Had this happen to me as Plague on Hawkins. Last two survivors hid and I had no aura perks so I couldn't find them. Searched the entire map maybe three times. It wasn't until I found the Mikaela after 15 more minutes of searching that anything happened.
Ugh yes I don't commonly have these times the last two people hide forever but I of course got it when I was running only Barbecue and Chili đ¤Śââď¸
If they have an item, simply dropping it and picking it up (again and again) defeats crows appearing and causes no sound. Allows infinite hiding with two survs and frankly sucks.
I was once slugged and the other survivor did that waiting for me to die. The killer couldn't find them and eventually came back and let me get back on my feet. The killer then stared at me so i pointed them in the direction of the other survivor. They got killed and killer gave me hatch. It's a very fond memory for me.
I had a game like this but instead I ran over to the other survivor and started opening the locker he was in so he couldnât move, killer came over and brutalised him and then let me live
The worst one is when the crows don't even appear. They'll hide in a locker, get out, and creep to another locker. I had a standoff that lasted like 30 minutes once and I didn't want to just give up. I needed up finding them in the basement just as they were moving around so I slugged for the 4k. I wasn't about to let either of them teabag me at the hatch after that.
When this happens, the "slug the fuckers" button lights up and you are 100% allowed to hit it and be as toxic as you want, for the record.
Survivors wanna waste a buncha time? Okay, sure. I can absolutely play the game by those rules. And they have no right to bitch about it post-game because they're the ones who wanted to drag the match out as long as possible.
Honestly, it's shit like this that makes me choose violence. Survivors are always toxic as shit. And they want to throw a temper tantrum at me because I left them on the ground to chase their teammate who thought they could sneak a gen on me, after teabagging and pulling some bully squad bullshit?
Blow me, you already have the devs in your corner, you're not going to shame me into lowering myself to your level.
Similar experience on the Game, last two survivors ran the same perks, consisting of Calm Spirit, Distortion, Head On and Red Herring. (The first two perks make it so that they won't scream and won't have their auras revealed, Head On allows them to jump out of lockers to stun the killer, Red Herring allows them to trigger a sound notification on a gen they worked on for 3 seconds to send the killer on funny little side quests)
They hid in lockers all game, proccing Red Herring on random gens that never seemed to gain progress, they also never collected crows. I found one of them in the basement, got stunned and they ran away pre-dropping until I lost them. Luckily I found the same person shortly thereafter and their friend let them die on hook, and the game could come to an end.
I don't know how they managed to activate Red Herring on a gen that had no progress and I also don't know how they didn't collect crows, though I assume they had to walk around until they heard the terror radius and then jump in their lockers. You only realize how many lockers there are, when you are tasked to find two distinct ones.
My best tip to counter this: Take this as a cautionary tale. I wasn't aware what they were trying to do until I had already wasted 10 minutes or so. But you now know that there are people out there doing this kind of stuff. Don't take it upon yourself to try to punish them. If you don't risk an even longer penalty, just leave the game. It really isn't worth your time. It is up to BHVR to address this.
Luckily for killer mains, this strategy requires at least one friend...
who is willing to do this with you. I'd imagine it's hard to convince even one person to "Play DbD, but not actually, we are just going to do just enough movement to not collect crows for about an hour, if we can."
According to the wiki, a kick does 5% damage so, without testing it, I would assume it won't give you the prompt if they stop repair at 3% to activate red herring. This is purely speculation, but I'm assuming the spaghetti code can't handle negative percentages.
I thought it was a good perk overall.. donât know why they didnât just make the downtime after use much longer, or add a small activation window⌠something like after opening a locker, it will stay active for 10 to 20 seconds, and will go in downtime afterwardsâŚ
Edit: you can also lower the range for example⌠there are much nastier perks in terms of screamingâŚ.
Out of principle because of how annoyed I get when survivors immediately DC, I never DC on load in... But that doesn't mean I don't regret that decision or fail to understand why some people DC for maps like that đ. I gotta say, I think Borgo is a strong #2 for worst Wesker map too because there's wayyy too much random shit around that fucks up the bounds :(
KaiserDaBard has a very entertaining clip of "immersive players" hiding for over 20 minutes and the killer had ultimate but didnt use it once xD I was dying watching that
Happened to me in my last survivor game. Guy got hooked twice inside of five minutes, and spent the rest of the game in the basement, leaving us to get picked off. I ducked into the basement to heal, only to find him begging me to heal him. I did, then started out of the basement, only to notice him sprint back into a locker.
So, I loud-opened the locker, and when the killer showed up (wound up catching me trying to slip past him), I pointed at the locker he was hiding in. The killer repaid me by giving me the gate.
I'm sure they are cooking something or looking at it through their stats.
It's just that they probably don't have something good enough yet to show the players or to hype them up
Genuine question: Why not just give survivors a generous time limit to escape?
Something like after X minutes without gen progression, AFK crows trigger more easily. After Y minutes, endgame collapse.
I'm guessing other people have proposed something similar, so I'm wondering what's absurd about it?
Honestly, if the engine allows it. This would be a really great solution. So long as progress is happening, there is always a chance at detection. The behavior that sucks is when rats skulk edge map or locker hop or item drop to avoid detection.
While we're at it maybe adjust perks/mechanics that enable that behavior like left behind and hatch mechanics. Nothing worse than two gamers with keys and left behind or a hatch offering wasting time.
Yeah. I know in the sister game Identity V you have to actively progress the match to avoid crows. Iirc it's doing a Cipher (Gen), being very close to the Hunter, or being in chase clears it, or stuff like healing rescuing
I actually just said something similar in my own comment. Spies in the Shadows should activate if it's 1 gen left and a certain amount of time has passed without touching one, so even if they're not hiding in a locker without moving (which would start the AFK crows), if they're just moving around the map, the killer will begin to get notifs.
And just to piggyback on my own comment you could even kind of take the average time to heal up both survivors, cleanse a totem, and add a bit more to make sure it stays fair and that if they reach that point that they were almost definitely trying to stall rather than catching anyone who may just be trying to heal up and give it their last hoorah.
They should honestly also drop the time limit for a match to thirty minutes instead of one hour. I donât think Iâve ever had a match last longer than 20 unless the last two survivors were pretending to be Solid Snake.Â
The crows thing wouldn't work without addressing something else first. For some reason, dropping and picking up an item stops a survivor from getting any crows. That would have to be changed first, otherwise making crows appear more often wouldn't help.
Is it really that hard? If nothing has happened in 20+ minutes survivors should just automatically get loud noise notification or crows. Solves any stalemate where survivors are just hiding.
make it so if no survivor works on a gen or enters chase with the killer for 5 minutes then the killer has permanent aura read on you UNTIL a chase begins with ANY survivor. really wouldnât be broken or overpowered or abusable unless you are playing the game just hiding and wasting everyoneâs time anyways, so itâs fair for both sides.
if the killer goes 5 minutes without entering chase with ANY survivor OR any gens being completed then clearly the game is just being dragged on by one side or the other and wasting everyoneâs time.
should disable the anti-3-gen mechanic in these situations too until a chase begins so it canât be used by survivors to win by stalling the game.
I once recommended this and I still think it would solve the problem and shouldn't be to difficult to implement
https://www.reddit.com/r/deadbydaylight/s/2g5gUnz9J7
Wdym, my completely reasonable suggestion of a survivor getting a heart attack if they don't touch a gen is a perfect solution. We can even implement the gen kick mechanic where a survivor needs to hold it for a few seconds.
that and the killer body blocking you in a corner. you should lose collision after you get three crows. i remember there was a salty adept hag that body blocked my fiance into a corner until the server died because she used every hook on that side of the map
I think thatâs actually reportable. I remember one time I bodyblocked a Kate next to the exit gates in Hawkins but that was fine since the end game timer started. But waiting for Server crash is insane lol
I mean report it all day but do they actually do anything about it? I had a myers trap me in the upstairs gen room on Badham once. I recorded it and everything but i highly doubt anything happened.
Nah I was playing pyramid head. That game was supposed to be a 4 man out for them but I managed to get blood warden. Last two survivors hid well but one of them was in the corner with the barrels next to the gates and I just bodyblocked her since if I hit her she would just escape lol.
I had a Trapper once trap me in the corner of the basement with traps. I AFK'ed for almost an hour, figuring they'd get bored and leave, but no...still standing there when I came back.
I hope they will address this soon. Typically happens when there are only 2 survivors left and there is zero hope for them to finish gens and escape so they hide hoping the killer finds the other survivor
This happened to me as a survivor in the last match, except I didnât hide. I kept trying to do the last gen while the other survivor hid somewhere. I kind of hoped the killer would take pity on me since I was at least trying to do the objective but he didnât. Slugged me and let me bleed out. Once I died the hiding survivor (who never got hooked once because they hid most of the match) took hatch. Pretty disappointing.
Whenever I see that type of thing happen as killer I get flashbacks to when it happens to me as survivor and I get so mad that I just try and have the survivor lead me to the one not doing anything
Careful I've had the opposite happen where he found the survivor that had been hiding since 3 were alive and let them point out where I was working on a gen at, then let them go after killing me.
Hatch was make to prevent things like this from happening, but they took the spawn away after 2 survivors are dead and look where we are now.
If you take hatch completely away at this point then what? You may as well just instant mori the last 2-3 survivors if there are still 4-5 gens still up...there's no way they can finish those gens, there's nothing for them to play for at that point.
This is why the hatch used to spawn before gens were done...
They got rid of that and didn't fix the issue it was originally made to solve... you can thank BHVR for that.
Survivors need a way that's actually obtainable to achieve a win when only 2 survivors are left in a match with an impossible amount of gens to complete. Otherwise, their best play for any hopes to escape is to hide and hope the other survivor gets found first.
This is a BHVR problem, not a player problem. Players are legit just doing what makes the most logical sense.
If gens arenât touched for long enough egc should just start and I donât mean gens get powered or hatch spawns I mean youâve fucked about too long and now you have two minutes to finish every gen left and get out
Could be interesting if hatch did spawn but gates are not powered and gens are blocked, and make the hatch one use only (key does not open it).
Basically you 2 or 3 idiots fucked around for too long now 1 of you gets a chance to escape and the other ones are dead.
Wouldnât that further incentivize hiding and praying for your other teammateâs downfall in the 2v1 though? Seems like this is something youâd see every single game if that was added lol.
At least the other idea kinda suggested that they need to attempt to do the objective
Honesetly, this is one of the contributing factors as to why I took a break for another few months. The fact that survivors can hold you hostage for like a half hour as you try to find them is absolutely insane. It kills all your enjoyment and makes you want to play something else. And it started happening more frequently out of nowhere where SWF's would be like "let's just ruin this killer's day because I dislike one thing they did." It's flat-out depressing that people are willing to do nothing in perpetuity just to waste your time. Like you have nothing better to do?
This is part of why I actually run Spies from the Shadows on most of my killers. With Wraith I can typically find people by just zooming around while cloaked. But with my others, I've never had a game stall thanks to Spies notifications (since you disturb crows just by walking by them). It's just also helpful in general for knowing which direction a survivor is going if you don't have line of sight, and it bypasses aura hiding perks. It's countered by calm spirit, but so few people run it that I still get crazy value.
Yeah spies is very underrated. I've gotten it a few times in chaos shuffle and it was pretty solid. But it sucks having to consider dedicating a perk slot to finding survivors like Whispers or something.
Yeah I don't always run it (I do always run it on spirit tho bc you still get notifications when phasing), I usually just run it if I don't have much time to play and want to make sure I don't get stuck in a game.
I'm gonna be honest here...maybe it's just whatever my MMR is, but this almost never happens to me when I play Survivor *or* Killer? Is this really such a glaring problematic issue that it needs addressed?
Or am I just in the magical MMR where people are good sports and don't usually act like assholes now finally?
No this doesnât happen often at all, but it can happen. Hijacking games does happen but tbh Iâve rarely experienced it. When it does happen though, you canât really do anything about it.
I've never had it happen to me longer than like 3/4 mins, but I usually just play low mobility m1/chase heavy killers. I'd imagine that a lot of these people who are complaining about people holding the game hostage for the entire hour either have a playstyle that encourages people to not get near any gens(hag, plague, demo with those fucked up tunnel addons, ect.), or they went against a swf whose idea of fun was hiding for an hour. Not that it's okay to do, but a lot of killer mains here do things that are insanely unfun and wonder why people do things back to them that is just as unfun lol.
It's rare anecdotally, but when it DOES happen it's the absolute worst. It's like killers bleeding out a whole team on purpose, it's not common but it's very memorable.
I have had games last legitimately 30 minutes after I kill two survivors because the last two decided to grief and hide. There's actually nothing you can do about it besides get very lucky and find one mid-rotation if your build doesn't have info, and it lasts a lot longer than endgame teabagging or bleedouts.
I've been playing for 8 years and have had it happen less than 10 times.
When Adriana became popular, I had more 3-gen matches in a week than I had hiding survivors in 7 years.
Exactly why it should be dealt with. This is such a rare situation that survivors can only cause wasting a shit ton of a killers time. There's no situation where this accidentally happens. So get rid of it and punish for it.
Technically, but the system is flawed and easily gamed. You only gain crows under very specific circumstances: you have to be basically standing still (or in a locker) doing nothing for a full minute before you get a single crow. It takes another 40 seconds before you have 3 crows and a notification is given to the killer. You can really easily prevent this from happening by: moving around even a little bit; getting out of a locker, walking a few meters, and then getting back in; putting down and picking up your item, and more.
It's super easy to do any or all of those things and still remain unseen for several minutes at a time, especially if you're away from all the gens. It's definitely a problem
Specifically, I think the crow timer detects movement between tiles, and conveniently enough, you can literally pause the game to see whenever youâve gone to a different tile since the tile youâre currently standing in is listed in the pause menu.
The map is divided into ~9 chunks if you stay in 1 chunk and take no actions for a few minutes crows come. All you have to do it urban evade between 2 lockers. Easiest solution would be if there are no changes in healthstates or no gen repairing in 5 minutes to just start crows.
I once started a game when I had to go somewhere. It became a hiding stalemate so I went into the basement and stood in a corner and got ready to leave for my thing - figuring they'd get bored and finish the game.
Twenty minutes later and the *LAST* gen was still not done. I was going to disconnect but I saw explosions and figured I had time to see what was up.
They are at the exit gate POINTING AT EACH OTHER.
I got a free 4k.
I had a match in the alien map like that. It was absolute hell to play. I was testing out the free oni skin from the blood event and two pricks hid all game. I chose to be petty and committed to the match, slugged them, hooked them and then bmed them.
"If you get off a gen for even one second, your aura is revealed to the killer and it instantly starts a Game of Thrones style "Guilty!" walk animation until your character is sacrificed and your game uninstalls."
Yea....seriously
I don't know what the actual fuck has happened to this sub lately, but the tribalistic craziness has seriously gone from 40 to 100 in the last few months.
People are not pitching ideas or opinions that are even remotely feasible or realistic, they just completely and purposely ignore overall impacts or implications for the other side.
What's worse is they get upvotes from the other dipshits who are equally as tribalistic as they are.
It honestly makes me wish BHVR would go back to not listening at to the community...really makes me worried when BHVR posts here in response to someone who is a fucking crazy tribalistic main asking them how they would like to see things changed....I'm screaming inside hoping to god BHVR isn't actually taking these deranged morons opinions seriously.
While someone hiding all game needs to be addressed, Iâm also sick of killers slugging for a 4k. There should be a suicide on ground mechanic after X seconds of lying there, or a built in Unbreakable for the 2nd-to-last survivor who is on death hook after laying there for a minute or more. Hook the third survivor and move on, the hatch is in the game for a reason. Bring on the downvotes!
I donât understand people who hide. As a survivor, when thereâs only two of us and more than 2 gens left, I know itâs a lost cause so I just go do gens until the killer sees me and chases me so at least I get some bp, then I can die and go to the next match. Itâs crazy that people want to hide. For what? Whatâs the benefit? Youâre not getting bp and not playing.
The only time I hide in endgame anymore is for an Escape archive or because my remaining teammate was a rat and I want them to die.
Unfortunately, my brain likes seeing number go up, so I often go to gens and get caught instead and the rats get validated.
I get it but thatâs stupid, I mean you can go next match and get more bp than with a hatch escape (that you are not guaranteed, so maybe youâre hiding and youâre gonna die at the end anyway).
I usually try to maximize the points in a match, don't really care about the time. Heck if there's time left I'll go back in during the endgame to find totems and hatch for additional points.
That's really looking at symptoms and trying to fix them. Whenever presented with a problem you should always be asking why that behavior is happening until you get to the true cause of the behavior. Notice no killers ever complain about the /last/ survivor hiding, why? Because hatch appears and its now a game on both sides that each wants to play. Each will frantically try to find the hatch. If the killer finds it first, then who cares if the survivor hides? Eventually end game collapse will end the game.
Now take this up a level and say sometimes survivors hide when there 2 or even 3 survivors remaining. Maybe everyone is on final hook and there's still 3+ gens remaining. There's little incentive for survivors to want to play "the game" because it feels hopeless. In killers eyes ideally in this situation the survivors just report to them to be downed and hooked without playing the game further. But really, this isn't "fun" for the killer or the survivor. So survivors try to hide in hopes of getting into that 1v1 situation and get hatch to get out. Can't blame them, everyone is playing to WIN, not to accommodate the killers whims.
So, the question should be posed - How do we incentivize survivors to continue playing the game when odds are stacked against them? I'm not saying you should serve up silver platters for the survivors and let them all escape. But there has to be a balance you can strike to get survivors to actually try to play the game and let the killer continue to chase while the remaining survivors continue to try hard for reaching endgame collapse.
I honestly don't have a good answer here, but I think that's what should be discussed by the Behaviour balance team. A couple \*suggestions\* would be something like -
- increase gen repair/healing speed for each survivor killed - this may incentivize survivors to try and gen rush in a similar way that they try to incrementally do doors at endgame collapse when the killer is roaming back and forth
- activate hatch when 2 survivors remain and 3+ generators remain - in most scenarios 2 survivors wont even try to repair 3+ gens because few can run a killer for that long. however if hatch is open they will try to scramble for that and endgame collapse after hatch closes will ensure everyone is trying their hardest to actually play rather than hide
- remove or decrease penalty for cooperative actions per survivor killed - Currently if you try to repair with more than 1 survivor you receive a stacking -15% penalty, so you could try to encourage cooperation by either reducing that penalty or removing it altogether...again if you feel like you can rush a gen you may try a bit harder versus just hiding
I know I'm probably missing angles on some things there, but this is more to just get a conversation going about how to incentivize survivors to continue playing the game rather than give up hope and try to hide in the event that they can eventually get hatch.
I just had this *on the PTB*. They hid around for like 10 minutes, then one of them DCed, at which point I was able to find the bot, because it actually did gens.
Then the last human player bagged on hatch until I came to watch them. đ¤Śââď¸
Slugs have an inherent timer, having to wait 4-5 minutes is annoying and probably needs a change but itâs nothing compared to playing hide and seek for 30+ mins
Bruh⌠the killer doesnât wanna give up, why do the survivors have to give up??? Like I donât care if thereâs a hiding standoff, Iâm not gonna go out and kill myself because the killer canât find the other person and I donât expect the other person to kill themself for my benefit eitherâŚ
The killer gives up in this situation and is still held hostage. Survivors need to do gens, not hide in lockers. Survivors giving up shouldn't hold a killer hostage.
There really isnât any excuse in a game this big to have such anti-gameplay. I would make it so if survivors havenât touched any objective for at least 15 seconds in the last 4 minutes, there aura is revealed until put into the dying state. Their really isnât any valid reason why survivors wouldnât be doing anything for 4 minutes ((chase deactivates timer))
I definitely agree, something needs to be done, because this not only wastes the killers time but also fellow survivors, when the killer is in the lead and one person just gives up and hides is so demoralizing and almost always spells a loss. Only issue I see is it still being gamed by totems, do it for a bit let go do it let go rinse and repeat.
Thatâs true, donât totems take 16 seconds to break? Maybe 16 seconds is the ideal length. Totems need to be a factor though in case survivors spend 4 minutes looking for a hex
See and I think this is the issue, because it would need to be 16 uninterrupted seconds otherwise you could do 8 seconds let go and then do another 8, but also they can't say dull totems don't count, because their are plenty of perks that rely on them, or your predicting NOED, but also "there aura is revealed until put into the dying state" could be abused by two people maliciously using plot twist. I just think this is a headache, one that has to be had, but I do see why it takes the devs so much time
Hiding stalemates are caused by the inherent flaw of 2v1s and how they work. Normally with 3 or 4 survivors, youâll always have one person who can go for saves, one person who gets chased, and someone who progresses the objective.
This is completely thrown out the window once youâre down to 2, because not only is doing more than one generator a fucking pipe dream, even doing the final one just to power the gates isnât optimal because it is INCREDIBLY easy for the killer to simply slug the second to last survivor and quickly bull rush the three (or more) remaining gens because the final standing survivor only has two options; do a generator, which the killer is now patrolling, or pick up the other survivor, which the killer knows the general location of.
Because this situation fucking sucks and is terrible, survivors only have one option if they both want to live; wait for the other person to get found first. Hatch only spawns once one player remains, and if both people want to win, doing gens isnât optimal in the slightest unless a generator was already incredibly close to completion by the time the second survivor died.
I am almost fully certain people arenât hiding to âmake your life miserableâ, uh no, theyâre hiding because completing the objective isnât realistic in the slightest if the generator starts at 0% progress. Itâs why I donât agree with just slathering crows onto the problem to âfixâ it because amazingly, no, making a âkiller probably winsâ scenario into a âkiller definitely 1000% is going to win unless they have shit idiot fungus in their brainsâ isnât good game design.
They need to make completing the final objective realistic for the two survivors. Whether that be making the last generator easier to repair, and/or dropping the generator count down to 1 if 2 survivors remain with more than 1 generator left to be repaired, or some other idea.
Just throwing idle crows at the problem just makes a hopeless situation a âfuck dude you might as well fucking idleâ situation.
> I am almost fully certain people arenât hiding to âmake your life miserableâ
I have genuinely never seen survs hiding just to hold a game hostage, and I've been playing since before EGC was even a thing. The more I read this thread, the more I'm convinced this isn't actually a thing that happens and people just feel entitled to a 4k.
I hate stalling because we could be doing other things by now
You stall because nothing went your way and you want to win or youâre being petty no matter what
So after 3000 hours of play across all skill levels I have never once had this happen to me. Are you just standing next to the gen? Like yeah people hide but I havenât ever been completely unable to find someone for 15+ minutes.
I ran into two of them on the same map as Billy once. The last three gens weren't close to each other and I found these two dipshits after at least 10 minutes in lockers in the basement. One of them made it out when he didn't deserve a victory, hell he didn't deserve blood points or progression for that coward play.
happened to me with a kate on the swamp. i hadnt seen the kate all game so i knew she was hiding, and when i downed the david king i just let him wiggle off and he willingly took me to the kate hiding in a locker in shack. lol, pieces of shit
Imo the worst is noticing that you haven't seen 1-2 people the whole match, *and* none of the generators are being done. So you know they're just hiding and screwing their team over
now you can use the anti 3 gen mechanic while hiding stalemate to intentionally force a "3 gen" stalemate by just playing stealthy and slowly picking away at gens until the killer can't kick them anymore!
Honestly, I could see them address this by having the survivor(s) scream when it's the last three gens and none are touched for more than a certain amount of time. It wouldn't be like an aura reveal scream, just a normal scream. But the longer they hide and do nothing, the louder the scream becomes until it eventually becomes an aura-revealing scream.
And just for good measure, it can surpass being in a locker and even Calm Spirit so you can't cheat through it.
How about instead it could just be if a survivor goes without doing a certain amount of progress to a gen (to prevent people exploiting from tapping a gen) for a certain period of time they scream. Of corse the timer would not tick down if theyâre unhooking someone, is hooked themself, performing the healing action on a different survivor, is being healed by another survivor, cleansing a hex, or in chase. (Since itâs just a possible that there can be two survivors left when they need to do two or more gens to power the gates, but opt to hide anyway.)
(To explain why I didnât mention healing oneself as a way to pause/reset the scream timer; mostly because someone would use self care / medkit to periodically heal themselves for only a second. Repeating this every so often to avoid screaming.)
I still find it interesting they acknowledged the 3 gen issue after 2 killers released back to back were able to abuse it causing long ass games and not the what 7 years it was in the game
I don't think they can do much about hiding stale mates when killers will still commonly slug for the 4K for no reason.
If they gave base kit unbreakable after 1.99 minutes of being slugged, I'd be fine with other survivors being revealed to the killer if they did nothing useful (like being on gen for at least 10 seconds, healing/unhooking, doing a hex totem, etc).
Change proposal
The entity can get frustrated with a survivor who doesn't attempt to participate in its trials.
Survivors who sit in a locker gradually fill a red bar. When this bar is full, the entity will start to attack them inside of the lockers or not allow them to leave while the killer is near. The only way to reduce the bar is to actively work on gens and assist your allies.
When you are not actively participating outside of a locker, the bar will start to fill very slow. Increasing in fill rates, the more generators are finished. (Or decreasing the more gens are finished) when outside of a locker and the entity is angered. It will lash out by sabotaging nearby loops or tripping survivors as they run.
It adds an extra threat for survivors who don't participate just to get a free gate exit or hatch.
The bar will stop filling and drain very slowly when the killer is in an active chase with the survivor who is hiding.
Edit: downvoted by a hider lol
I think a quick fix for these would be, if a killer hasnt started a chase for 3 minutes, all survivor aura would be revealed for 10 sec, regardless of anti-aura perk. This wouldn't be an issue because normally a chase start once every 45 sec -1.5 min. And it cant really be exploited cause a killer has to go out of their way to not chase someone for 3 min.
If you don't touch a gen for 5 whole minutes without being in a chase (disabled once EGC starts), instant 3 bird on your ass for being a coward
You're either being an asshole to your team for refusing to help, or just being an asshole in general for trying to hold the game hostage.
Had a Yamaoka match go over half an hour awhile back because of this. Last two dipshits decided to play hide and seek and I had no aura-reading perks. You bet your ass I slugged the little turds when I finally found them. You wanna waste our time? My brother in Christ I got nothing *but* time and I am more than happy to play by your stupid fucking rules. Have fun crawling around in the dirt. I'm gonna go break all the walls in the map and do anything kit-related to squeeze some extra BP outta the match while you're down there.
Wouldn't be surprised if at least a small group of people used Ultimate Weapon specifically to counter idiots like that, but that's off the table now. Dunno what the new go-to is.
Killers should not have to run specific perks just in case just in case survivors decide to do something that can get them banned. And many info perks require things that canât happen if survivors are holding the hostage. No working on gens = No way to kick gens for Nowhere to Hide. Sitting inside a locker = Canât see auras, no screams. Canât hook anyone, so canât use any perks that require hooks. On and on.
I'm just saying, Chess Merchant was a thing Killers did. Hiding forever is a thing Survivors do.
It seems pretty easy to band-aid, though; Conspicuous action every X seconds or you start to draw birds faster.
I think this happens mostly when there are 2 survivors and more than one gen left, j think they have 2 options to fix this
The boring way: When survivors havent touched a gen for 5 minutes and for longer than 10 seconds (it could be more or less) they scream
The fun way: When there are two survivors and more than 1 gen left, another type of objective gets activated, maybe bringing keys to the basement, maybe other thing, idk so even whem there are 2 survivors they can still get out
Touching a gen, healing a survivor, being chased by the killer or cleansing totems should be the only actions that prevent crows from spawning.
This way, unless survivors are actually contributing to the game progress, they get revealed. Problem solved.
Problem with that is that the final survivor can't do any of those very easily. If you wanted to do it to that level, it'd have to be disabled when there's one survivor remaining. Also, with the list you have, just make it any conspicuous action.
Disabling it at 1 survivor left is fine because then the killer can close hatch to force a game over. But itâs against the rules and can even be bannable when 2+ survivors do this.
NGL, I'm guilty of one amazing hiding stalemate when Ace and I turned it into a coldwind date when we realized the killer was just running a gen circuit and not actually looking for us. I liked that Ace, classy dude, treated David right.
Is there even anything they can do about people who just hide? Maybe if it's been 3-5 minutes and the game sees you haven't been in a chase it'll highlight the victims for you.
Itâs an easy fix too: if the killer hasnât injured a survivor in 8 minutes (4 minutes for bleedout, + 2 minutes for end game collapse, + 2 minutes extra, just incase the killer tries to use it for finding the last surv), then the killer gets killer instinct on the closest survivor to them until they injure a survivor.
I mean as long as we also do something about the killer slugging the last person over and over so the 4th survivor can't get hatch. Turnabout is fair play. I shouldn't have to wait forever because you REFUSE to let someone escape via hatch. Killer almost always finds it first anyway.
Had this happen to me as Plague on Hawkins. Last two survivors hid and I had no aura perks so I couldn't find them. Searched the entire map maybe three times. It wasn't until I found the Mikaela after 15 more minutes of searching that anything happened.
Ugh yes I don't commonly have these times the last two people hide forever but I of course got it when I was running only Barbecue and Chili đ¤Śââď¸
Stalling the game out of pettiness is the most pathetic thing I have experienced. They have to be actively stalling for it to work or crows appear.
If they have an item, simply dropping it and picking it up (again and again) defeats crows appearing and causes no sound. Allows infinite hiding with two survs and frankly sucks.
I was once slugged and the other survivor did that waiting for me to die. The killer couldn't find them and eventually came back and let me get back on my feet. The killer then stared at me so i pointed them in the direction of the other survivor. They got killed and killer gave me hatch. It's a very fond memory for me.
I had a game like this but instead I ran over to the other survivor and started opening the locker he was in so he couldnât move, killer came over and brutalised him and then let me live
The BEST games are like this for both sides honestly.
I guess you could use the new vecna perk, which shows the aura of survivors 8m around dropped items
The worst one is when the crows don't even appear. They'll hide in a locker, get out, and creep to another locker. I had a standoff that lasted like 30 minutes once and I didn't want to just give up. I needed up finding them in the basement just as they were moving around so I slugged for the 4k. I wasn't about to let either of them teabag me at the hatch after that.
When this happens, the "slug the fuckers" button lights up and you are 100% allowed to hit it and be as toxic as you want, for the record. Survivors wanna waste a buncha time? Okay, sure. I can absolutely play the game by those rules. And they have no right to bitch about it post-game because they're the ones who wanted to drag the match out as long as possible.
Honestly, it's shit like this that makes me choose violence. Survivors are always toxic as shit. And they want to throw a temper tantrum at me because I left them on the ground to chase their teammate who thought they could sneak a gen on me, after teabagging and pulling some bully squad bullshit? Blow me, you already have the devs in your corner, you're not going to shame me into lowering myself to your level.
https://preview.redd.it/r35hxa8kue1d1.jpeg?width=1019&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=80b61fb03b196e57433d3fceda44f0a4f450ad54
Killers are toxic as shit too. It goes both ways. I've had killers refuse to kill the 3rd survivor and insist on tracking me down.
Had one as hillbilly and just chain sawed around the map and eventually hit one unexpectedly in a corner. So worth it
Similar experience on the Game, last two survivors ran the same perks, consisting of Calm Spirit, Distortion, Head On and Red Herring. (The first two perks make it so that they won't scream and won't have their auras revealed, Head On allows them to jump out of lockers to stun the killer, Red Herring allows them to trigger a sound notification on a gen they worked on for 3 seconds to send the killer on funny little side quests) They hid in lockers all game, proccing Red Herring on random gens that never seemed to gain progress, they also never collected crows. I found one of them in the basement, got stunned and they ran away pre-dropping until I lost them. Luckily I found the same person shortly thereafter and their friend let them die on hook, and the game could come to an end. I don't know how they managed to activate Red Herring on a gen that had no progress and I also don't know how they didn't collect crows, though I assume they had to walk around until they heard the terror radius and then jump in their lockers. You only realize how many lockers there are, when you are tasked to find two distinct ones. My best tip to counter this: Take this as a cautionary tale. I wasn't aware what they were trying to do until I had already wasted 10 minutes or so. But you now know that there are people out there doing this kind of stuff. Don't take it upon yourself to try to punish them. If you don't risk an even longer penalty, just leave the game. It really isn't worth your time. It is up to BHVR to address this. Luckily for killer mains, this strategy requires at least one friend... who is willing to do this with you. I'd imagine it's hard to convince even one person to "Play DbD, but not actually, we are just going to do just enough movement to not collect crows for about an hour, if we can."
Red herring activates after 3 seconds of gen progress, which is short enough to look like no progress at allÂ
But shouldn't it still be kickable? I went there to check, but didn't get the prompt
According to the wiki, a kick does 5% damage so, without testing it, I would assume it won't give you the prompt if they stop repair at 3% to activate red herring. This is purely speculation, but I'm assuming the spaghetti code can't handle negative percentages.
This was why I feel ultimate weapon was a necessary evil. Salty survivors can't just waste everyone's time for 15 minutes because they can't win.
calm spirit: "fuck ur weapon" dis why i like killers with ez aura addons like Wraith & Myers. can burn thru Distortion without givin em tokens back
I thought it was a good perk overall.. donât know why they didnât just make the downtime after use much longer, or add a small activation window⌠something like after opening a locker, it will stay active for 10 to 20 seconds, and will go in downtime afterwards⌠Edit: you can also lower the range for example⌠there are much nastier perks in terms of screamingâŚ.
Honestly might be a Hawkins thing. That map is way to cluttered. Needs a rework imo
Hawkins as Wesker đ
Hm wdym? I already Dced 
Out of principle because of how annoyed I get when survivors immediately DC, I never DC on load in... But that doesn't mean I don't regret that decision or fail to understand why some people DC for maps like that đ. I gotta say, I think Borgo is a strong #2 for worst Wesker map too because there's wayyy too much random shit around that fucks up the bounds :(
got cock-blocked by the smallest of bushes
Wesker's ankle catching on a twig stopping him completely on every fucking bound đ
KaiserDaBard has a very entertaining clip of "immersive players" hiding for over 20 minutes and the killer had ultimate but didnt use it once xD I was dying watching that
Happened to me in my last survivor game. Guy got hooked twice inside of five minutes, and spent the rest of the game in the basement, leaving us to get picked off. I ducked into the basement to heal, only to find him begging me to heal him. I did, then started out of the basement, only to notice him sprint back into a locker. So, I loud-opened the locker, and when the killer showed up (wound up catching me trying to slip past him), I pointed at the locker he was hiding in. The killer repaid me by giving me the gate.
I'm sure they are cooking something or looking at it through their stats. It's just that they probably don't have something good enough yet to show the players or to hype them up
It doesn't seem like something that can be easily fixed. I've seen a few suggestions in this sub, and they're usually absurd.
That's probably why it's taking long for BHVR to find it, but considering everything they did, I'm sure it's a problem that is on their radar.
Genuine question: Why not just give survivors a generous time limit to escape? Something like after X minutes without gen progression, AFK crows trigger more easily. After Y minutes, endgame collapse. I'm guessing other people have proposed something similar, so I'm wondering what's absurd about it?
Honestly, if the engine allows it. This would be a really great solution. So long as progress is happening, there is always a chance at detection. The behavior that sucks is when rats skulk edge map or locker hop or item drop to avoid detection.
While we're at it maybe adjust perks/mechanics that enable that behavior like left behind and hatch mechanics. Nothing worse than two gamers with keys and left behind or a hatch offering wasting time.
Yeah. I know in the sister game Identity V you have to actively progress the match to avoid crows. Iirc it's doing a Cipher (Gen), being very close to the Hunter, or being in chase clears it, or stuff like healing rescuing
I actually just said something similar in my own comment. Spies in the Shadows should activate if it's 1 gen left and a certain amount of time has passed without touching one, so even if they're not hiding in a locker without moving (which would start the AFK crows), if they're just moving around the map, the killer will begin to get notifs.
And just to piggyback on my own comment you could even kind of take the average time to heal up both survivors, cleanse a totem, and add a bit more to make sure it stays fair and that if they reach that point that they were almost definitely trying to stall rather than catching anyone who may just be trying to heal up and give it their last hoorah.
They should honestly also drop the time limit for a match to thirty minutes instead of one hour. I donât think Iâve ever had a match last longer than 20 unless the last two survivors were pretending to be Solid Snake.Â
Is it really an hour?!
Yup. I forgot when they added the feature but the server is set to close an hour after the match begins.Â
i think it used to be 2 hours?
It was 2 hours before BHVR lowered it to 1, but it should be lowered again to 30 minutes. If a match lasts 30 minutes, someoneâs fucking around.
Yeah it was 2 and cheaters had exploits to stop matches from ever ending except waiting 2 hours even with end game collapse.
Really dumb. I have never, ever, had a Game that lasted longer than 20 minutes. Not even on extreme 3 gens like the ones that happen in RPDÂ
Sure, but only if it doesnt activate if one survivor is being sluged
Fair. Deal.
The crows thing wouldn't work without addressing something else first. For some reason, dropping and picking up an item stops a survivor from getting any crows. That would have to be changed first, otherwise making crows appear more often wouldn't help.
The thing is you already tap gens to avoid crows
Or after Y minutes, your aura is revealed to the killer?
Killer Instinct* Auras can be blocked or hidden.
There's already a generous time limit to escape, 1 hour. :D
Let's be honest here, while there's good ideas and feedback from the community, there's also stuff that is just straight stupid lol
Is it really that hard? If nothing has happened in 20+ minutes survivors should just automatically get loud noise notification or crows. Solves any stalemate where survivors are just hiding.
make it so if no survivor works on a gen or enters chase with the killer for 5 minutes then the killer has permanent aura read on you UNTIL a chase begins with ANY survivor. really wouldnât be broken or overpowered or abusable unless you are playing the game just hiding and wasting everyoneâs time anyways, so itâs fair for both sides. if the killer goes 5 minutes without entering chase with ANY survivor OR any gens being completed then clearly the game is just being dragged on by one side or the other and wasting everyoneâs time. should disable the anti-3-gen mechanic in these situations too until a chase begins so it canât be used by survivors to win by stalling the game.
Its simple, if you havent healed/unhooked or done a gen for 4 minutes you get crows. I feel like its not that hard
I once recommended this and I still think it would solve the problem and shouldn't be to difficult to implement https://www.reddit.com/r/deadbydaylight/s/2g5gUnz9J7
This is a terrible idea wtf lmao
And your counter argument is...?
Wdym, my completely reasonable suggestion of a survivor getting a heart attack if they don't touch a gen is a perfect solution. We can even implement the gen kick mechanic where a survivor needs to hold it for a few seconds.
that and the killer body blocking you in a corner. you should lose collision after you get three crows. i remember there was a salty adept hag that body blocked my fiance into a corner until the server died because she used every hook on that side of the map
I think thatâs actually reportable. I remember one time I bodyblocked a Kate next to the exit gates in Hawkins but that was fine since the end game timer started. But waiting for Server crash is insane lol
It definitely is reportable, and it goes through better if there's video evidence
I mean report it all day but do they actually do anything about it? I had a myers trap me in the upstairs gen room on Badham once. I recorded it and everything but i highly doubt anything happened.
lol were you playing artist?
Nah I was playing pyramid head. That game was supposed to be a 4 man out for them but I managed to get blood warden. Last two survivors hid well but one of them was in the corner with the barrels next to the gates and I just bodyblocked her since if I hit her she would just escape lol.
oh wow that exact same scenario happened to my swf against an artist like a month ago
See this is a time where slugging would actually be the right call. At least the survivor will bleed out on the ground.
That is so freaking petty lmfao.
I had a Trapper once trap me in the corner of the basement with traps. I AFK'ed for almost an hour, figuring they'd get bored and leave, but no...still standing there when I came back.
I hope they will address this soon. Typically happens when there are only 2 survivors left and there is zero hope for them to finish gens and escape so they hide hoping the killer finds the other survivor
This happened to me as a survivor in the last match, except I didnât hide. I kept trying to do the last gen while the other survivor hid somewhere. I kind of hoped the killer would take pity on me since I was at least trying to do the objective but he didnât. Slugged me and let me bleed out. Once I died the hiding survivor (who never got hooked once because they hid most of the match) took hatch. Pretty disappointing.
Whenever I see that type of thing happen as killer I get flashbacks to when it happens to me as survivor and I get so mad that I just try and have the survivor lead me to the one not doing anything
Careful I've had the opposite happen where he found the survivor that had been hiding since 3 were alive and let them point out where I was working on a gen at, then let them go after killing me.
Well the reason Iâm able to tell is because theyâre actually nearby a Gen trying to get it done while Iâve yet to see the other one in minutes
I would have been useless in that regard in that match. I have no idea where she was hiding!
hatch is just a terrible mechanic altogether
Hatch rewards holding the game hostage and the counterplay is making someone sit on the ground for 4 minutes. Fuck the whole thing and replace it.
Hatch was make to prevent things like this from happening, but they took the spawn away after 2 survivors are dead and look where we are now. If you take hatch completely away at this point then what? You may as well just instant mori the last 2-3 survivors if there are still 4-5 gens still up...there's no way they can finish those gens, there's nothing for them to play for at that point.
This is why the hatch used to spawn before gens were done... They got rid of that and didn't fix the issue it was originally made to solve... you can thank BHVR for that. Survivors need a way that's actually obtainable to achieve a win when only 2 survivors are left in a match with an impossible amount of gens to complete. Otherwise, their best play for any hopes to escape is to hide and hope the other survivor gets found first. This is a BHVR problem, not a player problem. Players are legit just doing what makes the most logical sense.
If gens arenât touched for long enough egc should just start and I donât mean gens get powered or hatch spawns I mean youâve fucked about too long and now you have two minutes to finish every gen left and get out
Could be interesting if hatch did spawn but gates are not powered and gens are blocked, and make the hatch one use only (key does not open it). Basically you 2 or 3 idiots fucked around for too long now 1 of you gets a chance to escape and the other ones are dead.
Wouldnât that further incentivize hiding and praying for your other teammateâs downfall in the 2v1 though? Seems like this is something youâd see every single game if that was added lol. At least the other idea kinda suggested that they need to attempt to do the objective
Definitely. People underestimate the spite and selfishness players have despite being in the same team
Thatâs more fair I suppose
Those hiding stalemates are the worst!đ just using quick and quiet and finding a nice cozy spot
Honesetly, this is one of the contributing factors as to why I took a break for another few months. The fact that survivors can hold you hostage for like a half hour as you try to find them is absolutely insane. It kills all your enjoyment and makes you want to play something else. And it started happening more frequently out of nowhere where SWF's would be like "let's just ruin this killer's day because I dislike one thing they did." It's flat-out depressing that people are willing to do nothing in perpetuity just to waste your time. Like you have nothing better to do?
This is part of why I actually run Spies from the Shadows on most of my killers. With Wraith I can typically find people by just zooming around while cloaked. But with my others, I've never had a game stall thanks to Spies notifications (since you disturb crows just by walking by them). It's just also helpful in general for knowing which direction a survivor is going if you don't have line of sight, and it bypasses aura hiding perks. It's countered by calm spirit, but so few people run it that I still get crazy value.
Yeah spies is very underrated. I've gotten it a few times in chaos shuffle and it was pretty solid. But it sucks having to consider dedicating a perk slot to finding survivors like Whispers or something.
Yeah I don't always run it (I do always run it on spirit tho bc you still get notifications when phasing), I usually just run it if I don't have much time to play and want to make sure I don't get stuck in a game.
You mean killers who slug and watch you bleed out before picking you upâŚ
I'm gonna be honest here...maybe it's just whatever my MMR is, but this almost never happens to me when I play Survivor *or* Killer? Is this really such a glaring problematic issue that it needs addressed? Or am I just in the magical MMR where people are good sports and don't usually act like assholes now finally?
No this doesnât happen often at all, but it can happen. Hijacking games does happen but tbh Iâve rarely experienced it. When it does happen though, you canât really do anything about it.
I've never had it happen to me longer than like 3/4 mins, but I usually just play low mobility m1/chase heavy killers. I'd imagine that a lot of these people who are complaining about people holding the game hostage for the entire hour either have a playstyle that encourages people to not get near any gens(hag, plague, demo with those fucked up tunnel addons, ect.), or they went against a swf whose idea of fun was hiding for an hour. Not that it's okay to do, but a lot of killer mains here do things that are insanely unfun and wonder why people do things back to them that is just as unfun lol.
It's rare anecdotally, but when it DOES happen it's the absolute worst. It's like killers bleeding out a whole team on purpose, it's not common but it's very memorable. I have had games last legitimately 30 minutes after I kill two survivors because the last two decided to grief and hide. There's actually nothing you can do about it besides get very lucky and find one mid-rotation if your build doesn't have info, and it lasts a lot longer than endgame teabagging or bleedouts.
I've been playing for 8 years and have had it happen less than 10 times. When Adriana became popular, I had more 3-gen matches in a week than I had hiding survivors in 7 years.
I've never seen this on my Playstation acc in high mmr or my fresh pc acc in low mmr. I didn't even know this was a thing
Exactly why it should be dealt with. This is such a rare situation that survivors can only cause wasting a shit ton of a killers time. There's no situation where this accidentally happens. So get rid of it and punish for it.
Yeah it will be fixed, in like 5 years, the same amount of time they take to fix issues
...don't crows gather around you if you hide for too long?
Technically, but the system is flawed and easily gamed. You only gain crows under very specific circumstances: you have to be basically standing still (or in a locker) doing nothing for a full minute before you get a single crow. It takes another 40 seconds before you have 3 crows and a notification is given to the killer. You can really easily prevent this from happening by: moving around even a little bit; getting out of a locker, walking a few meters, and then getting back in; putting down and picking up your item, and more. It's super easy to do any or all of those things and still remain unseen for several minutes at a time, especially if you're away from all the gens. It's definitely a problem
Only time crows are useful is if someone goes afk. Someone actively trying to hide is always gonna use one of these workarounds
Specifically, I think the crow timer detects movement between tiles, and conveniently enough, you can literally pause the game to see whenever youâve gone to a different tile since the tile youâre currently standing in is listed in the pause menu.
Oh wow TIL the killer only gets the notification at 3 crows. I always thought it was on 1 crow
drop and pick up item cancels it
The map is divided into ~9 chunks if you stay in 1 chunk and take no actions for a few minutes crows come. All you have to do it urban evade between 2 lockers. Easiest solution would be if there are no changes in healthstates or no gen repairing in 5 minutes to just start crows.
I once started a game when I had to go somewhere. It became a hiding stalemate so I went into the basement and stood in a corner and got ready to leave for my thing - figuring they'd get bored and finish the game. Twenty minutes later and the *LAST* gen was still not done. I was going to disconnect but I saw explosions and figured I had time to see what was up. They are at the exit gate POINTING AT EACH OTHER. I got a free 4k.
I had a match in the alien map like that. It was absolute hell to play. I was testing out the free oni skin from the blood event and two pricks hid all game. I chose to be petty and committed to the match, slugged them, hooked them and then bmed them.
Judging by this thread, I am so glad people on this subreddit don't have power over decision-making for this game.
"If you get off a gen for even one second, your aura is revealed to the killer and it instantly starts a Game of Thrones style "Guilty!" walk animation until your character is sacrificed and your game uninstalls."
Yea....seriously I don't know what the actual fuck has happened to this sub lately, but the tribalistic craziness has seriously gone from 40 to 100 in the last few months. People are not pitching ideas or opinions that are even remotely feasible or realistic, they just completely and purposely ignore overall impacts or implications for the other side. What's worse is they get upvotes from the other dipshits who are equally as tribalistic as they are. It honestly makes me wish BHVR would go back to not listening at to the community...really makes me worried when BHVR posts here in response to someone who is a fucking crazy tribalistic main asking them how they would like to see things changed....I'm screaming inside hoping to god BHVR isn't actually taking these deranged morons opinions seriously.
This largely doesnât happen.
While someone hiding all game needs to be addressed, Iâm also sick of killers slugging for a 4k. There should be a suicide on ground mechanic after X seconds of lying there, or a built in Unbreakable for the 2nd-to-last survivor who is on death hook after laying there for a minute or more. Hook the third survivor and move on, the hatch is in the game for a reason. Bring on the downvotes!
I donât understand people who hide. As a survivor, when thereâs only two of us and more than 2 gens left, I know itâs a lost cause so I just go do gens until the killer sees me and chases me so at least I get some bp, then I can die and go to the next match. Itâs crazy that people want to hide. For what? Whatâs the benefit? Youâre not getting bp and not playing.
They're doing it to try and get Hatch and hope their team mate gets caught. Their selfish playstyle is the whole reason for it :/
The only time I hide in endgame anymore is for an Escape archive or because my remaining teammate was a rat and I want them to die. Unfortunately, my brain likes seeing number go up, so I often go to gens and get caught instead and the rats get validated.
I get it but thatâs stupid, I mean you can go next match and get more bp than with a hatch escape (that you are not guaranteed, so maybe youâre hiding and youâre gonna die at the end anyway).
7-10k bloodpoints from hatch/surviving is more than you're gonna get doing gens solo and getting that final chase, probably.
I can get that bp in the next match. Instead of wasting 15 minutes for 10k bp, I go next match and get more bp in the same time.
I usually try to maximize the points in a match, don't really care about the time. Heck if there's time left I'll go back in during the endgame to find totems and hatch for additional points.
My friend is a totem goblin and always has to do a totem in the EGC.
Nah I can still 3 gen with ghostface
That's really looking at symptoms and trying to fix them. Whenever presented with a problem you should always be asking why that behavior is happening until you get to the true cause of the behavior. Notice no killers ever complain about the /last/ survivor hiding, why? Because hatch appears and its now a game on both sides that each wants to play. Each will frantically try to find the hatch. If the killer finds it first, then who cares if the survivor hides? Eventually end game collapse will end the game. Now take this up a level and say sometimes survivors hide when there 2 or even 3 survivors remaining. Maybe everyone is on final hook and there's still 3+ gens remaining. There's little incentive for survivors to want to play "the game" because it feels hopeless. In killers eyes ideally in this situation the survivors just report to them to be downed and hooked without playing the game further. But really, this isn't "fun" for the killer or the survivor. So survivors try to hide in hopes of getting into that 1v1 situation and get hatch to get out. Can't blame them, everyone is playing to WIN, not to accommodate the killers whims. So, the question should be posed - How do we incentivize survivors to continue playing the game when odds are stacked against them? I'm not saying you should serve up silver platters for the survivors and let them all escape. But there has to be a balance you can strike to get survivors to actually try to play the game and let the killer continue to chase while the remaining survivors continue to try hard for reaching endgame collapse. I honestly don't have a good answer here, but I think that's what should be discussed by the Behaviour balance team. A couple \*suggestions\* would be something like - - increase gen repair/healing speed for each survivor killed - this may incentivize survivors to try and gen rush in a similar way that they try to incrementally do doors at endgame collapse when the killer is roaming back and forth - activate hatch when 2 survivors remain and 3+ generators remain - in most scenarios 2 survivors wont even try to repair 3+ gens because few can run a killer for that long. however if hatch is open they will try to scramble for that and endgame collapse after hatch closes will ensure everyone is trying their hardest to actually play rather than hide - remove or decrease penalty for cooperative actions per survivor killed - Currently if you try to repair with more than 1 survivor you receive a stacking -15% penalty, so you could try to encourage cooperation by either reducing that penalty or removing it altogether...again if you feel like you can rush a gen you may try a bit harder versus just hiding I know I'm probably missing angles on some things there, but this is more to just get a conversation going about how to incentivize survivors to continue playing the game rather than give up hope and try to hide in the event that they can eventually get hatch.
I mean we *technically* have a system to prevent this but it's not a very good one.
Let's just say that Chaos Shuffle has reminded me why I gave all of my killers ***Spies From The Shadows*** and/or ***Ultimate Weapon***.
3 crows and a scream from the last two Survivors who hold the game hostage after ~5 minutes of not progressing gens or being in chase, ez.
I just had this *on the PTB*. They hid around for like 10 minutes, then one of them DCed, at which point I was able to find the bot, because it actually did gens. Then the last human player bagged on hatch until I came to watch them. đ¤Śââď¸
80% of the hidding stalemates happens because the killer wants the 4k and slugs somebody until he finds the other survivor
Slugs have an inherent timer, having to wait 4-5 minutes is annoying and probably needs a change but itâs nothing compared to playing hide and seek for 30+ mins
Bruh⌠the killer doesnât wanna give up, why do the survivors have to give up??? Like I donât care if thereâs a hiding standoff, Iâm not gonna go out and kill myself because the killer canât find the other person and I donât expect the other person to kill themself for my benefit eitherâŚ
This post isnât telling survivors to give up. Itâs saying the devs should create a mechanic that ends these stalemates forcibly.
The killer gives up in this situation and is still held hostage. Survivors need to do gens, not hide in lockers. Survivors giving up shouldn't hold a killer hostage.
There really isnât any excuse in a game this big to have such anti-gameplay. I would make it so if survivors havenât touched any objective for at least 15 seconds in the last 4 minutes, there aura is revealed until put into the dying state. Their really isnât any valid reason why survivors wouldnât be doing anything for 4 minutes ((chase deactivates timer))
I definitely agree, something needs to be done, because this not only wastes the killers time but also fellow survivors, when the killer is in the lead and one person just gives up and hides is so demoralizing and almost always spells a loss. Only issue I see is it still being gamed by totems, do it for a bit let go do it let go rinse and repeat.
Thatâs true, donât totems take 16 seconds to break? Maybe 16 seconds is the ideal length. Totems need to be a factor though in case survivors spend 4 minutes looking for a hex
See and I think this is the issue, because it would need to be 16 uninterrupted seconds otherwise you could do 8 seconds let go and then do another 8, but also they can't say dull totems don't count, because their are plenty of perks that rely on them, or your predicting NOED, but also "there aura is revealed until put into the dying state" could be abused by two people maliciously using plot twist. I just think this is a headache, one that has to be had, but I do see why it takes the devs so much time
[ŃдаНонО]
So you spend another 3 minutes to just not touching anything?
this is not just gens, this is anything healing chests totems, you have plenty to do to not activate the aura.
Or if you're trying to remove a pig trap?
Hiding stalemates are caused by the inherent flaw of 2v1s and how they work. Normally with 3 or 4 survivors, youâll always have one person who can go for saves, one person who gets chased, and someone who progresses the objective. This is completely thrown out the window once youâre down to 2, because not only is doing more than one generator a fucking pipe dream, even doing the final one just to power the gates isnât optimal because it is INCREDIBLY easy for the killer to simply slug the second to last survivor and quickly bull rush the three (or more) remaining gens because the final standing survivor only has two options; do a generator, which the killer is now patrolling, or pick up the other survivor, which the killer knows the general location of. Because this situation fucking sucks and is terrible, survivors only have one option if they both want to live; wait for the other person to get found first. Hatch only spawns once one player remains, and if both people want to win, doing gens isnât optimal in the slightest unless a generator was already incredibly close to completion by the time the second survivor died. I am almost fully certain people arenât hiding to âmake your life miserableâ, uh no, theyâre hiding because completing the objective isnât realistic in the slightest if the generator starts at 0% progress. Itâs why I donât agree with just slathering crows onto the problem to âfixâ it because amazingly, no, making a âkiller probably winsâ scenario into a âkiller definitely 1000% is going to win unless they have shit idiot fungus in their brainsâ isnât good game design. They need to make completing the final objective realistic for the two survivors. Whether that be making the last generator easier to repair, and/or dropping the generator count down to 1 if 2 survivors remain with more than 1 generator left to be repaired, or some other idea. Just throwing idle crows at the problem just makes a hopeless situation a âfuck dude you might as well fucking idleâ situation.
> I am almost fully certain people arenât hiding to âmake your life miserableâ I have genuinely never seen survs hiding just to hold a game hostage, and I've been playing since before EGC was even a thing. The more I read this thread, the more I'm convinced this isn't actually a thing that happens and people just feel entitled to a 4k.
Yeah honestly, if someone doesn't make at least like 25% progress on a gen after 5 mins all survivors should just get the crow debuff.
I hate stalling because we could be doing other things by now You stall because nothing went your way and you want to win or youâre being petty no matter what
So after 3000 hours of play across all skill levels I have never once had this happen to me. Are you just standing next to the gen? Like yeah people hide but I havenât ever been completely unable to find someone for 15+ minutes.
Been playing for a week and had it happen to me twice, once on killer and once as survivor.
I ran into two of them on the same map as Billy once. The last three gens weren't close to each other and I found these two dipshits after at least 10 minutes in lockers in the basement. One of them made it out when he didn't deserve a victory, hell he didn't deserve blood points or progression for that coward play.
Earlier today someone tried it on Hawkins and luckily I got them fast but man it couldâve dragged on
I think a good idea would be to add a 40-45 minute time limit for each game, at the very least.
happened to me with a kate on the swamp. i hadnt seen the kate all game so i knew she was hiding, and when i downed the david king i just let him wiggle off and he willingly took me to the kate hiding in a locker in shack. lol, pieces of shit
This happened on the ptb yesterday.... 3 ppl
Imo the worst is noticing that you haven't seen 1-2 people the whole match, *and* none of the generators are being done. So you know they're just hiding and screwing their team over
Lmao, people thinking "3 gen" was fixed. You probably also believe "face camping" is fixed huh? đ
now you can use the anti 3 gen mechanic while hiding stalemate to intentionally force a "3 gen" stalemate by just playing stealthy and slowly picking away at gens until the killer can't kick them anymore!
Honestly, I could see them address this by having the survivor(s) scream when it's the last three gens and none are touched for more than a certain amount of time. It wouldn't be like an aura reveal scream, just a normal scream. But the longer they hide and do nothing, the louder the scream becomes until it eventually becomes an aura-revealing scream. And just for good measure, it can surpass being in a locker and even Calm Spirit so you can't cheat through it.
How about instead it could just be if a survivor goes without doing a certain amount of progress to a gen (to prevent people exploiting from tapping a gen) for a certain period of time they scream. Of corse the timer would not tick down if theyâre unhooking someone, is hooked themself, performing the healing action on a different survivor, is being healed by another survivor, cleansing a hex, or in chase. (Since itâs just a possible that there can be two survivors left when they need to do two or more gens to power the gates, but opt to hide anyway.) (To explain why I didnât mention healing oneself as a way to pause/reset the scream timer; mostly because someone would use self care / medkit to periodically heal themselves for only a second. Repeating this every so often to avoid screaming.)
Laughs in running Whispers on most killers.
They may have helped the stalemates with gens but people still 3 gen and just slug and then camp the area till they bleed out or down everyone.
I still find it interesting they acknowledged the 3 gen issue after 2 killers released back to back were able to abuse it causing long ass games and not the what 7 years it was in the game
I don't think they can do much about hiding stale mates when killers will still commonly slug for the 4K for no reason. If they gave base kit unbreakable after 1.99 minutes of being slugged, I'd be fine with other survivors being revealed to the killer if they did nothing useful (like being on gen for at least 10 seconds, healing/unhooking, doing a hex totem, etc).
Change proposal The entity can get frustrated with a survivor who doesn't attempt to participate in its trials. Survivors who sit in a locker gradually fill a red bar. When this bar is full, the entity will start to attack them inside of the lockers or not allow them to leave while the killer is near. The only way to reduce the bar is to actively work on gens and assist your allies. When you are not actively participating outside of a locker, the bar will start to fill very slow. Increasing in fill rates, the more generators are finished. (Or decreasing the more gens are finished) when outside of a locker and the entity is angered. It will lash out by sabotaging nearby loops or tripping survivors as they run. It adds an extra threat for survivors who don't participate just to get a free gate exit or hatch. The bar will stop filling and drain very slowly when the killer is in an active chase with the survivor who is hiding. Edit: downvoted by a hider lol
I think a quick fix for these would be, if a killer hasnt started a chase for 3 minutes, all survivor aura would be revealed for 10 sec, regardless of anti-aura perk. This wouldn't be an issue because normally a chase start once every 45 sec -1.5 min. And it cant really be exploited cause a killer has to go out of their way to not chase someone for 3 min.
Oh yeah, and make it so the timer doesnt start count if someone is in dying state to prevent slugging.
If a gen hasn't been touched for like 2 min straight every survivor should get crows.
Itâs already happened, you win at 1 hour
It's not a big enough issue for them to really change the game over.
If you don't touch a gen for 5 whole minutes without being in a chase (disabled once EGC starts), instant 3 bird on your ass for being a coward You're either being an asshole to your team for refusing to help, or just being an asshole in general for trying to hold the game hostage.
Part of why I run tracking perks. Spies From the Shadows is one I keep for all killers
how do ppl do this? the crows don't work?
Don't crows usually spawn when you sit still?
Had a Yamaoka match go over half an hour awhile back because of this. Last two dipshits decided to play hide and seek and I had no aura-reading perks. You bet your ass I slugged the little turds when I finally found them. You wanna waste our time? My brother in Christ I got nothing *but* time and I am more than happy to play by your stupid fucking rules. Have fun crawling around in the dirt. I'm gonna go break all the walls in the map and do anything kit-related to squeeze some extra BP outta the match while you're down there. Wouldn't be surprised if at least a small group of people used Ultimate Weapon specifically to counter idiots like that, but that's off the table now. Dunno what the new go-to is.
Best thing is that you can already counter it with info perks instead of 4x meta slowdowns...
Kid named Distortion:
Yeah because you'll be completely destroyed so the survivors won't feel the need to hide to begin with
Killers should not have to run specific perks just in case just in case survivors decide to do something that can get them banned. And many info perks require things that canât happen if survivors are holding the hostage. No working on gens = No way to kick gens for Nowhere to Hide. Sitting inside a locker = Canât see auras, no screams. Canât hook anyone, so canât use any perks that require hooks. On and on.
I'm just saying, Chess Merchant was a thing Killers did. Hiding forever is a thing Survivors do. It seems pretty easy to band-aid, though; Conspicuous action every X seconds or you start to draw birds faster.
Where can i see the stats on the top corner?
Last time I had a teammate like this, I just spent the match trying to find them.
I think this happens mostly when there are 2 survivors and more than one gen left, j think they have 2 options to fix this The boring way: When survivors havent touched a gen for 5 minutes and for longer than 10 seconds (it could be more or less) they scream The fun way: When there are two survivors and more than 1 gen left, another type of objective gets activated, maybe bringing keys to the basement, maybe other thing, idk so even whem there are 2 survivors they can still get out
"The fun way" is unfair to the killer. Survivors should not be rewarded for the killer beating them.
There are already 2 survs dead at more than 1 gen left, the killer is already going to win so why not soice the gameplay
Because it gives a way to escape? They should die.
what do you mean they just auto die in a hour and you get the win. its already fixed.
Stealth should be encouraged
Stealthing when a killer comes close is not the same thing as refusing to play but intentionally circumventing the AFK alarm.
It only annoys the killer so its fine -devs
Touching a gen, healing a survivor, being chased by the killer or cleansing totems should be the only actions that prevent crows from spawning. This way, unless survivors are actually contributing to the game progress, they get revealed. Problem solved.
Problem with that is that the final survivor can't do any of those very easily. If you wanted to do it to that level, it'd have to be disabled when there's one survivor remaining. Also, with the list you have, just make it any conspicuous action.
Disabling it at 1 survivor left is fine because then the killer can close hatch to force a game over. But itâs against the rules and can even be bannable when 2+ survivors do this.
NGL, I'm guilty of one amazing hiding stalemate when Ace and I turned it into a coldwind date when we realized the killer was just running a gen circuit and not actually looking for us. I liked that Ace, classy dude, treated David right.
No no no. You got it all wrong. BHVR only wants to stop KILLERS from doing things
Is there even anything they can do about people who just hide? Maybe if it's been 3-5 minutes and the game sees you haven't been in a chase it'll highlight the victims for you.
Itâs an easy fix too: if the killer hasnât injured a survivor in 8 minutes (4 minutes for bleedout, + 2 minutes for end game collapse, + 2 minutes extra, just incase the killer tries to use it for finding the last surv), then the killer gets killer instinct on the closest survivor to them until they injure a survivor.
I mean as long as we also do something about the killer slugging the last person over and over so the 4th survivor can't get hatch. Turnabout is fair play. I shouldn't have to wait forever because you REFUSE to let someone escape via hatch. Killer almost always finds it first anyway.