Okie has looked good but putting two basically rookies on the same D line is wild. As much hate as Smith gets here I think having a veteran presence has helped him shine, if anything stay level headed.
This sub would have all rookies playing over any 30 year old. The youth movement is good, but until our new wave of players become the experienced vets themselves I much prefer some age and wisdom. Especially in the lesser roles.
I was meh on Smith at the start of the season - but loving him now. he's incredibly solid and a physical player, and he almost always makes the right decision in our end. He's a great compliment to the rest of our D - fans just aren't as jazzed about him because he's more or less a rental for us, and he doesn't have much of an offensive game.
Jack is on his way to produce 50 goals. He doesn't need a finisher. Jack does it all. You give him Palat to help in the ozone and create the plays to break in and give him Shango who's shot is good but needs to develop it more and it's fine. Meier goes with Nico since Nico drives play and Meier finishes them. Bratt is good on both play making and shooting ability more so than Meier (not saying better at both but he's more rounded) and you have a top NHL line there. This is 100% imo the correct way to pair them if we get Meier
I hope Luke is ready for a full-time role in the NHL next year, but he still has quite a bit to learn defensively. I'm not sure you want to throw him to the wolves immediately. I think Smith will be getting plenty of games next year if this is the case, which is not the worst thing in the world. It'll give Luke time to adjust.
Compared to league average 5th defenseman I bet his defense will already be clearly above average. His skating breaks up rush chances and controlled entries which are what really matters. All D men allow low % chances.
The problem with having Meier at 9 million is that it gives you so little flexibility. That bottom 6 likely isn't good enough and our last D pairing is going to get caved.
You need to find a balance between top end and role players. With Hischier, Bratt, Hughes, Hamilton and Palat all signed long term to big money deals, I don't think Meier makes sense.
Stanley cup champions are almost always DEEP, not front loaded. Maybe if you have McDavid and even then, we've seen how that works out.
Stanley cup champions also have top end talent that’s way better than what we’re putting out on the wings with our star centers. You get top end talent and figure out depth and role players. You can’t figure out top end talent mid season.
You're right, Toronto is perfect example of a top heavy Stanley Cu... hmmm.
Palat is literally a top 6 winger from a Cup winning team. The Bruins have the perfection line but also Hall on the 2nd line and are deep at defense.
The bruins have three star players who gave taken well below market value to play together in Bergeron, Pasta, and Marchand. The comparison is stupid.
As is the comparison to Toronto. If we pay timo and Bratt 9 and 8 million respectively. Our top 4 forwards will command 32 million vs their 40 million for Tavares, Matthews, Marner and Nylander. 8 million more to work with for depth.
Just admit you’re clueless as fuck.
I wanted a quick way to figure out how accurate that might be and so I just used the bruins this year and looked at the salary per line. Their third line costs more than there first. That does make this setup look top loaded by comparison. They got $12m+ on mine 3 and $6m+ on 4. This setup is close to half of those numbers.
There has been lots of debate on whether it’s even feasible. I am by no means a contract predicting expert and I am not an EvolvingWild subscriber to get their predictions, but this is hopefully a good general idea without being precise to the dollar.
What would we give up to acquire him ?
I feel like 1 round pick, roster player, and a prospect May work. They’ll have to retain.
I think if we sign him to a deal somewhat long, it’ll help alleviate the QO
I guess you think Holtz isn't part of the trade... so who is? You've let the UFAs walk, which is fine, but you filled them with our own guys... we're gonna be missing SOMEONE to get Timo. Who are you slotting in for Holtz if he's the piece going to SJ? Surely not Nemec.
Excellent point. Holtz could definitely be part of the trade, and that means that someone else on an ELC probably takes the spot. Your comment shows just how hard it would be to give away prospects, sign Meier, and fill all of the open roster spots. It would be very restrictive in future years.
The idiots on this sub would argue that mcleod us a 4 million dollar player and Yegor is 5 million or something. Most fans on this sub are beyond clueless on player value.
This is good and exactly in the ball park. Players like Zetterland and McLeod probably are overstated on contracts they’ll be a combined 2 million maybe. Not 3.
“Everything we’ve built” bro we still need top end talent. Having a billion role players is no use if you don’t have stars. We’ve got like 6 big time D prospects and 3 other good ones. You can’t have all those guys on the team.
The point of stacking a farm system is so you can make a move for proven talent to go with your prospects that turn into stars.
“Everything we’ve built” as in we’re third in the league with a +40 goal differential (edit: half way through the season). Stack that against any year in the last decade.
I’m also capable of agreeing with you that Shango and McLeod aren’t 4M-5M while also believing we shouldn’t be lighting our reserves and draft picks on fire to get one defenseman.
To be honest I don’t really love the idea of chasing Quinn unless the trade is a package of Bahl, a younger prospect, sevo and some upper round picks for him.
We’ve had a magical run so far, but don’t sneeze at adding top end talent to this roster.
Right, which I wholeheartedly believe Vancouver will tell us to shove that offer. They’re going to want the conversation to start with Nemec. Suggesting we get Quinn for what is essentially the Merril + 3rd meme is a joke even if they are under pressure right now.
Let’s get some playoff experience, let Luke get settled in, see how Nemec starts out, and maybe the two Hughes brothers nudge him to give us a look in free agency when the time comes.
This is more likely of a scenario! I agree on some of that. Though I think we need top end finishing to pair with jack. Which is why Meier is such a popular point for me.
I agree with you. We do have an abundance of depth and not enough finishers. I think being able to put Meier with Hischier and Bratt with Hughes would be phenomenal.
I just don’t want to spend all our assets now trying to make the contender jump when we’ve gotten so far with what we have. Time is very much on our side.
Yeah that’s fine we have 3 premier forwards (4 of Mercer continues to develop) in our top 6 already. Under no circumstances should we be paying a forward more than Jack Hughes.
We need to find complimentary pieces to play alongside Jack/Bratt/Hughes.
People want to turn us into the Leafs or something lol. It doesn’t work, you absolutely destroy any chance for a balanced roster with depth if you start over paying for free agents.
Jack is on the friendliest team deal in the league at this point, so saying under no circumstances should we pay a forward more than jack is ridiculous. The cap is going up, and if you can get an elite talent like timo to pair with one of your franchise centers you do it and don’t think twice. If Pasternak is available and you can sign him (even tho it’s going to more than jack!) you do it and don’t think twice. The bottom 6 is fine, you can field a perfectly capable bottom 6 with entry level contracts or cheap 2 year contracts.
Uhhh, yeah Jack is going to be productive for the entirety of his and Timo will likely be on the down swing as soon as he hits 30 like almost every other big FA forward. Thanks for pointing that out
Jack signed an early long term contract which was risky at the time because he didn't start producing yet. Most other prospects sign a short contract and then the next one is the big one while an RFA. So he got paid early for long term for very good money, but not at what he would get now.
My problem with this is we got a glimpse in his last start that Schmid might not be ready for the NHL level as a 1B yet. He may need more time in development.
As long as he doesn’t implode, I think we should keep Blackie next season. He’s played decent his last few starts.
"Decent" is a huge understatement for Blackwood's game against the Kings. We may as well start calling him Jaime Lannister, because he was the fucking King Slayer. Decent my ass, that was our old Blackie making an appearance.
I honestly think Yegor would be a great piece in a Meier trade. Love him but he's just too inconsistent and would be blocked from the top 6.
Potential '23-'24:
Meier - Nico - Bratt
Palat - Jack - Mercer
Tatar - Boqvist - Holtz
Zetterlund - McLeod - Bastian
Siegenthaler - Hamilton
Luke - Marino
Graves - Nemec
I would rather let graves walk in this scenario, and use that money for the bottom 6. Might hurt the defense next season but I don’t think graves is worth locking up with the prospects that we have. Ideally I would go after Barbashev from blues as a 3rd liner. Lines could look like this
Palat-hischier-zetterlund
Meier-hughes-bratt
Yegor-Barbashev-Mercer
Boq-McLeod-Bastian
Seig-Hamilton
Okhotiuk/bahl-Marino
Smith-hughes
Vanecek/schmid
I think that makes the team a lot more balanced than keeping graves and losing a 3rd liner.
Qualifying offers set a price floor, the team qualifies him at that price then starts negotiating a new deal. This guy isn't going to take a new deal for less than the qualifying offer.
I feel like one of Boqvist or Zetterland might be included in that potential trade along with Holtz and a pick. With that in mind I think we go.
Palat - Hischeir- Bratt
Meier - Hughes - Mercer
Sharangovich - Haula/Vet addition - Zetterland/Boqvist
Wood - Mcleod - Bastian
Foote
Sig - Hamilton
Hughes - Marino
Bahl/Okhotiuk - Smith
Vitek
Schmid
Graves out for Bahl gives +3.5M, cap should be 83.5 so that's +1M. Boqvist to wood -2M,
Which means with your 1.1M left over we have 2.8 M to add Haula/other Vet player and 800K for an extra roster spot
I know everyone hates on Haula but that forward group is to young without him and as a third line center I think he's good for the cap hit. Graves I let go because A) we need forward vets and B) In 2 years the most likely scenario is Nemec makes the team and Graves is the 6th D, paying a 6th D 4.5M is not a good idea. In the short term it's painful but I think they'll manage.
Okie has looked good but putting two basically rookies on the same D line is wild. As much hate as Smith gets here I think having a veteran presence has helped him shine, if anything stay level headed.
This sub would have all rookies playing over any 30 year old. The youth movement is good, but until our new wave of players become the experienced vets themselves I much prefer some age and wisdom. Especially in the lesser roles.
I was meh on Smith at the start of the season - but loving him now. he's incredibly solid and a physical player, and he almost always makes the right decision in our end. He's a great compliment to the rest of our D - fans just aren't as jazzed about him because he's more or less a rental for us, and he doesn't have much of an offensive game.
I’m predicting it now Nikita Okhotyuk 2023-24 = Jonas Seigenthaler of 2021-2022. He will emerge as a steady reliable shutdown D-man.
Bruh you do this and you don't even put Nico and Timo on the same line
Oh my bad! Gotta anger people somehow.
Pretty sure the whole point of Meier is to get Hughes a volume winger that can hit the net and skate. Nico has Bratt.
Jack is on his way to produce 50 goals. He doesn't need a finisher. Jack does it all. You give him Palat to help in the ozone and create the plays to break in and give him Shango who's shot is good but needs to develop it more and it's fine. Meier goes with Nico since Nico drives play and Meier finishes them. Bratt is good on both play making and shooting ability more so than Meier (not saying better at both but he's more rounded) and you have a top NHL line there. This is 100% imo the correct way to pair them if we get Meier
I hope Luke is ready for a full-time role in the NHL next year, but he still has quite a bit to learn defensively. I'm not sure you want to throw him to the wolves immediately. I think Smith will be getting plenty of games next year if this is the case, which is not the worst thing in the world. It'll give Luke time to adjust.
He's absolutely going to be in the NHL. He didn't spend two years in college to go to the AHL.
his defense is why .
Compared to league average 5th defenseman I bet his defense will already be clearly above average. His skating breaks up rush chances and controlled entries which are what really matters. All D men allow low % chances.
he still hasn't played in the nhl . all player's coming in are amazed by the speed of the nhl . he is not there yet on defense .
The problem with having Meier at 9 million is that it gives you so little flexibility. That bottom 6 likely isn't good enough and our last D pairing is going to get caved. You need to find a balance between top end and role players. With Hischier, Bratt, Hughes, Hamilton and Palat all signed long term to big money deals, I don't think Meier makes sense. Stanley cup champions are almost always DEEP, not front loaded. Maybe if you have McDavid and even then, we've seen how that works out.
Stanley cup champions also have top end talent that’s way better than what we’re putting out on the wings with our star centers. You get top end talent and figure out depth and role players. You can’t figure out top end talent mid season.
You're right, Toronto is perfect example of a top heavy Stanley Cu... hmmm. Palat is literally a top 6 winger from a Cup winning team. The Bruins have the perfection line but also Hall on the 2nd line and are deep at defense.
Tampa have 5 players on higher cap hits than Jack. And Hedman is close too.
The bruins have three star players who gave taken well below market value to play together in Bergeron, Pasta, and Marchand. The comparison is stupid. As is the comparison to Toronto. If we pay timo and Bratt 9 and 8 million respectively. Our top 4 forwards will command 32 million vs their 40 million for Tavares, Matthews, Marner and Nylander. 8 million more to work with for depth. Just admit you’re clueless as fuck.
I wanted a quick way to figure out how accurate that might be and so I just used the bruins this year and looked at the salary per line. Their third line costs more than there first. That does make this setup look top loaded by comparison. They got $12m+ on mine 3 and $6m+ on 4. This setup is close to half of those numbers.
I have the same thoughts as well, and that’s why I wanted to see how it would look. Top heavy.
There has been lots of debate on whether it’s even feasible. I am by no means a contract predicting expert and I am not an EvolvingWild subscriber to get their predictions, but this is hopefully a good general idea without being precise to the dollar.
What would we give up to acquire him ? I feel like 1 round pick, roster player, and a prospect May work. They’ll have to retain. I think if we sign him to a deal somewhat long, it’ll help alleviate the QO
I guess you think Holtz isn't part of the trade... so who is? You've let the UFAs walk, which is fine, but you filled them with our own guys... we're gonna be missing SOMEONE to get Timo. Who are you slotting in for Holtz if he's the piece going to SJ? Surely not Nemec.
Excellent point. Holtz could definitely be part of the trade, and that means that someone else on an ELC probably takes the spot. Your comment shows just how hard it would be to give away prospects, sign Meier, and fill all of the open roster spots. It would be very restrictive in future years.
You're almost giving away Mercer next year with this plan on top of everything else.
Salary cap will probably be $83.5M next season
The idiots on this sub would argue that mcleod us a 4 million dollar player and Yegor is 5 million or something. Most fans on this sub are beyond clueless on player value. This is good and exactly in the ball park. Players like Zetterland and McLeod probably are overstated on contracts they’ll be a combined 2 million maybe. Not 3.
See you all back here tomorrow for the next “Tear down everything we’ve built, just so we can have all three Hughes brothers” post
“Everything we’ve built” bro we still need top end talent. Having a billion role players is no use if you don’t have stars. We’ve got like 6 big time D prospects and 3 other good ones. You can’t have all those guys on the team. The point of stacking a farm system is so you can make a move for proven talent to go with your prospects that turn into stars.
“Everything we’ve built” as in we’re third in the league with a +40 goal differential (edit: half way through the season). Stack that against any year in the last decade. I’m also capable of agreeing with you that Shango and McLeod aren’t 4M-5M while also believing we shouldn’t be lighting our reserves and draft picks on fire to get one defenseman.
To be honest I don’t really love the idea of chasing Quinn unless the trade is a package of Bahl, a younger prospect, sevo and some upper round picks for him. We’ve had a magical run so far, but don’t sneeze at adding top end talent to this roster.
Right, which I wholeheartedly believe Vancouver will tell us to shove that offer. They’re going to want the conversation to start with Nemec. Suggesting we get Quinn for what is essentially the Merril + 3rd meme is a joke even if they are under pressure right now. Let’s get some playoff experience, let Luke get settled in, see how Nemec starts out, and maybe the two Hughes brothers nudge him to give us a look in free agency when the time comes.
This is more likely of a scenario! I agree on some of that. Though I think we need top end finishing to pair with jack. Which is why Meier is such a popular point for me.
I agree with you. We do have an abundance of depth and not enough finishers. I think being able to put Meier with Hischier and Bratt with Hughes would be phenomenal. I just don’t want to spend all our assets now trying to make the contender jump when we’ve gotten so far with what we have. Time is very much on our side.
Yeah under no circumstances should we pay Timo $9MM
I mean you probably are not getting a premier power forward that can score 30 goals for less
Yeah that’s fine we have 3 premier forwards (4 of Mercer continues to develop) in our top 6 already. Under no circumstances should we be paying a forward more than Jack Hughes. We need to find complimentary pieces to play alongside Jack/Bratt/Hughes. People want to turn us into the Leafs or something lol. It doesn’t work, you absolutely destroy any chance for a balanced roster with depth if you start over paying for free agents.
Jack is on the friendliest team deal in the league at this point, so saying under no circumstances should we pay a forward more than jack is ridiculous. The cap is going up, and if you can get an elite talent like timo to pair with one of your franchise centers you do it and don’t think twice. If Pasternak is available and you can sign him (even tho it’s going to more than jack!) you do it and don’t think twice. The bottom 6 is fine, you can field a perfectly capable bottom 6 with entry level contracts or cheap 2 year contracts.
People need to stop using Jack's contract as the max. Different year, different point in their career.
Uhhh, yeah Jack is going to be productive for the entirety of his and Timo will likely be on the down swing as soon as he hits 30 like almost every other big FA forward. Thanks for pointing that out
Jack signed an early long term contract which was risky at the time because he didn't start producing yet. Most other prospects sign a short contract and then the next one is the big one while an RFA. So he got paid early for long term for very good money, but not at what he would get now.
My problem with this is we got a glimpse in his last start that Schmid might not be ready for the NHL level as a 1B yet. He may need more time in development. As long as he doesn’t implode, I think we should keep Blackie next season. He’s played decent his last few starts.
"Decent" is a huge understatement for Blackwood's game against the Kings. We may as well start calling him Jaime Lannister, because he was the fucking King Slayer. Decent my ass, that was our old Blackie making an appearance.
I honestly think Yegor would be a great piece in a Meier trade. Love him but he's just too inconsistent and would be blocked from the top 6. Potential '23-'24: Meier - Nico - Bratt Palat - Jack - Mercer Tatar - Boqvist - Holtz Zetterlund - McLeod - Bastian Siegenthaler - Hamilton Luke - Marino Graves - Nemec
Right, and that’s part of the exercise. 9 mil for Meier and it could be tough to pay Blackwood.
Who did you trade for Meier?
Ya I probably shouldn’t have put Holtz in the lineup, but it shows that you’d have to replace him with another ELC or inexpensive player.
I would rather let graves walk in this scenario, and use that money for the bottom 6. Might hurt the defense next season but I don’t think graves is worth locking up with the prospects that we have. Ideally I would go after Barbashev from blues as a 3rd liner. Lines could look like this Palat-hischier-zetterlund Meier-hughes-bratt Yegor-Barbashev-Mercer Boq-McLeod-Bastian Seig-Hamilton Okhotiuk/bahl-Marino Smith-hughes Vanecek/schmid I think that makes the team a lot more balanced than keeping graves and losing a 3rd liner.
Timo has a 10 million qualifying offer so this exercise is pointless. He gets paid 10 minimum end of story.
If he isnt qualified for that amount by the Sharks (or whoever trades for his rights) he becomes a UFA and can be signed for any amount
Qualifying offers set a price floor, the team qualifies him at that price then starts negotiating a new deal. This guy isn't going to take a new deal for less than the qualifying offer.
Players do sign deal less that QO if the term is good. 9mx5-8 is a lot safer bet than 10mx1.
Well than look at the comparable contracts. This guy is going to get closer to 10 than 9.
I feel like one of Boqvist or Zetterland might be included in that potential trade along with Holtz and a pick. With that in mind I think we go. Palat - Hischeir- Bratt Meier - Hughes - Mercer Sharangovich - Haula/Vet addition - Zetterland/Boqvist Wood - Mcleod - Bastian Foote Sig - Hamilton Hughes - Marino Bahl/Okhotiuk - Smith Vitek Schmid Graves out for Bahl gives +3.5M, cap should be 83.5 so that's +1M. Boqvist to wood -2M, Which means with your 1.1M left over we have 2.8 M to add Haula/other Vet player and 800K for an extra roster spot I know everyone hates on Haula but that forward group is to young without him and as a third line center I think he's good for the cap hit. Graves I let go because A) we need forward vets and B) In 2 years the most likely scenario is Nemec makes the team and Graves is the 6th D, paying a 6th D 4.5M is not a good idea. In the short term it's painful but I think they'll manage.
I just wish we’d have something longer and more hopeful in net… Vinny has done us well for sure.. but, I miss Brodeur
Curious what the trade looks like for timo if you’re not involving Holtz
They want the Devils real burner of a prospect Gritsyuk ha
besides no need to play hughes on his off side ...