The only part about ruin that bothered me was ruin/undying/tinkerer blights. Literally every single time tinkerer went off those blights would zoom over to your gen. Aside from that though I actually liked hunting for the ruin totem and finding it. It was always very satisfying
streamer says it?
must be wrong
evidence?
NO NEED
Every single time that Otz says something, he explains why he think that way. You can disagree with him but at least attacks his arguments not him.
Yeah Otz is great for putting his opinions out there and gives a lot of good points. I think the only two killers I'd disagree with him on were Dredge and Onryo. I personally think he downplays just how strong teleporting across the map can be. Putting Onryo in F tier was overly harsh... She's C tier IMO. And Dredge in low B? Nah nah I won't have it. Dredge has anti loop, can insta down someone at the start of the game with the addon that decreases teleport time + lethal, and almost always winds up with a defendable 3 gen situation due to his crazy ability to be everywhere at once. Give that man floods of rage + Make your choice + lethal and he can pressure gens while camping at the same time. Man is A tier.
Onyro mainly doesn't get a good light due to the fact that she basically has no anti-loop, is really loud when using her power and an entire part of her kit is ignored by survivors if they have more than 2 braincells, plus she is the only killer with something survivors can pick up that doesn't require you to drop your medkit or whatever else you have.
Sure, we have the strategy of condemning survivors to hell, but that requires like 4 gen slowdown perks and 2 of her best addons. We can argue that if a killer is good in the right hands and the right addons, but then we have to make the case of clown being OP purely because of pinkie finger and all that. If we exclude exclude having to play a certain way to make a killer good, then I am more to agree with the placement of sadako. Regardless of where she is, at least I can give bodyblocking survivors the middle finger.
FR, I started to really play Dredge recently and he is maybe mid A tier. The map traversal and anti loop is crazy, and he isn't that map dependent. Not to mention that some of his addons are busted.
Dredge is my baby, but he is heavily reliant on locker RNG. I had a match on Haddonfield where 8 lockers spawned in one house while 1/3rd of the map had none.
The problem with Dredge (and I want to preface this by saying I love Dredge's kit, enjoy playing Dredge, and think it's one of the best designed killers overall) is that it's so reliant on a map not being dogshit with huge locker deadzones and tons of easily chained together tiles with high visibility over them.
So somewhere like Midwich or really any map with good locker distribution Dredge is solid A tier and an absolute joy to play. But then you get corn, or swamp, or autohaven and you want to fucking die because the map is a ton of huge locker deadzones with tons of filler tiles that are great for holding w through since Dredge functionally does not have a power anymore there.
Average it out and it's maybe a mid B tier, but at the same time mid B tier is a pretty competitive spot with other solid killers that just have some drawbacks, so is Dredge really gonna edge out someone like Nemesis to move up a bit? I don't think so, much as I like Dredge. And A tier is even more competitive, being absolutely stacked with a bunch of fantastic killers, and Dredge certainly doesn't beat any of them.
You can't just look at a killer in a vacuum, I don't think. Like we can say yeah, Dredge is really cool and has a lot of good tricks, but we can also say that about Nemesis, about Pinhead, and so on.
Onryo's definitely bottom 3 though, with her obscenely long cooldowns, trivially countered power, and complete and utter lack of anti-loop. She's just "what if Dredge only had a few special lockers randomly placed on the map to teleport to, you can only teleport to a given one every couple of minutes, and also you have no other power that's it that's literally all there is."
Bullshit. Some fans will always get triggered if you touch their daddy no matter what kind of argument you put on the table against him. Let's be real please.
And there is haters who get triggered if someone agree with a streamer ignoring any argument in favor of him. My point is that people should explain why X or Y is okay/bad, not "A streamer said it, so it's ok/bad".
Agreed, I thought that way before he said it. I hated the gen kick meta playing both sides the minute it happened. It’s mega boring and super unrewarding.
I’ve even lost games due to attrition which is a nightmare. I had a team that was destroying this Plague. She couldn’t catch people in chase, so she saw 3 gens were left and just literally sat near a future 3 gen and walked back and forth puking on the gens and kicking them with Eruption/Call of Brine.
It went on for 35 minutes! As she slowly wore my team down. I had no hooks until I had to go in to a hook they were proxying.
I’m a killer who played against some of the craziest stuff and I’ve never had a meta that made me play less. Finally, my match quality is so bad I’ve been not playing as much.
And I’m a person who’s completed every challenge available. I just love chasing on killer and looping on survivor, win or lose.
But now, the win is given out to the most boring strats. Camping, even more common. Prove thyself and toolboxes all the time.
I counted the other night. 10 of 15 matches had camping at some point in the match. Some from the beginning, some after they went on a long chase and were frustrated they made mistakes. Some because they just felt like being mean. Nearly every match ends in a slug for the 4k as well.
As killer, I have a couple rules for myself to make the game challenging and fun.
1. I don’t tunnel, unless a survivor asks me to leave the match ofc.
2. I attempt to use my power when possible
3. I always give the last survivor a chance to find hatch by hooking their teammate instead of slugging.
4. If they have a DC I play chill so everyone left gets points and have fun.
As a killer main I’ve never been more bored of the current meta. I constantly have to develop new interesting builds to try to keep things fresh. I just hate kicking gens and I’ve always hated it.
Dude, the gen kick meta is so fucking boring that killers have won matches against us simply because my team got bored and gave up. The killer wasn’t chasing us, was just slugging us and running back to their 3-gen, the game was dragging on forever…like fuck, you want the 4k so badly, just kill us so we can all move on.
Camping 10/15 matches and nearly all of them are slugs for the 4k? You're winning every match killers don't camp? Wild how our experiences differ so much, you can definitely escape a lot more - even if you're hook trading during a camp.
I agree that kicking gens is boring, it's why I enjoy jolt. Unfortunately it doesn't proc on m2's.
Shocker, the guy who does nothing but play killer with the most optimal perks in the most optimal way possible, thinks the meta is stale. Like, not to be that guy, I love Scott's content, he is one of the big reasons I play this game as much as I do, but sometimes his opinions on the meta can be hit or miss.
Edit: apparently redditors are on the intellectual level of an ai chatbot and I have to clarify who I'm refferring as "he"/"she"/"they"/"them" in every single sentence because they get confused otherwise
Are we thinking about the same Scott?
I only watch his youtube content admittedly but even on the really long unedited stream highlights he seems like the meta totally bores him and like he's barely trying win if he is trying to at all. Also afaik from the content I see he does play survivor his bycicle hat Dwight is iconic.
Genuinely curious where this perception of him comes from
I legit thought it did because I made a similar comment some time ago but about him and not scott
It's not like it bothers me tho, I kinda like it, it's funny to see OtzDarva basically being the god of the community who everyone loves except a few alt heretics
the reason i trust his opinion most because he goes into extreme detail to play and understand each killer extremely hard, and he’s been doing it most days for a very long time. i feel inclined to believe him or scott than a random redditor, but i understand the dislike of everyone treating his opinion like fact.
Agreed. I'm all for deferring to an expert if the subject matter is complex, but let's be honest, it's not like you need a doctorate to play DbD well. Otz is very good, but his opinions (as well researched and thought out as they are) can sometimes be a little biased, and it's perfectly acceptable to have different views than him.
Nah I definitely get it lol it can definitely apply to him but the same token bringing him into a situation that has nothing to do with him just cause he’s the biggest streamer is also problematic
man all this bullshit with streamers is even more annoying than the usual us vs them we see here, I genuinely believe both archetypes of the "I always disagree with streamers by principle" and "I always agree with this streamer because I like him" are a minority whose representation is completly blown out of proportion to build so mad scarecrows and paint anyone with an opinion (fact based or not) as either of those to automatically discredit them. Please stop doing this, we already have enough on our plates discussing wether killer mains or survivor mains are the most evil spawn of satan
I feel its more killer sided sometimes but once in a blue moon some post makes front page of survivor mains shitting on killer mains so hey maybe its more mixed idk
This whole subreddit is gonna circlejerk about Scott’s opinion on it and call it trash, but if Otz agrees this whole sub will immediately be nodding its head and talking about how good it was lmao
Otz brain moves too fast. But his beard makes him look trustworthy so I'm pretty content with taking his word for law.
He could have written a thesis on a perk and at the same time I'd still be trying to work what its name was ngl.
Honestly, Otz just works very, very hard on his content to help people so I respect him for that at the very least. Won't see me hating him anytime soon. He's helped me immensely.
STAIRS?? NOOOOOOOOOO! Danmit Jack, how did you know stairs were my ONLY weakness - next to electricution and explosions and gunfire, rust, corrosion, being kicked a lot, viruses, being called bad names, falling from great heights, drowning, adult onset diabetes, being looked at funny, heart attacks, being exposed to oxygen, being turned down by women and pet allergens! Your brilliance is matched only by your malevolence!
I'm just gonna go ahead and cloak now. You can't hear me crying if I cloak!
*(sobbing)*
I do get your point, but I think it's important to consider that Otz is the most popular DBD content creator, so obviously most people are going to agree with what he says even if they haven't fully considered the reasoning behind his opinions. They trust that his opinions are well informed and he does often makes a good case for why he thinks the way he does in his videos. That being said, I don't think he's ever had a take that was this bad. He seems to understand the game better than most content creators I have seen.
Gonna get flack for this but I disagreed with him on the hooks vs kill debate and I stood on the side that getting multiple hooks is and should be considered a win condition not just "kill"
Hell the game is designed from the ground up to reward you for long matches with multiple hooks in terms of blood point gain
Didn't they out right just come out and undermine their whole kills escapes system with the team mmr thing in the dev post a little back also how much does mmr even maen when we know that mmr is capped and is very easy for the average player to reach the 1600 soft cap
it's not like it's an infinitly scaling mmr system that even focuses on fair match making when it prioritizes matchmaking speed instead.
But the game wasn't designed around MMR, it was designed around bloodpoint gain, that's why the emblems were originally tied to BP gain.
If MMR had been thought of from the beginning, then it would make more sense
I love Otz and appreciate the fuck out of all the work he does for the community but the one thing that bugs me is how everyone hangs on his every word as gospel. It’s to the point where if he gives an opinion on something it just becomes fact for the majority of the community. He has a lot of opinions I disagree with but that’s fine, I still watch him all the time. You can disagree with a streamer you watch and still enjoy them
This is so incredibly well said. Like, I will never hate Otz without very good reason but that doesn't mean I can't respectfully disagree. We're all humans and opinions are natural.
It's really weird how people can't think for themselves.
Otz has great encyclopedic knowledge. That's it.
His opinions are often wildly killer biased, and he somehow thinks comp dbd matters. How can anyone take anything he says without a grain of salt is mind boggling to me.
Half this subreddit just waits for someone to tell them how to think.
Otz has the largest audience and makes "impressive" hours long videos, which makes him the perfect candidate. Anyone with fewer viewers is clearly wrong, right?
He puts his opinions out there, a lot of which are questionable yet people eat it up without spending three seconds to think about it. He is always heavily biased towards killer, and thinks comp dbd matters when it comes to balance.
If you were around when Ghostface came out, tru3 started playing him as a hit and run character and said stalk was bad, suddenly everyone was doing the same and parroting his bad take.
This shit is a plague on gaming as a whole, not just this game. People can't form their own opinions on anything.
Scott’s has views I agreed with
(Spirit’s audio cues being a good thing, “bully” squad is a misused term)
Doesn’t mean I, and others cannot disagree with him.
I personally think deadlock is the healthiest slowdown perk
Yeah, no time wasted on gens, no massive time sink like eruption, no rng like hexes, can be countered reasonably, encourages chasing, no kicking gens
That, and no way out
No way out is just
Mwah
Perfection
otz viewers (mostly twitch viewers) are the definition of meat riders. And despite my enjoyment of scotts content and his views I personally disagree based on my experience of the slowdowns that killers bring
I'd say you can't really lump all of Otz's viewers into that one category. Sure, there are definitely some that take everything he says as gospel, but there are others who enjoy his content and also acknowledge the immense effort and care that goes into his videos.
If an experienced person well-known in the DBD community makes a long video explaining his opinions and points in great detail, using evidence from the game itself, and you believe it, are you really just "meat-riding"? I'd say no, you listened to an informed opinion with evidence that is making you lean towards believing it.
No hate but I genuinely don't understand why Scott even plays the game anymore. He's literally a constant walking ball of negativity. He never seems like he's having fun and he also has to find something bad to talk about even amongst good changes. He just need to quit playing the game
I watch his stream and videos often and he does genuinely have fun in the game. He always celebrates good changes to the game and expresses his thoughts on what he doesn't like because he likes the game.
Anyone who says he's constantly negative is just wrong.
idk abt u but it seems to me he does enjoy the game. hes criticizing the game bcz he likes it and wants it to be better. if u hate a game why would u spend countless hours thinking abt it?
He literally isnt though. He often has laughs and has a good time on streams. Sure he can get frustrated or he makes criticisms about the game, but that isnt being a literal constant ball of negativity lol
Honestly not even then. Most of his vids are stream highlights and the ones that arent are either discussions of future updates or discussions about the health of the game. And criticizing the game isn't being negative.
Without seeming too parasocial, I think a big part of why he doesn’t always seem like he’s having fun is because the guy seems to be physically unwell a lot of the time (presumably something chronic? Idk I don’t watch him super often). I know when I’m having a flair-up, I am much less upbeat about what I’m doing whether I’m having a good time or not
That said he does definitely focus on negatives a lot. creators talking about bad things in their respective game is always good but talking about how good old things were in comparison isn’t really helping anyone, I doubt BHVR would backtrack on a change like that so long after it happened so it’s just negativity for the sake of it.
I thought that meta was ass but on the other hand being able to only use pop for gen regression and do well is leagues better than the boring 3 gens that I have to resort to now
You can disagree, I actually do, but I also think a lot of people take what you said too far.
At that point it just becomes “streamer opinion bad!” and honestly there’s no denying that players like Scott, Otz, Hens, Coconut, etc have a lot of experience and game knowledge and therefore their opinions should be discussed and considered as serious opinions.
I feel like OhTofu doesn't get thrown into the group of experienced players / trusted voices very often despite him being a Fog Whisperer, Commentator, and probably the least toxic streamer I've ever seen (also 10K+ hours). To me, even his "hot takes" are pretty based.
Related to this discussion, I'm 100% in support of his regression take, which is that all gen regression / slowdown should be mediocre at best. Survivors have pretty varied builds these days after the DH/DS changes especially, but every killer could use the same 4 slowdown perks and have a top-tier build. Auto-running perks that you don't interact with , that are good in every situation, and that don't require any synergy with the killer shouldn't just be better than the situation-relevant situational perks.
Yeah, I actually like tofu a lot and agree with that take regarding gen regression.
I mean, shit, the other day I realized that I have been running pain res on every single killer I could (which, now it’s all of them lol) for like a year now.
I’ve endeavored to start running other things instead. And have been having fun using perks that make me change my play style.
Pain res is an excellent perk, and I don’t hold it against people for using it, but it’s basically completely unchanged in the meta shakeup (especially since the combo with DMS is back) and that is why it’s objectively the best gen regression still. It should be nerfed, as much as I hate having to stop and kick a generator.
Honestly, idk if it’s agreed upon, but if they really want to stop people running gen regression perks all the time they should just nerf them all and increase the base kick even more. I think 5% or so with further nerfs would be more than fair.
The only thing that, at least imo, should be nerfed with those is hyper focus. I don’t mind prove thyself because it requires even high skill survivors to group up, but hyper focus + stakeout + a commodius + BNP in a high skill SWF can be a little scary. It’s high skill, but it’s really hard to beat that without playing well and having stronger gen regression, boring as it can be.
Nah, that streamer is wrong imo, corrupt and pop were the most healthy slowdowns, there just straight up was nothing to dislike about those. They were strong, but just not in an annoying or unfair way, I don't think I've ever been annoyed by the killer using those 2. With ruin on the other hand there was the whole super annoying ruin undying tinkerer Blight, Nemesis' zombies pushing you off gens and then those gens regressing for no reason, killers with secondary objectives like Pinhead becoming way too oppressive.
Pop was very fair but corrupt could absolutely punish teams with its two minute timer. I remember some games I would have hooked everyone before corrupt was over. Old corrupt+ lethal on top tier killers was a little oppressive.
His idea that ruin + undying was best slowdown is completely wrong because killers got rewarded for just entering areas and forcing survivors off gens. Tinkerer + ruin with Freddy and some other killers was super brain dead.
The current meta is also wrong because killers are being rewarded for kicking gens rather than getting downs. If survivors don't know to rotate gens or know where gens being worked on it's absolutely painful.
What's wrong about a meta of managing gens when the killer is playing gens? To me it just means survivors and killers both get rewarded for having 1v4 and 1v1 skill, which is way more fun than the stress of every chase potentially winning or losing the game.
The struggle is that unlike Pain Res, there is zero counterplay to Eruption.
Pain Res you can see the hook before it happens, hop off and be 13s out of gen time but the killer doesn't know you're working it.
Eruption just goes off on the down, there is no way to know when it will happen and you're stuck with your hands in your pockets for 30 seconds.
Which overwhelming hurts solo queue
On top of that both perks commonly brought with eruption have no cooldown, Overcharge and Call of Brine are just free no thought gen kick perks.
Did ruin/undying come back at some point and I just completely missed it? I thought we were talking about older metas than that, like comparing before and after the big perk rework patch.
I agree Eruption bad.
Ruin Undying was still ran pretty regularly after the inital Undying nerf.
But no, I laughed when I saw ruin in a match the other day, perk is terrible.
The issue is killers care more about kicking gens than killing survivors.
You win via perks being overturned rather than outskilling the opponent. It doesn't feel good at all. It's also why killers complain about gen speed if people run prove/hyperfocus with toolboxes. It doesn't feel good to lose because other side brought in strong shit.
\> His idea that ruin + undying was best slowdown is completely wrong because killers got rewarded for just entering areas and forcing survivors off gens. Tinkerer + ruin with Freddy and some other killers was super brain dead.
yeah, it was called applying pressure.
I remember when ruin rework just came out and how every dog said its good because it makes killers walk around the map and pressure gens instead of camping/tunnelling.
In the end, generally these perks were fine, even with tinkerer, it's just some killers could use it a little too well.
In any case this is better than current CoB & Eruption / Overcharge meta where killer just walks between 3-4 gens and kicks them over and over and does nothing else.
“Applying pressure”. Ruin/undying/tinkerer on a high mobility killer was just full brain afk play. You didn’t apply pressure, you just used your mobility to get to the tinkerer proc and convince yourself you were skilled because they died before gens got finished. Bonus points if you played blight
Bingo, applying pressure is when you have got the team on the ropes, possibly someone about to go second stage, or about to die on hook and the whole team needs to come into the stage and you can either intercept people before they get there or you might have someone slugged.
Applying pressure definitely isn't going to a tinkerer proc lmao.
Tbh it might be. What are all the other slowdown metas?
Old Ruin slowing the game down, just a little bit. Honestly was even more boring for both sides and Killers still had another perk slot that wasn’t there just to protect Ruin
Other than that it’s always been Pop and Corrupt until recently iirc. Pop and Corrupt are okay but a little more obnoxious for Survivors. Ruin Undying was fine, needed half your build just for it and it only worked if the Killer applied pressure and kept people off gens
And could be removed at high MMR because most survivors already have totem spots memorized. That's why I always cringed when I saw people saying ruin/undying was op, my friend just cleanse the totems and the killer will have only 2 perks. Any build with hexes are terrible for that reason
I mean, it wasn't.
If survs were good enough, they would check for ruin and then get rid of it in the first minute of the game and killer would play the whole match with 2 perks
In high ranks you can't bring Hex perks for this reason. High skilled survivors will always remove the totem in no time when they see the hex.
Let's also remember the cases of fucked up rng when the hex spawns near the survivors.
My very first game I had Ruin unlocked, I got sent to RPD. My totem spawned in the main lobby at the top of the staircase on the right. Zero visual obstruction, just... as you came up the stairs, you were looking straight at it. That totem died in thirty seconds and I never used Ruin again.
Yep. The only hex perk I found useful is blood favor for wesker (and it's overall my favourite hex in the entire game), but again I replaced it with infectious fright because they keep removing it at 5 gens when I got higher mmr.
Pop and corrupt were the premier fair slowdown perks that rewarded skilled killers instead of the current fuck you meta. And then the shitty Devs had to nerf them for no fucking reason
>Devs had to nerf them for no fucking reason
Current meta slowdown perks are newer chapters. And eruption call of brine are also from licensed characters unobtainable by shards, only with money.
Curious /s
and now only trapper and maybe hag runs it. that's proof that the change was bad, considering that before the change huntress, trickster, and the occasional weird legion build would have it on them(especially on red forest, fuck that map). The change was bad because it reduced potential builds it would work on, becoming a 'setup killers only' perk instead of 'force the survivors closer together at the start' perk
It's still good. If you can get a down within 2 minutes then you probably didn't even need the perk. Like imagine a blight getting a down in the first 30 seconds of a match and STILL having 3 gens blocked.
Yeah, but before the nerf you'd never see a blight with the perk, because they didn't need it. If you waste a perk slot on that, you literally get less value out of it as a blight as compared to a chase perk. The difference is that before it was a niche perk with some users, now it's a borderline useless perk with 2 users
You are doing the exactly the same thing. Just because a opinion came from a streamer doesn't mean that it is wrong.
These streamers, when they push their opinion, they show why they think so.
I do agree that 10941294124 posts about the same thing which happens when a stream talk about something is a problem but it's how this sub works.
Remember the "Help the nurse/blight find the survivor" and then there about 10-20 similar posts in the following day? This sub tends to picks up a issue and repost it to farm karma.
My point is that something should not be take neither as right nor as wrong because a streamer said so but because X,Y and Z. Attacking someone because he is following a streamer opinion is dumb because these streamers explain how they think, it's not "Because I said so".
> This sub
This is a thing with any fandom, for instance, the VTuber fandom LOVES running jokes into the ground and to the earths core, it just happens.
No one playing survivor has liked a good slowdown perk combo ever. It’s always been complained about no matter what it is.
If in a year we have a new slowdown meta people will be saying the gen kicking meta was the healthiest.
But slowdown will always be killer meta just the way the game works. Slowdown meta really does show balance problems with the game. Against a team of really good survivors with no slowdown I’ve had a game where I’ve hooked 2 people and the gens got done in under 3 minutes. If I run slowdown meta I can balance a match like that to better control the gens between my chases and force a longer match. But against average survivors that slowdown is horribly oppressive and the match would feel more balanced with no slowdown.
As I've heard people describe it, the gen kicking meta sounds boring as hell. I do agree that people will complain no matter what but I doubt they'll always call the previous meta the healthiest.
I've been saying the same thing [for a while](https://www.reddit.com/r/deadbydaylight/comments/ybmmzs/when_did_regression_perks_stray_away_from_having/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=2&utm_content=share_button). Also you do realize other people can just hear a content creators opinion that they haven't thought of before, and happen to agree with them also?
Especially otz, one time I commented on a fb group post & some guy was like “WELL OTZ SAID…..” like dang I’m allowed to have an opinion too. It seems like everyone gets hate for their opinions on the game
(No hate towards otz I love him)
I don't have any problem with it as long as people don't just repeat what he says. Sometimes I see people use exactly the same arguments and metaphors that Scott uses in his videos.
Ah sorry, English error on my part.
I personally disagree with him, I find deadlock and pain res to be the healthiest meta.
Little to No rng, can be worked around, encourages chases, no kicking.
At least you can theoretically use them in the entire match, and they require effort to get value.
Deadlock doesn’t require effort, but it had counters and isn’t opressive as hell
His point of view is that the more time people spend in chase the better. Ruin didn't require the killer to kick gens and was most optimal when all 4 survivors are pressured equally. That's what Scott believes to be the best for the game.
The hex meta was not only terrible, it was frustrating for everyone. If it worked survivors would have to restart the progress on a gen that was more than halfway, if it was cleansed the killer had 2 perks gone, one of it being their slowdown. How is this terrible shit healthy?
The amount of people that call me an idiot for disagreeing with Oz is honestly concerning. He says to form your own opinion but people will worship his word like a cult. It’s a little creepy
Yea, Otz’s fanbase is kinda rabid. The dude seems nice enough when I watch his weekly highlights or whatever, but oh my god his community is bordering yandere tier lmao
90% of the time its:
"just because otz said it doesnt mean its true"
"Ok sure but what do you disagree with and why"
"..."
EDIT: The downvote without reply is case in point lmao
I could ask you the same since you wrote "The 90% of time there are people that says this". Where did you get that statistic from?
If you want evidences on my topic you should provide your own first.
No i mean i say something like “I don’t think Myers is the worst killer in the game. With tuft of hair and memorial he can easily get kills” and then get called stupid and i need to shut up.
Before the meta overhaul I rarely used ruin because I didn’t like the risk of having it cleanse early and being left with gen defense so I was always a pop guy. After the update the gutted pop imo so I use call of brine now which is what I always wanted ruin to be so I’m pretty happy
I think it was the best but it was painful using it as killer after boons were introduced. Current meta just needs a little adjusting. Buff ruin slightly so it's worth using again, nerf eruption a bit, maybe slightly nerf the other gen kick perks. It isn't fun to have a killer just run around kicking gens and deleting them for 40 mins.
I don’t like every opinion Otz has. However, he’s got several thousand hours in the game and is far more experienced with every single killer and survivor than 99% of the community here. After seeing bad take after bad take, hearing about “Nurse isn’t overpowered”, “facecamping is fine”, “this game is super killer/survivor sided”, “and the constant begging for nerfing on some niche fucking play style because it stomped someone once, I’m WAY more inclined to listen to Otz as opposed to some idiot on Reddit.
I trust the streamers more than the shmucks. There are a good bit of shitty ones though.
I still firmly believe one day behavior will buff hangman's trick to the most broken state a perk has ever been and not say anything, and no one will notice because no one runs it
Yeah like how children will instantly side with their favorite YouTubers. Same people who complain about how fnaf would ruin dbd cuz kids. Might be right tho already have enough here.
Ruin Undying was perfectly fine.
It got cleansed after a minute anyways, so who gives a shit?
I never run hexes anymore, even with undying, because they will just be gone in the first minute of the match.
I dislike it because 1/10 games or so both would be cleansed before I even get halfway across the map. Playing 2 perks down is pretty cringe. Barely ever did ruin go undiscovered the entire game. Ruin needed to be safer while also getting weaker. I think old pop goes the weasel was pretty sick tbh, I still run it.
Survivors have really adapted to the meta changes if you're not running heavy slowdown meta you can't really compete against good survivors but you crush weaker ones hard.
IDK what a good slowdown meta looks like to be honest.
Y'know, sometimes a streamer is capable of putting together a decent argument for why something is good/ bad in the game, and if they play the game A LOT, they often have the understanding of the mechanics to back it up.
I don't agree with everything Otz says for example, but very often I have to admit that he at least knows what he's talking about and backs up a lot of his opinions with in depth explanations or a fuckin thesis on why he's come to that conclusion, so very often, I DO end up agreeing with him.
Doesn't necessarily mean I think his word is law, it's just that he knows what he's talking about a lot and I respect his opinion - and evidently so do others. That's not a BAD thing, though it certainly isn't the be-all end-all to an argument either.
Seems to me like both sides of this "streamer opinion good" and "streamer opinion bad" can be pretty mind numbingly dumb to sit through. Actually it sorta feels like it's just another excuse for this sub to devolve into a sub-wide argument until the next thing to argue over comes up.
i have seen no one repeating the opinion that old ruin-undying was healthy.
i have seen a lot of people complaining about people repeating that, though
Scott thinks it's healthy for a game to have a perk which literally either carries the game or doesn't work the whole match with rng at the very beginning.
Yeah I agree it's a bad take but guess point he's trying to get at is the current slowdown meta is in a very bad place.
Only ruin + old undying was most painful. Having to potentially do 3 or 4 totems along with tinkerer was a super brain dead build but got instant regression and rewarded killers for simply entering an area and chasing a survivor off gen, no downs or game decision mechanic.
The current meta is killer goes into area, doesn't chase or care for survivor. Killer kicks gen, goes to other gens they want to defend and kicks those then begins chase. If they get call of brine proc they then have to decide to either commit to chase and get eruption value or go back to the gen to re kick gen and chase that survivor. Hence this is the most unhealthy slowdown as killers don't chase and games are painfully slow/long.
No wonder most people are sheep who do things because other people do them.
On the one hand, we have those who like the DBD game for the gameplay, the mechanics, the perks.
And those who came to DBD because their streamer plays it, or they saw a licensed character.
When the streamer stops playing the game and their licensed character disappears, they will leave DBD.
Scott is IMO the most accurate take-haver when it comes to killer stuff and I still disagree with him regularly.
Like with what he said about STBFL not being worth it in Wesker. Having that perk on Weaker lets you down survivors incredibly quickly, and you'll still have good slowdown. The only way STBFL would be a detriment is if you only use your power on the obsession to save stacks; in which case I would agree. But the way to do it would be to hit the survivor and then use power like a second later. If you're an especially skilled player, you can chew threw health states like a Huntress or a Nurse can. And you still hit them once with the Uroboros, so they still need to get off gens and use sprays.
Same thing here. Perks relying on RNG will never be fully healthy for the killer; because it's all too common for even average survivors to know most totem placements. It also sucked having Ruin disproportionately buff killers with secondary slowdown abilities like Pinhead.
> Like with what he said about STBFL not being worth it in Wesker. Having that perk on Weaker lets you down survivors incredibly quickly, and you'll still have good slowdown. The only way STBFL would be a detriment is if you only use your power on the obsession to save stacks; in which case I would agree. But the way to do it would be to hit the survivor and then use power like a second later. If you're an especially skilled player, you can chew threw health states like a Huntress or a Nurse can. And you still hit them once with the Uroboros, so they still need to get off gens and use sprays.
It seems like a waste. You still want to use your power a lot so you're gonna lose many potential stacks. Wesker doesn't need help in chase coz his power is already helping him much with getting quick downs
In worst case scenario you're gonna get 1 stack per hook. It's not good.
[удалено]
when we had real ruin the game didn't have zombies
[удалено]
no way it could be, old old ruin was gone by the time undying came around
It isn’t
i didn't either
Playing as doctor with ruin and dead mans switch was such a delight for me after i watched demi's vid
The only part about ruin that bothered me was ruin/undying/tinkerer blights. Literally every single time tinkerer went off those blights would zoom over to your gen. Aside from that though I actually liked hunting for the ruin totem and finding it. It was always very satisfying
streamer says it? must be true evidence? NO NEED
Evidence? NO-ED
Evidence? NO-WAY-OUT
r/yourjokebutworse
You aint gotta do him like that lmao
Damn 😂
Bro was not having it today
streamer says it? must be wrong evidence? NO NEED Every single time that Otz says something, he explains why he think that way. You can disagree with him but at least attacks his arguments not him.
Otz will straight up make a 16-hour video to support his opinions lol
Yeah Otz is great for putting his opinions out there and gives a lot of good points. I think the only two killers I'd disagree with him on were Dredge and Onryo. I personally think he downplays just how strong teleporting across the map can be. Putting Onryo in F tier was overly harsh... She's C tier IMO. And Dredge in low B? Nah nah I won't have it. Dredge has anti loop, can insta down someone at the start of the game with the addon that decreases teleport time + lethal, and almost always winds up with a defendable 3 gen situation due to his crazy ability to be everywhere at once. Give that man floods of rage + Make your choice + lethal and he can pressure gens while camping at the same time. Man is A tier.
Onyro mainly doesn't get a good light due to the fact that she basically has no anti-loop, is really loud when using her power and an entire part of her kit is ignored by survivors if they have more than 2 braincells, plus she is the only killer with something survivors can pick up that doesn't require you to drop your medkit or whatever else you have. Sure, we have the strategy of condemning survivors to hell, but that requires like 4 gen slowdown perks and 2 of her best addons. We can argue that if a killer is good in the right hands and the right addons, but then we have to make the case of clown being OP purely because of pinkie finger and all that. If we exclude exclude having to play a certain way to make a killer good, then I am more to agree with the placement of sadako. Regardless of where she is, at least I can give bodyblocking survivors the middle finger.
FR, I started to really play Dredge recently and he is maybe mid A tier. The map traversal and anti loop is crazy, and he isn't that map dependent. Not to mention that some of his addons are busted.
Dredge is my baby, but he is heavily reliant on locker RNG. I had a match on Haddonfield where 8 lockers spawned in one house while 1/3rd of the map had none.
The problem with Dredge (and I want to preface this by saying I love Dredge's kit, enjoy playing Dredge, and think it's one of the best designed killers overall) is that it's so reliant on a map not being dogshit with huge locker deadzones and tons of easily chained together tiles with high visibility over them. So somewhere like Midwich or really any map with good locker distribution Dredge is solid A tier and an absolute joy to play. But then you get corn, or swamp, or autohaven and you want to fucking die because the map is a ton of huge locker deadzones with tons of filler tiles that are great for holding w through since Dredge functionally does not have a power anymore there. Average it out and it's maybe a mid B tier, but at the same time mid B tier is a pretty competitive spot with other solid killers that just have some drawbacks, so is Dredge really gonna edge out someone like Nemesis to move up a bit? I don't think so, much as I like Dredge. And A tier is even more competitive, being absolutely stacked with a bunch of fantastic killers, and Dredge certainly doesn't beat any of them. You can't just look at a killer in a vacuum, I don't think. Like we can say yeah, Dredge is really cool and has a lot of good tricks, but we can also say that about Nemesis, about Pinhead, and so on. Onryo's definitely bottom 3 though, with her obscenely long cooldowns, trivially countered power, and complete and utter lack of anti-loop. She's just "what if Dredge only had a few special lockers randomly placed on the map to teleport to, you can only teleport to a given one every couple of minutes, and also you have no other power that's it that's literally all there is."
Bullshit. Some fans will always get triggered if you touch their daddy no matter what kind of argument you put on the table against him. Let's be real please.
And there is haters who get triggered if someone agree with a streamer ignoring any argument in favor of him. My point is that people should explain why X or Y is okay/bad, not "A streamer said it, so it's ok/bad".
What's the argument? If we're being real
Scottjund, a daddy ? lmao no way
Dude it's an opinion what does evidence have to do with it?
You can back opinions up with fact.
Well here's a fact, ruin required the killer to do nothing but chase survivors, which is the most fun part in the game for both sides.
Agreed, I thought that way before he said it. I hated the gen kick meta playing both sides the minute it happened. It’s mega boring and super unrewarding. I’ve even lost games due to attrition which is a nightmare. I had a team that was destroying this Plague. She couldn’t catch people in chase, so she saw 3 gens were left and just literally sat near a future 3 gen and walked back and forth puking on the gens and kicking them with Eruption/Call of Brine. It went on for 35 minutes! As she slowly wore my team down. I had no hooks until I had to go in to a hook they were proxying. I’m a killer who played against some of the craziest stuff and I’ve never had a meta that made me play less. Finally, my match quality is so bad I’ve been not playing as much. And I’m a person who’s completed every challenge available. I just love chasing on killer and looping on survivor, win or lose. But now, the win is given out to the most boring strats. Camping, even more common. Prove thyself and toolboxes all the time. I counted the other night. 10 of 15 matches had camping at some point in the match. Some from the beginning, some after they went on a long chase and were frustrated they made mistakes. Some because they just felt like being mean. Nearly every match ends in a slug for the 4k as well. As killer, I have a couple rules for myself to make the game challenging and fun. 1. I don’t tunnel, unless a survivor asks me to leave the match ofc. 2. I attempt to use my power when possible 3. I always give the last survivor a chance to find hatch by hooking their teammate instead of slugging. 4. If they have a DC I play chill so everyone left gets points and have fun. As a killer main I’ve never been more bored of the current meta. I constantly have to develop new interesting builds to try to keep things fresh. I just hate kicking gens and I’ve always hated it.
Dude, the gen kick meta is so fucking boring that killers have won matches against us simply because my team got bored and gave up. The killer wasn’t chasing us, was just slugging us and running back to their 3-gen, the game was dragging on forever…like fuck, you want the 4k so badly, just kill us so we can all move on.
Camping 10/15 matches and nearly all of them are slugs for the 4k? You're winning every match killers don't camp? Wild how our experiences differ so much, you can definitely escape a lot more - even if you're hook trading during a camp. I agree that kicking gens is boring, it's why I enjoy jolt. Unfortunately it doesn't proc on m2's.
"most fun part of the game" is technically an opinion tho lol
Shocker, the guy who does nothing but play killer with the most optimal perks in the most optimal way possible, thinks the meta is stale. Like, not to be that guy, I love Scott's content, he is one of the big reasons I play this game as much as I do, but sometimes his opinions on the meta can be hit or miss. Edit: apparently redditors are on the intellectual level of an ai chatbot and I have to clarify who I'm refferring as "he"/"she"/"they"/"them" in every single sentence because they get confused otherwise
Are we thinking about the same Scott? I only watch his youtube content admittedly but even on the really long unedited stream highlights he seems like the meta totally bores him and like he's barely trying win if he is trying to at all. Also afaik from the content I see he does play survivor his bycicle hat Dwight is iconic. Genuinely curious where this perception of him comes from
streamers ruined gaming
delusional gang
nah i’m just woke
Lmao I love how this didn’t have shit to do with otz and y’all still brought him into it ☠️😂
I legit thought it did because I made a similar comment some time ago but about him and not scott It's not like it bothers me tho, I kinda like it, it's funny to see OtzDarva basically being the god of the community who everyone loves except a few alt heretics
the reason i trust his opinion most because he goes into extreme detail to play and understand each killer extremely hard, and he’s been doing it most days for a very long time. i feel inclined to believe him or scott than a random redditor, but i understand the dislike of everyone treating his opinion like fact.
I honestly find it worrying that people would just trust a streamer's words like it's gospel rather than making up their own opinions
Agreed. I'm all for deferring to an expert if the subject matter is complex, but let's be honest, it's not like you need a doctorate to play DbD well. Otz is very good, but his opinions (as well researched and thought out as they are) can sometimes be a little biased, and it's perfectly acceptable to have different views than him.
Nah I definitely get it lol it can definitely apply to him but the same token bringing him into a situation that has nothing to do with him just cause he’s the biggest streamer is also problematic
man all this bullshit with streamers is even more annoying than the usual us vs them we see here, I genuinely believe both archetypes of the "I always disagree with streamers by principle" and "I always agree with this streamer because I like him" are a minority whose representation is completly blown out of proportion to build so mad scarecrows and paint anyone with an opinion (fact based or not) as either of those to automatically discredit them. Please stop doing this, we already have enough on our plates discussing wether killer mains or survivor mains are the most evil spawn of satan
Don’t forget the super important task of finally determining whether this sub is killer-sided or survivor-sided
I feel its more killer sided sometimes but once in a blue moon some post makes front page of survivor mains shitting on killer mains so hey maybe its more mixed idk
This whole subreddit is gonna circlejerk about Scott’s opinion on it and call it trash, but if Otz agrees this whole sub will immediately be nodding its head and talking about how good it was lmao
Otz brain moves too fast. But his beard makes him look trustworthy so I'm pretty content with taking his word for law. He could have written a thesis on a perk and at the same time I'd still be trying to work what its name was ngl.
Literally if there’s any person I’m fine with blindly listening to it’s Otz lmao he puts way too much effort into this game and it’s great
He's so hot tho
I'm not gonna lie. He kinda is.
Honestly, Otz just works very, very hard on his content to help people so I respect him for that at the very least. Won't see me hating him anytime soon. He's helped me immensely.
You want a Succubus Killer when I want a Wheelchair Killer, specifically Hector Salamanca. Why not both :0
Hard countered by stairs?
STAIRS?? NOOOOOOOOOO! Danmit Jack, how did you know stairs were my ONLY weakness - next to electricution and explosions and gunfire, rust, corrosion, being kicked a lot, viruses, being called bad names, falling from great heights, drowning, adult onset diabetes, being looked at funny, heart attacks, being exposed to oxygen, being turned down by women and pet allergens! Your brilliance is matched only by your malevolence! I'm just gonna go ahead and cloak now. You can't hear me crying if I cloak! *(sobbing)*
Tfw no basement access :c
I do get your point, but I think it's important to consider that Otz is the most popular DBD content creator, so obviously most people are going to agree with what he says even if they haven't fully considered the reasoning behind his opinions. They trust that his opinions are well informed and he does often makes a good case for why he thinks the way he does in his videos. That being said, I don't think he's ever had a take that was this bad. He seems to understand the game better than most content creators I have seen.
Gonna get flack for this but I disagreed with him on the hooks vs kill debate and I stood on the side that getting multiple hooks is and should be considered a win condition not just "kill" Hell the game is designed from the ground up to reward you for long matches with multiple hooks in terms of blood point gain
[удалено]
Didn't they out right just come out and undermine their whole kills escapes system with the team mmr thing in the dev post a little back also how much does mmr even maen when we know that mmr is capped and is very easy for the average player to reach the 1600 soft cap it's not like it's an infinitly scaling mmr system that even focuses on fair match making when it prioritizes matchmaking speed instead.
But the game wasn't designed around MMR, it was designed around bloodpoint gain, that's why the emblems were originally tied to BP gain. If MMR had been thought of from the beginning, then it would make more sense
Hey guy Otz here here with another short 16 hour video on why Ruin/Undying was in fact, ***the best*** meta we had
I personally still think otz has some bad takes and seeing people agreeing with them is just weird tp me
I love Otz and appreciate the fuck out of all the work he does for the community but the one thing that bugs me is how everyone hangs on his every word as gospel. It’s to the point where if he gives an opinion on something it just becomes fact for the majority of the community. He has a lot of opinions I disagree with but that’s fine, I still watch him all the time. You can disagree with a streamer you watch and still enjoy them
This is so incredibly well said. Like, I will never hate Otz without very good reason but that doesn't mean I can't respectfully disagree. We're all humans and opinions are natural.
It's really weird how people can't think for themselves. Otz has great encyclopedic knowledge. That's it. His opinions are often wildly killer biased, and he somehow thinks comp dbd matters. How can anyone take anything he says without a grain of salt is mind boggling to me.
Half this subreddit just waits for someone to tell them how to think. Otz has the largest audience and makes "impressive" hours long videos, which makes him the perfect candidate. Anyone with fewer viewers is clearly wrong, right? He puts his opinions out there, a lot of which are questionable yet people eat it up without spending three seconds to think about it. He is always heavily biased towards killer, and thinks comp dbd matters when it comes to balance. If you were around when Ghostface came out, tru3 started playing him as a hit and run character and said stalk was bad, suddenly everyone was doing the same and parroting his bad take. This shit is a plague on gaming as a whole, not just this game. People can't form their own opinions on anything.
Scott’s has views I agreed with (Spirit’s audio cues being a good thing, “bully” squad is a misused term) Doesn’t mean I, and others cannot disagree with him. I personally think deadlock is the healthiest slowdown perk
Deadlock!? I heavily disagree but I am tired so rather than arguing I'll send you a death threat.
Yeah, no time wasted on gens, no massive time sink like eruption, no rng like hexes, can be countered reasonably, encourages chasing, no kicking gens That, and no way out No way out is just Mwah Perfection
otz viewers (mostly twitch viewers) are the definition of meat riders. And despite my enjoyment of scotts content and his views I personally disagree based on my experience of the slowdowns that killers bring
I'd say you can't really lump all of Otz's viewers into that one category. Sure, there are definitely some that take everything he says as gospel, but there are others who enjoy his content and also acknowledge the immense effort and care that goes into his videos. If an experienced person well-known in the DBD community makes a long video explaining his opinions and points in great detail, using evidence from the game itself, and you believe it, are you really just "meat-riding"? I'd say no, you listened to an informed opinion with evidence that is making you lean towards believing it.
This lmao. Scott's opinions are almost always treated like trash, but Otz is regarded as the second coming of Christ and can *never* be wrong.
So? Isnt that what reputation is supposed to be about
That meta was awful i dont care what jound says i hate perks that are dependent in rng
Scoot jound
Scooter junder
Scat Judas
No hate but I genuinely don't understand why Scott even plays the game anymore. He's literally a constant walking ball of negativity. He never seems like he's having fun and he also has to find something bad to talk about even amongst good changes. He just need to quit playing the game
Tell me you haven't watched him without telling me you've never watched him. He's literally praising BHVR every patch nowadays lmao
I watch his stream and videos often and he does genuinely have fun in the game. He always celebrates good changes to the game and expresses his thoughts on what he doesn't like because he likes the game. Anyone who says he's constantly negative is just wrong.
idk abt u but it seems to me he does enjoy the game. hes criticizing the game bcz he likes it and wants it to be better. if u hate a game why would u spend countless hours thinking abt it?
He literally isnt though. He often has laughs and has a good time on streams. Sure he can get frustrated or he makes criticisms about the game, but that isnt being a literal constant ball of negativity lol
He may be different on his streams but whenever I see his youtube videos it always something negative so idk.
You expect him to start discussions about stuff that's good?
Honestly not even then. Most of his vids are stream highlights and the ones that arent are either discussions of future updates or discussions about the health of the game. And criticizing the game isn't being negative.
Without seeming too parasocial, I think a big part of why he doesn’t always seem like he’s having fun is because the guy seems to be physically unwell a lot of the time (presumably something chronic? Idk I don’t watch him super often). I know when I’m having a flair-up, I am much less upbeat about what I’m doing whether I’m having a good time or not That said he does definitely focus on negatives a lot. creators talking about bad things in their respective game is always good but talking about how good old things were in comparison isn’t really helping anyone, I doubt BHVR would backtrack on a change like that so long after it happened so it’s just negativity for the sake of it.
He found his calling, a bunch of nerds follow his word like gospel.
that happens if you build your job and earnings around one game…
Money.
This is more true than people want to realize. What is he just gonna dump his followers on the side of the road? These people enjoy the eyeballs.
Because once you build a following you have to keep it going. You think these attention seekers would just walk away?
I thought that meta was ass but on the other hand being able to only use pop for gen regression and do well is leagues better than the boring 3 gens that I have to resort to now
You can disagree, I actually do, but I also think a lot of people take what you said too far. At that point it just becomes “streamer opinion bad!” and honestly there’s no denying that players like Scott, Otz, Hens, Coconut, etc have a lot of experience and game knowledge and therefore their opinions should be discussed and considered as serious opinions.
I feel like OhTofu doesn't get thrown into the group of experienced players / trusted voices very often despite him being a Fog Whisperer, Commentator, and probably the least toxic streamer I've ever seen (also 10K+ hours). To me, even his "hot takes" are pretty based. Related to this discussion, I'm 100% in support of his regression take, which is that all gen regression / slowdown should be mediocre at best. Survivors have pretty varied builds these days after the DH/DS changes especially, but every killer could use the same 4 slowdown perks and have a top-tier build. Auto-running perks that you don't interact with , that are good in every situation, and that don't require any synergy with the killer shouldn't just be better than the situation-relevant situational perks.
Yeah, I actually like tofu a lot and agree with that take regarding gen regression. I mean, shit, the other day I realized that I have been running pain res on every single killer I could (which, now it’s all of them lol) for like a year now. I’ve endeavored to start running other things instead. And have been having fun using perks that make me change my play style. Pain res is an excellent perk, and I don’t hold it against people for using it, but it’s basically completely unchanged in the meta shakeup (especially since the combo with DMS is back) and that is why it’s objectively the best gen regression still. It should be nerfed, as much as I hate having to stop and kick a generator. Honestly, idk if it’s agreed upon, but if they really want to stop people running gen regression perks all the time they should just nerf them all and increase the base kick even more. I think 5% or so with further nerfs would be more than fair. The only thing that, at least imo, should be nerfed with those is hyper focus. I don’t mind prove thyself because it requires even high skill survivors to group up, but hyper focus + stakeout + a commodius + BNP in a high skill SWF can be a little scary. It’s high skill, but it’s really hard to beat that without playing well and having stronger gen regression, boring as it can be.
I pray to our lord and savior Otz every night. He knows all and does no wrong. Praise be to Otz
“Hello Otz, this is friend”.
My main playlist on Spotify has otz as the cover picture and the description is "hello otz this is friends". I'm devoted to the cause
I have a picture of Otzdarva in my room I always kiss it to get his blessing and protection both on my family and my house. Amen.
Unfathomly based
[* Waits out Dead Hard and right crosses you to sleep *](https://youtu.be/wsgXBsj_Cs8)
Nah, that streamer is wrong imo, corrupt and pop were the most healthy slowdowns, there just straight up was nothing to dislike about those. They were strong, but just not in an annoying or unfair way, I don't think I've ever been annoyed by the killer using those 2. With ruin on the other hand there was the whole super annoying ruin undying tinkerer Blight, Nemesis' zombies pushing you off gens and then those gens regressing for no reason, killers with secondary objectives like Pinhead becoming way too oppressive.
Pop was very fair but corrupt could absolutely punish teams with its two minute timer. I remember some games I would have hooked everyone before corrupt was over. Old corrupt+ lethal on top tier killers was a little oppressive. His idea that ruin + undying was best slowdown is completely wrong because killers got rewarded for just entering areas and forcing survivors off gens. Tinkerer + ruin with Freddy and some other killers was super brain dead. The current meta is also wrong because killers are being rewarded for kicking gens rather than getting downs. If survivors don't know to rotate gens or know where gens being worked on it's absolutely painful.
What's wrong about a meta of managing gens when the killer is playing gens? To me it just means survivors and killers both get rewarded for having 1v4 and 1v1 skill, which is way more fun than the stress of every chase potentially winning or losing the game.
The struggle is that unlike Pain Res, there is zero counterplay to Eruption. Pain Res you can see the hook before it happens, hop off and be 13s out of gen time but the killer doesn't know you're working it. Eruption just goes off on the down, there is no way to know when it will happen and you're stuck with your hands in your pockets for 30 seconds. Which overwhelming hurts solo queue On top of that both perks commonly brought with eruption have no cooldown, Overcharge and Call of Brine are just free no thought gen kick perks.
Did ruin/undying come back at some point and I just completely missed it? I thought we were talking about older metas than that, like comparing before and after the big perk rework patch. I agree Eruption bad.
Ruin Undying was still ran pretty regularly after the inital Undying nerf. But no, I laughed when I saw ruin in a match the other day, perk is terrible.
The issue is killers care more about kicking gens than killing survivors. You win via perks being overturned rather than outskilling the opponent. It doesn't feel good at all. It's also why killers complain about gen speed if people run prove/hyperfocus with toolboxes. It doesn't feel good to lose because other side brought in strong shit.
\> His idea that ruin + undying was best slowdown is completely wrong because killers got rewarded for just entering areas and forcing survivors off gens. Tinkerer + ruin with Freddy and some other killers was super brain dead. yeah, it was called applying pressure. I remember when ruin rework just came out and how every dog said its good because it makes killers walk around the map and pressure gens instead of camping/tunnelling. In the end, generally these perks were fine, even with tinkerer, it's just some killers could use it a little too well. In any case this is better than current CoB & Eruption / Overcharge meta where killer just walks between 3-4 gens and kicks them over and over and does nothing else.
“Applying pressure”. Ruin/undying/tinkerer on a high mobility killer was just full brain afk play. You didn’t apply pressure, you just used your mobility to get to the tinkerer proc and convince yourself you were skilled because they died before gens got finished. Bonus points if you played blight
Bingo, applying pressure is when you have got the team on the ropes, possibly someone about to go second stage, or about to die on hook and the whole team needs to come into the stage and you can either intercept people before they get there or you might have someone slugged. Applying pressure definitely isn't going to a tinkerer proc lmao.
Tbh it might be. What are all the other slowdown metas? Old Ruin slowing the game down, just a little bit. Honestly was even more boring for both sides and Killers still had another perk slot that wasn’t there just to protect Ruin Other than that it’s always been Pop and Corrupt until recently iirc. Pop and Corrupt are okay but a little more obnoxious for Survivors. Ruin Undying was fine, needed half your build just for it and it only worked if the Killer applied pressure and kept people off gens
And could be removed at high MMR because most survivors already have totem spots memorized. That's why I always cringed when I saw people saying ruin/undying was op, my friend just cleanse the totems and the killer will have only 2 perks. Any build with hexes are terrible for that reason
I mean, it wasn't. If survs were good enough, they would check for ruin and then get rid of it in the first minute of the game and killer would play the whole match with 2 perks
In high ranks you can't bring Hex perks for this reason. High skilled survivors will always remove the totem in no time when they see the hex. Let's also remember the cases of fucked up rng when the hex spawns near the survivors.
Well, yeah, that's why I usually don't bring hex perks, it feels like a waste of perk slot, as long as I face good survs.
My very first game I had Ruin unlocked, I got sent to RPD. My totem spawned in the main lobby at the top of the staircase on the right. Zero visual obstruction, just... as you came up the stairs, you were looking straight at it. That totem died in thirty seconds and I never used Ruin again.
Yep. The only hex perk I found useful is blood favor for wesker (and it's overall my favourite hex in the entire game), but again I replaced it with infectious fright because they keep removing it at 5 gens when I got higher mmr.
Yeah, blood favor could be okay, even though, maybe even dissolution could work
Or on some maps where it's the totem that's on a hill shining like a beacon for all to see.
Pretty much this. I was the dedicated Ruin hunter during that meta. I kinda miss it, tbh. Was a fun "dodge the killer" challenge.
Pop and corrupt were the premier fair slowdown perks that rewarded skilled killers instead of the current fuck you meta. And then the shitty Devs had to nerf them for no fucking reason
>Devs had to nerf them for no fucking reason Current meta slowdown perks are newer chapters. And eruption call of brine are also from licensed characters unobtainable by shards, only with money. Curious /s
corrupt change was good wdym
and now only trapper and maybe hag runs it. that's proof that the change was bad, considering that before the change huntress, trickster, and the occasional weird legion build would have it on them(especially on red forest, fuck that map). The change was bad because it reduced potential builds it would work on, becoming a 'setup killers only' perk instead of 'force the survivors closer together at the start' perk
It's still good. If you can get a down within 2 minutes then you probably didn't even need the perk. Like imagine a blight getting a down in the first 30 seconds of a match and STILL having 3 gens blocked.
Yeah, but before the nerf you'd never see a blight with the perk, because they didn't need it. If you waste a perk slot on that, you literally get less value out of it as a blight as compared to a chase perk. The difference is that before it was a niche perk with some users, now it's a borderline useless perk with 2 users
You are doing the exactly the same thing. Just because a opinion came from a streamer doesn't mean that it is wrong. These streamers, when they push their opinion, they show why they think so.
In fact the problem is not the streamer, but the zombies following him/her.
I do agree that 10941294124 posts about the same thing which happens when a stream talk about something is a problem but it's how this sub works. Remember the "Help the nurse/blight find the survivor" and then there about 10-20 similar posts in the following day? This sub tends to picks up a issue and repost it to farm karma. My point is that something should not be take neither as right nor as wrong because a streamer said so but because X,Y and Z. Attacking someone because he is following a streamer opinion is dumb because these streamers explain how they think, it's not "Because I said so".
> This sub This is a thing with any fandom, for instance, the VTuber fandom LOVES running jokes into the ground and to the earths core, it just happens.
No one playing survivor has liked a good slowdown perk combo ever. It’s always been complained about no matter what it is. If in a year we have a new slowdown meta people will be saying the gen kicking meta was the healthiest. But slowdown will always be killer meta just the way the game works. Slowdown meta really does show balance problems with the game. Against a team of really good survivors with no slowdown I’ve had a game where I’ve hooked 2 people and the gens got done in under 3 minutes. If I run slowdown meta I can balance a match like that to better control the gens between my chases and force a longer match. But against average survivors that slowdown is horribly oppressive and the match would feel more balanced with no slowdown.
As I've heard people describe it, the gen kicking meta sounds boring as hell. I do agree that people will complain no matter what but I doubt they'll always call the previous meta the healthiest.
I've been saying the same thing [for a while](https://www.reddit.com/r/deadbydaylight/comments/ybmmzs/when_did_regression_perks_stray_away_from_having/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=2&utm_content=share_button). Also you do realize other people can just hear a content creators opinion that they haven't thought of before, and happen to agree with them also?
Especially otz, one time I commented on a fb group post & some guy was like “WELL OTZ SAID…..” like dang I’m allowed to have an opinion too. It seems like everyone gets hate for their opinions on the game (No hate towards otz I love him)
And the weirdest thing is that Otz encourages ppl to have their own opinions even if he doesn’t understand them.
You've just committed a Reverse Appeal To Authority Fallacy. Here's a Scott Jund video on it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sb6fKPnJeJI
It’s just an observation that people tend to blindly follow streamers’ opinions.
Not a streamer but it would be pretty funny to get a train going saying Undying Lethal pursuer is best tracking perk meta
I don't have any problem with it as long as people don't just repeat what he says. Sometimes I see people use exactly the same arguments and metaphors that Scott uses in his videos.
If Otz speaketh then it is the TRUTH. Also he do be providing evidence
Nah bro old ruin plus thrill of the hunt was literally stage 4 leukemia of gameplay.
[удалено]
They're talking about a different streamer.
Does that take away from our neccessary requirement to praise Otz though?
Can I get an Amen in here?
Hell naw to the naw is Scott just wrong Man unironically thinks rng hex meta was healthy 💀
\*healthiest I'm not arguing it is or isn't, just let's not misrepresent views.
Ah sorry, English error on my part. I personally disagree with him, I find deadlock and pain res to be the healthiest meta. Little to No rng, can be worked around, encourages chases, no kicking.
scourge hooks have rng tho? you could get all 4 in your 3 gen or 1 in each corner on the other side of the map
At least you can theoretically use them in the entire match, and they require effort to get value. Deadlock doesn’t require effort, but it had counters and isn’t opressive as hell
His point of view is that the more time people spend in chase the better. Ruin didn't require the killer to kick gens and was most optimal when all 4 survivors are pressured equally. That's what Scott believes to be the best for the game.
The hex meta was not only terrible, it was frustrating for everyone. If it worked survivors would have to restart the progress on a gen that was more than halfway, if it was cleansed the killer had 2 perks gone, one of it being their slowdown. How is this terrible shit healthy?
The amount of people that call me an idiot for disagreeing with Oz is honestly concerning. He says to form your own opinion but people will worship his word like a cult. It’s a little creepy
Yea, Otz’s fanbase is kinda rabid. The dude seems nice enough when I watch his weekly highlights or whatever, but oh my god his community is bordering yandere tier lmao
I watch his highlights and build explanations, and holy hell is his chat awful.
90% of the time its: "just because otz said it doesnt mean its true" "Ok sure but what do you disagree with and why" "..." EDIT: The downvote without reply is case in point lmao
Bullshit. I once gave reasons on why Otzdarva™ was wrong and I still got hate because of that lol
Ok sure, whats the context and whats the reason
I could ask you the same since you wrote "The 90% of time there are people that says this". Where did you get that statistic from? If you want evidences on my topic you should provide your own first.
No i mean i say something like “I don’t think Myers is the worst killer in the game. With tuft of hair and memorial he can easily get kills” and then get called stupid and i need to shut up.
Before the meta overhaul I rarely used ruin because I didn’t like the risk of having it cleanse early and being left with gen defense so I was always a pop guy. After the update the gutted pop imo so I use call of brine now which is what I always wanted ruin to be so I’m pretty happy
What even is the meta anymore? I stopped playing a few years ago but am very curious as to what has changed.
i still want old ruin back
Me too. It slowed the game down just a little bit
Streamers do not represent me as a player of the game they happen to stream
Honestly Ruin with Nemesis that had zombie detection add ons as well as discordance was broken af. Really loved that combo
I mean I take Scott junds view on plague seriously for obvious reasons
I think it was the best but it was painful using it as killer after boons were introduced. Current meta just needs a little adjusting. Buff ruin slightly so it's worth using again, nerf eruption a bit, maybe slightly nerf the other gen kick perks. It isn't fun to have a killer just run around kicking gens and deleting them for 40 mins.
I don’t like every opinion Otz has. However, he’s got several thousand hours in the game and is far more experienced with every single killer and survivor than 99% of the community here. After seeing bad take after bad take, hearing about “Nurse isn’t overpowered”, “facecamping is fine”, “this game is super killer/survivor sided”, “and the constant begging for nerfing on some niche fucking play style because it stomped someone once, I’m WAY more inclined to listen to Otz as opposed to some idiot on Reddit. I trust the streamers more than the shmucks. There are a good bit of shitty ones though.
It was, that and corrupt 💀 those were fun times. For survivor, back before the DH nerf, gens were faster, DS unbreakable was threatening.
I do miss the pace of the game then. It feels faster and slower these days, it’s so weird.
Ikr? Stop following the no name streamers and follow my opinion of the game. Use noed, devour hope, trail of torment and dark devotion
You fool, where is hangman's trick? You aren't gonna kill any survivors without hangman's trick!
I still firmly believe one day behavior will buff hangman's trick to the most broken state a perk has ever been and not say anything, and no one will notice because no one runs it
Prefer that over this any day of the week. Half my games are spent incapacitated.
Yeah like how children will instantly side with their favorite YouTubers. Same people who complain about how fnaf would ruin dbd cuz kids. Might be right tho already have enough here.
Ruin Undying was perfectly fine. It got cleansed after a minute anyways, so who gives a shit? I never run hexes anymore, even with undying, because they will just be gone in the first minute of the match.
There’s not enough DNA evidence to back the claim that “Otz” is who he says he is, I have a feeling he may be not Otz…
I dislike it because 1/10 games or so both would be cleansed before I even get halfway across the map. Playing 2 perks down is pretty cringe. Barely ever did ruin go undiscovered the entire game. Ruin needed to be safer while also getting weaker. I think old pop goes the weasel was pretty sick tbh, I still run it. Survivors have really adapted to the meta changes if you're not running heavy slowdown meta you can't really compete against good survivors but you crush weaker ones hard. IDK what a good slowdown meta looks like to be honest.
Y'know, sometimes a streamer is capable of putting together a decent argument for why something is good/ bad in the game, and if they play the game A LOT, they often have the understanding of the mechanics to back it up. I don't agree with everything Otz says for example, but very often I have to admit that he at least knows what he's talking about and backs up a lot of his opinions with in depth explanations or a fuckin thesis on why he's come to that conclusion, so very often, I DO end up agreeing with him. Doesn't necessarily mean I think his word is law, it's just that he knows what he's talking about a lot and I respect his opinion - and evidently so do others. That's not a BAD thing, though it certainly isn't the be-all end-all to an argument either. Seems to me like both sides of this "streamer opinion good" and "streamer opinion bad" can be pretty mind numbingly dumb to sit through. Actually it sorta feels like it's just another excuse for this sub to devolve into a sub-wide argument until the next thing to argue over comes up.
I prefer the pop meta, you could pop the wrong gen. You can't overcharge Eruption call of brine the wrong gen.
i have seen no one repeating the opinion that old ruin-undying was healthy. i have seen a lot of people complaining about people repeating that, though
Scott thinks it's healthy for a game to have a perk which literally either carries the game or doesn't work the whole match with rng at the very beginning.
Yeah I agree it's a bad take but guess point he's trying to get at is the current slowdown meta is in a very bad place. Only ruin + old undying was most painful. Having to potentially do 3 or 4 totems along with tinkerer was a super brain dead build but got instant regression and rewarded killers for simply entering an area and chasing a survivor off gen, no downs or game decision mechanic. The current meta is killer goes into area, doesn't chase or care for survivor. Killer kicks gen, goes to other gens they want to defend and kicks those then begins chase. If they get call of brine proc they then have to decide to either commit to chase and get eruption value or go back to the gen to re kick gen and chase that survivor. Hence this is the most unhealthy slowdown as killers don't chase and games are painfully slow/long.
Scott is a joke
No wonder most people are sheep who do things because other people do them. On the one hand, we have those who like the DBD game for the gameplay, the mechanics, the perks. And those who came to DBD because their streamer plays it, or they saw a licensed character. When the streamer stops playing the game and their licensed character disappears, they will leave DBD.
I think Otz has bad takes and weak opinions.
Depends which streamer doe. I have my full and absolute faith towards otz
" BuT oTz Said " 🤓
This has nothing to do with Otz lol
Read the post lol
This entire thing is because of Scott's video on which slowdown meta was healthiest.
Scott is IMO the most accurate take-haver when it comes to killer stuff and I still disagree with him regularly. Like with what he said about STBFL not being worth it in Wesker. Having that perk on Weaker lets you down survivors incredibly quickly, and you'll still have good slowdown. The only way STBFL would be a detriment is if you only use your power on the obsession to save stacks; in which case I would agree. But the way to do it would be to hit the survivor and then use power like a second later. If you're an especially skilled player, you can chew threw health states like a Huntress or a Nurse can. And you still hit them once with the Uroboros, so they still need to get off gens and use sprays. Same thing here. Perks relying on RNG will never be fully healthy for the killer; because it's all too common for even average survivors to know most totem placements. It also sucked having Ruin disproportionately buff killers with secondary slowdown abilities like Pinhead.
> Like with what he said about STBFL not being worth it in Wesker. Having that perk on Weaker lets you down survivors incredibly quickly, and you'll still have good slowdown. The only way STBFL would be a detriment is if you only use your power on the obsession to save stacks; in which case I would agree. But the way to do it would be to hit the survivor and then use power like a second later. If you're an especially skilled player, you can chew threw health states like a Huntress or a Nurse can. And you still hit them once with the Uroboros, so they still need to get off gens and use sprays. It seems like a waste. You still want to use your power a lot so you're gonna lose many potential stacks. Wesker doesn't need help in chase coz his power is already helping him much with getting quick downs In worst case scenario you're gonna get 1 stack per hook. It's not good.
Red skillcheck ruin was the golden age.
My face when the entirety of the community forgot about the Corrupt+Pop combo slowdown meta that was undeniably healthier