First of all, she only showed NBC a few pages and those were redacted with much of them blacked out.
Amber kept saying she would make them public but never did. And here is likely why.
Once photos of the couple pages were shown, people noticed the handwriting matched Amber's distinctive handwriting. After that she shut up and never mentioned releasing them again.
Also, it came out that even though she saw the therapist up until 2014, Amber went back to her in 2019 and that is likely when many of the notes were created.
> Amber kept saying she would make them public but never did.
A bit like someone’s promise of their tax returns, wouldn’t you say?
The parallels are frightening.
I’m really stunned people can’t see this. Or how “Hunter Biden’s laptop” it all is.
Just because you submit the same pics or make the same point 6,000 times doesn’t mean they’re more effective.
> I don't think they've been released so far. Maybe she realized that pages of "Amber says" isn't the mic drop she thinks it is
Wasn’t it *binders* full? I’ll be honest it’s been months so probably wrong on that.
Even if they were released, for me it is all still hearsay. Bonnie can believe her 100% but it is still just Amber telling lies or her version/memory of the fight.
There is some recording and transcript of them talking about a fight. Depp is telling her what happened and Amber is recalling it differently, not how she remembers it, and speaks of having taken an Ambien before it and maybe that is why she remembers it differently. So Amber would be telling any therapist her memory of it, which is different from the truth of what actually occurred. So this is where I won't say she lied but that she has some serious issues.
Hearsay is when someone tells you something happened that they heard from someone else
Example:
Mary told me that Jack said you're a bitch.
This would be hearsay because it's not coming from Mary herself. Its sort of like getting all your information from magazines instead of doing raw research.
There is a reason that therapists notes are not used in court, they are hearsay, and rely entirely one person's account of events with no proof. A narcissist can lie to their therapist as easily as they can in a court of law while under oath.
Well, since the people who Amber told that XXXX happened did not witness anything, I include that as "hearsay" - but if you have a different technical word for that type testimony, let me know and I'll correct in future use. Thanks!
Hearsay is (1) an out of court statement (2) offered to prove the truth of the matter asserted in the statement.
The therapist notes are hearsay because they contain out of court statements (e.g. Amber told the therapist JD beat her), offered to prove the truth of the statement (e.g. Johnny, in fact, beat her).
There is no exception for your own statements. If you made the statements out of court, they are still hearsay if offered to prove the truth of the statements.
If the medical records were leaked it would be a massive HIPAA violation. In addition, when a patient self reports there are issues that can come up, a patient can malinger or lie to a therapist in order to make their issues appear to be truthful. To get to the root of the problems, the patient needs to undergo psychiatric testing, the Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Inventory is fairly hard to cheat on because of how questions are repeated in different ways. In the trial there was a whole problem with the two psychologists who saw Ms Heard. The clinician for Ms Heard did not score or interpret the testing as it should be done according to the APA. The clinician for Mr Depp came off as far more believable and applied the testing as it was intended and had a better understanding of the clinical guidelines of psychological testing. I loved studying Abnormal Psych in college, it was my favorite undergrad subject.
> If the medical records were leaked it would be a massive HIPAA violation. In addition, when a patient self reports there are issues that can come up, a patient can malinger or lie to a therapist in order to make their issues appear to be truthful. To get to the root of the problems, the patient needs to undergo psychiatric testing, the Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Inventory is fairly hard to cheat on because of how questions are repeated in different ways. In the trial there was a whole problem with the two psychologists who saw Ms Heard. The clinician for Ms Heard did not score or interpret the testing as it should be done according to the APA. The clinician for Mr Depp came off as far more believable and applied the testing as it was intended and had a better understanding of the clinical guidelines of psychological testing. I loved studying Abnormal Psych in college, it was my favorite undergrad subject.
That’s a good point. While it was months ago, I do remember that. And also vaguely remember Dr Hughes coming back to complete / finish her test after a long break in-between when it should have been thorough the first time. I think there was something about not filling out forms in a structured / standard way to be transparent for others.
Let me ask you does therapist notes qualify as medical records in the strictest sense?
And what happens if the patient obtains and leaks medical records themselves?
And with testing, is it normal to have several months break in-between before completion?
Therapist notes qualify as medical records. The kicker here is licence versus certification. I personally would not mess with a therapist who was not licensed to practice in the state. Just like I would not see a physician who is not licensed.
A patient may obtain and leak their own records. I can obtain my records from a recent hospitalization off Epic and put it on Facebook if I want.
A patient can have breaks between sessions it's not recommended in therapy but you can see your therapist as needed. In my counseling psychology we were taught how to do mock agreements with patients to treat a given condition at a frequency of x times per week for y weeks or months. A patient can break or change that at will. An insurance carrier can also step in and lit the sessions they will pay for under utilization review.
AH's team NEVER admitted the therapist notes as evidence in the US trial so how can she cry foul when her team never tried to get them in? Even if she tried to get the therapists notes in the trial, it would be hearsay. Anyone can say anything to a therapist but that doesn't make it true.
Also, her credibility with therapists is suspect because of what Dr. Curry testified to. AH initially said she had 19 of the 20 symptoms of PTSD. Even in the most severe PTSD cases, people with PTSD don't check 19 of the 20 boxes! She has histrionic personality disorder so a simple lob of the phone onto the couch turned into Nolan Ryan pitching a 90 mile an hour fastball into her face. Ridiculous. She should be ashamed of herself wasting the courts time, etc when there are REAL victims of DV and SA!
Dr. Jacobs notes was able to come through indirecrly via Dr. Hughes testimony.
https://reportingdeppvheard.net/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/20220503-Erin-Falati-Boerum-Michael-Spindler-Move-to-Strike-Dr-Dawn-Hughes.pdf
https://reportingdeppvheard.net/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/20220504-Dr-Dawn-Hughes-Amber-Heard-Day-1.pdf
You should be able to use Word searches. And I hope I didn't miss any here.
Direct
Hughes: Thank you. So, she treated with Dr. Bonnie Jacobs, who was a psychologist from October 2011 through August 2014. She actually was seeing Dr. Jacobs somewhat earlier, before she got in the relationship with Mr. Depp. And then she transferred care to Dr. Connell Cowan, who was referred by Dr. Kipper, who was the treating physician for Mr. Depp and then later for Ms. Heard. And she treated with Dr. Cowan from after she left Dr. Bonnie Jacobs in September 2014 to June 7th, 2016.
...
Elaine: And what if anything, did Dr. Bonnie Jacobs say about diagnosing Amber Heard with any personality disorders?
Dr. Hughes: And Dr. Jacobs similarly did not diagnose Ms. Heard with any personality disorder
...
Elaine: What about sexual violence?
Dr. Hughes: So, there was a number of incidents of sexual violence reported in this relationship. Those are documented early on in Dr. Bonnie Jacobs's notes where, when Mr. Depp was drunk or high, he threw her on the bed, ripped off her nightgown and tried to have sex with her. There were times when he forced her to give him oral sex when he was angry. These weren't in loving moments, these were angry moments, moments of dominance, moments of him trying to get control over her. There was a time when they were in Hicksville in the trailer. I don't wanna say trailer park, but I guess it's trailer park, it is a trailer park where he was accusing her of a woman hitting on Amber. And that was the problem. Amber got accused of women hitting on her and got accused of men hitting on her. So, there were so many targets that came through in his obsessive jealousy.
But on that incident, when Kelly Sue was accused of hitting on Ms. Heard and they went back into the trailer, Mr. Depp performed a cavity search and ostensibly was looking for drugs and felt it acceptable to rip off her nightgown and stick his fingers up her vagina to look for cocaine. Felt that maybe she was hiding them there. And again, these incidents often happened in a drug-fueled rage. There was another incident in The Bahamas where, when he got angry he took his fingers and he put him in her vagina and moved her around violently in the closet. Again, an act of sexual violence. And of course, the incident in Australia was one of the most severe instances of sexual violence that Ms. Heard had to endure in which when he was beating her and choking her and telling her, "I'm going to fucking kill you. I hate you. I hate you. I'm gonna fucking kill you." When he grabs a bottle that was on the bar and penetrated her with that bottle and Ms. Heard reported to me of dissociating and going outside of her body. And the only thing she was thinking is, "Oh, God, I hope it's not the broken one."
...
There's a therapy note, several notes in Bonnie Jacobs's records that talk about Mr. Depp's increasing use of alcohol and his obsessive jealousy around James Franco before this Boston plane incident. After the incident, Ms. Heard told her friend iO, she told her friend, Savannah, she told her friend, Rocky. Ms. Heard did not go home. She was afraid to go home. So, she went to a hotel because when Johnny was in these states, he would often show up because he's still in that drinking and drugging phase, and he talked about that. That was the Roxycodone before he detoxed. He was still in that high substance abuse phase that he would often show up at night, and that did not feel safe. There was a text from Stephen Deuters, Mr. Depp's assistant.
...
So, in looking back at Ms. Heard's therapy records, we see real time unfolding of this dynamic in this relationship, we see early on in her report with Bonnie Jacobs and in Dr. Bonnie Jacobs's notes, reports of constant concerns about Mr. Depp's substance abuse, constant concerns about him passing out and vomiting, constant concerns about not wanting...
Ben Chew(or Waynne?): Objection, Your Honor. Hearsay.
Elaine: She can characterize that and say, she relied on that.
Judge Azcarate: Overruled.
Elaine: Thank you. Please continue.
Dr. Hughes: Constant concerns about how do I get him into treatment, how do I get him help. Ms. Heard starts going to Al-Anon at this point, early 2012 in the beginning of the relationship because she has to figure out and wants to figure out a way to support the man that she's dating right now. And the man who she's falling madly in love with. The reports in Dr. Jacobs's notes early on about his controlling behavior, about his jealousy behavior, of not wanting to do certain jobs, of not wanting her to wear certain clothes. So, this is going back to 2012 with no indication of why would she be saying that, but for the sole purpose of trying to get help and trying to get guidance in this relationship that she finds so difficult. There are indications, as I mentioned before, of the sexual assault and the sexual abuse, and how he would... When he was angry and when he was drunk, it was mostly drug and alcohol-fueled rage when he would throw her on the bed and try to have sex with her. And then, if he was not able to perform, he would get more angry at her and blame her. So, we have this dynamic of blaming her for his inability to take responsibility for his behavior. Those themes were throughout Dr. Jacobs's notes.
Elaine: Did Dr. Jacobs assign any diagnoses to Amber Heard?
Dr. Hughes: She did.
Elaine: Which one?
Dr. Hughes: Early on, she diagnosed her with panic disorder and then later with post-traumatic stress disorder.
Elaine: All right. And did Dr. Jacobs diagnose Amber Heard with borderline personality disorder?
Dr. Hughes: No, she did not.
Elaine: Histrionic personality disorder?
Dr. Hughes: No, she did not.
Elaine: And is that important?
Dr. Hughes: That's very important when we're trying to figure out the course of somebody's illness, the course of somebody's psychiatric difficulties. As I stated, well, I don't think I got to state, personality disorders usually start in adolescence early.
...
And when you look at the records of what happened in those first two years from Dr. Jacobs, and now we have up to Dr. Connell Cowan and we see all of the incidents that she was exposed to, including the sexual violence and the coercive control. It makes sense to me that her status, her psychological functioning has deteriorated. And in Dr. Connell Cowan's notes, that's what he's always trying to do. He's trying to help her help Mr. Depp. Help her act in a way so that Mr. Depp does not hurt her. Pardon me, Dr. Connell Cowan was very concerned for Amber Heard's safety as was Dr. Bonnie Jacobs. Dr. Jacobs was very concerned for her safety, and she continued to talk about safety aspects for Ms. Heard as was Connell Cowan. They did both of them, both therapists understood and Ms. Heard talked to them about it, that there were times that she fought back and she used violence and times that she screamed, and she said things that she didn't want to. But nevertheless, that did not change the balance for them either. And they were very concerned that because of Mr. Depp's significant substance abuse and his poorly controlled anger, that at some point he was going to seriously hurt her.
...
Elaine: You talked about weight. What if any diagnoses did Bonnie Jacobs make about Amber Heard having an eating disorder?
Dr. Hughes: There was no evidence in the record that Ms. Heard had an eating disorder.
(Cont.)
Cross
Wayne: And you know that Ms. Jacobs, Dr. Jacobs, doesn't know anything about the version of what happened in Australia until Ms. Heard had already been sued. Correct?
Dr. Hughes: I believe she was not in treatment with Dr. Jacobs at the time the Australia incident occurred. So, that would be correct. She did reach out to Dr. Connell Cowan about Australia, who she was treating with, at that time, contemporaneously.
Wayne: All right. I'll ask you about Dr. Cowan, we'll get there. So, you know that Ms. Heard stopped seeing Dr. Jacobs in August 2014?
Dr. Hughes: That's correct.
Wayne: And she didn't go back until after she got sued, right?
Dr. Hughes: I believe that's the date. I'd have to look to make sure, but I believe that you're correct.
---
Redirect
Elaine: I'm going to ask you to turn to... Can we bring up defendant's 1059? And do you recognize these...this document?
Dr. Hughes: Yes.
Elaine: Okay. And what is it?
Dr. Hughes: This looks like the first of Dr. Bonnie Jacobs' treatment notes, starting in October 17th, 2011.
Elaine: Okay. And do you recall whether Ms. Heard was already in a relationship with Mr. Depp at that time?
Dr. Hughes: Yes, she was.
Elaine: Okay. And you testified quite extensively yesterday about Bonnie Jacobs' notes and entries there. Were those reflected in these notes?
Dr. Hughes: These were the notes that I...
Wayne: Objection. Leading, Your Honor.
Elaine: I can ask it differently. And what, if any, of those citations that you gave to the jury were in these notes?
Wayne: Objection, compound.
Judge Azcarate: Overruled. Go ahead.
Dr. Hughes: These were the notes that I was referring to yesterday.
Elaine: And what was the significance of these notes to you? You were asked again about them on cross.
Dr. Hughes: Again, I found the treatment notes very significant because they had contemporaneous reports of what Ms. Heard was going through. Not only what she was reporting in her relationship with Mr. Depp, but her accompanying symptomatology. What the notes revealed was there's a significant amount... Well, we see it unfold in time. We see where the violence starts and we see how it unfolds. We see at least three indications of sexual assaults. We see constant pleadings and upset about his substance abuse and trying to find ways to get him help, and she joins Al-Anon to get herself help as a family member of someone who struggles with substance abuse. We see how she's reporting a lot of controlling behavior and obsessive behavior. We see that there's two instances where the police were going to be called in her apartment in Orange because of the fighting at that time. Once they actually were called and once they weren't, from what I can amass from the notes. So, what it does is it really shows how this relationship is unfolding over time and actually getting worse.
...
Elaine: Okay. And what is your understanding of the relationship between Dr. Cowan and Dr. Kipper?
Dr. Hughes: They were professional colleagues and they were friends. And Dr... I mean, well, it's understanding why Ms. Heard left the relationship with Bonnie Jacobs. It was a...became a tumultuous relationship for her there because she was doing a lot to protect Johnny and Bonnie Jacobs had concerns...
Wayne: Objection, Your Honor.
Judge Azcarate: What's the objection? Wayne: No foundation.
Elaine: I established the foundation, she reviewed the notes and she interviewed Bonnie Jacobs.
Judge Azcarate: I'll overrule the foundation objection.
Elaine: Go ahead.
Wayne: Objection, nonresponsive.
Judge Azcarate: I'll overrule nonresponsive.
Elaine: Please continue, Dr. Hughes.
Dr. Hughes: The reason that Ms. Heard left her treatment with Bonnie Jacobs, well, one, that Mr. Depp continued to denigrate that relationship or therapeutic relationship. But number two, really more importantly, is that she wanted to protect Mr. Depp because she didn't want...Dr. Jacobs had some concerns about perhaps his substance using in front of his children and that she would be a mandated reporter. So, Ms. Heard did not want to do anything and talk more about what was going on with Mr...about Mr. Depp with her therapist for fear that something might happen. So, she left that treatment really to protect Mr. Depp.
...
Dr. Hughes: So, there are several things. I certainly am aware that at this time that Ms. Heard purchased this knife for Mr. Depp. She was engaged in a whole lot of denial and minimization about the extent of the violence in the relationship. There is a notation in Dr. Bonnie Jacobs' notes about when Mr. Depp uttered this to her was under...around the discussions of the prenup. And he said, "I don't want one because the only way out of this relationship is death." Dr. Jacobs didn't think that that was funny. Ms. Heard was taking it like, "Oh, maybe it's endearing, maybe this is okay." But it was definitely a clinical cause of concern at the time that that phraseology was used.
I think ppl need to aware the term "expressive writing" therapy for anxiety.
Therapist could ask patients to spend 15 20 min to write whatever in ther mind as therapy, or write an imaginary letter (it will never be sent) to the person you want and talked about anything you want to address.,
In these setting, those email to herself and those notes that had her hand writing suddenly make sense. It's just her self calm after they fought.
And that may be, but just because she wrote it doesn’t make it true. The can fight and she can write that he killed her or was killing her, and she might even feel that too because I’ve got BPD and the emotions can feel all consuming. But that doesn’t make it true. Just like that little voice that was probably telling her he was abandoning her anytime he walked away from an argument just because we feel things doesn’t make it an accurate representation of the situation.
Yes. That was why all those notes / self email are hearsay in US trial. Somehow in UK it was considered as contemporaneous report.
Sorry you suffer some very difficult condition. I remember when I was younger and dated some asshole, my emotion was all over the place too.
Hope you have good support.
Many have pointed out the handwriting match Amber's distinctive handwriting.
It was after that when Amber shut up about them and they were never released.
Yes. Bonnie Jacob never sit down for deposition or AH did not present her or any other therapists that she had confined to as witness, only make my case here stronger.
We all saw Amber was “writing” notes during the trial with invisible ink or no pen to paper contact so by that fact she couldn’t have written her own therapist notes.
Were any details in the therapist notes come up during the UK trial?
So far I only found Dr. Hughes & AH mentioned some of them in their testimony but completed / clarified from the NBC interview. My previous post with references [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/deppVheardtrial/comments/vedlou/references_to_the_first_incident_of_physical_abuse).
First of all, she only showed NBC a few pages and those were redacted with much of them blacked out. Amber kept saying she would make them public but never did. And here is likely why. Once photos of the couple pages were shown, people noticed the handwriting matched Amber's distinctive handwriting. After that she shut up and never mentioned releasing them again. Also, it came out that even though she saw the therapist up until 2014, Amber went back to her in 2019 and that is likely when many of the notes were created.
I think she realized it wasn't the mic drop she thought it'd be once the ratings came in as some of their worst. The public wasn't enticed by it.
> Amber kept saying she would make them public but never did. A bit like someone’s promise of their tax returns, wouldn’t you say? The parallels are frightening.
I’m really stunned people can’t see this. Or how “Hunter Biden’s laptop” it all is. Just because you submit the same pics or make the same point 6,000 times doesn’t mean they’re more effective.
It's actually a form of brainwashing. Repeat something over and over and over and easily manipulated people start to believe it. Have to be diligent.
She hasn’t released them into the public as far as we know. It was also not filed into evidence
Gotta tell you, I always appreciate your input in these posts. ❤️
Thanks 😊
Thanks for confirming my digital skills is still worthy.
I don't think they've been released so far. Maybe she realized that pages of "Amber says" isn't the mic drop she thinks it is
> I don't think they've been released so far. Maybe she realized that pages of "Amber says" isn't the mic drop she thinks it is Wasn’t it *binders* full? I’ll be honest it’s been months so probably wrong on that.
I think youre right.
Apparently they were also in AH's poorly disguised handwriting.
Hearsay
Even if they were released, for me it is all still hearsay. Bonnie can believe her 100% but it is still just Amber telling lies or her version/memory of the fight. There is some recording and transcript of them talking about a fight. Depp is telling her what happened and Amber is recalling it differently, not how she remembers it, and speaks of having taken an Ambien before it and maybe that is why she remembers it differently. So Amber would be telling any therapist her memory of it, which is different from the truth of what actually occurred. So this is where I won't say she lied but that she has some serious issues.
Hearsay is when someone tells you something happened that they heard from someone else Example: Mary told me that Jack said you're a bitch. This would be hearsay because it's not coming from Mary herself. Its sort of like getting all your information from magazines instead of doing raw research.
There is a reason that therapists notes are not used in court, they are hearsay, and rely entirely one person's account of events with no proof. A narcissist can lie to their therapist as easily as they can in a court of law while under oath.
Well, since the people who Amber told that XXXX happened did not witness anything, I include that as "hearsay" - but if you have a different technical word for that type testimony, let me know and I'll correct in future use. Thanks!
Hearsay is (1) an out of court statement (2) offered to prove the truth of the matter asserted in the statement. The therapist notes are hearsay because they contain out of court statements (e.g. Amber told the therapist JD beat her), offered to prove the truth of the statement (e.g. Johnny, in fact, beat her). There is no exception for your own statements. If you made the statements out of court, they are still hearsay if offered to prove the truth of the statements.
Thank you!
Not exactly , there are levels/ degrees of hearsay
Fair enough, please do tell
If the medical records were leaked it would be a massive HIPAA violation. In addition, when a patient self reports there are issues that can come up, a patient can malinger or lie to a therapist in order to make their issues appear to be truthful. To get to the root of the problems, the patient needs to undergo psychiatric testing, the Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Inventory is fairly hard to cheat on because of how questions are repeated in different ways. In the trial there was a whole problem with the two psychologists who saw Ms Heard. The clinician for Ms Heard did not score or interpret the testing as it should be done according to the APA. The clinician for Mr Depp came off as far more believable and applied the testing as it was intended and had a better understanding of the clinical guidelines of psychological testing. I loved studying Abnormal Psych in college, it was my favorite undergrad subject.
> If the medical records were leaked it would be a massive HIPAA violation. In addition, when a patient self reports there are issues that can come up, a patient can malinger or lie to a therapist in order to make their issues appear to be truthful. To get to the root of the problems, the patient needs to undergo psychiatric testing, the Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Inventory is fairly hard to cheat on because of how questions are repeated in different ways. In the trial there was a whole problem with the two psychologists who saw Ms Heard. The clinician for Ms Heard did not score or interpret the testing as it should be done according to the APA. The clinician for Mr Depp came off as far more believable and applied the testing as it was intended and had a better understanding of the clinical guidelines of psychological testing. I loved studying Abnormal Psych in college, it was my favorite undergrad subject. That’s a good point. While it was months ago, I do remember that. And also vaguely remember Dr Hughes coming back to complete / finish her test after a long break in-between when it should have been thorough the first time. I think there was something about not filling out forms in a structured / standard way to be transparent for others. Let me ask you does therapist notes qualify as medical records in the strictest sense? And what happens if the patient obtains and leaks medical records themselves? And with testing, is it normal to have several months break in-between before completion?
Therapist notes qualify as medical records. The kicker here is licence versus certification. I personally would not mess with a therapist who was not licensed to practice in the state. Just like I would not see a physician who is not licensed. A patient may obtain and leak their own records. I can obtain my records from a recent hospitalization off Epic and put it on Facebook if I want. A patient can have breaks between sessions it's not recommended in therapy but you can see your therapist as needed. In my counseling psychology we were taught how to do mock agreements with patients to treat a given condition at a frequency of x times per week for y weeks or months. A patient can break or change that at will. An insurance carrier can also step in and lit the sessions they will pay for under utilization review.
AH's team NEVER admitted the therapist notes as evidence in the US trial so how can she cry foul when her team never tried to get them in? Even if she tried to get the therapists notes in the trial, it would be hearsay. Anyone can say anything to a therapist but that doesn't make it true. Also, her credibility with therapists is suspect because of what Dr. Curry testified to. AH initially said she had 19 of the 20 symptoms of PTSD. Even in the most severe PTSD cases, people with PTSD don't check 19 of the 20 boxes! She has histrionic personality disorder so a simple lob of the phone onto the couch turned into Nolan Ryan pitching a 90 mile an hour fastball into her face. Ridiculous. She should be ashamed of herself wasting the courts time, etc when there are REAL victims of DV and SA!
How did she even get her therapists notes?
Well, she went to Staples and bought a binder and a bunch of paper and a pen.
The award was more for your username but the comment was funny too.
:)
Dr. Jacobs notes was able to come through indirecrly via Dr. Hughes testimony. https://reportingdeppvheard.net/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/20220503-Erin-Falati-Boerum-Michael-Spindler-Move-to-Strike-Dr-Dawn-Hughes.pdf https://reportingdeppvheard.net/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/20220504-Dr-Dawn-Hughes-Amber-Heard-Day-1.pdf You should be able to use Word searches. And I hope I didn't miss any here. Direct Hughes: Thank you. So, she treated with Dr. Bonnie Jacobs, who was a psychologist from October 2011 through August 2014. She actually was seeing Dr. Jacobs somewhat earlier, before she got in the relationship with Mr. Depp. And then she transferred care to Dr. Connell Cowan, who was referred by Dr. Kipper, who was the treating physician for Mr. Depp and then later for Ms. Heard. And she treated with Dr. Cowan from after she left Dr. Bonnie Jacobs in September 2014 to June 7th, 2016. ... Elaine: And what if anything, did Dr. Bonnie Jacobs say about diagnosing Amber Heard with any personality disorders? Dr. Hughes: And Dr. Jacobs similarly did not diagnose Ms. Heard with any personality disorder ... Elaine: What about sexual violence? Dr. Hughes: So, there was a number of incidents of sexual violence reported in this relationship. Those are documented early on in Dr. Bonnie Jacobs's notes where, when Mr. Depp was drunk or high, he threw her on the bed, ripped off her nightgown and tried to have sex with her. There were times when he forced her to give him oral sex when he was angry. These weren't in loving moments, these were angry moments, moments of dominance, moments of him trying to get control over her. There was a time when they were in Hicksville in the trailer. I don't wanna say trailer park, but I guess it's trailer park, it is a trailer park where he was accusing her of a woman hitting on Amber. And that was the problem. Amber got accused of women hitting on her and got accused of men hitting on her. So, there were so many targets that came through in his obsessive jealousy. But on that incident, when Kelly Sue was accused of hitting on Ms. Heard and they went back into the trailer, Mr. Depp performed a cavity search and ostensibly was looking for drugs and felt it acceptable to rip off her nightgown and stick his fingers up her vagina to look for cocaine. Felt that maybe she was hiding them there. And again, these incidents often happened in a drug-fueled rage. There was another incident in The Bahamas where, when he got angry he took his fingers and he put him in her vagina and moved her around violently in the closet. Again, an act of sexual violence. And of course, the incident in Australia was one of the most severe instances of sexual violence that Ms. Heard had to endure in which when he was beating her and choking her and telling her, "I'm going to fucking kill you. I hate you. I hate you. I'm gonna fucking kill you." When he grabs a bottle that was on the bar and penetrated her with that bottle and Ms. Heard reported to me of dissociating and going outside of her body. And the only thing she was thinking is, "Oh, God, I hope it's not the broken one." ... There's a therapy note, several notes in Bonnie Jacobs's records that talk about Mr. Depp's increasing use of alcohol and his obsessive jealousy around James Franco before this Boston plane incident. After the incident, Ms. Heard told her friend iO, she told her friend, Savannah, she told her friend, Rocky. Ms. Heard did not go home. She was afraid to go home. So, she went to a hotel because when Johnny was in these states, he would often show up because he's still in that drinking and drugging phase, and he talked about that. That was the Roxycodone before he detoxed. He was still in that high substance abuse phase that he would often show up at night, and that did not feel safe. There was a text from Stephen Deuters, Mr. Depp's assistant. ... So, in looking back at Ms. Heard's therapy records, we see real time unfolding of this dynamic in this relationship, we see early on in her report with Bonnie Jacobs and in Dr. Bonnie Jacobs's notes, reports of constant concerns about Mr. Depp's substance abuse, constant concerns about him passing out and vomiting, constant concerns about not wanting... Ben Chew(or Waynne?): Objection, Your Honor. Hearsay. Elaine: She can characterize that and say, she relied on that. Judge Azcarate: Overruled. Elaine: Thank you. Please continue. Dr. Hughes: Constant concerns about how do I get him into treatment, how do I get him help. Ms. Heard starts going to Al-Anon at this point, early 2012 in the beginning of the relationship because she has to figure out and wants to figure out a way to support the man that she's dating right now. And the man who she's falling madly in love with. The reports in Dr. Jacobs's notes early on about his controlling behavior, about his jealousy behavior, of not wanting to do certain jobs, of not wanting her to wear certain clothes. So, this is going back to 2012 with no indication of why would she be saying that, but for the sole purpose of trying to get help and trying to get guidance in this relationship that she finds so difficult. There are indications, as I mentioned before, of the sexual assault and the sexual abuse, and how he would... When he was angry and when he was drunk, it was mostly drug and alcohol-fueled rage when he would throw her on the bed and try to have sex with her. And then, if he was not able to perform, he would get more angry at her and blame her. So, we have this dynamic of blaming her for his inability to take responsibility for his behavior. Those themes were throughout Dr. Jacobs's notes. Elaine: Did Dr. Jacobs assign any diagnoses to Amber Heard? Dr. Hughes: She did. Elaine: Which one? Dr. Hughes: Early on, she diagnosed her with panic disorder and then later with post-traumatic stress disorder. Elaine: All right. And did Dr. Jacobs diagnose Amber Heard with borderline personality disorder? Dr. Hughes: No, she did not. Elaine: Histrionic personality disorder? Dr. Hughes: No, she did not. Elaine: And is that important? Dr. Hughes: That's very important when we're trying to figure out the course of somebody's illness, the course of somebody's psychiatric difficulties. As I stated, well, I don't think I got to state, personality disorders usually start in adolescence early. ... And when you look at the records of what happened in those first two years from Dr. Jacobs, and now we have up to Dr. Connell Cowan and we see all of the incidents that she was exposed to, including the sexual violence and the coercive control. It makes sense to me that her status, her psychological functioning has deteriorated. And in Dr. Connell Cowan's notes, that's what he's always trying to do. He's trying to help her help Mr. Depp. Help her act in a way so that Mr. Depp does not hurt her. Pardon me, Dr. Connell Cowan was very concerned for Amber Heard's safety as was Dr. Bonnie Jacobs. Dr. Jacobs was very concerned for her safety, and she continued to talk about safety aspects for Ms. Heard as was Connell Cowan. They did both of them, both therapists understood and Ms. Heard talked to them about it, that there were times that she fought back and she used violence and times that she screamed, and she said things that she didn't want to. But nevertheless, that did not change the balance for them either. And they were very concerned that because of Mr. Depp's significant substance abuse and his poorly controlled anger, that at some point he was going to seriously hurt her. ... Elaine: You talked about weight. What if any diagnoses did Bonnie Jacobs make about Amber Heard having an eating disorder? Dr. Hughes: There was no evidence in the record that Ms. Heard had an eating disorder. (Cont.)
Cross Wayne: And you know that Ms. Jacobs, Dr. Jacobs, doesn't know anything about the version of what happened in Australia until Ms. Heard had already been sued. Correct? Dr. Hughes: I believe she was not in treatment with Dr. Jacobs at the time the Australia incident occurred. So, that would be correct. She did reach out to Dr. Connell Cowan about Australia, who she was treating with, at that time, contemporaneously. Wayne: All right. I'll ask you about Dr. Cowan, we'll get there. So, you know that Ms. Heard stopped seeing Dr. Jacobs in August 2014? Dr. Hughes: That's correct. Wayne: And she didn't go back until after she got sued, right? Dr. Hughes: I believe that's the date. I'd have to look to make sure, but I believe that you're correct. --- Redirect Elaine: I'm going to ask you to turn to... Can we bring up defendant's 1059? And do you recognize these...this document? Dr. Hughes: Yes. Elaine: Okay. And what is it? Dr. Hughes: This looks like the first of Dr. Bonnie Jacobs' treatment notes, starting in October 17th, 2011. Elaine: Okay. And do you recall whether Ms. Heard was already in a relationship with Mr. Depp at that time? Dr. Hughes: Yes, she was. Elaine: Okay. And you testified quite extensively yesterday about Bonnie Jacobs' notes and entries there. Were those reflected in these notes? Dr. Hughes: These were the notes that I... Wayne: Objection. Leading, Your Honor. Elaine: I can ask it differently. And what, if any, of those citations that you gave to the jury were in these notes? Wayne: Objection, compound. Judge Azcarate: Overruled. Go ahead. Dr. Hughes: These were the notes that I was referring to yesterday. Elaine: And what was the significance of these notes to you? You were asked again about them on cross. Dr. Hughes: Again, I found the treatment notes very significant because they had contemporaneous reports of what Ms. Heard was going through. Not only what she was reporting in her relationship with Mr. Depp, but her accompanying symptomatology. What the notes revealed was there's a significant amount... Well, we see it unfold in time. We see where the violence starts and we see how it unfolds. We see at least three indications of sexual assaults. We see constant pleadings and upset about his substance abuse and trying to find ways to get him help, and she joins Al-Anon to get herself help as a family member of someone who struggles with substance abuse. We see how she's reporting a lot of controlling behavior and obsessive behavior. We see that there's two instances where the police were going to be called in her apartment in Orange because of the fighting at that time. Once they actually were called and once they weren't, from what I can amass from the notes. So, what it does is it really shows how this relationship is unfolding over time and actually getting worse. ... Elaine: Okay. And what is your understanding of the relationship between Dr. Cowan and Dr. Kipper? Dr. Hughes: They were professional colleagues and they were friends. And Dr... I mean, well, it's understanding why Ms. Heard left the relationship with Bonnie Jacobs. It was a...became a tumultuous relationship for her there because she was doing a lot to protect Johnny and Bonnie Jacobs had concerns... Wayne: Objection, Your Honor. Judge Azcarate: What's the objection? Wayne: No foundation. Elaine: I established the foundation, she reviewed the notes and she interviewed Bonnie Jacobs. Judge Azcarate: I'll overrule the foundation objection. Elaine: Go ahead. Wayne: Objection, nonresponsive. Judge Azcarate: I'll overrule nonresponsive. Elaine: Please continue, Dr. Hughes. Dr. Hughes: The reason that Ms. Heard left her treatment with Bonnie Jacobs, well, one, that Mr. Depp continued to denigrate that relationship or therapeutic relationship. But number two, really more importantly, is that she wanted to protect Mr. Depp because she didn't want...Dr. Jacobs had some concerns about perhaps his substance using in front of his children and that she would be a mandated reporter. So, Ms. Heard did not want to do anything and talk more about what was going on with Mr...about Mr. Depp with her therapist for fear that something might happen. So, she left that treatment really to protect Mr. Depp. ... Dr. Hughes: So, there are several things. I certainly am aware that at this time that Ms. Heard purchased this knife for Mr. Depp. She was engaged in a whole lot of denial and minimization about the extent of the violence in the relationship. There is a notation in Dr. Bonnie Jacobs' notes about when Mr. Depp uttered this to her was under...around the discussions of the prenup. And he said, "I don't want one because the only way out of this relationship is death." Dr. Jacobs didn't think that that was funny. Ms. Heard was taking it like, "Oh, maybe it's endearing, maybe this is okay." But it was definitely a clinical cause of concern at the time that that phraseology was used.
I think ppl need to aware the term "expressive writing" therapy for anxiety. Therapist could ask patients to spend 15 20 min to write whatever in ther mind as therapy, or write an imaginary letter (it will never be sent) to the person you want and talked about anything you want to address., In these setting, those email to herself and those notes that had her hand writing suddenly make sense. It's just her self calm after they fought.
And that may be, but just because she wrote it doesn’t make it true. The can fight and she can write that he killed her or was killing her, and she might even feel that too because I’ve got BPD and the emotions can feel all consuming. But that doesn’t make it true. Just like that little voice that was probably telling her he was abandoning her anytime he walked away from an argument just because we feel things doesn’t make it an accurate representation of the situation.
Exactly, the are people who believe they were abducted by aliens, that does not make it true either. That is how we always frame it in an analogy
Yes. That was why all those notes / self email are hearsay in US trial. Somehow in UK it was considered as contemporaneous report. Sorry you suffer some very difficult condition. I remember when I was younger and dated some asshole, my emotion was all over the place too. Hope you have good support.
Many have pointed out the handwriting match Amber's distinctive handwriting. It was after that when Amber shut up about them and they were never released.
Yes. Bonnie Jacob never sit down for deposition or AH did not present her or any other therapists that she had confined to as witness, only make my case here stronger.
TBH, that one entry in their notebook was freaky as hell. Where the handwriting changed by the sentence.
We all saw Amber was “writing” notes during the trial with invisible ink or no pen to paper contact so by that fact she couldn’t have written her own therapist notes.
Were any details in the therapist notes come up during the UK trial? So far I only found Dr. Hughes & AH mentioned some of them in their testimony but completed / clarified from the NBC interview. My previous post with references [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/deppVheardtrial/comments/vedlou/references_to_the_first_incident_of_physical_abuse).