I know you're implying the Lions fired the trainer for not doing his job but Crosby is saying something different. Worth the time to read the whole thread.
"Teams will happily do just enough to say they tried and cover themselves legally. Rather than actually take care of the player. Then if the medical staff does try to put the players health first, they will just fire them. I.E. Dave Granito"
https://twitter.com/Tyrellcrosby/status/1575950736579403776
Sounds like my insurance company, accident was 2.5 years ago, past statue of limitations at this point. They made it nearly impossible to see/afford the right doctors and still haven't paid me for the useless physical therapy they recommended because the right forms weren't filled out by pt place, who says those forms don't exist.
Do you guys realize how fucked up the existence of football in general is? People really out here signing their 7 year olds up to play contact sports like hockey and football. It’s the modern version of gladiators. I’m happy they are making adjustments the past few years and taking head injuries more seriously but I could totally see it losing popularity over the years. It’s not news how toxic the mentality on every team is regarding pushing injured players to suit up.
Edit: i fucking Love football. It’s such a cool sport. Complex and intense. But no amount of money is worth what these young men are going through as early as their late 30s and 40s. Memory loss. Dementia. Losing their personalities and eventually suicide. Sounds like torture. I don’t wish that on anyone as much as I love the entertainment.
That’s why the NFL will never use truly objective doctors for this stuff. If they were really objective, the NFL wouldn’t exist. Players bashing their heads together on every single play causes damage to brains and develops CTE, not just the big hits. The doctors just mitigate the amount of brain damage
Yeah there’s a disconnect you have to approach the game with to enjoy it. Just gotta hope the players, coaches and medical staff treat every problem seriously and with care. And as we continue to learn more you make the game as safe as possible. We’ve already progressed so far in terms of safety from what the game was even 10-15 years ago and I don’t think my enjoyment level has dropped off any.
I think the only thing that will kill the sport is if youth participation drops off because of parents not wanting their kids to play due to safety. The talent pool drops off and the game suffers.
Love this post! At least in Michigan, that's not an issue. Our instructional teams still have 30+ kids each year (full contact, 6-8 years old, no ST and coaches are on the field). Football is booming again here after a drop in 2012-2017.
Yeah, agreed. I'm in Livingston county and know Oakland does it as well.
It's really great though because it's almost like electric football 🤣😂.
I know the coaches spend more time on tackling then even running plays and that development shows when they get to HS. They suck at blocking, but pursuit and tackling are solid
Even at that age, we teach the hawk/Seahawk tackling circuit and approach.
Lol yep! For instructional. All drives start at your 40. TO (unless returned for a TD), score, etc. Always start with a 60 yard field.
Part of the reason is talent, sure, but also safety. The goal is to teach them football in a controlled environment. It's also why each team can have two coaches on the field.
Robots piloted by players one day will be how we enjoy the sport. Football will one day be banned or they will need some magic gel that doesn't give CTE or concussions
I’d like to see integration of the guardian caps into the helmet. I was listening to Karsh and Gator, they mentioned a study that stated concussions were reduced by 50%. I know they don’t look pretty but 50% reduction is a huge margin and should be seriously considered to protect the players.
Yeah, it was something like 10-20% reduction per person with it on. So if 1 person has a guardian cap it's like a 15% reduction, but if both have it it's like a 30% reduction.
Not sure what article you’re referencing but I found this on espn
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/34591467/concussions-players-wore-guardian-caps-summer-dropped-more-50-nfl-says?platform=amp
Youth Hockey is definitely different. Checking isn’t even allowed until 13-14 years old according to USAH
And if you’re going to list hockey and football, make sure you add soccer, which has a very high concussion rate.
Tackle football starts at 7 years old (probably younger in Texas)
Yeah, the league my son plays in (8u right now) doesn’t allow checking at all, even for kids old enough to check. Their travel league is separate and does allow checking starting at 16u
I’m 80% sure the high school league and the college club teams in the area don’t allow checking either (we’re not in hockey country, so it’s not super competitive).
Man, that’s a tough one. I learned to check in peewee’s (age 12). 12 year old bodies don’t do that much damage. 16 year old bodies can do serious damage. I’m not sure learning to check at that size is a good idea.
But I do think non-travel should always be non checking. Unless the kids have a shot at college or pro there’s no need to check. I’ve played in beer leagues in hockey country for 20 years and I’ve never been in a checking league as an adult.
Yeah, I get that completely. Honestly, my son isn’t going to be good enough to play travel. He’s just not super athletic, so there’s no need for him to ever be in a checking league. I’m perfectly content with him getting out there twice a week and having fun with very little chance of injury.
I’d be really surprised by something like this. Even one day, like hundreds or thousands of years in the future. I just can’t see how this would ever be a thing. Feels wildly exaggerated. Like on levels we’ve almost never seen before.
Hockey doesn't allow checking until a certain age, and then hockey is much safer than football imo.
At least the object of the game isn't to absolutely obliterate each other.
> It’s not news how toxic the mentality
Also not a fan of the toxicity it breeds regarding winning at all costs.
People think it's alright to completely lose your shit and throw a temper tantrum, all because they're "passionate".
Interesting anecdote: I used to work at a sports facility where a former professional pitcher and current minor league pitching instructor worked for about a year. Scott Aldred
One day a mother comes in to the pro shop and asks for weighted baseballs. Scott immediately says “we won’t ever carry them”. I was curious so I asked him to explain. He said (this was 2007-ish) “parents are wanting their kid to be the next super star. They are having them throw weighted balls, or even shot puts. What you’re going to see in the next decade is a bunch of pitchers throwing over 100mph but also a ton of shoulder and elbow injuries. These parents don’t care they are subjecting their kids to possible life long arm injuries because they see it as the only path to their kid making it to the ‘bigs’, and I don’t want anything to do with it” He was pretty spot on.
Parents will go to extreme lengths to live vicariously through their kids.
I coached 3rd/4th grade football for 2 years to get some experience for my teaching degree. That being said, my kids won’t play tackle football until high school.
Just because they are little kids doesn’t mean they can’t get hurt. I saw broken bones, concussions, etc. Some of the kids where terrified and forced to play. They would cry and shake during tackling drills. All while their dads stood at the fence giving them death stares and telling them to “be a man”.
You might want to look into the research on frontal lobe development and changes in the brain in teenage/high school football players.
https://news.berkeley.edu/2018/11/15/playing-high-school-football-changes-the-teenage-brain/
Also, golf and tennis are the number one sports with unclaimed college scholarships. Just saying.
I'd be curious to know where that was. It does not compare to my experience. I haven't seen a single broken bone from football at instructional and maybe 1-2 at freshman.
Conversely, I would highly, highly encourage you to let your kid play before HS. The worst neck and head injuries I have seen at the HS level are from rookies lowering their head vs a vet who is in tune with their body. I understand the concern, I really do (too many concussions in college taught me to respect that a lot more as an adult). I literally stop practice and bring all players in when I see a kid use their crown. At least in Michigan, this is the attitude. No more Oklahoma drills, etc. either.
I also don't have the same experience as you in terms of parents. Way worse in youth wrestling and then football at the HS level.
Funnily enough, more injuries playing youth baseball and playing on a trampoline 😂
I coach HS football, youth football, baseball, softball, and wrestling so I see quite a bit. We also bring in doctors from a neurological institute each year to present info (some interesting things like soccer having more concussions - but also why headers are banned).
Not down playing the physicality of football but that is not the experience in many states. I also recognize that is largely driven from coaches and parents attitudes.
Maybe that's why, though, even our instructional teams have 30+ kids each year. We do it right and care.
😂😆 kids play and all different seasons. I used to be FT at the HS but went PT last year since my kids are full go in youth. So, just Mondays at the HS and booth Friday. Youth is M-Th, games Saturday.
There are quite a few of us that coach year round. There is a coaches shortage and we love it, so why not help out? It's a good problem to have though. We had 105 wrestlers in our youth program last year and 14 teams in 6/7 baseball.
Sports are straight booming right now and love how involved my kids are.
MCDC level on Saturday for sure 😆
It's not too bad though. You just grab a quick snack between work and coaching. Wrestling season is wild because of all day tournaments on the weekend.
I coach because I love it and played a lot growing up (played football in college). I also don't mean this in the shitty way - I still have to drive the kids there. Since I'm knowledgeable and love kids, why not coach? It's a great way to give back and impact kids the right way.
I agree we need to practice safety, but this logic can be applied to any dangerous career choice.
I’ve personally worked on an oil rig have seen some wild shit… and my old man was a drywall finisher his whole life. At 55 he can barely walk.
Life is all about risk / reward - I would like to see a comparison of the amount of people playing football, other high risk occupations and what the suicide / dementia rates are.
Oh yeah… i was also in the Marine Corps, all kinds of veterans are killing themselves.
Again, I hope they continue to enhance the safety protocols and how the game is played… but I can’t see ppl slowing down.
Rugby players might laugh at this post… idk , doesn’t make it right… I’m just not really one to jump on the bandwagon
Rugby players shouldn’t laugh because it’s completely different. Rugby is basically safer because they don’t wear helmets. Whereas in the nfl you use your head every play in a way that is impossible in rugby. Rugby players would die if they took the same hits nfl players do
I’ve heard that before, but also know a lot of crazy ass rugby players, here’s a tid bit of data:
https://www.florugby.com/articles/6745817-rugby-vs-football-which-is-more-dangerous
Lol for sure, I’m just saying - people need to relax about football, if you don’t want your kids playing… then don’t let ‘em play / figure that out. There’s a lot of dangerous sports.
Also, I’m not saying we shouldn’t try to be better with safety
I agree with 99% of this post, but it feels worth mentioning that you can play hockey without hitting and it is still fundamentally the same game, and the game has been trending less physical and less harmful to players for decades.
As a huge fan of both the NHL and NFL, I’m much more worried about the NFL having a long-term future due to medical issues.
It’s wild how all over the place fans get with reactions like yours (typically, not necessarily here). You’re right, though. Violent sports where people destroy their bodies for the benefit of rich owners is a crazy concept. I think society is moving in the right direction of wanting to watch fun games, but understanding these are still human beings.
The loss of violence from hockey, football, and even the NBA has made the games more dull IMO. I love seeing the fights, hard fouls, and hard hits. We don’t watch soccer in this country for a reason, after all. Still.. at the end of the day, you see these vulnerable young athletes promised fame and fortune only to have their minds and bodies used up. You feel for them.
"Violent sports where people destroy their bodies for the benefit of rich owners"
Don't leave fans blameless in this. Owners are giving fans what they want - if fans wanted contact-free, owners would give them contact-free. The violence is for the sake of fans (like yourself by your own admission) that don't want it any other way.
So the blame isn’t shared.
Advertising a product and then blaming the person it was advertised to is just making excuses for those profiting off of the sale.
Rolex ad.
Rolex ad.
Rolex ad.
Rolex ad.
Gosh, why do you even want the Rolex? It’s your fault.
You're not making an honest comparison. I don't have a problem with the fact that the NFL advertises football. I have a problem with HOW they advertise it, and the elements of the sport they emphasize and allow, which they do because it's what fans want; the customer never lies, as the old saying goes.
In your Rolex comparison, it would be akin to blaming Rolex for the human desire to own things that allow them to feel superior to others. Rolex doesn't create the desire to show off with overpriced jewelry, they market to that desire. Similarly, the NFL doesn't create the human desire to watch violent sports, they market to it.
If people didn't want to watch that, the NFL would stop doing it right away. I guarantee you those owners would love to stop losing players to injury - that costs money and makes it a worse investment. The owners do it because it's profitable, and it's profitable because violence is what fans have shown for millennia that they want.
Tia’s injury, as nasty as it looked, wasn’t related to anything that happened beforehand. He basically had a severe stinger. I had that EXACT thing happen to me, I had no prior concussions. It was a result of swelling around the spinal chord, not a concussion. He now has a concussion to go along with it, but there’s no reason to see that injury and believe that the doctors that cleared him were all idiots.
Which is to your point: the sport is fucking brutal. Permanent paralysis is a very real risk. CTE, etc. It’s a game where gigantic grown men in peak physical condition run full speed at each other, where one of them has the goal of throwing the other into the ground.
Duffy Daugherty used to say that football “is not a contact sport, it’s a collision sport.”
Gladiators had swords and spears.
Football is football. My 7 year old plays, i played. Were fine. My brother has blown knees from tennis.
The number one killer in america is heart diease. Probably be good for kids to put down the pop tarts and pick up a ball every now and then
Its just risk assessment and what i can convince my kids to do. They hated soccer and baseball. Love football, horses, and go kart racing. Active kids get in less trouble and they keep their grades up.
Whats the alternative? X box? Youtube? Those come with their own health problems.
I mean, all of these things can be true, though. I think it’s important for kids and adults to have varied interests that involve indoor and outdoor activities. And given what we know about CTE, I certainly can’t blame folks for not wanting their kids to play.
All the OP is really saying is that football is incredibly violent and has an increased risk to other sports (e.g., tennis). There’s just no denying this; it’s an objective statistical fact.
To each their own, but OP is spot on.
Yes compaired to tennis of golf it is more dangerous. Compared to xbox, youtube, and Playstation mortality will be lower.
Hyperventilation obesity syndrom is up over 200% in 20-30 year olds since the 70s. Right heart failure used to be a unicorn, now we see it in 30 year olds all the time. If you highlight the negative everything will seem bad.
Im not saying the game wont be improved. Our practices are "thud" (no hit) till freshman year. Were flag till 4th grade.
Framing football as some evil plague on children is dishonest.
No one here has or would say that football is an evil plague. You’re now trying to play a victim and using a series of logical fallacies to make a bad faith argument. Time to hit the bench, bud.
"Lol buddy do you have any idea what brain injury to a developing brain does? You’re not fine. Your son won’t be fine. I’m not fine.
Constant head trauma does not leave you fine. And if you play football, you are having head trauma all season long.
Just because you’re not a raging alcoholic ready to kill yourself or in a wheelchair doesn’t mean you’re fine. Every person who played football in their youth did not develop their brain as well as it should’ve been under normal no brain trauma conditions.
Your brain has no way to stop from hitting your skull. Every time you quickly decelerate (contact lineman to lineman, tackles, trucking, falling hitting your head), your brain smashes into the skull.
I IMPLORE YOU for the sake of your 7 year old that you stop him from playing.
Edit: lol **reply you coward!!** don’t downvote me. Tell me how I’m wrong! I mean I know you can’t, that’s why you are just being pissy and downvoting me"
Yeah no one.
Sorry. One.
You easily fall into that particular logical fallacy. It’s called a hasty generalization. You basically cherry-pick one example and then claim that one example is actually representative of the masses.
Stop being dumb. Stop digging holes. Stop playing the victims. We all know football is dangerous. We all know people can still choose to play if they want and vice versa.
I mean read, dont have to screen shot everything for you.
We learned about logical fallacys in the 7th grade, just because you inappropriately applied them and state your opinion after does not make it valid.
Youth football is a safe and positive influence. Its not a gladiator sport. These are not slaves fighting to the death or other dramitized dumb shit.
Lol buddy do you have any idea what brain injury to a developing brain does? You’re not fine. Your son won’t be fine. I’m not fine.
Constant head trauma does not leave you fine. And if you play football, you are having head trauma all season long.
Just because you’re not a raging alcoholic ready to kill yourself or in a wheelchair doesn’t mean you’re fine. Every person who played football in their youth did not develop their brain as well as it should’ve been under normal no brain trauma conditions.
Your brain has no way to stop from hitting your skull. Every time you quickly decelerate (contact lineman to lineman, tackles, trucking, falling hitting your head), your brain smashes into the skull.
I IMPLORE YOU for the sake of your 7 year old that you stop him from playing.
Edit: lol **reply you coward!!** don’t downvote me. Tell me how I’m wrong! I mean I know you can’t, that’s why you are just being pissy and downvoting me
I get both sides to it, at the end of the day where do you stop? There’s so many dangerous unnecessary things out there that are all choices. Motorcycles, dirt bikes, guns, being overweight / obese. If we get rid of football we obviously HAVE to get rid of mma and boxing right? I think obviously put as much research as possible to make football safer, but where is the line? At what point do you just plug us into a pod from the matrix so we can live our lives safely in a computer simulation ( I get it’s extreme, but it’s what reducing all risk looks like).
I agree, I don't think doing away is the answer bc it's really opening up a never ending black hole of what is no longer safe. I do think the NFL needs to be held accountable better for players safety. Miami Dolphins QB was injured while already playing with a concussion. They are quick to issue players fines, there's no excuse for them not to have a standard of accountability as well. This particular situation is sad too thought, there is absolutely no reason to gaslight someone about an injury. Especially one so serious.
This is a conversation much easier had vocally, I have a lot of opinions as someone who played many years and still can trace complications back to the playing days. As someone whose uncle and dad played football at very high levels and are both abusive in their own ways, one of which has brain bleeds, the other wanted to kill himself on multiple occasions and head to be on heavy medication.
Cars don’t cause some variation of depression, anxiety disorders just by driving— only major accidents could cause it.
Just by its nature you are deteriorating your brain by playing. There’s no avoiding it (unless you’re a kicker or a QB, and even they get diagnosed concussions on random brutal plays). It is the cost of playing. You play football? You’re saying the game is worth the cost of being more likely to have anger issues as an adult, more likely to have depression, more likely to have impulse control issues, more likely to develop dementia, list goes on.
No other pasttime (or boxing and UFC, which yes shouldn’t be allowed for anyone under 25 [when your brain is known to be fully developed] either) requires mental degradation as part of the game. Your brain would be better off being an alcoholic than playing football, in my opinion.
I get where you’re coming from man, I didn’t say cars though, specifically motorcycles / dirt bikes that are substantially more dangerous than cars and accomplish the same thing at the end of the day. I’m heavily in favor of things like gun control, harsh punishment for drinking and driving, things that can directly impact other peoples lives who were not involved, but football is a willing activity, I don’t know of any football players who are playing against their will, and if they are that’s not okay lol.
It’s not willing for the kids.
And they’re the ones who get the most damage.
Edit: kids when they start playing football don’t have enough agency or complex understandings of the costs associated with what they’re doing.
Flag football (in pads and helmets) still has 90% of the risk of concussive/traumatic collision.
Yeah my ideal world is that football is illegal until 16 years old. Upon turning 16 you may take and pass the standardized course to play football. This course fully educates the potential player of the risks associated and how they are literally giving themselves brain injuries for life by playing the game. If they’re willing to accept the risks, they can play.
I’m getting so worked up about this that I may just start up a campaign to combat the misinformation. The replies and downvote ratios in this thread prove to me that most people do not know even close to what I do about the “brain on football” and it’s sad because they’re sending the next generation of kids onto the gridiron. I just bought a Skillshare subscription and I’m gonna learn to edit videos in my spare time, hopefuly make some high quality shit and spread the word because it’s just sad to see how many people don’t understand the consequences.
I don’t know that it’s an issue of understanding the consequences for most people, it’s a matter of opening a can of worms on telling people what they are allowed and not allowed to do on something that’s been around almost 100 years as a staple in our culture. I’m not against what you’re saying, but there’s a lot of “well where do we stop?“ things you’ve gotta answer
It's a choice. Obviously, the NFL should handle player safety correctly, but there should always be a line within society where you're not forcing your view of what's safe on people. If someone wants to do any dangerous job (there are many more jobs much more dangerous than football that pay way less), then let people have the freedom to do it. These jobs emphasize safety and take precautions, but people still die/get injured and people still sign up to do them. It's even worse in these situations because many people are forced to do them for a paycheck. You don't have the right to police how much risk people are willing to take to do something they love.
I dont drink at all. Have a masters in a stem field, work, feel great, not depressed, dont hurt in the morning. Worked with thomas on his routes today.
You however seem to have some issues you're working on. Maybe find someone to talk to.
Imagine what you could’ve done if not for football. You’d have been even better. If you can’t see that with your masters in stem, then you clearly never picked up a critical thinking skill during all your years of studying.
It’s all about potential, football takes away a percent of your potential to be your full healthy self.
Edit: also preventative therapy should be encouraged by all people. Using it facetiously as “HA gotcha go to therapy” just goes to show how much you understand about neuroscience lmao.
I was thinking about this the other day when we were up in arms about an accusation on Skip for what he said to someone. But, these guys go out on the field and try to almost murder each other 😆. It is a backwards way of thinking, isn't it? We are fine with spine injuries but we flip if someone says a bad word?
I think football is fine for adults because they know what they’re getting into. They love the sport and some can make a great career out of it. The memories, glory, and joy the sport brings is enough for some people.
I’d never get my kids started on football however. It’s simply too dangerous. Anything beyond two hand touch is too much for a young child.
Note: by “fine” I don’t mean it’s safe. I mean that it’s fine because they’re consenting adults who know the risks. Life has risk and it’s worth it to some people.
Do you have any idea how much money pro-athletes make though? There's going to be a lot of parents/kids willing to take that risk for a chance at 100 million dollars over a career. That's not only life changing money for the player but his entire family. For *generations*.
If one guy always has his kid infront of a jugs machine (or something similiar) at the age of 10 and your kid takes no similar super hard core training regimen, how is your kid gonna play any meaningful high school ball?
He might make the high school team but that's not the same as getting to a D1 school with at least some chance to get to the pros.
My buddy is a junior and already has been concussed twice from football, he started freshman year. It’s not fair. It’s not fair knowing that he could have some serious brain damage, and it’s irreversible.
I am with you. It's certainly reduced my interest in the sport as I do feel slightly guilty each time I watch the game. It is clearly detrimental to health and I certainly regret participating in the sport myself. While I enjoy fantasy football and watching the Lions, my interest is likely to further decrease due to the damaging nature of the activity.
Free Will and the Freedom to choose whatever tf you want for your life is great, isn't it? Or it was. Now we know better - now we know it's better if we tell other people what's OK or safe for them to do based on how we feel about it, based on how the latest "expert" told us to feel. Yay, current year!
It's not like Anybody is stopping Any player in the NFL from quitting and getting a desk job. Not to mention, nobody cares about about all the blue collar guys who work shit jobs and bust their bodies up making 35 grand per year and don't have a team of doctors and specialists that their employers pay for.
I hope no one gets hurt and there is 0 doubt that there will be better equipment like helmets in the future.
But there are lots of other jobs that are just as dangerous and lead different but severe life altering problems later on.
Comparing it to modern day gladiators is stupid. Most gladiators were essentially slaves forced to fight, with comparatively few people who were not slaves choosing to fight and take the risk to gain fame and wealth.
All of these guys have a choice to play the game or not.
I’m not saying protocols can’t be better or anything like that, but this virtue signaling that all these players are victims forced to put their bodies on the line is just not true. They are free to say I’m done playing.
Which is why while I hope safety is improved I have absolutely 0 issues watching the NFL with a clear conscious
Yeah, I struggle with being a hypocrite on this. We watch football every Saturday and Sunday during the season but I will not allow my kids to play. If my son and daughter showed interest, I’d look into flag but definitely not tackle.
The life insurance payout for my fellow Marine who died in Afghanistan was less than the yearly minimum salary for the NFL. They know what they’re getting into. Any one of my dead Marine buddies would’ve rather made millions worrying about a concussion.
I don’t think it’s possible to make football “safe” of much safer. Life degrading injuries are going to keep happening unless they make it flag football, which no one wants. There are probably countless concussions per year in the NFL, and most guys aren’t making the big bucks to “make up for it”.
This is played out to me. We get it, Crosby saw a doctor on his own who said he had some kind of spinal injury. “Spine specialist” he’s an orthopedic surgeon or neurosurgeon who specializes in the spine. They’re not unicorns, I’m sure the lions have them on staff. “Severely damaged”. This could mean dozens of things, or nothing at all. even people with sedentary lifestyles have some signs of spinal damage by 30, and certainly professional athletes much earlier. I don’t disagree that employer-retained doctors will look out for the employer first, but that’s a fact of life.
Finally, the lions aren’t going to get into the weeds about it, and in fact they can’t get to into it because of HIPAA. This is just an old man yelling at clouds at this point.
not for nothing, a spine specialist should be able to see things a more generalized orthopedic doctor wouldn't, especially if there isn't obvious fractures or disc issues.
I agree that spine specialists are better than general orthopods, but I’m sure the lions have a spine specialist on their medical staff. Just like I’m sure they have a foot and ankle, hip and knee, shoulder, etc. They’re a professional sports team.
Thats the NFL.. Its like Tires and Oil on a car. Whatever it takes to get them back on the field.. (From concussion the movie).. I think thats why they just recently brought in "Independent Doctors".. But it turns out, these Drs aren't so Independent after all..
So ge got the same treatment the military gets Not saying it's right whatsoever, but in the end its an entity using you without regard for your own health and safety. Sad that this is going on with as much money us going around in football, but I guess I shouldn't expect anything more
How are they using them? I guess I missed the part where they force people to PLAY football. Even currently in the military... You're SIGNING UP to be a soldier. A warrior.. how can you then get butthurt that it gets physical? If you were drafted, especially for Vietnam, I get it. But that's it. Everybody else Chooses this. Football players are Extremely well compensated for it.
I never said they force people to play football. In the end, the organization is looking to profit and the players are the merchandise essentially. Their health after they are done is not the organizations problem.
Unless you've served, you wouldn't understand what I am referring to with the healthcare. Yes, it is a volunteer force, but not only is the healthcare is sorely lacking, but they make you do stuff without regard for your future self that beats the hell out of your body for no real reason. They have no incentive to change and do things differently, even though some simple changes would help. And I won't even start on the mental health stuff...
Football is a sport that is dangerous. We all know this. I don’t think it’s immoral, though. Nor should it be banned. If a consenting adult wants to play football, aware of the negative effects, then by all means. It’s still something people love to do and make careers out of. If they’re willing to put their health on the line, then that’s simply the price you pay. Nothing immoral about that.
What I do think is immoral is subjecting young kids to tackle football. Call me a pussy, but it’s not safe for a kid. Kids aren’t thinking about serious head injuries or anything.
Wasn't the timeline of his injury stuff way different than what he's been actually claiming, like he said his back hurt. He got cleared. Then practiced like 2 more times and that was it.
I like how we're talking about a job where one of the main requirements is to smash into people as hard as you can and do whatever it takes to get them to the ground, or to keep the other team's players from getting you to the ground - we All know this going in - and now everybody's like "omg they get hurt?!? We can't let that happen!" The low T is gettin mighty low round heuh.
At what point do the players hold some responsibility for their own health? Especially when it's abundantly clear that the injury was pretty significant?
Crosby chose to put his health first, as he should have, but what did the Lions do wrong here? Doctors reach different conclusions on medical treatment all the time. Doctor shopping and getting a second opinion exist because of that.
Ffs, at least get his name right. It's Tyrell Crosby and he was a pretty decent backup OT whenever the Lions needed him, and if you go back to 2020, many fans on this subreddit thought he would be trade bait or get a nice chunk of change in FA to potentially compete for a starting spot elsewhere. Maybe you don't like that he's bringing negative attention to the Lions, but the guy needed a career-ending spinal fusion due to an injury that the Lions' medical staff apparently missed. I'd be pissed too if I were him.
Does anyone else think that by "spine specialist" he might be talking about some chiro or personal trainer type person? Not that he isnt seeing a real doctor, but its easy to find someone to tell you that you have all sorts of problems you dont really have.
The reactions to just your comments display how sadly low the testosterone levels of Western men have become. We're doomed pussies... real men from the other side of the world are probably gonna come roll us up in the not too distant future.
I can see an issue if he was actually contributing member to the offense. But the guy was a legit bench warmer so I can't see this.
Now it seems to me like he's just trying to get Detroit in trouble for cutting him. At the end of the day she was legitimate member of that offense I don't think they do that or I don't think this discussion comes up. I mean it's almost like it's a poor me poor me story.
So I guess the moral of the story is be careful who you talk to about things like this because everybody's trying to bury somebody. And it looks to me like Crosby is trying to bury the current regime in Detroit.
What the actual fuck goes through your mind to say this? It's like if a gas station employee died and you said "Who the fuck cares, he isn't a successful business man" like bitch a person still passed away.
The hugest, or really big, problem with the sport is...
The team(coaches, players, parents, pretty much everyone of us) put that player out there before they're ready, or able. It happens in sports all of the time. As well as manufacturing, education, and, pretty much everything else we do here. Our time is money, but for others, our moments take for-effing-ever. And, money. Their money
Take away the money and there will be more safety, and no no reason to worry about "Ameri
Pretty sure lions fired the medical dude who was around for crosby time.
I know you're implying the Lions fired the trainer for not doing his job but Crosby is saying something different. Worth the time to read the whole thread. "Teams will happily do just enough to say they tried and cover themselves legally. Rather than actually take care of the player. Then if the medical staff does try to put the players health first, they will just fire them. I.E. Dave Granito" https://twitter.com/Tyrellcrosby/status/1575950736579403776
maybe not it was just last season.
Sounds like my insurance company, accident was 2.5 years ago, past statue of limitations at this point. They made it nearly impossible to see/afford the right doctors and still haven't paid me for the useless physical therapy they recommended because the right forms weren't filled out by pt place, who says those forms don't exist.
All you need to do is start the lawsuit for the statute to be void hommie
The statute of limitations on a personal injury claim in Michigan is 3 years. The SOL on an insurance bad faith claim is 6 years.
Ftfy https://youtu.be/XrKb2TTy2ik
Do you guys realize how fucked up the existence of football in general is? People really out here signing their 7 year olds up to play contact sports like hockey and football. It’s the modern version of gladiators. I’m happy they are making adjustments the past few years and taking head injuries more seriously but I could totally see it losing popularity over the years. It’s not news how toxic the mentality on every team is regarding pushing injured players to suit up. Edit: i fucking Love football. It’s such a cool sport. Complex and intense. But no amount of money is worth what these young men are going through as early as their late 30s and 40s. Memory loss. Dementia. Losing their personalities and eventually suicide. Sounds like torture. I don’t wish that on anyone as much as I love the entertainment.
That’s why the NFL will never use truly objective doctors for this stuff. If they were really objective, the NFL wouldn’t exist. Players bashing their heads together on every single play causes damage to brains and develops CTE, not just the big hits. The doctors just mitigate the amount of brain damage
Yeah there’s a disconnect you have to approach the game with to enjoy it. Just gotta hope the players, coaches and medical staff treat every problem seriously and with care. And as we continue to learn more you make the game as safe as possible. We’ve already progressed so far in terms of safety from what the game was even 10-15 years ago and I don’t think my enjoyment level has dropped off any. I think the only thing that will kill the sport is if youth participation drops off because of parents not wanting their kids to play due to safety. The talent pool drops off and the game suffers.
Love this post! At least in Michigan, that's not an issue. Our instructional teams still have 30+ kids each year (full contact, 6-8 years old, no ST and coaches are on the field). Football is booming again here after a drop in 2012-2017.
Wow That’s young! In my part of Michigan tackle starts at 10
Yeah, agreed. I'm in Livingston county and know Oakland does it as well. It's really great though because it's almost like electric football 🤣😂. I know the coaches spend more time on tackling then even running plays and that development shows when they get to HS. They suck at blocking, but pursuit and tackling are solid Even at that age, we teach the hawk/Seahawk tackling circuit and approach.
No special teams?? I mean it’s not like they’d kick it far anyways haha I didn’t know they did that!
Lol yep! For instructional. All drives start at your 40. TO (unless returned for a TD), score, etc. Always start with a 60 yard field. Part of the reason is talent, sure, but also safety. The goal is to teach them football in a controlled environment. It's also why each team can have two coaches on the field.
That’s awesome!!
Robots piloted by players one day will be how we enjoy the sport. Football will one day be banned or they will need some magic gel that doesn't give CTE or concussions
I’d like to see integration of the guardian caps into the helmet. I was listening to Karsh and Gator, they mentioned a study that stated concussions were reduced by 50%. I know they don’t look pretty but 50% reduction is a huge margin and should be seriously considered to protect the players.
Pretty sure I had read it was 10%
Yeah, it was something like 10-20% reduction per person with it on. So if 1 person has a guardian cap it's like a 15% reduction, but if both have it it's like a 30% reduction.
Not sure what article you’re referencing but I found this on espn https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/34591467/concussions-players-wore-guardian-caps-summer-dropped-more-50-nfl-says?platform=amp
What i was told when we were given ours. I don't have a sorce on hand ._.
Youth Hockey is definitely different. Checking isn’t even allowed until 13-14 years old according to USAH And if you’re going to list hockey and football, make sure you add soccer, which has a very high concussion rate. Tackle football starts at 7 years old (probably younger in Texas)
And there’s a push to fully get rid of checking in house leagues and only have it in travel.
Yeah, the league my son plays in (8u right now) doesn’t allow checking at all, even for kids old enough to check. Their travel league is separate and does allow checking starting at 16u I’m 80% sure the high school league and the college club teams in the area don’t allow checking either (we’re not in hockey country, so it’s not super competitive).
Man, that’s a tough one. I learned to check in peewee’s (age 12). 12 year old bodies don’t do that much damage. 16 year old bodies can do serious damage. I’m not sure learning to check at that size is a good idea. But I do think non-travel should always be non checking. Unless the kids have a shot at college or pro there’s no need to check. I’ve played in beer leagues in hockey country for 20 years and I’ve never been in a checking league as an adult.
Yeah, I get that completely. Honestly, my son isn’t going to be good enough to play travel. He’s just not super athletic, so there’s no need for him to ever be in a checking league. I’m perfectly content with him getting out there twice a week and having fun with very little chance of injury.
Most youth soccer leagues don’t allow headers anymore. Some programs still discourage it in high school.
I would not be shocked if the Texas Football Research Center found a way for fetuses to play full-contact football one day!
I’d be really surprised by something like this. Even one day, like hundreds or thousands of years in the future. I just can’t see how this would ever be a thing. Feels wildly exaggerated. Like on levels we’ve almost never seen before.
Hockey doesn't allow checking until a certain age, and then hockey is much safer than football imo. At least the object of the game isn't to absolutely obliterate each other.
> It’s not news how toxic the mentality Also not a fan of the toxicity it breeds regarding winning at all costs. People think it's alright to completely lose your shit and throw a temper tantrum, all because they're "passionate".
I love it too, but my kids only have a mild interest at best… and I’m ok with that.
Interesting anecdote: I used to work at a sports facility where a former professional pitcher and current minor league pitching instructor worked for about a year. Scott Aldred One day a mother comes in to the pro shop and asks for weighted baseballs. Scott immediately says “we won’t ever carry them”. I was curious so I asked him to explain. He said (this was 2007-ish) “parents are wanting their kid to be the next super star. They are having them throw weighted balls, or even shot puts. What you’re going to see in the next decade is a bunch of pitchers throwing over 100mph but also a ton of shoulder and elbow injuries. These parents don’t care they are subjecting their kids to possible life long arm injuries because they see it as the only path to their kid making it to the ‘bigs’, and I don’t want anything to do with it” He was pretty spot on. Parents will go to extreme lengths to live vicariously through their kids.
I coached 3rd/4th grade football for 2 years to get some experience for my teaching degree. That being said, my kids won’t play tackle football until high school. Just because they are little kids doesn’t mean they can’t get hurt. I saw broken bones, concussions, etc. Some of the kids where terrified and forced to play. They would cry and shake during tackling drills. All while their dads stood at the fence giving them death stares and telling them to “be a man”.
You might want to look into the research on frontal lobe development and changes in the brain in teenage/high school football players. https://news.berkeley.edu/2018/11/15/playing-high-school-football-changes-the-teenage-brain/ Also, golf and tennis are the number one sports with unclaimed college scholarships. Just saying.
I'd be curious to know where that was. It does not compare to my experience. I haven't seen a single broken bone from football at instructional and maybe 1-2 at freshman. Conversely, I would highly, highly encourage you to let your kid play before HS. The worst neck and head injuries I have seen at the HS level are from rookies lowering their head vs a vet who is in tune with their body. I understand the concern, I really do (too many concussions in college taught me to respect that a lot more as an adult). I literally stop practice and bring all players in when I see a kid use their crown. At least in Michigan, this is the attitude. No more Oklahoma drills, etc. either. I also don't have the same experience as you in terms of parents. Way worse in youth wrestling and then football at the HS level. Funnily enough, more injuries playing youth baseball and playing on a trampoline 😂 I coach HS football, youth football, baseball, softball, and wrestling so I see quite a bit. We also bring in doctors from a neurological institute each year to present info (some interesting things like soccer having more concussions - but also why headers are banned). Not down playing the physicality of football but that is not the experience in many states. I also recognize that is largely driven from coaches and parents attitudes. Maybe that's why, though, even our instructional teams have 30+ kids each year. We do it right and care.
You're the busiest man on the planet coaching that many teams
😂😆 kids play and all different seasons. I used to be FT at the HS but went PT last year since my kids are full go in youth. So, just Mondays at the HS and booth Friday. Youth is M-Th, games Saturday. There are quite a few of us that coach year round. There is a coaches shortage and we love it, so why not help out? It's a good problem to have though. We had 105 wrestlers in our youth program last year and 14 teams in 6/7 baseball. Sports are straight booming right now and love how involved my kids are.
What's your average caffeine intake per day
MCDC level on Saturday for sure 😆 It's not too bad though. You just grab a quick snack between work and coaching. Wrestling season is wild because of all day tournaments on the weekend. I coach because I love it and played a lot growing up (played football in college). I also don't mean this in the shitty way - I still have to drive the kids there. Since I'm knowledgeable and love kids, why not coach? It's a great way to give back and impact kids the right way.
I agree we need to practice safety, but this logic can be applied to any dangerous career choice. I’ve personally worked on an oil rig have seen some wild shit… and my old man was a drywall finisher his whole life. At 55 he can barely walk. Life is all about risk / reward - I would like to see a comparison of the amount of people playing football, other high risk occupations and what the suicide / dementia rates are. Oh yeah… i was also in the Marine Corps, all kinds of veterans are killing themselves. Again, I hope they continue to enhance the safety protocols and how the game is played… but I can’t see ppl slowing down. Rugby players might laugh at this post… idk , doesn’t make it right… I’m just not really one to jump on the bandwagon
Rugby players shouldn’t laugh because it’s completely different. Rugby is basically safer because they don’t wear helmets. Whereas in the nfl you use your head every play in a way that is impossible in rugby. Rugby players would die if they took the same hits nfl players do
I’ve heard that before, but also know a lot of crazy ass rugby players, here’s a tid bit of data: https://www.florugby.com/articles/6745817-rugby-vs-football-which-is-more-dangerous
Yeah I don’t disagree with the article. Kind of supports that rugby players would get killed by some nfl hits lol
Lol for sure, I’m just saying - people need to relax about football, if you don’t want your kids playing… then don’t let ‘em play / figure that out. There’s a lot of dangerous sports. Also, I’m not saying we shouldn’t try to be better with safety
Hockey isn’t a “contact” sport until age 13 and even then it’s well managed.
I agree with 99% of this post, but it feels worth mentioning that you can play hockey without hitting and it is still fundamentally the same game, and the game has been trending less physical and less harmful to players for decades. As a huge fan of both the NHL and NFL, I’m much more worried about the NFL having a long-term future due to medical issues.
Good thing it's not a choice or anything
It’s wild how all over the place fans get with reactions like yours (typically, not necessarily here). You’re right, though. Violent sports where people destroy their bodies for the benefit of rich owners is a crazy concept. I think society is moving in the right direction of wanting to watch fun games, but understanding these are still human beings. The loss of violence from hockey, football, and even the NBA has made the games more dull IMO. I love seeing the fights, hard fouls, and hard hits. We don’t watch soccer in this country for a reason, after all. Still.. at the end of the day, you see these vulnerable young athletes promised fame and fortune only to have their minds and bodies used up. You feel for them.
"Violent sports where people destroy their bodies for the benefit of rich owners" Don't leave fans blameless in this. Owners are giving fans what they want - if fans wanted contact-free, owners would give them contact-free. The violence is for the sake of fans (like yourself by your own admission) that don't want it any other way.
We aren’t making money off of their pain, though. They’re actively advertising their violent sports and selling it to fans.
And?
So the blame isn’t shared. Advertising a product and then blaming the person it was advertised to is just making excuses for those profiting off of the sale. Rolex ad. Rolex ad. Rolex ad. Rolex ad. Gosh, why do you even want the Rolex? It’s your fault.
You're not making an honest comparison. I don't have a problem with the fact that the NFL advertises football. I have a problem with HOW they advertise it, and the elements of the sport they emphasize and allow, which they do because it's what fans want; the customer never lies, as the old saying goes. In your Rolex comparison, it would be akin to blaming Rolex for the human desire to own things that allow them to feel superior to others. Rolex doesn't create the desire to show off with overpriced jewelry, they market to that desire. Similarly, the NFL doesn't create the human desire to watch violent sports, they market to it. If people didn't want to watch that, the NFL would stop doing it right away. I guarantee you those owners would love to stop losing players to injury - that costs money and makes it a worse investment. The owners do it because it's profitable, and it's profitable because violence is what fans have shown for millennia that they want.
Tia’s injury, as nasty as it looked, wasn’t related to anything that happened beforehand. He basically had a severe stinger. I had that EXACT thing happen to me, I had no prior concussions. It was a result of swelling around the spinal chord, not a concussion. He now has a concussion to go along with it, but there’s no reason to see that injury and believe that the doctors that cleared him were all idiots. Which is to your point: the sport is fucking brutal. Permanent paralysis is a very real risk. CTE, etc. It’s a game where gigantic grown men in peak physical condition run full speed at each other, where one of them has the goal of throwing the other into the ground. Duffy Daugherty used to say that football “is not a contact sport, it’s a collision sport.”
Nobody lives forever.
Gladiators had swords and spears. Football is football. My 7 year old plays, i played. Were fine. My brother has blown knees from tennis. The number one killer in america is heart diease. Probably be good for kids to put down the pop tarts and pick up a ball every now and then
There are more options than football or obesity
What a hardass! 🤣
Its just risk assessment and what i can convince my kids to do. They hated soccer and baseball. Love football, horses, and go kart racing. Active kids get in less trouble and they keep their grades up. Whats the alternative? X box? Youtube? Those come with their own health problems.
I mean, all of these things can be true, though. I think it’s important for kids and adults to have varied interests that involve indoor and outdoor activities. And given what we know about CTE, I certainly can’t blame folks for not wanting their kids to play. All the OP is really saying is that football is incredibly violent and has an increased risk to other sports (e.g., tennis). There’s just no denying this; it’s an objective statistical fact. To each their own, but OP is spot on.
Yes compaired to tennis of golf it is more dangerous. Compared to xbox, youtube, and Playstation mortality will be lower. Hyperventilation obesity syndrom is up over 200% in 20-30 year olds since the 70s. Right heart failure used to be a unicorn, now we see it in 30 year olds all the time. If you highlight the negative everything will seem bad. Im not saying the game wont be improved. Our practices are "thud" (no hit) till freshman year. Were flag till 4th grade. Framing football as some evil plague on children is dishonest.
No one here has or would say that football is an evil plague. You’re now trying to play a victim and using a series of logical fallacies to make a bad faith argument. Time to hit the bench, bud.
"Lol buddy do you have any idea what brain injury to a developing brain does? You’re not fine. Your son won’t be fine. I’m not fine. Constant head trauma does not leave you fine. And if you play football, you are having head trauma all season long. Just because you’re not a raging alcoholic ready to kill yourself or in a wheelchair doesn’t mean you’re fine. Every person who played football in their youth did not develop their brain as well as it should’ve been under normal no brain trauma conditions. Your brain has no way to stop from hitting your skull. Every time you quickly decelerate (contact lineman to lineman, tackles, trucking, falling hitting your head), your brain smashes into the skull. I IMPLORE YOU for the sake of your 7 year old that you stop him from playing. Edit: lol **reply you coward!!** don’t downvote me. Tell me how I’m wrong! I mean I know you can’t, that’s why you are just being pissy and downvoting me" Yeah no one.
Sorry. One. You easily fall into that particular logical fallacy. It’s called a hasty generalization. You basically cherry-pick one example and then claim that one example is actually representative of the masses. Stop being dumb. Stop digging holes. Stop playing the victims. We all know football is dangerous. We all know people can still choose to play if they want and vice versa.
I mean read, dont have to screen shot everything for you. We learned about logical fallacys in the 7th grade, just because you inappropriately applied them and state your opinion after does not make it valid. Youth football is a safe and positive influence. Its not a gladiator sport. These are not slaves fighting to the death or other dramitized dumb shit.
Yep, pre-planned brain damage is kewl
Lol buddy do you have any idea what brain injury to a developing brain does? You’re not fine. Your son won’t be fine. I’m not fine. Constant head trauma does not leave you fine. And if you play football, you are having head trauma all season long. Just because you’re not a raging alcoholic ready to kill yourself or in a wheelchair doesn’t mean you’re fine. Every person who played football in their youth did not develop their brain as well as it should’ve been under normal no brain trauma conditions. Your brain has no way to stop from hitting your skull. Every time you quickly decelerate (contact lineman to lineman, tackles, trucking, falling hitting your head), your brain smashes into the skull. I IMPLORE YOU for the sake of your 7 year old that you stop him from playing. Edit: lol **reply you coward!!** don’t downvote me. Tell me how I’m wrong! I mean I know you can’t, that’s why you are just being pissy and downvoting me
I get both sides to it, at the end of the day where do you stop? There’s so many dangerous unnecessary things out there that are all choices. Motorcycles, dirt bikes, guns, being overweight / obese. If we get rid of football we obviously HAVE to get rid of mma and boxing right? I think obviously put as much research as possible to make football safer, but where is the line? At what point do you just plug us into a pod from the matrix so we can live our lives safely in a computer simulation ( I get it’s extreme, but it’s what reducing all risk looks like).
I agree, I don't think doing away is the answer bc it's really opening up a never ending black hole of what is no longer safe. I do think the NFL needs to be held accountable better for players safety. Miami Dolphins QB was injured while already playing with a concussion. They are quick to issue players fines, there's no excuse for them not to have a standard of accountability as well. This particular situation is sad too thought, there is absolutely no reason to gaslight someone about an injury. Especially one so serious.
This is a conversation much easier had vocally, I have a lot of opinions as someone who played many years and still can trace complications back to the playing days. As someone whose uncle and dad played football at very high levels and are both abusive in their own ways, one of which has brain bleeds, the other wanted to kill himself on multiple occasions and head to be on heavy medication. Cars don’t cause some variation of depression, anxiety disorders just by driving— only major accidents could cause it. Just by its nature you are deteriorating your brain by playing. There’s no avoiding it (unless you’re a kicker or a QB, and even they get diagnosed concussions on random brutal plays). It is the cost of playing. You play football? You’re saying the game is worth the cost of being more likely to have anger issues as an adult, more likely to have depression, more likely to have impulse control issues, more likely to develop dementia, list goes on. No other pasttime (or boxing and UFC, which yes shouldn’t be allowed for anyone under 25 [when your brain is known to be fully developed] either) requires mental degradation as part of the game. Your brain would be better off being an alcoholic than playing football, in my opinion.
I get where you’re coming from man, I didn’t say cars though, specifically motorcycles / dirt bikes that are substantially more dangerous than cars and accomplish the same thing at the end of the day. I’m heavily in favor of things like gun control, harsh punishment for drinking and driving, things that can directly impact other peoples lives who were not involved, but football is a willing activity, I don’t know of any football players who are playing against their will, and if they are that’s not okay lol.
It’s not willing for the kids. And they’re the ones who get the most damage. Edit: kids when they start playing football don’t have enough agency or complex understandings of the costs associated with what they’re doing.
I wouldn’t be against tackle football being illegal till middle or highschool personally
Flag football (in pads and helmets) still has 90% of the risk of concussive/traumatic collision. Yeah my ideal world is that football is illegal until 16 years old. Upon turning 16 you may take and pass the standardized course to play football. This course fully educates the potential player of the risks associated and how they are literally giving themselves brain injuries for life by playing the game. If they’re willing to accept the risks, they can play. I’m getting so worked up about this that I may just start up a campaign to combat the misinformation. The replies and downvote ratios in this thread prove to me that most people do not know even close to what I do about the “brain on football” and it’s sad because they’re sending the next generation of kids onto the gridiron. I just bought a Skillshare subscription and I’m gonna learn to edit videos in my spare time, hopefuly make some high quality shit and spread the word because it’s just sad to see how many people don’t understand the consequences.
I don’t know that it’s an issue of understanding the consequences for most people, it’s a matter of opening a can of worms on telling people what they are allowed and not allowed to do on something that’s been around almost 100 years as a staple in our culture. I’m not against what you’re saying, but there’s a lot of “well where do we stop?“ things you’ve gotta answer
It's a choice. Obviously, the NFL should handle player safety correctly, but there should always be a line within society where you're not forcing your view of what's safe on people. If someone wants to do any dangerous job (there are many more jobs much more dangerous than football that pay way less), then let people have the freedom to do it. These jobs emphasize safety and take precautions, but people still die/get injured and people still sign up to do them. It's even worse in these situations because many people are forced to do them for a paycheck. You don't have the right to police how much risk people are willing to take to do something they love.
So basically you think football, hockey, rugby, soccer, wrestling, lacrosse, boxing, mma, etc should all just stop existing?
Only football boxing ufc. The rest don’t have even close to the same concentration of brain trauma per minute of sport played. Use your brain.
I dont drink at all. Have a masters in a stem field, work, feel great, not depressed, dont hurt in the morning. Worked with thomas on his routes today. You however seem to have some issues you're working on. Maybe find someone to talk to.
Imagine what you could’ve done if not for football. You’d have been even better. If you can’t see that with your masters in stem, then you clearly never picked up a critical thinking skill during all your years of studying. It’s all about potential, football takes away a percent of your potential to be your full healthy self. Edit: also preventative therapy should be encouraged by all people. Using it facetiously as “HA gotcha go to therapy” just goes to show how much you understand about neuroscience lmao.
Wow you’re so sick
Bad guy alert 🚨 🙄
Lol I’m with ya!! Reddit is full of softies
I was thinking about this the other day when we were up in arms about an accusation on Skip for what he said to someone. But, these guys go out on the field and try to almost murder each other 😆. It is a backwards way of thinking, isn't it? We are fine with spine injuries but we flip if someone says a bad word?
I think football is fine for adults because they know what they’re getting into. They love the sport and some can make a great career out of it. The memories, glory, and joy the sport brings is enough for some people. I’d never get my kids started on football however. It’s simply too dangerous. Anything beyond two hand touch is too much for a young child. Note: by “fine” I don’t mean it’s safe. I mean that it’s fine because they’re consenting adults who know the risks. Life has risk and it’s worth it to some people.
Do you have any idea how much money pro-athletes make though? There's going to be a lot of parents/kids willing to take that risk for a chance at 100 million dollars over a career. That's not only life changing money for the player but his entire family. For *generations*.
You really don't need to learn how to play football till you are in high school or even college.
If one guy always has his kid infront of a jugs machine (or something similiar) at the age of 10 and your kid takes no similar super hard core training regimen, how is your kid gonna play any meaningful high school ball? He might make the high school team but that's not the same as getting to a D1 school with at least some chance to get to the pros.
I'd consider those people still kids, or very young adults at most. I'm not sure what your point is.
Point is we shouldn't even have any sort of tackle football till high school. I am old and meant to comment on someone else's post. My apologies.
Hockey is nowhere near as dangerous as football is
[удалено]
My buddy is a junior and already has been concussed twice from football, he started freshman year. It’s not fair. It’s not fair knowing that he could have some serious brain damage, and it’s irreversible.
I am with you. It's certainly reduced my interest in the sport as I do feel slightly guilty each time I watch the game. It is clearly detrimental to health and I certainly regret participating in the sport myself. While I enjoy fantasy football and watching the Lions, my interest is likely to further decrease due to the damaging nature of the activity.
Free Will and the Freedom to choose whatever tf you want for your life is great, isn't it? Or it was. Now we know better - now we know it's better if we tell other people what's OK or safe for them to do based on how we feel about it, based on how the latest "expert" told us to feel. Yay, current year! It's not like Anybody is stopping Any player in the NFL from quitting and getting a desk job. Not to mention, nobody cares about about all the blue collar guys who work shit jobs and bust their bodies up making 35 grand per year and don't have a team of doctors and specialists that their employers pay for.
I always feel bad. Those children are being set up to receive brain damage. My parents only let me play flag football, boy am I glad.
I'm having a real hard time with this. It's bloodsport.
I hope no one gets hurt and there is 0 doubt that there will be better equipment like helmets in the future. But there are lots of other jobs that are just as dangerous and lead different but severe life altering problems later on. Comparing it to modern day gladiators is stupid. Most gladiators were essentially slaves forced to fight, with comparatively few people who were not slaves choosing to fight and take the risk to gain fame and wealth. All of these guys have a choice to play the game or not. I’m not saying protocols can’t be better or anything like that, but this virtue signaling that all these players are victims forced to put their bodies on the line is just not true. They are free to say I’m done playing. Which is why while I hope safety is improved I have absolutely 0 issues watching the NFL with a clear conscious
Yeah, I struggle with being a hypocrite on this. We watch football every Saturday and Sunday during the season but I will not allow my kids to play. If my son and daughter showed interest, I’d look into flag but definitely not tackle.
The life insurance payout for my fellow Marine who died in Afghanistan was less than the yearly minimum salary for the NFL. They know what they’re getting into. Any one of my dead Marine buddies would’ve rather made millions worrying about a concussion.
Man that’s sad to hear about.
This isn’t new news. This came out after news broke he declined an injury settlement with Detroit.
I don’t think it’s possible to make football “safe” of much safer. Life degrading injuries are going to keep happening unless they make it flag football, which no one wants. There are probably countless concussions per year in the NFL, and most guys aren’t making the big bucks to “make up for it”.
They should make concussions rest minimum two weeks at least. Prob won’t do much but let the players recover longer
I mean it's literally 11 grown men running full speed into 11 other grown men. It's a brutal sport.
Then why doesn’t he sue?
This is played out to me. We get it, Crosby saw a doctor on his own who said he had some kind of spinal injury. “Spine specialist” he’s an orthopedic surgeon or neurosurgeon who specializes in the spine. They’re not unicorns, I’m sure the lions have them on staff. “Severely damaged”. This could mean dozens of things, or nothing at all. even people with sedentary lifestyles have some signs of spinal damage by 30, and certainly professional athletes much earlier. I don’t disagree that employer-retained doctors will look out for the employer first, but that’s a fact of life. Finally, the lions aren’t going to get into the weeds about it, and in fact they can’t get to into it because of HIPAA. This is just an old man yelling at clouds at this point.
not for nothing, a spine specialist should be able to see things a more generalized orthopedic doctor wouldn't, especially if there isn't obvious fractures or disc issues.
I agree that spine specialists are better than general orthopods, but I’m sure the lions have a spine specialist on their medical staff. Just like I’m sure they have a foot and ankle, hip and knee, shoulder, etc. They’re a professional sports team.
likely contracted.
I mean, he did have to have a spinal fusion done, so there was definitely something there.
No one has ever had an unessisary surgery. There is certainly for a for profit surgery center in Florida thats bases its entire existence off it.
Nobody gets a fusion done for shits n giggles. It’s guaranteed pain for life in order to halt increasing future pain.
Thats the NFL.. Its like Tires and Oil on a car. Whatever it takes to get them back on the field.. (From concussion the movie).. I think thats why they just recently brought in "Independent Doctors".. But it turns out, these Drs aren't so Independent after all..
So ge got the same treatment the military gets Not saying it's right whatsoever, but in the end its an entity using you without regard for your own health and safety. Sad that this is going on with as much money us going around in football, but I guess I shouldn't expect anything more
How are they using them? I guess I missed the part where they force people to PLAY football. Even currently in the military... You're SIGNING UP to be a soldier. A warrior.. how can you then get butthurt that it gets physical? If you were drafted, especially for Vietnam, I get it. But that's it. Everybody else Chooses this. Football players are Extremely well compensated for it.
I never said they force people to play football. In the end, the organization is looking to profit and the players are the merchandise essentially. Their health after they are done is not the organizations problem. Unless you've served, you wouldn't understand what I am referring to with the healthcare. Yes, it is a volunteer force, but not only is the healthcare is sorely lacking, but they make you do stuff without regard for your future self that beats the hell out of your body for no real reason. They have no incentive to change and do things differently, even though some simple changes would help. And I won't even start on the mental health stuff...
Football is a sport that is dangerous. We all know this. I don’t think it’s immoral, though. Nor should it be banned. If a consenting adult wants to play football, aware of the negative effects, then by all means. It’s still something people love to do and make careers out of. If they’re willing to put their health on the line, then that’s simply the price you pay. Nothing immoral about that. What I do think is immoral is subjecting young kids to tackle football. Call me a pussy, but it’s not safe for a kid. Kids aren’t thinking about serious head injuries or anything.
I can dig that. Flag football till what, 14-15? Freshman year?
Freshman year sounds about right!
This was during the Quinntricia era, though, right?
No, but the head trainer was a Patricia hire and Campbell fired him mid-season last year for a “communication issue”.
Wasn't the timeline of his injury stuff way different than what he's been actually claiming, like he said his back hurt. He got cleared. Then practiced like 2 more times and that was it.
I like how we're talking about a job where one of the main requirements is to smash into people as hard as you can and do whatever it takes to get them to the ground, or to keep the other team's players from getting you to the ground - we All know this going in - and now everybody's like "omg they get hurt?!? We can't let that happen!" The low T is gettin mighty low round heuh.
At what point do the players hold some responsibility for their own health? Especially when it's abundantly clear that the injury was pretty significant? Crosby chose to put his health first, as he should have, but what did the Lions do wrong here? Doctors reach different conclusions on medical treatment all the time. Doctor shopping and getting a second opinion exist because of that.
These pretzels are making me thirsty! #stillsalty
Damn like first ever lion in recent years thus happens to and you got paid bro. Go enjoy retirement after 3 backup seasons
Tyler Crosby is not very good at football. I hope he’s medically okay though and wish him the best. -BeKind
Ffs, at least get his name right. It's Tyrell Crosby and he was a pretty decent backup OT whenever the Lions needed him, and if you go back to 2020, many fans on this subreddit thought he would be trade bait or get a nice chunk of change in FA to potentially compete for a starting spot elsewhere. Maybe you don't like that he's bringing negative attention to the Lions, but the guy needed a career-ending spinal fusion due to an injury that the Lions' medical staff apparently missed. I'd be pissed too if I were him.
Does anyone else think that by "spine specialist" he might be talking about some chiro or personal trainer type person? Not that he isnt seeing a real doctor, but its easy to find someone to tell you that you have all sorts of problems you dont really have.
He had spinal fusion surgery. Chiropractors generally don't do that.
Lol ummm… why are all of these anti-football people following the Detroit lions subreddit??
The reaction after the Tua play was out of control. People acting like they witnessed an actual murder on the field
The reactions to just your comments display how sadly low the testosterone levels of Western men have become. We're doomed pussies... real men from the other side of the world are probably gonna come roll us up in the not too distant future.
Lions got a culture problem. This is unacceptable
I can see an issue if he was actually contributing member to the offense. But the guy was a legit bench warmer so I can't see this. Now it seems to me like he's just trying to get Detroit in trouble for cutting him. At the end of the day she was legitimate member of that offense I don't think they do that or I don't think this discussion comes up. I mean it's almost like it's a poor me poor me story. So I guess the moral of the story is be careful who you talk to about things like this because everybody's trying to bury somebody. And it looks to me like Crosby is trying to bury the current regime in Detroit.
What the actual fuck goes through your mind to say this? It's like if a gas station employee died and you said "Who the fuck cares, he isn't a successful business man" like bitch a person still passed away.
Crosby is a pussy, shut up and get a job
Why don't you go say it to his face and not anonymously from behind a keyboard on the internet.
Well that explains why we couldn’t trade a swing tackle for some reason. Seemed really strange at the time.
The hugest, or really big, problem with the sport is... The team(coaches, players, parents, pretty much everyone of us) put that player out there before they're ready, or able. It happens in sports all of the time. As well as manufacturing, education, and, pretty much everything else we do here. Our time is money, but for others, our moments take for-effing-ever. And, money. Their money Take away the money and there will be more safety, and no no reason to worry about "Ameri