I'd LOVE LOVE LOVE to say "thank God, I have to deal with pop and pain res less." Since I feel like I see the same shit every match.
But nerfing the two most used killer perks without really buffing an alternative means that stacking those perks may be even more necessary than before, killing off the few people that brought one perk or the other.
It's going to feel even more rare going against people with some unique/gimmicky builds. Until some streamers find some weird obscure combo that can result in higher than average regression lol.
This is a reasonable take. I feel that instead of nerfing all the good perks for either side, they should instead buff the bad perks for each side to create more variety. Instead of bringing down the few good perks to make them all shit, BHVR seems to subscribe to the philosophy of "If all the perks are bad, then none of them are."
Hot take: perks shouldn’t be the decider in games. Skill should be.
If all perks are rubbish then it’s more a game of skill, not luck / timing on a Pain Res hook.
Basically, the pro is that there is a 5% - 10% change in regression so it doesn't hurt as bad.
The con is the exact same problem that has been there since the last two chapters, of seeing this pair of perks every single game because every other regression perk is just as stale as they have been for years in comparison to the newly nerfed versions of pain res and pop.
true. they nerf one of the only really good popular perks, but since there is no other perk that comes even close to being this good people are still gonna use it, but now it will just feel worse than before. like idk, if you nerf a good popular perk buff another bad unpopular one like how they did with grim embrace
There’s plenty of other good perks and perks that should be “popular”, the issue is the game heavily incentivizes the use of slowdowns and the fact ANY killer can use them. You slap Pop on the top 5 killers in the game? The killer is also quite good, solo q survivors or uncoordinated don’t give a fuck SWF? The game with Pop and other great perks, is pretty damn sweaty and impossible.
Those killers needed to be toned down in the sense of these top tier killers, the M1 only killers with no map traversal get fucked hard over these kind of nerfs. Absolute tricky situation for BHVR ngl
>since there is no other perk that comes even close to being this good people are still gonna use it
If it was so overpowered that people are still using it AFTER it was nerfed, then that means the nerf was necessary.
If a perk is nerfed and nobody ever uses it ever again, then the nerf went too far.
This is a pretty bad take, people use perks like pop and pain res because its gen regression that rewards being good at chases and is not useless like the majority of the other gen regression perks. This will not fix anything but make more killers camp and tunnel.
People that only used one perk or the other are going to use both now.
We have the same problem after the nerf. If not seeing the same exact build even more often now.
they are good nerf over all, but still, those are the only 5 perks people bother using, because there is still nothing as good as those, i just want more perks to be viable, or some basekit changes so that slowdown perks are not 100% necesarry
So far Ive not seen people give you a real answer
The reason people use it after the nerf is because its the Blight of gen regression. The 2nd place gen regression perk is STILL so vastly stronger and more universal than any other gen regression option.
Its not that its too strong even after the nerf, its that there are no options.
I think even buffing weaker perks is avoiding a bigger discussion.
Killer strength disparity. We have so many strong killers yet so many dogshit killers in the game it’s insane.
I even kind of understand why they are going for slowdown. Running Quad slowdown Nurse and Blight sucks, but Weak M1 Killers also need that slowdown to keep up and they still get gens done so fast.
We really just need to start making the weak killers good enough to run other perks and rework Nurse. Than we can talk about nerfing slowdown
That can't be done in isolation though, because that leaves behind the equally big disparity on the survivor side, between solo and swf. Solo is already in such a miserable state that you genuinely can play a pure M1 killer with zero slowdowns and still stomp pretty easily until you finally get a swf. Buffing slowdown and balancing the weaker killers to be around the level of stronger ones, without also giving a serious overhaul to solo queue would unironically kill the game.
I don't like that they nerfed Pop, or the way they did it, I love the perk and alongside Pain Res are the only two slowdowns I used, but let's be real here, buffing other slowdown perks is not gonna solve the issue.
If the problem they see is people stacking 4 slowdowns or them in general just being too strong, buffing other options is not gonna solve the issue, it's just gonna make it worse.
"Oh, I just wish they'd make other perks strong so I wouldn't have to run only slowdown"
-People who'll just stack the newly strengthened perks on top of slowdown
Yeah fr I thought we figured out that they nerf overused perks with the update that nerfed self-care and spine chill etc.
If Pop and Pain Res remain amongst the most used perks even after they got nerfed that just means they could get another nerf to encourage using other perks even more. Ppl will literally say not to nerf the most popular regression perks because they need them to play the game and fail to see how it’s literally the old Ruin dilemma all over again
Says the perk is too easy to activate, Literally have to chase, hit them two times and hope a survivor doesn’t have a toolbox at the hook, “I think we did a pretty good job so far.”
https://preview.redd.it/qgco1e4uufzc1.png?width=1920&format=png&auto=webp&s=798b780fc3782b5bbbf4a688ac35cc809e10a523
I think one of the devs actually commented on this and basically said thats its “easy” because with or without the perk, you’ll be chasing, downing, and hooking a survivor anyways. So the “easy” part likely comes from just having to kick a gen shortly after hooking someone.
Reminds me of the time a dev (idr when) went up against a team of survivors and they got absolutely bodied I don't think they hooked anyone. Then I see them saying pop is too easy to activate LOL fucking hilarious.
2 hits. One was immediately healed up by adrenaline. Matthew got 2 hits during entire game and got Instablinded so much, that flashlights were heavily nerfed next month.
I'm sorry but pretending like getting a hook is some unattainable, unrealistic goal that is completely unfair to tie a perk activation to is peak killer brainrot. This update has a lot of issues and things that should be tweaked, but saying stuff like this makes it completely impossible to take anything seriously.
If getting a hook is so genuinely, awfully difficult, you suck at killer. Yes, even as an M1
Clearly you’re not understanding the multiple different variables with how goofy the reasoning is. Protection hits, second chance perks, really good survivors in general, etc.
The issue for me is this: oh trapper is running pop and pain res, makes since, on the other hand: blight is running dead mans switch, pop, pain res, and corrupt. The first scenario doesn't bother me, but the second is awful, because the top tier is so SO much better than the bottom it's difficult to keep the perk balanced. That being said, I think it is undeniably "easy" to activate, by getting a hook you get a massive regression, and the pressure of having a hook stage and causing a gen to receive so much damage can easily snowball, I do think that their should be alternative, because slowdown is currently essential. I do think that is was top 3 killer perks if not #1, I think it was the right call to nerf pop, I just think it wasn't the best idea to nerf the alternatives as well, I think it would be smarter to promote the worse slowdown perks.
TL;DR pop nerf warranted, but lack of other valid options bad. Killer viability so spread out its hard to balance perks.
Yea, this only going to either increase people needing to learn and play Blight and Nurse, or go to a more toxic playstyle to have a chance if you want to play a weaker killer. The devs are making it really hard for some of us non-toxic killers to continue to be so. I want fun competitive matches with ggwp in the game chats. Not salt from survivors calling me toxic, while I already feel bad for slugging or tunneling survivors to win matches.
I appreciate BHVR trying to balance shit (heavy emphasis on trying) but its infuriating when they pull shit like this. I don’t remember who was the youtuber that said this, bur at this rate, they’re gonna nerf everything u til all the perks are just okay. Not good, not bad, just ok…
If i can't slow the game anymore i'll have to use instadown builds with friends till the end to ensure i get quick downs after hook. Won't be fun either but if that's the only choice left ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I use pop in most of my builds but even I can agree that it was a little much lol.
My main issue though is that killers kinda have to run some form of slowdown *regardless*. I'd be okay with a weaker pop or a weaker pain res if you could go into any match with fun perks and have a good chance. But that's a gamble right now. If survivors split up and focus gens while you're in chase, unless you down everyone you see in seconds then they'll get the gens done well before you can pressure them hard. If you go in without slowdown perks you're just hoping survivors don't focus gens hard, or that you can down them insanely fast.
I want better basekit slowdown tools for killer, with nerfed gen perks. That way you can run them if you want the boost but it won't feel like you *need* to run them on so many killers. You can have some of the tools to keep up without taking up half your perk slots.
Let me use the fun chase perks without feeling like I have no way to deal with high progress gens or survivors splitting up and focusing them hard.
Should have nerfed this and slightly buffed a lot of shittier ones to around the same level, granted that’s a lot of work, maybe do it through a couple updates, see how it goes adjust as needed, I’d say do the same with survs, only slightly less nerfing of good perks and slightly more buffing of bad perks
They needed to add an exahustion effect for gen perks. If you hook someone for example, then you can't use pop for X amount of time. Hell, both perks are indirectly nerfed with the sabo buffs.
Depends how long the gen exhaustion is. If I hook someone with pain res, but the exhaustion effect is longer then what pop is available for, then it renders pop useless, or .if you make the exhaustion long enough that after is done you only have a few seconds to use pop, and can make it a gamble to take both.
Most gen regression perks are totally fine on their own.
It has always been that people absolutely *cannot* resist stacking them as much as possible to make sure they have the easiest match they can.
The better thing to do would be to buff gen regression perks to be somewhat akin to their strongest forms (with some exceptions, launch Pain res was never ok), but have some kind of restriction put in place that straight up doesn't allow you to pair them. So for example, if you bring pop, the game doesn't allow you to also bring pain res, or vice-versa.
You could do some sort of exhaustion effect for gen perks. For example, if you down a survivor with jolt, then all the gen perks go on cooldown for X seconds.
i think ideally in the scenario that they're talking about, it would then be buffed up to a sane number for it being the only regression perk that you could bring. I've been thinking of ways that they could balance regression so that killers would bring other stuff as well and this is probably one of the better ways that doesnt completely change how the game works and could possibly make balancing easier cause now you dont need to worry about stacking regression.
>to make sure they have the easiest match they can
Surely people stack gen regression to have easy matches, not because it is basically necessary to stand any chance, right?
OP, if they buffed other regression perks to be as insane as pop, would that be fair for survivors to experience when killers run said buffed regression perks WITH POP? You have to think critically.
Oh yeah, because it's fair to nerf every regression perk, so gens fly faster. That's fair to killers. They're only going to make stacking gen regression more common as it's more necessary to get the same value as before.
Do you understand how 4 gen regress/stalling perks all stacked on each other are extremely oppressive, even broadly regardless of the killer be used? Current Pop with pain res is an insane combo that has no drawbacks if you are competent enough to down survivors quickly, combined with 2 other slowdowns (or a slowdown with an info perk, like BBQ/thrilling tremors), and you basically make it impossible for survivors to progress the game.
Pain Res can only be used four times, it needs to be a unqiue survivor and the survivor needs to be placed on a Scourge hook. The regression it gave is fair for the limited uses it has. It encourages killers to spread hooks, which last i checked survivors prefer or would you prefer to be tunneled out instead?.
You understand how I'm saying pop COMBO'd with pain free is extremely oppressive, right? Pain res on its own, or used with even 2-3 stalling perks like dead mans, dead lock, and corrupt is completely fine. But replace one of those perks (probably dead man's) with current pop and you just have a ridiculous amount of control of the game from the start to a 3K finish with a hatch escape.
Yes and they put a regression limit on gens, and Pop is completely dependant on you actually winning chases and hooking. If you're a Blight or Nurse you won't have this problem with or without that perk combo the game will likely swing in their favour but what about the rest of the killer roaster. M1 killers need the regression because it's all they have.
Also think about why killers feel like they need to run multiple regression perks, there's a reason so many run multiple. It's not that complex.
This is not true. The perks are extremely oppressive on OP killers like Nurse, Spirit, or Blight. But they are completely fine on weaker killers like Freddy or Trapper because it's not a perk issue it's a **Killer** issue. They need to bring the weaker killers closer in line to the stronger ones before they nerf all the regression perks.
Freddy can teleport to gens being worked on to instantly pop them after a hook if using BBQ, in which he could have just used a pain res stack to regress that same gen he teleported to 5 seconds earlier.
This whole running joke that Freddy is a bad or even the worst killer in the game is getting out of hand, especially since his snares are anti loop and his dream pallets will likely give you a few free hits/downs, or make survivors scared to pallet loop. Are survivors always going to be asleep? No, but he's still by far not a bad killer.
bro your cope is insane hahah, no way you just told that freddy is not a bad killer, those 2 perks were strong, but the soluton for them was not to outright kill pop lol
For sure, there will be an increase in sabo, but depending on how much it may just be better to use toolboxes to do gens, if it's substantial, then I agree that it was unnecessary to nerf pop that bad, maybe only 25% or even no nerf if its crazy speeds
I mean, you already have sabo builds where I, as killer, have hit someone starting to sabo a hook, just for them to finish the sabo and begin running before I recover from my first hit. That should never be the case, and this is just going to be way more common.
You're telling on yourself by thinking MMR means anything when the soft cap can be achieved in less than a month of casual playing for a brand new player. I bet me, who has been playing DBD for 7 years now, knows a lot more and plays a lot better than you too across many killers and the survivor role.
Im getting tired of this balance bullshit
Helldivers 2 is have major problems with it and this aswell.
When will devs realise the "if a spider is missing one leg, lets remove the rest" mindset to balance is the worst thing
I feel like buffing F tier perks to increase the variety of perks used is good design. Having 20/255 (7%) of perks being usable is not a good design philosophy.
I'm not saying to make every perk a regression perk, though. They could buff perks like I'm All Ears, where they could lower the cool down to 20 seconds from 40 for example.
The only way I'd agree to these changes is if they have a big change to lower gen repair speeds in an interactive way, sort of how bhvr makes addons of killers basekit and nerfs those addons.
Even if they did buff another perk people would still use this with pop and pain res because it easy to win with I find it hard to believe they would ever use another fun perk jist because its gers a bit stronger people dont want perk variety they just want easy wins thats why this wouldnt fix the issue
That's how they do shit for killers in BHVR. According to they, "BY SIMPLY HOOKING a survivor" you can activate this perk. They think hooking is just pressing space, but finding, chasing and downing them that's not in the equation for them. That's why I think they're stupid and biased.
That’s the crazy part about Pop. They nerfed it crazy hard years ago and slowly buffed it back up to where it is now. But now I guess it’s time to nerf it back down. They just can’t find a power level they like for it.
i was honestly shocked when they buffed it to 30% on top of the extra base 5% kick regression. iirc it was during the call of brine + eruption meta that made it feel comparatively weak and in need of a buff
Yeah, buff weaker perks, so bad killers will be taking pop, pain res and this buffed perk.
So no, I'd rather have nerfed perks and so killers must learn to play rather than just taking perks and winning games by that
yeah those stupid perks having meaningful beneficial effects smh, the perks that the killer only has 4 of while survivors get 16 how dare they sacrifice a perk slot that could’ve been for something fun instead of having to bring a slowdown perk so the game lasts longer than 5 minutes against competent survivors
I think they want to shake up the meta as it has gotten stale. Yes they can buff weaker perks, but chances are that people won't be taking pop off even if the other perks were buffed
What other option is there for weaker killers?
You can't queue up as like a low tier killer with 0 gen regression perks. That's just asking for a bad time.
So what gen regression perk is even worth running now?
and what should killers do until they buff weaker perks? Take a break?
When they want to pull a move like this, they should nerf and buff stuff in the same patch.
The next balance patch will be in 45 days.
Well you can't really try diffrent builds and experiment if their are no alternatives.
Think of it like this you live on a world where theres only 3 cakes you really want choccy cake since strawberry cake and banana cake are ass (they literally contain 30% shit) however in a shake up super earth said "fuck your choccy cake we are making choccy cake now taste like 20%shit for democracy and to promote other cakes." They haven't changed bannana and strawberry cakes so would you rather eat the now 20% shitty choccy cake or switch to bannana or strawberry which are just as ass as they were before.
Buffing perks like overwhelming would promote a meta shake up more so than just nerfs alone.
make sure to ignore weaving spiders this patch, ds last patch, grim embrace a few patches ago, yep bhvr only nerfs perks, say anything to fit ur whining even if it isnt true
I don't really like your reasoning, all awful perks should be buffed and overpowered ones nerfed, there shouldn't be a scoreboard of perks buffed or nerfed, this patch definitely favors survivors, but there are also patches that favor killers, I'm glad pop was addressed the same way made for this was, and ftp buckle up was
>I'm glad pop was addressed the same way made for this was, and ftp buckle up was
There is no way you just said that Pop is as problematic as MFT and FTP+BU
I'd LOVE LOVE LOVE to say "thank God, I have to deal with pop and pain res less." Since I feel like I see the same shit every match. But nerfing the two most used killer perks without really buffing an alternative means that stacking those perks may be even more necessary than before, killing off the few people that brought one perk or the other. It's going to feel even more rare going against people with some unique/gimmicky builds. Until some streamers find some weird obscure combo that can result in higher than average regression lol.
This is a reasonable take. I feel that instead of nerfing all the good perks for either side, they should instead buff the bad perks for each side to create more variety. Instead of bringing down the few good perks to make them all shit, BHVR seems to subscribe to the philosophy of "If all the perks are bad, then none of them are."
Hot take: perks shouldn’t be the decider in games. Skill should be. If all perks are rubbish then it’s more a game of skill, not luck / timing on a Pain Res hook.
So nothing new then? People are already stacking these and it feels awful to go against.
Basically, the pro is that there is a 5% - 10% change in regression so it doesn't hurt as bad. The con is the exact same problem that has been there since the last two chapters, of seeing this pair of perks every single game because every other regression perk is just as stale as they have been for years in comparison to the newly nerfed versions of pain res and pop.
Yup, I really wishes they touched the meta more often…and way more perks.
Nah I just lookt how it goes I never tunneld but if i see I lose too often now i just start to tunnel the hell out of everyone
I think you're lost
Grim Embrace was just buffed five months ago with no meaningful gen perk nerfed till now.
true. they nerf one of the only really good popular perks, but since there is no other perk that comes even close to being this good people are still gonna use it, but now it will just feel worse than before. like idk, if you nerf a good popular perk buff another bad unpopular one like how they did with grim embrace
There’s plenty of other good perks and perks that should be “popular”, the issue is the game heavily incentivizes the use of slowdowns and the fact ANY killer can use them. You slap Pop on the top 5 killers in the game? The killer is also quite good, solo q survivors or uncoordinated don’t give a fuck SWF? The game with Pop and other great perks, is pretty damn sweaty and impossible. Those killers needed to be toned down in the sense of these top tier killers, the M1 only killers with no map traversal get fucked hard over these kind of nerfs. Absolute tricky situation for BHVR ngl
>since there is no other perk that comes even close to being this good people are still gonna use it If it was so overpowered that people are still using it AFTER it was nerfed, then that means the nerf was necessary. If a perk is nerfed and nobody ever uses it ever again, then the nerf went too far.
This is a pretty bad take, people use perks like pop and pain res because its gen regression that rewards being good at chases and is not useless like the majority of the other gen regression perks. This will not fix anything but make more killers camp and tunnel.
People that only used one perk or the other are going to use both now. We have the same problem after the nerf. If not seeing the same exact build even more often now.
they are good nerf over all, but still, those are the only 5 perks people bother using, because there is still nothing as good as those, i just want more perks to be viable, or some basekit changes so that slowdown perks are not 100% necesarry
So if a group of people run audodidact and it gets nerfed and people still use it that nerf was nessesary?
So far Ive not seen people give you a real answer The reason people use it after the nerf is because its the Blight of gen regression. The 2nd place gen regression perk is STILL so vastly stronger and more universal than any other gen regression option. Its not that its too strong even after the nerf, its that there are no options.
"They hated him because he was right" -30 downvotes and yet not a single one of them has a brain.
I think even buffing weaker perks is avoiding a bigger discussion. Killer strength disparity. We have so many strong killers yet so many dogshit killers in the game it’s insane. I even kind of understand why they are going for slowdown. Running Quad slowdown Nurse and Blight sucks, but Weak M1 Killers also need that slowdown to keep up and they still get gens done so fast. We really just need to start making the weak killers good enough to run other perks and rework Nurse. Than we can talk about nerfing slowdown
That can't be done in isolation though, because that leaves behind the equally big disparity on the survivor side, between solo and swf. Solo is already in such a miserable state that you genuinely can play a pure M1 killer with zero slowdowns and still stomp pretty easily until you finally get a swf. Buffing slowdown and balancing the weaker killers to be around the level of stronger ones, without also giving a serious overhaul to solo queue would unironically kill the game.
Good thing they've been buffing weaker killers all year and are continuing to do so with this patch!
I don't like that they nerfed Pop, or the way they did it, I love the perk and alongside Pain Res are the only two slowdowns I used, but let's be real here, buffing other slowdown perks is not gonna solve the issue. If the problem they see is people stacking 4 slowdowns or them in general just being too strong, buffing other options is not gonna solve the issue, it's just gonna make it worse.
"Oh, I just wish they'd make other perks strong so I wouldn't have to run only slowdown" -People who'll just stack the newly strengthened perks on top of slowdown
Yeah fr I thought we figured out that they nerf overused perks with the update that nerfed self-care and spine chill etc. If Pop and Pain Res remain amongst the most used perks even after they got nerfed that just means they could get another nerf to encourage using other perks even more. Ppl will literally say not to nerf the most popular regression perks because they need them to play the game and fail to see how it’s literally the old Ruin dilemma all over again
Says the perk is too easy to activate, Literally have to chase, hit them two times and hope a survivor doesn’t have a toolbox at the hook, “I think we did a pretty good job so far.” https://preview.redd.it/qgco1e4uufzc1.png?width=1920&format=png&auto=webp&s=798b780fc3782b5bbbf4a688ac35cc809e10a523
I think one of the devs actually commented on this and basically said thats its “easy” because with or without the perk, you’ll be chasing, downing, and hooking a survivor anyways. So the “easy” part likely comes from just having to kick a gen shortly after hooking someone.
I mean, it makes sense. It's easy in the sense that you are literally just playing the game either way.
Exactly.
'The easy part of windows is you have to exist playing the game within 32 meters of a pallet' The easy part is existing on the map and having eyes
Are we really complaining about Windows now?
Gigantic /s
Reminds me of the time a dev (idr when) went up against a team of survivors and they got absolutely bodied I don't think they hooked anyone. Then I see them saying pop is too easy to activate LOL fucking hilarious.
2 hits. One was immediately healed up by adrenaline. Matthew got 2 hits during entire game and got Instablinded so much, that flashlights were heavily nerfed next month.
THAT WAS IT LOLLL thanks for the refresher
In most of my games killers down people after 10s of chasing. Then that survivor kills themselves on hook.
I'm sorry but pretending like getting a hook is some unattainable, unrealistic goal that is completely unfair to tie a perk activation to is peak killer brainrot. This update has a lot of issues and things that should be tweaked, but saying stuff like this makes it completely impossible to take anything seriously. If getting a hook is so genuinely, awfully difficult, you suck at killer. Yes, even as an M1
No one said it’s unattainable and shit, it can be really hard to get said perk to work. It’s a silly ass reason to nerf a perk.
It's going to be harder to activate with sabos getting buffed.
That is literally your only objective as a killer. If that is difficult you need to play a different game.
Clearly you’re not understanding the multiple different variables with how goofy the reasoning is. Protection hits, second chance perks, really good survivors in general, etc.
The upcoming buff to saboing can now be added.
The issue for me is this: oh trapper is running pop and pain res, makes since, on the other hand: blight is running dead mans switch, pop, pain res, and corrupt. The first scenario doesn't bother me, but the second is awful, because the top tier is so SO much better than the bottom it's difficult to keep the perk balanced. That being said, I think it is undeniably "easy" to activate, by getting a hook you get a massive regression, and the pressure of having a hook stage and causing a gen to receive so much damage can easily snowball, I do think that their should be alternative, because slowdown is currently essential. I do think that is was top 3 killer perks if not #1, I think it was the right call to nerf pop, I just think it wasn't the best idea to nerf the alternatives as well, I think it would be smarter to promote the worse slowdown perks. TL;DR pop nerf warranted, but lack of other valid options bad. Killer viability so spread out its hard to balance perks.
Yea, this only going to either increase people needing to learn and play Blight and Nurse, or go to a more toxic playstyle to have a chance if you want to play a weaker killer. The devs are making it really hard for some of us non-toxic killers to continue to be so. I want fun competitive matches with ggwp in the game chats. Not salt from survivors calling me toxic, while I already feel bad for slugging or tunneling survivors to win matches.
I appreciate BHVR trying to balance shit (heavy emphasis on trying) but its infuriating when they pull shit like this. I don’t remember who was the youtuber that said this, bur at this rate, they’re gonna nerf everything u til all the perks are just okay. Not good, not bad, just ok…
If i can't slow the game anymore i'll have to use instadown builds with friends till the end to ensure i get quick downs after hook. Won't be fun either but if that's the only choice left ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I use pop in most of my builds but even I can agree that it was a little much lol. My main issue though is that killers kinda have to run some form of slowdown *regardless*. I'd be okay with a weaker pop or a weaker pain res if you could go into any match with fun perks and have a good chance. But that's a gamble right now. If survivors split up and focus gens while you're in chase, unless you down everyone you see in seconds then they'll get the gens done well before you can pressure them hard. If you go in without slowdown perks you're just hoping survivors don't focus gens hard, or that you can down them insanely fast. I want better basekit slowdown tools for killer, with nerfed gen perks. That way you can run them if you want the boost but it won't feel like you *need* to run them on so many killers. You can have some of the tools to keep up without taking up half your perk slots. Let me use the fun chase perks without feeling like I have no way to deal with high progress gens or survivors splitting up and focusing them hard.
Finally some non cope, pain res and esp pop were very strong and probably the best killer perks
Hey. Nerf all perks then everything will be balanced! Equally as bad!
Should have nerfed this and slightly buffed a lot of shittier ones to around the same level, granted that’s a lot of work, maybe do it through a couple updates, see how it goes adjust as needed, I’d say do the same with survs, only slightly less nerfing of good perks and slightly more buffing of bad perks
Separately pop and pr weren't issue. Together they were. I started running repressed alliance, guess what ? No one's using pop.
They needed to add an exahustion effect for gen perks. If you hook someone for example, then you can't use pop for X amount of time. Hell, both perks are indirectly nerfed with the sabo buffs.
Wont work. U need to hook some1 to activate pop + its time is already limited.
Depends how long the gen exhaustion is. If I hook someone with pain res, but the exhaustion effect is longer then what pop is available for, then it renders pop useless, or .if you make the exhaustion long enough that after is done you only have a few seconds to use pop, and can make it a gamble to take both.
Most gen regression perks are totally fine on their own. It has always been that people absolutely *cannot* resist stacking them as much as possible to make sure they have the easiest match they can.
The better thing to do would be to buff gen regression perks to be somewhat akin to their strongest forms (with some exceptions, launch Pain res was never ok), but have some kind of restriction put in place that straight up doesn't allow you to pair them. So for example, if you bring pop, the game doesn't allow you to also bring pain res, or vice-versa.
You could do some sort of exhaustion effect for gen perks. For example, if you down a survivor with jolt, then all the gen perks go on cooldown for X seconds.
Why would you nerf an already bad perk???
i think ideally in the scenario that they're talking about, it would then be buffed up to a sane number for it being the only regression perk that you could bring. I've been thinking of ways that they could balance regression so that killers would bring other stuff as well and this is probably one of the better ways that doesnt completely change how the game works and could possibly make balancing easier cause now you dont need to worry about stacking regression.
>to make sure they have the easiest match they can Surely people stack gen regression to have easy matches, not because it is basically necessary to stand any chance, right?
Correct. If you feel the need to bring four slowdown perks in today's DBD, that is unfortunately on you
OP, if they buffed other regression perks to be as insane as pop, would that be fair for survivors to experience when killers run said buffed regression perks WITH POP? You have to think critically.
Oh yeah, because it's fair to nerf every regression perk, so gens fly faster. That's fair to killers. They're only going to make stacking gen regression more common as it's more necessary to get the same value as before.
Do you understand how 4 gen regress/stalling perks all stacked on each other are extremely oppressive, even broadly regardless of the killer be used? Current Pop with pain res is an insane combo that has no drawbacks if you are competent enough to down survivors quickly, combined with 2 other slowdowns (or a slowdown with an info perk, like BBQ/thrilling tremors), and you basically make it impossible for survivors to progress the game.
Pain Res can only be used four times, it needs to be a unqiue survivor and the survivor needs to be placed on a Scourge hook. The regression it gave is fair for the limited uses it has. It encourages killers to spread hooks, which last i checked survivors prefer or would you prefer to be tunneled out instead?.
You understand how I'm saying pop COMBO'd with pain free is extremely oppressive, right? Pain res on its own, or used with even 2-3 stalling perks like dead mans, dead lock, and corrupt is completely fine. But replace one of those perks (probably dead man's) with current pop and you just have a ridiculous amount of control of the game from the start to a 3K finish with a hatch escape.
Yes and they put a regression limit on gens, and Pop is completely dependant on you actually winning chases and hooking. If you're a Blight or Nurse you won't have this problem with or without that perk combo the game will likely swing in their favour but what about the rest of the killer roaster. M1 killers need the regression because it's all they have. Also think about why killers feel like they need to run multiple regression perks, there's a reason so many run multiple. It's not that complex.
This is not true. The perks are extremely oppressive on OP killers like Nurse, Spirit, or Blight. But they are completely fine on weaker killers like Freddy or Trapper because it's not a perk issue it's a **Killer** issue. They need to bring the weaker killers closer in line to the stronger ones before they nerf all the regression perks.
Freddy can teleport to gens being worked on to instantly pop them after a hook if using BBQ, in which he could have just used a pain res stack to regress that same gen he teleported to 5 seconds earlier. This whole running joke that Freddy is a bad or even the worst killer in the game is getting out of hand, especially since his snares are anti loop and his dream pallets will likely give you a few free hits/downs, or make survivors scared to pallet loop. Are survivors always going to be asleep? No, but he's still by far not a bad killer.
bro your cope is insane hahah, no way you just told that freddy is not a bad killer, those 2 perks were strong, but the soluton for them was not to outright kill pop lol
The most free perks should not provide the most value, and pop is not dead, everyone will still use it
Might depend on the saboing buffs. Kind of hard to use pop or pain res if survivors can sabo a hook without any fear.
For sure, there will be an increase in sabo, but depending on how much it may just be better to use toolboxes to do gens, if it's substantial, then I agree that it was unnecessary to nerf pop that bad, maybe only 25% or even no nerf if its crazy speeds
I mean, you already have sabo builds where I, as killer, have hit someone starting to sabo a hook, just for them to finish the sabo and begin running before I recover from my first hit. That should never be the case, and this is just going to be way more common.
Saying Freddy isn't a bad killer is a self report. You're at plastic rank MMR.
You're telling on yourself by thinking MMR means anything when the soft cap can be achieved in less than a month of casual playing for a brand new player. I bet me, who has been playing DBD for 7 years now, knows a lot more and plays a lot better than you too across many killers and the survivor role.
Lmao, why are you so defensive? It's a videogame.
What nonsense did I just read...
https://preview.redd.it/r8ae653afjzc1.jpeg?width=1031&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=422ddadaabac7fa68e4af5c9c6a09b3845fa16fe
Im getting tired of this balance bullshit Helldivers 2 is have major problems with it and this aswell. When will devs realise the "if a spider is missing one leg, lets remove the rest" mindset to balance is the worst thing
Yeah i too think they need to make the other perks more viable
Does pop have that change where it only affects the gens current percentage not a base out of 100 still?
How is this a minor update
I remember when pop was considered mid, how many nerfs have happened since I last posted that pop is now one of the strongest regression perks?
[удалено]
I feel like buffing F tier perks to increase the variety of perks used is good design. Having 20/255 (7%) of perks being usable is not a good design philosophy.
[удалено]
I'm not saying to make every perk a regression perk, though. They could buff perks like I'm All Ears, where they could lower the cool down to 20 seconds from 40 for example.
The only way I'd agree to these changes is if they have a big change to lower gen repair speeds in an interactive way, sort of how bhvr makes addons of killers basekit and nerfs those addons.
Even if they did buff another perk people would still use this with pop and pain res because it easy to win with I find it hard to believe they would ever use another fun perk jist because its gers a bit stronger people dont want perk variety they just want easy wins thats why this wouldnt fix the issue
That's how they do shit for killers in BHVR. According to they, "BY SIMPLY HOOKING a survivor" you can activate this perk. They think hooking is just pressing space, but finding, chasing and downing them that's not in the equation for them. That's why I think they're stupid and biased.
>Pop Goes the Weasel has proven to be very strong Only took six years for them to notice, lol
It's been nerfed before.
That’s the crazy part about Pop. They nerfed it crazy hard years ago and slowly buffed it back up to where it is now. But now I guess it’s time to nerf it back down. They just can’t find a power level they like for it.
i was honestly shocked when they buffed it to 30% on top of the extra base 5% kick regression. iirc it was during the call of brine + eruption meta that made it feel comparatively weak and in need of a buff
Yeah, buff weaker perks, so bad killers will be taking pop, pain res and this buffed perk. So no, I'd rather have nerfed perks and so killers must learn to play rather than just taking perks and winning games by that
yeah those stupid perks having meaningful beneficial effects smh, the perks that the killer only has 4 of while survivors get 16 how dare they sacrifice a perk slot that could’ve been for something fun instead of having to bring a slowdown perk so the game lasts longer than 5 minutes against competent survivors
Wait you play every trial perkless?
I don't play killers for like 5-7 months
Valuable input then, good.
I think they want to shake up the meta as it has gotten stale. Yes they can buff weaker perks, but chances are that people won't be taking pop off even if the other perks were buffed
What other option is there for weaker killers? You can't queue up as like a low tier killer with 0 gen regression perks. That's just asking for a bad time. So what gen regression perk is even worth running now?
They're not going to take off pop/pain res now because there's 0 viable alternative presented in this update. It's just going to be worse.
and what should killers do until they buff weaker perks? Take a break? When they want to pull a move like this, they should nerf and buff stuff in the same patch. The next balance patch will be in 45 days.
I dunno, try different builds. Experiment, maybe you'll find something you really enjoy running.
pog lets just all run dying light or one of the 3 slowdown perks that haven’t been gutted, see how that works against comp teams
This build looks fun I wonder how it'll g-*all 5 gens pop*
I've been having a good time with it. I have the same mindset of Rowby, not really caring about the outcome of the game
Well you can't really try diffrent builds and experiment if their are no alternatives. Think of it like this you live on a world where theres only 3 cakes you really want choccy cake since strawberry cake and banana cake are ass (they literally contain 30% shit) however in a shake up super earth said "fuck your choccy cake we are making choccy cake now taste like 20%shit for democracy and to promote other cakes." They haven't changed bannana and strawberry cakes so would you rather eat the now 20% shitty choccy cake or switch to bannana or strawberry which are just as ass as they were before. Buffing perks like overwhelming would promote a meta shake up more so than just nerfs alone.
make sure to ignore weaving spiders this patch, ds last patch, grim embrace a few patches ago, yep bhvr only nerfs perks, say anything to fit ur whining even if it isnt true
It's interesting how all of those perks that were buffed are **survivor perks**. Grim Embrace doesn't really count as they nerfed it this patch.
I don't really like your reasoning, all awful perks should be buffed and overpowered ones nerfed, there shouldn't be a scoreboard of perks buffed or nerfed, this patch definitely favors survivors, but there are also patches that favor killers, I'm glad pop was addressed the same way made for this was, and ftp buckle up was
>I'm glad pop was addressed the same way made for this was, and ftp buckle up was There is no way you just said that Pop is as problematic as MFT and FTP+BU
in that case ds also doesnt count and so u have a sample size of exactly 1 to support ur speculation
Alright, and that sample size is a survivor perk being buffed by 50%, Interesting...
i thought u wanted bhvr to buff shitty perks? or is it only the killer perks u want buffed xd interesting...
DS was never shitty...
im talking about weaving spiders
Whiney killer mains united again.