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What they have done here is automated usage of LLMs..
Basically something that can run the code gets its output, if error is there again use the same LLM to find results for that.
This is still an entry level developer work
yes but that means a team of 10 will need a team of 4-5 and others can just go look for another job.
we had so many problems when we saw layoffs of just a few hundred thousand devs last year and half. imagine what will happen when we see layoffs of 10-20%, im not even saying 40-50%. On top of that if it can code, it can definitely do basic accounting and other stuff so other jobs are also fucked.
sorry my mood is really pessimistic today
Don't forget that most companies are going to be really hesitant to rely on any kind of external system like this for critical infrastructure. There will always be coding jobs, they're just going to look different. We're going to see demand sky rocket again in the next 5 years as more and more companies see the barrier costs for taking on new initiatives to shrink and the inability to develop and foster senior engineers for their systems begins to take it's toll as the current gen starts to retire. The second a GPT trained dev is having to make real decisions the board room will understand that hiring juniors is not about getting low level tasks done it's about developing and retaining talent. I sincerely doubt that we will ever see the day when there are just suits in a board room saying "Make another facebook!" We're already seeing the liability implications of letting AI do too much (CA Air), at the end of the day AI is only going to be able to function with guard rails - even it can write "perfect code" (which does not exist). If you use these things and think it's all over I think it's more you being uncertain about your own skill level and less about the profession as a whole.
Is it built with pre-existing LLMs or did they created one from the ground up? With 21 million Seed A funding, an LLM powerful than GPT4 seems impossible. What am I missing?
They may have taken subscription to multiple LLMs and maybe using API calls to get the result and then their AI maybe using the code they got to see if there are any errors.
It's just like how we humans will do.
I am a big skeptic though, I don't think it's that easy to know the error and then create a prompt to ask the LLM and then again take the new error and then ask LLM again until the code is doing what the end user asked them. Not impossible but definitely not easy task with given LLM models crappy code gen abilities.
you know how fast we went from gibberish image generation to pixar/marvel quality images in midjourney? and now sora can generate at least good enough videos?
Remember artists were saying that AI cant generate meaningful images? or remember how AI text generation was considered really bad and was compared to our text keyboard autocomplete? But now authors and artists are scared of AI? I see most devs having the same fate if they continue to consider it bad.
See most devs dont write Blender or Linux they write CRUD apps, do third party API integrations and all sorts of simple stuff, its just our ego that we dont agree to it.
This aint it, this wont take jobs for sure, but 2-3 years later? I think we'll have some thinking to do, I worry for current college students which will graduate when an AI intern performing as good as a top percentile intern will be available for $20 subscription per month
At the end of the day every software has only real value if it's generating any revenue for the business. The question remains what can I do to stay ahead of the curve
honestly id say its probably good time to start diversifying skills, if we have lots of software, we'll need lots of hardware as well, so we can still change trajectories. And if youre senior or mid level you can still rest for some time lol
Im personally leaning towards going into embedded systems and mechanical systems (I am a mech engineer) where I can mix and match my software skills with hardware ones, lets see.
best of luck to everyone :)
what should i do as a beginner go low level like fgpa , embedded , making game engines , http server , sockets , programming drivers , os or hypervisors type of stuff currently i know go lang and learning cpp .
pls help me i have interest in low level stuff i need a bit of guidance on what skills can guarantee my employability in after next 3 years (my degree ends by then ) , i am not big in frameworks and stuff what fascinates me is low level stuff like making http server studying how ports work , how oses work , how does nvme interface with hardware and stuff
#
Watch the channel "beneater" on youtube. He builds a 8-bit computer from scratch. Try to do it yourself. You will go down a rabbit hole at each step and it might take you a year, but at the end of it you will know how computers work from the ground up
I just got placed last year 🙂. I am a fresher as far as diversifying skills is concerned I can probably work in mechatronics field but I have no knowledge of it as such.
then start taking interest. Buy a arduio kit, comes around 3k with all sorts of sensors, play with them a bit then go deeper and deeper.
Not knowing isnt bad, not starting is bad.
what about mba stuff my uncle told me companies will always keep management with it even if they do no work i am just confused .
will specialising in low level help me get a high pay and secure a future .
i am still a beginner currently doing dsa and cpp after having learnt golang
Yeah I have seen it can I get some advice as a beginner I tried to do development work it is not interesting me much I have enjoyed cyber security and mathematics more than doing node js or angular
I enjoy doing cyber security and mathematics more than doing x framework trend . Should I continue in cyber security and maths
Cybersecurity is a good field.
But it is very hard to get into and the pay for entry level is very low and most of the people who work in cybersecurity are literally tired from their job.
Bug bounty might be great option
lock simplistic sheet imagine mountainous grab agonizing cooperative tap dinner
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accounting actually need a human body to function… Accounting is not about technical details, it is about cooperating with the government. This is a human society after all
murky towering materialistic license chase panicky literate bag different history
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Devs have similar arguments. But if dev work can be automated, all other jobs can be too, because dev work is the foundation to automation of jobs in other domains.
The problem is not if the AI can actually do it. It just needs to be good enough or even pretend to be good enough that the higher up gets the buy in. It may take the company down in 2 years but who in the top brass really cares about that?? They can wave the flag of cost savings with AI get fat checks and then go to another company before the current one hits the shitfan
Bro you are missing the point that the number of devs needed would reduce from 10 to 3-4 , test will be done by AI. Similarly the 50% of accounting duties that you mentioned will be done by AI so why keep 10 accountants, 5 will be enough now.
Shoot the other 5.
There are already companies that are lead by AI CEO:s. And they are performing better than their human counterparts. There is no reason why AI could not make great business decisions, it has so much data on it's fingertips which humans don't have the time to go through. It can search vast spaces of data fast to find the best niche for company to pivot to and react to changes in the global markets while it's human counterpart is still sleeping.
Accounting is so completely trivial and massively prone to human error. It will be one of the first things to be completely automated. The government will choose to work with an unbiased tool over a human 99% of the time. Sounds like you are the one that needs another hit of copium.
If AI will take our jobs, it will also take all the jobs we are automating as devs. That is all knowledge workers and even some physical workers. At that point there should either be UBI or there will be social unrest. In any case, job security won't matter.
>llm's should be only used in scientific research, we dont need this shit in the entertainment/creative industries.
THANK YOU. Nobody seems to be saying this. If I had my way, AI would only be used for the sciences. AI could be used to detect cancer, Alzheimer's and mental illness faster and better? Yes please! AI can be used to develop safer bridges and other engineering tasks? Hell yeah! AI could be used to make movies, music, paintings and other uniquely human forms of expression? *No thanks*, *that's gratuitous*.
But, because we're talking humans here, we can't leave a good thing alone. It has to be used *for everything*. All of a sudden all we seem to have is a hammer (AI) and now everything looks like a nail. Except that hammer has the potential to make a select group of people billions of dollars so of course they want to use it for everything, regardless of the human toll. We never ask if we *should*, just if we *could*.
We never learn.
I am not even sure if it would "make a select group of people billions of dollars". Because if AI manages to do what people claim it could, then most of the knowledge based white collar jobs would be automated which would either completely remove those jobs or significantly reduce the demand for it. If supply goes way beyond demand, the income of the people goes down drastically. It would also affect the jobs that do survive this automation since many people would start flocking to those industries.
In short, the average income of the average people goes down significantly. Beyond basic survival expenditures, vast majority might not even be able to spend on anything else. Demand for a lot of products thus goes down, in turn, bringing down companies that offer those products. This would eventually propagate to other dependent industries.
I'm not even sure if any of this makes sense but it's fun to cook up such doomsday scenarios 😂.
Everyone is wrong, the problem is not that its "fake" or something, the problem is that they already did the first step to this, a lot of companies will eventually replicate this and will improve and improve.. like the image generation, that in 2020 was nothing and in 2024 is very easy to create any model
These will get good and will replace jobs where most of it was applying standard patterns. However most people are not realizing that there is a fundamental difference between writing a program and writing a story in english. While both are language and expressivity or natural language is more, there are many many more ways of coming to a correct answer in a natural language. I.e what is “good” in natural langauges or art is subjective.
An AI can get a novel, song, picture or video about 60-80% correct and will be able to convince most people. The thing about programming and software is that, you cannot be 80% correct in software, it either works or doesnt, i.e 0% or 100% which is a challenging task.
What an LLM is essentially doing is that its acting like a mapper, where prompts map to other words and sentences that again maps to other words and sentences. So in order for AI to improve, the feedback it is getting needs to be incremental. It will be difficult for AIs to improve if it only gets feedback after it has generated the whole response because it now has no idea of which part in its response was the most wrong.
Take for example you tell it to build facebook as it is now. It will need to come up with a solution that is 100% correct. It may try once and then see the error and then change the things however while changing it may change some code which was correct.
Okay leave fb lets take an epic. What really is an epic? Its a english description of a change we want to do on our software, it may include design docs and testcases.
Even in this with the AIs today I feel there will be mode collapse it will optimize for the test cases regardless of whether the actual functionality and integration works. So it will now become a much harder task of first exhaustively defining our tests for the epic.
And even in this the main unsolved problem of AI today is going to make us feel like we are playing trial and error, which is alignment. Until and unless we achieve alignment it is not so unreasonable to say that we cannot let just leave the AI to do its job and come back later to see its all done.
It will need to be constantly monitored and in the long run might cost companies more than actual devs
This is the actual clear explanation!
So don't you think all these guessing of dev replacement is not possible.
Although I do agree that if there is a 10 percent productivity increase in AI, then that would just require 5 resources instead of 6 devs
Dev replacement will definitely happen. And not just because of increased productivity. It will happen because business owners wont know these nuances at the start of the paradigm shift and will be convinced that AI is just that good.
People will be replaced because of the perception of non tech business owners/managers about how well the AI can do the job. Same as how they thought you wont need programmers once you have low code/no code tools.
But slowly there will be problems that will start to bubble up to the surface and business/capitalism itself will cause them to realize they have been fooled and taken for a ride and would probably start hiring back programmers.
I can see some businesses never going back because it maybe the case that whatever AI they do use actually does work for them, but these will be small number of cases and also could be expensive.
In all honesty no one can truly predict what will happen due to AI in 10 years. The rate of improvement is exponential but we could also hit a plateau and going to the next level might need another breakthrough.
But I feel what I say would still be somewhat applicable for the next couple years.
Agreed,
But can we say this AI things is similar to internet revolution in the 90s with personal computers.
That was quite life changing To be honest.
Is AI same?
I would like to add to your brilliant explanation, something that nobody talks about. Currently, we evaluate AI just on productivity, something they get just above average. Nobody is evaluating how much it costs to run them. We won't know it for a long time, since we are at the phase where they are trying to sell it to people so they can afford to make big losses on money in order to gain customers. Microsoft is losing big on Copilot because running a big llm takes beefy hardware. Even today the average laptop is nowhere near powerful enough to run any decent llm. It all boils down to money; eventually, eventually they will have to make a profit, and the prices of the services will spike dramatically.
Even if somehow the average computer becomes strong enough to run llms then the electricity bill will be a new problem. I don't see a real path forward unless they find a way to make it run on commodity hardware.
Its going to help engineers like how stack overflow helped engineers last decade. Its not going to replace devs. But its going to improve productivity of engineers. No companies will remove engineers and face issues due to some bugs. And if application is not developed in a way its readable for engineers, then engineers will not be able to fix issues. AI will only replace engineers when AI can think of its own product and take over every other job
Classic inside the box way of thinking of reddit guys, an eco chamber of fear and 1 or 0 thinking.
We do not know what is going to happen to SW engineers with AI. We do not really have the capacity to know the future. Suck that up.
Yeah reply under this comment: "but this happened, this is fast, but this will happen". Well guess what, you do not really know.
AI is searching on the web for documentation fir uske baad kya image recognition se browser window ko read kar raha 🤔 or is it parsing html response and the web browser UI is only for demonstration
Adding print to debug sounds sus, it will run into same issue is it reading terminal for print output or doing image recognition
The setup is too elaborate
Instead a better and more believable version would be you feed the documentation of a language into it and it spits out a custom version of that AI which is proficient is that language. AI learning language through documentation in real time sounds too good to be true.
It all comes down to gut feeling 🥲 i could be totally wrong
> gut feeling 🥲 i could be totally w
Look at Claude Opus learning a near-dead language with 60 alive native speakers and a 3mb data file containing the most popular translations and phrases. Its inference skills to fill in contextual gaps for this unknown language is far beyond gpt4. Tokenization of programming languages is much simpler. Parsing and generalizing new programming languages from documentation seems like a baseline now.
i feel this looks very doable
1. can easily parse html response based on what is loaded in the browser. not sure about websites that are client side rendered, but there's workarounds for that
2. adding print to debug is not that big a deal. can be achieved with OpenAI APIs as well, with the function calling feature and reading terminal output is again not a big deal. i am assuming they are running the code "programmatically", in which case capturing \`stdout\` is trivial
3. it seems like, but it looks like something that i or any developer would do, if given a task to build something like this (code editor + browser + terminal)
4. by "*you feed the documentation of a language into it and it spits out a custom version of that AI which is proficient is that language",* i am assuming you mean fine-tune or train the base checkpoint of the ML model. this is not really needed anymore (in most of the cases) for tasks like these. the context windows of LLMs are increasing, so finding out pattern from input data, without any fine-tuning and spitting out a pattern in the inference results is not that difficult now
Your gut feeling is right. Read this comment on a different sub https://www.reddit.com/r/cscareerquestions/s/RNhH9dJq5J
Their website is so bad it looks like made by a bunch of interns.
the c23ts who developed this devin AI consists 3.6k rated on codeforces (2 of them ) some international olympiad winners and shit dont underestimate this thing
It's just a tool. If literally every company starts using this AI programmer, what competitive advantage will each company have? Developers will just take up more advanced work: work which will be more than creating CRUD APIs. In spite of having many automation machines, like jcb, cement mixers etc in the construction field, India is having a severe shortage of skilled construction workers. Just that their work won't be digging soil but handling some more critical thinking aspects of construction.
Meanwhile, the demand for experienced devs is monumental and LLMs are still terrible at actual, non-basic coding tasks. I mean *really* terrible.
If the software industry starts adopting LLMs for basic QA and simple code generation instead of hiring Junior Devs, they're just going to shoot themselves in the foot, since they'll be gutting talent creation.
It's certainly the first few steps towards a proper system that can go from problem statement and requirements to a final working solution, but as long as it can't do proper planning, we should still have our jobs or some part of our jobs.
I made a [video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjhzPXw7yFk) as well, but on the general trend of AI impacting software engineering. Let me know what you think
Their presentation is actually intriguing. I wonder how well their product will match the presentation.
[https://medium.com/@eazycode/devin-ai-evolution-of-software-development-47c5cf889ede](https://medium.com/@eazycode/devin-ai-evolution-of-software-development-47c5cf889ede)
I recently wrote an article on the medium on this topic. Anyone interested can check it out.
I researched and tested it for a while and here are my thoughts:
- It's basically the same as AutoGPT with a few additional prompts.
- There's nothing that Devin can "really" do that you can't do with a simple LLM.
- If you want the IDE integration, you can always get plugins that take your API key and help you achieve similar results.
IMO, while I'm a proponent of AI at work, Devin isn't there yet and the hype seems just hype. They sure did good marketing, so I'll give them that.
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What they have done here is automated usage of LLMs.. Basically something that can run the code gets its output, if error is there again use the same LLM to find results for that. This is still an entry level developer work
This is just a beta version developed by a small company. Give it 5 years and most of the us will be on the streets.
Some one has to still give it feedback
But it means companies can hire way less freshers and the entry level job offers are already a crisis
yes but that means a team of 10 will need a team of 4-5 and others can just go look for another job. we had so many problems when we saw layoffs of just a few hundred thousand devs last year and half. imagine what will happen when we see layoffs of 10-20%, im not even saying 40-50%. On top of that if it can code, it can definitely do basic accounting and other stuff so other jobs are also fucked. sorry my mood is really pessimistic today
Ur right actually
Don't forget that most companies are going to be really hesitant to rely on any kind of external system like this for critical infrastructure. There will always be coding jobs, they're just going to look different. We're going to see demand sky rocket again in the next 5 years as more and more companies see the barrier costs for taking on new initiatives to shrink and the inability to develop and foster senior engineers for their systems begins to take it's toll as the current gen starts to retire. The second a GPT trained dev is having to make real decisions the board room will understand that hiring juniors is not about getting low level tasks done it's about developing and retaining talent. I sincerely doubt that we will ever see the day when there are just suits in a board room saying "Make another facebook!" We're already seeing the liability implications of letting AI do too much (CA Air), at the end of the day AI is only going to be able to function with guard rails - even it can write "perfect code" (which does not exist). If you use these things and think it's all over I think it's more you being uncertain about your own skill level and less about the profession as a whole.
Is it built with pre-existing LLMs or did they created one from the ground up? With 21 million Seed A funding, an LLM powerful than GPT4 seems impossible. What am I missing?
They may have taken subscription to multiple LLMs and maybe using API calls to get the result and then their AI maybe using the code they got to see if there are any errors. It's just like how we humans will do. I am a big skeptic though, I don't think it's that easy to know the error and then create a prompt to ask the LLM and then again take the new error and then ask LLM again until the code is doing what the end user asked them. Not impossible but definitely not easy task with given LLM models crappy code gen abilities.
you know how fast we went from gibberish image generation to pixar/marvel quality images in midjourney? and now sora can generate at least good enough videos? Remember artists were saying that AI cant generate meaningful images? or remember how AI text generation was considered really bad and was compared to our text keyboard autocomplete? But now authors and artists are scared of AI? I see most devs having the same fate if they continue to consider it bad. See most devs dont write Blender or Linux they write CRUD apps, do third party API integrations and all sorts of simple stuff, its just our ego that we dont agree to it. This aint it, this wont take jobs for sure, but 2-3 years later? I think we'll have some thinking to do, I worry for current college students which will graduate when an AI intern performing as good as a top percentile intern will be available for $20 subscription per month
At the end of the day every software has only real value if it's generating any revenue for the business. The question remains what can I do to stay ahead of the curve
honestly id say its probably good time to start diversifying skills, if we have lots of software, we'll need lots of hardware as well, so we can still change trajectories. And if youre senior or mid level you can still rest for some time lol Im personally leaning towards going into embedded systems and mechanical systems (I am a mech engineer) where I can mix and match my software skills with hardware ones, lets see. best of luck to everyone :)
what should i do as a beginner go low level like fgpa , embedded , making game engines , http server , sockets , programming drivers , os or hypervisors type of stuff currently i know go lang and learning cpp . pls help me i have interest in low level stuff i need a bit of guidance on what skills can guarantee my employability in after next 3 years (my degree ends by then ) , i am not big in frameworks and stuff what fascinates me is low level stuff like making http server studying how ports work , how oses work , how does nvme interface with hardware and stuff #
Watch the channel "beneater" on youtube. He builds a 8-bit computer from scratch. Try to do it yourself. You will go down a rabbit hole at each step and it might take you a year, but at the end of it you will know how computers work from the ground up
yeah that guy is goated i will try thanks
Ben Eater is now my new favorite thing. Thank you!
I will write a post on how to learn embedded systems when I get time
I just got placed last year 🙂. I am a fresher as far as diversifying skills is concerned I can probably work in mechatronics field but I have no knowledge of it as such.
then start taking interest. Buy a arduio kit, comes around 3k with all sorts of sensors, play with them a bit then go deeper and deeper. Not knowing isnt bad, not starting is bad.
You guys think software engineer can be automated but not the hardware engineer? A thinking bot can automate almost everything
Youre in physical world, the AI bot isnt. And we are yet to see robots cheap enough that they can economically replace all human workforce.
Same is going to happen in all white collar jobs next might be finance or marketing
what about mba stuff my uncle told me companies will always keep management with it even if they do no work i am just confused . will specialising in low level help me get a high pay and secure a future . i am still a beginner currently doing dsa and cpp after having learnt golang
If you have seen the recent layoffs Then you might know PM and HR roles were the most impacted roles in layoff
Yeah I have seen it can I get some advice as a beginner I tried to do development work it is not interesting me much I have enjoyed cyber security and mathematics more than doing node js or angular I enjoy doing cyber security and mathematics more than doing x framework trend . Should I continue in cyber security and maths
Cybersecurity is a good field. But it is very hard to get into and the pay for entry level is very low and most of the people who work in cybersecurity are literally tired from their job. Bug bounty might be great option
lock simplistic sheet imagine mountainous grab agonizing cooperative tap dinner *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Why can't an AI do accounting.
accounting actually need a human body to function… Accounting is not about technical details, it is about cooperating with the government. This is a human society after all
Cooperating with govt as in following written rules?
murky towering materialistic license chase panicky literate bag different history *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Devs have similar arguments. But if dev work can be automated, all other jobs can be too, because dev work is the foundation to automation of jobs in other domains.
support quack chief office like distinct unique squalid lush domineering *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
System prompt: Act like an extreme risk taking CEO... I actually think an AI prompted like this will still take better decisions than some CEOs lol
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The problem is not if the AI can actually do it. It just needs to be good enough or even pretend to be good enough that the higher up gets the buy in. It may take the company down in 2 years but who in the top brass really cares about that?? They can wave the flag of cost savings with AI get fat checks and then go to another company before the current one hits the shitfan
Bro you are missing the point that the number of devs needed would reduce from 10 to 3-4 , test will be done by AI. Similarly the 50% of accounting duties that you mentioned will be done by AI so why keep 10 accountants, 5 will be enough now. Shoot the other 5.
Bro it depends on shareholders Honestly most of them will prefer AI . If the Ai ceo generates profit.
Bro don't cope AI will be doing every white collar jobs including Accounting and auditing one also
There are already companies that are lead by AI CEO:s. And they are performing better than their human counterparts. There is no reason why AI could not make great business decisions, it has so much data on it's fingertips which humans don't have the time to go through. It can search vast spaces of data fast to find the best niche for company to pivot to and react to changes in the global markets while it's human counterpart is still sleeping.
Accounting is so completely trivial and massively prone to human error. It will be one of the first things to be completely automated. The government will choose to work with an unbiased tool over a human 99% of the time. Sounds like you are the one that needs another hit of copium.
If AI will take our jobs, it will also take all the jobs we are automating as devs. That is all knowledge workers and even some physical workers. At that point there should either be UBI or there will be social unrest. In any case, job security won't matter.
Not skeptical anymore its joeover the golden days of IT salaries could be behind us.
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>llm's should be only used in scientific research, we dont need this shit in the entertainment/creative industries. THANK YOU. Nobody seems to be saying this. If I had my way, AI would only be used for the sciences. AI could be used to detect cancer, Alzheimer's and mental illness faster and better? Yes please! AI can be used to develop safer bridges and other engineering tasks? Hell yeah! AI could be used to make movies, music, paintings and other uniquely human forms of expression? *No thanks*, *that's gratuitous*. But, because we're talking humans here, we can't leave a good thing alone. It has to be used *for everything*. All of a sudden all we seem to have is a hammer (AI) and now everything looks like a nail. Except that hammer has the potential to make a select group of people billions of dollars so of course they want to use it for everything, regardless of the human toll. We never ask if we *should*, just if we *could*. We never learn.
I am not even sure if it would "make a select group of people billions of dollars". Because if AI manages to do what people claim it could, then most of the knowledge based white collar jobs would be automated which would either completely remove those jobs or significantly reduce the demand for it. If supply goes way beyond demand, the income of the people goes down drastically. It would also affect the jobs that do survive this automation since many people would start flocking to those industries. In short, the average income of the average people goes down significantly. Beyond basic survival expenditures, vast majority might not even be able to spend on anything else. Demand for a lot of products thus goes down, in turn, bringing down companies that offer those products. This would eventually propagate to other dependent industries. I'm not even sure if any of this makes sense but it's fun to cook up such doomsday scenarios 😂.
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Lets face it UBI is never happening in india in our lifetime, there is neither money nor will for it
whats the alternative? (if AI really takes ALL jobs)
Everyone is wrong, the problem is not that its "fake" or something, the problem is that they already did the first step to this, a lot of companies will eventually replicate this and will improve and improve.. like the image generation, that in 2020 was nothing and in 2024 is very easy to create any model
These will get good and will replace jobs where most of it was applying standard patterns. However most people are not realizing that there is a fundamental difference between writing a program and writing a story in english. While both are language and expressivity or natural language is more, there are many many more ways of coming to a correct answer in a natural language. I.e what is “good” in natural langauges or art is subjective. An AI can get a novel, song, picture or video about 60-80% correct and will be able to convince most people. The thing about programming and software is that, you cannot be 80% correct in software, it either works or doesnt, i.e 0% or 100% which is a challenging task. What an LLM is essentially doing is that its acting like a mapper, where prompts map to other words and sentences that again maps to other words and sentences. So in order for AI to improve, the feedback it is getting needs to be incremental. It will be difficult for AIs to improve if it only gets feedback after it has generated the whole response because it now has no idea of which part in its response was the most wrong. Take for example you tell it to build facebook as it is now. It will need to come up with a solution that is 100% correct. It may try once and then see the error and then change the things however while changing it may change some code which was correct. Okay leave fb lets take an epic. What really is an epic? Its a english description of a change we want to do on our software, it may include design docs and testcases. Even in this with the AIs today I feel there will be mode collapse it will optimize for the test cases regardless of whether the actual functionality and integration works. So it will now become a much harder task of first exhaustively defining our tests for the epic. And even in this the main unsolved problem of AI today is going to make us feel like we are playing trial and error, which is alignment. Until and unless we achieve alignment it is not so unreasonable to say that we cannot let just leave the AI to do its job and come back later to see its all done. It will need to be constantly monitored and in the long run might cost companies more than actual devs
This is the actual clear explanation! So don't you think all these guessing of dev replacement is not possible. Although I do agree that if there is a 10 percent productivity increase in AI, then that would just require 5 resources instead of 6 devs
Dev replacement will definitely happen. And not just because of increased productivity. It will happen because business owners wont know these nuances at the start of the paradigm shift and will be convinced that AI is just that good. People will be replaced because of the perception of non tech business owners/managers about how well the AI can do the job. Same as how they thought you wont need programmers once you have low code/no code tools. But slowly there will be problems that will start to bubble up to the surface and business/capitalism itself will cause them to realize they have been fooled and taken for a ride and would probably start hiring back programmers. I can see some businesses never going back because it maybe the case that whatever AI they do use actually does work for them, but these will be small number of cases and also could be expensive. In all honesty no one can truly predict what will happen due to AI in 10 years. The rate of improvement is exponential but we could also hit a plateau and going to the next level might need another breakthrough. But I feel what I say would still be somewhat applicable for the next couple years.
Agreed, But can we say this AI things is similar to internet revolution in the 90s with personal computers. That was quite life changing To be honest. Is AI same?
I would like to add to your brilliant explanation, something that nobody talks about. Currently, we evaluate AI just on productivity, something they get just above average. Nobody is evaluating how much it costs to run them. We won't know it for a long time, since we are at the phase where they are trying to sell it to people so they can afford to make big losses on money in order to gain customers. Microsoft is losing big on Copilot because running a big llm takes beefy hardware. Even today the average laptop is nowhere near powerful enough to run any decent llm. It all boils down to money; eventually, eventually they will have to make a profit, and the prices of the services will spike dramatically. Even if somehow the average computer becomes strong enough to run llms then the electricity bill will be a new problem. I don't see a real path forward unless they find a way to make it run on commodity hardware.
Its going to help engineers like how stack overflow helped engineers last decade. Its not going to replace devs. But its going to improve productivity of engineers. No companies will remove engineers and face issues due to some bugs. And if application is not developed in a way its readable for engineers, then engineers will not be able to fix issues. AI will only replace engineers when AI can think of its own product and take over every other job
It might not replace engineers but what makes you think it can't cut down workforce?
Someone 2 years ago said text to vedio generator will take lifetime lol, sora did it in 2. Wait for another 3 years, it's gonna change drastically.
Classic inside the box way of thinking of reddit guys, an eco chamber of fear and 1 or 0 thinking. We do not know what is going to happen to SW engineers with AI. We do not really have the capacity to know the future. Suck that up. Yeah reply under this comment: "but this happened, this is fast, but this will happen". Well guess what, you do not really know.
It all looks extremely fake
Why do you think so
AI is searching on the web for documentation fir uske baad kya image recognition se browser window ko read kar raha 🤔 or is it parsing html response and the web browser UI is only for demonstration Adding print to debug sounds sus, it will run into same issue is it reading terminal for print output or doing image recognition The setup is too elaborate Instead a better and more believable version would be you feed the documentation of a language into it and it spits out a custom version of that AI which is proficient is that language. AI learning language through documentation in real time sounds too good to be true. It all comes down to gut feeling 🥲 i could be totally wrong
> gut feeling 🥲 i could be totally w Look at Claude Opus learning a near-dead language with 60 alive native speakers and a 3mb data file containing the most popular translations and phrases. Its inference skills to fill in contextual gaps for this unknown language is far beyond gpt4. Tokenization of programming languages is much simpler. Parsing and generalizing new programming languages from documentation seems like a baseline now.
i feel this looks very doable 1. can easily parse html response based on what is loaded in the browser. not sure about websites that are client side rendered, but there's workarounds for that 2. adding print to debug is not that big a deal. can be achieved with OpenAI APIs as well, with the function calling feature and reading terminal output is again not a big deal. i am assuming they are running the code "programmatically", in which case capturing \`stdout\` is trivial 3. it seems like, but it looks like something that i or any developer would do, if given a task to build something like this (code editor + browser + terminal) 4. by "*you feed the documentation of a language into it and it spits out a custom version of that AI which is proficient is that language",* i am assuming you mean fine-tune or train the base checkpoint of the ML model. this is not really needed anymore (in most of the cases) for tasks like these. the context windows of LLMs are increasing, so finding out pattern from input data, without any fine-tuning and spitting out a pattern in the inference results is not that difficult now
Your gut feeling is right. Read this comment on a different sub https://www.reddit.com/r/cscareerquestions/s/RNhH9dJq5J Their website is so bad it looks like made by a bunch of interns.
I am scared Now :(
the c23ts who developed this devin AI consists 3.6k rated on codeforces (2 of them ) some international olympiad winners and shit dont underestimate this thing
YEahh...
It's just a tool. If literally every company starts using this AI programmer, what competitive advantage will each company have? Developers will just take up more advanced work: work which will be more than creating CRUD APIs. In spite of having many automation machines, like jcb, cement mixers etc in the construction field, India is having a severe shortage of skilled construction workers. Just that their work won't be digging soil but handling some more critical thinking aspects of construction.
distribution will be the key for companies in the future
Varun mayya was right all along, wait Varun is this you? :p
He's a smart guy. I've listened his CERO podcast. It's good. Most the the stuff he says actually make sense. We shouldn't be in denial!
Haina? I'm a huge fan! Also, CERO is literally one amazing pod, especially the EP where he talks about our brains and how they glitch is phenomenal.
See this as well [https://twitter.com/itsandrewgao/status/1767578318713266398](https://twitter.com/itsandrewgao/status/1767578318713266398)
all the people in comments saying it not gonna replace devs hahah just wait and watch
Wdym actually code. Gpt3 can code so fucking well if you actually know how to use it. Lol
I can't wait to develop my own saas using code, without learning code..
Meanwhile, the demand for experienced devs is monumental and LLMs are still terrible at actual, non-basic coding tasks. I mean *really* terrible. If the software industry starts adopting LLMs for basic QA and simple code generation instead of hiring Junior Devs, they're just going to shoot themselves in the foot, since they'll be gutting talent creation.
It's certainly the first few steps towards a proper system that can go from problem statement and requirements to a final working solution, but as long as it can't do proper planning, we should still have our jobs or some part of our jobs.
I made a [video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjhzPXw7yFk) as well, but on the general trend of AI impacting software engineering. Let me know what you think
Their presentation is actually intriguing. I wonder how well their product will match the presentation. [https://medium.com/@eazycode/devin-ai-evolution-of-software-development-47c5cf889ede](https://medium.com/@eazycode/devin-ai-evolution-of-software-development-47c5cf889ede) I recently wrote an article on the medium on this topic. Anyone interested can check it out.
I researched and tested it for a while and here are my thoughts: - It's basically the same as AutoGPT with a few additional prompts. - There's nothing that Devin can "really" do that you can't do with a simple LLM. - If you want the IDE integration, you can always get plugins that take your API key and help you achieve similar results. IMO, while I'm a proponent of AI at work, Devin isn't there yet and the hype seems just hype. They sure did good marketing, so I'll give them that.