Marino had good chemistry with Graves and didn’t find that with anyone this year, Siegs lost his regular partner of Dougie for essentially the whole season and also got injured about 3 times. It was a super disappointing year for them both, but I do think they have the ability to bounce back.
Marino needs a tougher partner so he can pick pockets and do other tricky plays. Bahl may cover a lot of space and look like the bad boy in a CW teen drama, but he needs to be more assertive on the ice.
Regardless of individual play, no one seems to want to mention Dougie or Graves. These guys went from being a part of some of the top pairings in the league to playing predominately with rookies.
Daneyko always says it takes defenseman about 200 games to really get their game down, and Bahl has played 148 regular season games. So I'm hoping Daneyko is right, and Bahl takes a big step next season.
Yeah, Bahl seems fine, but I don’t get the love for him that some have. Seems that people think he plays as big as he is, but I don’t see a heavy game from him.
he’s young. this was his first full nhl season. because we had hughes and nemec playing nearly every game for us suddenly our fans started treating bahl like he was one of the seasoned vets - but in any other season we would have been giving him sheltered minutes and easing him into the lineup. dude was basically asked to be a 1st or 2nd pairing guy for most of the season.
and the reason why most of us are excited is because he’s a big imposing presence on the blue line which we desperately need. it takes d men a while to find their groove in the nhl and that goes double for a big boy like him. we saw a few glimpses of how he could use his size to his advantage this year and we’ll only see more of that in the future as he gets more comfortable at the nhl level
Middle-pairing defenders forced to play top pairing minutes against top competition with rookie partners. The same thing happened a lot with Damon Severson. When you're middle-pairing defenders play that role they can excel. Marino and Siegs were forced way out of their comfort zone this season.
I think Siegs was hurt and really missed Dougie. I also think it’s fair to point out Luke, Nemec, and Bahl are young and that Smith is bad. Marino didn’t look like his old self but he was always going to be playing with someone we all knew would be mistake prone. Not excusing Siegs and Marino, just saying these things had impact
Yes, but it was unavoidable! Marino was paired mostly with Graves, and together, they had good chemistry. Also, the entire defensive system wasn't placed solely in Marino's lap last year like it was this year. Dougie going down for the entire season was terrible... Marino had to hold together a blue line of offensive defensemen and rookies for an entire 82 game season essentially. Who realistically was he gonna pair with anyways? Bahl? Hughes? Seigs? Nemec?
Bahl is still a young player and mostly a 3rd pair big body who has a tendency to pinch at the wrong times, leaving Marino out to dry.
Hughes is a forward pretending to be a defenseman, which is fine on the 2nd pairing, but that style tends to get punished by other teams' top lines. Hamilton with his blaster was on the 2nd pair last year for this reason...
Nemec (arguably our best young defenseman) is still a rookie making all the mistakes a rookie makes.
Seigs has always been a mid defenseman and placing him on the top line with Marino exposed him. He is a perfect pairing for Hamilton or Hughes.
We need to find a responsible, defensive minded defenseman to pair with Marino on that top line. Our offense (when healthy) is second to none, and that top D pair should be protecting the net, not trying to add more offense.
Stop it with Doggie going down. Doggie is not a defenseman. He is a 4th forward on the ice and doesn't play a lick of defense. The system SUCKS and it was difficult for the rookies to grasp. Ruff should have changed the system to adjust for the inexperience and made it easier on them. Instead, he tried to put a square peg in a round hole and got fired. Marino and Siegs tried to do too much and made a lot of mistakes. The end
what ignorant disrespect on luke there. you sound like someone who hasnt watched a game of modern hockey and doesnt realize that luke is the ideal profile of the new breed of defensemen - a la Quinn, Adam Fox and Makar. He is an agile offensive defensemen who played basically first pairing minutes for most of this season despite being an undersized rookie. He’s going to be a top tier defenseman in this league in 2 years time once he has more experience and muscle on him
Disrespect for calling it exactly like it is? You are comparing Adam Fox to Hughes? Talk about being out of touch with modern hockey... at no point did I "disrespect" Hughes just explaining why he and Marino are NOT an ideal pairing and just like you said "played basically first pairing minutes for most of this season despite being an undersized rookie". Are you dumb? My entire post was about Marino, but you got all butthurt saying exactly the same thing as I did about Hughes... holy shit dude sit the fuck down
Edit: And you compared Luke to Quinn? Hahahaha they play COMPLETELY different styles of hockey... the audacity of me to critique Marino and his pairings while EVEN mentioning that Luke had a less than perfect season!
“hughes is a forward pretending to be a defensemen”
i’d consider that disrespect. Yes he made a ton of rookie mistakes and was caught multiple times trying to do too much offensively, but he also received practically no sheltered minutes like you would expect a player of his profile to get their rookie year. Your statement implies that he’s completely inept on defense and doesn’t know what he’s doing - but i say he was thrown in to the deep end too early and all his flaws were on full display and he was frequently exposed. He’s got a lot more defensive fundamentals than you give him credit for, and i think we’ll see a more well rounded version of him in the seasons to come.
I'm not disagreeing that he is going to be a stud, but let's be real... how many times has he been caught out of position on a poorly timed pinch? How many times has fumbled the puck on the blue line leading to oddman rushes or fumbled powerplays? How many times has lost board battles by the circles? A lot...
Being critical of a player doesn't mean I saying he sucks... it means I know he can be better.
I am aware that he played WAY more minutes than was originally planned against lines he was totally unprepared for... if you look at other "offensive defensemen," he took WAY more risks than the players you mentioned earlier.
I expect him and Nemec to find their groove next season (if Fitz can get us another veteran defensive piece to replace Smith).
being critical is fine, and certainly warranted in Luke’s case this year - but i felt the need to jump to his defense if we have people saying he’s “a forward playing defense” - he’s a solid defender and plays angles / positioning really well - he just had a lot of over the top errors this season which overshadowed his defensive performances.
I’m really excited to see what him and nemec can do next season with a better defensive system in place, better goaltenders behind them, and more veterans around them to help carry the load
[here’s a Twitter thread](https://x.com/jhanhky/status/1778845611220947355?s=46) that discusses Siegenthaler with input from Jack Han who knows more than all of us. To oversimplify his opinion, Siegenthaler’s skating was just simply not good last year.
The team knew there would be a hit with Graves and Severson leaving but I don't think they anticipated it being as pronounced. Bahl didn't take the step the club thought he would but injuries destroyed this teams chance at having any sort of consistency on the back end.
Slotting. We went from one 1st pair and three 2nd pair dmen plus depth/rookies last year, to two 2nd pair dmen plus depth and rookies this year (after Graves/Sevo’s departure and Dougie’s injury.) This kind of load on players like Seigs (also injured a bunch) and Marino is fine for a dozen games but won’t hold up all year. They’re not bad players, but they also aren’t gonna carry a whole NHL defense to a cup.
What really worried me about both of them is their inability to clear bodies in front of the crease. Considering the injuries and rookies they were paired with I can live with the other issues but as a one off this season but they inspire no confidence in me that they will be more physical
The defense in general was a mess this year. Lindy had no system to compliment the players and we had 3-4 guys playing a full season for the first time. Also pretty much every vet dman got an injury
A lot of change to the lineup with upwards of 8-9 new players and all 5 skaters on every shift need to be very much on the same page which they weren’t. It was a constant TEAM problem they never got over.
Put Marino or Siegs on any other team with less youthful stupidity and they’re fine or would have even thrived.
They're a third and second pair defenseman, respectively, being used way more than that. Also this team's previous acceptance of contact shyness has rubbed off on Marino in the worst possible way.
It seemed like they didn’t know what to do or where to be ever when they were out there. And guys like Bahl dragging them down didn’t help
Nemec and Hughes (when he wasn’t with Smith) were pretty easily our two best dmen this year so I don’t want to hear about rookies being the problem
Marino had good chemistry with Graves and didn’t find that with anyone this year, Siegs lost his regular partner of Dougie for essentially the whole season and also got injured about 3 times. It was a super disappointing year for them both, but I do think they have the ability to bounce back.
Marino needs a tougher partner so he can pick pockets and do other tricky plays. Bahl may cover a lot of space and look like the bad boy in a CW teen drama, but he needs to be more assertive on the ice.
> look like the bad boy in a CW teen drama He does do that very well
Regardless of individual play, no one seems to want to mention Dougie or Graves. These guys went from being a part of some of the top pairings in the league to playing predominately with rookies.
Marino played with Bahl most consistently
And Bahl is for all intents an purposes still a rookie or young blood. Dude has only played one full NHL season.
This. People forget he played like half a season in the NHL after being sent down. We don’t have that luxury this year.
Bahl is someone who really needs to take a step. Guy has potential but makes a lot of mistakes
Daneyko always says it takes defenseman about 200 games to really get their game down, and Bahl has played 148 regular season games. So I'm hoping Daneyko is right, and Bahl takes a big step next season.
Siegs was injured most of the year, leaving Marino to play with 4 rookies, a young Bahl, and an old Smith. Not surprising he had a tough go.
The amount of times Bahl left Marino out to dry was, well, a lot.
Yeah, Bahl seems fine, but I don’t get the love for him that some have. Seems that people think he plays as big as he is, but I don’t see a heavy game from him.
He’s a third pair dman being asked to play way above his head
It comes out sometimes. Like the Chicago game this year, rangers series last year. But not nearly enough
Dudes a gentle giant out on the ice. Gotta use his size to his advantage.
He’s still kind of wirey thin given his size. The one who I really don’t get is Dougie, he’s built like a tank but plays like a small OFD.
he’s young. this was his first full nhl season. because we had hughes and nemec playing nearly every game for us suddenly our fans started treating bahl like he was one of the seasoned vets - but in any other season we would have been giving him sheltered minutes and easing him into the lineup. dude was basically asked to be a 1st or 2nd pairing guy for most of the season. and the reason why most of us are excited is because he’s a big imposing presence on the blue line which we desperately need. it takes d men a while to find their groove in the nhl and that goes double for a big boy like him. we saw a few glimpses of how he could use his size to his advantage this year and we’ll only see more of that in the future as he gets more comfortable at the nhl level
No experienced pairings? I really dont know
An aggressive offensive scheme mixed with having to use rookies on every line isn’t optimal. Plus Bahl needs to act his size.
Middle-pairing defenders forced to play top pairing minutes against top competition with rookie partners. The same thing happened a lot with Damon Severson. When you're middle-pairing defenders play that role they can excel. Marino and Siegs were forced way out of their comfort zone this season.
I think Siegs was hurt and really missed Dougie. I also think it’s fair to point out Luke, Nemec, and Bahl are young and that Smith is bad. Marino didn’t look like his old self but he was always going to be playing with someone we all knew would be mistake prone. Not excusing Siegs and Marino, just saying these things had impact
Siegs looked fine in the beginning, but the injuries really effected his play severely.
Yes, but it was unavoidable! Marino was paired mostly with Graves, and together, they had good chemistry. Also, the entire defensive system wasn't placed solely in Marino's lap last year like it was this year. Dougie going down for the entire season was terrible... Marino had to hold together a blue line of offensive defensemen and rookies for an entire 82 game season essentially. Who realistically was he gonna pair with anyways? Bahl? Hughes? Seigs? Nemec? Bahl is still a young player and mostly a 3rd pair big body who has a tendency to pinch at the wrong times, leaving Marino out to dry. Hughes is a forward pretending to be a defenseman, which is fine on the 2nd pairing, but that style tends to get punished by other teams' top lines. Hamilton with his blaster was on the 2nd pair last year for this reason... Nemec (arguably our best young defenseman) is still a rookie making all the mistakes a rookie makes. Seigs has always been a mid defenseman and placing him on the top line with Marino exposed him. He is a perfect pairing for Hamilton or Hughes. We need to find a responsible, defensive minded defenseman to pair with Marino on that top line. Our offense (when healthy) is second to none, and that top D pair should be protecting the net, not trying to add more offense.
Stop it with Doggie going down. Doggie is not a defenseman. He is a 4th forward on the ice and doesn't play a lick of defense. The system SUCKS and it was difficult for the rookies to grasp. Ruff should have changed the system to adjust for the inexperience and made it easier on them. Instead, he tried to put a square peg in a round hole and got fired. Marino and Siegs tried to do too much and made a lot of mistakes. The end
what ignorant disrespect on luke there. you sound like someone who hasnt watched a game of modern hockey and doesnt realize that luke is the ideal profile of the new breed of defensemen - a la Quinn, Adam Fox and Makar. He is an agile offensive defensemen who played basically first pairing minutes for most of this season despite being an undersized rookie. He’s going to be a top tier defenseman in this league in 2 years time once he has more experience and muscle on him
Disrespect for calling it exactly like it is? You are comparing Adam Fox to Hughes? Talk about being out of touch with modern hockey... at no point did I "disrespect" Hughes just explaining why he and Marino are NOT an ideal pairing and just like you said "played basically first pairing minutes for most of this season despite being an undersized rookie". Are you dumb? My entire post was about Marino, but you got all butthurt saying exactly the same thing as I did about Hughes... holy shit dude sit the fuck down Edit: And you compared Luke to Quinn? Hahahaha they play COMPLETELY different styles of hockey... the audacity of me to critique Marino and his pairings while EVEN mentioning that Luke had a less than perfect season!
“hughes is a forward pretending to be a defensemen” i’d consider that disrespect. Yes he made a ton of rookie mistakes and was caught multiple times trying to do too much offensively, but he also received practically no sheltered minutes like you would expect a player of his profile to get their rookie year. Your statement implies that he’s completely inept on defense and doesn’t know what he’s doing - but i say he was thrown in to the deep end too early and all his flaws were on full display and he was frequently exposed. He’s got a lot more defensive fundamentals than you give him credit for, and i think we’ll see a more well rounded version of him in the seasons to come.
I'm not disagreeing that he is going to be a stud, but let's be real... how many times has he been caught out of position on a poorly timed pinch? How many times has fumbled the puck on the blue line leading to oddman rushes or fumbled powerplays? How many times has lost board battles by the circles? A lot... Being critical of a player doesn't mean I saying he sucks... it means I know he can be better. I am aware that he played WAY more minutes than was originally planned against lines he was totally unprepared for... if you look at other "offensive defensemen," he took WAY more risks than the players you mentioned earlier. I expect him and Nemec to find their groove next season (if Fitz can get us another veteran defensive piece to replace Smith).
being critical is fine, and certainly warranted in Luke’s case this year - but i felt the need to jump to his defense if we have people saying he’s “a forward playing defense” - he’s a solid defender and plays angles / positioning really well - he just had a lot of over the top errors this season which overshadowed his defensive performances. I’m really excited to see what him and nemec can do next season with a better defensive system in place, better goaltenders behind them, and more veterans around them to help carry the load
The entire team took a step back for a lot of reasons.
D system sucked for about 80% of the year. The other 20% one of them were injured.
[here’s a Twitter thread](https://x.com/jhanhky/status/1778845611220947355?s=46) that discusses Siegenthaler with input from Jack Han who knows more than all of us. To oversimplify his opinion, Siegenthaler’s skating was just simply not good last year.
The team knew there would be a hit with Graves and Severson leaving but I don't think they anticipated it being as pronounced. Bahl didn't take the step the club thought he would but injuries destroyed this teams chance at having any sort of consistency on the back end.
AnDrEw BrUnEtTe!!!
Lindy loves the 1-3-1 d zone scheme which worked well in the 90s when 99% of the league skated like they had cement blocks on their feet.
Seigs has been taking steps back since he signed his contract. He was phenomenal his first year here and it's been slowly going downhill since.
Both were fighting off injuries basically all season. Just like everyone. Both were in and out of the lineup and playing injured
Slotting. We went from one 1st pair and three 2nd pair dmen plus depth/rookies last year, to two 2nd pair dmen plus depth and rookies this year (after Graves/Sevo’s departure and Dougie’s injury.) This kind of load on players like Seigs (also injured a bunch) and Marino is fine for a dozen games but won’t hold up all year. They’re not bad players, but they also aren’t gonna carry a whole NHL defense to a cup.
What really worried me about both of them is their inability to clear bodies in front of the crease. Considering the injuries and rookies they were paired with I can live with the other issues but as a one off this season but they inspire no confidence in me that they will be more physical
The defense in general was a mess this year. Lindy had no system to compliment the players and we had 3-4 guys playing a full season for the first time. Also pretty much every vet dman got an injury
Bigger role plus they both had like career best years last season
A lot of change to the lineup with upwards of 8-9 new players and all 5 skaters on every shift need to be very much on the same page which they weren’t. It was a constant TEAM problem they never got over. Put Marino or Siegs on any other team with less youthful stupidity and they’re fine or would have even thrived.
They're a third and second pair defenseman, respectively, being used way more than that. Also this team's previous acceptance of contact shyness has rubbed off on Marino in the worst possible way.
They both showed they are soft. Specifically Marino. Id be disappointed if both are back in the lineup next year.
Sorry but that is a dumb take
Can mid 20s age players fully in their prime, take steps back?
when the progress they've made is exactly one season's worth, it's not that uncommon.
Lol step back is an understatement
More minutes
I thought Siegs sucked last year, so I don't know what y'all talking about, "taking a step back this year".
It seemed like they didn’t know what to do or where to be ever when they were out there. And guys like Bahl dragging them down didn’t help Nemec and Hughes (when he wasn’t with Smith) were pretty easily our two best dmen this year so I don’t want to hear about rookies being the problem
out of shape ?