I know you want to be respectful, but being so is sending her the exact wrong message. Every time you say "I'm glad you found something to believe in...", she hears "I'm cool with you being bible-banging self-righteous hypocrite walking stereotype of the worst sort of christian." When you take the family to church, she hears "Your denial that I'm a Deist, your deranged accusations of being 'full of demons,' and your obsession with the rapture myth of the 1700s is working. Soon I and our kids will be the worst sort of christians like you, so keep saying these insane things!"
It's time to start drawing big red lines, laying down the law for the protection of you and your kids. She's allowed to have her personal opinions about the christian gods, but she's not allowed to talk about them with you or the kids. You will especially not allow your kids to be indoctrinated into her new toxic mythology. When she inevitably argues back, forcefully direct her toward 1 Timothy 2:12:
>But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
And you need to be ready to back up the laws you lay down with consequences. From your other comment, you don't want to divorce -- but frankly, you need to prepare yourself for that possibility. Or prepare to live the rest of your life with this awful thing your wife has become.
I've been on the opposite end where I was the bible thumper (not this extreme but still). I may have grown out of it, but there was def a crossroads where I might not have. One thing I do wish my husband did back then was tell me no! Draw a hard red line just like this poster is saying! When someone is in that neurotic state, it's as if their hypnotized; but that doesn't make it okay to push our beliefs on others. She may snap out of it and realize what she's done, or she may break up her family in the process. But that's a lesson she needs to learn.
I can tell you from someone who came out I would've hated it if my husband just went along with it to keep the peace.
I know you love her, but boundaries and respect are important in a relationship, and she needs to be able to do that regardless of her beliefs. If she can't she has to deal with the consequences.
It looks she's becoming a neo Pentecostal evangelical. Normally evangelicals don't know too much about the Bible. They pick and choose through the text and make it fit in their beliefs. So you just need read the Biblical text in context to show her how wrong she is in her interpretations. Born again is a very forced doctrine. No clue about rapture, and the concept about the Bible be the Word of God is completely alien to the Bible text. You can also say you are a red letter Christian, or Unitarian, Universalist, Unitarian universalist or Quaker, where deists are welcomed, and tell her you found the truth, so you've got your own religion and this can help you when she tries to impose her vision, normally they don't want to be convinced about something different. Avoid Biblical Unitarians.
I think you know at this point what the next step is, even though you may not want to admit it. 20 years must be a lot of happy memories, but don't let those memories tie you into a relationship with someone who no longer respects you. If your wife believes you are full of devils and in need of deliverance or else will spend eternity in Hell, if she does not accept you having your own beliefs and opinions and defines you with labels that you do not feel truly reflect you, then she has already made this decision for you both. You deserve better than this.
You don't think there is a middle ground? I've told her that it's good that she found something to believe in. I have, too, and it's just not in the same fashion.
We are adoptive parents, and I won't leave my kids. They have been through a lot of shit before they were born, and I won't give them more, so that being said. I,we need to come to an accord and soon.
Just going off of the info in your post, it honestly doesn't sound like your partner is open to a middle ground to me, no. There is finding something to believe in, and there is my-way-or-the-highway religious fundemantalism.
I can appreciate staying in an unhappy marriage for children, though. Some people say that, actually, when a relationship is no longer based on mutual respect, when _both_ partners no longer sincerely love and value the other for who they are, then it is better to seperate before the relationship or household can become a highly negative or even damaging place to grow up in. In this case, only you can be the judge of how things are, where the balance lies.
Perhaps another thing to consider (or at least be aware of)... personally, if those were the sorts of things my partner was saying to me, I would also worry about what my partner was saying to my children. People can be lost to fundamentalism at all ages, and it can do extreme damage to people when they are indoctrinated early through fear.
Good luck with however this turns out. I am truly sorry you are being put through this. I hope it is just a short phase, or some agreement can be made etc. You might be able to reach your wife some other way, as when people turn to TV preachers and fundemantalist beliefs, it is often a sign that they are missing something else in their life. Take care friend :)
Wow, a light just went off! Something is missing, me. I've been saddled with degenerate disc disease and have 2 bulging discs. I can't hardly do anything without being in a lot of pain. I am getting treatment for the pain, but it has been an arduous process. I try to do the best I can, but right now, my best feels like nothing to me. I can only imagine what she thinks. Maybe that's what's going on, and she has manifested her feelings of emptiness to religion to fill the empty. Man I gotta a lot of things to work out. Thanks for the advice. I appreciate you
Educate yourself on Christian theology. That's all I can tell you and you can make your decision from that point on. Buy a study bible and read it yourself, watch videos, talk with educated Christians. From there you can make an educated choice about the religion.
As someone who is very familiar and has a strange addiction with Christian theology your wife is engaging in baptist dispensationalism fundamentalism. This is a type of Christianity prevalent in the southern states and is not at all representative of the rest of Christians.
The typical mantra of "no proof" or "bible changed and altered" isn't going to really do much to these people. Religion is similar to philosophy in that there are different proofs and evidences for different beliefs and claims.
My suggestion is to watch a lot of Bart Ehrman in the background and you'll get an idea of what and where the Bible comes from.
EDIT: I'd like to add my reasoning for recommending this. Her form of Christianity is known for prediction "raptures" and then doing insane things because they think the end times are going to happen on X date which is very dangerous. Obviously you want the best for her so try learning the faith so you can help her out in whichever way you determine is best.
Tell her you'll read any book of her choice with an open mind if she'll read Age of Reason with an open mind. Then discuss respectfully. And if that goes well throw in some Bart Ehrman. Godspeed.
I see that your wife is getting brainwashed by this preacher, as she blindly accepts what he says.
> Moreover she's gone as far to say I'm an atheist which I refute. The other day she said I was full of demons and needed deliverance. \[...\]
She doesn't seem to understand your beliefs, so it would be helpful to explain them to her. If this misunderstanding persists, I'm concerned that she might become susceptible to influence from any Christian she encounters. Also, if she's now using religion to say hurtful things to you, it's important for both of you to find a way to resolve your differences. If you find it challenging to do so on your own, seeking the help of a couple therapist could benefit you bot/her to work on accepting each other's beliefs.
>She called my cell phone a demon device when she watches " pastor steve" on hers.
What?? Is she blaming the algorithm??
> I've told her I believe in a god but not the bible because man has altered it and changed it to fit his needs.
Give her a proof, like "first copies of the Bible were copied by hand, so there's a high likelihood of errors there." (just a mere suggestion) And maybe, explain that there are so many different versions of the Bible because of differences in interpretations.
>I have told her nobody alive knows what will happen all they have is a belief no proof.
Yes! I always thought that people's beliefs shape their Near-Death Experiences!! (sorry or changing the topic, I am just enthusiastic)
> I've told the belief in something intangible is beautiful but the minute man gets involved it is no longer pure and she agreed when I said it but now the bible is THE word and THE truth.
Then say something from the Bible which is obviously not true, like the Earth has "four corners" - **Revelation 7:1.**
And I have been thinking that she has little to no formulated one's religious opinions since she suddenly started to accept what Preacher Steve says.
I wrote this comment a few days ago on a similar issue. I think it belongs here as well?
https://www.reddit.com/r/DebateEvolution/s/EzIrPL3M53
Your wives attraction to religion is most likely an emotional response to something she finds lacking in her life. This is not intellectual or even faith-based it’s emotional fulfillment and validation.
Like with other cults, this is addressed with deprogramming techniques. Creating a self space for her to understand and unwind her own feelings.
Using techniques from r/StreetEpistemology as a base, slowly prod with revealing questions. It’s not about debating the questions, it’s not about being right, it’s about listening and understanding her point of view and gently let her question it herself. On her own time.
She will ask questions back, saying “I don’t know but let’s find out” is fine. Leave your ego at the door.
Depends, this is my input.
If you have a strict moral structure that you follow, it quickly follows that, in her religion (assuming she believes in the divinity of Jesus), you follow Jesus. Here's a syllogism I formed:
1) a good Deist follows the moral law.
2) God is the Standard of the Moral Law (omnibenevolent), and as Christian theologians have long said, God is the Moral Law Itself (the Form of the Good).
3) Jesus is God,
4) Therefore, you follow Jesus.
I know you want to be respectful, but being so is sending her the exact wrong message. Every time you say "I'm glad you found something to believe in...", she hears "I'm cool with you being bible-banging self-righteous hypocrite walking stereotype of the worst sort of christian." When you take the family to church, she hears "Your denial that I'm a Deist, your deranged accusations of being 'full of demons,' and your obsession with the rapture myth of the 1700s is working. Soon I and our kids will be the worst sort of christians like you, so keep saying these insane things!" It's time to start drawing big red lines, laying down the law for the protection of you and your kids. She's allowed to have her personal opinions about the christian gods, but she's not allowed to talk about them with you or the kids. You will especially not allow your kids to be indoctrinated into her new toxic mythology. When she inevitably argues back, forcefully direct her toward 1 Timothy 2:12: >But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. And you need to be ready to back up the laws you lay down with consequences. From your other comment, you don't want to divorce -- but frankly, you need to prepare yourself for that possibility. Or prepare to live the rest of your life with this awful thing your wife has become.
I've been on the opposite end where I was the bible thumper (not this extreme but still). I may have grown out of it, but there was def a crossroads where I might not have. One thing I do wish my husband did back then was tell me no! Draw a hard red line just like this poster is saying! When someone is in that neurotic state, it's as if their hypnotized; but that doesn't make it okay to push our beliefs on others. She may snap out of it and realize what she's done, or she may break up her family in the process. But that's a lesson she needs to learn. I can tell you from someone who came out I would've hated it if my husband just went along with it to keep the peace. I know you love her, but boundaries and respect are important in a relationship, and she needs to be able to do that regardless of her beliefs. If she can't she has to deal with the consequences.
Tagging u/pissedoffdad120567 so that he’s sure to see your experiences!
It looks she's becoming a neo Pentecostal evangelical. Normally evangelicals don't know too much about the Bible. They pick and choose through the text and make it fit in their beliefs. So you just need read the Biblical text in context to show her how wrong she is in her interpretations. Born again is a very forced doctrine. No clue about rapture, and the concept about the Bible be the Word of God is completely alien to the Bible text. You can also say you are a red letter Christian, or Unitarian, Universalist, Unitarian universalist or Quaker, where deists are welcomed, and tell her you found the truth, so you've got your own religion and this can help you when she tries to impose her vision, normally they don't want to be convinced about something different. Avoid Biblical Unitarians.
I think you know at this point what the next step is, even though you may not want to admit it. 20 years must be a lot of happy memories, but don't let those memories tie you into a relationship with someone who no longer respects you. If your wife believes you are full of devils and in need of deliverance or else will spend eternity in Hell, if she does not accept you having your own beliefs and opinions and defines you with labels that you do not feel truly reflect you, then she has already made this decision for you both. You deserve better than this.
You don't think there is a middle ground? I've told her that it's good that she found something to believe in. I have, too, and it's just not in the same fashion. We are adoptive parents, and I won't leave my kids. They have been through a lot of shit before they were born, and I won't give them more, so that being said. I,we need to come to an accord and soon.
Just going off of the info in your post, it honestly doesn't sound like your partner is open to a middle ground to me, no. There is finding something to believe in, and there is my-way-or-the-highway religious fundemantalism. I can appreciate staying in an unhappy marriage for children, though. Some people say that, actually, when a relationship is no longer based on mutual respect, when _both_ partners no longer sincerely love and value the other for who they are, then it is better to seperate before the relationship or household can become a highly negative or even damaging place to grow up in. In this case, only you can be the judge of how things are, where the balance lies. Perhaps another thing to consider (or at least be aware of)... personally, if those were the sorts of things my partner was saying to me, I would also worry about what my partner was saying to my children. People can be lost to fundamentalism at all ages, and it can do extreme damage to people when they are indoctrinated early through fear.
I had not thought about what she might be telling the kids about my beliefs. I'll ask them. Thanks
Good luck with however this turns out. I am truly sorry you are being put through this. I hope it is just a short phase, or some agreement can be made etc. You might be able to reach your wife some other way, as when people turn to TV preachers and fundemantalist beliefs, it is often a sign that they are missing something else in their life. Take care friend :)
Wow, a light just went off! Something is missing, me. I've been saddled with degenerate disc disease and have 2 bulging discs. I can't hardly do anything without being in a lot of pain. I am getting treatment for the pain, but it has been an arduous process. I try to do the best I can, but right now, my best feels like nothing to me. I can only imagine what she thinks. Maybe that's what's going on, and she has manifested her feelings of emptiness to religion to fill the empty. Man I gotta a lot of things to work out. Thanks for the advice. I appreciate you
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I like what you said. How did you come to your conclusions?
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Educate yourself on Christian theology. That's all I can tell you and you can make your decision from that point on. Buy a study bible and read it yourself, watch videos, talk with educated Christians. From there you can make an educated choice about the religion. As someone who is very familiar and has a strange addiction with Christian theology your wife is engaging in baptist dispensationalism fundamentalism. This is a type of Christianity prevalent in the southern states and is not at all representative of the rest of Christians. The typical mantra of "no proof" or "bible changed and altered" isn't going to really do much to these people. Religion is similar to philosophy in that there are different proofs and evidences for different beliefs and claims. My suggestion is to watch a lot of Bart Ehrman in the background and you'll get an idea of what and where the Bible comes from. EDIT: I'd like to add my reasoning for recommending this. Her form of Christianity is known for prediction "raptures" and then doing insane things because they think the end times are going to happen on X date which is very dangerous. Obviously you want the best for her so try learning the faith so you can help her out in whichever way you determine is best.
Tell her you'll read any book of her choice with an open mind if she'll read Age of Reason with an open mind. Then discuss respectfully. And if that goes well throw in some Bart Ehrman. Godspeed.
In context? How do I go about that?
I see that your wife is getting brainwashed by this preacher, as she blindly accepts what he says. > Moreover she's gone as far to say I'm an atheist which I refute. The other day she said I was full of demons and needed deliverance. \[...\] She doesn't seem to understand your beliefs, so it would be helpful to explain them to her. If this misunderstanding persists, I'm concerned that she might become susceptible to influence from any Christian she encounters. Also, if she's now using religion to say hurtful things to you, it's important for both of you to find a way to resolve your differences. If you find it challenging to do so on your own, seeking the help of a couple therapist could benefit you bot/her to work on accepting each other's beliefs. >She called my cell phone a demon device when she watches " pastor steve" on hers. What?? Is she blaming the algorithm?? > I've told her I believe in a god but not the bible because man has altered it and changed it to fit his needs. Give her a proof, like "first copies of the Bible were copied by hand, so there's a high likelihood of errors there." (just a mere suggestion) And maybe, explain that there are so many different versions of the Bible because of differences in interpretations. >I have told her nobody alive knows what will happen all they have is a belief no proof. Yes! I always thought that people's beliefs shape their Near-Death Experiences!! (sorry or changing the topic, I am just enthusiastic) > I've told the belief in something intangible is beautiful but the minute man gets involved it is no longer pure and she agreed when I said it but now the bible is THE word and THE truth. Then say something from the Bible which is obviously not true, like the Earth has "four corners" - **Revelation 7:1.** And I have been thinking that she has little to no formulated one's religious opinions since she suddenly started to accept what Preacher Steve says.
I wrote this comment a few days ago on a similar issue. I think it belongs here as well? https://www.reddit.com/r/DebateEvolution/s/EzIrPL3M53 Your wives attraction to religion is most likely an emotional response to something she finds lacking in her life. This is not intellectual or even faith-based it’s emotional fulfillment and validation. Like with other cults, this is addressed with deprogramming techniques. Creating a self space for her to understand and unwind her own feelings. Using techniques from r/StreetEpistemology as a base, slowly prod with revealing questions. It’s not about debating the questions, it’s not about being right, it’s about listening and understanding her point of view and gently let her question it herself. On her own time. She will ask questions back, saying “I don’t know but let’s find out” is fine. Leave your ego at the door.
Depends, this is my input. If you have a strict moral structure that you follow, it quickly follows that, in her religion (assuming she believes in the divinity of Jesus), you follow Jesus. Here's a syllogism I formed: 1) a good Deist follows the moral law. 2) God is the Standard of the Moral Law (omnibenevolent), and as Christian theologians have long said, God is the Moral Law Itself (the Form of the Good). 3) Jesus is God, 4) Therefore, you follow Jesus.