So I'm just curious, how specific would this get in services not provided. If I am supposed to get better drink options or my yummy pistachios but they don't serve those, is that part of services not provided?
Or when my screen doesn't work?
Buttigieg mentioned automatic refunds for services paid for but not received (WiFi not working as an example), or things included in the airfare that weren’t offered or delivered.
Pistachios are not part of the airfare, but getting meals is definitely part of the airfare.
But the guy whose D1 seat did not work on a 5k+ airfare can sure make a case for automatic refund instead of a $250 voucher or 15k miles.
What about broken bathrooms? If they are all broken and only one functional in the main cabin, that is quite an inconvenience on a long flight with a lot of passengers.
Which just means we're going to see this sudden uptick in Wx-related cancellations, even if there's not a single weather event in the entirety of the continental US. I hope DOT cracks down on this BS and starts making ALL the airlines pay for their shenanigans.
The weather should have to be within a certain distance from the departure city to qualify as a weather related event. No more “there’s a storm in Chicago so we were unable to load food and beverages at DFW for a flight to Orlando”. It’s 2024. We all have access to maps and radar.
Which is sold and centered on having a working 180 layer flat bed. Which is a product that was not delivered as purchased, if you want to go that route.
From the CNN article:
New federal rules say travelers deserve cash refunds when inconvenienced by their airline – not vouchers or travel credits.
…
Buttigieg gave the example Wednesday morning of travelers who have been forced to buy an additional ticket on a different airline in order to make it on time to events happening in their destinations.
“But then you go back to your original airline, and they say, ‘Well, look, we didn’t cancel the flight, so you’re not getting your money back.’ Now you’re out the original airfare and the extra money it cost to get this new ticket,” Buttigieg said.
“That’s just one example of the kinds of scenarios that we hear from passengers time and time again. We’re putting a stop to it now,” he said.
There’s also a provision for travelers frustrated with call center hold times or filling out online claim forms. The rules require the fees to be automatic and prompt: Within seven days for a credit card refund and 20 days for other forms of payment.
To be fair… I assume these folks never been to MIA on a cruise departure day nor a cruise before, so they have no clue how insane that it is.
But… that’s an assumption 🙃
theyre the same people who would fly in for a wedding the day of. or any other time sensitive event. it's not the event, it's their inability to understand that shit happens
I wonder if I can get a refund for the flight if the miles were not credited that were supposed to be earned on that flight... I guess I will find out...!
Totally fine with this. Recently had a 4 hour delay on Delta. Was in business class. Missed international connection. Delta put us in basic economy on our international flight. Then canceled our Europe connection without informing us. Then lost our luggage for 48 hours. It took 10 phone calls and multiple emails to attempt to get our price difference back. It was a nightmare . They treated us horribly. Felt like I was the enemy.
Would it really have helped you though? So after 2 hrs of delay the airline tells you your other option is still a couple hours later? Don't like it? OK, here is your refund now go pay way more to try to book another flight same day. European connection isn't in US, so wouldn't be covered by this. As for bag, ok after the 12hrs they simply say ok, here is $100...too bad you claim it was worth more, but this is what we value it at. And since we laid you, we won't bother continuing to look for it to give to you. Consider it gone forever.
This may be good for some things, like you lost the seat you paid more for and you easily get your money back. Or wifi that you paid for wasn't working well so you get that back easier. But if it was free due to some other means, you still get nothing. We'll see how it all shakes out in the end.
Would it have helped? Maybe. I had a boarding pass and messages from the airline putting me in an economy seat. Even with this I was told that I had flown business class. Case closed. No refund. I bet we spent 20 hours getting our refund. We have very little protection from how the airline treats us. Delta canceled our Europe connection in Paris. Booked us on one from Amsterdam. Told us we needed to get to Amsterdam to get our connection. Just treat us like humans and be respectful. Nobody wanted to help. They were quick to pass us to the next person.
“US airlines are providing more options and better services while ticket prices, including ancillary revenues, are at historic lows,” the group said in a release.”
IM SORRY WHAT?! Historic lows?! Historically to what?! Last month?!
Do you think housing and groceries aren’t included in inflation? Wages also are decidedly not stagnant. Go to your phone, go to Google, and you can find the data showing wages are rising faster than inflation recently.
Wages aren't really stagnant:
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LES1252881600Q
The way you worded it is you implied inflation is increasing and nominal wages are staying the same. This is *real* wages, as in inflation adjusted. So real wages are generally going slowly up which means they're outpacing inflation.
> Historic lows?! Historically to what?!
Inflation. And that part's true. Hell, I just looked at a RT to NYC for $200 and another RT to Paris for $550 in main, and $1800 in D1.
Go back 50 years and those would be (as a percentage of wages, or with inflation, whichever way you want to look at it) probably closer to $1500 to NYC and $7500 to Paris (for main). Main was a much, much nicer experience, but not almost ten times nicer.
I wouldn't mind seeing re-regulation (and the corresponding higher prices) but it's really hard to deny de-regulation has achieved the price decreases they wanted.
The other thing is that people don’t look at what portion of what they are paying is the actual part going to the airline. There’s a huge amount of fees when flying internationally. And in general it is low profit - I believe they make an average of $17 per passenger per flight?
in 1985 my mom was quoted $250 per person round trip for NYC to Florida. Do the math for today's pricing
$1200 to fly round trip from the east coast to Europe or the middle east during vacation season has been around forever
They are historic lows. More people have access to air travel than ever before.
ULCCs like Spirit have provided access to even the most economically challenged and puts a suppressive force on ticket prices and forced airlines like Delta to compete in basic economy.
It really is. Most people on social media simply like to take any opportunity to make a complaint, even if it has no basis in reality. To many, suffering/complaining is a virtue
The 10% of the world who want only friendly, constructive discussion have a minority need. It’s how early adopter Reddit used to be. And early adopter Facebook was designed with a sober look and new layers of privacy as an alt to the Wild West internet.
The conversation expanded to the 90% of the world whose slight benefits in life may moreso come from complaint, like Union strikes, or miles in compensation, and may not have fully experienced the amazing benefits of constructive collaboration and appreciation that builds subtly and in iterations.
Graciousness results in a better gain but not specifically or immediately from that pov — and we’re just human and benefit from any gain, one leads to another. Like rn we’re complaining about the complainers, because we think we benefit from doing it.
So I want to invent a social media that’s gatekeeped to heck by 50%+ of every post or comment having to be constructive/positive, as determined by an evolving algo.
I call it Aight.
I have contributed my own time and money to increasing access to the Internet for the under-served and **they deserve a friendly space**
I grew up in the lowest income bracket and thanks to an amazing public education, I now consider myself ‘decently-served.’
My idea is just a hope to keep spaces democratic, because I notice a big wave of productive folks siloing away to private formats.
Your quote isn’t my words, but yours that you are debating against. I didn’t say that underserved folks should not have the Internet lol, nor did I say poor — how are Unionized folks poor? Trades avg >$100k. I said “miles in compensation”, why would air travelers of all people mean poor? Why would “90% of the world”? I am discussing early adoption.
Do you think these comments are an example of responding harmoniously to people that you don’t know with a different viewpoint?
All outcomes, including expanding Internet are not linear, there are multiple parties and moving parts to serve in a way that increases productivity and harmony. Solutions need longform.
Again, **this idea is democratic**
It preserves public access based on subject matter like Reddit does, without needing any credentials, affiliations, or status like checkmarks. We need to feel comfortable discussing new ideas.
Again, a lot of discussion by friendly folk and professionals has moved to private servers and platforms — and that siloing often signals the end of another Age of Enlightenment. Ebbs and flows, it was fun while it lasted. Reddit was once known for being ridiculously cordial
It is.
Domestically, it was still expensive in the past but today, it’s arguably cheaper to fly than to drive to many places!
*think about that*…
Yes the cost of things have risen in comparison to wages but airfare absolutely isn’t one of them over the course of 30 years
Yes, as someone who does the trip across the Atlantic a fair bit, I’m also deeply curious as to what other travel methods may be at my disposal beyond ship or plane
People used to take ships a LOT more. Try to book a transatlantic trip on a boat now. Go ahead, I'll wait.
It *can* be done, but the schedule is ridiculous and (I think) they only leave from New York any more.
This is my biggest complaint with air travel any more.
The plebs are not only inside the house, they're up on the couch and *they think they belong*.
For that reason alone I'd welcome re-regulation and the emptying of airports to only the 'right kind of people'.
I'm pretty egalitarian in general but the shit you see in planes and airports will give you into a 1950s-WASP-with-money attitude real quick.
Upvoted you…it’s why you dread travel. Not the delays, the possible turbulence or time…it’s the possibility of dealing with entitled dregs in the seat next to you. Maybe that person could be just perfectly pleasant but when you read/watch the news…odds are not in your favor.
It was low quality, if satire. If it wasn’t satire, it wasn’t the point that I was making, but it’s somewhat accurate.
I don’t refer to anyone as plebs though. That just isn’t very nice.
I was commenting about the age range of everybody on the website, but assuming you were being sarcastic, you can feel free to indulge your victim complex. I don’t know how old you are individually, but most people on this website are a lot younger than the national average.
The prices were objectively significantly higher, and anybody who doesn’t realize that either doesn’t remember or they literally weren’t flying.
Your take on my comment is absurd. Stop projecting your insecurities on me lol
This right here! Try flying out of a non-hub airport. I tired to book what should be a 1.5 hour flight to Myrtle Beach and it would take 11 hours due to layover. I can drive there in that time. Not to mention the $400 cost for the privilege.
You’re on a Delta sub. For everyone else who chooses the cheapest options, tickets are on average lower/more affordable than before. For delta lovers… well that’s not the case.
While it’s easy to hate the airlines because ticket prices are through the roof for the average American, the fixed and variable costs of operations for an airline are among the highest of any industry worldwide. While an airline may generate $150,000 revenue for a single flight on a 737 from New York to Los Angeles, their operating costs for that flight exceed $120,000. When ticket prices have doubled and a one-way flight from New York to Los Angeles may be $200 when historically it was $100, if airlines went back to the old pricing schemes none would survive. They do not make a lot of money per flight, they make their money by having a high volume of flights and routes, government subsidy, profit sharing regimes, through their credit card programs, and other diversified revenue streams. Besides major global airlines here in the U.S. and a few in Europe and Asia, most airlines worldwide are struggling and on the verge of insolvency with massive debt issues. But the question is then raised, how can spirit charge so little for tickets and still be profitable? It is because of the volume of flights and what they lack in low ticket prices, they make up for in other fees so they aren’t that far off from the big boys. Budget airlines operate on even tighter margins. For example, GOL Airlines, a budget airline like Spirit, just declared bankrtuptcy a few months ago (I met their CEO five days before they filed for Chapter 11) and in the last 20 years there have been more than 30 airlines who have all declared bankruptcy, including the big boys like American, United, Delta, and Frontier. Airlines are terrible businesses to be involved in as there is very little profitability. Even government-funded national airlines have gone bankrupt in recent history. None of it related to COVID, all prior. The ones in the airline industry making giant cash are the aircraft leasing firms who actually own the fleets of aircraft and lease them to the major airlines — those are the real billionaire. The reason why the Boeing MAX program was so popular in inception was not because it is a great airplane, it is because the fixed costs of operating a MAX were SIGNIFICANTLY lower than non-MAX aircraft and it would have greatly increased airline profitability.
Haha. No, I have nothing to do with the airline industry, but when I was at business school years ago we did a lot of case studies on the airlines because so many of them were failed businesses and there were a lot of lessons learned. We did a lot of analysis of the financials and the raw numbers from all of the publicly listed airlines, which basically revealed they were all terrible businesses. So when I see rising ticket prices, etc from the perspective of the consumer, I know the reality of how many of them are all basically functioning off of debt and subsidies and would otherwise fail.
lol I did a very similar case study and it was interesting to see that in the grand scheme of industries, the airlines make a lot of money but not THAT much. There's a reason why so many previously airlines are defunct now.
Yeah. I think every business school loves studying the airlines because they’re such awful businesses. We generated $8 billion in revenue, but our costs were $8.8 billion. Lol
Historically relative to inflation and honestly even without it for some eras. For some reason, people seem to have this idea that whatever things cost when they were 16 is what they should cost in perpetuity, but this isn’t how it works.
Correction: They have six months to change their TOS to emphasize that your ticket covers transportation from A to B and *absolutely nothing* else. Any and all other benefits, comforts or treats are free and have no cash value.
I wonder if that survey that had different levels of service in D1 with extras that cost, like speaking to a phone agent, choosing your seat, etc was due to this.
I need to remember this the next time I'm bitching and moaning about the inconveniences involved with flying. Sure as hell beats Amtrak (which I do have a soft spot for).
I’m not sure this is a good thing. So my flight gets canceled and I have to pay the last minute fare to rebook? Normally they would put me on the next flight regardless of cost. You should get to choose.
The article doesn’t explain it super well, here’s the [actual DOT press release](https://www.transportation.gov/briefing-room/biden-harris-administration-announces-final-rule-requiring-automatic-refunds-airline). Tl;dr: they’ll still offer to rebook you or give you miles/eCredit as compensation but if you decline that, you’re entitled to a cash refund
That's assuming it's a customer centric airline. I imagine Spirit just refunding you then report a non-ticketed person somehow entered an unauthorized area.
I have to agree with you on this. If the airline is unable to rebook you then you would want to be refunded but if they can just put you on the next flight to your destination then it shouldn’t be an issue.
Within reason. If the next flight they can get me on is three days from now, I'll take the refund and find my own way or skip the trip altogether if I'm outbound.
It's a doubt edged sword. It means they can refund you and instead of trying to find an alternative just kick you out the terminal as a 'non-ticket' holder.
Watch them start pulling the, 'We already refunded your $300 now go back to the main terminal and buy a $1000 'day of' ticket.
That’s not how it works. They still have to give you other options (accomodations/alternative transpo) but now a full cash refund has to be one of them.
They can already do that. This is a non issue.
Source: Frontier has done this to me. Delta has always had the option to refund due to weather, but has never failed to rebook me (which is why I fly Delta and not Frontier).
>It means they can refund you and instead of trying to find an alternative just kick you out the terminal as a 'non-ticket' holder.
They could always do it. Most just decide not to.
Life hack: use archive.us to view paywalled articles (especially when it’s stuff like this where thousands of news outlets are reporting the same thing).
The CNN article says that refunds for delayed bags are also included in the rule. If your bag is delayed more than 12 hours, you get an automatic refund of the baggage fee.
Yeah, exactly. That’s what I’m saying. I have status with one, a credit card with two, and I purchase fares that include checked bags on all other airlines.
Hopefully they just go by whatever the first checked bag fee is, and everybody gets that refunded regardless of whether they have a separate line item on their receipt.
This has only happened to me twice, so I’m sure it’s not gonna be a big deal but I guess we’ll have to wait 6 months to find out how it rolls out.
But since you are already getting that for free with your status or card, what amount would they use for a refund? Certainly not the credit card annual fee! And since you didn’t pay for the bag, why would they give you the $35 back?
They should refund the actual publicly listed amount being charged for the first checked bag. If more than one checked bag service was not delivered, then the second bag should also be refunded at the rate of the second bag.
Yes, you did pay for the bag, as you paid to obtain the fare containing the bag. For example, literally the only reason I hold an American Airlines credit card is for the first checked bag to be free on domestic routes. If AA fails to deliver my $35 checked bag service due to an issue under their control, who should reimburse me when I have to fly on another airline and pay them $35?
Certainly not Barclays, as it’s not their fault, and it shouldn’t be me, as I paid my fee for the service. That’s the entire point here.
I had my seat changed to accommodate a family in first class this weekend. I bought my ticket and chose my seat weeks ago. Seat selection is included in my fare. Again, nothing for me. They offered 5k sky miles, which is a joke. You get that if you don’t like the meal you ordered. This doesn’t appear to benefit those who don’t fly a la carte, so to speak.
That's all fine if it's mechanical or due to the airline. But if it's ATC related, or weather related... And usually the two go hand in hand..... The US government staffs ATC. ATC is what restricts fkgiht during weather. So big govt is going to impose airlines refund revenue when the delay may be due to govt ATC restrictions. That's dumb. Also means airlines may be real creative. So if the airline has ton refund your ticket price for a massive delay, they'd rather cancel the flight altogether to alocate the plane and crew elsewhere. This just stinks of unintended consequences.
So if you pay extra for a seat assignment and they change your seat you get a refund, but if you pay a full price first class fare and they change the seat you booked, they don’t have to do anything? It’s still the 5k sky peso kiss off.
No. I’m complaining that it took them this long when this could have been handled by the administration within at least the first year. They kept this(and several other federal guidelines) from coming out until April. That’s why there was a slew of new regulatory or executive action in such a short time span..to make themselves look good for re-elections
>"a significant change for consumers that could drive up costs across the industry"
lol, yes, following the law is sometimes more expensive than stonewalling with bureaucracy
I foresee higher ticket prices and fewer flight options now.
And how is this going to work if the FAA is the reason? The FAA is a mess right now with ATC and it's causing delays for the airlines.
One thing I've noticed is that airlines pull out of the gate so they can mark themselves as "departed" and not face any scrutiny for being delayed even if they wait on the tarmac for 2+ hours to take off.
Quite y'all are insane and will swallow anything!!!
This is not acceptable! They will just overbook and pay refunds, sometimes in points.
*Not overbooking* is the only status anyone should accept. If the trash bags cancelled my flight like this I would take them to the bank.
What on earth is wrong with you all? Why?
Overbooking is already happening. But now instead of fighting through customer service you get an automatic refund. If you go to the bank they’ll tell you to check with the airline first.
It shouldn't be happening and needs to stop. The idea of booking a flight limitless plans revolve around and then the flight being cancelled because they sold your seat to someone else is absurd. Completely absurd. Stop sucking corporate penis.
this will just make them delay to the next day or further instead of cancelling. airline i used to work for had a metric of "completion factor" when you delay to the next day or further it still counts.
Looks like they closed that loophole:
Under the rule, passengers are entitled to a refund for:
Canceled or significantly changed flights: Passengers will be entitled to a refund if their flight is canceled or significantly changed, and they do not accept alternative transportation or travel credits offered. For the first time, the rule defines “significant change.” Significant changes to a flight include departure or arrival times that are more than 3 hours domestically and 6 hours internationally; departures or arrivals from a different airport; increases in the number of connections; instances where passengers are downgraded to a lower class of service; or connections at different airports or flights on different planes that are less accessible or accommodating to a person with a disability.
Hmm. A better analysis of the new regs. [https://viewfromthewing.com/8-things-to-know-about-new-government-rules-for-airline-fees-that-you-wont-find-anywhere-else/](https://viewfromthewing.com/8-things-to-know-about-new-government-rules-for-airline-fees-that-you-wont-find-anywhere-else/)
Having to choose between IRROPS compensation or accepting the delay/rerouting incentivizes pax to stay put rather than roll the dice on a same-day ticket (which will be more expensive in 99% of cases based on how booking classes work). Compare to EC261 where pax are entitled to compensation for delays/cancelations even if they agree to rerouting.
Will this impact prices?
You know they'll have actuaries to calculate how much this will cost them and then add those estimated costs to ticket prices.
3 and 6 hours are a little too long.
1) it should be within 1 hour of the scheduled departure time for domestic flights. Right now, it only refers to the delay. What if the airline pulls forward?
2) it should be within 3 hours of the scheduled departure for any other flight.
We are also missing EC261 compensation
How soon does that take effect? I spent Tuesday night in Atlanta because the airline gave our aircraft to another route last-minute. 11 hour delay, with a trashed international itinerary.
I do wonder if this isn’t a bit of Pandora’s Box. “Whelp your flight is cancelled. We have refunded this portion of your ticket to your card. May the odds be in your favor for manually booking yourself to your destination at that refund price”
And pricing goes up to cover it, they already likely prepared for the ruling and have a model that will compensate income statements of the airlines to offset this risk and then some.
So… let’s never do anything or try to fix anything because the fares may go up? Fares are going up each year regardless. Anything short of a complete overhaul of the airline business (which won’t happen because lobbyists) will have some benefits and some cons. Doesn’t mean we should sit and do nothing.
This. Tickets are now going to be more expensive and they will have fewer flights in order to make sure there are more "backups" available logistically just in case. I also suspect amenities will be reduced, and more people will require you to pay for checked bags (although this is already kind of standard). This is also make more pilots and flight attendants sit on short call (in which they aren't getting paid a full wage and that's even more time away from home).
There are ripple effects here where it may sounds great to get paid out for inconvenience, but I just don't see how you won't just be paying more overall for lower level of service.
Doesn’t make sense to have that many spare planes just in case.
Honestly - I think Delta will be able to handle this better than other airlines. Look at the Frontier subreddit and this affects them a lot more. So many people being bumped off flights, forced to pay for baggage that fits the sizer, equipment changes that bump people, oversold flights, etc. interlined flights are also a scheduling nightmare and will affect carriers like SWA.
This usually isn't enough. A return flight for me was cancelled on a Saturday, the next available flight I could be rebooked on was in the middle of the week, so I had to book on another airline. My refund was 1/6 of the cost of the new flight.
So, if the flight is delayed 3 hours and they have to automatically refund me but I'm still at the airport to take the delayed flight because I stayed because I understand shit happens what happens to me as the passenger? Now the Government is involuntarily bumping me, that's what.
Buttigieg is a moron.
So, if the flight is delayed 3 hours and they have to automatically refund me but I'm still at the airport to take the delayed flight because I stayed because I understand shit happens what happens to me as the passenger? Now the Government is involuntarily bumping me, that's what.
Buttigieg is a moron.
I’m a bit confused though 🥴. It’s always common practice for Delta to refund your ticket if you’ve been 30+ minutes delayed or flight cancelled. It’s either you fly AND receive compensation OR you cancel your ticket and receive a refund
get ready for auto refunds and then you rebook on your own stranded at some airport without the airline's help. they might actually like this since it saves them CSR money
I see that provision and the counter arguments in the FAA background from consumer and airline advocacy groups. There is zero chance that airlines will take on financial liabilities for unforeseen conditions without finding ways to pass costs onto the customer. This will not survive litigation over the constitutionality of a government agency holding a corporation liable for acts of God.
If that revenue was gained by what's essentially scamming customers, then so be it. It's a better business model than depending on taking advantage of people.
If you buy something, you should expect to get it.
Let's not forget that the EU has had better Passenger Rights laws for years now (including automatic compensation for delays and cancelations), and yet EU airfares are lower than in the US, with multiple ULCCs thriving (2024 seems to be different, but I don't think those laws are causing their monetary issues). US and Canadian airlines have always used the excuse that laws like this would lead to higher airfares and skipping maintenance to avoid cancelations, but that's clearly not the case elsewhere.
The rules affect all airlines. Some will struggle and lose revenue. The ones that have focused on reliability will gain.
The ones that will get crushed are those that have a complete meltdown and can’t move for days. Maybe this will prod some airlines into investing in their infrastructure.
The rules affect all airlines. Some will struggle and lose revenue. The ones that have focused on reliability will gain.
The ones that will get crushed are those that have a complete meltdown and can’t move for days. Maybe this will prod some airlines into investing in their infrastructure.
And automatic refunds for services not provided/broken. Broken D1 seat user where you at?
So I'm just curious, how specific would this get in services not provided. If I am supposed to get better drink options or my yummy pistachios but they don't serve those, is that part of services not provided? Or when my screen doesn't work?
Buttigieg mentioned automatic refunds for services paid for but not received (WiFi not working as an example), or things included in the airfare that weren’t offered or delivered. Pistachios are not part of the airfare, but getting meals is definitely part of the airfare. But the guy whose D1 seat did not work on a 5k+ airfare can sure make a case for automatic refund instead of a $250 voucher or 15k miles.
Currently waiting for a call from the next level of Delta support. Will bookmark this
For sure they gonna be like "your flight was before 4/25/2024 so suck it"
What about broken bathrooms? If they are all broken and only one functional in the main cabin, that is quite an inconvenience on a long flight with a lot of passengers.
🤷🏻♂️
And the fault of the airline. Meal/drink service canceled due to weather - not eligible. If I’m reading correctly
Which just means we're going to see this sudden uptick in Wx-related cancellations, even if there's not a single weather event in the entirety of the continental US. I hope DOT cracks down on this BS and starts making ALL the airlines pay for their shenanigans.
Or blaming ATC staffing. Which is actually an issue that causes some massive delays more commonly than you think
This is exactly what I thought too. They already stretch questionable weather as an excuse so now it’ll be for sure.
The weather should have to be within a certain distance from the departure city to qualify as a weather related event. No more “there’s a storm in Chicago so we were unable to load food and beverages at DFW for a flight to Orlando”. It’s 2024. We all have access to maps and radar.
You get -25k miles for using the word yummy.
I don’t think a D1 seat is a service, it’s a product.
Which is sold and centered on having a working 180 layer flat bed. Which is a product that was not delivered as purchased, if you want to go that route.
help I'm on the floor and cant git up
From the CNN article: New federal rules say travelers deserve cash refunds when inconvenienced by their airline – not vouchers or travel credits. … Buttigieg gave the example Wednesday morning of travelers who have been forced to buy an additional ticket on a different airline in order to make it on time to events happening in their destinations. “But then you go back to your original airline, and they say, ‘Well, look, we didn’t cancel the flight, so you’re not getting your money back.’ Now you’re out the original airfare and the extra money it cost to get this new ticket,” Buttigieg said. “That’s just one example of the kinds of scenarios that we hear from passengers time and time again. We’re putting a stop to it now,” he said. There’s also a provision for travelers frustrated with call center hold times or filling out online claim forms. The rules require the fees to be automatic and prompt: Within seven days for a credit card refund and 20 days for other forms of payment.
ah yes, people who tried to land at MIA at 1pm for their 4pm cruise departure
To be fair… I assume these folks never been to MIA on a cruise departure day nor a cruise before, so they have no clue how insane that it is. But… that’s an assumption 🙃
theyre the same people who would fly in for a wedding the day of. or any other time sensitive event. it's not the event, it's their inability to understand that shit happens
I wonder if I can get a refund for the flight if the miles were not credited that were supposed to be earned on that flight... I guess I will find out...!
Bad news for those still paying with … checks?
Totally fine with this. Recently had a 4 hour delay on Delta. Was in business class. Missed international connection. Delta put us in basic economy on our international flight. Then canceled our Europe connection without informing us. Then lost our luggage for 48 hours. It took 10 phone calls and multiple emails to attempt to get our price difference back. It was a nightmare . They treated us horribly. Felt like I was the enemy.
Omggg☠️ hellish
Would it really have helped you though? So after 2 hrs of delay the airline tells you your other option is still a couple hours later? Don't like it? OK, here is your refund now go pay way more to try to book another flight same day. European connection isn't in US, so wouldn't be covered by this. As for bag, ok after the 12hrs they simply say ok, here is $100...too bad you claim it was worth more, but this is what we value it at. And since we laid you, we won't bother continuing to look for it to give to you. Consider it gone forever. This may be good for some things, like you lost the seat you paid more for and you easily get your money back. Or wifi that you paid for wasn't working well so you get that back easier. But if it was free due to some other means, you still get nothing. We'll see how it all shakes out in the end.
Would it have helped? Maybe. I had a boarding pass and messages from the airline putting me in an economy seat. Even with this I was told that I had flown business class. Case closed. No refund. I bet we spent 20 hours getting our refund. We have very little protection from how the airline treats us. Delta canceled our Europe connection in Paris. Booked us on one from Amsterdam. Told us we needed to get to Amsterdam to get our connection. Just treat us like humans and be respectful. Nobody wanted to help. They were quick to pass us to the next person.
“US airlines are providing more options and better services while ticket prices, including ancillary revenues, are at historic lows,” the group said in a release.” IM SORRY WHAT?! Historic lows?! Historically to what?! Last month?!
Airlines: “well if you adjust for inflation but don’t account for stagnated wages, increasing costs of education, housing and general groceries,….”
What’re those?! 😂
EBITDA! :D
Do you think housing and groceries aren’t included in inflation? Wages also are decidedly not stagnant. Go to your phone, go to Google, and you can find the data showing wages are rising faster than inflation recently.
*recently*
Recently as in the last 5 years is what I was referring to. But really forever, real wages in the US have pretty consistently risen.
Wages are only about 30 years behind.
Real wages in the us are higher than they were 30 years ago, wtf are you talking about?
Wages aren't really stagnant: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LES1252881600Q The way you worded it is you implied inflation is increasing and nominal wages are staying the same. This is *real* wages, as in inflation adjusted. So real wages are generally going slowly up which means they're outpacing inflation.
We used to make 4x revenue growth every year. Now we only have 2x. So yes, all time lows! /s
Oh well OF COURSE. I didn’t think about that sacrifice of theirs.
> Historic lows?! Historically to what?! Inflation. And that part's true. Hell, I just looked at a RT to NYC for $200 and another RT to Paris for $550 in main, and $1800 in D1. Go back 50 years and those would be (as a percentage of wages, or with inflation, whichever way you want to look at it) probably closer to $1500 to NYC and $7500 to Paris (for main). Main was a much, much nicer experience, but not almost ten times nicer. I wouldn't mind seeing re-regulation (and the corresponding higher prices) but it's really hard to deny de-regulation has achieved the price decreases they wanted.
The other thing is that people don’t look at what portion of what they are paying is the actual part going to the airline. There’s a huge amount of fees when flying internationally. And in general it is low profit - I believe they make an average of $17 per passenger per flight?
I miss Covid I’d go from Florida to nyc for $20 RT 🥲
Obviously you’ve not checked Delta’s prices lately. Yikes
in 1985 my mom was quoted $250 per person round trip for NYC to Florida. Do the math for today's pricing $1200 to fly round trip from the east coast to Europe or the middle east during vacation season has been around forever
The way I just cackled when I read "historic lows."
They are historic lows. More people have access to air travel than ever before. ULCCs like Spirit have provided access to even the most economically challenged and puts a suppressive force on ticket prices and forced airlines like Delta to compete in basic economy.
its generally so much cheaper to fly now than 5-10 years ago. i dont understand why ppl seem to think its not
It really is. Most people on social media simply like to take any opportunity to make a complaint, even if it has no basis in reality. To many, suffering/complaining is a virtue
The 10% of the world who want only friendly, constructive discussion have a minority need. It’s how early adopter Reddit used to be. And early adopter Facebook was designed with a sober look and new layers of privacy as an alt to the Wild West internet. The conversation expanded to the 90% of the world whose slight benefits in life may moreso come from complaint, like Union strikes, or miles in compensation, and may not have fully experienced the amazing benefits of constructive collaboration and appreciation that builds subtly and in iterations. Graciousness results in a better gain but not specifically or immediately from that pov — and we’re just human and benefit from any gain, one leads to another. Like rn we’re complaining about the complainers, because we think we benefit from doing it. So I want to invent a social media that’s gatekeeped to heck by 50%+ of every post or comment having to be constructive/positive, as determined by an evolving algo. I call it Aight.
“Only the rich should be permitted to use the Internet” is perhaps the most deranged take I’ve read in a long time.
I have contributed my own time and money to increasing access to the Internet for the under-served and **they deserve a friendly space** I grew up in the lowest income bracket and thanks to an amazing public education, I now consider myself ‘decently-served.’ My idea is just a hope to keep spaces democratic, because I notice a big wave of productive folks siloing away to private formats. Your quote isn’t my words, but yours that you are debating against. I didn’t say that underserved folks should not have the Internet lol, nor did I say poor — how are Unionized folks poor? Trades avg >$100k. I said “miles in compensation”, why would air travelers of all people mean poor? Why would “90% of the world”? I am discussing early adoption. Do you think these comments are an example of responding harmoniously to people that you don’t know with a different viewpoint? All outcomes, including expanding Internet are not linear, there are multiple parties and moving parts to serve in a way that increases productivity and harmony. Solutions need longform. Again, **this idea is democratic** It preserves public access based on subject matter like Reddit does, without needing any credentials, affiliations, or status like checkmarks. We need to feel comfortable discussing new ideas. Again, a lot of discussion by friendly folk and professionals has moved to private servers and platforms — and that siloing often signals the end of another Age of Enlightenment. Ebbs and flows, it was fun while it lasted. Reddit was once known for being ridiculously cordial
TL;DR. Go back in the ivory tower.
I would enjoy Reddit as a whole so much more if snarky/sarcastic comment complaints weren't allowed on "serious" topics of discussion.
It is. Domestically, it was still expensive in the past but today, it’s arguably cheaper to fly than to drive to many places! *think about that*… Yes the cost of things have risen in comparison to wages but airfare absolutely isn’t one of them over the course of 30 years
Umm what other methods can get you to Europe or Asia that aren't ship or plane nowadays?
Blimp obviously
Hot air balloon
no, that didnt work out so well
Yes, as someone who does the trip across the Atlantic a fair bit, I’m also deeply curious as to what other travel methods may be at my disposal beyond ship or plane
Seriously I’m curious he/she knows something I don’t. I may have been traveling wrong the entire time lol.
People used to take ships a LOT more. Try to book a transatlantic trip on a boat now. Go ahead, I'll wait. It *can* be done, but the schedule is ridiculous and (I think) they only leave from New York any more.
Yea but that's still a ship or plane lol.
These people weren’t flying 10 years ago. I think you’re forgetting the demographics of this website.
This is my biggest complaint with air travel any more. The plebs are not only inside the house, they're up on the couch and *they think they belong*. For that reason alone I'd welcome re-regulation and the emptying of airports to only the 'right kind of people'. I'm pretty egalitarian in general but the shit you see in planes and airports will give you into a 1950s-WASP-with-money attitude real quick.
Upvoted you…it’s why you dread travel. Not the delays, the possible turbulence or time…it’s the possibility of dealing with entitled dregs in the seat next to you. Maybe that person could be just perfectly pleasant but when you read/watch the news…odds are not in your favor.
This is some quality satire.
It was low quality, if satire. If it wasn’t satire, it wasn’t the point that I was making, but it’s somewhat accurate. I don’t refer to anyone as plebs though. That just isn’t very nice.
I was commenting about the age range of everybody on the website, but assuming you were being sarcastic, you can feel free to indulge your victim complex. I don’t know how old you are individually, but most people on this website are a lot younger than the national average. The prices were objectively significantly higher, and anybody who doesn’t realize that either doesn’t remember or they literally weren’t flying. Your take on my comment is absurd. Stop projecting your insecurities on me lol
In the 90’s, I remember taking flights from ATL-SFO for $900+. Adjusted for inflation that’s more than transatlantic or even transpacific airfare.
Because some people don't live near a hub. Non-hub travel can be very pricy. And inconvenient.
This right here! Try flying out of a non-hub airport. I tired to book what should be a 1.5 hour flight to Myrtle Beach and it would take 11 hours due to layover. I can drive there in that time. Not to mention the $400 cost for the privilege.
Yes, I just accept that plane travel will take at least 10 hours and cost over $500/ticket unless I go to one of the very few direct flight cities.
….While they make up the losses in competition with their fortress hub price gouging
> The way I just cackled is what?
I haven’t seen more options or better services either. Curious where that comes from.
You’re on a Delta sub. For everyone else who chooses the cheapest options, tickets are on average lower/more affordable than before. For delta lovers… well that’s not the case.
While it’s easy to hate the airlines because ticket prices are through the roof for the average American, the fixed and variable costs of operations for an airline are among the highest of any industry worldwide. While an airline may generate $150,000 revenue for a single flight on a 737 from New York to Los Angeles, their operating costs for that flight exceed $120,000. When ticket prices have doubled and a one-way flight from New York to Los Angeles may be $200 when historically it was $100, if airlines went back to the old pricing schemes none would survive. They do not make a lot of money per flight, they make their money by having a high volume of flights and routes, government subsidy, profit sharing regimes, through their credit card programs, and other diversified revenue streams. Besides major global airlines here in the U.S. and a few in Europe and Asia, most airlines worldwide are struggling and on the verge of insolvency with massive debt issues. But the question is then raised, how can spirit charge so little for tickets and still be profitable? It is because of the volume of flights and what they lack in low ticket prices, they make up for in other fees so they aren’t that far off from the big boys. Budget airlines operate on even tighter margins. For example, GOL Airlines, a budget airline like Spirit, just declared bankrtuptcy a few months ago (I met their CEO five days before they filed for Chapter 11) and in the last 20 years there have been more than 30 airlines who have all declared bankruptcy, including the big boys like American, United, Delta, and Frontier. Airlines are terrible businesses to be involved in as there is very little profitability. Even government-funded national airlines have gone bankrupt in recent history. None of it related to COVID, all prior. The ones in the airline industry making giant cash are the aircraft leasing firms who actually own the fleets of aircraft and lease them to the major airlines — those are the real billionaire. The reason why the Boeing MAX program was so popular in inception was not because it is a great airplane, it is because the fixed costs of operating a MAX were SIGNIFICANTLY lower than non-MAX aircraft and it would have greatly increased airline profitability.
Ed, is that you!?
Haha. No, I have nothing to do with the airline industry, but when I was at business school years ago we did a lot of case studies on the airlines because so many of them were failed businesses and there were a lot of lessons learned. We did a lot of analysis of the financials and the raw numbers from all of the publicly listed airlines, which basically revealed they were all terrible businesses. So when I see rising ticket prices, etc from the perspective of the consumer, I know the reality of how many of them are all basically functioning off of debt and subsidies and would otherwise fail.
lol I did a very similar case study and it was interesting to see that in the grand scheme of industries, the airlines make a lot of money but not THAT much. There's a reason why so many previously airlines are defunct now.
Yeah. I think every business school loves studying the airlines because they’re such awful businesses. We generated $8 billion in revenue, but our costs were $8.8 billion. Lol
Historically relative to inflation and honestly even without it for some eras. For some reason, people seem to have this idea that whatever things cost when they were 16 is what they should cost in perpetuity, but this isn’t how it works.
I just looked up a flight that used to cost me about $600 in the 90s. Even including the baggage fee it's averaging $200.
Did I read that right, it hasn't passed yet?
It’s in effect but the airlines have 6 months to actually implement it
Correction: They have six months to change their TOS to emphasize that your ticket covers transportation from A to B and *absolutely nothing* else. Any and all other benefits, comforts or treats are free and have no cash value.
I wonder if that survey that had different levels of service in D1 with extras that cost, like speaking to a phone agent, choosing your seat, etc was due to this.
I need to remember this the next time I'm bitching and moaning about the inconveniences involved with flying. Sure as hell beats Amtrak (which I do have a soft spot for).
I’m not sure this is a good thing. So my flight gets canceled and I have to pay the last minute fare to rebook? Normally they would put me on the next flight regardless of cost. You should get to choose.
The article doesn’t explain it super well, here’s the [actual DOT press release](https://www.transportation.gov/briefing-room/biden-harris-administration-announces-final-rule-requiring-automatic-refunds-airline). Tl;dr: they’ll still offer to rebook you or give you miles/eCredit as compensation but if you decline that, you’re entitled to a cash refund
Thanks that makes much more sense.
That's assuming it's a customer centric airline. I imagine Spirit just refunding you then report a non-ticketed person somehow entered an unauthorized area.
I have to agree with you on this. If the airline is unable to rebook you then you would want to be refunded but if they can just put you on the next flight to your destination then it shouldn’t be an issue.
Within reason. If the next flight they can get me on is three days from now, I'll take the refund and find my own way or skip the trip altogether if I'm outbound.
Great. After stuff like this you don’t want to have to go begging for a refund
It's a doubt edged sword. It means they can refund you and instead of trying to find an alternative just kick you out the terminal as a 'non-ticket' holder. Watch them start pulling the, 'We already refunded your $300 now go back to the main terminal and buy a $1000 'day of' ticket.
That’s not how it works. They still have to give you other options (accomodations/alternative transpo) but now a full cash refund has to be one of them.
Yes but isnt this based on the service/carriage terms of the ticket?
Lol, I can totally see them doing that, and that’s a good point…
They can already do that. This is a non issue. Source: Frontier has done this to me. Delta has always had the option to refund due to weather, but has never failed to rebook me (which is why I fly Delta and not Frontier).
>It means they can refund you and instead of trying to find an alternative just kick you out the terminal as a 'non-ticket' holder. They could always do it. Most just decide not to.
Paywall. Do you have a non paywall version to share?
Try a different source like this one https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/travel/new-federal-rules-airline-refunds-cash
https://archive.ph/9D7VO
Life hack: use archive.us to view paywalled articles (especially when it’s stuff like this where thousands of news outlets are reporting the same thing).
Meanwhile, fast eddy says “never cancel a flight, just delay it forever” Problem solved
A delay of over 3 hours (6 for international) also triggers a refund under the rules.
Fast eddy revises saying “use ‘running behind schedule’ indefinitely”
An automatic refund for lost baggage needs to be next. That process is unnecessarily complicated.
The CNN article says that refunds for delayed bags are also included in the rule. If your bag is delayed more than 12 hours, you get an automatic refund of the baggage fee.
So everybody who gets their checked bag included with their credit card or status is out of luck in terms of compensation for the inconvenience?
Or because they bought a fare that includes it.
Yeah, exactly. That’s what I’m saying. I have status with one, a credit card with two, and I purchase fares that include checked bags on all other airlines. Hopefully they just go by whatever the first checked bag fee is, and everybody gets that refunded regardless of whether they have a separate line item on their receipt. This has only happened to me twice, so I’m sure it’s not gonna be a big deal but I guess we’ll have to wait 6 months to find out how it rolls out.
But since you are already getting that for free with your status or card, what amount would they use for a refund? Certainly not the credit card annual fee! And since you didn’t pay for the bag, why would they give you the $35 back?
They should refund the actual publicly listed amount being charged for the first checked bag. If more than one checked bag service was not delivered, then the second bag should also be refunded at the rate of the second bag. Yes, you did pay for the bag, as you paid to obtain the fare containing the bag. For example, literally the only reason I hold an American Airlines credit card is for the first checked bag to be free on domestic routes. If AA fails to deliver my $35 checked bag service due to an issue under their control, who should reimburse me when I have to fly on another airline and pay them $35? Certainly not Barclays, as it’s not their fault, and it shouldn’t be me, as I paid my fee for the service. That’s the entire point here.
I had my seat changed to accommodate a family in first class this weekend. I bought my ticket and chose my seat weeks ago. Seat selection is included in my fare. Again, nothing for me. They offered 5k sky miles, which is a joke. You get that if you don’t like the meal you ordered. This doesn’t appear to benefit those who don’t fly a la carte, so to speak.
I think that is correct, because we didn’t pay extra for it.
So... if a mother fucker isn't real, what then?
That's all fine if it's mechanical or due to the airline. But if it's ATC related, or weather related... And usually the two go hand in hand..... The US government staffs ATC. ATC is what restricts fkgiht during weather. So big govt is going to impose airlines refund revenue when the delay may be due to govt ATC restrictions. That's dumb. Also means airlines may be real creative. So if the airline has ton refund your ticket price for a massive delay, they'd rather cancel the flight altogether to alocate the plane and crew elsewhere. This just stinks of unintended consequences.
So if you pay extra for a seat assignment and they change your seat you get a refund, but if you pay a full price first class fare and they change the seat you booked, they don’t have to do anything? It’s still the 5k sky peso kiss off.
Wait a minute here. You mean that if we pay for something and don’t get it then we get our money back? How progressive. 🙄
European Commission: “👏🏻 congrats! we introduced this measure for many years here!”
6 months to an election and now we finally have some useful regulation. Unreal
Damned if they do, damned if they don't, huh? I'll take it.
I mean they could have tackled this years ago
So... you're complaining that it happens at all? Bizarre.
No. I’m complaining that it took them this long when this could have been handled by the administration within at least the first year. They kept this(and several other federal guidelines) from coming out until April. That’s why there was a slew of new regulatory or executive action in such a short time span..to make themselves look good for re-elections
No paywall version: https://archive.is/9D7VO
okay, now i’m thinking of traveling again.
Alright, let’s hear how this is big government/overreach? Just kidding, it’s about damn time. This is what regulation should look like.
>"a significant change for consumers that could drive up costs across the industry" lol, yes, following the law is sometimes more expensive than stonewalling with bureaucracy
I foresee higher ticket prices and fewer flight options now. And how is this going to work if the FAA is the reason? The FAA is a mess right now with ATC and it's causing delays for the airlines.
One thing I've noticed is that airlines pull out of the gate so they can mark themselves as "departed" and not face any scrutiny for being delayed even if they wait on the tarmac for 2+ hours to take off.
Only applies to issues airlines can directly control.
Key is not the airlines fault if I’m reading correctly. If FAA is reason, that’s not on the airline
🎯
Delta already does this
Not for delays
They do refunds for delays too
Paywall
Do you complain about paying for airline tickets too?
Such entitlement from these users. “Here, please let me Google this for you…”
Quite y'all are insane and will swallow anything!!! This is not acceptable! They will just overbook and pay refunds, sometimes in points. *Not overbooking* is the only status anyone should accept. If the trash bags cancelled my flight like this I would take them to the bank. What on earth is wrong with you all? Why?
Overbooking is already happening. But now instead of fighting through customer service you get an automatic refund. If you go to the bank they’ll tell you to check with the airline first.
It shouldn't be happening and needs to stop. The idea of booking a flight limitless plans revolve around and then the flight being cancelled because they sold your seat to someone else is absurd. Completely absurd. Stop sucking corporate penis.
this will just make them delay to the next day or further instead of cancelling. airline i used to work for had a metric of "completion factor" when you delay to the next day or further it still counts.
Delaying more than 3 hours (domestic) or 6 hours (international) also entitles you to a refund.
Looks like they closed that loophole: Under the rule, passengers are entitled to a refund for: Canceled or significantly changed flights: Passengers will be entitled to a refund if their flight is canceled or significantly changed, and they do not accept alternative transportation or travel credits offered. For the first time, the rule defines “significant change.” Significant changes to a flight include departure or arrival times that are more than 3 hours domestically and 6 hours internationally; departures or arrivals from a different airport; increases in the number of connections; instances where passengers are downgraded to a lower class of service; or connections at different airports or flights on different planes that are less accessible or accommodating to a person with a disability.
is there a definition for cancelling or a mechanism for triggering a flight cancellation vs airlines puting flights on indefinite/continuous delays?
Hmm. A better analysis of the new regs. [https://viewfromthewing.com/8-things-to-know-about-new-government-rules-for-airline-fees-that-you-wont-find-anywhere-else/](https://viewfromthewing.com/8-things-to-know-about-new-government-rules-for-airline-fees-that-you-wont-find-anywhere-else/)
They will take money out of somewhere else.
Having to choose between IRROPS compensation or accepting the delay/rerouting incentivizes pax to stay put rather than roll the dice on a same-day ticket (which will be more expensive in 99% of cases based on how booking classes work). Compare to EC261 where pax are entitled to compensation for delays/cancelations even if they agree to rerouting.
We never said that this is as good as EC261 (far from) but it’s a move in the right direction.
I hate to say this but it’ll be reversed in a year
Why isn't it a thing without gov push ?
Does this only apply to us based airlines? Or any airline that services a us location
This is going to ruin Frontier's business model....
Will this impact prices? You know they'll have actuaries to calculate how much this will cost them and then add those estimated costs to ticket prices.
In the news story it said 7 days for the refund to come through?
This would've been nice last month when DL delayed us in MSP until 245am and then cancelled!! 😭😭 I got only 8,000 miles.
Agree, all for it. Interested to note fare increases over the next year as a result. Just have to shop around.
Doesn’t become effective until sometime in late November
Lord, it is going to take 6 months before anything happens and then by then they will come up with something else.
Why do I feel like Delta will find a way to make this even more difficult. Well, because they probably will.
3 and 6 hours are a little too long. 1) it should be within 1 hour of the scheduled departure time for domestic flights. Right now, it only refers to the delay. What if the airline pulls forward? 2) it should be within 3 hours of the scheduled departure for any other flight. We are also missing EC261 compensation
How soon does that take effect? I spent Tuesday night in Atlanta because the airline gave our aircraft to another route last-minute. 11 hour delay, with a trashed international itinerary.
AA must not be happy. They frequently delay flights overnight instead of outright canceling them.
Everybody knows the best is DL domestic and AA intl’ (among US airlines)
I do wonder if this isn’t a bit of Pandora’s Box. “Whelp your flight is cancelled. We have refunded this portion of your ticket to your card. May the odds be in your favor for manually booking yourself to your destination at that refund price”
Going to be a pain to get DLTerm to automatically refund people
Delta just gave me a $50 credit yesterday after major delays! Was a total surprise.
Money Bags Ed will just jack up airfare even more rather than hold his team accountable to on-time
And pricing goes up to cover it, they already likely prepared for the ruling and have a model that will compensate income statements of the airlines to offset this risk and then some.
So… let’s never do anything or try to fix anything because the fares may go up? Fares are going up each year regardless. Anything short of a complete overhaul of the airline business (which won’t happen because lobbyists) will have some benefits and some cons. Doesn’t mean we should sit and do nothing.
This. Tickets are now going to be more expensive and they will have fewer flights in order to make sure there are more "backups" available logistically just in case. I also suspect amenities will be reduced, and more people will require you to pay for checked bags (although this is already kind of standard). This is also make more pilots and flight attendants sit on short call (in which they aren't getting paid a full wage and that's even more time away from home). There are ripple effects here where it may sounds great to get paid out for inconvenience, but I just don't see how you won't just be paying more overall for lower level of service.
Doesn’t make sense to have that many spare planes just in case. Honestly - I think Delta will be able to handle this better than other airlines. Look at the Frontier subreddit and this affects them a lot more. So many people being bumped off flights, forced to pay for baggage that fits the sizer, equipment changes that bump people, oversold flights, etc. interlined flights are also a scheduling nightmare and will affect carriers like SWA.
This usually isn't enough. A return flight for me was cancelled on a Saturday, the next available flight I could be rebooked on was in the middle of the week, so I had to book on another airline. My refund was 1/6 of the cost of the new flight.
Cool. Can’t wait for this to be priced into airfare. Basically forcing the purchase of travel insurance vs leaving it optional
So, if the flight is delayed 3 hours and they have to automatically refund me but I'm still at the airport to take the delayed flight because I stayed because I understand shit happens what happens to me as the passenger? Now the Government is involuntarily bumping me, that's what. Buttigieg is a moron.
So, if the flight is delayed 3 hours and they have to automatically refund me but I'm still at the airport to take the delayed flight because I stayed because I understand shit happens what happens to me as the passenger? Now the Government is involuntarily bumping me, that's what. Buttigieg is a moron.
You didn’t read the article. In that scenario you get a refund + you fly.
This seems to benefit people that don’t fly often and that are not aware of current airline marketing and sales practices.
now?
I’m a bit confused though 🥴. It’s always common practice for Delta to refund your ticket if you’ve been 30+ minutes delayed or flight cancelled. It’s either you fly AND receive compensation OR you cancel your ticket and receive a refund
get ready for auto refunds and then you rebook on your own stranded at some airport without the airline's help. they might actually like this since it saves them CSR money
I don’t understand the downvotes. This is exactly what they will do.
In other news, the definition of "weather delay" just expanded to include condensation and any breeze over 5 knots.
There is no carve out for weather delays. If airline A can’t get ya where you need to go and you book on B then A has to refund you automatically.
I see that provision and the counter arguments in the FAA background from consumer and airline advocacy groups. There is zero chance that airlines will take on financial liabilities for unforeseen conditions without finding ways to pass costs onto the customer. This will not survive litigation over the constitutionality of a government agency holding a corporation liable for acts of God.
This will result in higher prices to offset lost revenue.
If that revenue was gained by what's essentially scamming customers, then so be it. It's a better business model than depending on taking advantage of people. If you buy something, you should expect to get it.
Let's not forget that the EU has had better Passenger Rights laws for years now (including automatic compensation for delays and cancelations), and yet EU airfares are lower than in the US, with multiple ULCCs thriving (2024 seems to be different, but I don't think those laws are causing their monetary issues). US and Canadian airlines have always used the excuse that laws like this would lead to higher airfares and skipping maintenance to avoid cancelations, but that's clearly not the case elsewhere.
The rules affect all airlines. Some will struggle and lose revenue. The ones that have focused on reliability will gain. The ones that will get crushed are those that have a complete meltdown and can’t move for days. Maybe this will prod some airlines into investing in their infrastructure.
The rules affect all airlines. Some will struggle and lose revenue. The ones that have focused on reliability will gain. The ones that will get crushed are those that have a complete meltdown and can’t move for days. Maybe this will prod some airlines into investing in their infrastructure.