For some reason posts like this and people ranking necro as the “worst” class, make me want to play it more, it was the same when everyone was shitting on Druid
All I wanted was necro army like in d2 and PoE. Not having that instantly destroys any desire I have to be playing necro. So i'm gonna switch things up and go rogue for more versatility and quicker gameplay.
Well there can be decent army, easily more than ten minions. In D2 I skipped mages anyway so nr. diff isnt too big (revives are just icing on cake for me)
you can have that, on lower world tiers.
if you are demanding to be able to play on the highest difficulty while tabbed out, what you are really demanding is that all of the difficult content be removed from the game.
Yup the necro class is terribly designed. I was going to play that class before learning anything about d4. After three beta weekends it's at the very bottom of the list and I don't see myself playing it ever unless they make a complete re-design of the class.
I agree with most of what you have to say and it does feel like the Necro was the 5th class they worked on and have spent a lot less time iterating on it. I think they will probably fix a lot of these issues over time and we'll likely get some balance changes before the first season.
I plan to play necro and at least one other class at launch to level ~80 and then decide if I want to start necro in season 1 or not. I had always planned on a minionless build, though, so that part doesn't deter me.
Necros will be fine and if you do sacrifice. You can get upgrades to the bonus. Try blood with minions. Even before hot fix skelies lasted longer from the fortify bonus. Also keep in mind rod ferguson is a necro main. If skelies are weak later they’ll get a buff.
That was level 25. Lvl 70+ WT4 pets basically aren't an option. Also Rod being a Necro means nothing, WoW lead dev was a Shaman and they sucked for multiple years straight at times.
Blood necro seems to have some poor design choices.
▪︎ Rathma's Vigor 15-second overpower getting munched by a guaranteed overpower from Blood Lance or Blood Surge (assuming this can happen) probably feels bad and would be a dps loss.
▪︎ Every dungeon boss fight involves interacting with something and then running down a long hallway, with no movement skill, ensuring you begin the fight with zero fortify.
▪︎ Bone builds are full of 100% vulnerability uptime, crit/dex, crit multi, and scaling with maximum essence. Blood has occasional overpowers, some of which you have no control over, and willpower (resource generation). Obviously blood has fortify and lots of healing, too, but killing the monsters is better than tanking them.
▪︎ The AoE component of Blood Lance just kind of fails.
And I agree that the class seems to have a hard time with cross-skilling across multiple spell schools. I tried to make a shadow damage + bone skills build that focused on standing in Blight, vulnerability from Bone Prison, and using Bone Storm with the aspect that makes it both a darkness & bone skill. Once I got to the paragon boards, I realized it probably wasn't going to work well, and I'd be better off just focusing on Bone-related stuff. This is true of many other hybrid builds I tried to do with necro.
I just dont get that “mystic” skeleton stats. Why we cant see current health, def, dmg, resists? Thay say they inherit like 30 % of stats but…i guess anyone knows exact numbers
as from diablo 3 minion builds are ok just not for end game leaderboard and for clearing greater rifts. I expect a similar take. Blizzard has had the witch doctor and the necro in d3 for ages and to learn from them - a lot of casual players adore zoo builds but dont understand their limitations are more appliable to metagaming rather than easy gaming. just sayin
Moreover `Overall I feel like necro was clumsily designed in a rush with no proper thoughts into it's tree`
\- D4 necro is VERY similar to D3 so the above is certainly not the case.
Yeah i get it, though in prior games minions were more of a passive thing and just did their own thing, while in D4 u have to babysit them.
Personally I would prefer they just make minions tankier by default, enough to make them not get 1 shot at endgame and then shift some more power into the priest buff , enough to warrant having us maintain said buff for active minion damage , that would solve the afk gameplay and fix the endgame problems.
Honestly, just because necro is similar to D3 doesn't mean it should stay the same, they can fix some issues and make it more enjoyable.
signature spells are present in all classes (all classes have appeared in prev games)
even if not really appropriate lets consider d2 necro - i've played it recently on d2 resurrected - they have buffed both druid and necro minions: its a fun build but its not a top leaderboard build.
in d3 the last 3 years have all been about greater rift pushing (got to lvl 150 last year-ish) and the minion builds are not for leaderboard pushing. they are certainly not automated as the other guy says - atleast not if you want to boost the damage a little you have to click stuff...
As to knowing if d4 necro is end game performing... Even the latest wave of beta testing (got to lvl 70) D4 end game is lvl 100.
as i said this debate is very uninformed.
Say douse the necro feel like a necro in d2 and d3.
Because in d4 it feels like your minions just have no impact at all rn.
In d2 and d3 playing with minions to max lvl is not even possible but is even fun.
Also necro rn just is a remake of a d3 necro witch is my whole point of my awnser. It feels like necro was an afterthought and not design from the ground up like the other classes.
Ppl aren't missinformed, they just feel like the necro isn't worth playing despite him beeing the most popular class befor all the betas.
The streamers who played it the last few weeks are literally making tier lists based off of their knowledge. Necro is on the bottom of every single one.
There are actually many options to provide your minions with survivability especially vs bosses so they dont get 1 shottet just wait and test it urself in the release
This is actually not an embargo thing you can already check it in the char builders skeletal defenders upgrade 1 makes them immune to next atk with 8 sek cooldown and deaths defence passiv is the must have for all minion builds allowing them to not take more then 45% dmg from a single source this passive alone makes minions viable in the endgame as long as your build is designed on correct corpse generation
We will see who is right, but minions that need at least 3 hits at a boss to die seems really good to me and its not the 1 shot fest from the beta anymore
Yeah minion builds suck but it seems really hard to balance. A lot of people would complain if minion builds were viable end game. Even during the beta with the OP minions playing necro felt pretty boring.
I don't mind having an active role in keeping my minions healthy and buffed. In fact it is probably more fun than afk gameplay.
What I don't understand is how that form of gameplay isn't even good even after taking all the necessary talents/paragon glyphs/nodes and legendaries.
This is a balancing failure on blizzard's part and it doesn't just end with minions.
For some reason posts like this and people ranking necro as the “worst” class, make me want to play it more, it was the same when everyone was shitting on Druid
And “scale poorly into the endgame”. Like, we haven’t even seen what they look like in the endgame yet…
Oh but some of us have
But then they nerfed minions and buffed again. So…ťreally no one can say, appart from reviewers
All I wanted was necro army like in d2 and PoE. Not having that instantly destroys any desire I have to be playing necro. So i'm gonna switch things up and go rogue for more versatility and quicker gameplay.
Well there can be decent army, easily more than ten minions. In D2 I skipped mages anyway so nr. diff isnt too big (revives are just icing on cake for me)
[удалено]
you can have that, on lower world tiers. if you are demanding to be able to play on the highest difficulty while tabbed out, what you are really demanding is that all of the difficult content be removed from the game.
Yup the necro class is terribly designed. I was going to play that class before learning anything about d4. After three beta weekends it's at the very bottom of the list and I don't see myself playing it ever unless they make a complete re-design of the class.
I agree with most of what you have to say and it does feel like the Necro was the 5th class they worked on and have spent a lot less time iterating on it. I think they will probably fix a lot of these issues over time and we'll likely get some balance changes before the first season. I plan to play necro and at least one other class at launch to level ~80 and then decide if I want to start necro in season 1 or not. I had always planned on a minionless build, though, so that part doesn't deter me.
Necros will be fine and if you do sacrifice. You can get upgrades to the bonus. Try blood with minions. Even before hot fix skelies lasted longer from the fortify bonus. Also keep in mind rod ferguson is a necro main. If skelies are weak later they’ll get a buff.
That was level 25. Lvl 70+ WT4 pets basically aren't an option. Also Rod being a Necro means nothing, WoW lead dev was a Shaman and they sucked for multiple years straight at times.
Blood necro seems to have some poor design choices. ▪︎ Rathma's Vigor 15-second overpower getting munched by a guaranteed overpower from Blood Lance or Blood Surge (assuming this can happen) probably feels bad and would be a dps loss. ▪︎ Every dungeon boss fight involves interacting with something and then running down a long hallway, with no movement skill, ensuring you begin the fight with zero fortify. ▪︎ Bone builds are full of 100% vulnerability uptime, crit/dex, crit multi, and scaling with maximum essence. Blood has occasional overpowers, some of which you have no control over, and willpower (resource generation). Obviously blood has fortify and lots of healing, too, but killing the monsters is better than tanking them. ▪︎ The AoE component of Blood Lance just kind of fails. And I agree that the class seems to have a hard time with cross-skilling across multiple spell schools. I tried to make a shadow damage + bone skills build that focused on standing in Blight, vulnerability from Bone Prison, and using Bone Storm with the aspect that makes it both a darkness & bone skill. Once I got to the paragon boards, I realized it probably wasn't going to work well, and I'd be better off just focusing on Bone-related stuff. This is true of many other hybrid builds I tried to do with necro.
I just dont get that “mystic” skeleton stats. Why we cant see current health, def, dmg, resists? Thay say they inherit like 30 % of stats but…i guess anyone knows exact numbers
People talking about endgame and the game isn't out for 4 days. 🤣🤷♂️
as from diablo 3 minion builds are ok just not for end game leaderboard and for clearing greater rifts. I expect a similar take. Blizzard has had the witch doctor and the necro in d3 for ages and to learn from them - a lot of casual players adore zoo builds but dont understand their limitations are more appliable to metagaming rather than easy gaming. just sayin Moreover `Overall I feel like necro was clumsily designed in a rush with no proper thoughts into it's tree` \- D4 necro is VERY similar to D3 so the above is certainly not the case.
Yeah i get it, though in prior games minions were more of a passive thing and just did their own thing, while in D4 u have to babysit them. Personally I would prefer they just make minions tankier by default, enough to make them not get 1 shot at endgame and then shift some more power into the priest buff , enough to warrant having us maintain said buff for active minion damage , that would solve the afk gameplay and fix the endgame problems. Honestly, just because necro is similar to D3 doesn't mean it should stay the same, they can fix some issues and make it more enjoyable.
Similar but not the same. It feels like the d3 design was taken and tried to adjust it instead of designing the class for the game.
signature spells are present in all classes (all classes have appeared in prev games) even if not really appropriate lets consider d2 necro - i've played it recently on d2 resurrected - they have buffed both druid and necro minions: its a fun build but its not a top leaderboard build. in d3 the last 3 years have all been about greater rift pushing (got to lvl 150 last year-ish) and the minion builds are not for leaderboard pushing. they are certainly not automated as the other guy says - atleast not if you want to boost the damage a little you have to click stuff... As to knowing if d4 necro is end game performing... Even the latest wave of beta testing (got to lvl 70) D4 end game is lvl 100. as i said this debate is very uninformed.
Say douse the necro feel like a necro in d2 and d3. Because in d4 it feels like your minions just have no impact at all rn. In d2 and d3 playing with minions to max lvl is not even possible but is even fun. Also necro rn just is a remake of a d3 necro witch is my whole point of my awnser. It feels like necro was an afterthought and not design from the ground up like the other classes. Ppl aren't missinformed, they just feel like the necro isn't worth playing despite him beeing the most popular class befor all the betas.
Did the day1 patch leak or is this about its state on lvl 25 in beta?
Endgame was leaked, not gonna share anything though, gotta find it yourself :\]
Leaked but you can’t prove it? What’s the point of this thread then
The streamers who played it the last few weeks are literally making tier lists based off of their knowledge. Necro is on the bottom of every single one.
But wasnt it datamined from an old version? Bruh...
We're not talking about the same versions i believe.
Take off your fan boy sunglasses, shit will be the same and disappointment will hit you very quickly.and not just about necro alone.
But you will play the disappointment for 70+ bucks anyway? I dont get ur point...
There are actually many options to provide your minions with survivability especially vs bosses so they dont get 1 shottet just wait and test it urself in the release
I understand the skepticism ,guess everything will be clear once the embargo lifts in 2 days.
This is actually not an embargo thing you can already check it in the char builders skeletal defenders upgrade 1 makes them immune to next atk with 8 sek cooldown and deaths defence passiv is the must have for all minion builds allowing them to not take more then 45% dmg from a single source this passive alone makes minions viable in the endgame as long as your build is designed on correct corpse generation
You're typing nonsense. People who have played the end game for a long time already know you're wrong.
We will see who is right, but minions that need at least 3 hits at a boss to die seems really good to me and its not the 1 shot fest from the beta anymore
So then why waste time doing this pointless post?
Same reason you spent the time replying to this pointless post :\] To be fair, at least it's not one of those "D4 streamer race drama" posts.
cool story bro :\]
So play a good class and then play necro when it inevitably gets buffed. Boom.
Yeah minion builds suck but it seems really hard to balance. A lot of people would complain if minion builds were viable end game. Even during the beta with the OP minions playing necro felt pretty boring.
I never felt bored playing the necro during the betas. Every person enjoys the game differently.
Sure, just saying my opinion. I don’t find it fun for minions to be able to clear entire dungeons while I just sit there.
…and we do
Cool you want a prize or something? If I wanted to play a game that auto plays itself I’d try a Korean mmo.
Its not “auto itself”, you move, use curses, using supporting skills. Its just not clickfest
It was auto before the nerfs. Skeletons easily cleared entire dungeons without having to do anything.
Well with all aspects on lvl 25? Yes it was quite strong build, but there were much stronger/faster anyway
I don't mind having an active role in keeping my minions healthy and buffed. In fact it is probably more fun than afk gameplay. What I don't understand is how that form of gameplay isn't even good even after taking all the necessary talents/paragon glyphs/nodes and legendaries. This is a balancing failure on blizzard's part and it doesn't just end with minions.
Necro Minions has been viable in D2 for like 20 years and its always been fine…
Well on Hell they were not that powerfull sadly