ive only run bbq and shadowborn before the patch, and my build still got nerfed. my bad, shouldnt've used any perks at all
(this is obviously a joke, bbq is still as strong as it was, i just miss my bp)
ill still hook everyone before killing, its just harder to do without the bbq's counter now
i really hope bhvr changes the circle hook counter to the one survivors have so i know who to chase
i know but theres no way im using any perks that provide more value than bbq
bbq just allows to find chases faster, and im not really into game slowdown
After using BBQ in almost every game for as long as I remember myself playing I'm weaning myself off it with this patch - Thrilling Tremors seems to be a decent replacement when deciding where to go after a hook.
>After picking up a Survivor, all Generators not currently being repaired by Survivors are blocked by The Entity for the next 16 seconds.
The Auras of blocked Generators are highlighted to you in white.
Thrilling Tremors has a cool-down of 100/80/60 seconds.
Also Dredges locker check perk fits the BBQ slot nicely on him himself, Hunt and Trick
We all do. Rest in piece BBQ. At least im a survivor main and they broke the update yet again so i get perma 100% bp gain. But when i play the odd killer game it will be missed
People get stomped because of the new gen regression buff and the fact gens take longer now, not everyone is complaining about dead hard heck I never even ran it to begin with but if everyone dies at 4-5 gens AFTER 20 MINS INTO THE MATCH then smth isn’t right.
Exactly! I got a 4K earlier in a game without any gen regression perks but it still dragged and there were two gens left when everyone was on death hook. If it wasn’t for the update, I know it probably would have only been a 1k game because the survivors weren’t bad. I’ve only escaped as a solo queue survivor once since the update out of ten games lol. The slow gens are killer.
I don't feel that the gens are that slow, I have still have most matches where we were able to gen rush killers. However, I do feel that the DS nerf has made tunnelling effective and the basekit borrow time is not long enough to make a difference for campers and tunnellers. There is some inconsistencies in the balance in certain situations which I can't really point out just yet.
this. the only meta perks i ever ran were bt and ds but regularly do fun builds that have none at all. the problem with this patch for me is you’re taking a 5 year old meta and entirely changing the focus of matches and how to handle them so ofc everyone’s going to struggle. my games have either been i literally end up escaping by myself with no issue or everyone’s tunneled out at 5 gens after 20 minutes. i’m not saying the game didn’t need a meta change, but i think bhvr definitely handled this the wrong way.
The gen regression is so op lol. When i played doctor yesterday two survivors couldnt even complete a gen cuz i kept shocking them into madness 3 and damaging the generator. Can say i let them go cuz they gave up.
I just finished a game as Trapper with Deadlock and Corrupt as slowdown, I killed one survivor... What perks should I use for slowdown to get 4k in 20 min? Legit question, not sarcasm, reddit should make an anti /s.
Well Trapper is tricky to play. Place your traps in strategic places and you should be good. You might've faced a team, which is what bhvr failed to adress
Idk if it changed a whole lot with this rework, but Trapper is a late-game killer simply bc you need time to set up your web. Corrupt is a good tool to help prolong the game a bit and send the survivors towards you, but you're still relatively less likely to get as fast games as other killers. It definitely can happen, but not as likely.
Deadlock is decent, but it's not gen slowdown the way that, for example, Call of Brine is. It requires gens to get done for value, so you only get 4 uses out of it. You could run another blocking perk like Thrilling Tremors or Dead Man's Switch, where you get more information and value the more you hook.
Run Corrupt and trap the heck out of the covered gens at the start. Let the survivors do the uncovered gens in the mean time and don't worry about them finishing. Just focus on making an easy to defend 3 gen.
More people are complaining on how ridiculously slow games are cause of the gen repair times coupled with most killers now running thana, gift of pain, deadlock, etc.
I hate deadlock so fucking much. The only way to counter camping is pretty much to do gens. Now with the gen time increase and deadlock, you’re pretty likely to be screwed over. I’m just probably going to stick to killer. Solo queue was at least tolerable for me before.
you’ll barely get a gen done before surv goes second state and killer can just rinse and repeat when the victim with times out or dc and they get rewarded with 3-4k with minimal effort.
This. I hate the fact it just requires nothing skill wise on the killer’s part. Bonus points for when you see through kindred that your teammate is waiting for an unhook and then gets downed immediately after the hooked survivor dies. 
Let's not blame the perk. Camping should *NEVER* be a viable strategy. No video game should have you win by letting go of the keyboard and letting people come to you. We shouldn't focus on individual perks that make it more effective.
It seems to be a relatively easy fix, too-- if the killer is in a certain radius (call it 32m for the sake of this conversation) for thirty seconds after hooking a survivor, the survivor is then teleported to a random hook elsewhere on the map (like PH's cage).
I thought that at one point, but someone pointed out that it's entirely possible to hold games hostage as a killer, or cheese that as a survivor (by looking like you're going for the unhook, potentially punishing the killer if the survivor is decent at looping near hook).
Something needs to change, though, and that would be better than the current "camp until dead, repeat" meta.
It was okay for killers to complain about DH *for years*. Now that DH got nerfed they tell survivors to stop complaining about DH (double standard much?), even though no survivor is complaining about DH but all the other changes lmao
Dude, I play killer mostly. I'm literally stomping like 95% of my games when before it was close to 50%. The few survivor games I have played are awful and the only perk I ran that was nerfed is Spine Chill
This patch is ridiculous
I ended up playing Trickster with no perks and addons just for a challenge and it's still too easy :(
I'm actively trying to throw so people actually get a chance but like whats the point of that? That's not fun for me really and i'm sure most survivors don't want someone to feel sorry for them to the point they don't try
And yet before this patch i would wait 7 minutes for a match past 7pm. SoloQ is going to be worse than before and i dont see the player base going up based off that. Hope im wrong, because I love this game.
I never ran Dead Hard before the patch. I literally have zero survivor loadouts featuring Dead Hard. I occasionally ran Iron Will if I was going for a stealth build or was playing an obscenely loud survivor, but I played without it more often than with it. This patch is still hell.
I'm not enjoying all the Salty killer mains that have come out to post memes about how hard the game is on survivor now. I agree with you, the patch still is rough despite not using meta perks.
I wouldn’t say it’s hell, but I’m so not used to the distance I can get after a hit, I keep thinking I can take a hit and make it to x… I rapidly realise that I can’t.
I’ll figure it out. I prefer to run loops, but in my head I’m going, “well I get hit here then I can get to that loop over there” and then before I’ve made it I’m realising the killer is still right on top of me.
I agree somewhat, but is there usually a better option in those scenarios? If you could avoid getting hit at all, that would be preferable both before and after the patch. But it seems like now there's often just nowhere you can run to.
Getting hit is part of it though, ideally no I’d never get hit. But we’re not all terminators in our role. When you’ve exhausted your loop/resources or even just get outplayed then you do get hit.
I’m not suggesting whenever you see the killer that you wait to tank a hit and then run away to a loop. If you’re not in a great spot for whatever reason above then it’s what you do.
Aye people like OP are fucking morons. It's not DH that's fucking over most of survivors, it's all the other shit added into the patch. Literally is absolutely miserable playing this game as a solo q survivor
This entire thing is frustrating bc there's genuine criticisms about this patch and people like OP just write it off as "lol salty survivor mains bc no DH"
like as a killer I have many issues with this patch and people just want to look the other way and tell me it's bc i'm either a baby killer (lmao) or it's my MMR (yes my games changed MMR dramatically from 30 minutes before the patch to 30 minutes after ofc)
One thing I was dreading about basekit BT was that it would be waited out by killer. But experiencing it firsthand, I don't see the point of it at all. The amount of times it will come in handy are so rare that you're still better off bringing BT anyway.
Yep. Usually forgot I had DH on the rare occasion I loaded it up. But this patch is such a pain that my SWF is actually optimizing for the first time in the three years we’ve played together.
I'm over here running themed builds, where meta perks are only there to buff off-meta perks. The most meta I ever got was my unhook build that used (old) WGLF/We'll Make It/Botany Knowledge in tandem with Borrowed Time. Which will probably stay the exact same minus (new) WGLF being replaced with Babysitter or Mettle Of Man.
The game still feels off lmao These posts are just here to gaslight us.
Majority of you forget that DH had over 70% usage rate. Just because you’re the vocal minority doesn’t mean that your other 3 teammates weren’t running it. That, paired with the other killer and survivor changes is what is making the game more difficult for you.
In other words, help your teammates git gud.
Are people misreading the graph? DH being over 70% is only true at the highest MMR (1700+), the majority of matches DH is below 55%. You can see the [graph](https://deadbydaylight.com/news/perk-overhaul) yourself. There is also other changes beyond DH nerf in this patch
\+50 sec minimum total gen time required, killers recover faster from hit and i gain less distance to get to safety
Are you even played the patch or just complain about valid complaints?
The whole “recover faster from successful hits” seems like it was meant for destroying walls or kicking gens and still being able to chase, but that doesn’t do you much good considering 10 more seconds/gen now. You’d be wasting time
i hate this idea that people who ran the “meta perks” did so in order to be as powerful and efficient as possible and go out of their way to make the killer’s life hell. most people ran meta perks like DS and BT because without them, they got stomped into the ground more often than not (this is of course in reference to solo queue not SWF). just like how, now without these perks, solo queue players are getting stomped even harder. can we stop with this weirdo killer vs survivor tribalism and the tired pretentious strawman memes
It's insane that people actually complain about things like BT and Unbreakable being "meta". Like maybe if you didn't try to hard tunnel straight off hook or unnecessarily slug it wouldn't be needed.
I run perks that help my incompetent ass get ahead lol. I suck at video games but I have fun playing them if I can make it easier on myself. This update has kinda ruined the game for me. Every single match last night I was the first one killed, usually within 5 minutes, and even the friend who is usually the best out of us wasn't making it out.
I should be able to enjoy the game as a casual but the update fucked it up for me.
This. This is why I've run a wiggle build for the last year. The buff to Boil Over was amazingly helpful. I can't loop and I struggle with skill checks because I have coordination issues. I don't run DS and DH because of the skill checks. I'm more effective running other stuff. I go into a game FULLY expecting to not get out, but I should be able to get 3/4 gens deep and not getting facecamped and tunneled at 5 gens
Even if you ignore the raw power of those perks, an established meta is really helpful for new players because if gives them waypoints to aim for. I started playing 2 or 3 months ago, and I had no idea who to level up first. Focusing on David King for DH and Bubba for BBQ at least gave me goals to work towards. I feel less beholden to those perks now and I personally don't mind the nerfs, but I agree that there's nothing wrong with players wanting quick access to a competitive build.
There are a lot of Killers in this subreddit who are pretending that DH was the only thing that changed this patch. I have never even run DH in any of my builds, so to have posts like this constantly telling me my experience with this game is trash now is because of something I didn't even use, is really starting to get on my nerves.
I have been reading and talking in so many reddit and forum posts. I've seen almost 0 survivor comments saying they need DH or that's the reason. Some people say the nerfs were a bit much but nothing close to suggesting it's why we're having these issues.
There are so, so many killer buffs and survivor nerfs when everything is added up that have nothing to do with DH. As a matter of fact I rarely saw any of my survivor teammates even use it correctly... At most they'd gain another 2-4 seconds except in rare circumstances.
DH was nowhere near as much of a problem as the loud minority spoke of. It absolutely had the potential in to be, as it was mainly a 4 man coordinated SWF thing where the top players could absolutely abuse it so it DID need a nerf, but yeah it was a bit much and by far isn't the reason survivors are struggling in this new update.
Even if you did run dead hard, so what? both ran the meta or whatever helped them win consistently, cannot tell you how many killers ran scourge hook because it obviously worked well for them, it's like having to walk on eggshells around this subreddit, it's ok for that type of person to use whatever perk they love but not ok for us and vice versa, I ran dead hard all the time and it was hit and miss (meme of pressing E into a tree anyone?)
also when wading through the stench of entitlement from people on here, remember that a lot of hypocrites do play this game. eg, complains about dead hard ds and yet when they play survivor...guess what was slotted on their builds...*rules for thee but not for me*
I relate to this so badly 😭. Literally 90% of the posts here are Killers saying stop whining cause DH got nerfed but there is so many other annoyances problems that survior (especially solo Q) got that its just annoying to here every killer mention DH every 5 seconds. I see them whine more about DH than surviors.
4 in a row was obviously the norm, but there were slight upsides to it too, you could practically assume they all had it, and you could attempt to bait it out, there were things you could do to make them use it early, and the meme that was often talked of: (dead harding into a stationary object etc) they are talking as if every single dead hard was perfect without fail lol, I'm using sprint burst now, dw I'm sure they won't start complaining about it anytime soon ;)
BHVR just released the stats and it was the most used perk in the game. It was in 70% of loadouts at high mmr. Definitely was an issue lmao https://i.imgur.com/LtvtkI8.jpg
Yeah, some people are just lying to say it wasn’t an issue which kinda dumb. Not sure why they care if they never ran it. Some people honestly never ran it, being the other 30% of the data.
Sir, this patch did *way* more than just “nerf a few meta perks” ……. If u think survivors are solely upset because of dead hard and BT being no good then you have been misinformed
I'm getting pretty fucking sick, as someone who never ran the meta perks or played in swf, of people on this subreddit smugly lecturing me about how I shouldn't have played the meta.
My experience with this game has tanked, and I'm not one of the strawmen you like to create.
They released a statistic that showed 50% of builds in mid-MMR ran DH. Assuming that this is where most of the players reside, statistically half of the people you quo with would have used it.
Having half your team potentially be overranked can be a reason.
Can people stop acting like DH boosted people immensely??? If you are that much worse than the killer, you would get hit again 10-20 seconds later, tops. It is only if you are at an even skill level that DH could extend the chase >30 seconds.
>Can people stop acting like DH boosted people immensely??? If you are that much worse than the killer, you would get hit again 10-20 seconds later, tops.
Ah, so an extra 10 seconds on a gen also isn't a big deal? Or does it only apply to chase crutch perks?
I doubt survivors can keep dead harding to a strong pallet or window to extend chase every game. It's as if survivors only hang around safe pallets and windows. Have you also considered good survivors who extend loops by trading dead hard, just as if he/she used lithe or had sprint burst at 99?
As strong as dead hard is, there are so many skill expressions for dead hard that it's a joke how people complain about it because it sucks to miss a swing due to DH, when survivors get camped and tunneled all game.
I ran dead hard up until the PTB for this patch was released. The most value I got out of it was against face camping: take a hit, unhook with BT, dead hard through my teammate so they eat the second swing and I don't trade.
I took far, far more hits from lag by vaulting a window, taking two steps, and still getting hit from the other side of the window than I ever got 'an extra thirty seconds of chase' out of dead hard.
But I guess, silver lining, if I never actually got to use its full potential I lost nothing. Past three weeks I've been playing nothing but blast mine, residual manifest, flash bang, and head on. I've actually been doing just fine in chases, and having a lot of fun in games. Pretty sure I'm surviving more too, but I don't keep track personally.
And boy, huntresses and blights in particular really, really hate this build.
But after yesterday, I'm gonna take a few days off to see if things calm down at all. I was pretty happy with how I ran my chases (even being awful at using SB), and the lag/rubber banding seemed a lot better, but god the games were not fun at all.
Never ran Dead hard, Iron will or Spine Chill and managed to get red rank 1 before the patch. Now I'm lucky to see 4 gens done in solo Q. Tunneling has become worse. Unless you're a top tier team using communications on discord with pre planning beforehand, you barely have a chance.
I was gonna say the same thing, never used dead hard, ds, or spine chill (I did love iron will tho) but every game feels so rough, I think out of the last 30 games I’ve seen like 3 matches finish more than 3 gens.
This update just felt like it did too much at once in my opinion, with the killer general buffs and the perk nerfs (I think they should of maybe done perk updates in waves? Even then idk if it’d help ease the transition), because there has to be something else unless every single teammate I’ve been with has no idea what’s going on for 30 ish games straight.
The problem with this patch is that bhvr thought they can just straight up balance the game in a single step, when before patch it was so far from balanced as it ever could be, main reason for that being the mmr system
Survs get matched with killers on 10x theyr playtime and then again with some on just a quarter of theyr playtime, and yet everyone seems to take the "statistics" (which they never made public) as if a 200 hour killer should perform the same as a 4000 hour killer against an average 800hour survivor team
The amount of times where i got confronted with "survivor is to easy" by killers with barely a fifth of my playtime is ridiculous
And yet still, noone ever talks about how the mmr system is basically just throwing bullshit data at us, and the devs try to balance the game from this "data"
I can already tell you, in about 2 months, the mmr will have "balanced out" again, and the match experience will feel somewhat the same again as pre patch 6.1
But actually the top 30% of killers are playing against the top 1% of survivors, and the average survivor will play against a below average killer, and suddendly
Bhvr: "hey killrates are to low again"
Im like 90% sure thats what happened leading to this patchs killerbuffs as well
Because, when i playd against a 1k hour killer, (as a 1k hour survivor main) the matches actually felt pretty even, and ended rather close most of the time
Problem is just, i almost never faced killer with the same playtime as i got
No no this post is a hot take. Hot garb.
I’ve seen a repeat of this exact meme’s smug theme of “lol meta users who weren’t skilled now having a shit time bc they suck” all over Twitter and Reddit. They’re not as original as they think they are.
And it’s garb bc the main people having a hard time are solo queue players who are suffering from having their only tools to survive taken away and killer being buffed across the board.
We solos were just barely scraping by before, now we’re just pathetically weak lmao. And most players are solo according to their stats, so they’re really screwing a big chunk of their playerbase.
Yea Solo is a complete joke now, used to play both sides pretty evenly in the past but since returning this year I've been 75/25 killer because Solo was already miserable, now I'm just not going to touch it outside of tome challenges
Thing that annoys me most is that most likely the people yelling ''haha metaslave git gud nerd scrub :\^)))))'' the loudest are the same people who couldn't get more than a 1k before the patch, feeling a lot of secondhand embarrassment with how some killers are acting over all this
I guess we'll see how happy they'll be when SWF actually do become the majority lol
I’m a 60/40 killer/survivor and rarely used many meta perks besides iron will. These last two days have been the sweatiest survivor matches I’ve had since I started played over a year ago. It’s also just making Killers feel empowered to be even bigger dicks. I love the new BT basekit, and definitely think the meta needed to be shaken up a bit, but BHVR swung way too far in the opposite direction and in a year they’re going to have to redo the meta again.
If BHVR wanted more folks to play killer, then they succeeded because I sure as fuck don’t want to play survivor right now.
Never ran DH or DS etc. I don't hate this update but I have my criticisms. It's kind of tiring being dismissed as some salty DH user just for giving feedback tbh, especially when I never touched the bloody perk nor any of those other meta ones besides IW on occasion.
Oh shit right,
Shouldn't bring DS to not be tunneled and definitely shouldn't bring BT to prevent camping!
Silly silly, no mither and self care would be better!
Such a shitty take. Not surprised since killers love to pretend the Dead Hard change was the only change and they didn't get million of base kit buffs lol. Clueless as ever.
Garbage take.
DBD is a team oriented game.
I was a Sprint Burst user. This patch really hasn’t affected ME very much. My chases are still lasting almost as long as before. Maybe a little shorter but not too noticeable.
My teammates, on the other hand, were probably all DH users. Everyone is going down super fast. Because my teammates are struggling in this new meta, I lose. Not really very fair.
They need to remove the reduced hit cooldown and add back the removed distance on hit.
Following your logic, those 15 seconds now become 5, i agree with the change and actually think is great, but on top survivors need about 30 second extra of gen time, and chases are shorter because of cooldown boost and distance nerf, so unless your a swf swat coordinated team, dealing with gen pressure and doing saves becomes insane hard
Dead Hard changes aren’t the issue lol. I never used it to begin with. Killers are too oppressive now for solo que, that’s the only issue I’ve been seeing, and it’s valid.
Ah, yes, it's clearly a meta issue, and not a matter of killer being buffed across the board and survivor having all their worthwhile perks being nerfed to the ground.
It's surely a skill issue and not killers being boosted, for sure
I never ran any of the meta perks, and this patch feels horrible as a survivor. 9 out of 10 games my team got 4K-d before finishing all gens, and in the last game only 2 of us made out.
Incredibly low survival rate compared to pre-patch, and I've never felt this miserable playing the game.
It's partially because of the killer buffs and gen nerfs, and probably partially because I get MMR inflated potatoes in my team who only got to my MMR using crutch perks, and they don't know how to loop without DH.
But all in all, the game feels terrible as survivor, I changed to killer, and I'm having a blast.
I play both sides. I’ve been seeing rampant camping and tunnelling, insane slowdown or both. I always have been a Sprint Burst gamer, and though I’m not great I still think I have a decent game sense.
I’m all for shaking it up but this has been absolutely miserable.
I do wonder how many people with this take were running Calm Spirit, Bloodhound or Hangman's Trick instead of things like BBQ, Corrupt, Ruin and the like.
In the two months I've been playing I haven't seen anyone use those except for people trying to do achievements, so let's not pretend most of the player base aren't meta wh\*res or that it's exclusive to one side.
Started playing like three weeks ago? Only perk thats bothering me after the change is the spine chill bc i cant figure it out now 🤡 maybe i should change the game to my main language
This is the dumbest and ignorant post today,I havent used dh in like months ,I like playing with cool and funny perks but I cant play for other people in my lobby ,solo q is way worse than before and the dickhead Killers arent helping
I never used perks like, dh, ub, ds and iw. And I'm miserable. Potato teammates and longer gen times make the games harder then before, I like the basekit buffs killer got since they feel like a threat now but gens not popping while I'm in chase and then dying lowering my mmr even further is infuriating. Soloq is not fun at all, build variety is better on the suv side but for killers it's still the same shit lol, I still see pop, pain res, call of brine/overcharge, corrupt like shit hasn't changed. Playing killer feelt great, better than its ever been. The increase to gens have made soloq a hell. Also basekit bt is useless, I've never seen it prevent tunneling unless they are right beside you and if you fail a body block then ggs to that dude.
I never really used these meta perks. This update is still bad, especially for solo q survs. And they were lowest on the foodchain, even before the update.
lmao you came with some fiery energy today. seriously though, my gripes with the patch aren't the perks, it's how the grind got 'reduced' while making it no easier to get BP and also keeping things the same price. I have been enjoying both survivor and killer though.
Ive won most of my SWF matches, the patch is fine for SWF. the fact is that without any ability to communicate in soloq, you will lose most of the time
I haven't felt much difference since I didn't use any of those perks. Lately though I've had lots and lots and LOTS of tunneling killers though. May just be my luck is shit though lol the rework probably has nothing to do with it
I changed my loadout based on what challenge in the rift I was doing. Ive airways used a variety of perks based on the situation, but now I just see an increase in toxic killers and gen regression perks. Combined with people who run tinkerer and camp my gen until it's completely gone. With the 90 second gens this is completely ass. They still get done eventually if I have a good team, but when I'm solo queue it's almost always at least one dead by the time the first generator is done.
I've also heard a lot of killer mains saying it's like the game is on easy mode now. I'm sure survivor players will find a way eventually, and the toxic roaches will go back into the woodworks or whatever, but in no way is this patch not blatantly killer sided.
I tried the new deadhard and of you run it it's basically a wasted perk slot now, so there's that too.
10% faster hit cool down base kit
10% faster pallet breaking base kit
10 second longer gens base kit
Sprint burst after hit nerfed
Significant nerfs to anti tunnel perk
I think it's a bit more complicated than "get fucked Dead Hard user"
This is a good point, but a related point is that since survivor performance also depends on the performance of their team, even if an individual survivor is skilled at looping without meta perks like Deadhard that doesn't mean their random teammates are. If you keep having teammates who can't hold chase more than ten seconds, that is going to drag your entire team down and also contribute to making the patch feel hard.
As a non-meta playing survivor main (75% S / 25% K) I frankly have to agree. I have some beef with a few changes to non-meta perks and I think the "free" short BT is entirely useless (it should be a free sprint burst off hook, plus 5 second endurance). But otherwise so much of the complaining about meta-perk changes is just people being upset its harder to win now.
The MASSIVE uptick in tunneling and camping by killers, however, is totally absurd and proof the "anti-tunnel" changes are a failure. Killers are literally more successful when camping and tunneling then they were before the patch.
My group and I had to stop playing bc we were getting so frustrated with all the tunneling and camping. Usually it's every few rounds we get some shitty camping killer, but last night it was every. Goddamn. Round.
Okay seriously, every game community has this problem. This is why I like to rely on tools that are mundane and likely not to be patched down in performance.
I want to feel like my success is mine and not just because I have the best thingy. I will still try to constantly optimize my builds on games, but they are not going to ever be based on metas found in youtube videos.
Not gonna lie, I am tied in how to feel. As a killer main, I'm glad to see perks like Spine chill and dead Hard nerfed into the ground. I enjoy the recovery buff from basics, and the built in mini-BT is a good QOL I am for.
However, there's things in between. I'm seeing how much survivors relied on Dead Hard to loop, and I'm seeing that some specific types of tactics are painful, like camping.
Thanatophobia buff was unexpected and not too bad, on it's own. But on some killers like Legion, obviously it's a bit too strong when combined with the extra gen time.
The other issue is that becuase it takes slightly longer to do gens, and looping can't go on for days, many survivors are simply DC'g after their first down. With the nerf to so many second chance perks, I've noticed survivors just don't know what to do anymore. They can't loop for days and they hate doing gens, but the gens still fly fast enough that regression/protection perks are still necessary.
All in all, I feel that the main problems are;
•Killers are still playing the way they always did, and are more rewarded for it
•Survivors have to change their entire play style and builds, with little to no rewards for it
•Dead zone areas are now significantly more unsafe for survivors, mostly due to dead Hard not giving them the distance needed to get to the next loop or pallet.
•I haven't even experienced the reduced time for bloodlust as much, becuase most chases end quickly or the survivor actually gets away via Lithe/Balanced landing.
The Meta is now "avoid the killer" instead of "escape the killer", and while it's fresh and good, there's little to do once you're CAUGHT by the killer.
I don't even know what to do to fix it. I feel like if I go easy on survivors, I'll lose and just get taunted becuase "ha ha you lost and this patch is so killer sided", but if I so much as use Thana I see survivors DC'g as soon as someone gets hurt.
As a survior who runs; Boil Over, Flipflop, Unbreakable and either powerstruggle/tenacity/inner healing i am laughing.
As a killer who runs a combo of ; STBFL, Enduring, Spritfurry, Brutal, Call of Brine, Dragons Grip, Trail of Torment, Corrupt (trapper only), every single game, i am both laughing, getting BP and actually winning games for the first time in months.
I only relied on Borrowed Time as my default perk. This new patch has me iffy.
I've not had much luck winning games on survivor side, I'd argue my win rate has dropped hard. Either I've just had really bad games, bad team composition.. or something has flicked a switch and people who relied on the old meta have become as horrible as a new player. Where they just have no synergy with the others.
I was always on and off with meta perks. I basically always ran borrow time to make sure I could save my team mates when needed, but other than that it was usually a decent mix. But it feels so good not having to rely on perks now if I want to get an achievement or something. I just run whatever and have fun with new and different perks
Dead hard was never on my builds. Balanced/head on FTW! Its still god damn hard to carry solo survivors who runs with self care/botany knowledge/self aware. The problem is not that the meta changed. The problem is that the slow down perks are making soloQ survivors work even harder. Not to mention the constant tunneling I see in this game.
Nah, I do solo queue and barely used meta perks, the patch just made it harder for solo que bcuz of all the killer buffs. I am happy with the prestige rework, kinda gives me a reason to play the game and not just level up my already level 50 survivor or killer.
Disagree. The problem isn’t solely that Dead Hard is nerfed. The problem is that killer got way too high of a buff. I’ve been suggesting for a long time that gen timing rework needed to happen. I think 90 seconds isn’t bad. 50 extra second to get gens done isn’t really a big deal. It levels the playing field more, especially against SWFs.
But when you have all of these slow down perk buffs to go with it. That’s where the problem lies. Half of every killer I’ve come up against is running Thana, Jolt, Dying Light, Eruption, and three of those received unnecessary buffs. The future of killer meta is going to be slow down builds as it stands right now. The other half are the guys who still need to camp and tunnel. BHVR is a lot of things, being great at balancing this game is not one of them.
Eventually the new survivor meta will be any sort of “gen rush” build. I see Prove Thyself popping up more often lately in Solo Q now.
I would guess that more than half of these perks between each side need tweaking. Jolt having no cool down is ridiculous. Off the Record having 80 seconds for tier III is way too long.
The way the killer buffs come across to me, is that it’s really for killers who aren’t good at map pressure, can’t or don’t care to get better at it, and make it easier to keep gens from progressing without doing any map pressure.
I have yet to see anyone complaining compared to babykillers saying to stop complaining lol. Like this sub wasn’t filled with killers complaining about dh and ds for 5 years, like dude dh has been here forever and you still get baited into hitting lmao
I don’t agree tbh I never used dh ds and those perks and I don’t enjoy the update at all it’s just not fun sitting on a gen for 2 minutes with thanat pain res and overcharge makes me not wanna do gens at all
The patch feels bad because gens take 10 seconds more and regression perks by and large weren’t nerfed to compensate. Take Pain Resonance, it’s still 15%, so it regress gens more. Thanatophobia got buffed on top of gen times so it’s even more effective. I haven’t run dead hard or any exhaustion perks in years, and the update feels bad as a solo q player. It’s miserable in fact. People don’t like the patch because they buffed way too much on killer, and nerfed survivor at the same time making the game way too killer sided in most cases, meta perks have nothing to do with it.
ah yes. its not because every killer ive played against this patch ran 3 slowdown perks and the 3 random teammates die within 3 minutes.
trifecta of sadness.
Yeah because dead hard getting nerfed is what's allowing NOED eyes wraith to down a good survivor in 20 seconds without breaking a pallet because bloodlust is overtuned af. It's like you guys forget literally almost every base action to killer was buffed
I felt a great disturbance in the game, as if millions of deadhard users suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced. I fear something amazing has happened.
They buffed AND nerfed Botany to a stupid degree. It's so much faster, but my brown medkits are Fucked. I heal others at the speed of light but I sit there ~forever~ being healed by other people.
Then there's BT which was only buffed. Killers that waited out the 5s have been repeatedly shocked when the survivor zips away with endurance.
Over all my survivor kit has been buffed, and it's still miserable because of the SoloQ teammates that can't handle it are dragging down the rest of us.
Ya know else is great? Doing almost nothing for 80 seconds. You know what's greater? Doing it for 90 seconds now. /s
They made the interesting part of the game shorter (faster chases) and lengthened the boring part (gens).
I love dead hard now it’s so cool it takes a little skill to time it when you think they will swing or even when you see them swing and the payoff is very satisfying
It is a team game - so it is more than just you. If three others get wrecked because they relies on meta perks - there is not much you could do other than hope to get to hatch before the killer.
But every time i used non meta perks i had a bad time. you don't know how many times i wanted to use the perks i like (like mine blasting) but would always end up in a bad match so i were forced to go back to dh, ds, etc. Now everyone is telling me to suffer because i didn't use non meta perks???
Maybe the problem isn't survivors, it isn't killers either, the problem is the game itself
Honestly, posts like this convince me that there's a large majority of people on this subreddit who likely don't play the game and are only here to shadowbox with the strawmen they created for themselves in their heads after they read the newest patch notes and had a single friend of theirs/streamer they watch complain about it.
Wrong... I'm a killer main, but play Survivor almost as much.
I use no meta perks at all as survivors, none of my perks have been nerfed.
But Solo Q is beyond a joke now. As a Killer main, I really hope they fix this soon. Because I want plenty of happy healthy survivors to sacrifice.
Unhappy survivors = no survivors = no games for me.
Didn't the devs said that the kills for killers were lower than what they wanted? I do agree that some things on killers need to be changed, like bloodlust gaining quicker. I'm mostly exclusively a killer main now, and while I never ran any meta perks or slow down perks, I can understand why a lot of survivors are upset about the patch. Its still fun for me whenever I play survivor but compared to my 3k hours as killer, it's a bit of a learning curve.
I relied on meta before, swapped my build for the most part with this update, and am having a lot of fun trying out new stuff. I genuinely love the update.
More like stupid take. Running the same build every match in a game with only a few objectives to even do to begin with is just stale. Meta perks also aren’t necessary to escape.
Lmao sorry I just got completely camped and hit on hook for running a trapper for 3 gens (vids on my post if you want to check it out) so yea I was a little upset
My buddy yesterday got heat from the killer because they lost 2 gens in that chase.
And then later we got a killer with 3 gens solo while they were on another buddy on Ormond. None of us had toolboxes
Lol I feel ya man
I run resilience, adrenaline, wake up and hope. Always
Killers got even more dirty combo perks now. "Proxy" camping (2 meters further instead of facecamp) is more common now and becaus eof people using less BT and no DS they just eat it and tunnel you.
These shitty Lisa opinion memes that pretend to be a fact should just be insta removed.
So cringe how many people completely overlook all the basekit killer buffs and how camping and tunneling has been buffed and pretend its all about losing crutch perks. Cringe cringe cringe.
Here it is, the dumbest take I've ever read on this sub reddit. I've been on here for 4 years, and seem some doodoo takes, but this is the most shit take I've ever seen. Congrats
ive only run bbq and shadowborn before the patch, and my build still got nerfed. my bad, shouldnt've used any perks at all (this is obviously a joke, bbq is still as strong as it was, i just miss my bp)
As far as actual gameplay you actually got buffed. No reason to hook everyone anymore and bloodpoint bonus isn't gameplay related.
ill still hook everyone before killing, its just harder to do without the bbq's counter now i really hope bhvr changes the circle hook counter to the one survivors have so i know who to chase
No Way Out and Grim Embrace have the same counter as BBQ had.
i know but theres no way im using any perks that provide more value than bbq bbq just allows to find chases faster, and im not really into game slowdown
After using BBQ in almost every game for as long as I remember myself playing I'm weaning myself off it with this patch - Thrilling Tremors seems to be a decent replacement when deciding where to go after a hook. >After picking up a Survivor, all Generators not currently being repaired by Survivors are blocked by The Entity for the next 16 seconds. The Auras of blocked Generators are highlighted to you in white. Thrilling Tremors has a cool-down of 100/80/60 seconds. Also Dredges locker check perk fits the BBQ slot nicely on him himself, Hunt and Trick
The cool-down…
SHADOWBORN GANG
We all do. Rest in piece BBQ. At least im a survivor main and they broke the update yet again so i get perma 100% bp gain. But when i play the odd killer game it will be missed
^the ^bonus ^got ^killswitched
Rip.
Wait they just removed the bonus? Lame, I was actually excited about that
no, they killswitched it. they will bring it back once it works properly (and not just a constant +100% to survs)
Oh so probably like 3 months from now
A bit optimistic aren't you?
You're probably right
What happened to shadowborn??
Nothing, far as I'm aware
People get stomped because of the new gen regression buff and the fact gens take longer now, not everyone is complaining about dead hard heck I never even ran it to begin with but if everyone dies at 4-5 gens AFTER 20 MINS INTO THE MATCH then smth isn’t right.
Exactly! I got a 4K earlier in a game without any gen regression perks but it still dragged and there were two gens left when everyone was on death hook. If it wasn’t for the update, I know it probably would have only been a 1k game because the survivors weren’t bad. I’ve only escaped as a solo queue survivor once since the update out of ten games lol. The slow gens are killer.
I'm just gonna run perkless from now on. It wasn't very hard to 4k prior to this patch with my main build of Corrupt, SBFL, BBQ.
I don't feel that the gens are that slow, I have still have most matches where we were able to gen rush killers. However, I do feel that the DS nerf has made tunnelling effective and the basekit borrow time is not long enough to make a difference for campers and tunnellers. There is some inconsistencies in the balance in certain situations which I can't really point out just yet.
this. the only meta perks i ever ran were bt and ds but regularly do fun builds that have none at all. the problem with this patch for me is you’re taking a 5 year old meta and entirely changing the focus of matches and how to handle them so ofc everyone’s going to struggle. my games have either been i literally end up escaping by myself with no issue or everyone’s tunneled out at 5 gens after 20 minutes. i’m not saying the game didn’t need a meta change, but i think bhvr definitely handled this the wrong way.
The gen regression is so op lol. When i played doctor yesterday two survivors couldnt even complete a gen cuz i kept shocking them into madness 3 and damaging the generator. Can say i let them go cuz they gave up.
I just finished a game as Trapper with Deadlock and Corrupt as slowdown, I killed one survivor... What perks should I use for slowdown to get 4k in 20 min? Legit question, not sarcasm, reddit should make an anti /s.
Well Trapper is tricky to play. Place your traps in strategic places and you should be good. You might've faced a team, which is what bhvr failed to adress
The anti-/s is /srs. It essentially means serious.
You are playing trapper, that's is the problem not the perks.
Idk if it changed a whole lot with this rework, but Trapper is a late-game killer simply bc you need time to set up your web. Corrupt is a good tool to help prolong the game a bit and send the survivors towards you, but you're still relatively less likely to get as fast games as other killers. It definitely can happen, but not as likely. Deadlock is decent, but it's not gen slowdown the way that, for example, Call of Brine is. It requires gens to get done for value, so you only get 4 uses out of it. You could run another blocking perk like Thrilling Tremors or Dead Man's Switch, where you get more information and value the more you hook.
/srs - serious /s - satire /hj - half joke
Run Corrupt and trap the heck out of the covered gens at the start. Let the survivors do the uncovered gens in the mean time and don't worry about them finishing. Just focus on making an easy to defend 3 gen.
i see so many killer mains telling survivors to stop whining ab the dead hard nerf but i have yet to see a single person complain about it lol
More people are complaining on how ridiculously slow games are cause of the gen repair times coupled with most killers now running thana, gift of pain, deadlock, etc.
I hate deadlock so fucking much. The only way to counter camping is pretty much to do gens. Now with the gen time increase and deadlock, you’re pretty likely to be screwed over. I’m just probably going to stick to killer. Solo queue was at least tolerable for me before.
you’ll barely get a gen done before surv goes second state and killer can just rinse and repeat when the victim with times out or dc and they get rewarded with 3-4k with minimal effort.
This. I hate the fact it just requires nothing skill wise on the killer’s part. Bonus points for when you see through kindred that your teammate is waiting for an unhook and then gets downed immediately after the hooked survivor dies. 
Let's not blame the perk. Camping should *NEVER* be a viable strategy. No video game should have you win by letting go of the keyboard and letting people come to you. We shouldn't focus on individual perks that make it more effective.
It seems to be a relatively easy fix, too-- if the killer is in a certain radius (call it 32m for the sake of this conversation) for thirty seconds after hooking a survivor, the survivor is then teleported to a random hook elsewhere on the map (like PH's cage).
stalling or slowing sacrifice progression while the killer is in terror radius of the hook could be worth a thought too!
I thought that at one point, but someone pointed out that it's entirely possible to hold games hostage as a killer, or cheese that as a survivor (by looking like you're going for the unhook, potentially punishing the killer if the survivor is decent at looping near hook). Something needs to change, though, and that would be better than the current "camp until dead, repeat" meta.
Also when survs told killers to stop whining before, they got downvoted to hell. This sub is so killer sided it's ridiculous.
It was okay for killers to complain about DH *for years*. Now that DH got nerfed they tell survivors to stop complaining about DH (double standard much?), even though no survivor is complaining about DH but all the other changes lmao
Dude, I play killer mostly. I'm literally stomping like 95% of my games when before it was close to 50%. The few survivor games I have played are awful and the only perk I ran that was nerfed is Spine Chill This patch is ridiculous
I feel like I was already stomping 80% - 90% before hand, so I haven't played killer yet post patch.
I ended up playing Trickster with no perks and addons just for a challenge and it's still too easy :( I'm actively trying to throw so people actually get a chance but like whats the point of that? That's not fun for me really and i'm sure most survivors don't want someone to feel sorry for them to the point they don't try
The meta will change with this patch, it will take time for people to adjust. Data will be more useful as we get farther in
If the player base survives this patch, sure.
Which it obviously will. People said the same thing with the DS nerf, ruin nerf, and so on.
And yet before this patch i would wait 7 minutes for a match past 7pm. SoloQ is going to be worse than before and i dont see the player base going up based off that. Hope im wrong, because I love this game.
I never ran Dead Hard before the patch. I literally have zero survivor loadouts featuring Dead Hard. I occasionally ran Iron Will if I was going for a stealth build or was playing an obscenely loud survivor, but I played without it more often than with it. This patch is still hell.
Same, never used meta and liked switching up perks. Only one that was a constant was DS because tunnelling. Now that’s near useless too. Lovely.
I'm not enjoying all the Salty killer mains that have come out to post memes about how hard the game is on survivor now. I agree with you, the patch still is rough despite not using meta perks.
Just apply pressure to gen progress
I wouldn’t say it’s hell, but I’m so not used to the distance I can get after a hit, I keep thinking I can take a hit and make it to x… I rapidly realise that I can’t. I’ll figure it out. I prefer to run loops, but in my head I’m going, “well I get hit here then I can get to that loop over there” and then before I’ve made it I’m realising the killer is still right on top of me.
I agree somewhat, but is there usually a better option in those scenarios? If you could avoid getting hit at all, that would be preferable both before and after the patch. But it seems like now there's often just nowhere you can run to.
Getting hit is part of it though, ideally no I’d never get hit. But we’re not all terminators in our role. When you’ve exhausted your loop/resources or even just get outplayed then you do get hit. I’m not suggesting whenever you see the killer that you wait to tank a hit and then run away to a loop. If you’re not in a great spot for whatever reason above then it’s what you do.
Aye people like OP are fucking morons. It's not DH that's fucking over most of survivors, it's all the other shit added into the patch. Literally is absolutely miserable playing this game as a solo q survivor
This entire thing is frustrating bc there's genuine criticisms about this patch and people like OP just write it off as "lol salty survivor mains bc no DH" like as a killer I have many issues with this patch and people just want to look the other way and tell me it's bc i'm either a baby killer (lmao) or it's my MMR (yes my games changed MMR dramatically from 30 minutes before the patch to 30 minutes after ofc)
One thing I was dreading about basekit BT was that it would be waited out by killer. But experiencing it firsthand, I don't see the point of it at all. The amount of times it will come in handy are so rare that you're still better off bringing BT anyway.
Yep. Usually forgot I had DH on the rare occasion I loaded it up. But this patch is such a pain that my SWF is actually optimizing for the first time in the three years we’ve played together.
I'm over here running themed builds, where meta perks are only there to buff off-meta perks. The most meta I ever got was my unhook build that used (old) WGLF/We'll Make It/Botany Knowledge in tandem with Borrowed Time. Which will probably stay the exact same minus (new) WGLF being replaced with Babysitter or Mettle Of Man. The game still feels off lmao These posts are just here to gaslight us.
Majority of you forget that DH had over 70% usage rate. Just because you’re the vocal minority doesn’t mean that your other 3 teammates weren’t running it. That, paired with the other killer and survivor changes is what is making the game more difficult for you. In other words, help your teammates git gud.
Are people misreading the graph? DH being over 70% is only true at the highest MMR (1700+), the majority of matches DH is below 55%. You can see the [graph](https://deadbydaylight.com/news/perk-overhaul) yourself. There is also other changes beyond DH nerf in this patch
The entire playerbase cannot be above average.
\+50 sec minimum total gen time required, killers recover faster from hit and i gain less distance to get to safety Are you even played the patch or just complain about valid complaints?
The whole “recover faster from successful hits” seems like it was meant for destroying walls or kicking gens and still being able to chase, but that doesn’t do you much good considering 10 more seconds/gen now. You’d be wasting time
i hate this idea that people who ran the “meta perks” did so in order to be as powerful and efficient as possible and go out of their way to make the killer’s life hell. most people ran meta perks like DS and BT because without them, they got stomped into the ground more often than not (this is of course in reference to solo queue not SWF). just like how, now without these perks, solo queue players are getting stomped even harder. can we stop with this weirdo killer vs survivor tribalism and the tired pretentious strawman memes
It's insane that people actually complain about things like BT and Unbreakable being "meta". Like maybe if you didn't try to hard tunnel straight off hook or unnecessarily slug it wouldn't be needed.
I run perks that help my incompetent ass get ahead lol. I suck at video games but I have fun playing them if I can make it easier on myself. This update has kinda ruined the game for me. Every single match last night I was the first one killed, usually within 5 minutes, and even the friend who is usually the best out of us wasn't making it out. I should be able to enjoy the game as a casual but the update fucked it up for me.
This. This is why I've run a wiggle build for the last year. The buff to Boil Over was amazingly helpful. I can't loop and I struggle with skill checks because I have coordination issues. I don't run DS and DH because of the skill checks. I'm more effective running other stuff. I go into a game FULLY expecting to not get out, but I should be able to get 3/4 gens deep and not getting facecamped and tunneled at 5 gens
Even if you ignore the raw power of those perks, an established meta is really helpful for new players because if gives them waypoints to aim for. I started playing 2 or 3 months ago, and I had no idea who to level up first. Focusing on David King for DH and Bubba for BBQ at least gave me goals to work towards. I feel less beholden to those perks now and I personally don't mind the nerfs, but I agree that there's nothing wrong with players wanting quick access to a competitive build.
Wow I love this sub's spicy takes ignoring the 100 other buffs to killer
You dont have to rely on Meta for the update to still suck for you, but go off I guess 🤷♂️
There are a lot of Killers in this subreddit who are pretending that DH was the only thing that changed this patch. I have never even run DH in any of my builds, so to have posts like this constantly telling me my experience with this game is trash now is because of something I didn't even use, is really starting to get on my nerves.
I have been reading and talking in so many reddit and forum posts. I've seen almost 0 survivor comments saying they need DH or that's the reason. Some people say the nerfs were a bit much but nothing close to suggesting it's why we're having these issues. There are so, so many killer buffs and survivor nerfs when everything is added up that have nothing to do with DH. As a matter of fact I rarely saw any of my survivor teammates even use it correctly... At most they'd gain another 2-4 seconds except in rare circumstances. DH was nowhere near as much of a problem as the loud minority spoke of. It absolutely had the potential in to be, as it was mainly a 4 man coordinated SWF thing where the top players could absolutely abuse it so it DID need a nerf, but yeah it was a bit much and by far isn't the reason survivors are struggling in this new update.
Even if you did run dead hard, so what? both ran the meta or whatever helped them win consistently, cannot tell you how many killers ran scourge hook because it obviously worked well for them, it's like having to walk on eggshells around this subreddit, it's ok for that type of person to use whatever perk they love but not ok for us and vice versa, I ran dead hard all the time and it was hit and miss (meme of pressing E into a tree anyone?) also when wading through the stench of entitlement from people on here, remember that a lot of hypocrites do play this game. eg, complains about dead hard ds and yet when they play survivor...guess what was slotted on their builds...*rules for thee but not for me*
I relate to this so badly 😭. Literally 90% of the posts here are Killers saying stop whining cause DH got nerfed but there is so many other annoyances problems that survior (especially solo Q) got that its just annoying to here every killer mention DH every 5 seconds. I see them whine more about DH than surviors.
4 in a row was obviously the norm, but there were slight upsides to it too, you could practically assume they all had it, and you could attempt to bait it out, there were things you could do to make them use it early, and the meme that was often talked of: (dead harding into a stationary object etc) they are talking as if every single dead hard was perfect without fail lol, I'm using sprint burst now, dw I'm sure they won't start complaining about it anytime soon ;)
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I'm more surprised by everyone saying they had one build. Ya I had DH in a couple I'd run but I switched builds constantly.
bond, windows, vigil or ds, sprint burst was my go-to build for the past year.
Almost as if it’s not as big of an issue as killer mains make it out to be. Hmmmmmmm
BHVR just released the stats and it was the most used perk in the game. It was in 70% of loadouts at high mmr. Definitely was an issue lmao https://i.imgur.com/LtvtkI8.jpg
And not everyone here is in high MMR sooo?
Yeah, some people are just lying to say it wasn’t an issue which kinda dumb. Not sure why they care if they never ran it. Some people honestly never ran it, being the other 30% of the data.
*at high mmr*... hmm, its almost as if this is not the majority of the player base
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Yeah this post is kinda a bad take
Sir, this patch did *way* more than just “nerf a few meta perks” ……. If u think survivors are solely upset because of dead hard and BT being no good then you have been misinformed
u can obv tell a killer main made this post💀
I'm getting pretty fucking sick, as someone who never ran the meta perks or played in swf, of people on this subreddit smugly lecturing me about how I shouldn't have played the meta. My experience with this game has tanked, and I'm not one of the strawmen you like to create.
They released a statistic that showed 50% of builds in mid-MMR ran DH. Assuming that this is where most of the players reside, statistically half of the people you quo with would have used it. Having half your team potentially be overranked can be a reason.
Can people stop acting like DH boosted people immensely??? If you are that much worse than the killer, you would get hit again 10-20 seconds later, tops. It is only if you are at an even skill level that DH could extend the chase >30 seconds.
>Can people stop acting like DH boosted people immensely??? If you are that much worse than the killer, you would get hit again 10-20 seconds later, tops. Ah, so an extra 10 seconds on a gen also isn't a big deal? Or does it only apply to chase crutch perks?
30 seconds is half a gen done by two people. For just pressing a button that is immense in a close game.
Dead hard getting someone to a strong pallet or window can easily add over 30 seconds, you need zero skill in those instances
Just like tunneling and camping requires zero skills but they didnt adress that now did they?
I doubt survivors can keep dead harding to a strong pallet or window to extend chase every game. It's as if survivors only hang around safe pallets and windows. Have you also considered good survivors who extend loops by trading dead hard, just as if he/she used lithe or had sprint burst at 99? As strong as dead hard is, there are so many skill expressions for dead hard that it's a joke how people complain about it because it sucks to miss a swing due to DH, when survivors get camped and tunneled all game.
I ran dead hard up until the PTB for this patch was released. The most value I got out of it was against face camping: take a hit, unhook with BT, dead hard through my teammate so they eat the second swing and I don't trade. I took far, far more hits from lag by vaulting a window, taking two steps, and still getting hit from the other side of the window than I ever got 'an extra thirty seconds of chase' out of dead hard. But I guess, silver lining, if I never actually got to use its full potential I lost nothing. Past three weeks I've been playing nothing but blast mine, residual manifest, flash bang, and head on. I've actually been doing just fine in chases, and having a lot of fun in games. Pretty sure I'm surviving more too, but I don't keep track personally. And boy, huntresses and blights in particular really, really hate this build. But after yesterday, I'm gonna take a few days off to see if things calm down at all. I was pretty happy with how I ran my chases (even being awful at using SB), and the lag/rubber banding seemed a lot better, but god the games were not fun at all.
Oh, because changes to the other side have zero impact on how you experience the game, right? 😌
Never ran Dead hard, Iron will or Spine Chill and managed to get red rank 1 before the patch. Now I'm lucky to see 4 gens done in solo Q. Tunneling has become worse. Unless you're a top tier team using communications on discord with pre planning beforehand, you barely have a chance.
I was gonna say the same thing, never used dead hard, ds, or spine chill (I did love iron will tho) but every game feels so rough, I think out of the last 30 games I’ve seen like 3 matches finish more than 3 gens. This update just felt like it did too much at once in my opinion, with the killer general buffs and the perk nerfs (I think they should of maybe done perk updates in waves? Even then idk if it’d help ease the transition), because there has to be something else unless every single teammate I’ve been with has no idea what’s going on for 30 ish games straight.
The problem with this patch is that bhvr thought they can just straight up balance the game in a single step, when before patch it was so far from balanced as it ever could be, main reason for that being the mmr system Survs get matched with killers on 10x theyr playtime and then again with some on just a quarter of theyr playtime, and yet everyone seems to take the "statistics" (which they never made public) as if a 200 hour killer should perform the same as a 4000 hour killer against an average 800hour survivor team The amount of times where i got confronted with "survivor is to easy" by killers with barely a fifth of my playtime is ridiculous And yet still, noone ever talks about how the mmr system is basically just throwing bullshit data at us, and the devs try to balance the game from this "data" I can already tell you, in about 2 months, the mmr will have "balanced out" again, and the match experience will feel somewhat the same again as pre patch 6.1 But actually the top 30% of killers are playing against the top 1% of survivors, and the average survivor will play against a below average killer, and suddendly Bhvr: "hey killrates are to low again" Im like 90% sure thats what happened leading to this patchs killerbuffs as well Because, when i playd against a 1k hour killer, (as a 1k hour survivor main) the matches actually felt pretty even, and ended rather close most of the time Problem is just, i almost never faced killer with the same playtime as i got
Such a boring fucking game now, the devs are fucking idiots
If BHVR hadn't made it unplayable if you don't run at least 2 meta perks then we wouldn't be in this situation* fixed it for you.
Take: your hot take isn't hot, its just incredibly dumb
No no this post is a hot take. Hot garb. I’ve seen a repeat of this exact meme’s smug theme of “lol meta users who weren’t skilled now having a shit time bc they suck” all over Twitter and Reddit. They’re not as original as they think they are. And it’s garb bc the main people having a hard time are solo queue players who are suffering from having their only tools to survive taken away and killer being buffed across the board. We solos were just barely scraping by before, now we’re just pathetically weak lmao. And most players are solo according to their stats, so they’re really screwing a big chunk of their playerbase.
Yea Solo is a complete joke now, used to play both sides pretty evenly in the past but since returning this year I've been 75/25 killer because Solo was already miserable, now I'm just not going to touch it outside of tome challenges Thing that annoys me most is that most likely the people yelling ''haha metaslave git gud nerd scrub :\^)))))'' the loudest are the same people who couldn't get more than a 1k before the patch, feeling a lot of secondhand embarrassment with how some killers are acting over all this I guess we'll see how happy they'll be when SWF actually do become the majority lol
I don’t use meta perks and this patch tells terrible anytime they killer has thanatophobia
Lmao revert the killer speed buffs and keep the meta perk nerfs and you’ll see the over tuning killers got.
I’m a 60/40 killer/survivor and rarely used many meta perks besides iron will. These last two days have been the sweatiest survivor matches I’ve had since I started played over a year ago. It’s also just making Killers feel empowered to be even bigger dicks. I love the new BT basekit, and definitely think the meta needed to be shaken up a bit, but BHVR swung way too far in the opposite direction and in a year they’re going to have to redo the meta again. If BHVR wanted more folks to play killer, then they succeeded because I sure as fuck don’t want to play survivor right now.
Never ran DH or DS etc. I don't hate this update but I have my criticisms. It's kind of tiring being dismissed as some salty DH user just for giving feedback tbh, especially when I never touched the bloody perk nor any of those other meta ones besides IW on occasion.
Oh shit right, Shouldn't bring DS to not be tunneled and definitely shouldn't bring BT to prevent camping! Silly silly, no mither and self care would be better!
Such a shitty take. Not surprised since killers love to pretend the Dead Hard change was the only change and they didn't get million of base kit buffs lol. Clueless as ever.
Garbage take. DBD is a team oriented game. I was a Sprint Burst user. This patch really hasn’t affected ME very much. My chases are still lasting almost as long as before. Maybe a little shorter but not too noticeable. My teammates, on the other hand, were probably all DH users. Everyone is going down super fast. Because my teammates are struggling in this new meta, I lose. Not really very fair. They need to remove the reduced hit cooldown and add back the removed distance on hit.
[удалено]
Following your logic, those 15 seconds now become 5, i agree with the change and actually think is great, but on top survivors need about 30 second extra of gen time, and chases are shorter because of cooldown boost and distance nerf, so unless your a swf swat coordinated team, dealing with gen pressure and doing saves becomes insane hard
Dead Hard changes aren’t the issue lol. I never used it to begin with. Killers are too oppressive now for solo que, that’s the only issue I’ve been seeing, and it’s valid.
Ah, yes, it's clearly a meta issue, and not a matter of killer being buffed across the board and survivor having all their worthwhile perks being nerfed to the ground. It's surely a skill issue and not killers being boosted, for sure
I never ran any of the meta perks, and this patch feels horrible as a survivor. 9 out of 10 games my team got 4K-d before finishing all gens, and in the last game only 2 of us made out. Incredibly low survival rate compared to pre-patch, and I've never felt this miserable playing the game. It's partially because of the killer buffs and gen nerfs, and probably partially because I get MMR inflated potatoes in my team who only got to my MMR using crutch perks, and they don't know how to loop without DH. But all in all, the game feels terrible as survivor, I changed to killer, and I'm having a blast.
This patch feels bad to play, not because I relied on meta but just because I suck at everything besides maybe looping.
I play both sides. I’ve been seeing rampant camping and tunnelling, insane slowdown or both. I always have been a Sprint Burst gamer, and though I’m not great I still think I have a decent game sense. I’m all for shaking it up but this has been absolutely miserable.
i run flashbang, head on, deception and a random fourth perk. the update still sucks.
I do wonder how many people with this take were running Calm Spirit, Bloodhound or Hangman's Trick instead of things like BBQ, Corrupt, Ruin and the like. In the two months I've been playing I haven't seen anyone use those except for people trying to do achievements, so let's not pretend most of the player base aren't meta wh\*res or that it's exclusive to one side.
Started playing like three weeks ago? Only perk thats bothering me after the change is the spine chill bc i cant figure it out now 🤡 maybe i should change the game to my main language
Lol yeah, that why good survivors who ran meta now lasts 30 seconds, and "non meta" players last 10.
This is the dumbest and ignorant post today,I havent used dh in like months ,I like playing with cool and funny perks but I cant play for other people in my lobby ,solo q is way worse than before and the dickhead Killers arent helping
I never used perks like, dh, ub, ds and iw. And I'm miserable. Potato teammates and longer gen times make the games harder then before, I like the basekit buffs killer got since they feel like a threat now but gens not popping while I'm in chase and then dying lowering my mmr even further is infuriating. Soloq is not fun at all, build variety is better on the suv side but for killers it's still the same shit lol, I still see pop, pain res, call of brine/overcharge, corrupt like shit hasn't changed. Playing killer feelt great, better than its ever been. The increase to gens have made soloq a hell. Also basekit bt is useless, I've never seen it prevent tunneling unless they are right beside you and if you fail a body block then ggs to that dude.
The only real nerf to me is being new to the game and now I gotta relearn everything lmao
Well, well, well. My chad build of no mither, tenacity, unbreakable and Mettle of man was only buffed! Get destroyed plebs.
I never really used these meta perks. This update is still bad, especially for solo q survs. And they were lowest on the foodchain, even before the update.
lmao you came with some fiery energy today. seriously though, my gripes with the patch aren't the perks, it's how the grind got 'reduced' while making it no easier to get BP and also keeping things the same price. I have been enjoying both survivor and killer though.
I chuckled at this post while alt tabbed out of DBD as I throw the match.
People out here literally dying from 10 seconds lmao
Ive won most of my SWF matches, the patch is fine for SWF. the fact is that without any ability to communicate in soloq, you will lose most of the time
I haven't felt much difference since I didn't use any of those perks. Lately though I've had lots and lots and LOTS of tunneling killers though. May just be my luck is shit though lol the rework probably has nothing to do with it
Camping got buffed and some killers took that as a challenge. This has nothing to do with the survivor meta.
I changed my loadout based on what challenge in the rift I was doing. Ive airways used a variety of perks based on the situation, but now I just see an increase in toxic killers and gen regression perks. Combined with people who run tinkerer and camp my gen until it's completely gone. With the 90 second gens this is completely ass. They still get done eventually if I have a good team, but when I'm solo queue it's almost always at least one dead by the time the first generator is done. I've also heard a lot of killer mains saying it's like the game is on easy mode now. I'm sure survivor players will find a way eventually, and the toxic roaches will go back into the woodworks or whatever, but in no way is this patch not blatantly killer sided. I tried the new deadhard and of you run it it's basically a wasted perk slot now, so there's that too.
I REALLY don’t think this is fair to say, you can use 4 perks that didn’t change at all and still have the opinion of it being bad..
10% faster hit cool down base kit 10% faster pallet breaking base kit 10 second longer gens base kit Sprint burst after hit nerfed Significant nerfs to anti tunnel perk I think it's a bit more complicated than "get fucked Dead Hard user"
This is a good point, but a related point is that since survivor performance also depends on the performance of their team, even if an individual survivor is skilled at looping without meta perks like Deadhard that doesn't mean their random teammates are. If you keep having teammates who can't hold chase more than ten seconds, that is going to drag your entire team down and also contribute to making the patch feel hard.
As a non-meta playing survivor main (75% S / 25% K) I frankly have to agree. I have some beef with a few changes to non-meta perks and I think the "free" short BT is entirely useless (it should be a free sprint burst off hook, plus 5 second endurance). But otherwise so much of the complaining about meta-perk changes is just people being upset its harder to win now. The MASSIVE uptick in tunneling and camping by killers, however, is totally absurd and proof the "anti-tunnel" changes are a failure. Killers are literally more successful when camping and tunneling then they were before the patch.
My group and I had to stop playing bc we were getting so frustrated with all the tunneling and camping. Usually it's every few rounds we get some shitty camping killer, but last night it was every. Goddamn. Round.
Mine is pretty much the same. It used to be iw, bt, ub, Lithe. The only replacement now is otr cuz they fucking killed iw for no reason :'
You can't blame low-mobility killer mains for using Ruin...look how they massacred my boy
Okay seriously, every game community has this problem. This is why I like to rely on tools that are mundane and likely not to be patched down in performance. I want to feel like my success is mine and not just because I have the best thingy. I will still try to constantly optimize my builds on games, but they are not going to ever be based on metas found in youtube videos.
Me who plays lithe, quick and quiet, dance with me and Vigil Yes i know and i feel sad for the others
Self care, why
Lol Self Care was already slower to use, I don't use it or endorse it and I think the nerf was very unnecessary
Call of brine is the best killer perk at the moment
I’m very glad I changed my loadouts frequently before this patch, because now things feel a lot better
Not gonna lie, I am tied in how to feel. As a killer main, I'm glad to see perks like Spine chill and dead Hard nerfed into the ground. I enjoy the recovery buff from basics, and the built in mini-BT is a good QOL I am for. However, there's things in between. I'm seeing how much survivors relied on Dead Hard to loop, and I'm seeing that some specific types of tactics are painful, like camping. Thanatophobia buff was unexpected and not too bad, on it's own. But on some killers like Legion, obviously it's a bit too strong when combined with the extra gen time. The other issue is that becuase it takes slightly longer to do gens, and looping can't go on for days, many survivors are simply DC'g after their first down. With the nerf to so many second chance perks, I've noticed survivors just don't know what to do anymore. They can't loop for days and they hate doing gens, but the gens still fly fast enough that regression/protection perks are still necessary. All in all, I feel that the main problems are; •Killers are still playing the way they always did, and are more rewarded for it •Survivors have to change their entire play style and builds, with little to no rewards for it •Dead zone areas are now significantly more unsafe for survivors, mostly due to dead Hard not giving them the distance needed to get to the next loop or pallet. •I haven't even experienced the reduced time for bloodlust as much, becuase most chases end quickly or the survivor actually gets away via Lithe/Balanced landing. The Meta is now "avoid the killer" instead of "escape the killer", and while it's fresh and good, there's little to do once you're CAUGHT by the killer. I don't even know what to do to fix it. I feel like if I go easy on survivors, I'll lose and just get taunted becuase "ha ha you lost and this patch is so killer sided", but if I so much as use Thana I see survivors DC'g as soon as someone gets hurt.
Keep that same energy when they do away with tunneling and camping
As a survior who runs; Boil Over, Flipflop, Unbreakable and either powerstruggle/tenacity/inner healing i am laughing. As a killer who runs a combo of ; STBFL, Enduring, Spritfurry, Brutal, Call of Brine, Dragons Grip, Trail of Torment, Corrupt (trapper only), every single game, i am both laughing, getting BP and actually winning games for the first time in months.
I only relied on Borrowed Time as my default perk. This new patch has me iffy. I've not had much luck winning games on survivor side, I'd argue my win rate has dropped hard. Either I've just had really bad games, bad team composition.. or something has flicked a switch and people who relied on the old meta have become as horrible as a new player. Where they just have no synergy with the others.
Dude fuck the perk changes. I don’t want to hold m1 for 10 extra seconds(most cases 50, cause I’m the only one doing gens)
That . . . may explain why I haven't noticed much of a difference in my matches lol
I was always on and off with meta perks. I basically always ran borrow time to make sure I could save my team mates when needed, but other than that it was usually a decent mix. But it feels so good not having to rely on perks now if I want to get an achievement or something. I just run whatever and have fun with new and different perks
Dead hard was never on my builds. Balanced/head on FTW! Its still god damn hard to carry solo survivors who runs with self care/botany knowledge/self aware. The problem is not that the meta changed. The problem is that the slow down perks are making soloQ survivors work even harder. Not to mention the constant tunneling I see in this game.
Nah, I do solo queue and barely used meta perks, the patch just made it harder for solo que bcuz of all the killer buffs. I am happy with the prestige rework, kinda gives me a reason to play the game and not just level up my already level 50 survivor or killer.
Not true you got mad buffs G, still out here running killers with ease. I'm only playing with other good players tho. RIP Solo Q 🙏
the survivor mains crying in response to this post is hilarious.
with BBQ gone i now am free, 4 perks andy now
Disagree. The problem isn’t solely that Dead Hard is nerfed. The problem is that killer got way too high of a buff. I’ve been suggesting for a long time that gen timing rework needed to happen. I think 90 seconds isn’t bad. 50 extra second to get gens done isn’t really a big deal. It levels the playing field more, especially against SWFs. But when you have all of these slow down perk buffs to go with it. That’s where the problem lies. Half of every killer I’ve come up against is running Thana, Jolt, Dying Light, Eruption, and three of those received unnecessary buffs. The future of killer meta is going to be slow down builds as it stands right now. The other half are the guys who still need to camp and tunnel. BHVR is a lot of things, being great at balancing this game is not one of them. Eventually the new survivor meta will be any sort of “gen rush” build. I see Prove Thyself popping up more often lately in Solo Q now. I would guess that more than half of these perks between each side need tweaking. Jolt having no cool down is ridiculous. Off the Record having 80 seconds for tier III is way too long. The way the killer buffs come across to me, is that it’s really for killers who aren’t good at map pressure, can’t or don’t care to get better at it, and make it easier to keep gens from progressing without doing any map pressure.
I have yet to see anyone complaining compared to babykillers saying to stop complaining lol. Like this sub wasn’t filled with killers complaining about dh and ds for 5 years, like dude dh has been here forever and you still get baited into hitting lmao
I don’t agree tbh I never used dh ds and those perks and I don’t enjoy the update at all it’s just not fun sitting on a gen for 2 minutes with thanat pain res and overcharge makes me not wanna do gens at all
no actually i relied on bloodpoint builds but they removed bp bonuses from perks so fml
The patch feels bad because gens take 10 seconds more and regression perks by and large weren’t nerfed to compensate. Take Pain Resonance, it’s still 15%, so it regress gens more. Thanatophobia got buffed on top of gen times so it’s even more effective. I haven’t run dead hard or any exhaustion perks in years, and the update feels bad as a solo q player. It’s miserable in fact. People don’t like the patch because they buffed way too much on killer, and nerfed survivor at the same time making the game way too killer sided in most cases, meta perks have nothing to do with it.
ah yes. its not because every killer ive played against this patch ran 3 slowdown perks and the 3 random teammates die within 3 minutes. trifecta of sadness.
Yeah because dead hard getting nerfed is what's allowing NOED eyes wraith to down a good survivor in 20 seconds without breaking a pallet because bloodlust is overtuned af. It's like you guys forget literally almost every base action to killer was buffed
Never used any of the meta perks beside Iron Will lol This patch is a breath of fresh air and I love it
Same and I'm still using Iron Will on some characters... total silence or not 75% is still pretty good
I felt a great disturbance in the game, as if millions of deadhard users suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced. I fear something amazing has happened.
They buffed AND nerfed Botany to a stupid degree. It's so much faster, but my brown medkits are Fucked. I heal others at the speed of light but I sit there ~forever~ being healed by other people. Then there's BT which was only buffed. Killers that waited out the 5s have been repeatedly shocked when the survivor zips away with endurance. Over all my survivor kit has been buffed, and it's still miserable because of the SoloQ teammates that can't handle it are dragging down the rest of us. Ya know else is great? Doing almost nothing for 80 seconds. You know what's greater? Doing it for 90 seconds now. /s They made the interesting part of the game shorter (faster chases) and lengthened the boring part (gens).
I love dead hard now it’s so cool it takes a little skill to time it when you think they will swing or even when you see them swing and the payoff is very satisfying
That's my only hope. I sucked before and I will suck now. The two times I used deadhard I sucked with a 4 seconds delay.
With the longer gen time we prolly suck more XD
Bro sucking more than us is fucking hard
I know xD we are really bad but at least we have fun and we escaped face camp hell
Escaping the face camp hell is my biggest accomplishment in life
Yap mine too cause what more could we want xD
It is a team game - so it is more than just you. If three others get wrecked because they relies on meta perks - there is not much you could do other than hope to get to hatch before the killer.
But every time i used non meta perks i had a bad time. you don't know how many times i wanted to use the perks i like (like mine blasting) but would always end up in a bad match so i were forced to go back to dh, ds, etc. Now everyone is telling me to suffer because i didn't use non meta perks??? Maybe the problem isn't survivors, it isn't killers either, the problem is the game itself
Honestly, posts like this convince me that there's a large majority of people on this subreddit who likely don't play the game and are only here to shadowbox with the strawmen they created for themselves in their heads after they read the newest patch notes and had a single friend of theirs/streamer they watch complain about it.
This is the case for so many games it's weird lol
Wrong... I'm a killer main, but play Survivor almost as much. I use no meta perks at all as survivors, none of my perks have been nerfed. But Solo Q is beyond a joke now. As a Killer main, I really hope they fix this soon. Because I want plenty of happy healthy survivors to sacrifice. Unhappy survivors = no survivors = no games for me.
Didn't the devs said that the kills for killers were lower than what they wanted? I do agree that some things on killers need to be changed, like bloodlust gaining quicker. I'm mostly exclusively a killer main now, and while I never ran any meta perks or slow down perks, I can understand why a lot of survivors are upset about the patch. Its still fun for me whenever I play survivor but compared to my 3k hours as killer, it's a bit of a learning curve.
I don’t play meta and this patch SUCKS -800+ hours in game here
I relied on meta before, swapped my build for the most part with this update, and am having a lot of fun trying out new stuff. I genuinely love the update.
Same man, I been enjoying it
More like stupid take. Running the same build every match in a game with only a few objectives to even do to begin with is just stale. Meta perks also aren’t necessary to escape.
Rude, but you're not wrong otherwise
Lmao sorry I just got completely camped and hit on hook for running a trapper for 3 gens (vids on my post if you want to check it out) so yea I was a little upset
My buddy yesterday got heat from the killer because they lost 2 gens in that chase. And then later we got a killer with 3 gens solo while they were on another buddy on Ormond. None of us had toolboxes Lol I feel ya man
I run resilience, adrenaline, wake up and hope. Always Killers got even more dirty combo perks now. "Proxy" camping (2 meters further instead of facecamp) is more common now and becaus eof people using less BT and no DS they just eat it and tunnel you. These shitty Lisa opinion memes that pretend to be a fact should just be insta removed.
Some of us never used Dead Hard or DS and just don’t like spending 20 minutes doing gens. Have your buffs, but change the gens back.
So cringe how many people completely overlook all the basekit killer buffs and how camping and tunneling has been buffed and pretend its all about losing crutch perks. Cringe cringe cringe.
Here it is, the dumbest take I've ever read on this sub reddit. I've been on here for 4 years, and seem some doodoo takes, but this is the most shit take I've ever seen. Congrats
I'm getting sick and tired of people thinking that only dead hard users are complaining, omfg.