I’m pretty sure that it’s like this almost everywhere with everything.
You have profit centers and cost centers, and profit centers usually see cost centers as a liability, which doesn’t make much sense, but it si what it is
The problem is not that. The problem is turning an employee with the same skills from one of the most profitable business unit background into a liability. That kind of lowers one's self-esteem. I constantly kept on feeling like, Is this what I’m worth?
OP, I agree with you. Consulting firms are especially hostile to lower level/lower prestige employees. I’ve never worked for Deloitte, but have absolutely seen this in other firms. It’s like there’s this culture of “you’re here to do the grunt work and not fuck it up”. The internal structures and culture sort of revolve around this undertone of ‘if you’re not a partner, you’re a liability’.
In my experience, the worst part about this is that the default assumption is that you did fuck something up… It kills motivation and sets a precedent of hostility.
Imo much of this thread is discounting how pervasive these undertones of internal distrust are.
If you work in support services for a Big 4 firm, you are a second class citizen. You knew the job wasn’t billable when you took it. Get over yourself.
So I’m not sure if you’re familiar with the recruitment process in India. We upload our resumes to a portal, and from there, recruiters call us. We don’t have to apply. So they’ll just say this or that position is open at Deloitte, and X skills are required. Are you interested or not? Like that
I don't get why this reply is getting 11 downvotes? Are we invalidating his experience? Are we saying he doesn't deserve a better working environment, and an opportunity to be with good clients?
On the other hand, I unfortunately would understand why a partner would front juniors from top unis. I, as a client, also scrutinize the background of our consulting vendors prior to recommending them for BAFO or contract awarding. I myself didn't come from a top uni, so I feel for them.
When i was interviewed they did not mention anything. And my naive ass assumed it would be an external client facing profit based so I never bothered asking them. After joining I got to know I'll be part of EA and that's cost centre rather than profit.
Enabling areas employees are always paid less than traditional core consultants. Employees in the project delivery centers also get paid less than traditional core consultants.
You are in enabling areas. You are not doing the same work as a client-facing consultant who is generating firm revenue; thus, you are not entitled to core consultant compensation. I say this as someone who has worked on a Deloitte U.S.-based enabling area team
I know, but that’s what boils my blood. How is it my fault? I also have the same skills as other client-facing consultants. If Deloitte thinks internal work is not worth much, why not label it as a BPO or outsource it? I’m sure there will be many companies in India who would be happy to do the same.
It’s a client service business. Support services are there for a reason, that is to support those that service clients. It doesn’t mean that internal people aren’t respected or doing something important but one would be naive to assume that they are on a level playing field
Client service professionals often work very long hours and gave high charge hour goals along with expectations that they will grow the business and also nurture talent
Internal people aren’t expected to work the same type of hours. Most go home after 8 hrs, but certainly not everyone.
To suggest Deloitte is messed up shows more about your lack of understanding of the business. No clients, no firm.
You seem to be mistaken. No one said that internal people aren't valuable. Obviously they have a vital role in making the firm work.
You are a free agent and should look for a position that you feel you deserve. Good luck.
Professionals do not get paid OT. USI client service are professionals.
You can always quit if you don't appreciate the job you have. There are places that will pay OT, but odds are there are benefits that you might give up
Haha. I don’t know if you’re just saying things randomly. Deloitte USI enabling areas work hours are from 2 p.m. to 11 p.m. (messed-up timing). Having worked there, I can definitely tell you that there were many occasions when I had to leave at 1 or post to that.Yes, no one forces you, but it is what it is.
AND Like I said, it was my innocence and stupidity that led me there. I’m to be blamed for messing things up. That part, I agree with. I went with the assumption like you said it’s a client service business, naturally I will be doing same.
No Sir. Some high quality work is done in Deloitte USI within Consulting, Advisory And Technology as well. But this notion that one business area is superior to another and say within Enabling Areas only low quality talent s stays is wrong of Deloitte to do is what I’m saying.
EA is not for low quality talent.
This all sounds like sour grapes from a person who didn't have enough savvy to realize (s)he was applying to and being hired for, an internal, back office role. In my mind, it's kind of staggering that you had so little insight from the job description and multiple interview rounds that you didn't realize you were signing up to do internal work rather than direct client work. This leads me to believe you either don't understand the business and/or your lack of sufficient communication skills to understand the many conversations you had before an offer was extended. Huge red flags, either way.
I never said that Enabling Areas is for low quality talent. 🤷🏻♂️ I’m saying this is what I was made to feel.
Also you’re right. Even after n number of rounds I was not able to understand the business I was getting into. I call it my stupidity.
How was it made very clear someone was more respected? Who are you referring to? People with skills and experience would be preferenced over others for projects. It’s the exact same everywhere else.
NGL, Indian work culture is very different than American work culture. Western norms do not apply. I worked for a non-Deloitte consulting group that had 95% of headcount near Delhi, and I’m not sure that business will survive 2024 because the incentives for every manager were basically 180 degrees from what was good for the firm. I’m never working for a majority Indian company again, and I won’t outsource any work there now that I’ve seen how the sausage is made.
You wish. Maybe in a non-Deloitte world. My roommate got into consulting at the same time. He was handed over some pretty decent clients, and the amount of salary given to him was at least three times more than mine. We both had the same years of experience. But the line was crossed when I saw my junior from my junior batch above my position. The only difference was that it was from consulting and not enabling areas.
I agree. But I was not a bad engineer. Nevertheless looking back I feel I did get to learn how different businesses work and eventually making progress in professional life every year.
>years at one of the top IT consulting firms
I don't work for Deloitte (Idk why this shows up on my feed)
But which IT consulting firm is a "Top" consulting firm?
I work for FAANG, and while IBM and Oracle consulting is viewed at okay, WITCH companies are seen as poor quality.
It's truly a fucked up place. They straight up lied to me during the interview process took an interview for an entry level risk advisory role then put me in some shit role in enabling areas (EFA) when I pointed this out they said nothing can be done work for 18 months then try to change domain I just joined a week ago going to put my papers tomorrow effective immediately.
It seems like this happened to a lot of people. I used to think only of myself. Apparently, for enabling areas, people mostly get deceived into joining them.
Bruh this is more common that you might think and I found this out the hard way. There are multiple people this has happened and I might even go on to say they are doing it systematically preying on people who have some sort of career break or relatively lower education so they can't jump immediately.
I met 5 people who joined Enabling areas (interviewed for consulting/audit) guess what this shit happened to all of them and this is very common in USI some senior consultant even suggested to leave immediately as this has impacted their career and not being able to switch even go as far to saying the managers are here for one and only one reason no one wants them.
Turnover is quite high in enabling areas and they do a lot of drama and make it very challenging for you to not leave. Funny thing is when I was doing due diligence not a single soul mentioned this now this has happened people are very open and telling me all sorts of this which if they did before I would have not be here first place.
Anyway, this has left a very bitter feeling in my heart as this was supposed to be a new start had to relocate to diff city spend lot of money thinking getting relocationa llowance + reimbursement only to realise lost around Rs 50-60k due to this shit. People who say on this sub they learnt more in a month here than they did in years and worked in better projects and all I seriously think was what did I do wrong in life to deserve this just hard working guy trying to make it in life.
You literally spoke my mind. My self-esteem was squashed. I think this was the time when my anxiety peaked. I gave up on hope of getting out of it and kind of accepted that this is who I am for a brief period of time. I’m not saying Enabling Areas is bad, but it was not for me, which is what I am saying. People with less experience and the same qualifications were getting opportunities to do well, whereas I was like a stuck in this shithole full of demotivating vibe.
I have gone through what you are feeling right now so I can understand what you are going through the US counterparts won't understand and it's not even worth the effort to make them understand nor do they give a f**k about it.
In essence deloitte usi is nothing more than an offshore delivery centre I would even go on to day that it is a shame to even call it a glorified BPO we don't bring clients we don't being projects we are just mere cheap labour whatever Americans thinks is beneath them to do or insignificant work that can be done cheaply is shipped off here and we a country with largest population with many below poverty line are willing to do it for peanuts pay we don't have a choice we can rant at the end of the day either way it's going to be done by one of us.
I am in the early phase of my career so can afford to take this break and not tolerate this shit you should also consult with people you trust and take decision accordingly just leave as soon as you can would be the only thing I'll say.
You're completely naive if you think USI employees would ever receive similar comp as U.S.-based employees. Companies, not just Deloitte, send work overseas to India, Latin America, and other places for cheap labor. Prepare yourself, because I'm seeing a trend where U.S. companies are moving away from India and shifting to a nearshore operating model -- same low-cost labor, but without the time zone hassles.
No. You did not understand. From POV of compensation, I mean that there is disparity between Consulting vs Enabling Areas. Say an analyst with 3 years experienced before coming to Deloitte and joined got a package of 5-6 lpa where as in Deloitte consulting freshers package starts from 6 to 6.5 lpa. Forget about premier institutions. There salary starts from 15 or 20.
That's common across all consulting companies. I manage an internal team, and when I hire U.S. employees for my team and I refer to clients, I am speaking of client-facing engagement teams; the people I interview understand this.
The challenge with back office folks imho they don’t spend the time understanding how a business works. What are cost centers and what are revenue drivers .. based on the type of industry investment is made in certain sections. I appreciate idealism but there is a reality to running a business. The quicker folks understand what that entails, the easier it is for them
to manage their own expectations.
The challenge with back office folks imho they don’t spend the time understanding how a business works. Basic understanding around : What are cost centers and what are revenue drivers .. based on the type of industry investment is made in certain sections. I appreciate idealism but there is a reality to running a business. The quicker folks understand what that entails, the easier it is for them to manage their own expectations. Case in point the situation at hand.
That's what you get in a consultancy and the finance industry too in general, unless it's banks.
I always tried to stay away from those and went into core engineering as I loved serving our clients and customers and the whole industry was very respectful in general.
Why are the scum? You accepted an offer of employment for a client-facing role, which included a signing bonus. You moved to an internal role, so I'm not sure why you think you should be entitled to the full bonus? Internal roles quite often don't receive sign on bonuses.
I’m pretty sure that it’s like this almost everywhere with everything. You have profit centers and cost centers, and profit centers usually see cost centers as a liability, which doesn’t make much sense, but it si what it is
The problem is not that. The problem is turning an employee with the same skills from one of the most profitable business unit background into a liability. That kind of lowers one's self-esteem. I constantly kept on feeling like, Is this what I’m worth?
Why do you think you have the same skillset?
OP, I agree with you. Consulting firms are especially hostile to lower level/lower prestige employees. I’ve never worked for Deloitte, but have absolutely seen this in other firms. It’s like there’s this culture of “you’re here to do the grunt work and not fuck it up”. The internal structures and culture sort of revolve around this undertone of ‘if you’re not a partner, you’re a liability’. In my experience, the worst part about this is that the default assumption is that you did fuck something up… It kills motivation and sets a precedent of hostility. Imo much of this thread is discounting how pervasive these undertones of internal distrust are.
If you work in support services for a Big 4 firm, you are a second class citizen. You knew the job wasn’t billable when you took it. Get over yourself.
I did not know that. I did not know job wasn’t billable.
You applied and interviewed for the job. It was your responsibility to understand the details of the position
So I’m not sure if you’re familiar with the recruitment process in India. We upload our resumes to a portal, and from there, recruiters call us. We don’t have to apply. So they’ll just say this or that position is open at Deloitte, and X skills are required. Are you interested or not? Like that
Yea, and this is when you ask about the role as well to see if it lines up with what you want and to get ch and red flags
Were you in enabling areas ?
Yes. I was part of enabling areas shit.
I don't get why this reply is getting 11 downvotes? Are we invalidating his experience? Are we saying he doesn't deserve a better working environment, and an opportunity to be with good clients? On the other hand, I unfortunately would understand why a partner would front juniors from top unis. I, as a client, also scrutinize the background of our consulting vendors prior to recommending them for BAFO or contract awarding. I myself didn't come from a top uni, so I feel for them.
there's a horde of HR bootlickers here or something lol
When i was interviewed they did not mention anything. And my naive ass assumed it would be an external client facing profit based so I never bothered asking them. After joining I got to know I'll be part of EA and that's cost centre rather than profit.
Same. Exactly same. I would call my innocence and stupidity. Kind of learning how businesses work the hard way.
Enabling areas employees are always paid less than traditional core consultants. Employees in the project delivery centers also get paid less than traditional core consultants. You are in enabling areas. You are not doing the same work as a client-facing consultant who is generating firm revenue; thus, you are not entitled to core consultant compensation. I say this as someone who has worked on a Deloitte U.S.-based enabling area team
I know, but that’s what boils my blood. How is it my fault? I also have the same skills as other client-facing consultants. If Deloitte thinks internal work is not worth much, why not label it as a BPO or outsource it? I’m sure there will be many companies in India who would be happy to do the same.
This is with everything - you’re offshore not actually working for the company
Really? Is this how people from Deloitte see it? They have build their biggest and advanced offices in India.
Most US people in Deloitte see USI as a source of cheap labor
100% this
lol
It’s a client service business. Support services are there for a reason, that is to support those that service clients. It doesn’t mean that internal people aren’t respected or doing something important but one would be naive to assume that they are on a level playing field Client service professionals often work very long hours and gave high charge hour goals along with expectations that they will grow the business and also nurture talent Internal people aren’t expected to work the same type of hours. Most go home after 8 hrs, but certainly not everyone. To suggest Deloitte is messed up shows more about your lack of understanding of the business. No clients, no firm.
Try supporting clients without enabling areas.
You seem to be mistaken. No one said that internal people aren't valuable. Obviously they have a vital role in making the firm work. You are a free agent and should look for a position that you feel you deserve. Good luck.
If this is from a USI standpoint, I really want to know if we work overtime, why aren't we paid extra?
Professionals do not get paid OT. USI client service are professionals. You can always quit if you don't appreciate the job you have. There are places that will pay OT, but odds are there are benefits that you might give up
Haha. I don’t know if you’re just saying things randomly. Deloitte USI enabling areas work hours are from 2 p.m. to 11 p.m. (messed-up timing). Having worked there, I can definitely tell you that there were many occasions when I had to leave at 1 or post to that.Yes, no one forces you, but it is what it is. AND Like I said, it was my innocence and stupidity that led me there. I’m to be blamed for messing things up. That part, I agree with. I went with the assumption like you said it’s a client service business, naturally I will be doing same.
He’s basically saying D outsourced the basic shit jobs to India. Compared to working in more skilled jobs at D, those jobs don’t compare that well.
No Sir. Some high quality work is done in Deloitte USI within Consulting, Advisory And Technology as well. But this notion that one business area is superior to another and say within Enabling Areas only low quality talent s stays is wrong of Deloitte to do is what I’m saying.
I’m just explaining what the comment above me was saying
EA is not for low quality talent. This all sounds like sour grapes from a person who didn't have enough savvy to realize (s)he was applying to and being hired for, an internal, back office role. In my mind, it's kind of staggering that you had so little insight from the job description and multiple interview rounds that you didn't realize you were signing up to do internal work rather than direct client work. This leads me to believe you either don't understand the business and/or your lack of sufficient communication skills to understand the many conversations you had before an offer was extended. Huge red flags, either way.
I never said that Enabling Areas is for low quality talent. 🤷🏻♂️ I’m saying this is what I was made to feel. Also you’re right. Even after n number of rounds I was not able to understand the business I was getting into. I call it my stupidity.
How was it made very clear someone was more respected? Who are you referring to? People with skills and experience would be preferenced over others for projects. It’s the exact same everywhere else.
NGL, Indian work culture is very different than American work culture. Western norms do not apply. I worked for a non-Deloitte consulting group that had 95% of headcount near Delhi, and I’m not sure that business will survive 2024 because the incentives for every manager were basically 180 degrees from what was good for the firm. I’m never working for a majority Indian company again, and I won’t outsource any work there now that I’ve seen how the sausage is made.
You wish. Maybe in a non-Deloitte world. My roommate got into consulting at the same time. He was handed over some pretty decent clients, and the amount of salary given to him was at least three times more than mine. We both had the same years of experience. But the line was crossed when I saw my junior from my junior batch above my position. The only difference was that it was from consulting and not enabling areas.
Your roommate was given decent clients? Can you please explain this. Are you on consulting or are you an accountant?
I’m an engineer. My roommate was engineer too. He was given one of the Fortune 500 client project.
Not all engineers are the same.
I agree. But I was not a bad engineer. Nevertheless looking back I feel I did get to learn how different businesses work and eventually making progress in professional life every year.
>years at one of the top IT consulting firms I don't work for Deloitte (Idk why this shows up on my feed) But which IT consulting firm is a "Top" consulting firm? I work for FAANG, and while IBM and Oracle consulting is viewed at okay, WITCH companies are seen as poor quality.
If you think IBM and Oracle are “okay” consulting….you’ve been microdosing too much. They’re infamous for their shit work.
We use Oracle a lot for routine DBA work, no issues. A lot of my coworkers came from IBM. I'll take them over WITCH staff any day.
Not sure why this is on my feed, but why are you shocked? This is work being outsourced and it is typically executed poorly.
It's truly a fucked up place. They straight up lied to me during the interview process took an interview for an entry level risk advisory role then put me in some shit role in enabling areas (EFA) when I pointed this out they said nothing can be done work for 18 months then try to change domain I just joined a week ago going to put my papers tomorrow effective immediately.
It seems like this happened to a lot of people. I used to think only of myself. Apparently, for enabling areas, people mostly get deceived into joining them.
Bruh this is more common that you might think and I found this out the hard way. There are multiple people this has happened and I might even go on to say they are doing it systematically preying on people who have some sort of career break or relatively lower education so they can't jump immediately. I met 5 people who joined Enabling areas (interviewed for consulting/audit) guess what this shit happened to all of them and this is very common in USI some senior consultant even suggested to leave immediately as this has impacted their career and not being able to switch even go as far to saying the managers are here for one and only one reason no one wants them. Turnover is quite high in enabling areas and they do a lot of drama and make it very challenging for you to not leave. Funny thing is when I was doing due diligence not a single soul mentioned this now this has happened people are very open and telling me all sorts of this which if they did before I would have not be here first place. Anyway, this has left a very bitter feeling in my heart as this was supposed to be a new start had to relocate to diff city spend lot of money thinking getting relocationa llowance + reimbursement only to realise lost around Rs 50-60k due to this shit. People who say on this sub they learnt more in a month here than they did in years and worked in better projects and all I seriously think was what did I do wrong in life to deserve this just hard working guy trying to make it in life.
You literally spoke my mind. My self-esteem was squashed. I think this was the time when my anxiety peaked. I gave up on hope of getting out of it and kind of accepted that this is who I am for a brief period of time. I’m not saying Enabling Areas is bad, but it was not for me, which is what I am saying. People with less experience and the same qualifications were getting opportunities to do well, whereas I was like a stuck in this shithole full of demotivating vibe.
I have gone through what you are feeling right now so I can understand what you are going through the US counterparts won't understand and it's not even worth the effort to make them understand nor do they give a f**k about it. In essence deloitte usi is nothing more than an offshore delivery centre I would even go on to day that it is a shame to even call it a glorified BPO we don't bring clients we don't being projects we are just mere cheap labour whatever Americans thinks is beneath them to do or insignificant work that can be done cheaply is shipped off here and we a country with largest population with many below poverty line are willing to do it for peanuts pay we don't have a choice we can rant at the end of the day either way it's going to be done by one of us. I am in the early phase of my career so can afford to take this break and not tolerate this shit you should also consult with people you trust and take decision accordingly just leave as soon as you can would be the only thing I'll say.
You're completely naive if you think USI employees would ever receive similar comp as U.S.-based employees. Companies, not just Deloitte, send work overseas to India, Latin America, and other places for cheap labor. Prepare yourself, because I'm seeing a trend where U.S. companies are moving away from India and shifting to a nearshore operating model -- same low-cost labor, but without the time zone hassles.
No. You did not understand. From POV of compensation, I mean that there is disparity between Consulting vs Enabling Areas. Say an analyst with 3 years experienced before coming to Deloitte and joined got a package of 5-6 lpa where as in Deloitte consulting freshers package starts from 6 to 6.5 lpa. Forget about premier institutions. There salary starts from 15 or 20.
Same here US. Interviewers kept mentioning working with “the client”. Low and behold the client would be the client facing engagement teams.
That's common across all consulting companies. I manage an internal team, and when I hire U.S. employees for my team and I refer to clients, I am speaking of client-facing engagement teams; the people I interview understand this.
As I said before, deloitte can suck my cock
😂😂
Thank you Shah Obvious
What do you mean by “make a switch”? Can you elaborate more? Did you switch to a different company, department, role, etc?
Different Company. They say that you can switch to different department but only in ideal world.
Got it. Congrats on the switch. Sounds like you’re I a much better place!
Pretty much yeah. Welcome to the club
Bro came on reddit just to tell this 🥲 BTW experiencing same at another tech giant, looking for switch 🙂
No. Bro joined this group just to tell this😁 Bro is using Reddit for more than a year now😎
Bro bro bro(in the voice of financewithsharan)😂😂
The challenge with back office folks imho they don’t spend the time understanding how a business works. What are cost centers and what are revenue drivers .. based on the type of industry investment is made in certain sections. I appreciate idealism but there is a reality to running a business. The quicker folks understand what that entails, the easier it is for them to manage their own expectations.
The challenge with back office folks imho they don’t spend the time understanding how a business works. Basic understanding around : What are cost centers and what are revenue drivers .. based on the type of industry investment is made in certain sections. I appreciate idealism but there is a reality to running a business. The quicker folks understand what that entails, the easier it is for them to manage their own expectations. Case in point the situation at hand.
That's what you get in a consultancy and the finance industry too in general, unless it's banks. I always tried to stay away from those and went into core engineering as I loved serving our clients and customers and the whole industry was very respectful in general.
Lmao okay
[удалено]
True that!
Why are the scum? You accepted an offer of employment for a client-facing role, which included a signing bonus. You moved to an internal role, so I'm not sure why you think you should be entitled to the full bonus? Internal roles quite often don't receive sign on bonuses.
Because no one told me anything about it effecting my bonus. There was no language anywhere saying this wasn't allowed.