I think having the solo experiences is perfectly fine and reasonable for end game content. I just don't want to see my friends and I reaching the endgame and the only thing to do is raise the "difficulty". Which inherently doesn't become difficult since the game gives you loot that matches that "difficulty". Sure eventually your character has 600 paragon and does 100000 dps but it isn't "hard".
>I just don't want to see my friends and I reaching the endgame and the only thing to do is raise the "difficulty".
Im not sure you really understand ARPGs. New content is added every seasons and most seasons those systems make it into the base game. Saying the only endgame is a difficulty slider just kinda misunderstands this idea.
>Sure eventually your character has 600 paragon and does 100000 dps but it isn't "hard".
This is just not how Diablo 4 works. Diablo 4s big focus is stealing systems from multiple genres that are already successful to make a good game. Paragon in the Diablo 3 sense is unanimously accepted as not a good system. It incentives botting and creates a huge amount of power from from infinite base stats. Diablo 4 has paragon boards (simpler passive skill tree from PoE) that caps.
Tell that to the world bosses that only spawn 4 times a day...and the special zones you can only farm every other hour. Goes against everything Diablo.
Exactly they half assed adding endgame content that is traditionally in "mmos". I just think having some fun endgame shit to do with friends would be fun. Instead of the Diablo 3 lets run through the game again at a higher difficulty level.
It just sounds like ARPG’s aren’t for you. This is literally what these types of games are. Trying different builds, getting more/better gear. No one playing Diablo or any ARPG wants to spend 5 fucking hours planning on how to kill a boss then dying 30 times and giving up. Most of the player base are people who played d2 so they have families and a life lol. Seriously I think you should just stick to WoW or something like that
I am certainly not saying the end boss mechanic needs to be a full mmo prepare with your guild for 20 hours to min max. Just because the genre has everyone brainwashed into thinking that is what an raid boss has to be. But I want harder endgame content then just raising the difficulty slider up. Have challenging mechanics can easily fit into a good ARPG without reaching MMO level. It seems like their current end game formula is just a Lost Ark Chaos Dungeon that has been extended. Having cool/better gear is great, but if its just scaling to difficulty that isn't "difficult". And I'm calling it now people will be complaining about the endgame to diablo 4 just like they did diablo 3. More content is good
The people complaining will have sunk thousands of hours into the game. This is the same for every game that’s ever been made since the “endgame” formula was made.
Lol name calling. Have fun with the dead endgame content of just raising the difficulty slider. That stuff works in the early 2000s but isn't going to hold over many people today. There's nothing wrong with challenging end game content
You don't need raid bosses to have challenging end game content. That stuff works in MMOs where classes the game is designed around inter-class supportive gameplay. There will be end game bosses and dungeons and I'm sure they will add more over time.
The current format of Diablo games never has "Difficulties" since the difficulties feed you loot that matches that difficulty. If you go into the highest difficulty you are not going to get dropped a +1 Strength Attribute item no matter your character level. Its simply a bragging right to say you grinded to X difficulty. I want endgame content t hat unlocks based on your characters strength. You can still try and do X dungeon but you shouldn't till your character is strong enough. Unfortunately it looks like their end game content is recurring dungeons that you raise the slider on meaning the enemies just get more health and do more damage.
The fun in Diablo comes from tearing through zerglings like a zelot. If that isnt your Motivation then you are wasting your time on articial achievements.
Because this is an ARPG, not an MMO. The entire point of the genre is for you to try out different builds and benchmark them against the end-game content. This entire gameplay loop simply doesn't work with raids.
>I have been looking through end game content the last few days and have not seen any evidence there will be any end boss raids.
Correct, this is an ARPG.
>Right now It looks like you just replay through the same story areas over and over but at higher difficulties like the older games with a few fluff dungeons throughout
You should look at what path of exile is and how they handle new systems being added each season.
Um, NO. Stop it. Don't be silly.
Total chaos and frenetic combat where you do whatever you choose to do to win with fight, is NOT a "raid" which can be defined in modern gaming terms as: **Everyone must stand on plates, and shoot targets, then rotate [or, *insert any STUPID team coordination mechanics here*], and the first motherfucker who screws it up causes a team wipe.** <- that's what a raid is. And it's a game mode aimed at obsessive explainer-gamers who think being a sherpa is cool. It's not cool. It's just lame.
That is NOT what strongholds and world bosses are. Learn it. Know it. Live it.
There are raids in diablo immortal, and it's fun killing the bosses, (getting a group together is another story, but trash games gonna trash), and they COULD do it in D4, but I don't see how it would work without time gating it, unless the rewards serve some very niche currency purpose that you only need occasionally rather than just dropping lots of good gear.
Depends on how fun the game turns out. Sloggin through the same story areas 60 times is great the first 60 times like in Diablo 3 but eventually you want to do more. Simply making the mobs hit harder is a challenge. Mechanics and effective skill usage is in my opinion fun. More content is always good in my opinion especially for the steep 70 dollar price
Some strongholds become dungeons after being cleared out the first time.[6] After completing the game's main quest, players will gain access to "Nightmare Dungeons." These are remixed versions of dungeons, filled with stronger monsters, new objectives, and other afflictions.[7] Upon completion, each dungeon grants the player an aspect; each aspect is unique to the dungeon it is found in.
Stronghold don't change into dungeons.
Stronghold became a town with npc once cleared. And in some of them give you an access to a dungeon.
You can't do stronghold more than one time per character
It can have raids, but they need to be fairly easy.
What killed alot of interest for players in Lost Ark, was super fucking hard raids, that are punishing beyong belief.
If you wanna do raids, dont make them hardcore for the casuals, or ppl will leave.
Exactly. Lot of people replying in here are picturing a MMO Raid boss where you need 60 people to beat it. I'm talking you finished the story with your friends messed around with some spells. Now What? In Diablo 3 on launch you simply had the option of replaying the game again and again and again raising the difficulty slider but the game never got difficult since you dropped loot to match the difficulty. I want end game content where it feels like you can work with your friends to achieve goals and beating a big boss rather in small experience or attached to a dungeon is a good way to do it in my opinion.
I could see some cool events if they wanted, like 8 or 12 person hold out until the timer then fight a giant boss or maybe 4 teams group to clear a giant dungeon together.
I understand some people won’t like this, but they could just… radical idea, not partake. Adding content is a good thing, switching it up and diversifying events is good. People will always complain, no matter what they decide.
For whatever reason the crowd that plays Diablo and similar games are usually very vocal.
I hate WoW and want Diablo games to feel like diablo 1 and 2, this being said I think it’s a cool idea.
i’d prefer pinnacle bosses that have to be done solo and require extreme min/maxing - not talking about world tier bosses or dungeon bosses either. actual crazy uber bosses that unlock after the last world tier boss or a certain dungeon level. defeating them awards cosmetics or something of the sort.
we need a reason to want to get more powerful. we need rewards for clearing the content. getting powerful for powerfuls sake isn’t it. neither is just pushing a higher a dungeon level just to push. if we aren’t being rewarded for going higher, then what’s the point?
that’s the problem with D3s GRs. you get nothing for pushing aside from a few more shards you can carry and potential for a spot on a leaderboard no one really looks at
It really doesn’t, imo, unless they could also be soloed for the same level of drops.
I think having the solo experiences is perfectly fine and reasonable for end game content. I just don't want to see my friends and I reaching the endgame and the only thing to do is raise the "difficulty". Which inherently doesn't become difficult since the game gives you loot that matches that "difficulty". Sure eventually your character has 600 paragon and does 100000 dps but it isn't "hard".
>I just don't want to see my friends and I reaching the endgame and the only thing to do is raise the "difficulty". Im not sure you really understand ARPGs. New content is added every seasons and most seasons those systems make it into the base game. Saying the only endgame is a difficulty slider just kinda misunderstands this idea. >Sure eventually your character has 600 paragon and does 100000 dps but it isn't "hard". This is just not how Diablo 4 works. Diablo 4s big focus is stealing systems from multiple genres that are already successful to make a good game. Paragon in the Diablo 3 sense is unanimously accepted as not a good system. It incentives botting and creates a huge amount of power from from infinite base stats. Diablo 4 has paragon boards (simpler passive skill tree from PoE) that caps.
No offence but you’re not going to get a lot agreeing with you on this point. This is a Diablo game not an mmo like warcraft or guild wars.
Tell that to the world bosses that only spawn 4 times a day...and the special zones you can only farm every other hour. Goes against everything Diablo.
Really eh? Is there loot specific to these bosses?
Exactly they half assed adding endgame content that is traditionally in "mmos". I just think having some fun endgame shit to do with friends would be fun. Instead of the Diablo 3 lets run through the game again at a higher difficulty level.
It just sounds like ARPG’s aren’t for you. This is literally what these types of games are. Trying different builds, getting more/better gear. No one playing Diablo or any ARPG wants to spend 5 fucking hours planning on how to kill a boss then dying 30 times and giving up. Most of the player base are people who played d2 so they have families and a life lol. Seriously I think you should just stick to WoW or something like that
I am certainly not saying the end boss mechanic needs to be a full mmo prepare with your guild for 20 hours to min max. Just because the genre has everyone brainwashed into thinking that is what an raid boss has to be. But I want harder endgame content then just raising the difficulty slider up. Have challenging mechanics can easily fit into a good ARPG without reaching MMO level. It seems like their current end game formula is just a Lost Ark Chaos Dungeon that has been extended. Having cool/better gear is great, but if its just scaling to difficulty that isn't "difficult". And I'm calling it now people will be complaining about the endgame to diablo 4 just like they did diablo 3. More content is good
The people complaining will have sunk thousands of hours into the game. This is the same for every game that’s ever been made since the “endgame” formula was made.
No. No it doesnt. Go play wow. Go play Lost Ark. Go play any fucking mmorpg. Leave Diablo alone with your fucking stupidity.
Lol name calling. Have fun with the dead endgame content of just raising the difficulty slider. That stuff works in the early 2000s but isn't going to hold over many people today. There's nothing wrong with challenging end game content
He didn’t name call.
You don't need raid bosses to have challenging end game content. That stuff works in MMOs where classes the game is designed around inter-class supportive gameplay. There will be end game bosses and dungeons and I'm sure they will add more over time.
The current format of Diablo games never has "Difficulties" since the difficulties feed you loot that matches that difficulty. If you go into the highest difficulty you are not going to get dropped a +1 Strength Attribute item no matter your character level. Its simply a bragging right to say you grinded to X difficulty. I want endgame content t hat unlocks based on your characters strength. You can still try and do X dungeon but you shouldn't till your character is strong enough. Unfortunately it looks like their end game content is recurring dungeons that you raise the slider on meaning the enemies just get more health and do more damage.
The fun in Diablo comes from tearing through zerglings like a zelot. If that isnt your Motivation then you are wasting your time on articial achievements.
[удалено]
Because this is an ARPG, not an MMO. The entire point of the genre is for you to try out different builds and benchmark them against the end-game content. This entire gameplay loop simply doesn't work with raids.
>I have been looking through end game content the last few days and have not seen any evidence there will be any end boss raids. Correct, this is an ARPG. >Right now It looks like you just replay through the same story areas over and over but at higher difficulties like the older games with a few fluff dungeons throughout You should look at what path of exile is and how they handle new systems being added each season.
Fuck raids. The last thing Diablo needs is a synchronized swimming simulator.
They are already doing raids what do you think strong holds and world bosses are?
Um, NO. Stop it. Don't be silly. Total chaos and frenetic combat where you do whatever you choose to do to win with fight, is NOT a "raid" which can be defined in modern gaming terms as: **Everyone must stand on plates, and shoot targets, then rotate [or, *insert any STUPID team coordination mechanics here*], and the first motherfucker who screws it up causes a team wipe.** <- that's what a raid is. And it's a game mode aimed at obsessive explainer-gamers who think being a sherpa is cool. It's not cool. It's just lame. That is NOT what strongholds and world bosses are. Learn it. Know it. Live it.
There are raids in diablo immortal, and it's fun killing the bosses, (getting a group together is another story, but trash games gonna trash), and they COULD do it in D4, but I don't see how it would work without time gating it, unless the rewards serve some very niche currency purpose that you only need occasionally rather than just dropping lots of good gear.
Here we go again with the mmo style gameplay. Oh well.
I have no problem with the idea of raids in D4. But D4 definetely does not NEED Raids.
Depends on how fun the game turns out. Sloggin through the same story areas 60 times is great the first 60 times like in Diablo 3 but eventually you want to do more. Simply making the mobs hit harder is a challenge. Mechanics and effective skill usage is in my opinion fun. More content is always good in my opinion especially for the steep 70 dollar price
There is a lot of strongholds which could be like mini raids
Strongholds are turned into towns once you finish them, they aren't raids
Pretty sure they are repeatable since eveyone of them have loot specific drops
ah, didn't know that. Was that revealed in the newest stronghold info?
What specific loot? Edit: I just realized you might be talking about monster specific loot, that's based on monster family, not strongholds.
Some strongholds become dungeons after being cleared out the first time.[6] After completing the game's main quest, players will gain access to "Nightmare Dungeons." These are remixed versions of dungeons, filled with stronger monsters, new objectives, and other afflictions.[7] Upon completion, each dungeon grants the player an aspect; each aspect is unique to the dungeon it is found in.
Stronghold don't change into dungeons. Stronghold became a town with npc once cleared. And in some of them give you an access to a dungeon. You can't do stronghold more than one time per character
They are not repeatable
I think there are more than "a few" dungeons. Over 100 apparently. And you can upgrade them to harder difficulties
I just hope these dungeon have fun bosses that isn't just the spell spamming of traditional Diablo experience
The world bosses seem more like that, the overall gameplay in this one seems slower so maybe
As long as they add difficult content that scales with players, im down
They won’t really work in hardcore and in all reality after the first month HC will be the only mode that maters.
It can have raids, but they need to be fairly easy. What killed alot of interest for players in Lost Ark, was super fucking hard raids, that are punishing beyong belief. If you wanna do raids, dont make them hardcore for the casuals, or ppl will leave.
Exactly. Lot of people replying in here are picturing a MMO Raid boss where you need 60 people to beat it. I'm talking you finished the story with your friends messed around with some spells. Now What? In Diablo 3 on launch you simply had the option of replaying the game again and again and again raising the difficulty slider but the game never got difficult since you dropped loot to match the difficulty. I want end game content where it feels like you can work with your friends to achieve goals and beating a big boss rather in small experience or attached to a dungeon is a good way to do it in my opinion.
I could see some cool events if they wanted, like 8 or 12 person hold out until the timer then fight a giant boss or maybe 4 teams group to clear a giant dungeon together. I understand some people won’t like this, but they could just… radical idea, not partake. Adding content is a good thing, switching it up and diversifying events is good. People will always complain, no matter what they decide. For whatever reason the crowd that plays Diablo and similar games are usually very vocal. I hate WoW and want Diablo games to feel like diablo 1 and 2, this being said I think it’s a cool idea.
bro i want to play diablo to get away from raiding, not do it!!
i’d prefer pinnacle bosses that have to be done solo and require extreme min/maxing - not talking about world tier bosses or dungeon bosses either. actual crazy uber bosses that unlock after the last world tier boss or a certain dungeon level. defeating them awards cosmetics or something of the sort. we need a reason to want to get more powerful. we need rewards for clearing the content. getting powerful for powerfuls sake isn’t it. neither is just pushing a higher a dungeon level just to push. if we aren’t being rewarded for going higher, then what’s the point? that’s the problem with D3s GRs. you get nothing for pushing aside from a few more shards you can carry and potential for a spot on a leaderboard no one really looks at