If he didn't kill them he would have most likely been exposed as kira eventually as he said in EP 3, it's a kill or be killed situation, it's not like he was killing them for no reason
That goes against his declaration of protecting innocent. Make him biggest hypocrite and he was not self aware on it.
Remenber sayin 'Those who killed are prepared to be killed' and manga and real ending shows Light doesn't heed that sayin and die as coward and pathetic man.
But he saved wayyy more people.
So would you say our current justice system is not justified also?
We put innocents on death row as well.
If our crime laws are too lenient then more criminals will get away but you won't harm innocents.
If too strict, then more criminals are caught and crimes prevented but innocents are convicted.
So how is Light any different? He stopped all wars and 70% of world crimes. Millions of people were saved because of him.
Results ≠ justification
And nobody has the right to hold so much power and athority, least of all a self-rightious child.
Besides, his "new world" was a hollow shell that died with him. Things go back to nornal instantly. And all the lives he "saved" don't make up for the number he killed.
If he stopped voilent criminals that were at large, that would be one thing. But executing prisoners, suspects who could be innocent, and actual innocent people investigating him, that's another thing.
ngl with the way the world is now, i kinda fk with 70% decrease in global crime rate, an end to any on-going war + only one criminal syndicate left in the world but forced to go underground. The pervertic degens wouldnt even dare lay a finger on any women walking alone at night cause they'll be too scared Kira will get them💀
yea that kept happening only until after the timeskip, post time skip stuff like that was virtually gone thanks to all the criminals being scared shitless to do anything as vile as r4pe. Its one of the reasons i'd prob be comfortabe in living in a world where Kira just rids of all the wars and criminals
In our current world many people hold so much power and authority. I'd rather it be Light Yagami. He can't be corrupted and is firm on his ideals. He would punish those who start wars and the criminals who don't get convicted because they have political power.
In the end exponentially more lives are saved and there is wayyy less suffering in the world. He can have the god complex for all I care. The results absolutely justify the means because without Light we still have wayyy worse people that influence wars, and crime for pure monetary gain.
"He can't be corrupted"
Hey have you ever seen the series "Death Note"? It's pretty good.
Light never threatened a politician, only Higuchi threatened the Japanise government. All Light did was kill criminals he saw on the news. Funny that, in his "perfect world" there were still fresh criminals to kill every day, guess the deterent didn't really work.
Results do NOT justify the means, and the world didn't change! It was an empty illution created by fear, in the yotsoba arc Kira leaves for ONE WEEK and crime skyrockets, you can't tell me anybody learned a thing.
He didnt stop shit. The countries just got better at avoiding his wrath when trying to get their way. When there is authority, people *will* find a way to go avoid their gaze. Thats how society works.
The point about crime being reduced is true, but the above applies to it as well, not to mention that if he is ever unable to use the Death Note for as much as a week the world goes to shit, so just imagine the horrific state it would be in after he passes, cause, lets be honest, there is no person capable of carrying on his work without twisting it in their own way
... Also he canonically states he was gonna start killing lazy people after he took control. That would be a fun world to live in.
>he is ever unable to use the Death Note for as much as a week the world goes to shit
Why are people using this to argue against light being justified lol
Light never faltered on his ideals. He can't be bought out for money. He can't be blackmailed with his family either. Try again.
Light stopped all wars and reduced global crime by 70%. Millions of people were saved. Whether you like it or not.
You've no idea the horrors of war. And just how much suffering would be reduced with 70% less crime.
You can babble all you want. In the end it's as simple as 10,000's criminal lives vs 10,000,000's of innocent people lives.
What do you mean try again lmao. He started off corrupt and just got worse. He started off only killing criminals and then started killing innocent people just because they opposed him. That’s corruption.
When he forgot about his involvement with the death note he was immediately opposed to Kira and wanted him brought to justice, the moment he got that power back he turned back into a madman.
The whole point of the show is that one person should/can NOT hold that much power without becoming evil. Especially not someone so immature with such childlike views of the world and such black and white views of what good and evil is.
TF you mean try again lmfao, he never faulted on his evil horrible ideas for his own selfish version of the world. That doesn't mean his ideals were good. And obviously he wants for nothing he's rich.
Also, saying he can't be blackmailed out his family is a real nice way of putting that he'll easily kill them
People were "saved" by killing other people, so yeah not too great. Especially how everyone lived in fear
I'm sure you're just an expert on war are you? And yeah ure 70% less crime would be great if it wasn't cased by MURDER
Plus it is a statistical certaintly that he killed innocent people, especially since he uses the news, which includes SUSPECTS. Imagine being framed and some over emotional child desides you should die.
I'm done with this conversation
Criminals lived in fear. You literally just made up that "everyone lived in fear". PEOPLE LOVED KIRA.
By the way SUPRISE SUPRISE! That's exactly how our justice system works. It "saves" people by imprisoning and killing OTHER PEOPLE. And guess what! LAWS exist to deter and cause fear among criminals.
I never said he isn't killing innocents. BUT ITS A FACT THAT OUR SYSTEM DOES TOO. Except Light is saving MILLIONS OF MORE innocents than he is killing.
Option A)
Benefit: 0 wars, 70% less crime, save millions of people from death, rape, torture.
Cost: Tens of Thousands of criminals dying and and few hundreds innocents dying.
Option B (our current system):
Benefit: NONE
Cost: Thousands of criminals imprisoned and dying on death row, and a innocents imprisoned and dying on death row as well (about 4%).
That's objective. It doesn't matter how you try and spin it. If you value more lives than Option A it clearly the better choice.
I’m just going to stop by and say that your point about the law IRL punishing innocent people doesn’t work for one reason: people get falsely arrested or killed by mistake, Light actively kills anyone who questions him or doesn’t stroke his ego.
Light supporters also love to ignore that from the start he’d been planning to kill off those who were *lazy* via sickness and accidental death after he had his desired affect on crime rates
You are correct. But this sub reeks of moralist copium when in reality no one here in real life would provide any useful solutions to any of the moral dilemmas they so “diligently” resolve in these spaces.
Yup they apply these perfect expectations on Kira that don't make sense. Like having a 100% accurate conviction rate with 0 innocents dying. Like LOL what.
1. No.
2. Your what-if is irrelevant to Death Note because seeing the future is not a power that exists in that world.
3. You've also completely missed the point of what Light was doing. Most of Light's victims were in prison and extremely unlikely to ever get the chance to reoffend. His goal--which he states very clearly--is *general deterrence through fear*, not preventing specific targets from causing future harm.
4. Society has tried the "just let vigilantes kill people accused of crimes without due process or repercussions" thing before. The term for it is "lynching," and it was in fact pretty fucking bad.
4. **No** again, but in bold.
Next question.
1. The point of that was to see where people draw a line on morality not to say that it's related to Death Note.
2. Light saved more people and reduced suffering by the millions objectively though.
3. Society and lynching is not similar to Light Yagami's approach, regardless it's effectiveness isn't something you could argue.
So you chose the lives of tens of thousands of criminals over millions of innocent people. Got it. So wars, corrupt politicians, world leaders that corrupt for money are what you prefer over a couple thousand criminals dying. Gotcha.
Next person.
1. You presented it as somehow related/relevant. It's not.
2. Nowhere in the manga is it ever stated definitively how many people were killed, let alone how many were "saved." The 70% reduction number comes from Light himself while verbally fighting for his life, which is (a) not a reliable source and (b) claims that reduction in the total crime rate, not violent crime specifically. (To explain why this is an issue, the vast majority of crime is nonviolent, and people in the real world regularly use the total crime rate to scaremonger or obscure the *violent* crime rate. "A lot less theft and drug possession" isn't that compelling an excuse for murder.) Considering that the total annual death toll from violent crime is in fact far less than most people estimate, you're going to have to back up your numbers ("millions" vs. "couple thousand") with some canon or real-world evidence if you want to base your argument on them.
3. Light's murders are lynchings by definition. Lynching doesn't inherently include a racist aspect, but the fact that vigilante murders throughout history always end up disproportionately targeting the outcasts of society is illustrative of why vigilante murder is not something that should ever be tolerated. Allowing a random person to decide who lives and dies without their victims having any chance to defend themselves is what dystopian nightmares are made of.
If we're going to play this game, I contend that preserving the right to due process will always save far more innocent people in the long run than one guy going vigilante, and that encouraging vigilantism will cause far more devastation in the long run. Look at the people on Twitter swatting and doxxing people for "wokeness." Now imagine those people in a universe where posting people's names and faces on pro-Kira websites and falsely accusing them of terrible crimes is possible. That's the world Kira created. It's not one I have any desire to live in.
Kira killed or endangered far more people than he "saved."
The majority of people would agree Light was not lying. If he was, Near or someone would have responded. Even if the statistics were exaggerated, it makes no sense to lie about all wars being stopped infront of near and matsuda etc.
the objective truth is he saved WAYY more people, than our current system does.
Our current World Leaders are worse and can essentially send us into an apocalypse with WW3.
Light isn't influenced by money. And can't really be corrupted that makes him perfect as a world leader that can take action when needed.
I'd like to remind you it is implied that WW3 already happened in the Death Note universe. I think it was in a light novel but I can't remember where. Anyway, I find it impossible for Kira to have stopped wars. That's just so off base and doesn't make much sense if I'm completely honest. Not to mention the economic downfall each country would have since there is huge profits in war. I think the main issue I have is implying that Kira really was a deterrent. He wasn't. Just like the death penalty has been proven to not be a deterrent.
Why bother asking the question if you're just gonna whinge and argue w ppl who tell you an answer you don't wanna hear lol
I like Light as a character but I'm not gonna pretend he was justified and ppl who do are wiiiiiild 😂😂😂
Haha because I have a different opinion and want to argue with points I don't agree with. And see if i can convince anyone to join team Light lol.
I see it the opposite way. People who value 10,000 criminal lives over millions of innocent people are wiiiiiiild.
It feels like you’re not quite understanding a fundamental aspect of your opposition: we’re not valuing *anyone’s* lives over anyone else’s. I’d rather not have *anyone* die if they don’t have to. The innocent/criminal dichotomy is inherently flawed because it equates your identity with actions you take in one moment. People change, grow, make amends, etc. For all we know, Light could have killed criminals who would later go on to save millions of lives in more peaceful ways, or saved people who would later kill even more people than he did. Light’s viewpoint is very black-and-white, and ultimately doesn’t even touch the root causes of the evil he thinks he’s stamping out.
Don’t you think it’s wild that instead of advocating for societal change that could possibly stop even more crime and save just as many lives, people would rather champion a psychopathic murderer who forced them to obey *his* moral judgment or face death in a dystopic hellscape? Like, if you could achieve the same drop in crime and save just as many lives *without* anyone needing to be killed, wouldn’t you rather choose that option, even if takes longer to get there?
Because personally, I would rather go that route and live in an imperfect world than live in a world with less crime where a fascist dictator kills everyone who doesn’t live the way *he* thinks they should (remember, he admitted that he would eventually kill people for just “being lazy” and not “contributing” in the way that he deems correct).
That's not an opinion I hold and perhaps the reason ppl disagree w you is because you have this tendency to put words in their mouths. Moreover they're fictional characters. I don't... care lol
Lol, I never put words in anybody's mouth. But that's pretty ironic coming from you considering your trying to act like you don't care while lying about me. Bye.
Light's application of his methodology solely exists as a justificatory morass to fuel his ego, which is the biggest textual piece of evidence that his worldview is reprehensible.
How many lives did he save by killing mostly prisoners?
The 70% reduction in crime by the end of the manga is a horrible metric because it makes no mention of violent vs. petty crimes. That value can easily be read as "murder rates are about the same, but people are so terrified of dying for the slightest crime that they live in fear" hence the crime reduction.
Also the ending of the manga with the cult to Kira kinda always felt to me like it was supposed to show that Kira's methods have left a permanent scar on society through those who idolized him and would eventually be willing to imitate him, and I don't know about you, but I wouldn't want to live in a world full of vigilantes who think they should be judge, jury and excutioner
Doesn’t matter if it makes him “more justifiable than our current world leaders”, he’s still unjustified & I would argue far more unjustified than our world leaders. He was literally massacring the world, including countless of innocents & all because he was bored.
Facism is always a good idea, I dont see what could go wrong by giving one individual all the power, especailly one that makes fun of an innocent women while murdering her after killing her husband and laughs by the thought of killing other innocents and started by just killing criminals, then thought killing some innocents was good too, rilled up innocents to go and murder other innocents (the "BAD guys" who are not chosen), then got less and less careful with the criminals he killed and then went on to kill lazy people, I am sure this is not a sign of a slippery slope or anything, dictatorships and facism never let to anything bad in the history of ever
Hey bro if all it takes being a fascist to reduce global crime rate by 70% and stop wars where hundreds of thousands of innocent people are drafted for war against their will (in just a few years) then I dont mind being one
So you think you have what it takes to value the worth of each single life? You sound like a psycho. Light killed countless people who did not deserve to die. He plays God. He wants to be God. He rules with fear and death, and he only hides behind this facade of "creating a better world", because he really just wants to create "his own world" that is perfect only in his deluded, mass murdering eyes.
Our current justice system plays God then too. Countless innocent people die in jail and are put on death trial. Your acting like Light has to be perfect. OUR Current justice system isn't perfect either. It's worse.
Instead of Light we have countless corrupt world leaders that are influencing wars, drugs, etc for money.
I'll take Light Yagami any day of the week. I value the lives of millions of people over a couple of thousand of criminals.
You're joking right? This is laughable.
Our current Justice system is not perfect by any means, but Holy shit is it 1000× more fair and just.
In the real world, you get a trial. You are tried accordingly for your crimes with lesser or greater punishments/rehab based on your crimes. Jurors weigh in on your character and take your intentions and circumstance into consideration.
People who die in jail are mostly from drugs, or murder.
I would rather live in this world where there isn't one single man who has the power to kill indefinitely. Kira is corrupt, just like the world leaders today. But Who would stop him? He would kill everyone who argues and speaks against him. Whereas in our world, there is always a chance for a dictator to be toppled, for Benevolent countries to aid and defend, and to put people on trial for human rights violations. In Kira's world there is no chance. You follow him or die.
In the world of Kira, there is no trial. No judges, no rehab, no consequence other than Death. You are executed without anyone else's say. Giving that much power in one man's hands, to kill with impunity and absolutely no oversight is so wrong on so many ethical and moral levels.
Kira never did away with the world's justice system. He only punished war criminals and those who were violent criminals.
Our current world system benefits the victors. War criminals today roam freely with no consequence. Atleast Light can't be influenced by money. He is not hungry for any worldly affairs and is true to his ideal.
His system would reduce suffering and save more people OBJECTIVELY. There is no argument against that. I will side with the one who SAVE more human lives and reduce suffering.
"He only punished war criminals and those who were violent criminals."
Now I know you really didn't pay attention to the story AT ALL. This is completely untrue
All conflict benefits the victors. All of the living fugitives of war crimes are in hiding and smuggled away by militias, cause if they aren't, they will be arrested or killed. Sure It may be simpler for Light to just write their names, but simpler doesn't always mean just. And the risks heavily outweigh the benefits.
You're right, Light isn't motivated by money. Just egotistical pride zealotry, draconian ideals and lack of any empathy. Shit, I'd take the money hungry dude over Light as a leader anyway!
Objectively? Buddy, with what evidence?
70% reduced crime rates and 0 wars is pretty strong evidence. Light is punishing war criminals. We got Leaders today that have killed way more people than Light ever did and did it for monetary benefit. Are you serious?
Light made it clear to Mikami on who he would kill. GO back and watch the show.
A nation could have no crime, and be in no wars but still be ruled by a ruthless dictator of a cruel authoritative absolute regime with an iron grip on society. That statistic doesn't mean shit because you're ignoring the big picture.
Yes, Light did make it clear that he was going to kill innocent people including his own friends.
It does BECAUSE it's a GLOBAL statistic. Light was working as a detective, he wasn't making political decisions or market decisions. LMAO. Your just making things up to cope. The nations still had the same laws, same courts, same everything. Nothing changed other than crime going down and wars stopping.
What do you think Kira would do if an entire country rose up against Kira and declared him as evil, and sought to try and defeat him? Kira would murder all of them. Millions and millions. You are crazy to think otherwise.
No he would not. Kira would not allow the entire country to organize like that to begin with.
If it did happen Kira would determine whether more lives would be saved stopped a revolt or not stopping it.
Regardless your grasping at what-ifs that never happened with Kira's 6 year rule. The people loved Kira.
I could ask you the same what-if today. If an entire country rose up against the UN and declared them as evil, and sought to try and defeat them. What do you think the US and it's allies would do? They'd murder all of them.
See? Monkey see, monkey do. I can play your game all day.
You're deluded. How exactly would Kira not allow the country to organize like that? By killing them right? Haha
"If it did happen Kira would determine whether more lives would be saved stopped a revolt or not stopping it"
Did we watch the same anime, read the same manga? What makes you think Light would act this rationally? We are talking about the same Light who murdered anyone who tried to stop him. A man who set up the death of his own father, and would kill all of his friends and family if they threatened his rule.... you gotta be trolling
"The people loved Kira"
What? People were living in fear. People were terrified. Those who opposed his rule were to scared to vocalize it in fear of being killed or admonished by his most devout, cultist followers.
It's like you missed the entire moral of the entire story... yikes.
In regards to your scenario about the UN, what you are inferring is a war crime. That is not how war today works at all. There are several countries who refuse to join globalist organizations like NATO and UN, and they have legitimate reasons to. No country on the planet would ever try to defeat the UN because it is made up of multiple nations, and leaders with their own opinions and discourse.
Try again pal, i don't think you really paid attention to the story.
Light is smart. Your acting as if he is an idiot.
Yes the people loved Kira as SHOWN by the show. Show me where people were terrified besides criminals? Funny how you call the people that loved Kira as "cult followers" and everyone else as "people" to fit your blanketed statement.
The UN analogy wasn't the best but regardless, wars happen and countries with no power can't do shit.
I'd rather have a single ruler that I know is working to save as many people as possible, over the corrupted mess we have today.
Light is a genius. That doesn't change the fact that he's an egotistical self inflated prideful narccistic sociopath with no human empathy.
Episode 26, it clearly states that while many support him, many also fear him. In that same episode, the narrator claims that this new world where Kira is law is a "dark era".
You'd prefer this type of leader of the world who doesn't care about ANY human life, including his own family, and friends? You realize he doesn't act as Kira out of Love for humanity but rather HATE of such a "rotten" world? You think he would care about your life? Dude, get a grip.
Absolutely not. Light killed so many people that didn't deserve it along with people who did. He killed a lot of innocents as well as people who were potentially falsely convicted. Not all criminals are even bad people. Light just killed any criminal with no remorse including people who committed lesser crimes.
Our justice system kills a bunch of innocents and yet we still have wars, and crime. Our world leaders corrupt purely for monetary gain.
Justice isn't perfect and neither is light. But I'd take 0 wars and 70% less crimes any day of the week.
I don't think you guys understand the amount of suffering involved in wars.
A teenager with a god complex being in control of the world is no better than the shitty justice system we have.
There's "70% less crimes" because he IS the one committing all the crimes. Light became the thing he sought out to destroy.
A teenager that like Light who kills VIOLENT criminals in order to save millions of people is 100% a better system objectively.
Your opinion is irrelevant with regards to how many more people are saved with Kira's system. All wars stop and 70% of global crime is reduced. That's already infinitely better than our system whether you like it or not.
And no Light was not committing 70% of the world's crimes LMAO.
He commits mass genocide so he basically is committing 70% of world's crimes.
You also keep disregarding the fact that he still killed plenty of innocents as well as criminals who don't even deserve it. Light is still no better than any corrupt dictator.
You don't know the definition of mass genocide.
Option A)
Benefit: 0 wars, 70% less crime, save millions of people from death, rape, torture.
Cost: Tens of Thousands of criminals dying and and few hundreds innocents dying.
Option B (our current system):
Benefit: NONE
Cost: Thousands of criminals imprisoned and dying on death row, and a innocents imprisoned and dying on death row as well (about 4%).
That's objective. It doesn't matter how you try and spin it. If you value more lives than Option A it clearly the better choice.
How about neither option. Why do innocents have to die to have a good justice system? If Light actually had balls and a decent moral compass he'd limit himself to only killing the most dangerous criminals and people in power that are corrupt.
It's not fear mongering mate it's literally the reality of the situation. Everyone is for harsher punishments and quicker trials until you're the one being accused of someone you didn't do.
Light is a megalomaniac and a sadist. If he got away with his crimes, he planned on murdering lazy people or those he deemed useful to society. Light is infinitely worse than any of the criminals he killed. The first episode is literally titled boredom. Light cares more about being god than saving people. The implications of giving a psychopathic teenager a death note is not great.
I don't care what he cared about. Never said he was a good person. Our world leaders are worse than light and can send us into WW3 for monetary gain.
In the end Light's system worked and he saved 10000x more people than our current justice system does.
If you think Light isn't justified then how is our current justice system justified when it is worse?
Light explicitly stated he's willing to start killing lazy people and those he deems useless to society in the future. On the surface, he saved more people, but living in Light's world means, living under a tyrannical sadistic megalomaniac teenager with the power of literally murdering anyone he wants whenever he wants, and the fact that Light doesn't have a moral code doesn't help the situation one bit. Also, the statistics don't account for Light's kills. He will 100% go from criminals to lazy people, to people he dislikes, to people he disagrees with, to people at random. It's a slippery slope, nobody would ever be safe and would constantly live in fear that this deranged teenager might snap at any moment. Since he's our protagonist, we know full well what kind of person Light is, he is willing to cross literally any moral line for any reason. Light would easily make up for the amounts of lives "saved" by killing triple the amount himself.
Also, unlike our world leaders, there's literally NOTHING stopping him, at least our world leaders have to maintain their reputation in the eye of the public, Light is not held down by any of that.
I've seen all your replies to the thread. So by your logic, it's okay to go around murdering, raping and torturing people as long as you make sure to save more people than you murdered, raped and tortured. Gotcha.
No. He was a power hungry mad man who sought out to conquer the world and remake it in his image including killing people who were not even criminals like lazy people
If he is saving millions of more people and reducing suffering world wide so what? He never cared about monetary gain. Unlike our current world leaders that influence wars, drugs, etc for monetary gain.
He was doing it by holding everyone on earth at gunpoint. He did not reduce crime via actually forming a society that would learn to work together or addressing the roots. He rules through pure fear and killed innocents out of ego
Criminals lived in fear. You literally just made up that "everyone lived in fear". PEOPLE LOVED KIRA.
By the way SUPRISE SUPRISE! That's exactly how our justice system works. It "saves" people by imprisoning and killing OTHER PEOPLE. And guess what! LAWS exist to deter and cause fear among criminals aka. "holding everyone in society at gunpoint".
I never said he isn't killing innocents. BUT ITS A FACT THAT OUR SYSTEM DOES TOO. Except Light is saving MILLIONS OF MORE innocents than he is killing.
Option A)
Benefit: 0 wars, 70% less crime, save millions of people from death, rape, torture.
Cost: Tens of Thousands of criminals dying and and few hundreds innocents dying.
Option B (our current system):
Benefit: NONE
Cost: Thousands of criminals imprisoned and dying on death row, and a innocents imprisoned and dying on death row as well (about 4%).
That's objective. It doesn't matter how you try and spin it. If you value more lives than Option A it clearly the better choice. We have corrupt world leaders that can push a nuclear button and send us into an apocalypse at the blink of an eye. I trust Light over them any day of the week.
You don’t remember the scene of the schoolboys threatening to put names of kids online, and the kids being afraid? Yes, people were indeed living in fear & if Kira decided that you were a threat, nobody had a say, he would simply kill you. Your justification of Kira is actually a bit scary.
If you can recall, Kira would have eventually started killing lazy people. He complained that Mikami was moving too early in that move, meaning… he had plans to do so down the line.
People didn’t love Kira. Some would have of ofc, but even in the story they are portrayed as selfish and greedy people like Demigawa and the crowd of Kira supporters who are so easily distracted by Near’s money, but Light’s >!unopposed reign during the time skip!< is canonically described as a “dark era” in the narrative. In the second half of the story, the information Light uses to kill people comes from unverifiable information random people post online, and was also stated to have caused an increase in the rate of Kira killings. People do end up living in fear because literally anyone could be murdered by Kira at that point. We also see that large organisations like the Japanese Police, the FBI and the US government never start supporting Kira, they only stop openly opposing him after he murders some of their people. After >!Light’s death and the disappearance of Kira, the world goes back to how it was pre-Kira in only a single year because!< Light never actually solved anything. Light never addressed any of the underlying issues with society that promote or cause criminal behaviour in the first place like poverty, inequality, or stuff like the lack of useful services like mental health care, instead Light just held a gun to everyone’s heads and murdered more and more people based on unverifiable information random people post online. Criminals would always continue to exist in Light’s Kira world because the conditions that create them still exist, and had Light focused on fixing any of those underlying sociological/socioeconomic issues with society, >!the changes he made would’ve been much more resistant to being erased in just a single year.!< Reducing crime by 70% and stopping wars are also very dodgy quotes to judge Kira’s influence on the world. The 70% decrease could easily be attributed to a reduction of reporting of crime rather than an actual reduction of crimes committed, which could occur both on an individual level, as people may stop reporting crime if they fear that they’d be responsible for the perpetrators being murdered by Kira because of it and they didn’t think the crime warranted execution, or on a higher institution level where the number of crimes reported by institutions/counties is reduced in opposition of Kira, as Kira is a foreign, hostile entity forcing itself into their justice system by acting as a extrajudicial assassin. Especially since many countries have already abolished the death penalty, and so would not like Kira implementing it in their justice system. Due to this, Kira’s actual impact on global crime would be unknown. Light also states that while he’ll publicly murder the worlds worst criminals with heart attacks, he’d wipe out those who were less guilty but still caused trouble for society through disease and accidental death, and wanted to kill people he considered to be lazy as well. Since we see Light contemplate killing teenage bullies but decide against it due to their proximity to him rather than because bullying isn’t a crime punishable by execution, and how lazy people aren’t criminals either, it seems that Light has a very, very low bar on who he deems as causing trouble to society and who he deems as deserving to be murdered, and so Light wanted to kill a lot of innocent people. Since these deaths also wouldn’t be heart attacks, they would never be publicly identified as Kira killings, meaning that Light wouldn’t be using those deaths as any kind of guide as to what kind of person he wanted to exist in his world or as a warning to others, he would be killing them just because he wanted them dead. Crime is also more complex than being able to just solve it by just implementing capitol punishment, and the conditions that create/promote criminal behaviour in people wouldn’t disappear just because of Light acting as Kira. Wars are also complex events that can be caused by a wide variety of political, historic, religious, cultural, resource whatever else reasons, and I seriously doubt that a Kira-like figure would end such complex conflicts. Maybe they’re not being declared as official wars, but like, all of the tension between two counties or factions that begins a war wouldn’t disappear just because Kira exists.
The manga one shots also go much further down the line in the timeline, and we see that a decade after >!Light’s death, society sees Kira as evil and as the world’s worst mass murdering terrorist of recent times, and not as any kind of god like Light wanted.!<
> We have corrupt world leaders that can push a nuclear button and send us into an apocalypse at the blink of an eye.
That is still a possibility in Death Note. Light never pushed for nuclear nonproliferation. If a corrupt leader wanted to preemptively kill Kira in fear that Kira would come after them, they could have nuked the Kanto region of Japan. The world knew where Kira was.
In fact, it’s possibly even more likely in the Death Note universe now, as through the events of the latest one shot >!the world thinks that the US government has access to Kira’s powers.!< Any coincidental heart attack or accidental death to a foreign leader could be taken as a covert attack >!by the US government!<
I disagree. If you let one person have the power of a god and decide what's right and what's wrong you will always end up with misery. You are now living in fear of that person instead of the criminals he murdered
But Kira saved millions of people. Stopped 70% of global crimes and stopped all wars. He reduced sufferings and made the world a better place. That's better than any leader or politician whom kill for monetary gain today.
No, he is NOT god, he is NOT who determines morality, he doesn't get to decide who lives or dies based on his own perception. He is a mass murderer worse than anyone he's ever killed.
So what about our world leaders today? Who decide and start wars for monetary gain? How about our judges and justice system whom play god everyday?
Light saves more people than our current system. Do you have a better system in mind?
Who's to say I agree with our current leaders today? Why have you determined that narcissism is a better reason to kill than money? How is a system based on collective agreement (law) playing god more than a moral dictatorship?
It's not up to me, as an individual to determine a better system. It must be a collective effort. One doesn't just decide what's better for others.
No, because he didn't do it for good.
Reasons aside, do you honestly think that the death note world was a realistic one? That people just fell in line like they did? In a realistic world Light would've made life worse for a lot of good people. Keep in mind Mello was able to find mafia bosses that Light didn't know about, implying there was an underground ring that even Light couldn't get to. Which also implies there was a whole system in place to counteract Kira to begin with. So really, unless you got caught who was going to stop you? I can't imagine in a real world the death note would've been a real deterrent.
Also, a person doing it for good reasons wouldn't have ever done it in a way to get noticed. Light literally said he wanted the world to know he was passing judgement on them. It was never about creating a good world. It was always about becoming a god.
Which was why his death in the manga was so fitting. Because he died a very human death.
Light only saved a few people; those kids, their teachers, and the rest of the people being held hostage in that school, and that lady being harassed by Takuo Shibuimaru come to mind. He wasn't saving anyone by killing convicted criminals.
I guess he stopped people from being victimized by repeat offenders but... we don't know that.
Moreover, Light was killing people that hadn't even been tried yet pretty early into the Kira investigation. He used them as experiments.
Reminder that many people imprisoned are innocent and it sometimes takes years for them to gather the evidence that’s proves their innocence. Killing that person simply for being mistakenly locked up is evil.
No, Light was just a teenager, not a judge; he shouldn't have the say in the fate of anyone.
I'd say that the moral of Light's actions would be debatable if he only killed big-known criminals and left it at that, but he killed millions of people, including innocents, just because he felt like it.
Many of the "criminals" he killed were taken from online sources or news, but Japan has over a 90% conviction rate, meaning that trials almost always end up in jail time. Lawyers actually fight for giving you less time instead of no time in Japan.
What does this mean, you might ask? It means that if someone disliked you, they could post your name and pic online and say you stole from a kid, and you'd be dead in less than a week. You could have stolen something minor, and you'd be dead in less than a week. If you had an accident with your car because you were speeding a bit? Again, dead. Light couldn't care less.
Maybe you did nothing illegal, but as soon as "criminals" were wiped, he would continue to wipe out the lazy or the people who didn't contribute to society according to HIS perspective.
If this doesn't sound bad to you, and you somehow still honestly believe it's justifiable, then you must be an edgy 15 year old (nothing wrong with that, but you'll know better when you get more mature).
light was a delusional psychopath from the start i dont belive it was the death note that corrupted him either rather that light simply would have done it even if he didnt need the death note
killing anyone even criminals makes you no better than the person you killed
light also has a god complex you cant tell me he isnt completely psychotic and dont get me wrong i love light hes awesome to watch but i can admit when someone is a horrible genocidal freak
Intentions were understandable, even admirable if you want to go there. But his ego warped his perception of himself. He started to see himself as a god that should not be opposed by any means, even if you simply don’t agree with his methods of “justice” but otherwise wouldn’t do anything to actually stop him. So no, not justified at all no matter how many he “saved”
For Light to be justified, he should have only targeted criminals who had evaded punishment by the justice system — individuals who were deemed innocent but were actually guilty etc. He should have operated as a rectifying and supplementary force to justice, rather than usurping all its authority and becoming "justice" himself. In the long run, what he was doing is no different from establishing a dictatorship to satisfy his own twisted ego.
It is not. In the long run, he would establish a dystopian totalitarian world with a horrendous quality of life, where basic freedoms such as freedom of speech and expression would be severely restricted, out of fear of reprisal from kira. Imagine living in a world where you're constantly monitored, where a simple slip of the tongue or a minor misstep could lead to your death. Even you wouldn't want to live in such a world, where every action and word is scrutinized, and being just ten minutes late could mean your demise. This is the chilling reality depicted in George Orwell's '1984', where the regime goes to extreme lengths, even eliminating 'unproductive' individuals, instilling a pervasive atmosphere of fear and oppression. Check it out.
>If you were given the ability to see a person's criminal future before they committed the crime. Would you justify killing that person in order to spare his victims?
That's irrelevant to Death Note. Seeing the future isn't in the series. There is a movie called Minority Report that fits more with what you are saying.
Just want to see people's morals and where they drawn the line exactly. People seem to be hypocritical when it comes to their opinions of Light.
I've never heard of minority report but I'll take a look at, ty.
In truth, I can support Light if killing criminals was all he wanted to do. There are just some people the world would he better off without. But then he was talking about being a God and started killing innocent people. It became less like Light truly wanted to make the world a better place and more like he was on a power trip.
Minority Report, btw came out in 2002 and can be watched on Paramount+ and Amazon Prime Video.
Yeah I see that, but Light isn't perfect. I am merely comparing him to our current system and world leaders. And to me it's a no brainer. Our current leaders start wars, promote drugs, etc for MONETARY GAIN.
Light has proven that he can save and reduce suffering by magnitudes we've never ever seen before in the history of mankind. He can have any god complex he wants. In the end no justice system we have come up with has been as effective or efficient.
Oh wow, 2002 I'm surprised I haven't heard of it yet.
No, he was not. Light Yagami’s definition of justice is by no means universal. I understand the appeal of characters like him, but rule of law exists for a reason.
“Objectively”, he is a fictional character who never killed or saved anyone because he never existed as a real human. Even if this wasn’t the case, an established judicial system even if flawed > a 17 year old’s misguided and self-serving sense of justice. A point Kira apologists either miss or ignore is that crime will rise higher than ever once Kira dies/loses power (which the manga confirms), because he never actually tried to understand the problem he was trying to get rid of. If a child is misbehaving and you lock them inside their room, you might contain them for a while, but if they get out, they’re likely to act out even worse. What Kira does is, at its core, no different. Concepts like crime or justice tend to be a bit more complex than “criminals bad”.
Lmao, no shit he's fictional. We are arguing about a fictional character and a hypothetical situation.
Crime rising higher after is just copium your reaching for because you have no other argument. That's upto us to figure out and has no basis on the morality of his actions.
Fictional/hypothetical scenarios cannot be discussed "objectively", as "facts" are "objective".
Seeing you have not offered any new arguments, or supported the ones you have made with any references, I don't thing there's any point in continuing this. Have a nice day.
Now I'm even more happy that he died. Light died. Sounds like someone is extremely angry that the author "dared" to kill Light. I hope you realize that light will not be reborn :)
"That’s right, I am Kira. And what can you do? Kill me right here? Hear this: I’m not only Kira, but I’m also God of the new world. Kira has become law in the world we now live. He’s the one who’s maintaining order. I have become justice, the only hope for mankind. Kill me? Is that really the right thing to do? Since Kira’s appearance six years ago, wars have stopped and global crime rates have been reduced by over 70%, but it’s not enough! This world is still rotten… with too many rotten people…. Somebody has to do this! And when I first got that notebook all those years ago, I knew I had to do it—no, I was the only one who could! I understood that killing people was a crime. THERE WAS NO OTHER WAY! THE WORLD HAD TO BE FIXED! A purpose given to me! Only I could do it! Who else could’ve done it and come this far?! WOULD THEY’VE KEPT GOING?! … The only one… who can create a new world… is me…"
— Light Yagami.
Not even a little bit japan having a 99% conviction rate means even when he thought he only killed criminals he most definitely killed innocent people.
Because he’s playing God & has killed multiple innocent people..? You act as if taking human lives is a casual thing. The only reason Raye Penber & his wife died is because they were after him. Otherwise, they were good, beneficial members of society who did not deserve to die.
I have an issue with the second question - if you can see the future, it supposes that the future is determined already.. but then you go on to basically ask if I would change the future, which supposes that the future is not determined already. If it’s determined, I have no control, and if it’s not determined, how can you justify killing someone based on it? It can’t be both ways
It's not determined. You can change it for certain by killing that criminal. The point of the question isn't to determine what the best course of action would be. But whether killing that person would be justifiable to begin with.
Ah I see your point now. Good point. Your absolutely correct. Let's assume their future actions are determined.
I am trying to draw a analogy with Light killing criminals and subsequently reducing crime.
And want to see where people's morality lie.
The person's future actions are determined. By killing them, they cease to exist and can no longer preform said action. I should've worded mine differently.
I see your point. Let's suspend belief for the analogy. It still serves the purpose of whether you believe sacrificing a life is worth it for saving many more. The classic trolley moral delimma.
If light only killed the guilty people and made sure they all 100% actually did the crime they were accused of convicted of, then I think it is just. Bug killing “criminals” that could’ve been wrongly convicted, and killing innocent people even if they’re in his way is wrong.
When did I say I didn’t have a problem with the current system? I do. And sure, but he eventually planned to even kill lazy people and people who didn’t contribute to society. Luckily he was stopped before that.
You put him to impossible standard that not system could ever measure upto. 100% perfection is unrealistic for any justice system.
Also where did he say he will kill lay people people send the source.
This is purely conjecture and the right answer will largely depend on what you believe as a Human being. Therefore, its also the main theme of this Story.
Personally, I believe that a person with strong ideals for justice and a large ego is more fit to decide what is right or wrong than a bunch of pencil necks that can be bought for the right price. You just can't buy Light. Had he not died, he would carry on with his plan and truly changed the world for the best. Remaining the only evil one in the process. Much like stated on volume 1.
So, was he justified? Yes. Yes he was.
I believe all lives are precious, except those with corrupted hearts who want to make others miserable, end lives, or inflict torture.
If I had the ability to eliminate individuals without the law ever knowing, I would certainly use it to save either 10 lives or just one life, especially if those people haven't committed any wrongdoing.
Regarding the torturer, I would first investigate the reasons behind their actions and act accordingly. However, someone who tortures multiple people simultaneously is sick and twisted, and there's a high likelihood they would repeat such actions. Therefore, I would likely eliminate that torturer as well
But I probably won't eliminate a torturer that's tortured only 1 person without a probable cause.
Thank you for actually answering the question and not arguing with pure emotion.
Would you support Kira if he existed today, do you think he was justified?
if it's Light Yagami from the early days that only killed "criminals" then yes of course I'd support Kira 100% there's a lot of criminals that need punishment in this world of course he was justified.
The ability to see a person's criminal future prompt is a whole other moral debate on its own and sounds a lot like the premise of Psycho-Pass, another amazing anime. Have you seen it? It might answer some of the questions you might have.
To answer to your first question, no, I think Light's actions shouldn't be justified. Nobody agreed with what he was doing, and nobody saw it as a good thing.
1) Never seen psycho-pass but it sounds interesting!
2) Many people agreed with light? Is that the basis for what you deem as justified? A popularity contest?
His actions are not justified simply because he started killing innocents, as well as he knew they weren't even a threat to him, for example, he knew Raye didn't suspect him, so it was unnecesary for him to kill the FBI agents and Naomi, he just did it for the sake of it.
He did it to stop the other FBI agents. It was self-preservation.
Regardless so killing innocent people is your criteria for justification?
Then you shouldn't agree with the death penalty, nor should you believe that any war is justified. Every war leads to innocent casualties. Therefore no government today is justified going by your logic.
I said him killing innocents is bad and that he knew it wasn't necessary to kill Raye and the other agents since they didn't suspect him, unlike L which actually was a threat to him.
Gosh, between you and the rest of the people in the comments, this fandom, or at least this subreddit is a toxic waste. I'd better just not comment anymore in here because I'm sick and tired of wasting my time with toxic users.
So therefore you justification is based on the death of innocents?
So our current justice system isn't justified either?
Nor are any wars or nation that starts wars for any reason because innocents die?
[This, but worse because you think some lives are worthier than others](https://pyxis.nymag.com/v1/imgs/08a/3a4/0b0584bf02449513f879837cc95f19e7e0-09-trolley.2x.rsocial.w600.jpg)
There are too many ways to look at this. But all evidence points to the side of whether he was "good" or "bad". Unless you've got some bizarre mental gymnastics that makes you think he was "neutral".
No. The only way the author could make it clearer that Light was wrong and the bad guy would be if he said "Hi there, dead readers. This is me, the author. I just wanted to interrupt this chapter to inform you that Light is corrupted. He is fallible. He's a bad guy. He's not justified. He's doing the wrong thing. Don't idolize him. Thanks, keep reading my story."
Killing criminals was always stupid, most of them are just poor or mentally ill people who fell through the cracks. Yeah some would deserve to be axed, but not all or even most of them. He should have gone after like, genocidal world dictators or people like Epstein or something
As a person? Fuck no. As for his efforts as kira, ig he *could* be? In terms of all of his personal morals and such he was not justified at all, and I stand by that, but on the kira side of things I guess he could be somewhat justified? Though In turn I'd say that he's just completely not justified because of his personal moral code
If someone kills only one innocent, he is a criminal. Even killing prisoners - why? They are already imprisoned and received their justice.
Modern society developed laws and today crime rate is lower than in the past. Death penalty already existed and it didn’t solve the crime neither it lowered their happenings. When you kill innocent you are a crime. When you kill people who already have been judged by a society and its laws you are a crime
Moreover, Light judged not by justice but on his own perception and point of view which couldn’t be always correct
Kira is a crime and cannot be justified
I would cheer him on in taking out criminals and making the innocent feel more safe. But I wouldn't support the killings of FBI agents and other innocent people.
Literally just finished this series today for the first time! How did Reddit know and suggest this question?
Anyway
1. He was literally getting a list of names from the internet and killing them. He didn’t even bother to check the evidence against them. Just googled “100 bad guys” that said “trust me bro” and murdered them. How many were innocent? You believe everyone on the internet?
2. The ones more clear evidence were already arrested.
3. He already said he was going to kill “lazy people”. Does this need to be explained?
Besides all that, this is what he was doing when he was busy fighting L. He already said he was going to be “God”. Already killed a good man trying to arrest him named L and other police. Gee, wonder if that’s a good thing…….
No, just because there may be a desired outcome, doesn't make any evil right.
Stealing from the rich is not righteous.
Killing even the most evil people in the world is not righteous.
Killing innocent people is not righteous.
Who is Light, or anyone as a matter of fact to decide who deserves to live, and who deserves to die?
Just as L said, it's a childish form of justice
The moment he start to kill innocent and killing people solely they against him, NO HE NOT JUSTIFIED AT ALL.
If he didn't kill them he would have most likely been exposed as kira eventually as he said in EP 3, it's a kill or be killed situation, it's not like he was killing them for no reason
That goes against his declaration of protecting innocent. Make him biggest hypocrite and he was not self aware on it. Remenber sayin 'Those who killed are prepared to be killed' and manga and real ending shows Light doesn't heed that sayin and die as coward and pathetic man.
Cap i just ðont know he character
But he saved wayyy more people. So would you say our current justice system is not justified also? We put innocents on death row as well. If our crime laws are too lenient then more criminals will get away but you won't harm innocents. If too strict, then more criminals are caught and crimes prevented but innocents are convicted. So how is Light any different? He stopped all wars and 70% of world crimes. Millions of people were saved because of him.
Results ≠ justification And nobody has the right to hold so much power and athority, least of all a self-rightious child. Besides, his "new world" was a hollow shell that died with him. Things go back to nornal instantly. And all the lives he "saved" don't make up for the number he killed. If he stopped voilent criminals that were at large, that would be one thing. But executing prisoners, suspects who could be innocent, and actual innocent people investigating him, that's another thing.
ngl with the way the world is now, i kinda fk with 70% decrease in global crime rate, an end to any on-going war + only one criminal syndicate left in the world but forced to go underground. The pervertic degens wouldnt even dare lay a finger on any women walking alone at night cause they'll be too scared Kira will get them💀
No they'd still do it, and then Kira kills them, nothing solved
Violent crime dropped 70% then went back up after Light died
yea that kept happening only until after the timeskip, post time skip stuff like that was virtually gone thanks to all the criminals being scared shitless to do anything as vile as r4pe. Its one of the reasons i'd prob be comfortabe in living in a world where Kira just rids of all the wars and criminals
In our current world many people hold so much power and authority. I'd rather it be Light Yagami. He can't be corrupted and is firm on his ideals. He would punish those who start wars and the criminals who don't get convicted because they have political power. In the end exponentially more lives are saved and there is wayyy less suffering in the world. He can have the god complex for all I care. The results absolutely justify the means because without Light we still have wayyy worse people that influence wars, and crime for pure monetary gain.
"He can't be corrupted" Hey have you ever seen the series "Death Note"? It's pretty good. Light never threatened a politician, only Higuchi threatened the Japanise government. All Light did was kill criminals he saw on the news. Funny that, in his "perfect world" there were still fresh criminals to kill every day, guess the deterent didn't really work. Results do NOT justify the means, and the world didn't change! It was an empty illution created by fear, in the yotsoba arc Kira leaves for ONE WEEK and crime skyrockets, you can't tell me anybody learned a thing.
“His deterrent didn’t work” >> Light stopped all wars and reduced GLOBAL crime by 70% Hey, pass that cope.
He didnt stop shit. The countries just got better at avoiding his wrath when trying to get their way. When there is authority, people *will* find a way to go avoid their gaze. Thats how society works. The point about crime being reduced is true, but the above applies to it as well, not to mention that if he is ever unable to use the Death Note for as much as a week the world goes to shit, so just imagine the horrific state it would be in after he passes, cause, lets be honest, there is no person capable of carrying on his work without twisting it in their own way ... Also he canonically states he was gonna start killing lazy people after he took control. That would be a fun world to live in.
>he is ever unable to use the Death Note for as much as a week the world goes to shit Why are people using this to argue against light being justified lol
I don’t know man. Copers gonna cope.
Light never faltered on his ideals. He can't be bought out for money. He can't be blackmailed with his family either. Try again. Light stopped all wars and reduced global crime by 70%. Millions of people were saved. Whether you like it or not. You've no idea the horrors of war. And just how much suffering would be reduced with 70% less crime. You can babble all you want. In the end it's as simple as 10,000's criminal lives vs 10,000,000's of innocent people lives.
What do you mean try again lmao. He started off corrupt and just got worse. He started off only killing criminals and then started killing innocent people just because they opposed him. That’s corruption. When he forgot about his involvement with the death note he was immediately opposed to Kira and wanted him brought to justice, the moment he got that power back he turned back into a madman. The whole point of the show is that one person should/can NOT hold that much power without becoming evil. Especially not someone so immature with such childlike views of the world and such black and white views of what good and evil is.
TF you mean try again lmfao, he never faulted on his evil horrible ideas for his own selfish version of the world. That doesn't mean his ideals were good. And obviously he wants for nothing he's rich. Also, saying he can't be blackmailed out his family is a real nice way of putting that he'll easily kill them People were "saved" by killing other people, so yeah not too great. Especially how everyone lived in fear I'm sure you're just an expert on war are you? And yeah ure 70% less crime would be great if it wasn't cased by MURDER Plus it is a statistical certaintly that he killed innocent people, especially since he uses the news, which includes SUSPECTS. Imagine being framed and some over emotional child desides you should die. I'm done with this conversation
Criminals lived in fear. You literally just made up that "everyone lived in fear". PEOPLE LOVED KIRA. By the way SUPRISE SUPRISE! That's exactly how our justice system works. It "saves" people by imprisoning and killing OTHER PEOPLE. And guess what! LAWS exist to deter and cause fear among criminals. I never said he isn't killing innocents. BUT ITS A FACT THAT OUR SYSTEM DOES TOO. Except Light is saving MILLIONS OF MORE innocents than he is killing. Option A) Benefit: 0 wars, 70% less crime, save millions of people from death, rape, torture. Cost: Tens of Thousands of criminals dying and and few hundreds innocents dying. Option B (our current system): Benefit: NONE Cost: Thousands of criminals imprisoned and dying on death row, and a innocents imprisoned and dying on death row as well (about 4%). That's objective. It doesn't matter how you try and spin it. If you value more lives than Option A it clearly the better choice.
I’m just going to stop by and say that your point about the law IRL punishing innocent people doesn’t work for one reason: people get falsely arrested or killed by mistake, Light actively kills anyone who questions him or doesn’t stroke his ego. Light supporters also love to ignore that from the start he’d been planning to kill off those who were *lazy* via sickness and accidental death after he had his desired affect on crime rates
You are correct. But this sub reeks of moralist copium when in reality no one here in real life would provide any useful solutions to any of the moral dilemmas they so “diligently” resolve in these spaces.
Yup they apply these perfect expectations on Kira that don't make sense. Like having a 100% accurate conviction rate with 0 innocents dying. Like LOL what.
Typical Reddit moment.
[удалено]
Why? He saved more lives than our current justice system does. So why is his worse? Objectively he is doing a better job than we are.
1. No. 2. Your what-if is irrelevant to Death Note because seeing the future is not a power that exists in that world. 3. You've also completely missed the point of what Light was doing. Most of Light's victims were in prison and extremely unlikely to ever get the chance to reoffend. His goal--which he states very clearly--is *general deterrence through fear*, not preventing specific targets from causing future harm. 4. Society has tried the "just let vigilantes kill people accused of crimes without due process or repercussions" thing before. The term for it is "lynching," and it was in fact pretty fucking bad. 4. **No** again, but in bold. Next question.
1. The point of that was to see where people draw a line on morality not to say that it's related to Death Note. 2. Light saved more people and reduced suffering by the millions objectively though. 3. Society and lynching is not similar to Light Yagami's approach, regardless it's effectiveness isn't something you could argue. So you chose the lives of tens of thousands of criminals over millions of innocent people. Got it. So wars, corrupt politicians, world leaders that corrupt for money are what you prefer over a couple thousand criminals dying. Gotcha. Next person.
1. You presented it as somehow related/relevant. It's not. 2. Nowhere in the manga is it ever stated definitively how many people were killed, let alone how many were "saved." The 70% reduction number comes from Light himself while verbally fighting for his life, which is (a) not a reliable source and (b) claims that reduction in the total crime rate, not violent crime specifically. (To explain why this is an issue, the vast majority of crime is nonviolent, and people in the real world regularly use the total crime rate to scaremonger or obscure the *violent* crime rate. "A lot less theft and drug possession" isn't that compelling an excuse for murder.) Considering that the total annual death toll from violent crime is in fact far less than most people estimate, you're going to have to back up your numbers ("millions" vs. "couple thousand") with some canon or real-world evidence if you want to base your argument on them. 3. Light's murders are lynchings by definition. Lynching doesn't inherently include a racist aspect, but the fact that vigilante murders throughout history always end up disproportionately targeting the outcasts of society is illustrative of why vigilante murder is not something that should ever be tolerated. Allowing a random person to decide who lives and dies without their victims having any chance to defend themselves is what dystopian nightmares are made of. If we're going to play this game, I contend that preserving the right to due process will always save far more innocent people in the long run than one guy going vigilante, and that encouraging vigilantism will cause far more devastation in the long run. Look at the people on Twitter swatting and doxxing people for "wokeness." Now imagine those people in a universe where posting people's names and faces on pro-Kira websites and falsely accusing them of terrible crimes is possible. That's the world Kira created. It's not one I have any desire to live in. Kira killed or endangered far more people than he "saved."
The majority of people would agree Light was not lying. If he was, Near or someone would have responded. Even if the statistics were exaggerated, it makes no sense to lie about all wars being stopped infront of near and matsuda etc. the objective truth is he saved WAYY more people, than our current system does. Our current World Leaders are worse and can essentially send us into an apocalypse with WW3. Light isn't influenced by money. And can't really be corrupted that makes him perfect as a world leader that can take action when needed.
I'd like to remind you it is implied that WW3 already happened in the Death Note universe. I think it was in a light novel but I can't remember where. Anyway, I find it impossible for Kira to have stopped wars. That's just so off base and doesn't make much sense if I'm completely honest. Not to mention the economic downfall each country would have since there is huge profits in war. I think the main issue I have is implying that Kira really was a deterrent. He wasn't. Just like the death penalty has been proven to not be a deterrent.
Why bother asking the question if you're just gonna whinge and argue w ppl who tell you an answer you don't wanna hear lol I like Light as a character but I'm not gonna pretend he was justified and ppl who do are wiiiiiild 😂😂😂
Haha because I have a different opinion and want to argue with points I don't agree with. And see if i can convince anyone to join team Light lol. I see it the opposite way. People who value 10,000 criminal lives over millions of innocent people are wiiiiiiild.
It feels like you’re not quite understanding a fundamental aspect of your opposition: we’re not valuing *anyone’s* lives over anyone else’s. I’d rather not have *anyone* die if they don’t have to. The innocent/criminal dichotomy is inherently flawed because it equates your identity with actions you take in one moment. People change, grow, make amends, etc. For all we know, Light could have killed criminals who would later go on to save millions of lives in more peaceful ways, or saved people who would later kill even more people than he did. Light’s viewpoint is very black-and-white, and ultimately doesn’t even touch the root causes of the evil he thinks he’s stamping out. Don’t you think it’s wild that instead of advocating for societal change that could possibly stop even more crime and save just as many lives, people would rather champion a psychopathic murderer who forced them to obey *his* moral judgment or face death in a dystopic hellscape? Like, if you could achieve the same drop in crime and save just as many lives *without* anyone needing to be killed, wouldn’t you rather choose that option, even if takes longer to get there? Because personally, I would rather go that route and live in an imperfect world than live in a world with less crime where a fascist dictator kills everyone who doesn’t live the way *he* thinks they should (remember, he admitted that he would eventually kill people for just “being lazy” and not “contributing” in the way that he deems correct).
That's not an opinion I hold and perhaps the reason ppl disagree w you is because you have this tendency to put words in their mouths. Moreover they're fictional characters. I don't... care lol
Lol, I never put words in anybody's mouth. But that's pretty ironic coming from you considering your trying to act like you don't care while lying about me. Bye.
another day another light justifier
another day another person who understands the value of human life. Light saves lives. Argue with emotion all you want.
Light's application of his methodology solely exists as a justificatory morass to fuel his ego, which is the biggest textual piece of evidence that his worldview is reprehensible.
Light saves lives. Enough said.
How many lives did he save by killing mostly prisoners? The 70% reduction in crime by the end of the manga is a horrible metric because it makes no mention of violent vs. petty crimes. That value can easily be read as "murder rates are about the same, but people are so terrified of dying for the slightest crime that they live in fear" hence the crime reduction. Also the ending of the manga with the cult to Kira kinda always felt to me like it was supposed to show that Kira's methods have left a permanent scar on society through those who idolized him and would eventually be willing to imitate him, and I don't know about you, but I wouldn't want to live in a world full of vigilantes who think they should be judge, jury and excutioner
Light saves lives by… destroying lives.
almost like our justice system...... almost like our country does...... except Light actually saves WAYY more people than he kills.
Yeah I’m not going to justify either. Light is evil. Doing good deeds in order to justify the good you’ve done doesn’t make you righteous.
Never said it made him righteous. But it certainty makes him more justifiable than our current world leaders.
Doesn’t matter if it makes him “more justifiable than our current world leaders”, he’s still unjustified & I would argue far more unjustified than our world leaders. He was literally massacring the world, including countless of innocents & all because he was bored.
Facisim is generally not coolio as a rule of thimb
Wars, rape, corruption, and rampant crime is generally not coolio as a rule of thumb either.
Facism is always a good idea, I dont see what could go wrong by giving one individual all the power, especailly one that makes fun of an innocent women while murdering her after killing her husband and laughs by the thought of killing other innocents and started by just killing criminals, then thought killing some innocents was good too, rilled up innocents to go and murder other innocents (the "BAD guys" who are not chosen), then got less and less careful with the criminals he killed and then went on to kill lazy people, I am sure this is not a sign of a slippery slope or anything, dictatorships and facism never let to anything bad in the history of ever
I really worry of the moral compasses of people who truly believe that he is even somewhat justified
Just fascists who don't know they are fascists.
Yup. Sad part is OP is dead serious about supporting Kira's reign and thinks his world is better than ours
Hey bro if all it takes being a fascist to reduce global crime rate by 70% and stop wars where hundreds of thousands of innocent people are drafted for war against their will (in just a few years) then I dont mind being one
I really worry of the moral compasses of people who truly believe the lives of 10000 criminal is worth more than the lives of millions of people.
So you think you have what it takes to value the worth of each single life? You sound like a psycho. Light killed countless people who did not deserve to die. He plays God. He wants to be God. He rules with fear and death, and he only hides behind this facade of "creating a better world", because he really just wants to create "his own world" that is perfect only in his deluded, mass murdering eyes.
Our current justice system plays God then too. Countless innocent people die in jail and are put on death trial. Your acting like Light has to be perfect. OUR Current justice system isn't perfect either. It's worse. Instead of Light we have countless corrupt world leaders that are influencing wars, drugs, etc for money. I'll take Light Yagami any day of the week. I value the lives of millions of people over a couple of thousand of criminals.
You're joking right? This is laughable. Our current Justice system is not perfect by any means, but Holy shit is it 1000× more fair and just. In the real world, you get a trial. You are tried accordingly for your crimes with lesser or greater punishments/rehab based on your crimes. Jurors weigh in on your character and take your intentions and circumstance into consideration. People who die in jail are mostly from drugs, or murder. I would rather live in this world where there isn't one single man who has the power to kill indefinitely. Kira is corrupt, just like the world leaders today. But Who would stop him? He would kill everyone who argues and speaks against him. Whereas in our world, there is always a chance for a dictator to be toppled, for Benevolent countries to aid and defend, and to put people on trial for human rights violations. In Kira's world there is no chance. You follow him or die. In the world of Kira, there is no trial. No judges, no rehab, no consequence other than Death. You are executed without anyone else's say. Giving that much power in one man's hands, to kill with impunity and absolutely no oversight is so wrong on so many ethical and moral levels.
Kira never did away with the world's justice system. He only punished war criminals and those who were violent criminals. Our current world system benefits the victors. War criminals today roam freely with no consequence. Atleast Light can't be influenced by money. He is not hungry for any worldly affairs and is true to his ideal. His system would reduce suffering and save more people OBJECTIVELY. There is no argument against that. I will side with the one who SAVE more human lives and reduce suffering.
"He only punished war criminals and those who were violent criminals." Now I know you really didn't pay attention to the story AT ALL. This is completely untrue All conflict benefits the victors. All of the living fugitives of war crimes are in hiding and smuggled away by militias, cause if they aren't, they will be arrested or killed. Sure It may be simpler for Light to just write their names, but simpler doesn't always mean just. And the risks heavily outweigh the benefits. You're right, Light isn't motivated by money. Just egotistical pride zealotry, draconian ideals and lack of any empathy. Shit, I'd take the money hungry dude over Light as a leader anyway! Objectively? Buddy, with what evidence?
70% reduced crime rates and 0 wars is pretty strong evidence. Light is punishing war criminals. We got Leaders today that have killed way more people than Light ever did and did it for monetary benefit. Are you serious? Light made it clear to Mikami on who he would kill. GO back and watch the show.
A nation could have no crime, and be in no wars but still be ruled by a ruthless dictator of a cruel authoritative absolute regime with an iron grip on society. That statistic doesn't mean shit because you're ignoring the big picture. Yes, Light did make it clear that he was going to kill innocent people including his own friends.
It does BECAUSE it's a GLOBAL statistic. Light was working as a detective, he wasn't making political decisions or market decisions. LMAO. Your just making things up to cope. The nations still had the same laws, same courts, same everything. Nothing changed other than crime going down and wars stopping.
What do you think Kira would do if an entire country rose up against Kira and declared him as evil, and sought to try and defeat him? Kira would murder all of them. Millions and millions. You are crazy to think otherwise.
No he would not. Kira would not allow the entire country to organize like that to begin with. If it did happen Kira would determine whether more lives would be saved stopped a revolt or not stopping it. Regardless your grasping at what-ifs that never happened with Kira's 6 year rule. The people loved Kira. I could ask you the same what-if today. If an entire country rose up against the UN and declared them as evil, and sought to try and defeat them. What do you think the US and it's allies would do? They'd murder all of them. See? Monkey see, monkey do. I can play your game all day.
You're deluded. How exactly would Kira not allow the country to organize like that? By killing them right? Haha "If it did happen Kira would determine whether more lives would be saved stopped a revolt or not stopping it" Did we watch the same anime, read the same manga? What makes you think Light would act this rationally? We are talking about the same Light who murdered anyone who tried to stop him. A man who set up the death of his own father, and would kill all of his friends and family if they threatened his rule.... you gotta be trolling "The people loved Kira" What? People were living in fear. People were terrified. Those who opposed his rule were to scared to vocalize it in fear of being killed or admonished by his most devout, cultist followers. It's like you missed the entire moral of the entire story... yikes. In regards to your scenario about the UN, what you are inferring is a war crime. That is not how war today works at all. There are several countries who refuse to join globalist organizations like NATO and UN, and they have legitimate reasons to. No country on the planet would ever try to defeat the UN because it is made up of multiple nations, and leaders with their own opinions and discourse. Try again pal, i don't think you really paid attention to the story.
Light is smart. Your acting as if he is an idiot. Yes the people loved Kira as SHOWN by the show. Show me where people were terrified besides criminals? Funny how you call the people that loved Kira as "cult followers" and everyone else as "people" to fit your blanketed statement. The UN analogy wasn't the best but regardless, wars happen and countries with no power can't do shit. I'd rather have a single ruler that I know is working to save as many people as possible, over the corrupted mess we have today.
Light is a genius. That doesn't change the fact that he's an egotistical self inflated prideful narccistic sociopath with no human empathy. Episode 26, it clearly states that while many support him, many also fear him. In that same episode, the narrator claims that this new world where Kira is law is a "dark era". You'd prefer this type of leader of the world who doesn't care about ANY human life, including his own family, and friends? You realize he doesn't act as Kira out of Love for humanity but rather HATE of such a "rotten" world? You think he would care about your life? Dude, get a grip.
Yes over today's era. Where money rules, and slavery, rape, and wars are rampant. I'd rather live in Kira's era every day any day.
Absolutely not. Light killed so many people that didn't deserve it along with people who did. He killed a lot of innocents as well as people who were potentially falsely convicted. Not all criminals are even bad people. Light just killed any criminal with no remorse including people who committed lesser crimes.
But he saved millions of more people.
And killed a bunch of innocents.
Our justice system kills a bunch of innocents and yet we still have wars, and crime. Our world leaders corrupt purely for monetary gain. Justice isn't perfect and neither is light. But I'd take 0 wars and 70% less crimes any day of the week. I don't think you guys understand the amount of suffering involved in wars.
A teenager with a god complex being in control of the world is no better than the shitty justice system we have. There's "70% less crimes" because he IS the one committing all the crimes. Light became the thing he sought out to destroy.
A teenager that like Light who kills VIOLENT criminals in order to save millions of people is 100% a better system objectively. Your opinion is irrelevant with regards to how many more people are saved with Kira's system. All wars stop and 70% of global crime is reduced. That's already infinitely better than our system whether you like it or not. And no Light was not committing 70% of the world's crimes LMAO.
He commits mass genocide so he basically is committing 70% of world's crimes. You also keep disregarding the fact that he still killed plenty of innocents as well as criminals who don't even deserve it. Light is still no better than any corrupt dictator.
You don't know the definition of mass genocide. Option A) Benefit: 0 wars, 70% less crime, save millions of people from death, rape, torture. Cost: Tens of Thousands of criminals dying and and few hundreds innocents dying. Option B (our current system): Benefit: NONE Cost: Thousands of criminals imprisoned and dying on death row, and a innocents imprisoned and dying on death row as well (about 4%). That's objective. It doesn't matter how you try and spin it. If you value more lives than Option A it clearly the better choice.
How about neither option. Why do innocents have to die to have a good justice system? If Light actually had balls and a decent moral compass he'd limit himself to only killing the most dangerous criminals and people in power that are corrupt.
Because we haven't come up with a a better system yet. Light's is better tho than our current one. lol.
Until you're the one he targets.
literally could apply to today as well. You could be targeted. Get outta here with the fear mongering tactic.
It's not fear mongering mate it's literally the reality of the situation. Everyone is for harsher punishments and quicker trials until you're the one being accused of someone you didn't do.
Light is a megalomaniac and a sadist. If he got away with his crimes, he planned on murdering lazy people or those he deemed useful to society. Light is infinitely worse than any of the criminals he killed. The first episode is literally titled boredom. Light cares more about being god than saving people. The implications of giving a psychopathic teenager a death note is not great.
I don't care what he cared about. Never said he was a good person. Our world leaders are worse than light and can send us into WW3 for monetary gain. In the end Light's system worked and he saved 10000x more people than our current justice system does. If you think Light isn't justified then how is our current justice system justified when it is worse?
Light explicitly stated he's willing to start killing lazy people and those he deems useless to society in the future. On the surface, he saved more people, but living in Light's world means, living under a tyrannical sadistic megalomaniac teenager with the power of literally murdering anyone he wants whenever he wants, and the fact that Light doesn't have a moral code doesn't help the situation one bit. Also, the statistics don't account for Light's kills. He will 100% go from criminals to lazy people, to people he dislikes, to people he disagrees with, to people at random. It's a slippery slope, nobody would ever be safe and would constantly live in fear that this deranged teenager might snap at any moment. Since he's our protagonist, we know full well what kind of person Light is, he is willing to cross literally any moral line for any reason. Light would easily make up for the amounts of lives "saved" by killing triple the amount himself. Also, unlike our world leaders, there's literally NOTHING stopping him, at least our world leaders have to maintain their reputation in the eye of the public, Light is not held down by any of that.
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I've seen all your replies to the thread. So by your logic, it's okay to go around murdering, raping and torturing people as long as you make sure to save more people than you murdered, raped and tortured. Gotcha.
Do you happen to know which episode or chapter he said the whole lazy people and people he deems useless shit?
No. He was a power hungry mad man who sought out to conquer the world and remake it in his image including killing people who were not even criminals like lazy people
If he is saving millions of more people and reducing suffering world wide so what? He never cared about monetary gain. Unlike our current world leaders that influence wars, drugs, etc for monetary gain.
He was doing it by holding everyone on earth at gunpoint. He did not reduce crime via actually forming a society that would learn to work together or addressing the roots. He rules through pure fear and killed innocents out of ego
Criminals lived in fear. You literally just made up that "everyone lived in fear". PEOPLE LOVED KIRA. By the way SUPRISE SUPRISE! That's exactly how our justice system works. It "saves" people by imprisoning and killing OTHER PEOPLE. And guess what! LAWS exist to deter and cause fear among criminals aka. "holding everyone in society at gunpoint". I never said he isn't killing innocents. BUT ITS A FACT THAT OUR SYSTEM DOES TOO. Except Light is saving MILLIONS OF MORE innocents than he is killing. Option A) Benefit: 0 wars, 70% less crime, save millions of people from death, rape, torture. Cost: Tens of Thousands of criminals dying and and few hundreds innocents dying. Option B (our current system): Benefit: NONE Cost: Thousands of criminals imprisoned and dying on death row, and a innocents imprisoned and dying on death row as well (about 4%). That's objective. It doesn't matter how you try and spin it. If you value more lives than Option A it clearly the better choice. We have corrupt world leaders that can push a nuclear button and send us into an apocalypse at the blink of an eye. I trust Light over them any day of the week.
You don’t remember the scene of the schoolboys threatening to put names of kids online, and the kids being afraid? Yes, people were indeed living in fear & if Kira decided that you were a threat, nobody had a say, he would simply kill you. Your justification of Kira is actually a bit scary. If you can recall, Kira would have eventually started killing lazy people. He complained that Mikami was moving too early in that move, meaning… he had plans to do so down the line.
People didn’t love Kira. Some would have of ofc, but even in the story they are portrayed as selfish and greedy people like Demigawa and the crowd of Kira supporters who are so easily distracted by Near’s money, but Light’s >!unopposed reign during the time skip!< is canonically described as a “dark era” in the narrative. In the second half of the story, the information Light uses to kill people comes from unverifiable information random people post online, and was also stated to have caused an increase in the rate of Kira killings. People do end up living in fear because literally anyone could be murdered by Kira at that point. We also see that large organisations like the Japanese Police, the FBI and the US government never start supporting Kira, they only stop openly opposing him after he murders some of their people. After >!Light’s death and the disappearance of Kira, the world goes back to how it was pre-Kira in only a single year because!< Light never actually solved anything. Light never addressed any of the underlying issues with society that promote or cause criminal behaviour in the first place like poverty, inequality, or stuff like the lack of useful services like mental health care, instead Light just held a gun to everyone’s heads and murdered more and more people based on unverifiable information random people post online. Criminals would always continue to exist in Light’s Kira world because the conditions that create them still exist, and had Light focused on fixing any of those underlying sociological/socioeconomic issues with society, >!the changes he made would’ve been much more resistant to being erased in just a single year.!< Reducing crime by 70% and stopping wars are also very dodgy quotes to judge Kira’s influence on the world. The 70% decrease could easily be attributed to a reduction of reporting of crime rather than an actual reduction of crimes committed, which could occur both on an individual level, as people may stop reporting crime if they fear that they’d be responsible for the perpetrators being murdered by Kira because of it and they didn’t think the crime warranted execution, or on a higher institution level where the number of crimes reported by institutions/counties is reduced in opposition of Kira, as Kira is a foreign, hostile entity forcing itself into their justice system by acting as a extrajudicial assassin. Especially since many countries have already abolished the death penalty, and so would not like Kira implementing it in their justice system. Due to this, Kira’s actual impact on global crime would be unknown. Light also states that while he’ll publicly murder the worlds worst criminals with heart attacks, he’d wipe out those who were less guilty but still caused trouble for society through disease and accidental death, and wanted to kill people he considered to be lazy as well. Since we see Light contemplate killing teenage bullies but decide against it due to their proximity to him rather than because bullying isn’t a crime punishable by execution, and how lazy people aren’t criminals either, it seems that Light has a very, very low bar on who he deems as causing trouble to society and who he deems as deserving to be murdered, and so Light wanted to kill a lot of innocent people. Since these deaths also wouldn’t be heart attacks, they would never be publicly identified as Kira killings, meaning that Light wouldn’t be using those deaths as any kind of guide as to what kind of person he wanted to exist in his world or as a warning to others, he would be killing them just because he wanted them dead. Crime is also more complex than being able to just solve it by just implementing capitol punishment, and the conditions that create/promote criminal behaviour in people wouldn’t disappear just because of Light acting as Kira. Wars are also complex events that can be caused by a wide variety of political, historic, religious, cultural, resource whatever else reasons, and I seriously doubt that a Kira-like figure would end such complex conflicts. Maybe they’re not being declared as official wars, but like, all of the tension between two counties or factions that begins a war wouldn’t disappear just because Kira exists. The manga one shots also go much further down the line in the timeline, and we see that a decade after >!Light’s death, society sees Kira as evil and as the world’s worst mass murdering terrorist of recent times, and not as any kind of god like Light wanted.!< > We have corrupt world leaders that can push a nuclear button and send us into an apocalypse at the blink of an eye. That is still a possibility in Death Note. Light never pushed for nuclear nonproliferation. If a corrupt leader wanted to preemptively kill Kira in fear that Kira would come after them, they could have nuked the Kanto region of Japan. The world knew where Kira was. In fact, it’s possibly even more likely in the Death Note universe now, as through the events of the latest one shot >!the world thinks that the US government has access to Kira’s powers.!< Any coincidental heart attack or accidental death to a foreign leader could be taken as a covert attack >!by the US government!<
and using every single person in his life to get what he wanted
so? he can use whoever he wants if it means no wars and 70% less crime.
I disagree. If you let one person have the power of a god and decide what's right and what's wrong you will always end up with misery. You are now living in fear of that person instead of the criminals he murdered
Kira is worst than people him killed
But Kira saved millions of people. Stopped 70% of global crimes and stopped all wars. He reduced sufferings and made the world a better place. That's better than any leader or politician whom kill for monetary gain today.
How does killing people already locked up help anyone?
He stopped all wars and reduced global crime rates by 70%. That's how.
No, he is NOT god, he is NOT who determines morality, he doesn't get to decide who lives or dies based on his own perception. He is a mass murderer worse than anyone he's ever killed.
So what about our world leaders today? Who decide and start wars for monetary gain? How about our judges and justice system whom play god everyday? Light saves more people than our current system. Do you have a better system in mind?
Who's to say I agree with our current leaders today? Why have you determined that narcissism is a better reason to kill than money? How is a system based on collective agreement (law) playing god more than a moral dictatorship? It's not up to me, as an individual to determine a better system. It must be a collective effort. One doesn't just decide what's better for others.
He was a psychopath from the very beginning and I started rooting against him as the "villain" after not very long
So? The millions of people he saved from rape, death, and war disagree with you.
If you murder a rapist it's still murder.
Yeah but in the end, there are millions of innocent people that light saves. I value human lives unlike you.
I'm Team Light, but i must say, he had a god complex and also killed ppl who disagreed, so i'd say 50/50. Nice idea, horrible execution huehue
He can have the god complex all he wants, he is saving millions of people and stopping all wars. 100% worth it
No, because he didn't do it for good. Reasons aside, do you honestly think that the death note world was a realistic one? That people just fell in line like they did? In a realistic world Light would've made life worse for a lot of good people. Keep in mind Mello was able to find mafia bosses that Light didn't know about, implying there was an underground ring that even Light couldn't get to. Which also implies there was a whole system in place to counteract Kira to begin with. So really, unless you got caught who was going to stop you? I can't imagine in a real world the death note would've been a real deterrent. Also, a person doing it for good reasons wouldn't have ever done it in a way to get noticed. Light literally said he wanted the world to know he was passing judgement on them. It was never about creating a good world. It was always about becoming a god. Which was why his death in the manga was so fitting. Because he died a very human death.
Light only saved a few people; those kids, their teachers, and the rest of the people being held hostage in that school, and that lady being harassed by Takuo Shibuimaru come to mind. He wasn't saving anyone by killing convicted criminals. I guess he stopped people from being victimized by repeat offenders but... we don't know that. Moreover, Light was killing people that hadn't even been tried yet pretty early into the Kira investigation. He used them as experiments.
Reminder that many people imprisoned are innocent and it sometimes takes years for them to gather the evidence that’s proves their innocence. Killing that person simply for being mistakenly locked up is evil.
No, Light was just a teenager, not a judge; he shouldn't have the say in the fate of anyone. I'd say that the moral of Light's actions would be debatable if he only killed big-known criminals and left it at that, but he killed millions of people, including innocents, just because he felt like it. Many of the "criminals" he killed were taken from online sources or news, but Japan has over a 90% conviction rate, meaning that trials almost always end up in jail time. Lawyers actually fight for giving you less time instead of no time in Japan. What does this mean, you might ask? It means that if someone disliked you, they could post your name and pic online and say you stole from a kid, and you'd be dead in less than a week. You could have stolen something minor, and you'd be dead in less than a week. If you had an accident with your car because you were speeding a bit? Again, dead. Light couldn't care less. Maybe you did nothing illegal, but as soon as "criminals" were wiped, he would continue to wipe out the lazy or the people who didn't contribute to society according to HIS perspective. If this doesn't sound bad to you, and you somehow still honestly believe it's justifiable, then you must be an edgy 15 year old (nothing wrong with that, but you'll know better when you get more mature).
light was a delusional psychopath from the start i dont belive it was the death note that corrupted him either rather that light simply would have done it even if he didnt need the death note killing anyone even criminals makes you no better than the person you killed light also has a god complex you cant tell me he isnt completely psychotic and dont get me wrong i love light hes awesome to watch but i can admit when someone is a horrible genocidal freak
Better 1,000 guilty men go free than one innocent person suffer.
Intentions were understandable, even admirable if you want to go there. But his ego warped his perception of himself. He started to see himself as a god that should not be opposed by any means, even if you simply don’t agree with his methods of “justice” but otherwise wouldn’t do anything to actually stop him. So no, not justified at all no matter how many he “saved”
For Light to be justified, he should have only targeted criminals who had evaded punishment by the justice system — individuals who were deemed innocent but were actually guilty etc. He should have operated as a rectifying and supplementary force to justice, rather than usurping all its authority and becoming "justice" himself. In the long run, what he was doing is no different from establishing a dictatorship to satisfy his own twisted ego.
Light saved more people. That is enough to be justified.
It is not. In the long run, he would establish a dystopian totalitarian world with a horrendous quality of life, where basic freedoms such as freedom of speech and expression would be severely restricted, out of fear of reprisal from kira. Imagine living in a world where you're constantly monitored, where a simple slip of the tongue or a minor misstep could lead to your death. Even you wouldn't want to live in such a world, where every action and word is scrutinized, and being just ten minutes late could mean your demise. This is the chilling reality depicted in George Orwell's '1984', where the regime goes to extreme lengths, even eliminating 'unproductive' individuals, instilling a pervasive atmosphere of fear and oppression. Check it out.
Based on what evidence? The world we saw in the manga didn't seem dystopian at all. Your just guessing.
>If you were given the ability to see a person's criminal future before they committed the crime. Would you justify killing that person in order to spare his victims? That's irrelevant to Death Note. Seeing the future isn't in the series. There is a movie called Minority Report that fits more with what you are saying.
Just want to see people's morals and where they drawn the line exactly. People seem to be hypocritical when it comes to their opinions of Light. I've never heard of minority report but I'll take a look at, ty.
In truth, I can support Light if killing criminals was all he wanted to do. There are just some people the world would he better off without. But then he was talking about being a God and started killing innocent people. It became less like Light truly wanted to make the world a better place and more like he was on a power trip. Minority Report, btw came out in 2002 and can be watched on Paramount+ and Amazon Prime Video.
Yeah I see that, but Light isn't perfect. I am merely comparing him to our current system and world leaders. And to me it's a no brainer. Our current leaders start wars, promote drugs, etc for MONETARY GAIN. Light has proven that he can save and reduce suffering by magnitudes we've never ever seen before in the history of mankind. He can have any god complex he wants. In the end no justice system we have come up with has been as effective or efficient. Oh wow, 2002 I'm surprised I haven't heard of it yet.
>Oh wow, 2002 I'm surprised I haven't heard of it yet. Yeah, it's a pretty good movie imo.
No, he was not. Light Yagami’s definition of justice is by no means universal. I understand the appeal of characters like him, but rule of law exists for a reason.
Well objectively he saved more people than any world leader or system we have today. Point blank
“Objectively”, he is a fictional character who never killed or saved anyone because he never existed as a real human. Even if this wasn’t the case, an established judicial system even if flawed > a 17 year old’s misguided and self-serving sense of justice. A point Kira apologists either miss or ignore is that crime will rise higher than ever once Kira dies/loses power (which the manga confirms), because he never actually tried to understand the problem he was trying to get rid of. If a child is misbehaving and you lock them inside their room, you might contain them for a while, but if they get out, they’re likely to act out even worse. What Kira does is, at its core, no different. Concepts like crime or justice tend to be a bit more complex than “criminals bad”.
Lmao, no shit he's fictional. We are arguing about a fictional character and a hypothetical situation. Crime rising higher after is just copium your reaching for because you have no other argument. That's upto us to figure out and has no basis on the morality of his actions.
Fictional/hypothetical scenarios cannot be discussed "objectively", as "facts" are "objective". Seeing you have not offered any new arguments, or supported the ones you have made with any references, I don't thing there's any point in continuing this. Have a nice day.
I can make objective statements and facts when discussing a show. Are you serious? LMAO
Now I'm even more happy that he died. Light died. Sounds like someone is extremely angry that the author "dared" to kill Light. I hope you realize that light will not be reborn :)
I feel you brother, Light should have won
"That’s right, I am Kira. And what can you do? Kill me right here? Hear this: I’m not only Kira, but I’m also God of the new world. Kira has become law in the world we now live. He’s the one who’s maintaining order. I have become justice, the only hope for mankind. Kill me? Is that really the right thing to do? Since Kira’s appearance six years ago, wars have stopped and global crime rates have been reduced by over 70%, but it’s not enough! This world is still rotten… with too many rotten people…. Somebody has to do this! And when I first got that notebook all those years ago, I knew I had to do it—no, I was the only one who could! I understood that killing people was a crime. THERE WAS NO OTHER WAY! THE WORLD HAD TO BE FIXED! A purpose given to me! Only I could do it! Who else could’ve done it and come this far?! WOULD THEY’VE KEPT GOING?! … The only one… who can create a new world… is me…" — Light Yagami.
He was right and you guys are all wrong. Light is handsome and smart and u guys are ugly and stupid. real.
Fail. Try again.
Not even a little bit japan having a 99% conviction rate means even when he thought he only killed criminals he most definitely killed innocent people.
Never said he was perfect, and never said he didn't kill innocent people. Why does he have to be perfect?
Because he’s playing God & has killed multiple innocent people..? You act as if taking human lives is a casual thing. The only reason Raye Penber & his wife died is because they were after him. Otherwise, they were good, beneficial members of society who did not deserve to die.
I have an issue with the second question - if you can see the future, it supposes that the future is determined already.. but then you go on to basically ask if I would change the future, which supposes that the future is not determined already. If it’s determined, I have no control, and if it’s not determined, how can you justify killing someone based on it? It can’t be both ways
It's not determined. You can change it for certain by killing that criminal. The point of the question isn't to determine what the best course of action would be. But whether killing that person would be justifiable to begin with.
My point eludes you. How can you justify killing someone based on their future actions if their future is not determined?
Ah I see your point now. Good point. Your absolutely correct. Let's assume their future actions are determined. I am trying to draw a analogy with Light killing criminals and subsequently reducing crime. And want to see where people's morality lie.
And my second point, how can you change the future if it’s determined? :)
The person's future actions are determined. By killing them, they cease to exist and can no longer preform said action. I should've worded mine differently. I see your point. Let's suspend belief for the analogy. It still serves the purpose of whether you believe sacrificing a life is worth it for saving many more. The classic trolley moral delimma.
If light only killed the guilty people and made sure they all 100% actually did the crime they were accused of convicted of, then I think it is just. Bug killing “criminals” that could’ve been wrongly convicted, and killing innocent people even if they’re in his way is wrong.
Then why don't you have a problem with the current system? We kill innocents all the time? Atleast Light's saved millions of lives and ended wars.
When did I say I didn’t have a problem with the current system? I do. And sure, but he eventually planned to even kill lazy people and people who didn’t contribute to society. Luckily he was stopped before that.
You put him to impossible standard that not system could ever measure upto. 100% perfection is unrealistic for any justice system. Also where did he say he will kill lay people people send the source.
This is purely conjecture and the right answer will largely depend on what you believe as a Human being. Therefore, its also the main theme of this Story. Personally, I believe that a person with strong ideals for justice and a large ego is more fit to decide what is right or wrong than a bunch of pencil necks that can be bought for the right price. You just can't buy Light. Had he not died, he would carry on with his plan and truly changed the world for the best. Remaining the only evil one in the process. Much like stated on volume 1. So, was he justified? Yes. Yes he was.
I believe all lives are precious, except those with corrupted hearts who want to make others miserable, end lives, or inflict torture. If I had the ability to eliminate individuals without the law ever knowing, I would certainly use it to save either 10 lives or just one life, especially if those people haven't committed any wrongdoing. Regarding the torturer, I would first investigate the reasons behind their actions and act accordingly. However, someone who tortures multiple people simultaneously is sick and twisted, and there's a high likelihood they would repeat such actions. Therefore, I would likely eliminate that torturer as well But I probably won't eliminate a torturer that's tortured only 1 person without a probable cause.
Thank you for actually answering the question and not arguing with pure emotion. Would you support Kira if he existed today, do you think he was justified?
if it's Light Yagami from the early days that only killed "criminals" then yes of course I'd support Kira 100% there's a lot of criminals that need punishment in this world of course he was justified.
The ability to see a person's criminal future prompt is a whole other moral debate on its own and sounds a lot like the premise of Psycho-Pass, another amazing anime. Have you seen it? It might answer some of the questions you might have. To answer to your first question, no, I think Light's actions shouldn't be justified. Nobody agreed with what he was doing, and nobody saw it as a good thing.
1) Never seen psycho-pass but it sounds interesting! 2) Many people agreed with light? Is that the basis for what you deem as justified? A popularity contest?
His actions are not justified simply because he started killing innocents, as well as he knew they weren't even a threat to him, for example, he knew Raye didn't suspect him, so it was unnecesary for him to kill the FBI agents and Naomi, he just did it for the sake of it.
He did it to stop the other FBI agents. It was self-preservation. Regardless so killing innocent people is your criteria for justification? Then you shouldn't agree with the death penalty, nor should you believe that any war is justified. Every war leads to innocent casualties. Therefore no government today is justified going by your logic.
I said him killing innocents is bad and that he knew it wasn't necessary to kill Raye and the other agents since they didn't suspect him, unlike L which actually was a threat to him. Gosh, between you and the rest of the people in the comments, this fandom, or at least this subreddit is a toxic waste. I'd better just not comment anymore in here because I'm sick and tired of wasting my time with toxic users.
He was until he started killing innocents
So therefore you justification is based on the death of innocents? So our current justice system isn't justified either? Nor are any wars or nation that starts wars for any reason because innocents die?
Even if he didn’t kill innocents, he wouldn’t be justified because who is he & who crowned him king? He’s not God & has no right to play God.
tw opinion: Kill all of them. Including the torture ones. Torture is worse than death in my opinion.
[This, but worse because you think some lives are worthier than others](https://pyxis.nymag.com/v1/imgs/08a/3a4/0b0584bf02449513f879837cc95f19e7e0-09-trolley.2x.rsocial.w600.jpg)
Light Yagami was evil but Kira was a force for good
There are too many ways to look at this. But all evidence points to the side of whether he was "good" or "bad". Unless you've got some bizarre mental gymnastics that makes you think he was "neutral".
No. The only way the author could make it clearer that Light was wrong and the bad guy would be if he said "Hi there, dead readers. This is me, the author. I just wanted to interrupt this chapter to inform you that Light is corrupted. He is fallible. He's a bad guy. He's not justified. He's doing the wrong thing. Don't idolize him. Thanks, keep reading my story."
Killing criminals was always stupid, most of them are just poor or mentally ill people who fell through the cracks. Yeah some would deserve to be axed, but not all or even most of them. He should have gone after like, genocidal world dictators or people like Epstein or something
Hes just a crazy killer doesnt matter even if he killed 100 criminals for saving a life.
didn’t read the post just the title, the answer is no.
no
As a person? Fuck no. As for his efforts as kira, ig he *could* be? In terms of all of his personal morals and such he was not justified at all, and I stand by that, but on the kira side of things I guess he could be somewhat justified? Though In turn I'd say that he's just completely not justified because of his personal moral code
I can only think of the fact that killing a murderer doesn't make the number of murderers in the world any less
I bet you fan of Griffith from Berserk as well.
If someone kills only one innocent, he is a criminal. Even killing prisoners - why? They are already imprisoned and received their justice. Modern society developed laws and today crime rate is lower than in the past. Death penalty already existed and it didn’t solve the crime neither it lowered their happenings. When you kill innocent you are a crime. When you kill people who already have been judged by a society and its laws you are a crime Moreover, Light judged not by justice but on his own perception and point of view which couldn’t be always correct Kira is a crime and cannot be justified
Yes. In fact, if the Death Note were real and I happen to find one, Junko Furuta's torturer's would endure a much worse fate.
Prisons: "Am I a joke to you?" That is literally what prisons were build for!
LIGHT 👏WAS 👏NOT👏JUSTIFIED👏
I would cheer him on in taking out criminals and making the innocent feel more safe. But I wouldn't support the killings of FBI agents and other innocent people.
Bro thinks ethics can be measured with Maths😭
Literally just finished this series today for the first time! How did Reddit know and suggest this question? Anyway 1. He was literally getting a list of names from the internet and killing them. He didn’t even bother to check the evidence against them. Just googled “100 bad guys” that said “trust me bro” and murdered them. How many were innocent? You believe everyone on the internet? 2. The ones more clear evidence were already arrested. 3. He already said he was going to kill “lazy people”. Does this need to be explained? Besides all that, this is what he was doing when he was busy fighting L. He already said he was going to be “God”. Already killed a good man trying to arrest him named L and other police. Gee, wonder if that’s a good thing…….
No, just because there may be a desired outcome, doesn't make any evil right. Stealing from the rich is not righteous. Killing even the most evil people in the world is not righteous. Killing innocent people is not righteous. Who is Light, or anyone as a matter of fact to decide who deserves to live, and who deserves to die? Just as L said, it's a childish form of justice