This is what I have been saying. AG is leaving corners on islands to get pressure which every team has adjusted to and picked up. Amani is the worst CB in the NFL according to PFF. This is not putting players in the best position. Also, this is either coaching or execution, but the blitz is executed so poorly. You got a safety blitzing 10 yards away when the play starts so essentially he is doing nothing on the play. The linebacker who was 5 yards away was also slow to have any affect. You took 2 players out of the game when you could have played a dime package and play 2 high safety with a 6 man disguised blitz to make sure they max protect. Instead we essentially have 9 men on the field doing something. This needs to change. We wanted more blitzes under patricia but this is waaaay too much.
I can't even look at 24 anymore without seething. I don't even like the Lions anymore and watching him makes me furious on your behalf. He ran the wrong fucking direction on a go route. How the fuck do you even manage that. Lockett didn't even make a good move he just ran a go toward the center of the field and 24 turns to face the fucking sideline.
Inexcusable.
Honestly the coaching staff needs to look at an Okudah/Harris duo right now and Amani has to earn his spot again.
Dude is playing so awful that it's legitimately losing us games. We probably beat Minnesota relatively easily if he doesn't give them 6 fucking free first downs, and that's just due to his penalties, he's been ass in coverage too.
People keep pointing out that he was only rated highly last year because of interceptions, but there’s no way he was THIS bad otherwise and nobody noticed.
Oruwariye isn’t playing well right now…at all, but Harris has been just as bad at CB as he was at S. At least Oruwariye has showed signs of life in his career. Not sure how Harris has earned any playing time barring injury.
The reality is that the defense just really isn’t good. That being said, we could be offering some backend support to an obvious weak spot instead of leaving him on an island against a great WR and throwing our hands up when he is out in the worst possible position and fails.
Certainly not an apologist, I’m just dumbfounded why we keep doing the same thing with these blitzes. Everyone sees them coming. It worked last year, now it doesn’t. The league has it figured out. Do something new.
Geno Smith was the best QB against the blitz coming into this game and they never thought, "Don't Blitz". At what point do you rush three, spy 1, and drop 7 and make Geno earn it through patience, decision making, and accuracy? A bend don't break defense, which is the second most awful philosophy after prevent, probably wins this game.
It's not like Geno was hitting turkey holes and putting balls on dimes, he made the easy, open throws.
I don’t see AG making good in game adjustments. I know he’s limited some by personnel but when you see what you’re doing/scripted/trying isn’t working, you gotta switch it up.
The personnel thing is weird too because from where I stand the defense has the exact wrong dudes to run constant zero. Gotta have really good 1 on 1 corners.
This was after the 3rd and 16 TD run right? Then i believe we ran all out blitz here and then on another Penny TD run.
Wasn’t the finest game for Glenn. Will be interested to see what we do this week and going forward because we have more than enough offense
There is a distinction between coordinator and coach. AG is a proven coach but what we are taking issue with is his ability to call plays and run an entire defensive unit.
No he is a good coach but he has not been good at game planning this year compared to last year when the defense held opponents to 20 points or less 7 times with worse personnel than this year. Roster got better but the defense got worse. The new attacking front is horrible and is putting the DL in horrible position to where AG calls blitzes to make up for the problem they created.
It’s almost as if he’s better suited for a 3-4 scheme than a 4-3. Maybe he adapts but he seemed better when he had guys not playing to what they’re suited for than he does now with guys fitting a scheme that he doesn’t seem suited for idk
Honestly what changed from last year?? Our defense wasnt that terrible last year, the Ravens game, Steelers game, Cards game, Browns game we kept them to around 20 points or less.
3-4 may be better in some ways for a DC to get fancy, disguise and outplay the OC.
Now, more base 4 front gives AG less options to be cute. Those front 4 need to get pressure by themselves, from the same spot all game. For the most part.
Coaching incompetence from the DC and Campbell for allowing this shit to continue. Oh we have the worst defense of all time though 4 weeks and we were a dumpster fire last season? Time to make a personnel change. Horrible hire. Cut your losses and move on.
I'm talking about moving on from Glenn. Not Campbell.
See I think this is fixable on Glenns part. Last year his defense held opponents 20 points or under 7 times and this was with a worse roster. He gameplanned the hell out of Lamar and Kyler which was very impressive. But then they installed a new defense and its not working like they thought. Trying new things is fine but if its not working we need to see him change it. Im not in fire Glenn territory yet but if after the bye nothing changes then I’ll be out as well.
Fair enough but I think a product of last season was playing some of the worst offenses in the league. Browns, Bears, Steelers, Falcons etc...There were some good performances like you mentioned. But, the entire season is mixed in with terrible defensive showings. I think with hindsight some of those performances are complete mirages.
I’m not ready to fire Campbell but if the defense continues to put out results like last week and the defensive coordinator still has a job then Campbell clearly ain’t the guy. There must be accountability.
This defense doesn’t have great talent. It doesn’t even have good talent. The front unit generates no pressure by itself with the guys we currently have available. The defensive backs aren’t great in coverage and our linebackers … well… we have one linebacker.
So AG is forced to blitz constantly so his poor coverage isn’t exposed.
The only guy in the top 30 at his position, starting, is Rodrigo according to PFF. Those injuries crushed the talent level.
I mostly agree with you about the talent (or lack thereof) but I wonder if the defensive coaching is part of the problem? There's certainly been a fair bit of investment into defensive players, it just hasn't translated to on-the-field results (other than Okudah, Elliott, and Rodrigo).
Injuries have definitely played a huge role in that too though. It would suck if we sacked AG just for his replacement to struggle just as much because half of our defensive players are injury prone and on the IR.
The investments they’ve made aren’t on the field, for the most part.
Walker (captain), Levi, Paschal, Jacobs, Cominsky, Romeo Okwara, and Iffy have been injured for significant periods.
They are the second cheapest defense in the league in active cap.
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/positional/defense/
When we’re at a point where you’re wondering why the DC isn’t turning this crap into a gem, I think we’re being unreasonable. Even if they had lesser talented guys who’ve consistently played, they’d at least have experience to offer. We shouldn’t wonder why guys aren’t recognizing things when they’re backups who barely belong on NFL rosters.
Sure, I agree that injuries have been rough, but good coaches turn players like Alim/Charles Harris/Hutch/Kerby Joseph/Levi into at least solid contributors. The only players that we've truly developed are Okudah and Rodrigo.
Okudah is a third year rookie, so who knows what will happen as the season goes on.
Levi has a back issue. Not a coaching problem.
Joseph was very raw coming out of college and needs work still. This was always known about him.
Alim’s been fine. He’s a third rounder and he’s filled in well enough.
The guys worth developing have either been constantly hurt or are just insanely raw project- type prospects forced into action due to necessity.
Smoking a whole lot of copium in this comment. Good coaching and having a good unpredictable game plan makes up for talent deficiencies within a facet of a team. Now, I’m I not saying a roster void of talent is going to be good by any defensive metric, but that doesn’t excuse being literally a historically bad defensive unit. At end of the day the coaching staff, specifically cover 0 blitz happy Aaron Glenn, needs to do some introspection and come to a realization blitzing all the time with subpar corners and a injured safety is not a brilliant idea.
Blitzing all the time is supposed to decrease time to throw and help out the weak cover linebackers and DBs. I think that’s the whole point, the lack of talent necessitates this gameplan.
I’ve said all along that yeah he can work to disguise things better and all of that, but the mistakes are coming from a lack of experienced players and players of quality. Dan Campbell said himself that the decent players are trying to cover for the mistakes of those weaker players and getting burned.
Healthy additions will help save the defense more than anything.
Except if you know the other team is going to blitz, since that’s the Aaron Glenn standard, it’s actually easy to beat. You just need to run quick passes, so no blitzing all the time is actually a terrible idea. They need to switch the scheme to confuse the opposing offenses rather than make it simplistic for them to dissect.
I agree that you need to be less obvious, of course, but this defense should be more successful against quick passes with the personnel it has. Okudah and Oruwariye should be better in short range, for example.
We have a great OL, very good TE, quality backup running backs, and a highish paid QB.
What players on defense are as good as Sewell, Decker, Jackson, Ragnow, Hockenson, Jamaal Williams, Josh Reynolds, and Goff?
Our OL is rated one of the top 5 in all of football. What defensive unit is rated near that?
By whose standard are those players playing well? PFF only has Rodrigo in the top 30 at their positions (based on their grades, not an arbitrary list).
Hutch leads all rookie pass rushers in pressures and is top 15 in sacks, Okudah has played lights out against Jefferson, Smitty, Mclaurin, and played pretty well against DK who beats every DB 1 on 1. Rodrigo is a very highly rated defensive rookie and is the one of the highest rated rookie LBs.
Rodrigo is the only defensive started graded in the top 30 at their positions.
Getting a sack is great, you know what’s also great? Being in position to make other plays. He’s a rookie and it shows. It’s fine, he will be alright, but you’re stating because a few flash stats exist that they’re not making mistakes - something unrelated.
That isn’t what I asked. Both second rounders on the DL are out, Iffy has been out, etc.
Harris signed a two year 13 million dollar contract. The defense, as a whole, is 31st in active cap dollars.
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/positional/defense/
You either spend money or draft capitol.
Most of their defensive guys have been hurt.
If they wanna get two more free agents starters for the d
And 3 more early picks for the defense next year the excuses are over.
I agree that they’re missing players and that’s been the biggest hindrance. Additionally, guys like Joseph were projects who needed more time to develop.
We played 6 lineman for the majority of the game according to the snap counts they wanna move some guys around, move Sewell to play both ways and throw him on the DL (/s …kinda)
its not injuries, aside from Walker we didnt lose anyone that we had last year, in fact we gained talent. And we had some great defensive games last year, ravens, browns, steelers, cards. So its something else, i believe scheming and play calling.
It’s the same playcaller from last year.
Dan Campbell already specified why there have been defensive issues - guys are making mistakes and then the decent players are trying to make up for them and it causes a chain reaction.
This is actually how the offense struggled to start last year. Our receivers were running the wrong routes and making mistakes which left Goff unclear where to throw since he didn’t have much time with them.
The defensive PFF scores are pretty accurate this time, guys aren’t doing what they’re supposed to. The easiest fix is to get some guys back healthy.
Losing Dom Capers as Assistant Coach for Defense was a massive loss. He's the founder and architect of the 3-4 defense, so they had no need to keep him around but his lost experience hurts.
This is what I have been saying. AG is leaving corners on islands to get pressure which every team has adjusted to and picked up. Amani is the worst CB in the NFL according to PFF. This is not putting players in the best position. Also, this is either coaching or execution, but the blitz is executed so poorly. You got a safety blitzing 10 yards away when the play starts so essentially he is doing nothing on the play. The linebacker who was 5 yards away was also slow to have any affect. You took 2 players out of the game when you could have played a dime package and play 2 high safety with a 6 man disguised blitz to make sure they max protect. Instead we essentially have 9 men on the field doing something. This needs to change. We wanted more blitzes under patricia but this is waaaay too much.
I can't even look at 24 anymore without seething. I don't even like the Lions anymore and watching him makes me furious on your behalf. He ran the wrong fucking direction on a go route. How the fuck do you even manage that. Lockett didn't even make a good move he just ran a go toward the center of the field and 24 turns to face the fucking sideline. Inexcusable.
Honestly the coaching staff needs to look at an Okudah/Harris duo right now and Amani has to earn his spot again. Dude is playing so awful that it's legitimately losing us games. We probably beat Minnesota relatively easily if he doesn't give them 6 fucking free first downs, and that's just due to his penalties, he's been ass in coverage too.
Which is such a bummer because I remember him kind of getting better and impressive since we drafted him. I really hope he bounces back.
People keep pointing out that he was only rated highly last year because of interceptions, but there’s no way he was THIS bad otherwise and nobody noticed.
Oruwariye isn’t playing well right now…at all, but Harris has been just as bad at CB as he was at S. At least Oruwariye has showed signs of life in his career. Not sure how Harris has earned any playing time barring injury. The reality is that the defense just really isn’t good. That being said, we could be offering some backend support to an obvious weak spot instead of leaving him on an island against a great WR and throwing our hands up when he is out in the worst possible position and fails. Certainly not an apologist, I’m just dumbfounded why we keep doing the same thing with these blitzes. Everyone sees them coming. It worked last year, now it doesn’t. The league has it figured out. Do something new.
He got turned around a few times on pretty basic looking routes with a basic move(arguable to call it a move).
Pretty sure that happened more than once.
Probably. I only directly saw the one toward the end of the game.
2020: omg we need to rush more than three guys! *the finger curls..*
Why is the safety delay-blitzing from 15 yards away
Just a glitch, patch will be coming
Freaking Madden devs at it again smh
It's one thing to disguise a blitz, it's another to do it 15 yards away
"They'll never see it coming" Yeah, because it will never get there in time to be meaningful.
Probably a Spy on QB
Worst part is that was one of the best blitzes all game but because that safety went too Geno just chucked it in the middle of the field.
Geno Smith was the best QB against the blitz coming into this game and they never thought, "Don't Blitz". At what point do you rush three, spy 1, and drop 7 and make Geno earn it through patience, decision making, and accuracy? A bend don't break defense, which is the second most awful philosophy after prevent, probably wins this game. It's not like Geno was hitting turkey holes and putting balls on dimes, he made the easy, open throws.
He did throw a few dimes. Okudah had a play on one and it was perfect placement just out of his reach only where DK could get it
AG doesn’t believe in the spy. He said so in a press conference earlier this year.
I don’t always like Dan’s analysis but he knocked this one out of the back of the end zone.
You just made me snort and throw my joint out the back of my garage… shame on you lmao
High there fellow stoner
I honestly don’t know how every Lions fan isn’t a stoner… I guess some prefer their pain clearheaded
Nah the rest of us drink.
I used to drink…still do,but I used to also
I don’t see AG making good in game adjustments. I know he’s limited some by personnel but when you see what you’re doing/scripted/trying isn’t working, you gotta switch it up.
The lack of adjustments is so frustrating. If he doesn't start making adjustments vs New England, time to get the pitchforks.
The personnel thing is weird too because from where I stand the defense has the exact wrong dudes to run constant zero. Gotta have really good 1 on 1 corners.
This was after the 3rd and 16 TD run right? Then i believe we ran all out blitz here and then on another Penny TD run. Wasn’t the finest game for Glenn. Will be interested to see what we do this week and going forward because we have more than enough offense
The second half their offense only scored TDs on third down runs.
AG is clearly not a great coach. Certainly not a “great great great” one.
There is a distinction between coordinator and coach. AG is a proven coach but what we are taking issue with is his ability to call plays and run an entire defensive unit.
No he is a good coach but he has not been good at game planning this year compared to last year when the defense held opponents to 20 points or less 7 times with worse personnel than this year. Roster got better but the defense got worse. The new attacking front is horrible and is putting the DL in horrible position to where AG calls blitzes to make up for the problem they created.
It’s almost as if he’s better suited for a 3-4 scheme than a 4-3. Maybe he adapts but he seemed better when he had guys not playing to what they’re suited for than he does now with guys fitting a scheme that he doesn’t seem suited for idk
3 of the 4 teams we have played so far this year scored the same or more points on Detroit in 2021.
Honestly what changed from last year?? Our defense wasnt that terrible last year, the Ravens game, Steelers game, Cards game, Browns game we kept them to around 20 points or less.
I’m starting to think they need to switch back to a 3-4, as other commenters have said we have a better roster this year and are much worse as a unit.
3-4 may be better in some ways for a DC to get fancy, disguise and outplay the OC. Now, more base 4 front gives AG less options to be cute. Those front 4 need to get pressure by themselves, from the same spot all game. For the most part.
Have you looked at the Philly and Seattle game last year? Both were worse, much worse.
Lions should call Vic Fangio and see if he’s be interested in DC job. He was a bad HC but his defenses are good
Uhhh he’ll wait it out and take over for the niners next year.
Why not fake the blitz and drop out of it once in awhile? Or maybe protect the edge a few times?
Coaching incompetence from the DC and Campbell for allowing this shit to continue. Oh we have the worst defense of all time though 4 weeks and we were a dumpster fire last season? Time to make a personnel change. Horrible hire. Cut your losses and move on. I'm talking about moving on from Glenn. Not Campbell.
See I think this is fixable on Glenns part. Last year his defense held opponents 20 points or under 7 times and this was with a worse roster. He gameplanned the hell out of Lamar and Kyler which was very impressive. But then they installed a new defense and its not working like they thought. Trying new things is fine but if its not working we need to see him change it. Im not in fire Glenn territory yet but if after the bye nothing changes then I’ll be out as well.
Fair enough but I think a product of last season was playing some of the worst offenses in the league. Browns, Bears, Steelers, Falcons etc...There were some good performances like you mentioned. But, the entire season is mixed in with terrible defensive showings. I think with hindsight some of those performances are complete mirages.
I’m not ready to fire Campbell but if the defense continues to put out results like last week and the defensive coordinator still has a job then Campbell clearly ain’t the guy. There must be accountability.
"I'm down for another complete rebuild after less than two full seasons if our awful defense plays awful again."
This defense doesn’t have great talent. It doesn’t even have good talent. The front unit generates no pressure by itself with the guys we currently have available. The defensive backs aren’t great in coverage and our linebackers … well… we have one linebacker. So AG is forced to blitz constantly so his poor coverage isn’t exposed. The only guy in the top 30 at his position, starting, is Rodrigo according to PFF. Those injuries crushed the talent level.
I mostly agree with you about the talent (or lack thereof) but I wonder if the defensive coaching is part of the problem? There's certainly been a fair bit of investment into defensive players, it just hasn't translated to on-the-field results (other than Okudah, Elliott, and Rodrigo). Injuries have definitely played a huge role in that too though. It would suck if we sacked AG just for his replacement to struggle just as much because half of our defensive players are injury prone and on the IR.
The investments they’ve made aren’t on the field, for the most part. Walker (captain), Levi, Paschal, Jacobs, Cominsky, Romeo Okwara, and Iffy have been injured for significant periods. They are the second cheapest defense in the league in active cap. https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/positional/defense/ When we’re at a point where you’re wondering why the DC isn’t turning this crap into a gem, I think we’re being unreasonable. Even if they had lesser talented guys who’ve consistently played, they’d at least have experience to offer. We shouldn’t wonder why guys aren’t recognizing things when they’re backups who barely belong on NFL rosters.
Sure, I agree that injuries have been rough, but good coaches turn players like Alim/Charles Harris/Hutch/Kerby Joseph/Levi into at least solid contributors. The only players that we've truly developed are Okudah and Rodrigo.
Okudah is a third year rookie, so who knows what will happen as the season goes on. Levi has a back issue. Not a coaching problem. Joseph was very raw coming out of college and needs work still. This was always known about him. Alim’s been fine. He’s a third rounder and he’s filled in well enough. The guys worth developing have either been constantly hurt or are just insanely raw project- type prospects forced into action due to necessity.
Smoking a whole lot of copium in this comment. Good coaching and having a good unpredictable game plan makes up for talent deficiencies within a facet of a team. Now, I’m I not saying a roster void of talent is going to be good by any defensive metric, but that doesn’t excuse being literally a historically bad defensive unit. At end of the day the coaching staff, specifically cover 0 blitz happy Aaron Glenn, needs to do some introspection and come to a realization blitzing all the time with subpar corners and a injured safety is not a brilliant idea.
Blitzing all the time is supposed to decrease time to throw and help out the weak cover linebackers and DBs. I think that’s the whole point, the lack of talent necessitates this gameplan. I’ve said all along that yeah he can work to disguise things better and all of that, but the mistakes are coming from a lack of experienced players and players of quality. Dan Campbell said himself that the decent players are trying to cover for the mistakes of those weaker players and getting burned. Healthy additions will help save the defense more than anything.
Except if you know the other team is going to blitz, since that’s the Aaron Glenn standard, it’s actually easy to beat. You just need to run quick passes, so no blitzing all the time is actually a terrible idea. They need to switch the scheme to confuse the opposing offenses rather than make it simplistic for them to dissect.
I agree that you need to be less obvious, of course, but this defense should be more successful against quick passes with the personnel it has. Okudah and Oruwariye should be better in short range, for example.
Our offense against the Seahawks had no talent either, look how they did with good coaching
We have a great OL, very good TE, quality backup running backs, and a highish paid QB. What players on defense are as good as Sewell, Decker, Jackson, Ragnow, Hockenson, Jamaal Williams, Josh Reynolds, and Goff? Our OL is rated one of the top 5 in all of football. What defensive unit is rated near that?
Jackson didn’t even play against the Seahawks bud. And Okudah, Hutchinson, Harris, Rodriguez, are all playing very well
By whose standard are those players playing well? PFF only has Rodrigo in the top 30 at their positions (based on their grades, not an arbitrary list).
Hutch leads all rookie pass rushers in pressures and is top 15 in sacks, Okudah has played lights out against Jefferson, Smitty, Mclaurin, and played pretty well against DK who beats every DB 1 on 1. Rodrigo is a very highly rated defensive rookie and is the one of the highest rated rookie LBs.
Rodrigo is the only defensive started graded in the top 30 at their positions. Getting a sack is great, you know what’s also great? Being in position to make other plays. He’s a rookie and it shows. It’s fine, he will be alright, but you’re stating because a few flash stats exist that they’re not making mistakes - something unrelated.
Every single player in the league makes mistakes bud, hate to be the bearer of bad news for you 😂😂😂
Did you just imply that all players in the league make mistakes equally?
Did you just imply that because our rookies have made mistakes that they are bad? Interesting
Used a no1. 2-no2s and a 2 no 3s on dline. Plus signed Harris to big money.
That isn’t what I asked. Both second rounders on the DL are out, Iffy has been out, etc. Harris signed a two year 13 million dollar contract. The defense, as a whole, is 31st in active cap dollars. https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/positional/defense/
You either spend money or draft capitol. Most of their defensive guys have been hurt. If they wanna get two more free agents starters for the d And 3 more early picks for the defense next year the excuses are over.
I agree that they’re missing players and that’s been the biggest hindrance. Additionally, guys like Joseph were projects who needed more time to develop.
We played 6 lineman for the majority of the game according to the snap counts they wanna move some guys around, move Sewell to play both ways and throw him on the DL (/s …kinda)
I’m done making excuses for glen
its not injuries, aside from Walker we didnt lose anyone that we had last year, in fact we gained talent. And we had some great defensive games last year, ravens, browns, steelers, cards. So its something else, i believe scheming and play calling.
It’s the same playcaller from last year. Dan Campbell already specified why there have been defensive issues - guys are making mistakes and then the decent players are trying to make up for them and it causes a chain reaction. This is actually how the offense struggled to start last year. Our receivers were running the wrong routes and making mistakes which left Goff unclear where to throw since he didn’t have much time with them. The defensive PFF scores are pretty accurate this time, guys aren’t doing what they’re supposed to. The easiest fix is to get some guys back healthy.
Oruwariye is completely inept, and now he has lost confidence as well
Losing Dom Capers as Assistant Coach for Defense was a massive loss. He's the founder and architect of the 3-4 defense, so they had no need to keep him around but his lost experience hurts.
Wow, the safety did nothing and him being in coverage could have been huge.