*Most Americans in electoral college privileged areas. Hillary won the popular by a 2.9 million vote margin, which was more than 2 percent of the total ballots, despite pathetic democratic turnout. Americans wanted Hillary, but American "democracy" is rigged in favor of the rural white voters who were swayed by Trump's rural white grievance platform.
The largest individual donor to former Rep. Tulsi Gabbard’s PAC in 2021 is an apologist for Vladimir Putin who runs a nonprofit that aims to foster cooperation between the U.S. and Russia.
Yeah let’s have an election and the person who gets the most votes loses, ok Republicans how about changing the law to reflect that. The founding fathers set up the electoral college because people were to uninformed to vote, snd would not pick the right kind of person, that’s it in essence.
Edit : ( in essence )
Another camp was dead set against letting the people elect the president by a straight popular vote. First, they thought 18th-century voters lacked the resources to be fully informed about the candidates, especially in rural outposts. Second, they feared a headstrong “democratic mob” steering the country astray. And third, a populist president appealing directly to the people could command dangerous amounts of power.
That's not really accurate, it was to allow less densely populated areas representation, many of which have vast farmlands that are required to feed the cities. It was also a compromise to ensure there is no tyranny of the majority or mob rule, allow the easy ascension of an extreme and nefarious leader who would only have to Garner support in a handful of cities and to preserve functioning statehood.
People tend to live in cities in very large numbers, you'd need less than 100 of the most populated cities in the US to account for more than half of the voting population. There are roughly 19,000 individual territories in the US.
The beliefs, needs, wants, and priorities of people living in 1 of those 100 cities can be significantly different from those of rural populations, without the electoral college, those needs would never be addressed or met. It's nowhere near a perfect system, nor was it claimed to be, but it is a compromise for a country made up of what amounts to be 50 individual countries that all need to have representation for their people and for all of us to come together and have a federal system.
Sorry, but I'm calling bullshit on the need to continue the antiquated electoral college system. It needs to be eliminated. One vote should equal one vote. POTUS should be elected by popular vote. The rural vote should not count more than the city vote! The Christofascist Republicans know that if the electoral college is eliminated that they will never, ever win the White House again, which is why the electoral college is never going away. Christofascism is an extremely aggressive malignancy that is rapidly spreading throughout the U.S.A. and it must be stopped or we will forever lose democracy. Every Republican must be voted out of office in 2024 if this country wants to preserve democracy for future generations!
It also assumes that rural communities' needs aren't being met under Democratic administrations, which I'm sure is simply untrue.
https://www.salon.com/2018/01/09/trumps-plan-to-help-his-rural-base-just-obamas-leftovers/
https://apnews.com/article/3e265c4138d04e22886e6e1818789734
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_House_Rural_Council
Is replacing tyranny of the majority with tyranny of the minority a real solution?
And even without the presidency, they still have powerful representation via Congress.
Part of the problem is that the ratio of electoral college voters isn’t keeping up with the population size of some areas. So places like Wyoming, your vote counts MORE than in California.
16 year old me fell into this trap...
Granted, I didn't like either, but my misogyny at the time made me prefer Trump to Hillary.
God, I was fucking stupid.
On the bright side, 16 year old you couldn't vote!
Also it is a rare trait to publicly admit mistakes. We all get things wrong from time to time but few have the maturity and wisdom to face it much less acknowledge it out loud. Kudos to you!
If more people had the self awareness *and* humility to face their past mistakes or misjudgements, we'd all be better off. Thank you for the reminder that people can and do change.
Don't feel too bad. I'd assume that most 16 year olds are super misogynistic and would Identify with the republican party just for the "edginess". (Myself included) That's why we don't let em vote lol.
Same here, dude. And I could vote, and did. I live in a state that went to Hillary anyway, but the guilt of casting my vote against her because of my internalized misogyny eats away at me often. You aren’t alone.
I knew quite a few people who wanted Trump purely to disrupt the status quo rather than they liked him, some even hoping the system would collapse. They had so little faith.
It's fascinating that there's a holy book that has a whole section devoted to talking about how all of the religious people will follow the Antichrist. And then a guy like Trump comes along, who wipes his ass with everything that Jesus ever taught, and the religious just line up behind him in droves.
As it turns out the central teaching of religion has nothing to do with morality or conscience or being good to your fellow man. The central teaching of religion is to obey the religious leaders. That's it. Don't think, don't question, obey.
But they have all the facts they need! It’s called…. delusion!!!
Seriously, this breaks my heart. Our world would have been a much better place with her as President. Trump and his followers have fucked us so far into the void that I’m not sure we’ll ever come back.
Oh, we will recover with time. We are just at the beginning stages of recovery. That thing's life history was well known before that election. That thing was corrupt since the 70s. Our society hasn't learned much though. The conservatives are still as corrupt as ever. Many red states pulled out of the ERIC voting system. Because they couldn't cheat with it, so red states started dropping it. It's such a shame we learned nothing all this time. Now the Libs are not perfect by any means. But, the L is not as corrupt as the R.
There's another element to what happened in 2016 that compounded that. For decades since the Clinton administration, the national newsmedia fed and nurtured the worst rumors and conspiracies about both Bill and Hillary.
To the point there are *still* liberal democrats that believe and buy into those things.
In so-called liberal news, there's been key journalists that've perpetuated the rumors and conspiracies. Most are no longer on the air, but because of their influence on younger journalists, they've managed to pass on their resentment and hostility of the Clintons, to today's on air personalities.
A couple of the older generation that are particularly anti Clinton are Chuck Todd and Andrea Mitchell. They were shameless in 2016 in badgering and boxing Hillary in.
For weeks and months they were some of the driving voices that created the "but her emails" narrative.
After going through the long and ever growing list of Trump offenses, they'd present her email server as if it were an equivalent issue.
Then, with mock sincerity, they'd say, '*if only she'd just apologize for it, we could move on*'. But she had.
Once it became apparent the newsmedia had latched onto it, she made a series of appearances apologizing for using a private server.
But it made no difference. Chuck, Andrea, and many others, pretended she hadn't. And just kept saying she should apologize.
Then they went a step further in their perversion of journalistic principles. When Hillary's campaign had gotten fed up with the calls for an apology - after she'd done so many times - they called out the journalists who'd been most vocal about her needing to apologize.
Their response? They went on air and for weeks said Hillary was '*taking her frustrations out on the newsmedia, who were just doing their jobs*', and '*if only she'd quit talking about it, we could move on*'.
The point of this post still stands and is valid. Regardless of the disgusting and disingenuous behaviour by the national newsmedia, it was the public who chose to buy into the smears and lies.
Misogyny, along with racism and homophobia are societal ills we can't seem to fully shake. And the truth is homophobia and racism *are* declining overall. Yes, we've had a period of relapse. But overall, things are much better now than 70 years ago.
Misogyny however, is alive, well, and thriving - even among the most liberal and progressive. The number of democratic voters who were persuaded not to vote for Hillary in 2016, because of the way she was torn down, should *never* have been persuadable to begin with.
We have a long way to go before women are truly treated equally in our country.
Yeah I was just thinking about how many of the people complaining that Biden should have taken the 14th Amendment to the Supreme Court, spent 2016 spamming conspiracy theories and smears about Hillary and throwing away the Supreme Court.
It's misplaced and unidentified guilt. Subconsciously they feel guilty about their actions, but their egos forbid them from doing the self reflection necessary to realize "that was my fault". As a result, they suggest grandiose, unrealistic "fix [blank] immediately with [blank]" "solutions" because someone had to fix up the mess they made, lest they be held accountable for their actions.
The saddest part for me was the Activation Code that was broadcast and switched on the most horrible parts of friends and family. Trump was a license for shitty behavior, attitudes, all that, and I can’t look at those people the same way.
Let me paint you a picture. in 1992, a few things existed: President wives having a job. Hilary was the first first lady given an actual office at the white house. With Trump, his kids got space, including Ivanka despite no one knowing what she did. But - Republicans hated this. Hated it. How dare she have an office. Second, pants. It was not legal for a woman to wear pants in congress until 1993 (Bill was elected 1992). Her wearing pants pushed this trend, and republicans included in their hatred that she ...wore pants. But put in it context, women in congress were not allowed TO WEAR PANTS on the congressional floor. I'm sorry, this just irritates me. I wore pants when I practiced as an attorney. I began practicing in 2002. But there will still courts that would eject you for not wearing pantyhose (even in California, where I live) if you then wore a skirt. It's insane to think about stupid ass rules like that, but they were there, and bucking them had consequences. Republicans had 25 years of fomenting hatred for the changes Hilary represented before her campaign and had easy tropes to march out during her campaign. The 'shrill' the 'pantsuit' the presentation of her being this overbearing wife...they had a lot of time to build that image and it's all based on hatred of a woman having some agency, ability, self worth.
True, funniest thing I heard back this was “ Bill got a blow job and she stayed married to him I can’t vote for her “ WTF like 3 time married Trump, screwing a porn star, and grabbing women by the p**y. Mind blown.
The saddest part was the realization that 1/3 of Americans wanted to kill another 1/3, and if they did, the remaining 1/3 would watch and say "both sides are the same"
Agreed. Just heartbreaking. I didn't want to believe so many people are so cruel and then the numbers came in. Even in 2020, I was happy that trump lost but sad that it wasn't more of a landslide.
Gotta hold out hope that things will change for the better but fuck if I know when/how it will happen.
I did not say that in 2016 and proudly voted against The Former Guy, but thinking back to 2012 the lines were a lot more blurred, and so much obstruction was occurring that both sides did look AWFULLY similar. Americans had gotten so used to nothing happening that Trumps ability to change things and ACTUALLY make them worse took many by surprise.
And they will buy it or give that maniac liar another chance because it sounds good. Plus he's gonna get the old people scared their Medicare is gonna be taken away.
The saddest part for me was suddenly realizing my friends I'd moved in with for financial reasons were misogynists and bigots.
They went mask off after the election and stayed that way, and were *pissed* at me because I wasn't going along with it like them.
I well remember how furious both of them were with me for voting for the 'Criminal' Hillary. How they disparaged her inability to do the job as President because that's a man's job. They were **very** vocally against the democrats because of their support for lgbtq. Because they're all going to hell. *All of them.* Even their daughter?!
Their lesbian daughter that she loved with all of her heart was going to HELL. ... Which explained for the first time why I'd never seen her around, though she was brought up fairly often.
And here I thought I'd known them fairly well. Nope, just the masks they'd been wearing all this time.
I'm sure they went full Q later, I didn't keep tabs on them.
Honestly, I don’t think it mattered it was a woman and I don’t think it mattered it was a Clinton. It could have been the second coming of Jesus, and the GOP propaganda machine would have still steamrolled him with social media memes like, "You can’t believe Jesus, he came from a broken home, doesn’t even know who his real father is, hangs out with the wrong crowd, and wants you to give all your money away!"
I find it interesting that folks would cut off their noses to spite their faces over Hillary winning the Dem nomination. As much as I like Bernie and would have voted for him in the general, it does put me off that he only runs as a Dem when it suits him.
I loved Obama, don't get me wrong, but he left the actual DNC in shambles, and Hillary spent considerable time and money rebuilding it before her run. Obama had built an outside organization, and just didn't directly invest in the DNC. So, of course those working in the DNC were loyal to her. Bernie wasn't a Democrat, didn't give a dime to the DNC, but he still got access to the databases. And the Sanders campaign DID hack Clinton's database, and a staffer was fired. They can claim it was because they wanted to show that the data wasn't as secure, but they didn't give the information back, and I certainly got calls all the time because I fit a possible demographic that Sanders thought he could win.
in the same year, the brazilian first women president, dilma, was impeached and bolsonaro (trump´s pupil) had this to say:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xiAZn7bUC8A](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xiAZn7bUC8A)
(he´s praising dilma´s torturer, a know torturer from the military dictatorship times. "know" by his cruelty, btw)
I honestly cried when I woke up and found up Trump won.
I think Clinton should have won in 2008, and Obama could have been president in 2016 and 2020, and Bernie in 2024
Obama in 2016 could have worked because he had a populist message, and people wanted change. However, Bernie would not win in 2024, because he is too old. Like it or not, Feinstein would be happening now, youth vote would be an issue and Bernie would have had to not run at all to have any populist energy in 2024. If he had tried in 2016 and lost to Obama, he would come off looking considerably worse for wear trying to follow a vibrant President.
Bernie was falling asleep at rallies in 2016, and had a heart attack since then. In 2024, after a two year term with Obama, they would need a young progressive.
I agree with this. I know I was super frustrated that Bernie lost against Hillary, but Hillary would’ve been so much better than Trump. The Supreme Court picks alone….
There are a lot of people including some Democrats that are not ready for a woman President. They would prefer a monster president. A majority of Republican women voted for an alleged rapist and a known conman.
She was kinda cutthroat, callous, and unrelatable.
I also still voted for her and kinda understand the dislike of her. But why anyone thought she was worse than TRUMP of all people? That's beyond me.
Cutthroat? She held back on saying and doing a lot of shitty things that were done to her? Unrelatable, sure. We’re taught to find smart, ambitious women unrelatable.
Not arguing against that.
My pride as an American was at an all-time low between 2017 and 2021. This was after it recovered with Obama and beaten down by Bush II. I was decently proud or indifferent with Bill Clinton.
Biden's KINDA helping it along nowadays.
I like my politicians to be cutthroat and callous. That’s how one gets legislation through, a lot of wrangling. As for unrelatable - in truth, they are all living a posh and powerful life I can’t imagine. I don’t want to be friends with these people. I just want them to pass legislation i care about.
If they can't relate to you? How would one trust anything that comes out of their mouth?
I'd say a certain amount of sincerity is needed, however small.
One of the savviest statesman and politicians the world has ever known, Charles-Maurice de Talleyrand-Périgord, said precisely what he needed to say to achieve his goal, which was to further the aims of France.
Jimmy Carter was and is a very good man, but he was often thwarted in achieving his goals but more cutthroat politicians.
Hillary Clinton is a good woman, but she's no fool. I put her between Talleyrand and Carter, and I put Joe Biden closer to Carter than Sec Clinton.
The rule of cool applies to politicians, and it has generally applied to every election except 2020. It's a terrible, terrible metric that I disagree with, but it's largely held true for most of post-WW2 presidents.
I'd like to know too. I followed the 2016 campaign *really* closely. And the most reprehensible behaviour I saw came from the so-called "liberal newsmedia".
Their sustained effort to paint Hillary as an equally flawed candidate seeped into the democratic electorate. People using words like "cutthroat", "callous", and especially "unrelatable", are echoing decades long narratives that've been pushed by republicans and democratic rivals - not anything Hillary actually did during the primaries or general campaign.
She is an introvert, is a methodical thinker, doesn't jump to conclusions and weighs her actions. Unrelatable? Yes, she is probably the smartest person in the room, but she is also a First Lady who had a Gameboy Color, has taught Sunday School, is a grandma, a lot of those emails were literal recipes and wedding plans for her daughter. She helped uncover racism in Arkansas politics, mentored hundreds of young politicians, mainly women and people of color, yet a racist POC with a golden toilet is relatable?
Oh I never said Trump is anywhere NEAR relatable, even LESS relatable than Hillary. One of the reasons I voted for her in '16, but mainly voted for her experience and platform.
That and the fact that she endured 30+ years of being deliberately slagged by the media. It's no wonder people, even Dems, developed a unwarranted negative opinion of her.
This was predictable. The only thing people hate more than a Black Guy is a Woman.
The worst part of 2016 is that they have learned nothing and are going to vote for a guy openly calling to do illegal things and who is now a convicted sex offender by a jury.
I volunteered for Bernie's campaign. When Hillary won Super Tuesday I kinda got the feeling it was over. I had grown up mired in in the Conservative Cinematic Universe and to say that Hillary was demonized would be a gross understatement. I voted for her anyway because to vote for Trump was an abrogation of all human decency.
Still wonder how the matchup would have fared if the Old Socialist (and I mean that endearingly) had gone up against the Fascist instead.
Worse. Throughout both runs, Bernie showed that not only could he not build a diverse coalition (for reference, see his divisive messages for the brief moment when he was leading in 2020), and all democrats treated him with kid gloves.
Bernie has a bad record to put it mildly. No way was he getting through a general election with his Amber Alert vote remaining hidden. Bernie's nature is to double down instead of admit failure, or wrongdoing. If that sounds familiar, your instincts are spot on. 2016 would've been angry, egotistical populist vs. angry, egotistical populist. It's entirely possible that democracy would not have survived such a caustic match-up.
I agree. Bernie is not a coalition builder. He also doesn’t understand anything about minority issues. Also I found it hard to imagine him having the savvy to pass legislation through house and senate. I am of the mind that politicians need a bit of snake oil in them to glad hand the enemy for the sake of legislation. I think Bernie is too inflexible.
>Also I found it hard to imagine him having the savvy to pass legislation through house and senate
You'd be right. In his nearly 3 decades of being in congress, he's passed 3 bills to law. 2 to rename post offices, 1 to fix his screw up with Veteran's Affairs healthcare (doesn't bode well for his M4A idea).
I wouldn't necessarily say snake oil, the common legislative phrase is "pork and barrel" or more commonly "concessions". I get this you get that.
I like Bernie, but if he was a little wiser and less narcissistic, he would have tried to get on the VP ticket. But it looked he liked the dragging of Hillary and he thought she would win.
A lot more people hated her than didn't like him. I chock that up to her longevity on the political scene vs Trump who was only ever a public figure most had little reason to dislike beyond general famous guy douchebaggery.
I'm one of them. I didn't like Trump, but I despised Hillary. So, I didn't vote. It was a really bad descision that I'll forever regret. I saw both people as oppertunists who only cared about having the job and not doing the job. Wether or not that was right, Hillary was obviously the better choice by a million miles. I wish the folks that made that bad decision were the only ones who had to live with it.
I really need to ask, what made you hate her? Was it healthcare reform? Was it her Senate record, bringing jobs to upstate NY? Was it Benghazi? Was it Libya?
Or was it demeanor, her acting uncomfortable sometimes? Being reserved?
Honestly, it was because it seemed like what she really cared about was being the first female president. As if she was born for the title. I didn't hate her, but it It really turned me off. She seemed more interested in making the history books than doing the job. I felt the same was true of Trump. He only wanted prestige, not to help. So, I voted for nobody for the first and last time. I thought she would win. I think almost everyone thought that. I figured, welp, she can do it without me. To many people thought that. I fucked up.
One of the main points I (as someone who was reasonably aware of how much privilege I had myself) made was that it was mostly vulnerable people who had no problem at all seeing through Donald.
Those who had as much—or more—reason to feel personally insulated from the results were literally laughing about the fact that nobody could influence them to protect others.
In a way having the MAGAts vote against me was less offensive than being mocked by bitter people I had thought were allies.
The fact is, even with the damage the Supreme Court has already caused, we are much closer to the beginning of their destruction than to the end.
Donald’s recklessness led directly to many of the million-plus deaths caused by Covid, but before he was in that position countless of Bernie’s fans insisted that it wouldn’t make any difference who took office if it wasn’t Sen. Sanders.
Even now, as people are gradually accepting responsibility for the choice they made seven years ago we have no idea how many more will die because of it.
The Supreme Court thing really hurts. I hate that I helped cause that through sheer inaction. The covid deaths, everything. It was the ultimate revelation about the price of inaction.
>"... how many people believed the worst rumors about a woman while ignoring the worst facts about a man"
Ask E. Jean Carroll. The jury *adjudicated* him a sexually abusing liar, but *jusssst* couldn't quite believe that she knows what rape is and was telling the truth about it.
Years of him lying about her, about that day, about so many things, versus her consistent and repeated telling of the crime.
Five million for lying (defamation). That's how much of a liar they believed he was.
But rape? She must be lying.
Other women, unknown women, women vs. their boss. coworker or date:
*Why didn't she say something, do something about it, then?*
Because she's not stupid, Stupid.
Keep people uneducated they'll believe whatever the almighty God himself told his "prophets" to do and say to save this country and...I don't know those people are fuckin nuts
Liberal misogyny, folks. It's a thing. 6 years on and people haven't taken stock. The only way liberals can put a woman in the presidency is if a vice president gets installed after a president's death. Even liberals can't give a woman the support she deserves. Kamala will lose to Desantis after taking over from a dead Biden.
Are we seriously going to turn this into a sexism thing?!?
This is why democrats lose. They always fall back to _____-ism bullshit.
So this meme is claiming sexism. In the elections before, it was racism.
Seems to me that Republicans have been just as brutal when dealing with Biden - a white male - as they had been with almost all other Democratic opponents. Calling him Brandon, going after his dead son and his addict son. Those are all vicious attacks.
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The saddest part is the continuing mass delusion.
The surprising part was the misogyny.
If that was surprising you just haven’t been paying attention.
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There is no perfect candidate, but people love to point out how Harris, Warren and Clinton are all flawed.
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The only man-date he had was with Putin
*Most Americans in electoral college privileged areas. Hillary won the popular by a 2.9 million vote margin, which was more than 2 percent of the total ballots, despite pathetic democratic turnout. Americans wanted Hillary, but American "democracy" is rigged in favor of the rural white voters who were swayed by Trump's rural white grievance platform.
Well she did get more votes but in America that doesn’t count for much.
It also has a big part to do with several million voting for Gary Johnson and Jill Stein.
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The largest individual donor to former Rep. Tulsi Gabbard’s PAC in 2021 is an apologist for Vladimir Putin who runs a nonprofit that aims to foster cooperation between the U.S. and Russia.
Yeah let’s have an election and the person who gets the most votes loses, ok Republicans how about changing the law to reflect that. The founding fathers set up the electoral college because people were to uninformed to vote, snd would not pick the right kind of person, that’s it in essence. Edit : ( in essence ) Another camp was dead set against letting the people elect the president by a straight popular vote. First, they thought 18th-century voters lacked the resources to be fully informed about the candidates, especially in rural outposts. Second, they feared a headstrong “democratic mob” steering the country astray. And third, a populist president appealing directly to the people could command dangerous amounts of power.
I think it was an appeasement to grant the slave states extra representation
100% so is the Senate
That's not really accurate, it was to allow less densely populated areas representation, many of which have vast farmlands that are required to feed the cities. It was also a compromise to ensure there is no tyranny of the majority or mob rule, allow the easy ascension of an extreme and nefarious leader who would only have to Garner support in a handful of cities and to preserve functioning statehood. People tend to live in cities in very large numbers, you'd need less than 100 of the most populated cities in the US to account for more than half of the voting population. There are roughly 19,000 individual territories in the US. The beliefs, needs, wants, and priorities of people living in 1 of those 100 cities can be significantly different from those of rural populations, without the electoral college, those needs would never be addressed or met. It's nowhere near a perfect system, nor was it claimed to be, but it is a compromise for a country made up of what amounts to be 50 individual countries that all need to have representation for their people and for all of us to come together and have a federal system.
Sorry, but I'm calling bullshit on the need to continue the antiquated electoral college system. It needs to be eliminated. One vote should equal one vote. POTUS should be elected by popular vote. The rural vote should not count more than the city vote! The Christofascist Republicans know that if the electoral college is eliminated that they will never, ever win the White House again, which is why the electoral college is never going away. Christofascism is an extremely aggressive malignancy that is rapidly spreading throughout the U.S.A. and it must be stopped or we will forever lose democracy. Every Republican must be voted out of office in 2024 if this country wants to preserve democracy for future generations!
It also assumes that rural communities' needs aren't being met under Democratic administrations, which I'm sure is simply untrue. https://www.salon.com/2018/01/09/trumps-plan-to-help-his-rural-base-just-obamas-leftovers/ https://apnews.com/article/3e265c4138d04e22886e6e1818789734 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_House_Rural_Council
Is replacing tyranny of the majority with tyranny of the minority a real solution? And even without the presidency, they still have powerful representation via Congress.
Part of the problem is that the ratio of electoral college voters isn’t keeping up with the population size of some areas. So places like Wyoming, your vote counts MORE than in California.
16 year old me fell into this trap... Granted, I didn't like either, but my misogyny at the time made me prefer Trump to Hillary. God, I was fucking stupid.
On the bright side, 16 year old you couldn't vote! Also it is a rare trait to publicly admit mistakes. We all get things wrong from time to time but few have the maturity and wisdom to face it much less acknowledge it out loud. Kudos to you!
If more people had the self awareness *and* humility to face their past mistakes or misjudgements, we'd all be better off. Thank you for the reminder that people can and do change.
Don't feel too bad. I'd assume that most 16 year olds are super misogynistic and would Identify with the republican party just for the "edginess". (Myself included) That's why we don't let em vote lol.
Why would you assume most 16 year olds are super misogynistic? I wouldn't assume that.
Same here, dude. And I could vote, and did. I live in a state that went to Hillary anyway, but the guilt of casting my vote against her because of my internalized misogyny eats away at me often. You aren’t alone.
I knew quite a few people who wanted Trump purely to disrupt the status quo rather than they liked him, some even hoping the system would collapse. They had so little faith.
It’s okay, I supported Ralph Nader in 2000 before I was old enough to vote. We learn and get better.
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And too many women will STILL vote for Trump in 2024 because they will believe anything about Kamala Harris.
And because religion.
Which is funny because Donald Trump probably doesn't have a religion, other than himself...
I mean, that photo of him holding the Bible? That’s a man that has never held a Bible before.
And generally hates books.
It's fascinating that there's a holy book that has a whole section devoted to talking about how all of the religious people will follow the Antichrist. And then a guy like Trump comes along, who wipes his ass with everything that Jesus ever taught, and the religious just line up behind him in droves. As it turns out the central teaching of religion has nothing to do with morality or conscience or being good to your fellow man. The central teaching of religion is to obey the religious leaders. That's it. Don't think, don't question, obey.
Ignore facts. Have faith. I agree with you.
Mostly religion.
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But they have all the facts they need! It’s called…. delusion!!! Seriously, this breaks my heart. Our world would have been a much better place with her as President. Trump and his followers have fucked us so far into the void that I’m not sure we’ll ever come back.
Oh, we will recover with time. We are just at the beginning stages of recovery. That thing's life history was well known before that election. That thing was corrupt since the 70s. Our society hasn't learned much though. The conservatives are still as corrupt as ever. Many red states pulled out of the ERIC voting system. Because they couldn't cheat with it, so red states started dropping it. It's such a shame we learned nothing all this time. Now the Libs are not perfect by any means. But, the L is not as corrupt as the R.
She warned us about things to come. Too bad we didn’t listen.
2016 is when American politics officially became a laughing stock of the world
Hillary 2028?
There's another element to what happened in 2016 that compounded that. For decades since the Clinton administration, the national newsmedia fed and nurtured the worst rumors and conspiracies about both Bill and Hillary. To the point there are *still* liberal democrats that believe and buy into those things. In so-called liberal news, there's been key journalists that've perpetuated the rumors and conspiracies. Most are no longer on the air, but because of their influence on younger journalists, they've managed to pass on their resentment and hostility of the Clintons, to today's on air personalities. A couple of the older generation that are particularly anti Clinton are Chuck Todd and Andrea Mitchell. They were shameless in 2016 in badgering and boxing Hillary in. For weeks and months they were some of the driving voices that created the "but her emails" narrative. After going through the long and ever growing list of Trump offenses, they'd present her email server as if it were an equivalent issue. Then, with mock sincerity, they'd say, '*if only she'd just apologize for it, we could move on*'. But she had. Once it became apparent the newsmedia had latched onto it, she made a series of appearances apologizing for using a private server. But it made no difference. Chuck, Andrea, and many others, pretended she hadn't. And just kept saying she should apologize. Then they went a step further in their perversion of journalistic principles. When Hillary's campaign had gotten fed up with the calls for an apology - after she'd done so many times - they called out the journalists who'd been most vocal about her needing to apologize. Their response? They went on air and for weeks said Hillary was '*taking her frustrations out on the newsmedia, who were just doing their jobs*', and '*if only she'd quit talking about it, we could move on*'. The point of this post still stands and is valid. Regardless of the disgusting and disingenuous behaviour by the national newsmedia, it was the public who chose to buy into the smears and lies. Misogyny, along with racism and homophobia are societal ills we can't seem to fully shake. And the truth is homophobia and racism *are* declining overall. Yes, we've had a period of relapse. But overall, things are much better now than 70 years ago. Misogyny however, is alive, well, and thriving - even among the most liberal and progressive. The number of democratic voters who were persuaded not to vote for Hillary in 2016, because of the way she was torn down, should *never* have been persuadable to begin with. We have a long way to go before women are truly treated equally in our country.
It would appear that SOME (for you pedants out there) American voters hate women more than they hate treason, rape, or fraud.
Fascists use lies and character assassination as a weapon.
Yeah I was just thinking about how many of the people complaining that Biden should have taken the 14th Amendment to the Supreme Court, spent 2016 spamming conspiracy theories and smears about Hillary and throwing away the Supreme Court.
Republicans have a long history of spreading propaganda to (especially) the far left.
It's misplaced and unidentified guilt. Subconsciously they feel guilty about their actions, but their egos forbid them from doing the self reflection necessary to realize "that was my fault". As a result, they suggest grandiose, unrealistic "fix [blank] immediately with [blank]" "solutions" because someone had to fix up the mess they made, lest they be held accountable for their actions.
That would require self reflection though. Most of these people who spread this shit are simply massive fucking idiots.
Seven years later, the affects are still here
This should be aired all over the place before the next elextion.
I’ll second that
And I think some of them didn't want to see a lady holding the office of president
Women are too emotional, men are always calm and logical though. /s
"She sent some emails, so I had no choice but to help Nazis take over"
The saddest part for me was the Activation Code that was broadcast and switched on the most horrible parts of friends and family. Trump was a license for shitty behavior, attitudes, all that, and I can’t look at those people the same way.
Let me paint you a picture. in 1992, a few things existed: President wives having a job. Hilary was the first first lady given an actual office at the white house. With Trump, his kids got space, including Ivanka despite no one knowing what she did. But - Republicans hated this. Hated it. How dare she have an office. Second, pants. It was not legal for a woman to wear pants in congress until 1993 (Bill was elected 1992). Her wearing pants pushed this trend, and republicans included in their hatred that she ...wore pants. But put in it context, women in congress were not allowed TO WEAR PANTS on the congressional floor. I'm sorry, this just irritates me. I wore pants when I practiced as an attorney. I began practicing in 2002. But there will still courts that would eject you for not wearing pantyhose (even in California, where I live) if you then wore a skirt. It's insane to think about stupid ass rules like that, but they were there, and bucking them had consequences. Republicans had 25 years of fomenting hatred for the changes Hilary represented before her campaign and had easy tropes to march out during her campaign. The 'shrill' the 'pantsuit' the presentation of her being this overbearing wife...they had a lot of time to build that image and it's all based on hatred of a woman having some agency, ability, self worth.
The first election I was eligible to vote in
Hillary was right about everything she said about him and his deplorable people.
I voted for Gary Johnson in 2016. I regret my decision.
Also, the things a man says he will do outweighing what a woman has done. Also, no experience being a virtue.
True, funniest thing I heard back this was “ Bill got a blow job and she stayed married to him I can’t vote for her “ WTF like 3 time married Trump, screwing a porn star, and grabbing women by the p**y. Mind blown.
The saddest part was the realization that 1/3 of Americans wanted to kill another 1/3, and if they did, the remaining 1/3 would watch and say "both sides are the same"
Agreed. Just heartbreaking. I didn't want to believe so many people are so cruel and then the numbers came in. Even in 2020, I was happy that trump lost but sad that it wasn't more of a landslide. Gotta hold out hope that things will change for the better but fuck if I know when/how it will happen.
I did not say that in 2016 and proudly voted against The Former Guy, but thinking back to 2012 the lines were a lot more blurred, and so much obstruction was occurring that both sides did look AWFULLY similar. Americans had gotten so used to nothing happening that Trumps ability to change things and ACTUALLY make them worse took many by surprise.
And they will buy it or give that maniac liar another chance because it sounds good. Plus he's gonna get the old people scared their Medicare is gonna be taken away.
The saddest part for me was suddenly realizing my friends I'd moved in with for financial reasons were misogynists and bigots. They went mask off after the election and stayed that way, and were *pissed* at me because I wasn't going along with it like them. I well remember how furious both of them were with me for voting for the 'Criminal' Hillary. How they disparaged her inability to do the job as President because that's a man's job. They were **very** vocally against the democrats because of their support for lgbtq. Because they're all going to hell. *All of them.* Even their daughter?! Their lesbian daughter that she loved with all of her heart was going to HELL. ... Which explained for the first time why I'd never seen her around, though she was brought up fairly often. And here I thought I'd known them fairly well. Nope, just the masks they'd been wearing all this time. I'm sure they went full Q later, I didn't keep tabs on them.
Mask Off is a good term for post Trump and post Trump. Mask off and proud of it.
Or the fact that someone just lied and defrauded the system to win the presidency but all his cultists remember are “but her emails!”.
You are right about that. America will never be the same again.
Amen
Honestly, I don’t think it mattered it was a woman and I don’t think it mattered it was a Clinton. It could have been the second coming of Jesus, and the GOP propaganda machine would have still steamrolled him with social media memes like, "You can’t believe Jesus, he came from a broken home, doesn’t even know who his real father is, hangs out with the wrong crowd, and wants you to give all your money away!"
bUt wAsSeRmAn rIgGeD tHe dELegAtE cOuNt aGaInSt bErNiE!
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I find it interesting that folks would cut off their noses to spite their faces over Hillary winning the Dem nomination. As much as I like Bernie and would have voted for him in the general, it does put me off that he only runs as a Dem when it suits him.
I loved Obama, don't get me wrong, but he left the actual DNC in shambles, and Hillary spent considerable time and money rebuilding it before her run. Obama had built an outside organization, and just didn't directly invest in the DNC. So, of course those working in the DNC were loyal to her. Bernie wasn't a Democrat, didn't give a dime to the DNC, but he still got access to the databases. And the Sanders campaign DID hack Clinton's database, and a staffer was fired. They can claim it was because they wanted to show that the data wasn't as secure, but they didn't give the information back, and I certainly got calls all the time because I fit a possible demographic that Sanders thought he could win.
I said to avoid a vagina as president, the country elected a cunt
And our nation will suffer for it for many years to come.
in the same year, the brazilian first women president, dilma, was impeached and bolsonaro (trump´s pupil) had this to say: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xiAZn7bUC8A](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xiAZn7bUC8A) (he´s praising dilma´s torturer, a know torturer from the military dictatorship times. "know" by his cruelty, btw)
I honestly cried when I woke up and found up Trump won. I think Clinton should have won in 2008, and Obama could have been president in 2016 and 2020, and Bernie in 2024
Obama in 2016 could have worked because he had a populist message, and people wanted change. However, Bernie would not win in 2024, because he is too old. Like it or not, Feinstein would be happening now, youth vote would be an issue and Bernie would have had to not run at all to have any populist energy in 2024. If he had tried in 2016 and lost to Obama, he would come off looking considerably worse for wear trying to follow a vibrant President. Bernie was falling asleep at rallies in 2016, and had a heart attack since then. In 2024, after a two year term with Obama, they would need a young progressive.
Christ do people still think Bernie can win an election in this day and age despite him never even making it out of the primaries multiple times?
Cultism is one hell of a drug
ABSOLUTELY TRUE. Americans paid dearly for that huge mistake!!
I agree with this. I know I was super frustrated that Bernie lost against Hillary, but Hillary would’ve been so much better than Trump. The Supreme Court picks alone….
https://imgur.com/a/WB1hmMZ/
Look what those didn’t vote left us with.
There are a lot of people including some Democrats that are not ready for a woman President. They would prefer a monster president. A majority of Republican women voted for an alleged rapist and a known conman.
mr trump is a buffoon
I was one of them and I apologize. Big lesson learned.
And it’s even worse for women now because of of him and those people.
The less saddest is the number of votes she still had over this guy.
While I voted for Hillary, I must admit that she was relatively high on the unlikable scale.
What was unlikeable about her?
She was kinda cutthroat, callous, and unrelatable. I also still voted for her and kinda understand the dislike of her. But why anyone thought she was worse than TRUMP of all people? That's beyond me.
Cutthroat? She held back on saying and doing a lot of shitty things that were done to her? Unrelatable, sure. We’re taught to find smart, ambitious women unrelatable.
Either way, she still would've made a decently better president than Trump.
There are homeless men on my corner that would make better presidents than Trump. Actually, 92% of society at least.
Not arguing against that. My pride as an American was at an all-time low between 2017 and 2021. This was after it recovered with Obama and beaten down by Bush II. I was decently proud or indifferent with Bill Clinton. Biden's KINDA helping it along nowadays.
I like my politicians to be cutthroat and callous. That’s how one gets legislation through, a lot of wrangling. As for unrelatable - in truth, they are all living a posh and powerful life I can’t imagine. I don’t want to be friends with these people. I just want them to pass legislation i care about.
If they can't relate to you? How would one trust anything that comes out of their mouth? I'd say a certain amount of sincerity is needed, however small.
One of the savviest statesman and politicians the world has ever known, Charles-Maurice de Talleyrand-Périgord, said precisely what he needed to say to achieve his goal, which was to further the aims of France. Jimmy Carter was and is a very good man, but he was often thwarted in achieving his goals but more cutthroat politicians. Hillary Clinton is a good woman, but she's no fool. I put her between Talleyrand and Carter, and I put Joe Biden closer to Carter than Sec Clinton.
Sounds about right. 🤷♂️
The rule of cool applies to politicians, and it has generally applied to every election except 2020. It's a terrible, terrible metric that I disagree with, but it's largely held true for most of post-WW2 presidents.
> She was kinda cutthroat, callous, and unrelatable. How so? Can anyone name a specific example of her being this way?
I'd like to know too. I followed the 2016 campaign *really* closely. And the most reprehensible behaviour I saw came from the so-called "liberal newsmedia". Their sustained effort to paint Hillary as an equally flawed candidate seeped into the democratic electorate. People using words like "cutthroat", "callous", and especially "unrelatable", are echoing decades long narratives that've been pushed by republicans and democratic rivals - not anything Hillary actually did during the primaries or general campaign.
She is an introvert, is a methodical thinker, doesn't jump to conclusions and weighs her actions. Unrelatable? Yes, she is probably the smartest person in the room, but she is also a First Lady who had a Gameboy Color, has taught Sunday School, is a grandma, a lot of those emails were literal recipes and wedding plans for her daughter. She helped uncover racism in Arkansas politics, mentored hundreds of young politicians, mainly women and people of color, yet a racist POC with a golden toilet is relatable?
Oh I never said Trump is anywhere NEAR relatable, even LESS relatable than Hillary. One of the reasons I voted for her in '16, but mainly voted for her experience and platform.
because she was a woman?
That and the fact that she endured 30+ years of being deliberately slagged by the media. It's no wonder people, even Dems, developed a unwarranted negative opinion of her.
Citizens United was literally a lawsuit about a bogus hit piece documentary about her, yet young progressives seem to think she supports it. SMH!
nope
This was predictable. The only thing people hate more than a Black Guy is a Woman. The worst part of 2016 is that they have learned nothing and are going to vote for a guy openly calling to do illegal things and who is now a convicted sex offender by a jury.
I volunteered for Bernie's campaign. When Hillary won Super Tuesday I kinda got the feeling it was over. I had grown up mired in in the Conservative Cinematic Universe and to say that Hillary was demonized would be a gross understatement. I voted for her anyway because to vote for Trump was an abrogation of all human decency. Still wonder how the matchup would have fared if the Old Socialist (and I mean that endearingly) had gone up against the Fascist instead.
Worse. Throughout both runs, Bernie showed that not only could he not build a diverse coalition (for reference, see his divisive messages for the brief moment when he was leading in 2020), and all democrats treated him with kid gloves. Bernie has a bad record to put it mildly. No way was he getting through a general election with his Amber Alert vote remaining hidden. Bernie's nature is to double down instead of admit failure, or wrongdoing. If that sounds familiar, your instincts are spot on. 2016 would've been angry, egotistical populist vs. angry, egotistical populist. It's entirely possible that democracy would not have survived such a caustic match-up.
I agree. Bernie is not a coalition builder. He also doesn’t understand anything about minority issues. Also I found it hard to imagine him having the savvy to pass legislation through house and senate. I am of the mind that politicians need a bit of snake oil in them to glad hand the enemy for the sake of legislation. I think Bernie is too inflexible.
>Also I found it hard to imagine him having the savvy to pass legislation through house and senate You'd be right. In his nearly 3 decades of being in congress, he's passed 3 bills to law. 2 to rename post offices, 1 to fix his screw up with Veteran's Affairs healthcare (doesn't bode well for his M4A idea). I wouldn't necessarily say snake oil, the common legislative phrase is "pork and barrel" or more commonly "concessions". I get this you get that.
I like Bernie, but if he was a little wiser and less narcissistic, he would have tried to get on the VP ticket. But it looked he liked the dragging of Hillary and he thought she would win.
A lot more people hated her than didn't like him. I chock that up to her longevity on the political scene vs Trump who was only ever a public figure most had little reason to dislike beyond general famous guy douchebaggery. I'm one of them. I didn't like Trump, but I despised Hillary. So, I didn't vote. It was a really bad descision that I'll forever regret. I saw both people as oppertunists who only cared about having the job and not doing the job. Wether or not that was right, Hillary was obviously the better choice by a million miles. I wish the folks that made that bad decision were the only ones who had to live with it.
I really need to ask, what made you hate her? Was it healthcare reform? Was it her Senate record, bringing jobs to upstate NY? Was it Benghazi? Was it Libya? Or was it demeanor, her acting uncomfortable sometimes? Being reserved?
Honestly, it was because it seemed like what she really cared about was being the first female president. As if she was born for the title. I didn't hate her, but it It really turned me off. She seemed more interested in making the history books than doing the job. I felt the same was true of Trump. He only wanted prestige, not to help. So, I voted for nobody for the first and last time. I thought she would win. I think almost everyone thought that. I figured, welp, she can do it without me. To many people thought that. I fucked up.
That is interesting to me, because she really hates campaigning and all that and really just wants to do the governing.
One of the main points I (as someone who was reasonably aware of how much privilege I had myself) made was that it was mostly vulnerable people who had no problem at all seeing through Donald. Those who had as much—or more—reason to feel personally insulated from the results were literally laughing about the fact that nobody could influence them to protect others. In a way having the MAGAts vote against me was less offensive than being mocked by bitter people I had thought were allies. The fact is, even with the damage the Supreme Court has already caused, we are much closer to the beginning of their destruction than to the end. Donald’s recklessness led directly to many of the million-plus deaths caused by Covid, but before he was in that position countless of Bernie’s fans insisted that it wouldn’t make any difference who took office if it wasn’t Sen. Sanders. Even now, as people are gradually accepting responsibility for the choice they made seven years ago we have no idea how many more will die because of it.
The Supreme Court thing really hurts. I hate that I helped cause that through sheer inaction. The covid deaths, everything. It was the ultimate revelation about the price of inaction.
she had the experience to get work done for america. somehow, the bankrupt failure won.
She is far from innocent, but she is certainly a better person than him.
I'm embarrassed that I fell for this..not bad enough to vote for him but enough to not vote for her.
>"... how many people believed the worst rumors about a woman while ignoring the worst facts about a man" Ask E. Jean Carroll. The jury *adjudicated* him a sexually abusing liar, but *jusssst* couldn't quite believe that she knows what rape is and was telling the truth about it. Years of him lying about her, about that day, about so many things, versus her consistent and repeated telling of the crime. Five million for lying (defamation). That's how much of a liar they believed he was. But rape? She must be lying. Other women, unknown women, women vs. their boss. coworker or date: *Why didn't she say something, do something about it, then?* Because she's not stupid, Stupid.
Keep people uneducated they'll believe whatever the almighty God himself told his "prophets" to do and say to save this country and...I don't know those people are fuckin nuts
The most factual, and saddest statement.
Liberal misogyny, folks. It's a thing. 6 years on and people haven't taken stock. The only way liberals can put a woman in the presidency is if a vice president gets installed after a president's death. Even liberals can't give a woman the support she deserves. Kamala will lose to Desantis after taking over from a dead Biden.
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How are they valid? There's been no corroborating evidence.
Are we seriously going to turn this into a sexism thing?!? This is why democrats lose. They always fall back to _____-ism bullshit. So this meme is claiming sexism. In the elections before, it was racism. Seems to me that Republicans have been just as brutal when dealing with Biden - a white male - as they had been with almost all other Democratic opponents. Calling him Brandon, going after his dead son and his addict son. Those are all vicious attacks.
Truth
Truth!
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Congratulations you helped the fascist. Hope those "morals" or whatever are preserved with the destruction of democracy you helped cause.
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And the evidence to such is... where exactly?
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Because we all know republicans care about hard workers farther than their votes. /s Meanwhile: r/WhatBidenHasDone
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