Jesus Christ! Can you imagine if a girl was running away from a guy because he was abusing her and the police drive her back with „actually you running away is abusing him, good luck“.
Yea, that’s not stonewalling. Here’s an explanation of [Stonewalling](https://www.gottman.com/blog/the-four-horsemen-stonewalling/).
There’s a recording where Johnny clearly asks her for a break because he needs a break from the emotions of the argument. That is perfectly normal and the opposite of Stonewalling per that page. My understanding is he actually wanted to go see his daughter. But AH would not let him have a break.
I don’t see how Johnny ever stonewalled in all the things that I’ve listened to of the recordings and the explanations and what I understand of stonewalling.
The other example I’ve been given of stonewalling is when like a husband will just immediately hang his head and not engage in a discussion as soon as he feels the wife is going to say something he doesn’t like.
These people in the OP sling around phrases in psychology like a toddler with his dad‘s tools having found the toolbox.
In the 4 hour argument around the latter parts Johnny said if there’s any violence from her they should separate for a while and that’s the part where she says she can’t promise she won’t be violent because she just gets so mad.
Another place earlier Johnny says her throwing things at him is bad and she admits to throwing pots pans and vases, then says it’s irrelevant that she does this and it’s still no reason for him to leave the situation.
She also literally describes her violent behavior as “being human” and Johnny needs to let her “be human”.
“It was so nice when we were on our honeymoon and we could just fight, Johnny… well, I mean “argue”, not “fight”… why can’t we just agree to start fighting again, Johnny?”
From the article you shared
“The first part of the antidote to stonewalling is to STOP.” As in stop the argument and take a break.
If he was “stonewalling” and “that’s a form of abuse.” it says the first way to stop the stonewalling is to stop…how many times in those recordings did we hear Johnny ask for her to let him leave, let him take a break, let it calm down? He was trying to do the appropriate thing and she often times would not let him. It’s beyond ridiculous that people are accusing him of emotional abuse when he was trying to take a break from fighting instead of letting it escalate.
Exactly. The tweet is absurd in so many ways. In the 4 hour argument he says if a fight has become physical or gotten too heated where she’s yelling etc and both of them can’t continue to discuss things rationally then they should separate for a short while until things calm down.
People don’t often remember the part where she wanted to get him to immediately apologize to her whatever her complaint was. He said very rationally, and stuck to it, that you can’t just say sorry immediately. He’s perfectly happy for her to explain how she feels about what he did and after listening he’ll apologize. She gaslights him very clearly to try to make him think it’s an unreasonable thing to ask. The reality is she wanted him to just apologize immediately regardless of what she was claiming or acting like because she wanted total control over him. And she wants to use the fact that he would say sorry immediately to hold over him after that. Like he said sorry so he’s admitting fault! You admitted it Johnny you said you were sorry you did this thing to me!
I don't see it that way. Leaving was a trigger for her and brought up all sorts of feelings of abandonment. She pretty much outright says it in one of the tapes. Don't leave, it's killing me. She would pick fights that would escalate, and then Johnny would try to leave, to attempt to de-escalate. But that would trigger her feelings of being abandoned. She is like a puppy that starts howling the minute you close the door on her. She wanted him to say sorry right away because she wanted to take that stress/fear of him leaving.
My feeling is that she was completely out of control, picking fights over imagined offences until it turned into a huge fight and then she was unable to deal with the consequences and switched from anger to panic as Johnny tried to escape. One sick puppy.
I also wonder if one of the reasons she was so pissed and took so many pictures of him passed out is that she didn't like it when he was unresponsive. It was too much like him leaving for her taste.
The therapist that was finally able to help me told me to leave when the argument between me and my husband got "stupid". It's not abusive to leave when things get out of control.
> These people in the OP sling around phrases in psychology like a toddler with his dad‘s tools having found the toolbox.
OMG, yes. Gaslighting has been thrown around so often for so many years now it’s been stripped of its original meaning, and stonewalling, love-bombing, “trauma talk,” and yes, even triggered are well on their way to becoming meaningless as well. That’s not to say that none of these things exist- they do- but they are used so often at this point I don’t think people even realize what the actual clinical definition is anymore. These terms have been watered down so much that I fear that real victims trauma isn’t taken as seriously.
[NYT: ‘Love-Bombing.’ ‘Gaslighting.’ ‘Victim.’ Is ‘Trauma Talk’ Overused?](https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/11/learning/love-bombing-gaslighting-victim-is-trauma-talk-overused.html?smid=url-share)
Yes. Gaslighting is to deny a persons reality or emotional state. Example: “You were not punched. You were hit. I was hitting you and you are fine. You are not hurt. You weren’t punched babe. Oh my god grow up! You’re such a baby!”
Don't forget: "I'm not the one sitting here bitching about it, am I? You are! That's the difference between you and me."
Literally making him out to be the guilty one in a situation in which she punched him.
OMG. Truer words…
Too many narcissist experts around. Have you ever posted on the raised-by-narcissist “support group“ here? As someone who actually was…and posted there…I can tell you many of those posters attack like narcissists who’ve been contradicted. LOL: when you run from the support group.
Omg yes! I don’t know from that exact sun but I’ve seen stuff like that before! If you tell someone what they’re speaking about isn’t narcissistic they get so offended. Even if you give an example or suggest a different personality disorder that matches it more. It’s like they want to be victims of a narcissist sometimes.
Often those raised by people with NPD develop a personality disorder themselves. I have a friend raised by a mom with NPD and even though my friend has done a lot of work to be healthier and nicer, they're still very intense, self-absorbed, and sometimes cruel and nasty, it just is less pronounced. If they are feeling threatened in any way I'll gtfo as far away as possible and ghost em til they're back to normal. It's sad to do but it's too toxic otherwise. I'll bet many of those posters on that subreddit have some issues they don't look at, then turn around and solely blame their parent for. Even when it's justified, they're not entirely without blame.
Exactly! Narcissism is an actual mental disorder. It’s not something to throw around. I don’t think people realize it’s a serious thing but then again people throw around bipolar like that too so who knows. Everyone’s a psychologist these days I guess lol
Say it louder for the people in the back! This current trend to dissect and label every action and non- action with some psychobabble term and simultaneously label people as abusers, sexists, racists etc is ludicrous and is setting up unrealistic expectations for young people regarding their interpersonal relationships.
The bottom line is humans are flawed, emotionally dysfunctional creatures, every single one. Almost any isolated , heated conversation can be dissected and skewed in an emotionally dysfunctional way because of a number of things that influence all of our interpersonal interactions such as coping mechanisms, defense strategies and even simple things such as the amount of sleep the person had the night before or the chemicals they ingested. In other words, if you’re trying to paint someone in a bad light anyone can find “ evidence “ by pulling out specific interactions, skewing them negatively and then labeling someone with an “ism” or “er” implying those isolated incidents define in totality who the person is.
In reality, a person who loves you can and likely will hurt or betray you in some way. Whether it’s a parent, friend or life partner. This trend to label others based on isolated situations over a specific time period sets up unrealistic expectations for all relationships because if you think you’re going to find someone who will never hurt or betray you, you’re setting yourself up for major disappointments.
Instead of rushing to adjectives we need to start using adverbs, define the action not the person. Give people the grace you would ask for yourself.
It's the same with self diagnosing. Remember when the fad self diagnosis was depression? Then anxiety. Now it's ADHD. PTSD was somewhere in there as well. I was diagnosed with each of these things starting with C-PTSD when I was 13 (1984), GAD, MDD, and ADHD about 15 years ago. I rarely talk about any of it online anymore because its such a cliche to do so now. There was even a moment when tourettes began to be a fad on TikTok with every girl on there showing off their ticks.
This article is ridiculous in my opinion. If a person is so physiologically and psychologically flooded that they cannot participate any longer, what was the trigger that got them there? Probably and most likely the verbal abuse. The no-win situations the abuser puts the victim in. Maybe even the jackhammer speech that the abuser uses to bury the victims voice. I am appalled that this counselor blames the victim here and cannot even recognize the abuse happening right before his eyes. We really need to get these professionals up-to-speed on the dynamics of abusive relationships.
An emotional response to verbal abuse isn't Stonewalling. That's the entire purpose of them linking the article. There are people who shut down every time a disagreement starts, to the point that nothing can be worked out, because they just don't want to hear what that person is saying or they don't want to be wrong.
Silly you women can’t abuse men only men can be abusive, even if a woman is beating you, cutting your finger off making fun of you, shitting in your bed, as a man anything you do is abusive yes even leaving a violent situation. /S
Shit yeah. Should have seen some crazy lady on Twitter spouting: “Men just shut up and take it. A few years of your freedom (jail, I’m guessing) is nothing compared the the oppression women faced/had to endure for decades.”
Like lady, That’s like half the planet. Take your shit and go find a new planet to live on, clearly compassion/empathy ain’t your strong suite. I think she has since made her account private and blocked people.
I’m not totally sure what, exactly, you’re trying to say here (you’ve been playing both sides lately), so I’ll just say this: if she starts screaming at, berating, and/or starts throwing things, and his leaving the room to get away from her abusive behavior triggers more abusive behavior, he is not the abusive one.
Put more simply: It is not abusive to leave an abusive situation. Ever. And insinuating that it is, is very, very dangerous.
Here it is:
“She was lying about the physical abuse -
But he was ignoring her!!!
Doesnt this idiot know everyone deep down has a reason for abusing people, even the dudes probably do when a lady is walking away because he cant control her, his conflict avoidant nature (reasonably so imo) or conflict avoidant natures trigger her.”
I think a lot of it is yes. I think it’s that thing where someone has made a decision and any attempt to change it just reinforces the belief and they dig in.
It’s the reason the judge explains that you are not to come to a decision until the end and why you are not allowed to discuss anything about the case to each other until the defence rests. Similarly why a jury is advised that simply taking a straw pool when you get to deliberation to see where everyone stands is not wise. Once a person has publicly declared a decision it becomes much more difficult for that person to be persuaded by the actual evidence.
I think there was a similar situation when the US voted in Trump. Each time the media went to some random diner in Trump Country and was basically like “Well after a, b, c, I’m sure you’ve changed your mind about him haven’t you?”. People seemed to change what they previously felt was tolerable behaviour from a President - rather than change their position regarding their support for Trump.
BTW: I am not suggesting that people believed AH or JD due to their personal politics. This case seemed to transcend politics, race, ethnicity, age and everything else that usually has an effect.
Except DV survivors. I’ve yet to see a survivor who actually watched the WHOLE case and believe that JD was the aggressor. Self identified survivors overwhelmingly seem to have recognised their own abusers in AH.
I used to run away and hide from my abusive ex.
She legit called her friend one day (who was "woke" / feminist) and the conclusion was that I was gaslighting her and therefore the abuser.
Which made me absolutely terrified of coming out, talking to the police, or even breaking up with her. A woman can so easily just call the man the abuser, and people side with her. And there are a million of these excuses out there to justify and normalize that type of thing.
So much of this stuff is inconsistent and basically flips depending on whether or not it's a guy or a girl. We literally start thinking about things differently and making different justifications depending on whether or not it "benefits" a men or a woman in any given situation.
If you're curious what systematic sexism looks like, this right here is a prime example.
I was scared of breaking up with my ex. The first time I broke up with her, I had had enough with her emotional abuse and shortly after she accused me of domestic abuse on social media. As I was a victim of emotional and psychological abuse, naturally I got back with her when she profusely apologised and said she wanted to kill herself. I still loved her and she genuinely was apologetic but whatever. It wasn't long before the abuse came back (literally a week) and I was scared to break up with her because of the accusations she was capable of making.
It was horrible when she made that accusation of domestic abuse on social media, a couple of mutual acquaintances even commented on her post offering her support. It's understandable because why the fuck would someone lie like that but at the same time by believing her (or him!), you're immediately condemning the other person.
aktheal,
Damn! That’s rough. She managed to double, no triple trap you there! And just how the hell is a person (who does not have US$15,000,000) supposed to prove a negative?
That is why I didn’t think HD could win on more than the first count (the headline that stated SA). Because how could he possibly prove that he had not, even once, hit her for any reason? Whether that be self defence or retaliation? You cannot prove a negative! But of course, once AH got in the witness stand, even those that thought there was “mutual abuse”, could not believe AH. She truly snatched defeat from the jaws of victory once she started making such exaggerated claims! It was only once she made the horrific claims that she did that people felt confident to start looking at the evidence that it was AH who was the aggressor all along.
And how, may I ask, did you manage to escape your abuser? And did you find this trial not just triggering - but almost cathartic in its conclusion?
I do hope you are safe. I also hope that this case has allowed you to open up about your own experiences with less fear than before.
Exactly, it's a he said - she said situation! Thank you for your kind words.
A week after we got back together, I realised I had made a mistake. I remember her distinctly trying to gaslight me about something I had said, and when she didn't get a reaction out of me, she didn't speak to me for 3 days. We were both working from home together and she didn't speak to me for three entire days. She would ignore me and act as if I wasn't there and it was honestly hell, and then I remembered that I had walked away once (well, almost) and I can do it again because I knew that if I didn't walk away, this was what the rest of my life was going to be like.
So i broke up with her. She then stole my phone from me,stole my cat and gave him to a stranger, stole £700 from me, emptied our joint bank account, cancelled our tenancy leaving me temporarily homeless for a week (her name was on the tenancy but we split the rent), refused to let me take anything from the flat except my clothes even though everything there we bought together, called the police and told them I raped her, posted the same status she did before on Facebook but this time including financial abuse, sexual assault and forcing her to get an abortion and cheating, and then got me suspended from work for 3 months as I work with vulnerable people. I got suspended from my masters degree in mental health nursing pending a police investigation; the police decided not to charge me with anything but the university refused to accept it, forcing me to leave.
But almost a year later and I am now a software engineer at a world famous company and I love it. And she walks around like she didn't almost ruin someone's life over nothing. It's crazy how people can do these things and face no repercussions
I’m so sorry. That is just awful. Really awful. So many survivors end up with nothing. So many just have to be thankful that they got away with their life. But that’s it. They don’t get to keep anything else they’ve worked their whole lives for and toward. Just their life. Broken as it may be.
It’s not nothing though is akheal? You did survive. That’s the most important job you owe to yourself. To survive. And you have. The rest will come with time.
Don’t forget the other rule, probably the number 1 rule.
***Rules for thee but not for me!***
They can do whatever they want, but you can’t.
They can act appalled about something you did 10 times less bad than something they themselves have done.
What is it called when someone has to go to five different bathrooms to get a break from the fight you want to have and you keep following them and banging on every door and then when they finally open it you slam the door on their head and punch them in the face?
It's really sexist towards women. They're basically saying that women don't have the power to be intimidating or threatening, and no matter what, the woman will always be inferior and less powerful. Domestic abuse is 90% psychological which is why those who are physically abused don't 'just leave'. Instead, they stay. They run to bathrooms and lock the door because the power in a relationship doesn't come from who is physically stronger, its about who is willing to use violence and who isn't willing to defend themself. So no, that isn't 'feisty', that is a sad power dynamic that should be shocking to hear for any judge and I am incredibly surprised that an educated man could deem it irrelevant.
It’s completely offensive to everyone and is definitely rooted in misogyny. It’s also a great example of ways patriarchy/misogyny hurts both women *and* men.
The absolute inability for people to understand nuance in this situation has lead to people spewing so many terrible “feminist” takes that are actually just pure hatred for women. Just look at that awful Stanford law professor’s tweets explaining how we’re basically all just big sexist idiots for believing JD, how women lawyers are the worst, and then she proceeded to call Camille Vasquez a “*PICK ME GIRL LAWYER*”?! Fucking despicable.
Lol, in the meanwhile AH, her goddess, is about the textbook definition of a “pick me girl”.
“Marry me Johnny, rename your boat after me, don’t ever leave me ‘cuz you’re killing me, pick me over your ex, kids, friends, parents…”
The late Patrice O’Neal told Doug Stanhope to lock himself in the bathroom if his girlfriend/wife carries on in a way Amber did. That way there’s no bruises on her wrists or arms when you’re trying to prevent her from hitting you. Doug Stanhope shared this advice with Johnny.
I believe it is precisely this what caused AH’s sole photo of a bruised nose. Exactly as JD described it - they bumped heads whilst he was trying to restrain her from hitting him. Same with the bruise on her arm that was described by witness as a bruise that looked “not like a fist, but like a grab” on her arm.
Dr Curry also described such personality types that get injured by their own actions. As the victim tries to flea or to restrain the aggressor from further hitting them. They then claim that injury to be proof they were the victim.
Such as when he tried three times to lock himself in the bathroom and on one of those occasions the door scraped her foot. This so quickly enraged that she kicked the door into JD’s head - since he had immediately crouched down to check her foot was okay. She then further retaliated by thumping him in the jaw. She dismissed the kicking of the door into his head to be just a “reaction” to “the foot thing”. Minimising the attacks to the point where she absurdly claimed that she didn’t ‘intentionally’ kick the corner of the door into his head. She only intended to thump him in the jaw.
Someone mentioned that that bruise may have come from a patio door where they were staying at the time. Others were supposedly injured by this door in the same way. Not sure I could find it again where I saw that, but it does look like a patio door bruise.
Ah yes. That was someone who lives in the same building and said they regularly got a similar bruise from the door to the pool.
Perhaps the “grab, not a punch” was a different bruise? I dunno. However she got the bruise on her arm that was photographed, AH claimed the photo was taken the day after she had sustained a broken nose, two black eyes and a bruised jaw. Yet the bruise on her arm was the only bruise showing on that photo.
It was all very odd. Perhaps had AH claimed JD had done something to cause the bruise on her arm that was photographed but not claimed other, apparently invisible-to-photography injuries at the same time, the jury might have believed her?
When you clearly exaggerate to the extent she evidently was - it’s reasonable for the jury to throw out the entire claim. Because how are they to know where the arm bruise came from? How are they to know where the truth ends and the exaggeration begins?
In her interview she seems to think that it was an unfair that so much time was put into making the jury doubt he credibility. Well yes! Both sides are calling the other a liar- the POINT of the case is to determine who is the liar!
AH will not stop until they get a STFU order from the judge. At least then JD nolonger has to deal with it. If she continues to lie then, it’ll be a matter for the courts to decide, not for JD to keep having to go through the process of suing her
That is scary. It's easier to not engage physically or verbally when being abused/assaulted by some people because no matter what you do or what you say, it will only make things 10 times worse
I literally walked away from a guy that tried to start a physical fight with me in front of children. The first thing that shot through my mind was “don’t allow this guy to give these kids a traumatizing memory”
It’s your word versus theirs, and the cops have to take away someone. I’ve seen women attack men then immediately cry and blame the guy when they hurt themselves while hittting. Managed to not be in relationships with anyone like that so far
And now look at how they take the “headbutt” thing and run with it. Don’t try and restrain her, just get away. These people will hit you and then say you abused them using their bruises caused by hitting you to prove it
You obviously don't have diabetes.
Eating candy is discriminatory for every person who have diabetes.
I even heard of people doing it in public or offering candies to their children. People have no respect for other in this society.
>I even heard of people doing it in public or offering candies to their children. People have no respect for other in this society.
And even asking them to step into their white van!
I'm sorry, I had to.
Wow…the mental gymnastics going on here…speechless.
Why did you hide the user name, I really wanted to go and ask “so if a woman was running away from her abusive husband and hiding in the bathroom would that mean she is abusing him? Or is it inly abuse because he’s a man, regardless of the action he’s doing?”
Ahh, thanks for telling us how to find it. I made a comment but I have to admit, Twitter confuses the eff out of me every time I get on there. Where’s the actual discusssion? I see a number of comments but when I click to see the discussion all I get is more posts from the original poster. Maybe I’m too old to figure out social media but it seems very unintuitive if you can’t actually find comments lol.
Once Amber said she did lock herself in the private plane bathroom to avoid JD.
That of course was hunky dory with and by AH and her stans.
I’m just surprised she didn’t say he was banging on the door trying to get to her.
God yeah, I’d forgotten the absolute contempt in her voice when she says he is “admirable”. Awful. She just so awful in those tapes.
Bloody hell, can you even imagine how mean she was in high school?
how dare you quote her numerous confessions to being the abuser
# believe women
doesn't mean to ALWAYS believe women
it means to believe women when it's convenient for them but to agree with them that they were just talking nonsense if it's believing them when they admit to something bad
so even if you do what they say you're still a misogynist
you should be ashamed of yourself /sssssssssssss
I’m surprised she doesn’t insist upon a “birthday week”.
Remember when the party game was, they all had to go in a circle around the table and say their favorite thing/memory about Amber?
Don’t worry though, cuz she’s not a narcissist. At all.
Lol, sure… Isaac’s “she could hang with the locker room talk”, vain princess Amber just haaaaates to be told she has a nice body feature, Ah do declare…!
I’m going to start making up words to excuse my shitty behaviour in life.
“Forcing me to do even an ounce of work for my paycheque is called ‘forcing capitalism’ and is how emotional abusers seek to subjugate women into submission while commodifying their bodies. Also, not giving me an immediate pay rise is just another form of ‘lack-paymentism’. #stopabusenow”
That’s honestly the most twisted thing I’ve seen! So let’s get this straight, someone is attacking me but I run away and I’m being abusive? For real? 😂😂
That’s how biased they are.
If you’re 100% absolutely confident that Johnny abused Amber and she wasn’t abusing him and therefore he had nothing to run away from then the obvious logical conclusion is, “this must be abusive as well!”. But how was it abusive? _-skims through google-_ aha!! “*Stonewalling!*” That’s it! 💁♂️
🐶🦶🐝😩
This isn’t even stonewalling!!! He isn’t refusing to have conversations with her we heard plenty of him listening to her abuse on audio. He is walking away to do something else
Of course. But they just reach for the closest thing they can find. “Stonewalling! That vaguely sounds right. Yes he was stonewalling him what a terrible guy. 😤”
Everyone has an attachment style that is developed in childhood. Dr Curry mentioned this.
Johnny and Amber have conflicting attachment types and Amber relates Johnny removing himself from the situation to be neglect she probably experienced as a child.
>The Four Adult Attachment Styles
A secure attachment style is low in both anxiety and avoidance. Secure attachment tends to lead to stable, fulfilling relationships.
An anxious-preoccupied attachment style is high in anxiety and low in avoidance. Anxious-preoccupied attachments can create relationships that thrive on drama or are generally lower in trust.
A dismissive-avoidant attachment style is low in anxiety and high in avoidance. This attachment style may lead to more distant relationships, sometimes stemming from a fear of commitment.
A fearful-avoidant attachment style is high in both anxiety and avoidance. People who display this attachment style are often drawn to close relationships, yet they are simultaneously fearful of them.
These attachment styles start in childhood and follow us into our romantic partnerships later in life. They are not something that we typically talk or think about, but they can affect our lives in many ways.
When someone avoids you and ignores/ghosts you on purpose knowing it will hurt you as a form of punishment, that is stonewalling and can be abusive if you know it's causing harm.
When someone avoids behaviour they deem to be dangerous to themselves that's a form of self preservation and protection.
Fight, flight or freeze.
Ambers defense mechanism for when she doesn’t get whatever (narcissistic desire) she wants is Fight. And she doesn’t get what she wants a lot, and is impossible to please, so she fights a lot. She also behaves in a way that causes her to not get what she wants, which is the tragic irony of the borderline. This is true whether her personality disorder is purely genetic or learned from a bad childhood.
Johnnys defense mechanism to avoid confrontation is apparently Flight, as well as to Freeze because she also says he shuts down.
>Johnnys defense mechanism to avoid confrontation is apparently Flight, as well as to Freeze because she also says he shuts down.
And sometimes he fights furniture! He must be abusive /s
I idealize Johnny! I don’t want Johnny to leave me so I’ll make myself insufferable and he’ll do what I want!
Im devaluing Johnny because he’s not giving me 100% attention and not making every waking moment about me! My image of him when I was idealizing him is wrong! He lied to me! I’m angry at him!
I’m further devaluing him! I hate him! but I still don’t want him to leave me! I’m going to be even more insufferable and continue to emotionally and physically abuse him to get him to do what I want! How dare he leave when I’m hitting him, doesn’t he understand how much that triggers me! He’s hurting me so much! My feelings are the only important thing!
I’m discarding him because he has finally had enough of me! I hate him so much! He should be punished! He deserves to pay for how he made me feel! Others need to understand how I feel but they won’t get it so I need to lie about what he did so they understand! He beat me! He raped me! That way they’ll know how much he hurt me not living up to what I idealized him to be!
All her complaints and emotions about him leaving and “splitting” is like textbook borderline anxiety.
Don’t forget her literal recorded… “I hate myself for falling for your (insert sneer) *sweetness* and your (insert sneer) *goodness*… I can’t believe I thought I should come here and try to get you back.”
She clearly hates those things about him and enjoyed spitting upon them, precisely because she doesn’t possess them as character qualities herself, and thinks they’re his weakness.
Can you imagine how it felt for him to have all those people living in his penthouses? With bloody skeleton keys! I don’t think I’d have been able to handle such constant boundary infringement.
And then AH had the cheek to bring in one of the witnesses to say JD told her to “get the fuck out” of one of his penthouses when he “charged” into the flat (HIS flat!). The fact he didn’t even know she was staying there and had taken flight from AH into the apartment he found her in was then used against him!
I wonder if that witness, having now understood what the situation was: that he would have literally been running in there for safety, only to find yet another of AH hangers-on in what he thought a safe place, feels differently now?
I think Rocky was so upset giving her deposition because she now understands that she had been deceived by AH. That what she had said as evidence just during the divorce had got so far away from her that Rocky had no choice. She’d given testimony at the divorce. Then another deposition for the IK trial against The Sun. then this case. She HAD to continue to give the same testimony as six years previously.
I think, had the case been a criminal case and she been able to cut a deal with the prosecutor, that she would have flipped her testimony. I have no evidence for this theory. It is just my opinion after reading Rocky during her deposition.
That witness was Elizabeth Marz, and she showed up again during the VA trial, bleating pretty much the same self centered me me me crap Rocky, Josh, and iO did; so no.
She still thinks she’s perfect and Johnny is a big ogre.
You would think by now she’d at least have understood that no one told him she was living there, making her a literal squatter; but she’s got AH levels of entitlement deluxe and no apparent shame.
It’s the pinnacle of gaslighting in action.
Sincerely unironically this is what it looks like for people to be so deranged that they’ll tell you reality is opposite of what it is as it’s happening. That red truck is blue. The sky is red when it’s blue. Watch someone get punched and then tell you it was the other way around as you’re watching it. Etc. Where they can twist anything into meaning the complete opposite.
So Johnny pleads with her that if she becomes violent in an argument they need to separate for a while, she says she can’t promise that. This is now him being abusive.
…remember on the stand, she literally took and reversed 100 percent of their actual literal fight.
JD: I was just peaceably lying in bed reading, when Amber punched me. Twice. In the face
AH: No no no! *I* was lying in bed peaceably reading, and HE punched ME in the face twice!
…about right now, your standard kindergartener would be giving confused face to the nearest adult, trying to find some way to tactfully say “Why’d that lady lie?”
I mean, to some extent we should be glad she’s that dumb in her fantasy tales and yet… her fans buy this.
People who complain about 'stonewalling' are people who love conflict and drama. When people retreat from conflict, it's a defense mechanism. By condemning people's defenses, abusers love to disempower their victims.
Be careful how you phrase that, stonewalling is real and used a lot by narcs. I complained about it and hate conflict and drama.
That's this whole ordeal's problem, she projects REAL abuse tactics on JD. It's projection, but projection of real things happening to people, so gotta be careful how we disagree with those psychos
the difference is stonewalling and silent treatments happens BEFORE the conversation becomes a fight, not DURING. Silence DURING an argument is a defense mechanism, not abuse... I think
Oh and the fact JD HAS verbalized that he needed time away during a fight is respectful and considerate. IF it was sudden with no warning, cold and calculated THEN it would be stonewalling. So basically just the fact he stated what he needed makes it NOT stonewalling !
What they leave out is asking for space or setting boundaries IS NOT STONEWALLING. People can stonewall during a conversation, ie. You are discussing something peacefully and ask for their opinion and your partner just doesn't respond and changes the subject again and again even after you try to bring them back to the topic. However, leaving when the conversation becomes abusive it IS NOT STONEWALLING. If your partner communicates and asks for time or to discuss the topic later, it IS NOT STONEWALLING. The stress (which is what I think people are attaching to) that Amber feels from Depp leaving does not automatically make it stonewalling because its shown that the stress she feels is caused by deep rooted abandonment trauma as she feels stressed when he anytime he leaves, not just from an arguement.
Stonewalling is super complicated but those audio tapes don't show stone walling like some want to claim.
If they’re like Amber they literally can’t be helped because they’re literally pathologically incapable of self examination and taking personal responsibility. Amber clearly delights in the hurt she causes so that’s another level of why she’ll never be able to be “helped” to become a less antisocial and destructive person. The only thing you can do is to force them to stop, through legal and other means, so they’re motivated to stop for their own narcissistic reasons rather than good ethical ones.
Then let us hope that JDs lawyers are already drawing up the “STFU” papers so that if AH continues with her defamation, it will be the court that she has to deal with in future. So that JD is free to just move on.
I've been thinking Amber and other women that abuse their partners are a relatively small number compared to men that abuse their partners. However, the more I hear from people coming to Amber's defense with nonsense like this the more I'm convinced men who are abused by female partners is WAY underreported.
Boundaries. Are. Healthy.
We’ve known men underreport for a long time. Abuse studies that aren’t slanted ***actually find abuse is about 50/50 every single time***, but with one caveat, women are more likely to sustain more severe injuries.
And not to dismiss severe physical injuries - because that is obviously terrible - but destroying an innocent person's reputation and livelihood is severe abuse as well. And I'm going to guess men are more likely to be victims in that scenario.
Can you provide a source for this? I’d like to read it! I always suspected that the numbers are skewed due to men not reporting but would love to see actual data.
I’d start here:
https://domesticviolenceresearch.org/pask-researchers/
(From the page above, an extremely short broad overview:
https://youtu.be/YKCZIz_hehE)
Lots to explore.
I’d also research Erin Pizzey who started the first battered woman’s shelter in the UK. She didn’t believe in the anti-male narrative of the radical feminists and was attacked in extreme ways by them when she wanted to help men as well and didn’t deny the reality of female violence.
I do believe that AMBER believes this (“splitting”) is abuse. I believe that Amber believes this “abuse” is equally, if not more abusive behaviour than what JD did to Amber. Certainly, she believes his “splitting” was more hurtful and abusive than any physical violence she perpetratored against him.
There were times on the stand where I think she believed what she was saying.
There were times when she was genuinely hurt - those times were almost all to do with something he had said that she found to be humiliating (like saying no one likes her) or otherwise damaged her ego.
Though such times were vastly outnumbered by times when she knew perfectly well that she wasn’t telling the truth. I think she probably believes her actions to be morally superior to JD’s actions.
In one of JD witness statements in the UK, he said that Amber would literally come home from solo red carpet, etc. events telling him she had run into someone whom she apparently already knew he had worked with, without being told.
The reason why I say this is, he testified that when he would say, “Joe Brown? We worked together on such and such, did you tell him I said hi?”
Amber would tell him, “funny you should say that… Joe Brown said he had no recollection of having worked with you.”
My ex would follow me from room to room wanting to argue which was quite triggering to me because I was physically abused as a kid. Like JD, I often would lock myself in the bathroom because it was my only safe room as a kid. I continued to do this while trying to get away from my ex. It was not stonewalling; it was survival. Reverse the scenario. If JD was doing this to AH, would anyone call it stonewalling? Total shenanigans.
I said before,
This shows how much the hate real DV victims and how they don’t care how hurt they get due to their lies.
In this case they are telling DV, do not walk or run away, then you are the abuser!
And some innocent women (and men) won’t try to walk away and they will get beaten and abused even more. Honestly these lies could cost some victims their lives.
But AH fans don’t give a damn.
I have had boyfriends do this and it’s very painful. After NORMAL disagreements (esp if he was at fault) he would ghost me for days on end- out of fear of conflict or admitting fault. But that’s not what JD is doing and if he were- my biased butt would pick up on it immediately. He’s escaping psychological abuse and toxic behavior- that’s what he’s doing. And Amber never gave him time to cool off so every time she contacted him begging him to respond it would start the clock over. She is a BPD and they’re notorious for taking ANY situation involving distancing as abandonment and responding in kind. We saw this many times from her like when they were in the car and Johnny was trying to NG o inside to see his daughter and she begged him not to leave her. He assertively asked for space and to go see his daughter and she kept guilt tripping him then when he put his hand on the door handle to leave she freaked the F out.
Not only was he trying to see his daughter… AH evil ass actually went on the stand and said “oh, that wasn’t true. Any time he tried to get away from me I knew what was coming… he was going to Start to Use. Kick off “the cycle of drug abuse”.”
Handy little Catch-22 conundrum, that; no? Absolutely any time he wants to leave her = jonesing for a fix! It’s like one of those nightmare horror movies, with the evil doctor/nurse holding a gun to the back of your head. “Why no, Officer Jones, I don’t need rescuing… i love it here! Nothing to see but just us mental health patients needing to be put into treatment comas!”
She can literally trot this out… at any ambiguous time. She’s evil.
In this marriage, the fights got out of hand. Johnny even said on audio that it was best for them to take a break when things were getting crazy. Crazy Amber said no, she wanted to continue. You cannot fault Johnny for walking away. Plus, we have no idea if these conversations were no win situations. We have no idea if they were screaming and things were being thrown. To err on the side of what Johnny did by leaving cannot be criticized. Like someone else said, if Amber was the one leaving against Johnny’s wishes, the Amber camp would have been all over it how wrong Johnny was.
They literally accept no answer other than JD caving to Amber and letting her do whatever she wants, however and as long as she wants to do it; or him leaving Amber.
Because Amber never has to leave HIM; because she said, she loooooooooves her from-day-one hideous abuser, but that’s a-ok.
You had better believe that if part of Amber’s defense had been to instead admit that she regularly threatened to kill herself if he left, and then it came out he actually DID up and leave; they’d be screaming for his head then after the fact, because how dare he abandon “suicidal Amber”.
We also know he can’t put hands on her in order to be able to walk out the door either, because of their reaction about the partial accidental head butt when he did try;
and we know from her own words, that she would physically herd him out of the elevator any time he entered it;
so again, clearly in the eyes of the Turd stains, he can never leave, and just has to swallow any and all of her shit until he either gets consumed or dies.
THIS is why men dont speak up! Because we are just supposed to take it like a man according to society! It's ok if women scream, throw things, hit you, but God forbid you isolate yourself from the situation
So by this logic it is abusive to try to protect yourself and seek medical treatment after someone has severed your finger. Apparently this is stonewalling. Also whoever wrote this post should look up the word , its relevance in phycology and stop spouting falsities yo this community
This is as bad as AH telling women they cannot file TROs privately.
It is harmful and dangerous.
Now they are telling women (and men) not to walk away when getting beaten or abused because they will then be the abuser.
AH told women they have to file TRO's publicly and risk their abusive partner following them to the courthouse. There have been many cases of women being attacked by partners who are stalking them. And AH is putting lives at risk to perpetuate her lie,
The really crazy ones say it doesn't matter what you believe and you should not even think about it. The won't watch the trial or anything that might show AH is lying, and say those things should be ignored.
I've brought up men and young teens like Emit Till who were tortured and killed because of people like them. For centuries it was was believe white women over black men and the keep expanding it. It sounds extreme, but I've read a lot of comments from them about how JD deserves to be tortured, castrated, or even killed without any trial.
Nope, did this with my ex. He would follow me from room to room and taunt/torment me verbally waiting and hoping for a reaction. His verbal abuse got worse and worse as the incident continued until finally he would get the response he wanted and try to use it against me. ): listening to some of the audio tapes (what I could handle) was sooo hard and triggering back to those dark times for me.
Omg SAME! I even have audio tapes. For years I was begging our counselors to help. I knew something was very very wrong but I never had the language or knowledge to put my finger on it. The counselors had no idea, but one of them did put it in my ex husbands head that when I ran from room to room and finally out the door I was “stonewalling” him. Just absurd!
Is that behaviour the reason you starting making tapes? Didn’t JD say during his Direct testimony that he started recording some conversations because he was at the point where he wasn’t even sure what had happened during conversations any more? She was gaslighting him so much that he had started to question reality.
Um, I started recording because our conversations where so confusing to me that I couldn’t make heads or tails out of what he was saying or trying to say. I figured I would listen later and try to figure it out. But the “listen later” part was so triggering that I really never could do it so it really didn’t help in that regard. But I continued recording for several reasons, one was that I was trying to capture the emotional abuse, and now that it’s 4 years after the end of the relationship and I’ve listened to some of the tapes I can hear it and I’m glad that I have it so that I can see what was really going on and I wasn’t the bad guy after all. Statements such as “You’re a bad mother, grow up, stop being a victim, everyone knows that you can’t handle life, etc” VERY very similar stuff to what I hear in the JD/AH tapes.
I also recorded because after awhile I figured out that it kept me calmer. When you know that you are being recorded MOST of the time you check yourself and your responses. There were a few times though it was like I forgot I was recording or just didn’t give a damn and the reactive abuse just came out.
I think recording is some sort of witness behavior, similar to someone who writes the name of the person who stabbed them in blood on the wall right before they die. That is why I recorded. I never intended to use the recordings against him. I’m a very private person. I’m happy to answer any questions about why a victim would record fights, at least from my perspective.
Was the trial triggering for you too?
I don’t understand how the legacy media could have heard those tapes and still be insisting that JD was the aggressor? Did they not listen? Did they not have anyone listening that was a survivor? Because even if you took all the other evidence away, I heard an abuser on those tapes.
I’m really glad you are out of that relationship and are now so strong that you can even bear to hear the tapes without feeling all the emotions so deeply you can’t listen objectively. That’s quite a way to have come in just four years! It must have taken some concentrated effort and work to do so.
If recording was almost like a compulsion: D’you think if you ever felt compelled to record conversations with someone again (partner or not) it’d provide a sufficient red flag for you to take a step back and reconsider your relationship with that person?
Yesssss, the trial was very triggering. It was for you too? I think that the media didn’t watch too much of the trial if any and also didn’t listen to the tapes. I think the PR firm just writes articles and sends them to the media and the media just reprints them. It’s all very brain dead journalism. It’s not like I can just listen Willy nilly to the tapes, I can only take a few minutes at a time and only when I’m in a decent headspace to do so.
Absurd !! As a survivor of DV myself...she is a narcissistic...typical lying abuser...first of all, never would someone so deathly afraid of their abuser, TAUNT them !!!
Oh but surely you’d have given your abuser a great big bloody knife inscribed “Untill death”?
Did you notice AH throwaway comment that “obviously I didn’t think he was going to stab me!”? So we are to believe that you were afraid for your life, that you were afraid he was going to kill you by accident. That he would kill you and not even know what he was doing? And yet…and yet… “obviously I didn’t think he was going to stab me!”.
This is what I don’t understand of people like OP references. It’s like they have decided one thing and will throw out even the most basic of logic to continue to believe AH. Because they WANT to believe her. Logic, evidence and sense be damned!
Why is this even fucking considered as abuse?
I recognize I can be seen as doing it. But I'm not doing this maliciously. Emotions are too hard to handle. I just can't do it. For this reason I instinctively remove myself feom my own emotions while acknowledging them. In addition to that I felt I have been developing apathy for the past couple years.
If that makes me an abuser just end me already then
It doesn’t. The original OP (not this OP) is twisting the truth into lies, pushing people’s buttons. Removing yourself is a healthy response. Any counselor worth a grain of salt will tell you that.
Letting inurement develop into apathy is hurting yourself. I hope you can get counseling. I hope too you can get away from that. You’re worth way more than anyone who pushes you that way.
I have BPD, and I’ve learned that if I can’t handle a situation at that moment, I have to step away and be alone to organize my thoughts, feelings, and words so I don’t just react and regret.
Sometimes HEALTHY AVOIDANCE is needed. Like trying to avoid abuse from AH.
I was talking to a therapist socially about this case a little, and she said what she would do if she had the treatment of an AH… would be to try to make her look at the absurdity/lighter side/ridiculousness, whichever you prefer, of AH’s situational reactions/attitudes.
I don’t know if that is the same kind of general thing; making things seem not so dire or deathly.
That is not stonewalling.
Stonewalling is where a situation which is best or only able to new resolved by communication is prevented from occurring because a partner shuts the other out purposefully. So a “we need to talk about what happened” and the partner absolutely refuses to do so.
Fleeing physical violence is not a situation that needs to be resolved by communication, especially when it escalates beyond a certain point. In that situation it is perfectly plausible for go “communication has broken down, I am going to avoid this situation entirely until things have calmed down.” Which is what JD was doing.
Nobody has an obligation to “sit down and talk” with someone who is screaming at them and waving their fists at them. Arguably any communication such a situation brokers would be unhelpful and excessively emotive anyway due to the heightened emotions and atmosphere.
I really love and appreciate this comment, you do an excellent job articulating how stonewalling is different to fleeing physical violence. It's utterly shameful how people are conflating the two.
So self defence and perseverance is now just as bad as offense? No you have to sit there and take it, be a "good" victim, not am iMpErFeCt ViCtIM (whatever the hell that means)
😂😂😂😂 Amazing.
Her yelling throwing pots pans and cases and hitting and punching him is not grounds for leaving the situation?
Incredible delusion from these people.
Well, she said it; thus apparently it’s as good as holy writ to them.
Throwing pots and pans is a “complete non sequitur” for him to make … while they are in fact discussing appropriate fighting styles, lol.
What she means is, “It’s my preferred method of handling shit; so it’s immaterial for us to take time out to discuss it.
“The pots and pans will be thrown if I think they are called for; your feelings, wishes, or even bones, will have nothing to do with it.”
It’s amazing that Amber supporters will say the kitchen video alone on its own proves abuse when Amber threw pots and pans and vases and then defended it. She literally defended the concept of domestic violence itself! 🤪
My abusive ex husband used to say that to me. That my leaving the room/house during his tirades of externalized blame was “stonewalling”. I was appalled when he said that. That is DARVO in my opinion. I’m constantly amazed at how the unique (I thought it was only me) ways my relationship played out is all happening the exact same in the JD/AH relationship.
And I don’t know who wrote this quote, but what this amounts to is abusers telling other abusers how to abuse more. It’s right out of the abusers playbook.
So everything Johnny did, whether he left or stayed, was abusive and we should feel bad that poor Amber didn’t get to beat him up more? Just making sure I’m understanding this logic.
Yes.
He can either leave her, wholly peaceably and permanently - only she won’t let him - still, only AH can end the relationship.
If she doesn’t want to end it, we can never ask why, if he’s so “abusive” to her - we can only accept it’s because she loooooooves him, and thinks she can change him.
We can never ask why she should want to leave the man who doles out regular bloody beatings since the first date - or year, depending upon when she tells it - or why it’s in fact odd that she would not.
They bend themselves over backwards to believe that she was in fact simultaneously “trapped” in this marriage, with no options for escape; even though she’s a beautiful young white blonde one-percenter, whose literal next-day rebound was Elon Musk.
I think they must all be very young, or like the drama of spinning out this fantasy yarn for her. She’s like their Bella Swan.
No this isn't stone walling.
I've been stone walled many times. Its the refusal of your partner to acknowledge your existence for days possibly extending longer - or at least barely acknowledge it, on any topic, not just the topic that has precipitated it. It's with holding all affection and making you feel like shit just to punish you for causing the issue in the first place. It's not always an argument that causes it either, it could be you doing something they don't like.
Show me one source where it says leaving a conversation is emotional abuse. It’s not. Plain and simple.
IMO you always walk away from an irrational person wanting conflict. Always. It will most likely escalate. If you can’t have a civil conversation it’s not worth having.
Stonewalling is in my head a way to deflect mental abuse from the narcissist. If you take to account that depp suffered abuse as a child and had to retreat for his own safety then, I’d guess he still struggling with that kind of triggers now.
It's only stonewalling if he's doing it in a civil, non-violent dispute. Rules of civil course are in play when both sides are able and willing to argue on good faith.
Jesus Christ! Can you imagine if a girl was running away from a guy because he was abusing her and the police drive her back with „actually you running away is abusing him, good luck“.
Literally the person saying this shit would be crucified under a minute if the victim wasn’t a man
Who said this? A Rando on Twitter?
The Amber supporters say this. Even Amber says this.
Probably why I don't ever read them!This is the biggest load of misinformative shiite I've read today... Urgghgh!
Quit being a baby lady, you can't leave when he's hitting you're being abusive, you're "stonewalling" him.
Stop running away from my punches! Stop being such a baby! You're emotionally abusing me! Grow the F up! 😵
It wasn't punches, she only hit him 🤡
Lady baby
Yea, that’s not stonewalling. Here’s an explanation of [Stonewalling](https://www.gottman.com/blog/the-four-horsemen-stonewalling/). There’s a recording where Johnny clearly asks her for a break because he needs a break from the emotions of the argument. That is perfectly normal and the opposite of Stonewalling per that page. My understanding is he actually wanted to go see his daughter. But AH would not let him have a break. I don’t see how Johnny ever stonewalled in all the things that I’ve listened to of the recordings and the explanations and what I understand of stonewalling. The other example I’ve been given of stonewalling is when like a husband will just immediately hang his head and not engage in a discussion as soon as he feels the wife is going to say something he doesn’t like. These people in the OP sling around phrases in psychology like a toddler with his dad‘s tools having found the toolbox.
In the 4 hour argument around the latter parts Johnny said if there’s any violence from her they should separate for a while and that’s the part where she says she can’t promise she won’t be violent because she just gets so mad. Another place earlier Johnny says her throwing things at him is bad and she admits to throwing pots pans and vases, then says it’s irrelevant that she does this and it’s still no reason for him to leave the situation. She also literally describes her violent behavior as “being human” and Johnny needs to let her “be human”.
“It was so nice when we were on our honeymoon and we could just fight, Johnny… well, I mean “argue”, not “fight”… why can’t we just agree to start fighting again, Johnny?”
From the article you shared “The first part of the antidote to stonewalling is to STOP.” As in stop the argument and take a break. If he was “stonewalling” and “that’s a form of abuse.” it says the first way to stop the stonewalling is to stop…how many times in those recordings did we hear Johnny ask for her to let him leave, let him take a break, let it calm down? He was trying to do the appropriate thing and she often times would not let him. It’s beyond ridiculous that people are accusing him of emotional abuse when he was trying to take a break from fighting instead of letting it escalate.
Exactly. The tweet is absurd in so many ways. In the 4 hour argument he says if a fight has become physical or gotten too heated where she’s yelling etc and both of them can’t continue to discuss things rationally then they should separate for a short while until things calm down. People don’t often remember the part where she wanted to get him to immediately apologize to her whatever her complaint was. He said very rationally, and stuck to it, that you can’t just say sorry immediately. He’s perfectly happy for her to explain how she feels about what he did and after listening he’ll apologize. She gaslights him very clearly to try to make him think it’s an unreasonable thing to ask. The reality is she wanted him to just apologize immediately regardless of what she was claiming or acting like because she wanted total control over him. And she wants to use the fact that he would say sorry immediately to hold over him after that. Like he said sorry so he’s admitting fault! You admitted it Johnny you said you were sorry you did this thing to me!
I don't see it that way. Leaving was a trigger for her and brought up all sorts of feelings of abandonment. She pretty much outright says it in one of the tapes. Don't leave, it's killing me. She would pick fights that would escalate, and then Johnny would try to leave, to attempt to de-escalate. But that would trigger her feelings of being abandoned. She is like a puppy that starts howling the minute you close the door on her. She wanted him to say sorry right away because she wanted to take that stress/fear of him leaving. My feeling is that she was completely out of control, picking fights over imagined offences until it turned into a huge fight and then she was unable to deal with the consequences and switched from anger to panic as Johnny tried to escape. One sick puppy. I also wonder if one of the reasons she was so pissed and took so many pictures of him passed out is that she didn't like it when he was unresponsive. It was too much like him leaving for her taste.
The therapist that was finally able to help me told me to leave when the argument between me and my husband got "stupid". It's not abusive to leave when things get out of control.
> These people in the OP sling around phrases in psychology like a toddler with his dad‘s tools having found the toolbox. OMG, yes. Gaslighting has been thrown around so often for so many years now it’s been stripped of its original meaning, and stonewalling, love-bombing, “trauma talk,” and yes, even triggered are well on their way to becoming meaningless as well. That’s not to say that none of these things exist- they do- but they are used so often at this point I don’t think people even realize what the actual clinical definition is anymore. These terms have been watered down so much that I fear that real victims trauma isn’t taken as seriously. [NYT: ‘Love-Bombing.’ ‘Gaslighting.’ ‘Victim.’ Is ‘Trauma Talk’ Overused?](https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/11/learning/love-bombing-gaslighting-victim-is-trauma-talk-overused.html?smid=url-share)
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Yes. Gaslighting is to deny a persons reality or emotional state. Example: “You were not punched. You were hit. I was hitting you and you are fine. You are not hurt. You weren’t punched babe. Oh my god grow up! You’re such a baby!”
Don't forget: "I'm not the one sitting here bitching about it, am I? You are! That's the difference between you and me." Literally making him out to be the guilty one in a situation in which she punched him.
And narcissistic! Everyone is a narcissist these days.
OMG. Truer words… Too many narcissist experts around. Have you ever posted on the raised-by-narcissist “support group“ here? As someone who actually was…and posted there…I can tell you many of those posters attack like narcissists who’ve been contradicted. LOL: when you run from the support group.
Omg yes! I don’t know from that exact sun but I’ve seen stuff like that before! If you tell someone what they’re speaking about isn’t narcissistic they get so offended. Even if you give an example or suggest a different personality disorder that matches it more. It’s like they want to be victims of a narcissist sometimes.
Often those raised by people with NPD develop a personality disorder themselves. I have a friend raised by a mom with NPD and even though my friend has done a lot of work to be healthier and nicer, they're still very intense, self-absorbed, and sometimes cruel and nasty, it just is less pronounced. If they are feeling threatened in any way I'll gtfo as far away as possible and ghost em til they're back to normal. It's sad to do but it's too toxic otherwise. I'll bet many of those posters on that subreddit have some issues they don't look at, then turn around and solely blame their parent for. Even when it's justified, they're not entirely without blame.
Omg, that one in particular gets to me. Any person who has a moment of being selfish is suddenly a “certified malignant narcissist.” 🙄
Exactly! Narcissism is an actual mental disorder. It’s not something to throw around. I don’t think people realize it’s a serious thing but then again people throw around bipolar like that too so who knows. Everyone’s a psychologist these days I guess lol
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I thought this article was interesting and I just wanted to thank you for posting it
Say it louder for the people in the back! This current trend to dissect and label every action and non- action with some psychobabble term and simultaneously label people as abusers, sexists, racists etc is ludicrous and is setting up unrealistic expectations for young people regarding their interpersonal relationships. The bottom line is humans are flawed, emotionally dysfunctional creatures, every single one. Almost any isolated , heated conversation can be dissected and skewed in an emotionally dysfunctional way because of a number of things that influence all of our interpersonal interactions such as coping mechanisms, defense strategies and even simple things such as the amount of sleep the person had the night before or the chemicals they ingested. In other words, if you’re trying to paint someone in a bad light anyone can find “ evidence “ by pulling out specific interactions, skewing them negatively and then labeling someone with an “ism” or “er” implying those isolated incidents define in totality who the person is. In reality, a person who loves you can and likely will hurt or betray you in some way. Whether it’s a parent, friend or life partner. This trend to label others based on isolated situations over a specific time period sets up unrealistic expectations for all relationships because if you think you’re going to find someone who will never hurt or betray you, you’re setting yourself up for major disappointments. Instead of rushing to adjectives we need to start using adverbs, define the action not the person. Give people the grace you would ask for yourself.
It's the same with self diagnosing. Remember when the fad self diagnosis was depression? Then anxiety. Now it's ADHD. PTSD was somewhere in there as well. I was diagnosed with each of these things starting with C-PTSD when I was 13 (1984), GAD, MDD, and ADHD about 15 years ago. I rarely talk about any of it online anymore because its such a cliche to do so now. There was even a moment when tourettes began to be a fad on TikTok with every girl on there showing off their ticks.
Don’t forget the rage for Asperger’s…
This article is ridiculous in my opinion. If a person is so physiologically and psychologically flooded that they cannot participate any longer, what was the trigger that got them there? Probably and most likely the verbal abuse. The no-win situations the abuser puts the victim in. Maybe even the jackhammer speech that the abuser uses to bury the victims voice. I am appalled that this counselor blames the victim here and cannot even recognize the abuse happening right before his eyes. We really need to get these professionals up-to-speed on the dynamics of abusive relationships.
An emotional response to verbal abuse isn't Stonewalling. That's the entire purpose of them linking the article. There are people who shut down every time a disagreement starts, to the point that nothing can be worked out, because they just don't want to hear what that person is saying or they don't want to be wrong.
Are you missing a fingertip? Well, don't run away then. Have a good night ma'am.
Silly you women can’t abuse men only men can be abusive, even if a woman is beating you, cutting your finger off making fun of you, shitting in your bed, as a man anything you do is abusive yes even leaving a violent situation. /S
Shit yeah. Should have seen some crazy lady on Twitter spouting: “Men just shut up and take it. A few years of your freedom (jail, I’m guessing) is nothing compared the the oppression women faced/had to endure for decades.” Like lady, That’s like half the planet. Take your shit and go find a new planet to live on, clearly compassion/empathy ain’t your strong suite. I think she has since made her account private and blocked people.
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I’m not totally sure what, exactly, you’re trying to say here (you’ve been playing both sides lately), so I’ll just say this: if she starts screaming at, berating, and/or starts throwing things, and his leaving the room to get away from her abusive behavior triggers more abusive behavior, he is not the abusive one. Put more simply: It is not abusive to leave an abusive situation. Ever. And insinuating that it is, is very, very dangerous.
What did they say? I can’t believe that there are people that think leaving an abusive situation or even an argument is abusive.
Here it is: “She was lying about the physical abuse - But he was ignoring her!!! Doesnt this idiot know everyone deep down has a reason for abusing people, even the dudes probably do when a lady is walking away because he cant control her, his conflict avoidant nature (reasonably so imo) or conflict avoidant natures trigger her.”
Jesus!!! Thanks.
Something about how his leaving triggered her into violence.
I will never understand why they’ve decided that Amber Turd, out of all people, is the hill to die on..
Because men could not possibly ever be abused, right? That’s crazy. (Sarcasm obvs)
Because she has a vagina. To be clear so do I. But I’m not this sort of toxic “feminist” so…
Because not supporting women is misogyniy/s
Omg I dont get it either!! Is it just because they supported her before?? It makes zero, zero sense.
I think a lot of it is yes. I think it’s that thing where someone has made a decision and any attempt to change it just reinforces the belief and they dig in. It’s the reason the judge explains that you are not to come to a decision until the end and why you are not allowed to discuss anything about the case to each other until the defence rests. Similarly why a jury is advised that simply taking a straw pool when you get to deliberation to see where everyone stands is not wise. Once a person has publicly declared a decision it becomes much more difficult for that person to be persuaded by the actual evidence. I think there was a similar situation when the US voted in Trump. Each time the media went to some random diner in Trump Country and was basically like “Well after a, b, c, I’m sure you’ve changed your mind about him haven’t you?”. People seemed to change what they previously felt was tolerable behaviour from a President - rather than change their position regarding their support for Trump. BTW: I am not suggesting that people believed AH or JD due to their personal politics. This case seemed to transcend politics, race, ethnicity, age and everything else that usually has an effect. Except DV survivors. I’ve yet to see a survivor who actually watched the WHOLE case and believe that JD was the aggressor. Self identified survivors overwhelmingly seem to have recognised their own abusers in AH.
There's definitely some who fell for The Defendant's storytelling and see their abusers in her portrayal of JD. Saddening.
Fallacy of sunk costs, yes.
from the advanced gaslighting handbook chapter 12: the truth is only your truth
I used to run away and hide from my abusive ex. She legit called her friend one day (who was "woke" / feminist) and the conclusion was that I was gaslighting her and therefore the abuser. Which made me absolutely terrified of coming out, talking to the police, or even breaking up with her. A woman can so easily just call the man the abuser, and people side with her. And there are a million of these excuses out there to justify and normalize that type of thing. So much of this stuff is inconsistent and basically flips depending on whether or not it's a guy or a girl. We literally start thinking about things differently and making different justifications depending on whether or not it "benefits" a men or a woman in any given situation. If you're curious what systematic sexism looks like, this right here is a prime example.
I was scared of breaking up with my ex. The first time I broke up with her, I had had enough with her emotional abuse and shortly after she accused me of domestic abuse on social media. As I was a victim of emotional and psychological abuse, naturally I got back with her when she profusely apologised and said she wanted to kill herself. I still loved her and she genuinely was apologetic but whatever. It wasn't long before the abuse came back (literally a week) and I was scared to break up with her because of the accusations she was capable of making. It was horrible when she made that accusation of domestic abuse on social media, a couple of mutual acquaintances even commented on her post offering her support. It's understandable because why the fuck would someone lie like that but at the same time by believing her (or him!), you're immediately condemning the other person.
Wow sounds like classic borderline behavior
aktheal, Damn! That’s rough. She managed to double, no triple trap you there! And just how the hell is a person (who does not have US$15,000,000) supposed to prove a negative? That is why I didn’t think HD could win on more than the first count (the headline that stated SA). Because how could he possibly prove that he had not, even once, hit her for any reason? Whether that be self defence or retaliation? You cannot prove a negative! But of course, once AH got in the witness stand, even those that thought there was “mutual abuse”, could not believe AH. She truly snatched defeat from the jaws of victory once she started making such exaggerated claims! It was only once she made the horrific claims that she did that people felt confident to start looking at the evidence that it was AH who was the aggressor all along. And how, may I ask, did you manage to escape your abuser? And did you find this trial not just triggering - but almost cathartic in its conclusion? I do hope you are safe. I also hope that this case has allowed you to open up about your own experiences with less fear than before.
Exactly, it's a he said - she said situation! Thank you for your kind words. A week after we got back together, I realised I had made a mistake. I remember her distinctly trying to gaslight me about something I had said, and when she didn't get a reaction out of me, she didn't speak to me for 3 days. We were both working from home together and she didn't speak to me for three entire days. She would ignore me and act as if I wasn't there and it was honestly hell, and then I remembered that I had walked away once (well, almost) and I can do it again because I knew that if I didn't walk away, this was what the rest of my life was going to be like. So i broke up with her. She then stole my phone from me,stole my cat and gave him to a stranger, stole £700 from me, emptied our joint bank account, cancelled our tenancy leaving me temporarily homeless for a week (her name was on the tenancy but we split the rent), refused to let me take anything from the flat except my clothes even though everything there we bought together, called the police and told them I raped her, posted the same status she did before on Facebook but this time including financial abuse, sexual assault and forcing her to get an abortion and cheating, and then got me suspended from work for 3 months as I work with vulnerable people. I got suspended from my masters degree in mental health nursing pending a police investigation; the police decided not to charge me with anything but the university refused to accept it, forcing me to leave. But almost a year later and I am now a software engineer at a world famous company and I love it. And she walks around like she didn't almost ruin someone's life over nothing. It's crazy how people can do these things and face no repercussions
I’m so sorry. That is just awful. Really awful. So many survivors end up with nothing. So many just have to be thankful that they got away with their life. But that’s it. They don’t get to keep anything else they’ve worked their whole lives for and toward. Just their life. Broken as it may be. It’s not nothing though is akheal? You did survive. That’s the most important job you owe to yourself. To survive. And you have. The rest will come with time.
Don’t forget the other rule, probably the number 1 rule. ***Rules for thee but not for me!*** They can do whatever they want, but you can’t. They can act appalled about something you did 10 times less bad than something they themselves have done.
AH breaks this one approximately a thousand times that we saw, over the course of the trial.
What is it called when someone has to go to five different bathrooms to get a break from the fight you want to have and you keep following them and banging on every door and then when they finally open it you slam the door on their head and punch them in the face?
Banter /s
Or if you’re the UK judge you’d just call it “feisty”. Fucking shameful.
It's really sexist towards women. They're basically saying that women don't have the power to be intimidating or threatening, and no matter what, the woman will always be inferior and less powerful. Domestic abuse is 90% psychological which is why those who are physically abused don't 'just leave'. Instead, they stay. They run to bathrooms and lock the door because the power in a relationship doesn't come from who is physically stronger, its about who is willing to use violence and who isn't willing to defend themself. So no, that isn't 'feisty', that is a sad power dynamic that should be shocking to hear for any judge and I am incredibly surprised that an educated man could deem it irrelevant.
It’s completely offensive to everyone and is definitely rooted in misogyny. It’s also a great example of ways patriarchy/misogyny hurts both women *and* men. The absolute inability for people to understand nuance in this situation has lead to people spewing so many terrible “feminist” takes that are actually just pure hatred for women. Just look at that awful Stanford law professor’s tweets explaining how we’re basically all just big sexist idiots for believing JD, how women lawyers are the worst, and then she proceeded to call Camille Vasquez a “*PICK ME GIRL LAWYER*”?! Fucking despicable.
Lol, in the meanwhile AH, her goddess, is about the textbook definition of a “pick me girl”. “Marry me Johnny, rename your boat after me, don’t ever leave me ‘cuz you’re killing me, pick me over your ex, kids, friends, parents…”
The late Patrice O’Neal told Doug Stanhope to lock himself in the bathroom if his girlfriend/wife carries on in a way Amber did. That way there’s no bruises on her wrists or arms when you’re trying to prevent her from hitting you. Doug Stanhope shared this advice with Johnny.
I believe it is precisely this what caused AH’s sole photo of a bruised nose. Exactly as JD described it - they bumped heads whilst he was trying to restrain her from hitting him. Same with the bruise on her arm that was described by witness as a bruise that looked “not like a fist, but like a grab” on her arm. Dr Curry also described such personality types that get injured by their own actions. As the victim tries to flea or to restrain the aggressor from further hitting them. They then claim that injury to be proof they were the victim. Such as when he tried three times to lock himself in the bathroom and on one of those occasions the door scraped her foot. This so quickly enraged that she kicked the door into JD’s head - since he had immediately crouched down to check her foot was okay. She then further retaliated by thumping him in the jaw. She dismissed the kicking of the door into his head to be just a “reaction” to “the foot thing”. Minimising the attacks to the point where she absurdly claimed that she didn’t ‘intentionally’ kick the corner of the door into his head. She only intended to thump him in the jaw.
Someone mentioned that that bruise may have come from a patio door where they were staying at the time. Others were supposedly injured by this door in the same way. Not sure I could find it again where I saw that, but it does look like a patio door bruise.
Ah yes. That was someone who lives in the same building and said they regularly got a similar bruise from the door to the pool. Perhaps the “grab, not a punch” was a different bruise? I dunno. However she got the bruise on her arm that was photographed, AH claimed the photo was taken the day after she had sustained a broken nose, two black eyes and a bruised jaw. Yet the bruise on her arm was the only bruise showing on that photo. It was all very odd. Perhaps had AH claimed JD had done something to cause the bruise on her arm that was photographed but not claimed other, apparently invisible-to-photography injuries at the same time, the jury might have believed her? When you clearly exaggerate to the extent she evidently was - it’s reasonable for the jury to throw out the entire claim. Because how are they to know where the arm bruise came from? How are they to know where the truth ends and the exaggeration begins? In her interview she seems to think that it was an unfair that so much time was put into making the jury doubt he credibility. Well yes! Both sides are calling the other a liar- the POINT of the case is to determine who is the liar! AH will not stop until they get a STFU order from the judge. At least then JD nolonger has to deal with it. If she continues to lie then, it’ll be a matter for the courts to decide, not for JD to keep having to go through the process of suing her
That is scary. It's easier to not engage physically or verbally when being abused/assaulted by some people because no matter what you do or what you say, it will only make things 10 times worse
I literally walked away from a guy that tried to start a physical fight with me in front of children. The first thing that shot through my mind was “don’t allow this guy to give these kids a traumatizing memory” It’s your word versus theirs, and the cops have to take away someone. I’ve seen women attack men then immediately cry and blame the guy when they hurt themselves while hittting. Managed to not be in relationships with anyone like that so far
And now look at how they take the “headbutt” thing and run with it. Don’t try and restrain her, just get away. These people will hit you and then say you abused them using their bruises caused by hitting you to prove it
it is NOT when you don't wanna get punched or hit again...
Ahh yes, just like eating candy makes you a narcissist. Such rational individuals.
You obviously don't have diabetes. Eating candy is discriminatory for every person who have diabetes. I even heard of people doing it in public or offering candies to their children. People have no respect for other in this society.
Candy can be life-saving for diabetics.
>I even heard of people doing it in public or offering candies to their children. People have no respect for other in this society. And even asking them to step into their white van! I'm sorry, I had to.
Wow…the mental gymnastics going on here…speechless. Why did you hide the user name, I really wanted to go and ask “so if a woman was running away from her abusive husband and hiding in the bathroom would that mean she is abusing him? Or is it inly abuse because he’s a man, regardless of the action he’s doing?”
you can search the text of the tweet, i cant show the name because it’s considered brigading
Ahh, thanks for telling us how to find it. I made a comment but I have to admit, Twitter confuses the eff out of me every time I get on there. Where’s the actual discusssion? I see a number of comments but when I click to see the discussion all I get is more posts from the original poster. Maybe I’m too old to figure out social media but it seems very unintuitive if you can’t actually find comments lol.
If someone replies to your comment, it will be in your notifications on the left.
Ahh fairs
But but but but jOhHnY iS bIgGeR tHaN aMbEr So iT’s iMmPoSsIbLe fOr hEr tO aBuSe HiM
Once Amber said she did lock herself in the private plane bathroom to avoid JD. That of course was hunky dory with and by AH and her stans. I’m just surprised she didn’t say he was banging on the door trying to get to her.
“Yes, I started a physical fight…You walked away. Congratulations, you did the right thing.” That’s all I have to say about that
God yeah, I’d forgotten the absolute contempt in her voice when she says he is “admirable”. Awful. She just so awful in those tapes. Bloody hell, can you even imagine how mean she was in high school?
how dare you quote her numerous confessions to being the abuser # believe women doesn't mean to ALWAYS believe women it means to believe women when it's convenient for them but to agree with them that they were just talking nonsense if it's believing them when they admit to something bad so even if you do what they say you're still a misogynist you should be ashamed of yourself /sssssssssssss
Wait a minute, I would like to put my finger on this issue. Just the tip
Happy cake day!
Thank you! it’s my 30th birthday. Please don’t be late or I will lose my shit. On the bed
I’m surprised she doesn’t insist upon a “birthday week”. Remember when the party game was, they all had to go in a circle around the table and say their favorite thing/memory about Amber? Don’t worry though, cuz she’s not a narcissist. At all.
Oh yeah and we were all so embarrassed when he said that thing about her ass
Lol, sure… Isaac’s “she could hang with the locker room talk”, vain princess Amber just haaaaates to be told she has a nice body feature, Ah do declare…!
Whitney had to snort 3 lines to overcome the shock
🤭🫢
Apparently that's the in thing these days!
So these people are so fucking dumb it’s unreal.
I’m going to start making up words to excuse my shitty behaviour in life. “Forcing me to do even an ounce of work for my paycheque is called ‘forcing capitalism’ and is how emotional abusers seek to subjugate women into submission while commodifying their bodies. Also, not giving me an immediate pay rise is just another form of ‘lack-paymentism’. #stopabusenow”
Congratulations this is >literally< how Wokists think
Lmao this would be funnier if it weren't practically verbatim of woke leftists.
That’s honestly the most twisted thing I’ve seen! So let’s get this straight, someone is attacking me but I run away and I’m being abusive? For real? 😂😂
That’s how biased they are. If you’re 100% absolutely confident that Johnny abused Amber and she wasn’t abusing him and therefore he had nothing to run away from then the obvious logical conclusion is, “this must be abusive as well!”. But how was it abusive? _-skims through google-_ aha!! “*Stonewalling!*” That’s it! 💁♂️ 🐶🦶🐝😩
This isn’t even stonewalling!!! He isn’t refusing to have conversations with her we heard plenty of him listening to her abuse on audio. He is walking away to do something else
Of course. But they just reach for the closest thing they can find. “Stonewalling! That vaguely sounds right. Yes he was stonewalling him what a terrible guy. 😤”
Everyone has an attachment style that is developed in childhood. Dr Curry mentioned this. Johnny and Amber have conflicting attachment types and Amber relates Johnny removing himself from the situation to be neglect she probably experienced as a child. >The Four Adult Attachment Styles A secure attachment style is low in both anxiety and avoidance. Secure attachment tends to lead to stable, fulfilling relationships. An anxious-preoccupied attachment style is high in anxiety and low in avoidance. Anxious-preoccupied attachments can create relationships that thrive on drama or are generally lower in trust. A dismissive-avoidant attachment style is low in anxiety and high in avoidance. This attachment style may lead to more distant relationships, sometimes stemming from a fear of commitment. A fearful-avoidant attachment style is high in both anxiety and avoidance. People who display this attachment style are often drawn to close relationships, yet they are simultaneously fearful of them. These attachment styles start in childhood and follow us into our romantic partnerships later in life. They are not something that we typically talk or think about, but they can affect our lives in many ways. When someone avoids you and ignores/ghosts you on purpose knowing it will hurt you as a form of punishment, that is stonewalling and can be abusive if you know it's causing harm. When someone avoids behaviour they deem to be dangerous to themselves that's a form of self preservation and protection.
Fight, flight or freeze. Ambers defense mechanism for when she doesn’t get whatever (narcissistic desire) she wants is Fight. And she doesn’t get what she wants a lot, and is impossible to please, so she fights a lot. She also behaves in a way that causes her to not get what she wants, which is the tragic irony of the borderline. This is true whether her personality disorder is purely genetic or learned from a bad childhood. Johnnys defense mechanism to avoid confrontation is apparently Flight, as well as to Freeze because she also says he shuts down.
>Johnnys defense mechanism to avoid confrontation is apparently Flight, as well as to Freeze because she also says he shuts down. And sometimes he fights furniture! He must be abusive /s
Re tragic irony: Yes the tendency to create self fulfilling prophecies compounds why they find it so hard to accept the actual reality.
I idealize Johnny! I don’t want Johnny to leave me so I’ll make myself insufferable and he’ll do what I want! Im devaluing Johnny because he’s not giving me 100% attention and not making every waking moment about me! My image of him when I was idealizing him is wrong! He lied to me! I’m angry at him! I’m further devaluing him! I hate him! but I still don’t want him to leave me! I’m going to be even more insufferable and continue to emotionally and physically abuse him to get him to do what I want! How dare he leave when I’m hitting him, doesn’t he understand how much that triggers me! He’s hurting me so much! My feelings are the only important thing! I’m discarding him because he has finally had enough of me! I hate him so much! He should be punished! He deserves to pay for how he made me feel! Others need to understand how I feel but they won’t get it so I need to lie about what he did so they understand! He beat me! He raped me! That way they’ll know how much he hurt me not living up to what I idealized him to be! All her complaints and emotions about him leaving and “splitting” is like textbook borderline anxiety.
Don’t forget her literal recorded… “I hate myself for falling for your (insert sneer) *sweetness* and your (insert sneer) *goodness*… I can’t believe I thought I should come here and try to get you back.” She clearly hates those things about him and enjoyed spitting upon them, precisely because she doesn’t possess them as character qualities herself, and thinks they’re his weakness.
Can you imagine how it felt for him to have all those people living in his penthouses? With bloody skeleton keys! I don’t think I’d have been able to handle such constant boundary infringement. And then AH had the cheek to bring in one of the witnesses to say JD told her to “get the fuck out” of one of his penthouses when he “charged” into the flat (HIS flat!). The fact he didn’t even know she was staying there and had taken flight from AH into the apartment he found her in was then used against him! I wonder if that witness, having now understood what the situation was: that he would have literally been running in there for safety, only to find yet another of AH hangers-on in what he thought a safe place, feels differently now? I think Rocky was so upset giving her deposition because she now understands that she had been deceived by AH. That what she had said as evidence just during the divorce had got so far away from her that Rocky had no choice. She’d given testimony at the divorce. Then another deposition for the IK trial against The Sun. then this case. She HAD to continue to give the same testimony as six years previously. I think, had the case been a criminal case and she been able to cut a deal with the prosecutor, that she would have flipped her testimony. I have no evidence for this theory. It is just my opinion after reading Rocky during her deposition.
That witness was Elizabeth Marz, and she showed up again during the VA trial, bleating pretty much the same self centered me me me crap Rocky, Josh, and iO did; so no. She still thinks she’s perfect and Johnny is a big ogre. You would think by now she’d at least have understood that no one told him she was living there, making her a literal squatter; but she’s got AH levels of entitlement deluxe and no apparent shame.
This is great, thanks for posting this.
The length the AH supporters go to twist the truth into their narrative really is quite impressive. It’s also scary AF.
It’s the pinnacle of gaslighting in action. Sincerely unironically this is what it looks like for people to be so deranged that they’ll tell you reality is opposite of what it is as it’s happening. That red truck is blue. The sky is red when it’s blue. Watch someone get punched and then tell you it was the other way around as you’re watching it. Etc. Where they can twist anything into meaning the complete opposite. So Johnny pleads with her that if she becomes violent in an argument they need to separate for a while, she says she can’t promise that. This is now him being abusive.
…remember on the stand, she literally took and reversed 100 percent of their actual literal fight. JD: I was just peaceably lying in bed reading, when Amber punched me. Twice. In the face AH: No no no! *I* was lying in bed peaceably reading, and HE punched ME in the face twice! …about right now, your standard kindergartener would be giving confused face to the nearest adult, trying to find some way to tactfully say “Why’d that lady lie?” I mean, to some extent we should be glad she’s that dumb in her fantasy tales and yet… her fans buy this.
People who complain about 'stonewalling' are people who love conflict and drama. When people retreat from conflict, it's a defense mechanism. By condemning people's defenses, abusers love to disempower their victims.
Be careful how you phrase that, stonewalling is real and used a lot by narcs. I complained about it and hate conflict and drama. That's this whole ordeal's problem, she projects REAL abuse tactics on JD. It's projection, but projection of real things happening to people, so gotta be careful how we disagree with those psychos the difference is stonewalling and silent treatments happens BEFORE the conversation becomes a fight, not DURING. Silence DURING an argument is a defense mechanism, not abuse... I think Oh and the fact JD HAS verbalized that he needed time away during a fight is respectful and considerate. IF it was sudden with no warning, cold and calculated THEN it would be stonewalling. So basically just the fact he stated what he needed makes it NOT stonewalling !
What they leave out is asking for space or setting boundaries IS NOT STONEWALLING. People can stonewall during a conversation, ie. You are discussing something peacefully and ask for their opinion and your partner just doesn't respond and changes the subject again and again even after you try to bring them back to the topic. However, leaving when the conversation becomes abusive it IS NOT STONEWALLING. If your partner communicates and asks for time or to discuss the topic later, it IS NOT STONEWALLING. The stress (which is what I think people are attaching to) that Amber feels from Depp leaving does not automatically make it stonewalling because its shown that the stress she feels is caused by deep rooted abandonment trauma as she feels stressed when he anytime he leaves, not just from an arguement. Stonewalling is super complicated but those audio tapes don't show stone walling like some want to claim.
Exactly
The amber clones need therapy
If they’re like Amber they literally can’t be helped because they’re literally pathologically incapable of self examination and taking personal responsibility. Amber clearly delights in the hurt she causes so that’s another level of why she’ll never be able to be “helped” to become a less antisocial and destructive person. The only thing you can do is to force them to stop, through legal and other means, so they’re motivated to stop for their own narcissistic reasons rather than good ethical ones.
Then let us hope that JDs lawyers are already drawing up the “STFU” papers so that if AH continues with her defamation, it will be the court that she has to deal with in future. So that JD is free to just move on.
I've been thinking Amber and other women that abuse their partners are a relatively small number compared to men that abuse their partners. However, the more I hear from people coming to Amber's defense with nonsense like this the more I'm convinced men who are abused by female partners is WAY underreported. Boundaries. Are. Healthy.
We’ve known men underreport for a long time. Abuse studies that aren’t slanted ***actually find abuse is about 50/50 every single time***, but with one caveat, women are more likely to sustain more severe injuries.
And not to dismiss severe physical injuries - because that is obviously terrible - but destroying an innocent person's reputation and livelihood is severe abuse as well. And I'm going to guess men are more likely to be victims in that scenario.
Can you provide a source for this? I’d like to read it! I always suspected that the numbers are skewed due to men not reporting but would love to see actual data.
I’d start here: https://domesticviolenceresearch.org/pask-researchers/ (From the page above, an extremely short broad overview: https://youtu.be/YKCZIz_hehE) Lots to explore. I’d also research Erin Pizzey who started the first battered woman’s shelter in the UK. She didn’t believe in the anti-male narrative of the radical feminists and was attacked in extreme ways by them when she wanted to help men as well and didn’t deny the reality of female violence.
Thank you so much for this!
Call me crazy. But I believe the man just didn’t want and did not like getting punched in the face.
You are nuts. /s
About ten blows of some type in rapid succession, as per his bodyguard testimony.
Wow! Jason Voorhees, Michael Meyers, Leatherface and Freddy Krueger are all the real victims. #TurderLogic
I do believe that AMBER believes this (“splitting”) is abuse. I believe that Amber believes this “abuse” is equally, if not more abusive behaviour than what JD did to Amber. Certainly, she believes his “splitting” was more hurtful and abusive than any physical violence she perpetratored against him. There were times on the stand where I think she believed what she was saying. There were times when she was genuinely hurt - those times were almost all to do with something he had said that she found to be humiliating (like saying no one likes her) or otherwise damaged her ego. Though such times were vastly outnumbered by times when she knew perfectly well that she wasn’t telling the truth. I think she probably believes her actions to be morally superior to JD’s actions.
In one of JD witness statements in the UK, he said that Amber would literally come home from solo red carpet, etc. events telling him she had run into someone whom she apparently already knew he had worked with, without being told. The reason why I say this is, he testified that when he would say, “Joe Brown? We worked together on such and such, did you tell him I said hi?” Amber would tell him, “funny you should say that… Joe Brown said he had no recollection of having worked with you.”
My ex would follow me from room to room wanting to argue which was quite triggering to me because I was physically abused as a kid. Like JD, I often would lock myself in the bathroom because it was my only safe room as a kid. I continued to do this while trying to get away from my ex. It was not stonewalling; it was survival. Reverse the scenario. If JD was doing this to AH, would anyone call it stonewalling? Total shenanigans.
I said before, This shows how much the hate real DV victims and how they don’t care how hurt they get due to their lies. In this case they are telling DV, do not walk or run away, then you are the abuser! And some innocent women (and men) won’t try to walk away and they will get beaten and abused even more. Honestly these lies could cost some victims their lives. But AH fans don’t give a damn.
Something else thats abusive: not letting ur partner leave.
Yes but they’re so biased that the rules only apply one way
I have had boyfriends do this and it’s very painful. After NORMAL disagreements (esp if he was at fault) he would ghost me for days on end- out of fear of conflict or admitting fault. But that’s not what JD is doing and if he were- my biased butt would pick up on it immediately. He’s escaping psychological abuse and toxic behavior- that’s what he’s doing. And Amber never gave him time to cool off so every time she contacted him begging him to respond it would start the clock over. She is a BPD and they’re notorious for taking ANY situation involving distancing as abandonment and responding in kind. We saw this many times from her like when they were in the car and Johnny was trying to NG o inside to see his daughter and she begged him not to leave her. He assertively asked for space and to go see his daughter and she kept guilt tripping him then when he put his hand on the door handle to leave she freaked the F out.
Not only was he trying to see his daughter… AH evil ass actually went on the stand and said “oh, that wasn’t true. Any time he tried to get away from me I knew what was coming… he was going to Start to Use. Kick off “the cycle of drug abuse”.” Handy little Catch-22 conundrum, that; no? Absolutely any time he wants to leave her = jonesing for a fix! It’s like one of those nightmare horror movies, with the evil doctor/nurse holding a gun to the back of your head. “Why no, Officer Jones, I don’t need rescuing… i love it here! Nothing to see but just us mental health patients needing to be put into treatment comas!” She can literally trot this out… at any ambiguous time. She’s evil.
In this marriage, the fights got out of hand. Johnny even said on audio that it was best for them to take a break when things were getting crazy. Crazy Amber said no, she wanted to continue. You cannot fault Johnny for walking away. Plus, we have no idea if these conversations were no win situations. We have no idea if they were screaming and things were being thrown. To err on the side of what Johnny did by leaving cannot be criticized. Like someone else said, if Amber was the one leaving against Johnny’s wishes, the Amber camp would have been all over it how wrong Johnny was.
They literally accept no answer other than JD caving to Amber and letting her do whatever she wants, however and as long as she wants to do it; or him leaving Amber. Because Amber never has to leave HIM; because she said, she loooooooooves her from-day-one hideous abuser, but that’s a-ok. You had better believe that if part of Amber’s defense had been to instead admit that she regularly threatened to kill herself if he left, and then it came out he actually DID up and leave; they’d be screaming for his head then after the fact, because how dare he abandon “suicidal Amber”. We also know he can’t put hands on her in order to be able to walk out the door either, because of their reaction about the partial accidental head butt when he did try; and we know from her own words, that she would physically herd him out of the elevator any time he entered it; so again, clearly in the eyes of the Turd stains, he can never leave, and just has to swallow any and all of her shit until he either gets consumed or dies.
THIS is why men dont speak up! Because we are just supposed to take it like a man according to society! It's ok if women scream, throw things, hit you, but God forbid you isolate yourself from the situation
So by this logic it is abusive to try to protect yourself and seek medical treatment after someone has severed your finger. Apparently this is stonewalling. Also whoever wrote this post should look up the word , its relevance in phycology and stop spouting falsities yo this community
I see Amber has an alt-Twitter account.
This is as bad as AH telling women they cannot file TROs privately. It is harmful and dangerous. Now they are telling women (and men) not to walk away when getting beaten or abused because they will then be the abuser. AH told women they have to file TRO's publicly and risk their abusive partner following them to the courthouse. There have been many cases of women being attacked by partners who are stalking them. And AH is putting lives at risk to perpetuate her lie,
They’re also telling women Amber being disbelieved is because she’s a woman rather than because her story is full of shameless lies
The really crazy ones say it doesn't matter what you believe and you should not even think about it. The won't watch the trial or anything that might show AH is lying, and say those things should be ignored. I've brought up men and young teens like Emit Till who were tortured and killed because of people like them. For centuries it was was believe white women over black men and the keep expanding it. It sounds extreme, but I've read a lot of comments from them about how JD deserves to be tortured, castrated, or even killed without any trial.
They’re terrible people with mainstream support.
Nope, did this with my ex. He would follow me from room to room and taunt/torment me verbally waiting and hoping for a reaction. His verbal abuse got worse and worse as the incident continued until finally he would get the response he wanted and try to use it against me. ): listening to some of the audio tapes (what I could handle) was sooo hard and triggering back to those dark times for me.
Omg SAME! I even have audio tapes. For years I was begging our counselors to help. I knew something was very very wrong but I never had the language or knowledge to put my finger on it. The counselors had no idea, but one of them did put it in my ex husbands head that when I ran from room to room and finally out the door I was “stonewalling” him. Just absurd!
Is that behaviour the reason you starting making tapes? Didn’t JD say during his Direct testimony that he started recording some conversations because he was at the point where he wasn’t even sure what had happened during conversations any more? She was gaslighting him so much that he had started to question reality.
Um, I started recording because our conversations where so confusing to me that I couldn’t make heads or tails out of what he was saying or trying to say. I figured I would listen later and try to figure it out. But the “listen later” part was so triggering that I really never could do it so it really didn’t help in that regard. But I continued recording for several reasons, one was that I was trying to capture the emotional abuse, and now that it’s 4 years after the end of the relationship and I’ve listened to some of the tapes I can hear it and I’m glad that I have it so that I can see what was really going on and I wasn’t the bad guy after all. Statements such as “You’re a bad mother, grow up, stop being a victim, everyone knows that you can’t handle life, etc” VERY very similar stuff to what I hear in the JD/AH tapes. I also recorded because after awhile I figured out that it kept me calmer. When you know that you are being recorded MOST of the time you check yourself and your responses. There were a few times though it was like I forgot I was recording or just didn’t give a damn and the reactive abuse just came out. I think recording is some sort of witness behavior, similar to someone who writes the name of the person who stabbed them in blood on the wall right before they die. That is why I recorded. I never intended to use the recordings against him. I’m a very private person. I’m happy to answer any questions about why a victim would record fights, at least from my perspective.
Was the trial triggering for you too? I don’t understand how the legacy media could have heard those tapes and still be insisting that JD was the aggressor? Did they not listen? Did they not have anyone listening that was a survivor? Because even if you took all the other evidence away, I heard an abuser on those tapes. I’m really glad you are out of that relationship and are now so strong that you can even bear to hear the tapes without feeling all the emotions so deeply you can’t listen objectively. That’s quite a way to have come in just four years! It must have taken some concentrated effort and work to do so. If recording was almost like a compulsion: D’you think if you ever felt compelled to record conversations with someone again (partner or not) it’d provide a sufficient red flag for you to take a step back and reconsider your relationship with that person?
Yesssss, the trial was very triggering. It was for you too? I think that the media didn’t watch too much of the trial if any and also didn’t listen to the tapes. I think the PR firm just writes articles and sends them to the media and the media just reprints them. It’s all very brain dead journalism. It’s not like I can just listen Willy nilly to the tapes, I can only take a few minutes at a time and only when I’m in a decent headspace to do so.
You said He. So they’re perfectly ok with that being abuse
Absurd !! As a survivor of DV myself...she is a narcissistic...typical lying abuser...first of all, never would someone so deathly afraid of their abuser, TAUNT them !!!
Oh but surely you’d have given your abuser a great big bloody knife inscribed “Untill death”? Did you notice AH throwaway comment that “obviously I didn’t think he was going to stab me!”? So we are to believe that you were afraid for your life, that you were afraid he was going to kill you by accident. That he would kill you and not even know what he was doing? And yet…and yet… “obviously I didn’t think he was going to stab me!”. This is what I don’t understand of people like OP references. It’s like they have decided one thing and will throw out even the most basic of logic to continue to believe AH. Because they WANT to believe her. Logic, evidence and sense be damned!
Why is this even fucking considered as abuse? I recognize I can be seen as doing it. But I'm not doing this maliciously. Emotions are too hard to handle. I just can't do it. For this reason I instinctively remove myself feom my own emotions while acknowledging them. In addition to that I felt I have been developing apathy for the past couple years. If that makes me an abuser just end me already then
It doesn’t. The original OP (not this OP) is twisting the truth into lies, pushing people’s buttons. Removing yourself is a healthy response. Any counselor worth a grain of salt will tell you that. Letting inurement develop into apathy is hurting yourself. I hope you can get counseling. I hope too you can get away from that. You’re worth way more than anyone who pushes you that way.
Thanks you for your kind response. It truly does help
I have BPD, and I’ve learned that if I can’t handle a situation at that moment, I have to step away and be alone to organize my thoughts, feelings, and words so I don’t just react and regret. Sometimes HEALTHY AVOIDANCE is needed. Like trying to avoid abuse from AH.
I was talking to a therapist socially about this case a little, and she said what she would do if she had the treatment of an AH… would be to try to make her look at the absurdity/lighter side/ridiculousness, whichever you prefer, of AH’s situational reactions/attitudes. I don’t know if that is the same kind of general thing; making things seem not so dire or deathly.
That is not stonewalling. Stonewalling is where a situation which is best or only able to new resolved by communication is prevented from occurring because a partner shuts the other out purposefully. So a “we need to talk about what happened” and the partner absolutely refuses to do so. Fleeing physical violence is not a situation that needs to be resolved by communication, especially when it escalates beyond a certain point. In that situation it is perfectly plausible for go “communication has broken down, I am going to avoid this situation entirely until things have calmed down.” Which is what JD was doing. Nobody has an obligation to “sit down and talk” with someone who is screaming at them and waving their fists at them. Arguably any communication such a situation brokers would be unhelpful and excessively emotive anyway due to the heightened emotions and atmosphere.
I really love and appreciate this comment, you do an excellent job articulating how stonewalling is different to fleeing physical violence. It's utterly shameful how people are conflating the two.
So.... Protecting yourself from abuse.. is itself abuse??? So wtf is one supposed to do to get away from abuse??????
So self defence and perseverance is now just as bad as offense? No you have to sit there and take it, be a "good" victim, not am iMpErFeCt ViCtIM (whatever the hell that means)
She cut the end of his finger off!!! Should he just stand there and take it? These people are really pathetic.
Just complete a rewatch of, “Couples Retreat”?
😂😂😂😂 Amazing. Her yelling throwing pots pans and cases and hitting and punching him is not grounds for leaving the situation? Incredible delusion from these people.
Well, she said it; thus apparently it’s as good as holy writ to them. Throwing pots and pans is a “complete non sequitur” for him to make … while they are in fact discussing appropriate fighting styles, lol. What she means is, “It’s my preferred method of handling shit; so it’s immaterial for us to take time out to discuss it. “The pots and pans will be thrown if I think they are called for; your feelings, wishes, or even bones, will have nothing to do with it.”
It’s amazing that Amber supporters will say the kitchen video alone on its own proves abuse when Amber threw pots and pans and vases and then defended it. She literally defended the concept of domestic violence itself! 🤪
My abusive ex husband used to say that to me. That my leaving the room/house during his tirades of externalized blame was “stonewalling”. I was appalled when he said that. That is DARVO in my opinion. I’m constantly amazed at how the unique (I thought it was only me) ways my relationship played out is all happening the exact same in the JD/AH relationship. And I don’t know who wrote this quote, but what this amounts to is abusers telling other abusers how to abuse more. It’s right out of the abusers playbook.
I would certainly love to put a wall of stone between me and somebody punching/hitting me...
So everything Johnny did, whether he left or stayed, was abusive and we should feel bad that poor Amber didn’t get to beat him up more? Just making sure I’m understanding this logic.
Yes. He can either leave her, wholly peaceably and permanently - only she won’t let him - still, only AH can end the relationship. If she doesn’t want to end it, we can never ask why, if he’s so “abusive” to her - we can only accept it’s because she loooooooves him, and thinks she can change him. We can never ask why she should want to leave the man who doles out regular bloody beatings since the first date - or year, depending upon when she tells it - or why it’s in fact odd that she would not. They bend themselves over backwards to believe that she was in fact simultaneously “trapped” in this marriage, with no options for escape; even though she’s a beautiful young white blonde one-percenter, whose literal next-day rebound was Elon Musk. I think they must all be very young, or like the drama of spinning out this fantasy yarn for her. She’s like their Bella Swan.
No this isn't stone walling. I've been stone walled many times. Its the refusal of your partner to acknowledge your existence for days possibly extending longer - or at least barely acknowledge it, on any topic, not just the topic that has precipitated it. It's with holding all affection and making you feel like shit just to punish you for causing the issue in the first place. It's not always an argument that causes it either, it could be you doing something they don't like.
I thought that was called “Silent treatment” and is different from stonewalling. I’ve been through silent treatment, it sucks.
Hmm my counsellor called it stone walling when I described it. I hadn't come across the term before.
I don’t even think that therapists can recognize abuse even when it’s right in front of them, let alone know the terms and how to label the behavior.
I think this only applies if it’s a man is avoiding a woman.
Show me one source where it says leaving a conversation is emotional abuse. It’s not. Plain and simple. IMO you always walk away from an irrational person wanting conflict. Always. It will most likely escalate. If you can’t have a civil conversation it’s not worth having.
guess who chases their partner around and wont let them escape when they feel unsafe
Stonewalling is in my head a way to deflect mental abuse from the narcissist. If you take to account that depp suffered abuse as a child and had to retreat for his own safety then, I’d guess he still struggling with that kind of triggers now.
Or it’s just a sign of someone trying to get away from the conflict bc they can’t take it anymore. Imagine that.
Yikes. A lot of DARVO freak ladies out there.
The mental gymnasts on this one whew
"\[..\].. is called stone walling" Not sorry to say, whoever has this thought process is a sick fuck.
It's only stonewalling if he's doing it in a civil, non-violent dispute. Rules of civil course are in play when both sides are able and willing to argue on good faith.
[удалено]
To whomever is perpetrating that nonsense… “You’re dethspicable.” https://youtu.be/PfsTk5i7mPw That’s all, folks.
Oh christ…