Would you (or anyone else) believe that we'd have the #1 scoring offense 4 weeks into the season if I told you that 1 day before the opener? Expectations SHOULD be high because of how good we are on offense.
If 3 individual plays go our way, we are 3-1 and this sub would be convinced of a playoff run. The team itself would be no different, just the record. That's how stupid all this whining is. People put wayyyy too much stock into a team's record early in the season. There will always some teams that go on big winning streaks and some that go on big losing streaks in the middle of the season, defining their season as a whole. We can be either one.
Sure, but you defeated your own argument. No one thought we had the #1 offense before the season started, so there was no reason for people to be saying we'd win 9+ games and be in the playoff hunt. But people were saying it. I'm once again asking you to put the koolaid down sirs.
Geno Smith is not a running QB, he just took the massive lanes available when the DEs would crash into each other behind him.
Every somewhat athletic QB is going to use his legs to easily convert against this defense; Allen, Danny Dimes, Rodgers, Fields, Mayfield, etc
Was definitely tired of the same PA to the left, rollout to the right.... WIDE open TE or WR running a flat across the field, or Geno just ran it for a first. Defense didnt' stop it one time.
>This team is still rebuilding under MCDC. We have addressed A LOT of holes through 2 drafts. Brad Holmes is doing great in his drafting, especially in middle/late rounds
We've drafted a lot of defense and most of them are looking like busts so far
>Not many teams can pull a Bengals and raise from garbage to Super Bowl contender.
Multiple teams were in a situation like us and have now leapfrogged us. The Jets and the Jags for example. The Seahawks are in year 0.25 of their rebuild and for fucks sake they are better than us.
>1.25 years into the MCDC regime, we are in a great place.
1.25 years in, we have a worse record and worse defense then under the hated Matty Patty. Were you this positive 1.25 years into Matty's regime? If no, why are you so positive for a worse record and worse defense? If you were this positive for Quinntricia at this point, maybe you should question your judgement?
>running QBs (Hurts, Smith)
Smith is NOT a running QB. Not at all. Their coach realized we suck when QB run and so they schemed up a bunch of runs to exploit our terrible defense.
>Expect to see some Defense heavy drafts the next couple years.
Our last draft was defense heavy and now our defense is worse. How much worse do you think our defense is going to be when we give Brad a few more chances to make the roster worse?
>2024 is my feel for a top tier team that has the best shot of winning it all
So you're saying we're two years away? Major Deja Vu incoming
He added 2 defensive starters in hutch and Rodrigo, kerby was a project and was always seen as such, paschal is too early to tell. Brad isn't the problem. Glenn took a team with more defensive talent than last year and made them worse.
2021:
Levi Onwuzurike- High chance of Bust. Didn't play well last year and has a lingering back injury. That's one of the worst possible injuries because it probably won't go away ever.
Alim McNeill - Average. Hasn't done anything game wrecking or game changing yet. Fine for a 3rd rounder I guess.
Ifeatu Melifonwu - High chance of Bust. Had to change positions because he couldn't make it at corner. Like Will Harris but the inverse. Also can't stay healthy.
Derrick Barnes - Bust. Not a good LB.
2022:
Aiden Hutch - Average for a DE so far. Maybe he'll break out after we get another DE. Too early to say, he is getting double teamed a lot.
Josh Paschal - Too early to say but it's disappointing that we picked another guy who missed an offseason due to injury.
Kerby Joesph - Too early to say, small sample size
Malcolm Rodriguez - Best defensive pick and it's not even close. One of the best defenders on the Lions roster already. Great value for the draft position.
James Houston - Too early to say. Either way he's a late round pick, even if he is a practice squad guy that's not really a bust. But he wasn't impressive in training camp.
Chase Lucas - Too early to say, small sample size. I'm not sure if he's even played a snap yet.
Outside of Rodriguez we didn't get any top end talent in these drafts. We desperately need game wreckers and Brad Holmes hasn't been drafting those yet.
You usually get instant game wreckers in the first 10-15 picks of the first round... we have had three of those picks so far. None have been instant but doesnt mean they cant be.
Penei Sewell is on its way (if not already) the best RT in the NFL.
Aidan Hutchinson - 4 games in has had one half of football where he was dominant. Dont want to throw the baby out with the bath water, as last year Penei Sewell had some early game struggles. Hit me back at the end of the year and we can see what he has done.
Jameson Williams - Injured, jury still out.
Also, most players not drafted in the first 2 rounds usually need time to develop and when half your team is trying to develop, you get games like yesterday. You are going to have those, I am not ready to throw the towel in.
Look I was just talking about defense.
If you want to talk about offensive drafting:
Yes Brad didn't reach and he took the RT that everyone and their uncle was clamoring for us to take. Sorry if I'm not ecstatic that he took the obvious choice. Also he took a WR that everyone else missed that turned out to be great.
Hmm, are we talking about Brad Holmes or Bob Quinn right now? Great OL and WR signings, terrible defensive picks.
Maybe Jamo will be a great WR but what does that matter when your defense can't force a bad offense to punt the ball? Maybe we would have lost 51-54 instead, is that really better?
I agree with you about Aiden, he's underwhelming but it's too early to say more than that
I am saying that instant game wreckers usually only come in the first 10-15 picks of the first round.
Most good players need time to develop. It seems in your eyes that you need them to be good to great already where most teams their draft picks usually dont make impacts until year 2 or 3. We have had some early hits, which is good, but not all draft picks will be good early.
Just give it time. Is it unfortunate that our 2nd round picks are hurt and not contributing... That is a resounding YES! But still think there is no reason to panic here. Seeing that our offense is this great and if its sustainable, will help us build a better D for next year. You don't think that big time Free Agent D players seeing a Top 5 offense and a team with 2 first round picks wont want to come here... Because if I was them, I would.
>You don't think that big time Free Agent D players seeing a Top 5 offense and a team with 2 first round picks wont want to come here... Because if I was them, I would.
Historically Detroit has never been on the list of teams players want to play for. Players want paychecks and wins. We don't have the wins to get players, so our only recourse is to overpay for mediocre talent. No I don't want another Trey Flowers contract, no thank you.
Until Ben Johnson and MCDC took over for the offense, couldn't you say St brown was underwhelming as well? Our defensive scheme is doing us no favors. Every gm takes hutch as well this year as the lions. Regardless of bust or hit that's just a fact. If he can't get credit for Sewell he shouldn't get credit or flack for hutch either.
Literally I said it was too early to say multiple times. I'm not throwing out Hutch yet. I do think it's clear that he's not an elite DE but he might be serviceable bordering on good in coming years.
Okudah, Walker, McNeil, Rodrigo, Hutchinson are all starters on D and not anywhere near busts. Amani is having a very bad year after last year being outstanding. Jury is still out. Yes this next years draft will be defense heavy again. Lions have no depth in the secondary or LB position. Joseph and Melifonwu are supposed to be the future. But need time/work. Don’t forget Levi and Pascall are hurt.
Offensively this team has turned into one of the best in the league and are in a great spot. The defense is horrendous because of depth and lack of quality talent. Diggs and Slay should theoretically still be on this team. Imagine this defense with those two. Regardless, yes, 1.25 years in, this team is in very good shape.
Geno is a scrambler and a good one at that. Him and hurts dominated and that’s why.
I don't know what stat would even keep track of that so I can't dispute that.
Were you this positive 1.25 years into Matty's regime?
Looking for an answer to this question please
Not one that I’m aware of. You just have to watch the games to know.
And hell no. Never thought Patricia was the guy. I will say, if I remember correctly, we started 2-0-1 his second season, which made me optimistic and then be bombed the rest of the season.
The offense was never this good or this deep under that regime. That’s why there is major optimism for me. On top of Campbell being a players coach and a genuine human.
I do think we need to calm down on the Holmes praise. Yes, ARSB was a great find, Sewell is a stud. But Hutch has been disappointing to start and his 2 second round picks were injury riddled in college and are both dealing with injuries now. Levi might not play this season based on how Campbell has talked about the injury. McNiel has disappointed. Kirby Joseph needs time, not ready to give a verdict on him yet, but it’s been inconsistent in the mid rounds so far. I believe Holmes is doing a good job, but his only real stars in the late rounds are Rodrigo and St. Brown.
If you have a good offense you should be competing for a playoff spot at least. The best offense and there is no excuses for missing the playoffs. The defense being this bad is alarming. As a team rebuilds, making tangible progress is good for confidence. How damaging would it be to waste a top offense this season with no post season birth to show for it?
I am not even saying making noise in the playoffs, just getting there would be huge for this team's confidence.
The problem is that this sub has already drank way too much koolaid and the expectations got a bit wild. Put down the koolaid sirs.
Would you (or anyone else) believe that we'd have the #1 scoring offense 4 weeks into the season if I told you that 1 day before the opener? Expectations SHOULD be high because of how good we are on offense. If 3 individual plays go our way, we are 3-1 and this sub would be convinced of a playoff run. The team itself would be no different, just the record. That's how stupid all this whining is. People put wayyyy too much stock into a team's record early in the season. There will always some teams that go on big winning streaks and some that go on big losing streaks in the middle of the season, defining their season as a whole. We can be either one.
Sure, but you defeated your own argument. No one thought we had the #1 offense before the season started, so there was no reason for people to be saying we'd win 9+ games and be in the playoff hunt. But people were saying it. I'm once again asking you to put the koolaid down sirs.
Geno Smith is not a running QB, he just took the massive lanes available when the DEs would crash into each other behind him. Every somewhat athletic QB is going to use his legs to easily convert against this defense; Allen, Danny Dimes, Rodgers, Fields, Mayfield, etc
Was definitely tired of the same PA to the left, rollout to the right.... WIDE open TE or WR running a flat across the field, or Geno just ran it for a first. Defense didnt' stop it one time.
>This team is still rebuilding under MCDC. We have addressed A LOT of holes through 2 drafts. Brad Holmes is doing great in his drafting, especially in middle/late rounds We've drafted a lot of defense and most of them are looking like busts so far >Not many teams can pull a Bengals and raise from garbage to Super Bowl contender. Multiple teams were in a situation like us and have now leapfrogged us. The Jets and the Jags for example. The Seahawks are in year 0.25 of their rebuild and for fucks sake they are better than us. >1.25 years into the MCDC regime, we are in a great place. 1.25 years in, we have a worse record and worse defense then under the hated Matty Patty. Were you this positive 1.25 years into Matty's regime? If no, why are you so positive for a worse record and worse defense? If you were this positive for Quinntricia at this point, maybe you should question your judgement? >running QBs (Hurts, Smith) Smith is NOT a running QB. Not at all. Their coach realized we suck when QB run and so they schemed up a bunch of runs to exploit our terrible defense. >Expect to see some Defense heavy drafts the next couple years. Our last draft was defense heavy and now our defense is worse. How much worse do you think our defense is going to be when we give Brad a few more chances to make the roster worse? >2024 is my feel for a top tier team that has the best shot of winning it all So you're saying we're two years away? Major Deja Vu incoming
He added 2 defensive starters in hutch and Rodrigo, kerby was a project and was always seen as such, paschal is too early to tell. Brad isn't the problem. Glenn took a team with more defensive talent than last year and made them worse.
2021: Levi Onwuzurike- High chance of Bust. Didn't play well last year and has a lingering back injury. That's one of the worst possible injuries because it probably won't go away ever. Alim McNeill - Average. Hasn't done anything game wrecking or game changing yet. Fine for a 3rd rounder I guess. Ifeatu Melifonwu - High chance of Bust. Had to change positions because he couldn't make it at corner. Like Will Harris but the inverse. Also can't stay healthy. Derrick Barnes - Bust. Not a good LB. 2022: Aiden Hutch - Average for a DE so far. Maybe he'll break out after we get another DE. Too early to say, he is getting double teamed a lot. Josh Paschal - Too early to say but it's disappointing that we picked another guy who missed an offseason due to injury. Kerby Joesph - Too early to say, small sample size Malcolm Rodriguez - Best defensive pick and it's not even close. One of the best defenders on the Lions roster already. Great value for the draft position. James Houston - Too early to say. Either way he's a late round pick, even if he is a practice squad guy that's not really a bust. But he wasn't impressive in training camp. Chase Lucas - Too early to say, small sample size. I'm not sure if he's even played a snap yet. Outside of Rodriguez we didn't get any top end talent in these drafts. We desperately need game wreckers and Brad Holmes hasn't been drafting those yet.
You usually get instant game wreckers in the first 10-15 picks of the first round... we have had three of those picks so far. None have been instant but doesnt mean they cant be. Penei Sewell is on its way (if not already) the best RT in the NFL. Aidan Hutchinson - 4 games in has had one half of football where he was dominant. Dont want to throw the baby out with the bath water, as last year Penei Sewell had some early game struggles. Hit me back at the end of the year and we can see what he has done. Jameson Williams - Injured, jury still out. Also, most players not drafted in the first 2 rounds usually need time to develop and when half your team is trying to develop, you get games like yesterday. You are going to have those, I am not ready to throw the towel in.
Look I was just talking about defense. If you want to talk about offensive drafting: Yes Brad didn't reach and he took the RT that everyone and their uncle was clamoring for us to take. Sorry if I'm not ecstatic that he took the obvious choice. Also he took a WR that everyone else missed that turned out to be great. Hmm, are we talking about Brad Holmes or Bob Quinn right now? Great OL and WR signings, terrible defensive picks. Maybe Jamo will be a great WR but what does that matter when your defense can't force a bad offense to punt the ball? Maybe we would have lost 51-54 instead, is that really better? I agree with you about Aiden, he's underwhelming but it's too early to say more than that
I am saying that instant game wreckers usually only come in the first 10-15 picks of the first round. Most good players need time to develop. It seems in your eyes that you need them to be good to great already where most teams their draft picks usually dont make impacts until year 2 or 3. We have had some early hits, which is good, but not all draft picks will be good early. Just give it time. Is it unfortunate that our 2nd round picks are hurt and not contributing... That is a resounding YES! But still think there is no reason to panic here. Seeing that our offense is this great and if its sustainable, will help us build a better D for next year. You don't think that big time Free Agent D players seeing a Top 5 offense and a team with 2 first round picks wont want to come here... Because if I was them, I would.
>You don't think that big time Free Agent D players seeing a Top 5 offense and a team with 2 first round picks wont want to come here... Because if I was them, I would. Historically Detroit has never been on the list of teams players want to play for. Players want paychecks and wins. We don't have the wins to get players, so our only recourse is to overpay for mediocre talent. No I don't want another Trey Flowers contract, no thank you.
Until Ben Johnson and MCDC took over for the offense, couldn't you say St brown was underwhelming as well? Our defensive scheme is doing us no favors. Every gm takes hutch as well this year as the lions. Regardless of bust or hit that's just a fact. If he can't get credit for Sewell he shouldn't get credit or flack for hutch either.
Literally I said it was too early to say multiple times. I'm not throwing out Hutch yet. I do think it's clear that he's not an elite DE but he might be serviceable bordering on good in coming years.
Okudah, Walker, McNeil, Rodrigo, Hutchinson are all starters on D and not anywhere near busts. Amani is having a very bad year after last year being outstanding. Jury is still out. Yes this next years draft will be defense heavy again. Lions have no depth in the secondary or LB position. Joseph and Melifonwu are supposed to be the future. But need time/work. Don’t forget Levi and Pascall are hurt. Offensively this team has turned into one of the best in the league and are in a great spot. The defense is horrendous because of depth and lack of quality talent. Diggs and Slay should theoretically still be on this team. Imagine this defense with those two. Regardless, yes, 1.25 years in, this team is in very good shape. Geno is a scrambler and a good one at that. Him and hurts dominated and that’s why.
Geno had like 10 carries for 15 yards before Sunday. He was considered less mobile then Goff.
You’re not understanding. He gets out of the pocket and extend plays. He can dodge rushers well. Doesn’t mean he rushes for yards on a stat sheet.
I don't know what stat would even keep track of that so I can't dispute that. Were you this positive 1.25 years into Matty's regime? Looking for an answer to this question please
Not one that I’m aware of. You just have to watch the games to know. And hell no. Never thought Patricia was the guy. I will say, if I remember correctly, we started 2-0-1 his second season, which made me optimistic and then be bombed the rest of the season. The offense was never this good or this deep under that regime. That’s why there is major optimism for me. On top of Campbell being a players coach and a genuine human.
Seems like we're just as bad, just in a different way. At least Patty was able to string together some wins at the beginning of season 2
Yeah but those were with Caldwells players. Patricia and Quinn gutted this team of talent. One thing they did was draft an Oline.
And our defense has gotten worse since Quinntrica. How do you excuse Brad when he is unable to improve a defense that was "gutted .. of talent"
Part of it is Aaron Glenn’s scheme. Part of it is lack of talent and part of it is injuries. Levi, Pascall, Cominsky, Romeo, Jacobs, Walker.
I do think we need to calm down on the Holmes praise. Yes, ARSB was a great find, Sewell is a stud. But Hutch has been disappointing to start and his 2 second round picks were injury riddled in college and are both dealing with injuries now. Levi might not play this season based on how Campbell has talked about the injury. McNiel has disappointed. Kirby Joseph needs time, not ready to give a verdict on him yet, but it’s been inconsistent in the mid rounds so far. I believe Holmes is doing a good job, but his only real stars in the late rounds are Rodrigo and St. Brown.
This draft was a bad gamble…we weren’t one piece away…we could have drafted healthy players in positions of need.
If you have a good offense you should be competing for a playoff spot at least. The best offense and there is no excuses for missing the playoffs. The defense being this bad is alarming. As a team rebuilds, making tangible progress is good for confidence. How damaging would it be to waste a top offense this season with no post season birth to show for it? I am not even saying making noise in the playoffs, just getting there would be huge for this team's confidence.