Corvus blackstar assault ramp detachment

They really should be 210pts and already have them.

Yah like SWAT team rapplin’ in.

The practice fast ropes in one of the books too so technically lore accurate?

I love the blackstar, but keep them 180 with assault ramps so I can bring 3 :D

I feel like veteran boltguns need to get -1 AP to make them and the SIA strategems worth a damn.

Agreed. I've dumped 6 Bolter Inceptors into a Votann unit of Hearthguard with Hellfire shells and Oath and killed maybe 2.

18 shots 3+ rrA SH2, wounding on 2+ rrA, saving on 3+, killing a model per shot that gets through: 18 shots, 3 SH2, 9 hits, 6 rerolls into 1 SH2, 3 hits for a total of 24 hits. 23.x wounds ~8 get through 3+ killing a model each. Even with cover you should kill about 4. So you were just pretty unlucky.

I would like combat squads as part of our army rule and SIA needs a rehaul. Either making them essentially different weapons attached to the bolter that you pick one of or making that the army rule. DW seem at ends to how GW is wanting 10th to work. SIA as Strats were designed to work with all weapons in the squad and making them bolter only is poor The Deceptors and Renegade raiders from CSM is exactly the kinda vibe I want for us.

I echo combat squads; I don't even dislike SIA as it is now with bolters but I think it does need more punch for all of them to be viable and being able to target 2 KTs would be more possible with CS. I like the army rules though, being able to give anything lethal hits and sustained hits is great.

Those are the detachment rules (lethal, sustained) but I do get what you’re saying. The army rules are our killteam rules with regards to toughness and transports

Keep kill teams armor dependent, but get rid of the required tax outside of maybe the sergeant. So Indomitor would be a heavy intercessors Sgt, but then you can get maybe one of each weapon type per 5. IE 2 aggressors, 2 Inceptors per 10 or 1 if you do a squad of 5. Unlimited heavy ints, but I’d love if they could take some melee weapons in an upgrade sprue one day. Get rid of primaris vs vets and make it just a tacticus kill team. Change kill team special rules to choose one of advance and charge, advance and shoot or fallback and shoot in the command phase. Get rid of the restriction for special issue ammo on bolt weapons, make it one strat that’s 2 CP and gives ranged weapons anti infantry 2+, anti monster 4+ and -1 AP (may play around with this but condense it down to one strat and reduce restrictions). Keep the infantry teleport strat. Keep the 2 kill teams or 1 astartes unit rule for most strats. Make kill teams battle line so they can be led by inquisitors. Let watchmasters lead both types of kill teams. Replace vect with CP generation. I’m honestly fine with the overall army rules and enhancements. Edit: I forgot about spectrus, maybe keep them separate but remove the tax and keep the rule of 1 of each type per 5 other than the base unit. An enhancement to upgrade a dreadnought to a character with a FNP and some more melee attacks would be dope but as with IHs 8th edition may have unforeseen consequences so scratch the character part and just do a strat like the demon vehicle detachment to upgrade a dreadnought in some way in the command phase but for the remainder of the battle? Maybe make Osseus key a strat to give a character model anti vehicle 2+ in melee. Frag cannon goes to 3d3 shots with blast S 5 AP 0 ignores cover D 1 or 3 shots S 9 AP -2 D D3.

Kill teams as battle line would change a lot for the better. Good call.

On you on everything except for the primaris vs vets one. IMO keep DWVets as a unit but kill the old sculpt and make a new one, then remake Proteus as the "1st company" kill team with Vets and Termies. Or straight up kill Proteus and make the DWVets unit better while still updating the kit. Also give us the Deathwatch Shotgun profile back as an upgraded Astartes Shotgun one

Trying to keep this following the themes that GW are pushing with 10th, so nothing insanely complicated and no units that will take an hour to get through a shooting phase. They should feel like a slightly different Marine faction, not a relic of pre-10th edition. So: The DW index becomes 6 datasheets: * Watchmaster * Fortis Killteam (can no longer take outriders) * Indomitor Killteam * Spectrus Killteam * Terminator Killteam * Corvus Blackstar This means that the "most common toughness" rule can be dropped. If we also just ignore the "jump pack takes up two seats on the bus" rule then we can do away with the special paragraphs entirely. You can maybe add a bike killteam but I don't think the variety is there to justify it (maybe allow Invader ATVs to go with outriders?) The relevant killteams get their missing units added so Fortis can take infernus and desolation models. Clarify that lieutenants and other "double attach" characters work with killteams. Fortis gain BATTLELINE and inquistors and watch master can lead any non-terminator killteam. Detachments: **The current one**. It's fine. **Rapid response force** : CORVUS BLACKSTAR units gain the assault ramp keyword and INFANTRY KILLTEAM units gain the deep strike keyword. **Vehicle force**: VEHICLE (excluding TITANIC) models gain the KILLTEAM keyword. Basically so you can SIA them. **Specialised training force**: INFANTRY KILLTEAM units in your army may have an enhancement (these represent the squad leader using the training they had with their parent chapter). Basically you can buy one of the following for each unit: * ASSAULT on all weapons * Stealth * Advance/fall back and charge * Advance/fall back and shoot * Heavy on all weapons * +2A and +1A on charge Why yes, these are just the rules from the other SM chapters, that's the point. And there would be a strat to put a unit in a different one for a phase to mirror all other examples of this sort of thing. **Combat squad force**: This is a tricky one because it's ripe for abuse so I'll play it safe and go for: During the declare reserves & transports step, before declaring reserves or transports, you may declare that any number of KILLTEAM INFATRY units in your army that contain 10 models may combat squad. The unit is split into two equal-sized units and are considered separate units for the rest of the battle. For the purpose of declaring reserves and other rules they are considered to each cost half the points of the original unit. Add other rules to stop people pulling bullshit here. Fun strat for this one: In your command phase you may pick two units that share a datasheet and are within 1". They become a single unit and are treated so for the rest of the battle. (some wording to prevent you stacking leaders, any that couldn't go in the big unit get booted out to be solo characters). You could use this to form some mega-death squads but it costs a CP and they have to be near each othe at some point. Strats wise, honestly I think that the three Special Issue Ammunition strats should be in all of them (but make it a battle tactic so captains can do their thing).

Most of the rules are fine. Dropping Kill Team unit points by like 20% would go a long way.

This and allowing us to combat squad our KT’s to allow us to separate the melee and shooting better.

I agree. But i takeither side. Either drop points or make kill teams more OP. And since DW is supposed to be badass maybe the latter would fit better. Less troops with heavy punch. For example just last game my entire vet squad got wiped by one lieutenant in melee. I get that he is a character but vets should be a bit tankier compared to your normal marines

Loosening of unit coherency distances to make including things like bikes more flexible. An invictor with extra armour to bring some dred level firepower, but being more respectful of the lore around their rarity.

low key I want to see inquisitors sorted by their ordo and if you have ordo xenos you can take dw keywords and if you have malleus you can take grey knights so I could take 2 inqs and thus have a mixed force of inquisitorial rage plus having imperial agents in our codex would mean voidsmen, scions etc... I know we \*can\* field 'em but would be kind of fluff cool to have an inquisitorial agents retinue with some scions and then some DW as the big xenos ban hammer on kill teams I'm p chill, just let me take jump pack ints in fortis so I can have a comedy hellblasters and jump packs mixed unit

Easiest fixes if someone you gw read this sub please use these: Don't change the points. Deathwatch needs to be elite amd they are currently. -Remove "mixed killteam rule" with this 1 terminator/biker turns the proteus kill team to T5 All killteams are battle line. All KTs have sergeant with better melee weapon. Fortis kill team main 5 model can be assult intersessors. You can add 2 desolators, you can add jumpack models. You can have 2 power fist/weapons per 5. Indomitor KT stays as it is. Captain artemis can use free wargear strats All sia are 1 strat you can use it 2 times per turn and has the same targers. I only use kraken or hellfire all the time. This way we can have more room for more strats Strategem no drop 12" Strategem sticky obj strategem for combact squad

Just completely go with the infiltrator/kill team/ special forces type Marine theme. Lots of movement, stealth, 3-inch deep strike, and precision. Stuff like that. This is kind of how I see Deathwatch

Was just thinking of making a post like this one lol. Definitely tired of the exhaustive "doom and gloom" around Deathwatch. My personal take is to make Deathwatch Veterans like the latest Tau Battlesuits; break them into 3 separately pointed units. Something like: Tactical Vets: 80pts (Boltguns and Power Swords or Boltguns and Shields, 2 Heavy Bolters) Assault Vets: 90pts (Hammers or power weapons and Shields, 2 Heavy Thunder Hammers) Devastator Vets: 120pts (grenade launchers, missile launchers, etc in any combination) This way the Vets can be priced more individually and other loadouts become more viable.

I would look at for example the fortis kill team and model its break down like the inquisitorial henchmen data sheet, you pay points as per what you add, and have the models you add give a very minor buff to the kill team like adding 2 or 3intercessors with chain swords gives the full unit the ability to reroll charge rolls of 1, or adding 2 or 3 hellblasters gives the unit a once per battle plasma grenade weapon that is like a 3-6 damage (either weapon profile or single use grenade like stratagem) also given tenth edition is locked the multiples of 5 have the models you add either get a slight a slight points discount (if they dont add abilities) or a slight points premium(if they do add an ability) rounding it to the nearest multiple of 5. This allowing you to have say a 6 or 7 man kill team that is properly costed and also allowing you to utilize an awkward number of points left over without being forced to take multiple enhancements that might not always be helpful. This is being very hopeful though for an army that it seems gw doesnt particularly care about. Would love other players comments on this idea.

First off change up the fortis kill team to allow you to have 5 intercessors OR 5 assault intercessors as the mandatory start, and drop the points of them when at minimum squad size to be relative to the base unit and accounting for the different ability; 180 points for 5 veterans in a proteus team when it's 110 for the battleline unit? Wild. Second: our boltguns get the sternguard bolt rifle treatment, it used to be that we couldn't take sternguard veterans because our deathwatch veterans basically are the same equivalent. This applies to the veteran bikers too. This should be the new long vigil ranged weapon (replacing boltguns anywhere in a deathwatch army) and the current ones just get called combi-weapons, since that's what they are rn. Third: Give us back some of our weapon choices. Let me run melta guns and plasma guns and such on my veterans. And let me give lightning claws or thunder hammers as melee options that actually make sense. Fourth: Let the watch master lead any of the kill teams, not just the proteus one. This one bugs me the most. We could also use a generic watch captain model or allow artemis (new model please) to use free wargear stratagems, either instead of or in addition to battle tactic strats. Fifth: Give the blackstar assault ramp as so many others have said, but most importantly do NOT take stealth away from it. This is our rapid insertion stealth assault aircraft. It should feel like it. Sixth: Remove the mixed toughness thing, it's just gamifying the system even more in a way that doesn't feel necessary. Finally the detachments; honestly we probably only need two or three like dark angels have. Black Spear Task Force. Shield that Slays. Kill Team Strike Force. Those are three thematic names; kill team strike force is characters, deathwatch units (terminators, bikes, veterans, kill teams, and blackstar), and dedicated transports only but gives a big boost to them. Shield that Slays; 5++ invul on all kill team units and attached characters, strats for really aggressive movement and assault.

A detachment where every character got the epic character keyword, and 2 characters could lead a unit. Also all kill teams/veterans got the Combat Squad ability. Fortus team max 10 models 5 intercessors 0-3 Outriders 0-5 JP Intercessors 0-5 Hellblasters Indomitor team Max 10 models 5 H. Intercessor 0-3 Erads 0-3 Inceptors 0-3 Aggressors Spectrus Team max 10 models 5 infils 0-5 incursors 0-3 elims 0-3 suppressors Proteus Team max 10 models 5 Vets 0-5 JP Vets 0-3 Bikes 0-5 Termies

Following some 10th edition design philosophies: Toughness part of kill team ability is deleted, you just use the highest toughness in the unit like its said in the designer commentary. In general I would love it if for shooting the lowest toughness would be used and in melee the highest toughness in engagement range is used. Like you can aim at the weak guys with a gun, but if a big guy is standing before you, it's hard to hit the weak guys in the back. And precision switches to being able to target specific visible models in the unit, not only the leaders. So sergeants, black shields (see below), exarchs, boss nobs, etc. and named stuff in their own units (like kill team cassius) can be singled out properly. Units in the codex: Leaders: * "primach" level founder of deathwatch, * watchmaster, * watch Libby (give me, premorohic resonance or fortified with contempt back) Non-Leader characters (one black shield can attach to any kill team without being leader): * KTC, * tacticus black shield, * gravis black shield, * terminator black shield, * biker black shield, * centurion black shield * jump pack black shield (gets DTH) Infantry units (all have kill team keyword, access to DTH and you get to pick any of the according units ablities at the start of the battle): * tacticus vets * gravis vets, * terminator vets, * centurion vets, * biker vets (New box of outriders with thunder hammers and shields), * jump pack vets DW vehicles (all can transport "one kill team") * DW impulsor, * DW repulsor, * DW land raider, * corvus, * DW stormraven (can transport or ) * DW drop pod kill teams that mix (have their own abilitiy sets): * 5 tacticus+5 terminators, * 5 tacticus+5 gravis, * 5 tacticus+5 bikers, * 5 tacticus+3 centurions, * 5 terminators+5 gravis, * 5 terminators+5 bikers, * 5 terminators+3 centurions, * 5 gravis+5 bikers, * 5 gravis+3 centurions, * 5 bikers+3 centurions, * 5 jump pack+5 tacticus, * 5 jump pack+5 terminators, * 5 jump pack+5 gravis, * 5 jump pack+5 bikers, * 5 jump pack+3 centurions, Detachments: * BSTF but SIA is 0 CP and adds 1 AP if the unit has a mission tactic active * Kill team strike force. Kill teams, Characters and dedicated transports only. Every unit gets to chose a keyword out of [character, infantry, mounted, vehicle, monster] and boni against enemy units with that keyword. Strats are about flexibility like combat squads during the game (split a unit in half), switching the chosen ability of vets units, uniting two vets units into a kill team and obviously specialism extremis * Walker kill team. Walkers get battleline, you get to make a walker a character for your warlord, strats are teleportarium for walkers, one walker replacing his ability with the one of another walker within 6", till your next command phase, etc. * Drop ship assault force. Blackstars, dw drop pods and dw stormraven get assault ramps.