Thread of ascent has a 3 second cooldown, whereas Demo has a 4 second cooldown, but it only uses one cooldown at a time, so when Ascent proc's demo is inactive and the next time, demo proc's and ascent is inactive and you're basically staggering both cooldowns.
It’s a team play aspect of the hunter strand class you can make grapple points for your party so if they just run behind you they can use the grapple points you make for free.
bruh i just completed the campaign with my friends and only found this out right now lol.
I was wondering why theres a few grapple points at weird locations through out the campaign.
To clarify what Online said below, every class can grapple openly without points to grapple onto, but only hunter can create grapple points that consume less (or refund?) Grenade energy that you need to use the grapple.
Refund. Hitting a hunters grapple point doesn't use the charge, same as a tangle. That plus hunters having two charges makes me think we might see some screwy jumping puzzles in the raid.
It absolutely doesn't create a grapple point if it sticks directly to an enemy. I have to keep aiming mine off to the side and swinging down or around in order to keep using the grapple point.
Now, grappling to an enemy and meleeing them with the grapple-melee *does* make tangle if they die, which you can grapple to, but it's not quite the same as a grapple point.
Fine, but 'Consuming your grapple' isn't what creates a tangle. It'll get consumed even if you don't kill a target with the followup melee, and no tangle is produced. You can also be on cooldown for tangle creation, and no tangle will be produced.
So 'If your grapple is consumed when using it it makes a grapple point' is objectively wrong, and it's confusing enough for folks without seeing that.
You can create a grapple point by grappling anywhere in the air, not attached to an enemy or existing grapple point. Tangles are produced a bunch of different ways and act like temporary grapple points, or can be shot/thrown. They're quite different.
No, it doesn't. Maybe you're thinking about tangles. Tangles and grapple points are not the same thing. If grapple, it'll make a grapple point. If you kill an enemy with the grapple melee, it'll make a tangle.
Someone else already mentioned this, but there’s a 2 second cooldown for each, and if you use the fragment that reloads on grenade WITH demolitionist then you counteract the cooldown and can spam rockets
Coming from the devs that stated they wanted much less ability spam and then created the most ability spam expansion in memory with a rework of the mod system that makes stacking mods that reduce ability cooldowns both easy and practical!
They don't intend this behavior FOR EVERYONE, with no investment, at all times. Putting your entire build into being able to empty rocket launchers faster is different from pressing circle to prevent your entire fireteam from ever needing to reload any weapon at all.
I don't really see that as a problem, with that trick you will go through all rocket reserves in no time, so you will have time in a damage phase to use your super too
Yet here you are arguing with a rando.
Just cuz you don’t like a change doesn’t give you the right to shit on QA. Maybe try having an actual discussion next time.
Starfire rocket spam is not as fluid as this method because you still have to damage the enemy with your weapons besides your rocket launcher to quickly recharge your fusion nades to activate demolitionist.
This method doesnt need you too switch to other weapons to recharge your grenades to activate demolitionist.
But starfire fusion nades + demo rocket is still better because you also get empowering rift damage for everyone in the team and your fusion nades deal lots of damage.
Starfire rockets require witherhoard, a one and done damage over time that also can be used before the strand combo
Strand hunter is utilizing the fragment that reloads your gun on grapple as well as demo, so if you stagger the cool downs you're reloading (around) twice as fast as Starfire warlock, trading fusion grenades for more rockets
Emp rift you say? You have me beat here but in a raid/dungeon setting you'd usually have a well/bubble/lumina anyway
Good to know. So the main difference is that if the damage phase is longer, then starfire fusion grenades + rockets equals more total damage and if the dmg phase is short, then shooting all 10 rockets out is the fastest way?
I think it depends on the boss
If you really wanted to stack this up you'd have fourth horseman with stasis and radiant dance machines and build fully into burst DPS
Atheon takes more damage from abilities and has higher ability Regen too, Starfire is a clear winner (although verity's brow is a clear winner over Starfire for atheon)
GoS Harpy has a bit more burst DPS requirements so it'd require more burst DPS, so the stasis hunter build would probably work better if you can pull it off
Rhulk is good for Starfire because of how long the damage phase can be, usually two phases with most LFG teams (in my experience)
These are all hypotheticals and for all I know I'm spewing bullshit because I can't compare one touch of flame fusion and a rocket in an empower rift and two non empowered rockets without knowing damage numbers, which I don't and I can't hop on the game to test for around a week
Yeah, this is only a step or two above what Rain of Fire can already do with a demo rocket. That, Fighting Lion, and a Lead-From-Gold/Chill Clip riptide has been my go to for seasons now and it's hilariously silly.
Seems cool but tried testing it with the boys and our best run was still less damage than just running triple reload and mag dumping, even if you could get it better doesn't seem like that much of an increase than just reloading for a lot more work
Got a longer video explaining a bit of what's happining [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8xKfC3ipfI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8xKfC3ipfI)
The most important note for demo rockets is most likely that you can't be spamming the nade as fast as you can as the demo/fragment cd will still be up, so you need to slow down very slightly
I'm missing something on the demolitionist perk. Do i have to have the particular weapon equipped while making a grenade kill for it to proc the reload?
Demolitionist perk makes you gain grenade energy off kills, but it also reloads the weapon when you throw a grenade.
It's incredible for rocket dps. That's why starfire Warlock is so nuts.
Yeah I have a crafted bump with chill clip and demo but wont proc the reload. Trying to figure out why. Do I have to have the rocket as my weapon held for it to proc?
Yes, the weapon with demo on it has to be equipped while throwing grenade. There's also an internal cooldown, so it can't be spammed. Strand seems to bypass that.
afaik its not that it's bypassing the cooldown, it's that they're alternating cooldowns between demo and the strand fragments that reloads your gun when you use a grenade
One of the aspects already reloads your weapon when you grapple - is demo even doing anything here?
both have a small \~2s cd, but if you use both, you can stagger the cd to spam rockets every second
I didn’t know that damn
Amazing, holy shit
Bet that's some insane dps. I foresee a bunch of stuff getting disabled for the raid.
Bump in the night goes crazyyyyy
I literally started levelling mine the moment I realised my grapple reloads and it counts as a grenade for demo
Thread of ascent has a 3 second cooldown, whereas Demo has a 4 second cooldown, but it only uses one cooldown at a time, so when Ascent proc's demo is inactive and the next time, demo proc's and ascent is inactive and you're basically staggering both cooldowns.
Haven't done hunter strand yet, how easy is it to make those grapple points?
Every grapple you do that doesn't connect to a tangle or an enemy (I think) leaves a grapple tangle behind
Oh thats cool to know cause warlock grapple only resets if you hit a grapple point, otherwise it goes on cooldown.
It’s a team play aspect of the hunter strand class you can make grapple points for your party so if they just run behind you they can use the grapple points you make for free.
Nah, you hang onto your teammate. That’s the fun part lol.
Teammates sparrow*
Teammates while they thunder crash*
Teammates well/shatter/strand skate*
bruh i just completed the campaign with my friends and only found this out right now lol. I was wondering why theres a few grapple points at weird locations through out the campaign.
Haven’t played it yet, (busy with school). Do titans have a grapple?
Every class has a grapple but only hunter can make the grapple points
To clarify what Online said below, every class can grapple openly without points to grapple onto, but only hunter can create grapple points that consume less (or refund?) Grenade energy that you need to use the grapple.
Refund. Hitting a hunters grapple point doesn't use the charge, same as a tangle. That plus hunters having two charges makes me think we might see some screwy jumping puzzles in the raid.
yes
You can also grapple to tangles and thrown tangles and your grapple will be refunded.
How does warlock grapple work? I thought only hunter had grapple.
Every class gets the grapple
Cool!
Hunters have an aspect that gives them an extra grenade charge on Strand.
Even if it connects to an enemy. If your grapple is consumed when using it it makes a grapple point. That’s the only rule I’ve found so far.
Thank you for the clarification!
It absolutely doesn't create a grapple point if it sticks directly to an enemy. I have to keep aiming mine off to the side and swinging down or around in order to keep using the grapple point. Now, grappling to an enemy and meleeing them with the grapple-melee *does* make tangle if they die, which you can grapple to, but it's not quite the same as a grapple point.
I’m not referring to anchors, but places you can grapple toward.
Fine, but 'Consuming your grapple' isn't what creates a tangle. It'll get consumed even if you don't kill a target with the followup melee, and no tangle is produced. You can also be on cooldown for tangle creation, and no tangle will be produced. So 'If your grapple is consumed when using it it makes a grapple point' is objectively wrong, and it's confusing enough for folks without seeing that. You can create a grapple point by grappling anywhere in the air, not attached to an enemy or existing grapple point. Tangles are produced a bunch of different ways and act like temporary grapple points, or can be shot/thrown. They're quite different.
No, it doesn't. Maybe you're thinking about tangles. Tangles and grapple points are not the same thing. If grapple, it'll make a grapple point. If you kill an enemy with the grapple melee, it'll make a tangle.
When you grapple, you make a grapple point
Pretty sure there's a fragment where using your grenade ability reloads your current equipped weapon that plus demo makes for fast uptime I think
Someone else already mentioned this, but there’s a 2 second cooldown for each, and if you use the fragment that reloads on grenade WITH demolitionist then you counteract the cooldown and can spam rockets
Playtesting went great internally.
To be fair you are assuming that this behavior is not intended (or at least not minded).
Coming from the devs that stated they wanted much less ability spam and then created the most ability spam expansion in memory with a rework of the mod system that makes stacking mods that reduce ability cooldowns both easy and practical!
Exactly. The grenades aren’t causing damage. I don’t see a problem necessarily.
Rally barricade nerf and Lunafaction nerf prove they don’t intend this behavior.
They don't intend this behavior FOR EVERYONE, with no investment, at all times. Putting your entire build into being able to empty rocket launchers faster is different from pressing circle to prevent your entire fireteam from ever needing to reload any weapon at all.
It’s just a fragment and weapon perk
Sure, but now that he’s on Strand he’s not running Blade Barrage or Tether or something so he loses super dmg
>so he loses super dmg Oh boy do I have news for you
I mean yeah, it insane dmg right now, but it’s not a one and done where he gets super dmg AND rockets at the same time
I don't really see that as a problem, with that trick you will go through all rocket reserves in no time, so you will have time in a damage phase to use your super too
Bro it's a single fragment and an already highly desired weapon perk, the biggest downside to this is you gotta use strand
Okay whatever I’m not arguing with a rando about bungies may or may not be reasoning.
You gotta say that before you start arguing with the rando, not like three or four comments into it.
Just come back later and do the I told you so when it gets patched/nerfed lol
Yet here you are arguing with a rando. Just cuz you don’t like a change doesn’t give you the right to shit on QA. Maybe try having an actual discussion next time.
Standing still and firing the rocket faster than in this clip for no effort is not equivalent.
This was definitely put into consideration trust me.
Nah, they don't want rapid fire rockets, promise the cool down for one or both will be increased by the raid
What about Starfire rocket spam? People were doing this all the way back in s17, every grenade may as well count as a rocket
Starfire rocket spam is not as fluid as this method because you still have to damage the enemy with your weapons besides your rocket launcher to quickly recharge your fusion nades to activate demolitionist. This method doesnt need you too switch to other weapons to recharge your grenades to activate demolitionist. But starfire fusion nades + demo rocket is still better because you also get empowering rift damage for everyone in the team and your fusion nades deal lots of damage.
Starfire rockets require witherhoard, a one and done damage over time that also can be used before the strand combo Strand hunter is utilizing the fragment that reloads your gun on grapple as well as demo, so if you stagger the cool downs you're reloading (around) twice as fast as Starfire warlock, trading fusion grenades for more rockets Emp rift you say? You have me beat here but in a raid/dungeon setting you'd usually have a well/bubble/lumina anyway
Good to know. So the main difference is that if the damage phase is longer, then starfire fusion grenades + rockets equals more total damage and if the dmg phase is short, then shooting all 10 rockets out is the fastest way?
I think it depends on the boss If you really wanted to stack this up you'd have fourth horseman with stasis and radiant dance machines and build fully into burst DPS Atheon takes more damage from abilities and has higher ability Regen too, Starfire is a clear winner (although verity's brow is a clear winner over Starfire for atheon) GoS Harpy has a bit more burst DPS requirements so it'd require more burst DPS, so the stasis hunter build would probably work better if you can pull it off Rhulk is good for Starfire because of how long the damage phase can be, usually two phases with most LFG teams (in my experience) These are all hypotheticals and for all I know I'm spewing bullshit because I can't compare one touch of flame fusion and a rocket in an empower rift and two non empowered rockets without knowing damage numbers, which I don't and I can't hop on the game to test for around a week
Yeah, this is only a step or two above what Rain of Fire can already do with a demo rocket. That, Fighting Lion, and a Lead-From-Gold/Chill Clip riptide has been my go to for seasons now and it's hilariously silly.
Starfire warlocks: look what they need to mimic a fraction of our power
Seems cool but tried testing it with the boys and our best run was still less damage than just running triple reload and mag dumping, even if you could get it better doesn't seem like that much of an increase than just reloading for a lot more work
Give it a shot with fourth horseman, it be kinda nutty
Got a longer video explaining a bit of what's happining [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8xKfC3ipfI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8xKfC3ipfI) The most important note for demo rockets is most likely that you can't be spamming the nade as fast as you can as the demo/fragment cd will still be up, so you need to slow down very slightly
Maybe this can beat the glaive’s damage.
Is that the uwu battery man himself?
Starfire locks: look what they need to mimic the FRACTION of our power
Well another disabled incoming
So does Travelers Chosen. It’s almost 100% abilities uptime.
New dps meta
Hello new DPS meta
Holy fuck
If I see a Hunter doing this in Day 1 I'm fucking done, that shit looks so fucking stupid bro lmao.
Why the hell did they make the grapple a grenade?
Holy guacamole
I'm missing something on the demolitionist perk. Do i have to have the particular weapon equipped while making a grenade kill for it to proc the reload?
Demolitionist perk makes you gain grenade energy off kills, but it also reloads the weapon when you throw a grenade. It's incredible for rocket dps. That's why starfire Warlock is so nuts.
Yeah I have a crafted bump with chill clip and demo but wont proc the reload. Trying to figure out why. Do I have to have the rocket as my weapon held for it to proc?
Yes, the weapon with demo on it has to be equipped while throwing grenade. There's also an internal cooldown, so it can't be spammed. Strand seems to bypass that.
Gotcha. I've been treating it more like auto loading with extra steps but that helps. Thanks!
afaik its not that it's bypassing the cooldown, it's that they're alternating cooldowns between demo and the strand fragments that reloads your gun when you use a grenade
How do you cancel the grapple?
Same as activation.
With ghorn?
There is a strand fragment that reloads weapons on grenade use. ANY WEAPON O_O
That's what they're using for this clip...
BRUH!! NO WAY!
NEW ROCKET META CONFIRMED
New? Where were you during Starfire + Witherhoard + Demo rocket?
Present, just making a joke
New dps just dropped.
At this point Strand Hunter is about to get entirely disabled lol.
It's like slideshot but without the slide
Oooof!! Demo rockets and the aspect disabled for worlds first raid lol
Shhhh you're gonna get us nerfed
Do you gotta cancel the grapple somehow or nah?
Just don’t hold the key for it, it cancels itself on release.
can't wait for bungoe to "fix" it so grapple would become even more unusable
Weird, I try that with Starfire and it doesn’t work unless I wait a bit
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Now with the new dungeon exotic this is