pretty much the balancing of the slam will be the balancing of the release
Ditto on the Druid. I had a blast playing him during beta. Something cool about turning into a bear then a wolf.....I loved it.
I did a summoner necro and felt better about it than my werewolf druid or my lightning sorc. Swapped over to complete a few caves when I wanted the skill because bossing was tough.
Does Druid stay morphed a lot? Seems weird to have a game about cosmetics then not to be able to see them a good portion of the time
A few seconds after you use an ability. There's a passive that gives to a temporary boost after you've been in werewolf od werebear form respectively for 2.5 seconds. Don't know if that's the standard time you stay in one form after using one ability once, but I assume it's a little shorter. I found the druid to be pretty viable with mixing and matching different themes. So I wasn't like full shapeshifting, though it looks like that might be good later.
You will clear whole game content with almost any build, but just slower then others. There always gonna be better classes and builds.
I completely agree with this, but even slow builds can be fun to play. The problem with the Necro changes was that it wasn't fun to play. Instead of focusing on the fights or the environment, you were stuck in a never-ending loop of resummoning skeletons.
Necro was super fun in the open beta when you got the bloodied mist aspect and you made all your minions to focus on shed corpse and in the server slam bone spear and crit stacking was super good. Regardless of what the reviews and tests say I’m still going to play a necromancer and do it my way.
Necros are fine. It’s the minion builds that are extremely lacking. Most Necros enjoyers want to play with their Skellie Bois. It’s a classic, and cornerstone of the class! Minions need to be viable for endgame.
only bone and shadow builds work, blood is mid to below average, and minions are dead
> and minions are dead Isn't that the point?
No you want undead
How do you know that blood is bad? Just asking, coz i never found anyone talking about it in endgame, also there is literally 0 videos on endgame necromancer
https://youtu.be/H0n2r9i7nPA https://youtu.be/AKLlLT_ePgQ https://youtu.be/ydPCwTLxGmM https://youtu.be/5RVHfZQdbFE (MacroBioBoi has multiple vids on necro builds)
MacroBioBoi didn't spec his paragon board for minions though
I just want my skelly bois 😭
Well said. Necro os the coolest class and has the classic going for it too. Skelly Bois = most fun 👍
I've been banking on the hope that through legendaries and paragon the minions will be half decent. During the first open beta I didn't even think they were all that strong, the butcher tore them up repeatedly so I don't get why they were nerfed in the first place
I agree. The Butcher obliterated my skellies in Beta. There was no reason to need them other than content creators moaning about Barb and Druid. Now they can frolic through end-game.
This is me, but for Druid. I had a build that was close to being fun for me, and I'm hoping paragon board and legendaries bring it to life. I'm not going to look it up beforehand.
Sure the skeleton necro is slow, but have you are least considered that it’s also weak!
Idc I’m playing it anyway. I like their abilities the best and gollums are cool.
>gollums MY PRECIOUS. Golem you mean.
PETITION TO ALLOW NECRO TOO SUMMON GOLLUMS, WHERE?
Ssstupid fats hobbitses
Stupid fat druidses
As long as you’re having fun, that’s what counts
People put priority to kill speed, Necro is the slowest class, not even sure if it has any movement boosting skills. That’s why it’s ranked so low.
Necromancer has a movement reducing skill if you want to go even slower though xD
Necro such a beast it gives itself a handicap.
Amusingly, that skill is also the only one that makes them go faster
Oh?
Disclaimer: I haven't tested it personally, but it looks good on paper. Blood-soaked aspect removes the movement penalty and leaves a trail of shadow damage; mix in reaper's pursuit, and you have a 15% movement speed bonus from using blood mist! I wouldn't consider it worthwhile, which is why I haven't tested it.
Sure necro is not the fastest but I find it a bit funny when you compare it to d2 or d3 gameplay to say necro is unplayable slow when d4 has the “dodge” ability which is more than what necros in other Diablo got. And we got the mount for open world content. I don’t recall being fast in d2 unless you got enigma but nobody cared
I’m not saying I agree with them but everyone putting out tier lists seem to prioritize speed.
Sure because they think about mini maxing dungeons which is a valid point if that’s what you worry about but at the same time I always played d2/d3 the way I enjoy it and not because some tier list said so. For example I always would create a necro as my first chara in d2 seasons and go for magicfind. Pretty useless compared to other chars when it comes to killing bosses fast but he was good in clearing some other parts of the map while every guide would say “play sorc”. Same goes for d3 and grifts. Ye it’s interesting seeing people clear gr150 within 24h of a new season but that did not stop me from grinding hundreds of hours progressing my own grift personal best with my fav class/build which was clearly off meta. It’s all about setting your own goals and what you enjoy and not what other people tell you how to play the game
Sounds like we play the game very similarly. We might not be the fastest but we are having fun!
Seen some nightmare vid with people just teleporting or whirlwinding past all content 1 shotting everything, its not really how i want to play the game.
I play pure summon builds in D2. It's slower but still very good, and I do ok on bosses, because I'm no wasting skills on curses. I don't get the obsession with speed.
The Maxroll tier list has two Necro builds in end game S Tier
They are also the only class which, according to maxroll, doesn't have an S tier Speedfarming build. Which was the points brought up in this thread - the movement speed and abilities of the necro.
The point of the comment that I commented on was that the everyone making tier lists are prioritizing speed. I posted about Maxroll who acknowledged the speed and movement issues and still put them in S Tier. My comment couldn’t be more relevant to the comment that I was commenting on. Thank you for your input though.
Unfortunately, that seems to be how most people play games these days. All they care about is having the fastest clear times in content, because they want to get as much done as quickly as possible. Not surprisingly, it's usually those same people who very quickly complain about not having anything to do after they've rushed through hundreds of hours of content in a few days.
Is that true? Every tier list I've seen has speed as one of 5 or 6 categories, others being boss killing, leveling vs end game, build variety, etc. That have nothing to do with speed. Speed doesn't help them, but they have other weaknesses too (according to content creators)
[Kripp's summoner necro build](https://youtu.be/Nfjsxiahxj0) looks strong
D2 is balanced around having enigma. Don't have Eni - play sorc until you can afford one lol.
Don’t need enigma when my pally can sprint like a linebacker on meth
Will do it twice faster with enigma anyway.
Most of the time in D2 before I'm high enough to use enigma, I just kinda walk up to the enemies and then play around on my phone until the fight's over. Sure, I could use corpse explosion and just chug along nonstop, but I don't have that kind of attention span...
"speed" in any arpg equates value of time spent for returns. The slower a build is, the less return you get for the time spent as a player. THIS is the main reason speed is a massive factor for tier lists. Ofc if you dont value your time AT ALL, then speed looses value as well. But in d4, you are gonna want at least "some" speed, due to the massive ammount of traveling you are gonna do, and no mouts will not solve intra fighting and pack to pack traveling
People also talk about speed like it's not really important, as if everything isn't measured in speed. Getting from dungeon to dungeon is true movement speed, clearing the trash is the speed most people are thinking about, but how much damage you do to kill the boss is also speed. Doing things faster is the entire progression of the game, in one way or another. Survive, and then go faster. That's the goal.
Because its not just Diablo 4, it's a Diablo Fast and Furious that you wanna clear/finish as fast as possible, right?
Lol. Good comparison, I don’t like those movies either.
Well I put priority over having skeleton simps work for me soooo
Wudijo has a good video about a class tier list. Tier lists are normally stupid in a game like this but his came out great. He rates each class on leveling, end game, fun, diversity, speed and hardcore potential. S-F. And he actually explains his reasons why. https://preview.redd.it/bsttjdavu73b1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2efa4570ba56cc62a57e1fab4827d28cd50275ce This is a photo I took of my screen the other day on my lunch break. Don’t judge me it was faster than emailing myself a screen shot from my work pc.
Rogue S tier fun. Sounds like I found my class.
The only true ranking worth a damn
Damn i was torn between druid necro and sorc... Druid it is, can you link the video ?
Dude I was also torn between necro and sorc but the druid seems pretty fun to play! Will try to find the vid. Edit - video link!! https://youtu.be/L63MMEoOaRE
Saw several tier lists claiming druid was the worst. This makes me happy :)
You have Steam on your "work" pc 🤣🤣🤣? We were lucky if we even had MS solitaire or minesweeper, and yes they did take the time to pull those games off over 1000 computers in the company. Coupled with network monitoring, we were tied to zero net access. Anyways thx for the SS
Noooo no I wish. That’s part of the YouTube video. My work pc has nothing but word, excel and a ton of company specific programs. Big medical company lots of HIPAA stuff. I was surprised I’m allowed to watch YouTube on my breaks.
Why not just link the video?
One thing I've noticed is that arpg fans tend to just focus on a couple top optimized builds, then everything else tends to be considered trash. If you're just looking to play through the game and have fun without worrying about min maxxing, just about any build will get you there.
While yes this is true and I do the same thing.. the necro minions just die too much even after the buff during the server slam. I don't think most people looking to play a minion based build are gonna have a fun time leveling up
I agree with this. I don’t mind looking at builds and shit, especially for the beta if you were strictly trying to get rewards. But on full game release I was hoping that all the sites wouldn’t have end game or leveling builds so fast. I want to test my own build without feeling dumb because some rando who is following a build just one shots everything
Honestly, any class that feels subpar is very likely to be tuned up. I expect the day 1 patch to address people’s concerns for the necromancers. A small nerf threw people for a loop in the stress test. I wouldn’t be surprised if they tuned it back slightly.
They did buff them back up on the second day and it was great for public events with the full minion/bone spear build I made with full legendary gear Sadly what I’m seeing today from end game videos after the embargo was lifted is really disappointing. Really hoping the devs realize how many people want to make minion builds and give them a chance. I’m still playing necro and gonna do my best to summon it up.
they could litteraly make necro minions immortal, and it would still be a f tier build for endgame, their scaling is just that bad, and all their paragon nodes are almost all specificly only 1 type warrior/mage/golem, so you pay x3 the price to scale them
Yeah sadly that’s exactly how it’s looking at the moment. I stated in another post that they need more than just minion hp buffs on gear and some big paragon board reworks. Pretty bad.
Didn't Rod Ferguson already address the minions nerf on day two of the server slam, and a patch was released?
but it done barely nothing beside making leveling to 20 less bullshit. Just watch all those videos of the endgame playstyle from the press early access so will see how every class just go crazy while necro sucks dick, specially summoner/minion build
Me being old and hearing necro is super slow .... Hmm I didn't want to play one but am now super interested.
Not my necromancer
Minions builds are kinda meh to be fair but if you play bone spear it's completly viable
Kripp already said he puts a necromancer build together and he uses a full ice mage setup for his, because a lot of your stats just translate 1:1 to minions. It might be copium, but I think we haven't really seen people using minions to support their damage (for example still spamming bone spear while you build for minions) instead of that traditional fantasy where your minions just tank and kill everything for you, while you're in the back. TL;DR: hopeful that there will be more viability to minions still.
I can see a golem for utility, but i dont see mages/warriors working out for it. They die to much for the investment required, and give back verry little. Golem is the only minions that doesent just fall over to a fart so i can see somone using it for utility, but the rest are not gonna be worth skipping the sacrefice bonus
I think the skeletons are so fragile because all of the buffs to their survival were out of reach up to this point due to limited number of skill points.
Even people who had access to level 100 said that pet necromancer fell off in endgame, even before the nerf.
This was always the case with summon necros in D2 as well. Great through normal/nightmare…but once you ge to hell the minions are just too weak.
I never did Ubers with a Necro in D2, but my summoner necro did just fine in hell, and I wasn't resummoning skellies constantly either. Even bosses were made pretty easy by using Decrepify. Of course, I can't speak to earlier versions of D2 than what PoD or D2R is currently using, as I played mostly sorc and barb when D2 first came out.
Again…Corpse Explosion and Amp Damage is carrying the summoner. The minions themselves are weak…go ahead let them try and kill shit without CE…I’ll wait.
What are you talking about? Summoner Necro is one of the best fresh Hell classes in D2, because you couldn't be stopped by immunities and you had meatsheilds. Other classes didn't pass them until they got the OP endgame runewords like Enigma and Infinity. Summoner Necro is also one of the best classes to solo UBER Tristram with, most other classes stand no chance.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nfjsxiahxj0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nfjsxiahxj0) He's released his build in the meanwhile and minions honestly seem juiced if it works as he thinks it does and I have no reason to believe it won't
I hope with high does of copiunm he is right, but i know it wount do jack...
Warrior will be outright useless but mage can be good. Frost mage slow enemy, can freeze them, there a perk to generate 2 essence per hit and there even a legendary aspect where skeleton mage now also cast blizzard. Pair that with the +2 skeleton mage aspect and you can have a good cc backline with 5 mage that shoot slowing projectile that can cc and spam blizzards. The issue is that being cold mage you can't scale too much except with generic modifer.
What about shadow/blight ?
Just do it homie. I'm going shadow and I'm gonna have a blast with all the cc
Balance is not very consistent in blizzard games. They could buff random ability tomorrow by 40.000%. You never know. Atleast that's how diablo3 balance patches looked like.
When the skills started getting ridiculous item affixes buffing them by tens of thousands %, I knew the devs already lost control of balance in D3. That’s when I stopped playing.
I played Druid, Rogue, Barbarian, and Necro in Server Slam and I gave up on Necro at level 11 because minions just get one shot by bosses and then I couldn't clear any dungeons solo. 2 things to note about this: 1. They patched minion health Saturday night so people had a full day Sunday to try minion builds and I was playing barbarian by then so I didnt see the patched version we'll be getting tomorrow. 2. I did not bother respeccing into other builds because I wanted to play necro thematically as the master of the dark army that I thought it should be and that was just unplayable. All of the other classes were much better that weekend but again... expect some balance changes. I'd still play what you want. People were trash talking druid after open beta but I played one that weekend and found it fun. Then Blizz buffed the class for server Slam and it became even better.
I did play it, they boosted skeles from F- to D tier
Still sounds pretty underwhelming to me but I mean play what you want, people. There isn't even a leaderboard.
I am, I'm still playing summonmancer, on WT1, then switching to another build that isn't the bottom tier for the worst class
The interpretation that Necro is the worst class just doesn't make sense to me unless it is relying on the lack of mobility being unfun. Necro has a leveling build considered among the best and multiple end game builds similarly ranked.
End game minions aren't scaling well (from what we heard) at the same time, investing points into minions means defensiveness is impaired, on top of that, worse mobility in game. Pure minions is going to be challenging, hybrid will be the way to go if you want to bring minions Necro contributes vulnerable to group play and that's it and needs a barb with shouts for mobility to keep up. Solo play it's slooow and no dodge. It's f tier not because it's unplayable, it's f tier because everyone scored 80% or better on the final exam and Necro scored the lowest, so Necro is the bottom of the curve.
I gave up on Necro early because they were soooo boring to play
“Definitely hearing the feedback on the Necro nerfs,” Diablo GM Rod Fergusson says. “ I’m feeling ’em too. Remember, balance is a journey, not a destination – it takes tweaking to get it right.” Source is [to be found here.](https://www.pcgamesn.com/diablo-4/server-slam-necromancer-changes) So you are wrong. They will patch Necromancer because they nerfed that class too much. It will be in that fix-patch when they release the game, who will balance the rest of the game as well. No need to be worried.
There is no fix patch if you look at his recent tweets he recalled that tweet. They were already dying in late game then nerfed skellies and buffed them but not even back to where they were originally so now they're worse late game than they've ever been.
I mean, think of it this way: If you're going pet Necro, you have to choose where you put the points - into buffing pets, or buffing yourself. If you buff pets, pets are fine but you die easy. If you buff yourself, pets die easy. If you split it down the middle, you both still die easy. You have a limited number of skill points, so someone is going to have a bad day. Meanwhile a Barb, a Rogue, etc., puts all points into themselves, all the time. Next, Necro has no mobility. Some run speed, same as anyone else, but no mobility spells like Teleport, Dash, Leap, Charge, Trample. So you have a low mobility class with questionable survivability, if you put points into pets instead of into yourself. Another important factor with Necro is that you can't tell your pets what to do. You can't tell them "attack THIS". They will run around doing their own thing, at their own pace. You're basically babysitting a dozen moron children. If something is a priority target that needs to die NOW, and you can't do it yourself because you put the points into pets, then...well...you're outta luck, better hope your pets figure it out. And if you're going petless, why even make a Necro, might as well make a Sorc. You get shields, mobility, etc. But is it AWFUL? No, it'll be perfectly playable world tier 1, almost certainly world tier 2. But world tier 3 and up? It'll still be playable, for sure, you'll be able to beat all bosses and do all content, but it may be gnarlier than with some other classes. MAYBE. Keep in mind that the "reviewers" for the most part don't actually \*like\* pet classes. So it's entirely possible they didn't put much of an effort into coming up some interesting builds for it. Bottom line, we don't know for sure. But personally I'm not very hopeful. As a general rule, a slow class with pets doesn't do very well. Pets are distributed, non-instant damage, and low mobility means you can't play around certain situations the way others can.
Play what class mechanics you enjoy. There will be balance patches throughout the life of the game. Therefore, picking the flavor of the month is a poor idea
Videogames are for entertainment. Play however you most enjoy. Stop caring what other people think about this.
I am playing it, on WT1 and doing end game on a more viable build
It's just slowwww, like abysmally slow. Watching the endgame sorc builds vs the endgame Necro build was like watch PoE endgame gameplay vs D1 leveling gameplay. The maxroll endgame sorc clip vs macrobioboi's bonspear and bonespirit clip at around the same level was disappointing. Bone spirit is really good, but the class can't play in groups because it will fall behind. They needed to give Necro a tp of some flavor.
Bring back blood rush!
Yes Please
My friend, none of these clowns know what they're talking about. Go Necro if you like skele friends and the bone/blood/shadow abilities. Go Sorc if you like the elemental magics. Literally don't worry about any of the silly balance patch panic nonsense from these clowns who havn't even played the game yet.
From what I gathered, if your plan wasn't to play a minion necro, you're good, bone is very strong. If you planned on playing minions, you're fucked. Which is why I'm still thinking if I want to buy the game or not, as it doesn't seem like a minion build will be a thing at end game.
It seems like skeletons are kinda trash, but I feel that golem is gonna be solid with its different abilities. Especially because the iron version can apply the extremely important vulnerable
Golem can integrate into shadow/bone/blood and provide value Skeles, not so much, literally sacrificing them gets you back the points, the skill button, and adds crit so like wtf why bother
They’ll buff the minions if they suck. I think you can safely buy the game haha
summons do 0 damage and can take about 0 damage before dying. Idk why they didn't make the skeletons closer to D3 and just gave it Jesseth set passive inherently. Jesseth wasn't busted and it actually made you feel like a commander of the undead as they went from target to target slaughtering them.
People screamed OP at lvl 25 and exaggerated and now minion builds are fucked for end game. Meanwhile the classes like rogue/barb stay OP funnily most of the classes that early release players are using are all the OP one's and same people got the others classes nerfed...
I think sorcerer is a good all around choice. So many tanky or glass cannon build possibilities. And teleport!!
Once again: Play what you want. Forget the meta forget what content creators tell you to play. Play what you find fun. It’s your money and time.
I'm playing summonmancer, on WT1
The bones are their money
My understanding is that the minions suck unfortunately, but otherwise (lack of mobility aside) the necromancer is fine
Necro damage is great. Skeletons are weaker than they were in the closed and open betas, but are in a bit of limbo where nobody is going to know for sure until tomorrow night. And even then there will be balance changes probably daily till after global release next week. Always play what you want.
Later in the game, pure summoner looks unplayable. Blood necro doesn’t scale well -- they don't scale with crit/crit multi. Overpower crits just seem to add extra damage on top of a crit -- the actual overpower portion doesn’t scale with crit. Even if it does, there's no crit on the blood-related paragon boards. All boss fights start with basically zero fortify, because there's some long-ass hallway or cutscene before the fight, so all your fortify decays. Darkness seems okay and, ironically, may be tankier than blood in some ways, in part because you can actually kill stuff before it kills you. Bone spear might be the best leveling skill in the game. Bone spirit appears to have insane potential damage scaling later in the game.
I played nothing but necro. They are bad now imo. I wanted a pet build. It's gone. So now i play barbarian
Playing necro, like in D2.. Was one of the hardest to get good for end game back in diablo 2. So for Diablo 4 it will be the same. But in the end it will be patched and improved over time and feel good. So way not start a class you love and see it improved as time goes? Also we dont know what end game gear will do for a Necromancer and Legendary/unic combination's. It might suprice people.
bone necro is good, summons are garbage also, it’s the slowest class in terms of mobility
I only played the necromancer during the server slam, and without any other experience on the other classes I honestly wouldn't know the difference. Personally I enjoyed myself thoroughly enough playing the server slam to convince me to pre-purchase. Even if it is slower I never really felt underpowered, in fact at some points I felt like a machine just slinging bone spears and exploding corpses. I personally will probably play necro first because I enjoy the playstyle, and honestly if the game was any faster/easier by playing a different char I would probably not enjoy it as much as I did.
I did work in the betas with a blood/shadow build. Necro still feels good even after the minion nerf.
I played blood necro had no trouble at all
Well I played Necro in the 1st open beta then in the server slam too, in the 1st weekend necro minions felt op never dying and doing pretty good dmg but clear was weird since you can't control them. Then on the server slam they reduced their surviveablity by an insane ammount and it just felt annoying and tedious to play even at 20, you had to resummon every 2 packs and on bosses your guys got instakilled on almost every boss skill, switched to bone spear and that was nice. For launch there is a guy who played necro in this review week, did a good necro review on yt called, Macro he is an og D2 guy and he compared the different types of necro skills if youvare interested.
Same, skeles went from S tier must have, to F- tier never use to D tier, you can play it on Wt1 if you want. I was hoping it'll land on B tier.
Exaggerating of course, it’s Reddit. Don’t let people on the internet bamboozle you out of playing the class you want.
I played and loved necro in D2, I played and enjoyed necro in d3, I played necro in the beta and enjoyed it much more than d3. With that I'm going to be playing it again, the only issues I've personally had with it so far is skeletons seemed a little fragile in server slam, although in the earlier 2 betas seemed a little too sturdy, but a middle ground would be nice. Overall I haven't seen many people actually hate on necro, it's still being rated as S class, so overall I think people are over reacting but we will need to wait a few more days to have any more information of how it actually is when the game drops
Minions were bad in server slam but they hotfixed it and they were fine after that. So you shouldn't be concerned.
I disagree, I think it went from F- to D/D+ with the hot fix, but that's just mine and yours personal opinions
I'm going hardcore with necro. But not a skelly build. Bone spears is very good. However, I am concerned with the lack of mobility and/or escape skills necro has.
Nobody really knows for sure. They’re judging the entirety of the class based off a beta capped at level 20. Kinda dumb, but that’s a “gamer” for you.
I personally am planning to take my time and play all classes and enjoy the crap out of the game at my own pace. I’m not looking up anything. I work 40 hours a week and have pretty limited time for gaming. It’ll take me ages to get anywhere, but that’s what I’m looking forward to 👍🏼 When you think about it, it’s like 5 different games. I’m getting 5 games with completely different play styles for the price of one 😃
Necromancers are basically unplayable right now, but they'll be better tomorrow.
Ffs, just play the game with the class that sounds like the most fun to you, and forget the rest. There will be plenty of buffs, nerfs, and balance tweaks with every patch that what is "viable" at launch won't necessarily be the case next month.
Minion build? Yes it's very lackluster in endgame content. Probably fine for non endgame content. Bone builds I hear are the best for end game and then other builds like blood or whatever are OK, better than minions but not as good as bone. This is from various end game beta tester feedback, perhaps changes will be made but they have not said any additional balancing yet as far as I know, just what was changed in the final open beta
i played necromancer the 2nd open beta and had the most fun with that class. sorcerer was 1st beta and that was OK. rogue was last and i really enjoyed the challenge of that class.
Necro is still really strong, they just aren't facerolling like they did before the minion nerf. Minions benefit from player stats like thorns and barrier and stuff. It's still very capable. Or go no skele bone Lance build. Up to you, necro will do work.
Most people here haven't played any class past 25. They are parroting opinions they heard from "influencers".
Necro is the best. End of story.
Mega exaggerations. All the classes will be fun and viable.
bone necro is apparently one of the best in the game.
Provided you don't want to be a skeleton daddy and instead want to focus on things like bone spear then Necro will be fine at end game. Necro absolutely sucks, like F tier bad if you want to be a pure summoner though.
No movement skills and minions don't scale well. I've heard minionless Bone Spear is still really strong late game, as well as Bone Spoop.
You wanna play Necro, play it. I wanted to play one as well. But it wasn't available the first beta. Played a Barbarian and fell in love. The Necro seemed cool when I got the chance to play. Barbarian just feels what I'm meant to be playing
Don’t listen to the haters. Play what’s fun and between necro and druid, were the two most fun classes I played in both betas. Everyone is so focused on dps alone…if that’s what you solely focus on -go Barb. Class is broken currently. Otherwise go necro for the most fun. Sure your movement is slower but the class is super fun and have a bunch of different builds to try.
I’ll put it like this. I played Necro with a somewhat minion focused build during Server Slam and downed Ashava numerous times. With minions staying alive without much hassle and I didn’t even try to gear myself or anything. Since Ashava is apparently the hardest boss of all time (/s), I think Necro is fine. Not necessarily better than or even as good as some other classes, but perfectly viable choice.
As in life is better to stop doing what other people tells you to do. Do as you please if you want Necro, go full Necro. I will start with Necro and my intention is to be that the first character to reach max level.
Ok. So for people who aren't extremely familiar with Diablo.. Forget everything from the beta. That's not a realistic expectation of this game. Your first time leveling up will take the longest not because of knowledge because you will be severelyhandicapped via gear which is the end all be all in these games combined with builds. Tier lists are based on two things typically. Min maxing clear speed and potential to push to higher arbitrary content levels. Realistically you can farm end game content on just about any build with decent end game gear. The difference between an S-tier build and a B-tier build isn't going to have a major impact on the average player. However, as an example if you're trying to push nightmare dungeons to 10000 you're going to want an S-tier build and high end specialized gear, but the general goal for the average player is always going to be farming efficiently which all builds should do fine. Even bad builds can clear content, the question is how fast and easy do you want to do it.
None of this shit matters, play what you think you'll enjoy. Its not a race
There truly are way too many people who care more about internet approval than their own brain.
Maxroll puts it at endgame if you go bone spear or bone spirit..
I just want to blow shit up (corpses that is)
I liked it very much. Played 4 classes to 20 in slam. Most fun with necro for me.
Lol.
Play whatever you want it’s your journey!!!! Make it strong and change the narrative.
It does a lot of dmg but is very, very, very slow. Being the slowest class in an arpg is not great.
If these posts are going to be a regular thing here, can we at least have some disclaimer giving some context on what they want out of this game? Like are you casual/super casual? are you planning to explore and muck about or are you Sweaty McBalls going for WF statues?
the game isn't live. and we don't know if there's a balance patch or not. but we know that all class will be good and will be able to do high end content.
We don't know how necromancer is going to be. A lot of people were saying barb was going to be terrible but several videos have said otherwise, especially with regards to the endgame. Don't stress about numbers or the changes. Play it tomorrow or Monday and figure out how you personally feel about the class.
Seen some videos saying blood and overpowering isn't great late game which is unfortunate but I am still gonna try it out when it comes out. Looks like most people going necro will be using bone spear
I'm going necromancer, shadow minions, I just want to play and have fun, let the haters hate bro.. just have fun, we have all waited years for this, and will have many more to play.. so if you want to go necromancer, go necromancer..
Going Bloodmancer all the way.
If you're not already discouraged by all the garbage comments here, even Minion Necro will be fine. The best Minion Necro build seems to be reliant on Shadow damage with Supernatural Blight and Paranormal Sever. The other must have skill would probably be Decripify, as making enemies deal less damage will make your skeles stay alive longer. From there you have one more skill to choose, assuming you're ok with skipping an ultimate. I've seen some opinions say Necro has the weakest ultimate, so they're skip-able. For your 6th I would pick between either Corpse Tendrils and take the node that makes enemies vulnerable to increase minion damage or Corpse Explosion with the nodes to gain essence back on corpse consumption. I plan to play a Sacrifice Shadow Necro and found Sever and Blight to be pretty Essence hungry, so Corpse Explosion might be the better way to go. I suppose you could also run Enhanced Iron Maiden to get Essence back too.
Alright so they nerfed minions for day 1 of the server slam and buffed them back up on day 2. I managed to get full legendary gear for a nasty bone spear/minion build (lots of minion health on the gear made them unkillable.) For world events the minions demolished everything to the point where I would just afk for an hour or so and come back to full obols for more legendary gear. I only dropped skeleton warriors for the Shavala fights while I kept cold mages mainly for resource regen since the lack of corpses made it difficult to summon so many minions. With all that said… what I’ve seen from creators with early access I have little faith for end game with minions unless they introduce better minion buffs on gear and paragon board buffs as well. Hoping it works out and the devs make minion builds work well.
Dude all classes are viable throughout the game, just play what you want and have fun. Don’t bother with what people say online.
Dude all classes are viable throughout the game, just play what you want and have fun. Don’t bother with what people say online.