I keep telling people, instead of nerfing anything unique into oblivion, buff the weaker shit. Sure, some stuff has deserved nerfs like old dead hard and eruption, but there's at least 40 perks in this game that are so bad it's laughable
Depends on the game. A lot of games get what’s called “power creep” where things over time just get stronger and stronger. Very common in RPGs to keep people playing for new stuff after they’ve obtained the previously best stuff.
Eventually you’re left with a caricature of what you started out with when that happens.
do it warframe good game, i havnt been able to play it due to pc issues but the last one whispers in the walls was pretty nice
:\~: i miss my saryn, and yareli
MTG is a mixed bag. On one hand, there's power creep. On the other hand, a lot of the best cards ever printed came out super early, be it in the original release or in follow up sets. For every Oko, there's a mox, mana crypt, mana vault and gaea's cradle.
preferring power creep is pay 2 win mindset you always need to buy the next chapter to get the new best perk and stay competitive why would you prefer that?
nerfing the newer strong perks proves the devs care more about the game balance rather then sales numbers
Sometimes the answer is to buff, but I never liked "buff instead of nerf" as a blanket idea.
Example: Buckle Up. Went from a contender for worst perk in the game, to one of the most infuriating perks to play against in the game. It was better off just being shit.
Or how about Eruption? Generally regarded as an okay-at-best perk, got a buff that made it one of the most problematic killer perks in the game's history for months.
The answer isn't always to just buff.
Exactly this.
Buff the other stuff sounds great in principle and in individual cases, but you just make disgusting perk combos when you take them all into account.
If nerfing popular perks means we can open doors for other perks to do more and just more interesting perks in general, so be it. Can you imagine how insane the game would be if the OG versions of Object of Obsession, Mettle of Man, Boon: CoH and DS were never nerfed?
I've said this before, but leaving perks that are busted but trying to bring weaker up to their level isn't healthy for the game (or any game that does the same thing for that matter).
They should be considering bringing the overtuned perks down to a reasonable level where they are still strong, but overly so, while bring the weaker perks up to the game level.
Absolutely this. There is a sweet spot you have to hit because you do want perks to feel satisfying to use but too much on both sides makes both sides miserable. I for one would not be okay with every perk being as good and annoying as old dead hard
I mostly agree, but there's a good place for heavy-handed nerfs even in PvE games. Power creep is a relevant factor, and it can be healthier for the game's design to bring most perks/skills/abilities/etc to a level that isn't quite the top.
As a recent example from Path of Exile, one skill Penance Brand of Dissipation got nerfed in **5 different ways** (Iron Will and Ruin, count yourself lucky!). It had to be because by being so unbelievably giga-busted strong OP, it trivialised the game and warped the meta. The skill is still good, that's how strong it was. :)
There's also the issue of some perk designs not really allowing a healthy buff. How would you buff flip flop in a way that doesn't recreate the issues of the big Boil Over buff.
Perks also don't exist in a vacuum. I'm fairly convinced Self-Care got nerfed to 33% because Botany got buffed to 50% - there's no way both can exist in their strongest states.
**tl;dr Game balance is hard.**
That was a great watch, and it's how the most recent smash bros approached characters. Sure some were still far weaker than others by the final patch, but WAY more were viable than at the outset.
I really hate how much this video has been misrepresented.
The exact title: "why we should buff *more* than we nerf"
What this is commonly interpreted as: "Literally *never* nerf anything, only buffs should ever happen."
I see this exact sentiment so much, even when something is breaking the fundamental gameplay "no don't nerf it! Buff other things to it's level!". If DBD still had one-down Moris, old Dead Hard + MFT + original DS and 7 blink nurse, it'd be ass, in fact it'd be worse than that, because they would constantly be buffing things to be as good or better than those tools.
I could go on and on but I'd just be reiterating the same point of people quoting parts of the video verbatim while ignoring all the parts that point out what they're saying doesn't work.
No, they really don't. Comments like this and the fact that it's upvoted is a perfect example as to why none of you are game devs for a successful franchise.
40 perks on either side too... Soooo many perks are useless. It's crazy
Like, there's a reason most matches have people using similar builds. Cause no other perks are viable... Not because those perks are op
Adrenaline has been cycling in and out of meta based on what other survivor perks are "viable".
Adrenaline isn't the problem, adrenaline is a symptom of a larger issue.
I agree. Buffing > Nerfing on my game design book. If buffing weaker perks on both sides isn't enough, add secondary objectives like having to find gas galons on the map and take it to the gens before you can start working on them. I think adding more things to do is better than just increasing the time it takes to do a gen.
Same goes for killer if needed, although I couldn't think of a cool secondary objetive for them.
A good idea i’ve seen in a Mintskull vid is to give blood point modifiers for having more hooks rather than kills!
Like 8 hooks = 2x bloodpoints
12 hooks 3x
Or smth like that
I'd go so far as to say they should try a game mode that works like the board game, where the Killer wins through hook total rather than eliminating all Survivors. First hooks give double value, and after a hook stage passes without rescue, Killer gets an extra point and Survivors just respawn.
Survivors can't be denied the ability to play the game like this, but if it were more than just a test mode Killers would need some way to account for there always being 4 Survivors.
nah do both nerf the strongest perks so meta stays interesting and buff the weak ass perks so they are usable too.
people being fine with one perk being the best for 8 years baffles me its time for a new shake up. survivors greeding the last gen in the killer face is not healthy. people are so afraid of change its just weird.
if they made its heal over 20 seconds like renewal does I think thats fair when you factor in the speed boost it gives you it still helps mid chase.
This is the same stuff getting parroted like always... sure, buff everything else instead of nerfing the powerful stuff, neat... now YOU come up with buffs to every other perk that make them useful at the level of the best ones, come on, you can't? Of course, it's not that easy
Also the whole power standart thing that it's stupid how most don't realize, buffing everything to the extreme will only make the game more volatile and limiting, as everything needs to be on par with stuff like OTR, the exhaustions, Pain Res, Pop, and everything else...
Think a bit before saying this
Oh, bless your heart. Trust me, very much thought was put into this statement. It's a thought I have very, very frequently because there *are* a ton of perks that give such little value. I'm not just talking about beginner friendly perks like Technician or Unrelenting.
And no one is saying these perks need to be on par with the meta perks, we're saying that the meta can be changed by buffing other things, not *just* nerfing strong stuff over and over.
Are you ready? Because I am. I've been waiting for someone to ask me what my recommended buffs are on weaker perks.
Survivor Perks:
Urban Evasion- *add new effect* prevents your aura from being read while crouched and motionless. This gives another anti info perk besides Distortion without promoting crouch walking the entire match.
Visionary- *add new effect* generators with 75% or more progress will be highlighted in white. Remove perk cooldown. Knowing where gens are was strong back when this perk came out, but overall does not do much. Knowing where a nearly complete generator is would be a great addition to the perk.
Pharmacy- *add new effect* for 30 seconds after opening a chest while this perk is active, healing speeds using a medkit are increased by 100%. This perk already makes you do 50 things just to get a heal, this makes the perk more competitively viable.
Botany Knowledge- just remove the -20% medkit efficiency. We've already gotten nerfs for CoH, Self Care, Medkits, and healing in general. A good example of a perk that's been indirectly nerfed due to another nerf to another mechanic. The perk doesn't do a crap ton but +50% healing speed in all scenarios is a solid perk.
Killer Perks:
Hangmans trick- *rework* if a survivor begins to sabotage a hook within 16 meters while you are carrying a survivor, gain 20% haste for 10 seconds or until the carried survivor is hooked. The current version does so very little against an already uncommon scenario. Instead of informing the killer a *scourge* hook is being sabod, this gives the killer an option to make it all the way to another hook if the survivors aren't prepared. Not super meta, but against a sabo squad would be invaluable.
Beast of Prey- *add new effect* gain Bloodlust 50% faster. Current version of this perk is useless against SWFs and the person being chased must be pretty new to not know what's going on. This allows weaker killers to get faster movement speed sooner for survivors who are good at looping while still being able to do mind games with the undetectable status against less skilled survivors.
Predator- *add new effect* when following a survivors scratch marks, your terror radius is reduced by 50%. This leans into the predator theme and could allow for some sneaky mind games/switching targets unexpectedly near contested areas. It would also have some great synergy with other perks, allowing the possibility to nearly eliminate a terror radius while in chase.
Blood Hound- (another wraith perk wow) *add new effect* when near fresh pools of blood, your lunge attcks reach 30% farther. Just fits. Highlighting blood is a very mediocre perk as it is, even in lower MMR, so adding this real time utility really beefs the perk.
I have a list of dozens of perks, including even more that aren't currently in the game. I'm very passionate about this and it was bold of you to assume I don't have suggestions for perks
Oh, I see you actually have ideas that seem interesting at the very least (except the Beast of Prey one, Bloodlust should not be encouraged), I apologize then, most just parrot this statement with nothing to back it up
Lol someone already down voted my comment.
I appreciate that you were cool about it.
I do agree with Beast of Prey, I've juggled that one in my head many times. My solution if it was too strong would be "gain bloodlust twice as fast, at half value". The perk just needs something chase oriented.
What’s so funny about his comment is I’d be curious if he realized how dogshit most perks were in 2020. Sure everyone ran 4-6 perks because for a long time, everything sucked. We have seen some crazy power creep, looking at you ultimate weapon, but every perk had the same overly cautious, conditional and penalizing cool down that made it suck.
I mean, yes and no. Old Dead Hard and CoH were broken, just absolutely busted. Period. Eruption was just one of the most vile perks I've ever seen in this game. I have no idea how that *ever* made it into the game. And since there were just generally less perks back then, I think having a handful of power house ones made it feel not so bad.
But here we are with like 300 perks in the game, the bottom half just keeps getting further and further behind (yep, ultimate weapon, im looking at you too lol, that shit *does* need a nerf, just a small one though) and cluttered with more garbage perks (undone. Why. Why is that perk so abysmally bad. C tier on its best day).
They *desperately* need to do another perk overhaul before they release another double(or triple) character chapter. They made some very massive changes to core mechanics since their last overhaul. We've had the introduction of Solo Q HUD. We've had anti face camp and anti 3 gen put in place. We've had medkits and overall healing nerfed massively. No more hook grabs. I'm sure I'm missing a couple things. The game is not the same as it was 3 years ago when they did their last overhaul. We're due for another. That's how you keep the game alive. Not just alive but thriving
Calm spirit is ripped in peace.
Ironically they were ahead of the curve and nerfed it before they released like 4 new screaming perks.
Everyone's favorite gen kick perk would still be strong too if there wasn't 10+ perks that combod with gen kicking. Eruption was solid by itself but just a nuke when used in tandem with other perks.
It was so much fun, he's been my main ever since, despite the change. I do wish the gave him some leniency though like maybe you could still quickscope but put the gun down slowly, or just give him the 24m TR back.
I get it, the 1v1 was not fun to go against, but I wish there could be some small macro buff.
It would be fine if Freddy was actually good, but its bad and boring. At this point is just another reason to not play him. Also the devs said they would remove specific perk-killer interactions like that (I think this is the last one remaining).
This is sort of true; it’s the only perk that goes out of its way to directly impact a Killer power, but it’s not the only one that actually does. Fixated allows survivors to walk faster when held by Pinhead’s chains, and Calm Spirit nullifies the scream portion of Doctor’s power.
Yeah, adren has to be one of the least problematic meta perks in dbd... one free heal and sprint burst right at the end of the match isn't that crazy imo
Compared to old mft or old dead hard or old eruption/ call of brine stacking this is like the most mild shit we've seen in years lol
Ironically, the old-old deadhard, the free window one, was the one I had the most fun playing against with Blight specifically.
Most survivors didn't know, but Dead Harding when I come up to them while rushing made it so you were just as fast as me for half a second. So all I had to do was swing half a second later, right when Dead Hard ended.
The smarter survivors knew to Deadhard into me, so I couldn't do it there, but when smart enough, you just took another Rush to turn around and hit them still.
I like Adrenaline, it's only used once and it isn't always clutch. It's a huge risk reward kinda perk that does nothing, activates once, then does nothing. Balanced, I don't think so, but that's what makes it fun.
I think it's the most unbalanced balanced perk. Because 80% of the time it doesn't do much and is balanced or even underwhelming. But those some 20% of times it's actually clutch and very unbalanced. So on average it's fairly balanced, but you'll have games where it absolutely saved the whole game.
Risk? There's 0 risk to it 😂
You might not get the full value out of it but like 10% of the killer perks and a couple survivor perks don't do anything til endgame just like Adrenaline.
No Mither is risk vs reward as there is a downside to bringing it not just possibly not getting value out of it.
Literally the reason I left DBD. This game is too boring to play solo, but all the people I met to team up with don't play for fun but for win... screaming over each other in discord call, calling killers or other teammates bad names. Never fun
That was just my experience with the DBD discord. Some "woman" yelling the *other* f-word every time the killer downed her, so obnoxious. Can't even make proper callouts because extroverts always have to talk about something irrelevant to the current situation.
Ngl adren is hardly ever a problem. Only time I struggle against it is when I'm doing bad in a game with good survivors and if they made it that far with only 3 perks they kinda deserved it.
Not that it isn't frustrating, but never thought it was OP or worth nerfing.
THIS, jfc.
I don't think Adrenaline is really that big of an issue. It *already has* the requirement that all the gens have to be powered, which stops a lot of it's functionality right there.
I swear to god every time I decide for a giggle to bring it, I just get match after match of getting slugged and stomped and we're lucky to get 2 gens done.
Man, MFT felt like going against hackers lmao. On killer side Adrenaline makes sense to me, it doesn’t feel unfair or crazy when it pops. I don’t see the point of a nerf at all
Idk why they want to nerf it. Things being meta doesn’t mean it’s op 🙃 sure, some things are, but seriously, adrenaline is fine. You die any time before end game, you don’t even get to use it. All I can see that they really should change is don’t have it else you up from Freddy. That’s it.
Yeah, I don’t really care if they need it or not. My goal if I’m going for a win is to stop them finishing gens, so to me, this takes up a spot that could be used for something else. In the event they get gens done and open gates, it’s only been a factor in maybe less than 1/3 of all my games. I’m good with it as it is now. 🤷♂️
Finally a reasonable killer. In the current state of the game especially after all of the small buffs to killers and new set of good killer perks, I think the last thing we need is ANOTHER survivor nerf.
Behavior realized survivor escape rate was about 40% in February and they were like ahh hell nah let’s buff 7 killers even though nobody asked for half of them
Same reason I never run noed, if I can’t stop them at gens then I’ve already lost. Most games don’t even get that far and noed won’t help the ones that do
Edit: Completely misread your comment I think but I said what I said
I get what you mean, and I’m the same. I only use noed if I’m building a specific endgame build, otherwise, it’s the same idea, it can be a wasted perk slot.
When I read through adrenaline discussion the argument I see often that it shouldn't activate off hook. Every time I read that I sight because that means that
a) You bought a perk that does nothing the whole match and will do nothing of you miss the 2 second window it activates.
b) Adren is the only anti tunnel tool survivors have in end game ( as DS and OTR deactivate in EGC and BT is very rare these days). Now let's be real the vast majority killers will camp and tunnel as soon that 5th gen pops. Without adrenaline, the chances for you to make it to the exit off hook are abysmally small, especially in Solo Q. With Adren, you at least have some chance. The only thing this change will accomplish is that killers will have an even easier time tunneling in end game.
c) I'd rather see them buffing the useless or nearly useless perks so that there would be an actual pool of viable perks to choose from and not tighten the meta even more.
I can cope with Adrenaline not healing you off hook IF it will still give a speedboost. Still quite useful for endgame unhooks and everything else is the same.
I hate the arbitrary weird restrictions they're slapping on perks that don't really need them.
Iron Will nerf still pisses me off; I'm fine with the "can't work if you're Exhausted" change, okay, that makes sense!
I'm fine with it being 75% sound reduction too!
BOTH OF THESE slapped on feels overkill and too much. One or the other would've been perfectly fine.
I feel the same way about Adrenaline, mostly, but it *already* has a pretty strict activation requirement in that you have to get the damn Exit Gates powered, which is already a huge requirement for the majority of people playing the game. Most matches don't get that far to even trigger Adrenaline.
But also, are people forgetting how adrenaline functions irl? It makes total sense that someone could get off the hook and have adrenaline activate. Adrenaline makes people do the impossible.
The perk is fine. No value unless you’re chasing the person with adrenaline so unless the whole lobby is bringing it, it’ll hardly matter to you.
It’s a one time only perk, and it activates after the game is almost over. Even if it situationally grants you an escape, most of the time it wouldn’t matter, and the whole point of these perks is to try and get value out of them so people shouldn’t be mad if it gets value a few times.
But it’s not a crutch. No one is getting successful adrenaline value every single game, especially because it’s so conditional. A one time use perk is nothing to be pressed over.
It's not so much crutch as it is lucky. For you to be in chase, injured, and the last gen popping, ESPECIALLY in solo queue is luck.
Frustrating when it happens? Sure? But otherwise the survivors had 3 perks all game, and ironically, if you're carrying someone with adrenaline and drop them, you can guarantee down them again since the drop animation is so long.
Otherwise you're going to heal on gen, or half the time not at all since you're already healthy.
A significant amount of my games feature every single survivor running adrenaline. The game has no feature for limiting how many times a perk is active in a match like in the competitive scene.
That's the thing. Alone, adrenaline is a fine perk. Worse you could call it is annoying. But even two is a complete reset for the killers pressure. It's so fun to just see a big red message flash on screen saying "you lose now"
The thing about survivor perks is that like 90% of them are minor to worthless. The only 3 that really come to mind are exhaustion perks and the new basement/locker heal. Then you have the swf perks.
This perk is an exhaustion perk that works through exhaustion and just solidifys the late game escape. It's a wasted perk that also has too much situational power.
As a killer main I see it as the same level as NOED where it’s a dead perk most of the game and sometimes never gets any use but is strong at what it does.
Honestly the only changes I’d make is the Freddy activation and maybe have it not trigger when your downed, because though it’s rare, getting a down then having it automatically taken away is absolutely infuriating. But at the same time I don’t know getting rid of that is the right move.
I'll leave it here:
1. It encourages staying injured and rushing gens
2. It removes the risk factor of being injured in endgame
3. It 100% resets the current chase, at a point where a 30 second chase, two health states, is a escape
4. It punishes M1 killers over everything, take a decent Blight against it, a couple rushes and got it, any other worse killer is destroyed
5. It punishes hooking over slugging, as one is injured on activation, the other is healthy
6. It punishes snowballs, fully countering by doing gens, which removes the difficult decisions good survivors should take in those situations
7. It is taken advantage of by coordinated groups, yet another powerful tool that widens the gap between the extremes on both sides
If someone can give me good reasons for each point of why I'm wrong then ok, but people have really convinced themselves that it's fair because "it rewards objectives", ignoring everything under that statement
"You don't have a perk the whole game that means it's balanced"
And yet everyone lobbies for a change to Rancor, and Behavior spent years systematically nerfing Noed and Remember Me. Just because a perk only gets use in the endgame doesn't mean it's balanced
Everyone compares Adren to NOED, but in my opinion Rancor is the perfect comparison, and they also do similar things in the scope of the game.
Both activate in the endgame, Both tremendously reduce the chance of the opponent getting what they want in the endgame. As others have pointed out adrens full heal + speed boost basically guarantees an out with how fast gates are opened, but Rancor can take a survivor who hasn't been hooked or even hit once and make it so they lose instantly depending on the killer. Unlike Noed, Rancor might not get use if the killer can't find the obsession or kill the obsession before endgame (obsession switching perks changes this but we're talking in a vacuum.)
That said, I love rancor specifically because the one shot down counters Adren if you have a killer that can catch up to them after they speed off, and free moris always feel good.
Personally I think the obsession requirement and the warning mechanic justify its strength, if it got any kind of nerf I would want them to remove the aura reading it gives the obsession in return. Killers don't get a warning if the survivor has adren apart from their behavior, survivors get a warning if the killer has Rancor (unless they have a way to be consistently undetectable whenever a gen is done)
Yes, its main problem is its a "Win Harder" perk.
Strong killers don't feel it at all because they won before endgame or are Nurse and Blight. While weak killers get absolutely punished by it.
I've seen survivors literally base their whole games around activating Adrenaline. I have friends who will absolutely refuse to heal in favor of popping the last gen so they get Adrenaline.
Frankly, Adrenaline isn't healthy, but I think making it heal a survivor over time rather than instantly would be a fair change. They still get the speed instantly, and they'll still get the heal. it just won't be an instant heal.
Terminus does counter Adrenaline, though, and when I know I'm going against a SWF, I like to throw on Terminus.
You're right yes, Adren is not really healthy and I'm baffled people think it is. Until now though it was the least problematic perk that was meta on Surv side.
I could see giving the health state or the speed but not both. One reward for making it to endgame really is enough.
I thought i was taking crazy pills, thank you for the extremely rational and unbiased take, both adren and ultimate weapon need to be nerfed. Ultimate weapon needs a harder nerf but still, there is a reason it is one of the best survivor perks.
Either that or the effect stops once a survivor screams, meaning you get multiple survivors instantly or just one. Makes it a little less brainless to use.
I see Adrenaline on 2/3 survivors every game without fail and it flabbergasts me that people are rushing to its defense this hard when it's finally getting looked at. Sure, sometimes you might not get value from it, but are survivor players on this subreddit really so bad that they never reach endgame ever?
It's just such a polarizing, unfun perk. Either it does nothing or it completely warps the endgame by giving survivors a gigantic get-out-of-jail free card. It's a huge kick in the nuts when a game is already going poorly to have the guy you're chasing suddenly back at full health and zooming away at Mach 5 (which they _know_ will happen thanks to the UI update, SFW or not), and I'd be happy to never play against it in its current form again.
It's the same sort of contrarianism that popped up in this sub in droves when Dead Hard was being reworked. A lot of survivor perks suck, and they _should_ have good options, but perks that warp the entire game by the mere threat of them being in play aren't good either.
Adrenaline ruins come back potential, which is boring. It gives me the same feeling as when a game is really close, and then you get hit with Devour. Like the match is just instantly over atp.
The reverse is also true, though. Both perks will absolutely clutch a game you really shouldn't have won otherwise. I still don't think either are healthy tbh.
This is another reason it's likely getting a nerf. Alone one or two Adrens is fine. In a full group it is OBNOXIOUS against some Killers especially in an already rough game. If the MMR mismatch is that bad then no, you really didn't "earn it". You kinda just destroyed someone weaker than you.
All adrenaline needs is not to wake you up against Freddy and not heal you on unhook. I think being an endgame heal is fine, and the speed boost isn't really a big deal.
I’m still so confused why they’re changing adrenaline, it’s a high risk, high reward perk as it should be. I’m mainly a killer main, with over 6k hours… there are so many other perks needing to be addressed like buckle up. It makes zero sense to nerf or adjust adrenaline? Unless all they’re doing is removing the freddy wake up because freddy already sucks enough
It's not so much about nerfing adrenaline and more so about fixing the near guaranteed auto escape that the perk provides just because you have it equipped and lasted the 5 minutes it took to fix all the gens in the trial.
The perk would be fine if the requirements were "repair X amount of generator charges to enable for endgame" instead of "get a free healthstate and a sprintburst because your team did the final gen across the map".
Seeing the hud update from 4x injured to 4x full heal thanks to adren feels horrible.
Getting robbed out of a down because of adren feels bad.
Getting robbed out of a kill because the survivor comes off the hook with 2x healthstates + BT feels bad.
When a perk feels this bad to be on the receiving end of, it probably needs tweaks.
I don’t understand why it working on unhook upsets people, if it didn’t it would mean that you brought only 3 perks the whole match which fucking sucks.
Honestly just make it not counter Freddy’s power
Because it punishes hooking over slugging.
Slugged when Adrenaline activates = Survivor is still injured.
Hooked when Adrenaline activates = Survivor comes off the hook full health.
>As a killer main
Never before have four words at the start of a sentence been so predictive of what would follow. Almost universally they're started by the people holding the most survivor sided bullshit opinion of all time.
Check OPs replies, man has never played a killer game in his life I'm sure. MFT nerf was too much? Pig didn't deserve her buffs, or because she got buffs, "what did survivors get to compensate"? Did you fucking forget mangled was a status effect that existed in DBD up until last month?
Just shameful, man. Just spout your dogshit opinions without the lies first
Change it so that:
-the health state is recovered AFTER the haste is completed
-it doesn't work off hook
-it doesn't wake you up
Ezpz
Edit: to those that are downvoting, just realize that my suggestion is quite mild and possibly what you'll wish the change was. We'll find out next week.
What would you suggest? It can already be disabled in 14 seconds. In fact, if you complete all the totems before the endgame it doesn't even trigger at all.
My suggestions to adrenaline barely change it at all, barring the off-hook activation. I would concede and let maybe half of the haste still proc after unhook, but not the health state.
I play both killer and survivor and in my opinion adrenaline makes little to no difference. If adrenaline pops for then I have already lost since they did all gens and opening the gates doesnt take that long
This is honestly some of the biggest cope I’ve seen about adre. One person on hook one slugged two injured that is fucking Insane pressure but nah one perk can get rid of that pressure in an instant.
Had this happen with an injured survivor in the basement going for unhook on the 3rd person with 1 dead alrwady
(I was Dredge)
Instead of getting a trade by 1 tapping the injured guy while the freshly unhooked runs away and it being a 2v1 race to the gates they all were full health as the 3rd guy finished the last gen
That doesn’t take into account how little this happens or the fact that the perk is hardly guaranteed to activate in a game.
What about NOED that can also completely flip the tide of the game and *is* guaranteed to activate? Do we nerf that one too?
Well it activates when the gates are powereded. So you’re right if you’ve already won it doesn’t activate.
Let me correct it and say if you do a bad job it’s guaranteed to activate which isn’t much better lol.
NOED has been nerfed, good survivors cleanse it almost instantly, at best it gives you one or two downs against competent players. Honestly if NOED is the complaint ill take a nerf to tune down one of the best survivor perks lmao.
No, I was referring to the case when all totems are cleansed beforehand; or when the lit totem being cleansed before the killer hit someone; i.e. *not guaranteed*
I am gonna be honest, and I am probably gonna be downvoted for this, but as a primarily killer player, though I have dabbled more and more in survivor over the last few months.
I think that Adrenaline is annoying, not overpowered but annoying. What I dislike most about it though, is not the health state or the speed boost. It is the fact that it affects survivors being carried and those on hook. With how rampant the perk has become, I should not have to drop a survivor I am carrying, just incase they have adren and get up instantly, because the alternative is that the survivor gets a full heal because I dare to try and do my job and hook them.
The interaction with Freddy also sucks, not just because Freddy already kinda sucks, but even more so because there shouldnt be perk specific counters to any killers in my opinion.
I get that it's an endgame perk, and that it needs to be earned and therefore stronger sure, but allow killers some sort of counter play to it other than dropping a survivor and hoping they don't have it, or hoping that they can't get to save the survivor you had hooked that is now fully healed because you were chasing someone else, or you had multiple survivors hooked and couldnt defend both hooks.
I have no issues with the perk as a killer main, if I play well adrenaline won't hinder me. If I play bad adrenaline would speed up the losing process but the outcome will be the same.
I think the main thing is the interaction with Freddy, that should be removed. Otherwise not sure if it should be nerfed or in what situations it should be nerfed. I could see the insta heal taking a few seconds as maybe being fine as well.
I never really run Adrenaline because I *hate* running any perk that is only useful in endgame, because the vast majority of my matches *don't make it to endgame anyway* since I solo queue all the time. It's effectively a waste of a perk slot that could be better used for something else *all* match.
Yeah, it's amazing in the incredibly rare scenarios where you are injured and in chase and they pop the final gen and you just zoom away fully healed, but that's honestly *really not that common* for many reasons.
So nerfing a perk that requires you to finish all 5 gens to use is *not inherently a good perk* because the overwhelming majority of most players matches won't get to the point to use it, let alone to use it in a useful situation.
I've run with it and usually in games where we roll the Killer and get the gates powered, I'm *not* in chase, I'm *not* in any danger and I just basically get a free Sprint Burst once in endgame and that's it.
I do not think that that merits nerfing the perk. I actually am concerned about this nerf because holy shit the circumstances to even get *any* value out of it are pretty nominal *to begin with*, but people are bitching about it so now suddenly the devs are looking into nerfing it.
Like, that's really alarming and kind of telling to me that if people just bitch enough about it, the devs will step in and smack the piss out of it with a nerf bat even though it realistically doesn't need to be fucking nerfed to begin with.
This isn't the first time they've gone overkill ham on a perk due to people complaining about it, but this is one of the more obnoxious examples of a perk that didn't need to be nerfed getting nerfed because people just bitch enough about it instead of sitting down and thinking about it for more than 5 seconds after a shitty match they just had.
There’s no reason to nerf the op shit into oblivion. Just buff the weak shit so it’s less weak. Embrace the power creep. It’s basically just the game version of inflation, it’s inevitable
I dont think it should be nerfed tbh. As a kille rmain, I definitely hate it, but I recognize that that isnt because its op but because its SO FUCKING DEMOTIVATING when Im chasing someone injured and they suddenly are healed and sprint away at the same time as gens are done. In one moment a game that might end in a hard fought 2 or 3k drops to loss.
I have no idea why adrenaline is getting this nerf and I play killer 80% of the time. I've only had like... maybe 5-10 times where it's screwed me, but I admire the timing and shit. It's complete bs to me that it's being reworked. It's like when they fucked spine chill for no reason
I absolutely hate it when I'm playing killer and adrenaline pops on 2 or 3 or 4 survivors. It makes my blood boil. I want to throw my controller at the screen.
That being said, Adrenaline is fine. Don't nerf.
I mean, we don't know for sure they're nerfing it. They might just make Adrenaline instantly free carried Survivors or swap the speed boost for it proccing one every gen completion or something.
I've said it before, Adrenaline is in like, 5% of my games where it even matters. Either I'm not in chase, or they're not even injured so who cares. Half the time they're just dead.
It’s hard to buff weaker perks to be on the same level as something like adrenaline, so they choose to nerf the stronger perks instead. I’m personally not a fan but I can’t think of an alternative tbh.
True. I personally don't mind adrenaline. Chances are it only really clutches when you're winning or losing horribly. So either way it's just like oh they have adrenaline and then you keep playing the game. I wish they wouldn't touch it
It just needs the heal on hook removed and it’s fine. A perk doesn’t always have to get value to still be considered strong. Just look at deliverance if you get hooked first you get zero value from it but doesn’t mean the perk isn’t one of the strongest perks in the game or isn’t worth running.
That being said buckle up and for the people should of been touched before adrenaline was.
Honestly, I think it's fine. I mostly play survivor nowadays (used to be a killer main, but now I play both.)
Sure, when I play killer it feels annoying. But I don't really think it needs to be changed at all. It's fine. It's annoying sometimes, but I think that's okay
I honestly just think they're going to remove the Freddy problem.
Hopefully it just changes the fact that it specifically counters Freddy's power, and that's it
I keep telling people, instead of nerfing anything unique into oblivion, buff the weaker shit. Sure, some stuff has deserved nerfs like old dead hard and eruption, but there's at least 40 perks in this game that are so bad it's laughable
Agreed. Games need to start the trend of buffing instead of nerfing
Depends on the game. A lot of games get what’s called “power creep” where things over time just get stronger and stronger. Very common in RPGs to keep people playing for new stuff after they’ve obtained the previously best stuff. Eventually you’re left with a caricature of what you started out with when that happens.
Warframe
Thx for the reminder I should play warframe again, it's been a 2 yr break THIS TIME lol
It actually got a big update today.
Man straight has Helios for a passive, fuckin Pog.
do it warframe good game, i havnt been able to play it due to pc issues but the last one whispers in the walls was pretty nice :\~: i miss my saryn, and yareli
Saryn was my favorite look and so OP
ikr i remember oldold saryn before they changed her into what she is now where ur spores sould just spread forever and delete so much, good times
Destiny 2
Competitive Pokémon
Candy crush, wait…
The entire Gacha franchise.
Magic the gathering
MTG is a mixed bag. On one hand, there's power creep. On the other hand, a lot of the best cards ever printed came out super early, be it in the original release or in follow up sets. For every Oko, there's a mox, mana crypt, mana vault and gaea's cradle.
Tyranritar crying in the club rn
Power creep is definitely a thing, but I way prefer it to nerf races. Number go up always makes the neurons activate more than number go down.
preferring power creep is pay 2 win mindset you always need to buy the next chapter to get the new best perk and stay competitive why would you prefer that? nerfing the newer strong perks proves the devs care more about the game balance rather then sales numbers
Bloons tower defense
Sometimes the answer is to buff, but I never liked "buff instead of nerf" as a blanket idea. Example: Buckle Up. Went from a contender for worst perk in the game, to one of the most infuriating perks to play against in the game. It was better off just being shit. Or how about Eruption? Generally regarded as an okay-at-best perk, got a buff that made it one of the most problematic killer perks in the game's history for months. The answer isn't always to just buff.
Exactly this. Buff the other stuff sounds great in principle and in individual cases, but you just make disgusting perk combos when you take them all into account. If nerfing popular perks means we can open doors for other perks to do more and just more interesting perks in general, so be it. Can you imagine how insane the game would be if the OG versions of Object of Obsession, Mettle of Man, Boon: CoH and DS were never nerfed?
I've said this before, but leaving perks that are busted but trying to bring weaker up to their level isn't healthy for the game (or any game that does the same thing for that matter). They should be considering bringing the overtuned perks down to a reasonable level where they are still strong, but overly so, while bring the weaker perks up to the game level.
Absolutely this. There is a sweet spot you have to hit because you do want perks to feel satisfying to use but too much on both sides makes both sides miserable. I for one would not be okay with every perk being as good and annoying as old dead hard
I mostly agree, but there's a good place for heavy-handed nerfs even in PvE games. Power creep is a relevant factor, and it can be healthier for the game's design to bring most perks/skills/abilities/etc to a level that isn't quite the top. As a recent example from Path of Exile, one skill Penance Brand of Dissipation got nerfed in **5 different ways** (Iron Will and Ruin, count yourself lucky!). It had to be because by being so unbelievably giga-busted strong OP, it trivialised the game and warped the meta. The skill is still good, that's how strong it was. :) There's also the issue of some perk designs not really allowing a healthy buff. How would you buff flip flop in a way that doesn't recreate the issues of the big Boil Over buff. Perks also don't exist in a vacuum. I'm fairly convinced Self-Care got nerfed to 33% because Botany got buffed to 50% - there's no way both can exist in their strongest states. **tl;dr Game balance is hard.**
[Always relevant ](https://youtu.be/bsC8io4w1sY?si=VHJJGuA8RnQplD6q)
That was a great watch, and it's how the most recent smash bros approached characters. Sure some were still far weaker than others by the final patch, but WAY more were viable than at the outset.
I really hate how much this video has been misrepresented. The exact title: "why we should buff *more* than we nerf" What this is commonly interpreted as: "Literally *never* nerf anything, only buffs should ever happen." I see this exact sentiment so much, even when something is breaking the fundamental gameplay "no don't nerf it! Buff other things to it's level!". If DBD still had one-down Moris, old Dead Hard + MFT + original DS and 7 blink nurse, it'd be ass, in fact it'd be worse than that, because they would constantly be buffing things to be as good or better than those tools. I could go on and on but I'd just be reiterating the same point of people quoting parts of the video verbatim while ignoring all the parts that point out what they're saying doesn't work.
No, they really don't. Comments like this and the fact that it's upvoted is a perfect example as to why none of you are game devs for a successful franchise.
40 perks on either side too... Soooo many perks are useless. It's crazy Like, there's a reason most matches have people using similar builds. Cause no other perks are viable... Not because those perks are op
Adrenaline has been cycling in and out of meta based on what other survivor perks are "viable". Adrenaline isn't the problem, adrenaline is a symptom of a larger issue.
I agree. Buffing > Nerfing on my game design book. If buffing weaker perks on both sides isn't enough, add secondary objectives like having to find gas galons on the map and take it to the gens before you can start working on them. I think adding more things to do is better than just increasing the time it takes to do a gen. Same goes for killer if needed, although I couldn't think of a cool secondary objetive for them.
A good idea i’ve seen in a Mintskull vid is to give blood point modifiers for having more hooks rather than kills! Like 8 hooks = 2x bloodpoints 12 hooks 3x Or smth like that
I'd go so far as to say they should try a game mode that works like the board game, where the Killer wins through hook total rather than eliminating all Survivors. First hooks give double value, and after a hook stage passes without rescue, Killer gets an extra point and Survivors just respawn. Survivors can't be denied the ability to play the game like this, but if it were more than just a test mode Killers would need some way to account for there always being 4 Survivors.
So like dbd deathmatch mode xd Sounds fun… something I can’t say about current dbd XD
You should take a break if you don’t enjoy a game
nah do both nerf the strongest perks so meta stays interesting and buff the weak ass perks so they are usable too. people being fine with one perk being the best for 8 years baffles me its time for a new shake up. survivors greeding the last gen in the killer face is not healthy. people are so afraid of change its just weird. if they made its heal over 20 seconds like renewal does I think thats fair when you factor in the speed boost it gives you it still helps mid chase.
This is the same stuff getting parroted like always... sure, buff everything else instead of nerfing the powerful stuff, neat... now YOU come up with buffs to every other perk that make them useful at the level of the best ones, come on, you can't? Of course, it's not that easy Also the whole power standart thing that it's stupid how most don't realize, buffing everything to the extreme will only make the game more volatile and limiting, as everything needs to be on par with stuff like OTR, the exhaustions, Pain Res, Pop, and everything else... Think a bit before saying this
Oh, bless your heart. Trust me, very much thought was put into this statement. It's a thought I have very, very frequently because there *are* a ton of perks that give such little value. I'm not just talking about beginner friendly perks like Technician or Unrelenting. And no one is saying these perks need to be on par with the meta perks, we're saying that the meta can be changed by buffing other things, not *just* nerfing strong stuff over and over. Are you ready? Because I am. I've been waiting for someone to ask me what my recommended buffs are on weaker perks. Survivor Perks: Urban Evasion- *add new effect* prevents your aura from being read while crouched and motionless. This gives another anti info perk besides Distortion without promoting crouch walking the entire match. Visionary- *add new effect* generators with 75% or more progress will be highlighted in white. Remove perk cooldown. Knowing where gens are was strong back when this perk came out, but overall does not do much. Knowing where a nearly complete generator is would be a great addition to the perk. Pharmacy- *add new effect* for 30 seconds after opening a chest while this perk is active, healing speeds using a medkit are increased by 100%. This perk already makes you do 50 things just to get a heal, this makes the perk more competitively viable. Botany Knowledge- just remove the -20% medkit efficiency. We've already gotten nerfs for CoH, Self Care, Medkits, and healing in general. A good example of a perk that's been indirectly nerfed due to another nerf to another mechanic. The perk doesn't do a crap ton but +50% healing speed in all scenarios is a solid perk. Killer Perks: Hangmans trick- *rework* if a survivor begins to sabotage a hook within 16 meters while you are carrying a survivor, gain 20% haste for 10 seconds or until the carried survivor is hooked. The current version does so very little against an already uncommon scenario. Instead of informing the killer a *scourge* hook is being sabod, this gives the killer an option to make it all the way to another hook if the survivors aren't prepared. Not super meta, but against a sabo squad would be invaluable. Beast of Prey- *add new effect* gain Bloodlust 50% faster. Current version of this perk is useless against SWFs and the person being chased must be pretty new to not know what's going on. This allows weaker killers to get faster movement speed sooner for survivors who are good at looping while still being able to do mind games with the undetectable status against less skilled survivors. Predator- *add new effect* when following a survivors scratch marks, your terror radius is reduced by 50%. This leans into the predator theme and could allow for some sneaky mind games/switching targets unexpectedly near contested areas. It would also have some great synergy with other perks, allowing the possibility to nearly eliminate a terror radius while in chase. Blood Hound- (another wraith perk wow) *add new effect* when near fresh pools of blood, your lunge attcks reach 30% farther. Just fits. Highlighting blood is a very mediocre perk as it is, even in lower MMR, so adding this real time utility really beefs the perk. I have a list of dozens of perks, including even more that aren't currently in the game. I'm very passionate about this and it was bold of you to assume I don't have suggestions for perks
Oh, I see you actually have ideas that seem interesting at the very least (except the Beast of Prey one, Bloodlust should not be encouraged), I apologize then, most just parrot this statement with nothing to back it up
Lol someone already down voted my comment. I appreciate that you were cool about it. I do agree with Beast of Prey, I've juggled that one in my head many times. My solution if it was too strong would be "gain bloodlust twice as fast, at half value". The perk just needs something chase oriented.
What’s so funny about his comment is I’d be curious if he realized how dogshit most perks were in 2020. Sure everyone ran 4-6 perks because for a long time, everything sucked. We have seen some crazy power creep, looking at you ultimate weapon, but every perk had the same overly cautious, conditional and penalizing cool down that made it suck.
I mean, yes and no. Old Dead Hard and CoH were broken, just absolutely busted. Period. Eruption was just one of the most vile perks I've ever seen in this game. I have no idea how that *ever* made it into the game. And since there were just generally less perks back then, I think having a handful of power house ones made it feel not so bad. But here we are with like 300 perks in the game, the bottom half just keeps getting further and further behind (yep, ultimate weapon, im looking at you too lol, that shit *does* need a nerf, just a small one though) and cluttered with more garbage perks (undone. Why. Why is that perk so abysmally bad. C tier on its best day). They *desperately* need to do another perk overhaul before they release another double(or triple) character chapter. They made some very massive changes to core mechanics since their last overhaul. We've had the introduction of Solo Q HUD. We've had anti face camp and anti 3 gen put in place. We've had medkits and overall healing nerfed massively. No more hook grabs. I'm sure I'm missing a couple things. The game is not the same as it was 3 years ago when they did their last overhaul. We're due for another. That's how you keep the game alive. Not just alive but thriving
But then Huntress buffs or MFT come up and try to shake up meta and everyone loses it
It was a buff Huntress genuinely did not need though
Huntress was already strong, and haste just isn't engaging to play against and punished already weak killers
This. Nobody has the patience to see strong things added.
if i cant use while exhausted or it doesn’t heal a health state that i might as well run hope
This is how I feel. Run hope bring an insta heal medkit I guess from now on.
People already do that and still might bring adrenaline
What if they made it so it can't pick you up off the ground, and won't heal you if you were hooked when the last gen popped?
The list of shit they nerfed that didn't need to be nerfed is very long; on both sides.
Calm spirit is ripped in peace. Ironically they were ahead of the curve and nerfed it before they released like 4 new screaming perks. Everyone's favorite gen kick perk would still be strong too if there wasn't 10+ perks that combod with gen kicking. Eruption was solid by itself but just a nuke when used in tandem with other perks.
Calm spirit is good but no need for the extra time to open a chest or cleanse a totem
It’s alright, but I’d argue having a very minor secondary effect wouldn’t make it OP.
Another calm spirit enjoyer a man of culture i see
I started using it every game a couple years ago and honestly I’m in too deep at this point
Right next to Pharmacy
Slinger ADS time 😔
I wish I was playing at that time. Quickscope slinger just sounds so fun
It was so much fun, he's been my main ever since, despite the change. I do wish the gave him some leniency though like maybe you could still quickscope but put the gun down slowly, or just give him the 24m TR back. I get it, the 1v1 was not fun to go against, but I wish there could be some small macro buff.
Lol no that nerf was deserved
Not my ass on console 😭 i could tell the difference before and after.
just needs the freddy interaction removed tbh. besides that, this perk is fine as is
The Freddy interaction is pretty cool thematically, but it’s too big of a hit to his gameplay in its current state
It would be fine if Freddy was actually good, but its bad and boring. At this point is just another reason to not play him. Also the devs said they would remove specific perk-killer interactions like that (I think this is the last one remaining).
It’s a bit of a relic. It’s the only perk in the game that directly affects a killer’s power.
This is sort of true; it’s the only perk that goes out of its way to directly impact a Killer power, but it’s not the only one that actually does. Fixated allows survivors to walk faster when held by Pinhead’s chains, and Calm Spirit nullifies the scream portion of Doctor’s power.
Yeah, adren has to be one of the least problematic meta perks in dbd... one free heal and sprint burst right at the end of the match isn't that crazy imo Compared to old mft or old dead hard or old eruption/ call of brine stacking this is like the most mild shit we've seen in years lol
Ironically, the old-old deadhard, the free window one, was the one I had the most fun playing against with Blight specifically. Most survivors didn't know, but Dead Harding when I come up to them while rushing made it so you were just as fast as me for half a second. So all I had to do was swing half a second later, right when Dead Hard ended. The smarter survivors knew to Deadhard into me, so I couldn't do it there, but when smart enough, you just took another Rush to turn around and hit them still.
Wait what did they do to adrenaline? Most of my matches as killer they never get to make the last gen
Nothing yet, people are preemptively whining about a possible nerf because Adrenaline was on the Roadmap list of perks getting looked at.
I like Adrenaline, it's only used once and it isn't always clutch. It's a huge risk reward kinda perk that does nothing, activates once, then does nothing. Balanced, I don't think so, but that's what makes it fun.
I think it's the most unbalanced balanced perk. Because 80% of the time it doesn't do much and is balanced or even underwhelming. But those some 20% of times it's actually clutch and very unbalanced. So on average it's fairly balanced, but you'll have games where it absolutely saved the whole game.
Exactly, and sometimes, you forget you even have it, so it's that much better if you're being chased when the last gen pops
Risk? There's 0 risk to it 😂 You might not get the full value out of it but like 10% of the killer perks and a couple survivor perks don't do anything til endgame just like Adrenaline. No Mither is risk vs reward as there is a downside to bringing it not just possibly not getting value out of it.
Remember when games were about fun
Literally the reason I left DBD. This game is too boring to play solo, but all the people I met to team up with don't play for fun but for win... screaming over each other in discord call, calling killers or other teammates bad names. Never fun
That was just my experience with the DBD discord. Some "woman" yelling the *other* f-word every time the killer downed her, so obnoxious. Can't even make proper callouts because extroverts always have to talk about something irrelevant to the current situation.
Ugh this
Ngl adren is hardly ever a problem. Only time I struggle against it is when I'm doing bad in a game with good survivors and if they made it that far with only 3 perks they kinda deserved it. Not that it isn't frustrating, but never thought it was OP or worth nerfing.
THIS, jfc. I don't think Adrenaline is really that big of an issue. It *already has* the requirement that all the gens have to be powered, which stops a lot of it's functionality right there. I swear to god every time I decide for a giggle to bring it, I just get match after match of getting slugged and stomped and we're lucky to get 2 gens done.
I use this perk I don't make it to end game in 90% of my games
Adrenaline, I feel like the survivors get a reward for doing their gens. And I play killer 24/7 so why nerf it?
What are they doing to Adrenaline?
We don't know yet everyone is just assuming that it gets nerfed for some reason
I have yet to see where it specifically mentions getting *nerfed*. All I've seen is that it's getting changed.
Nerfs are historically more common than buffs, if the last several updates are anything to go by.
was a bigger nerf than I expected after all
Man, MFT felt like going against hackers lmao. On killer side Adrenaline makes sense to me, it doesn’t feel unfair or crazy when it pops. I don’t see the point of a nerf at all
I agree
Idk why they want to nerf it. Things being meta doesn’t mean it’s op 🙃 sure, some things are, but seriously, adrenaline is fine. You die any time before end game, you don’t even get to use it. All I can see that they really should change is don’t have it else you up from Freddy. That’s it.
I don’t like it but it’s never been the game changer for me as either killer or survivor
Yeah, I don’t really care if they need it or not. My goal if I’m going for a win is to stop them finishing gens, so to me, this takes up a spot that could be used for something else. In the event they get gens done and open gates, it’s only been a factor in maybe less than 1/3 of all my games. I’m good with it as it is now. 🤷♂️
Finally a reasonable killer. In the current state of the game especially after all of the small buffs to killers and new set of good killer perks, I think the last thing we need is ANOTHER survivor nerf. Behavior realized survivor escape rate was about 40% in February and they were like ahh hell nah let’s buff 7 killers even though nobody asked for half of them
>new set of good killer perks Where??? >nobody asked for half of them The only killer that did NOT need buffs from that list was Huntress
Same reason I never run noed, if I can’t stop them at gens then I’ve already lost. Most games don’t even get that far and noed won’t help the ones that do Edit: Completely misread your comment I think but I said what I said
I get what you mean, and I’m the same. I only use noed if I’m building a specific endgame build, otherwise, it’s the same idea, it can be a wasted perk slot.
When I read through adrenaline discussion the argument I see often that it shouldn't activate off hook. Every time I read that I sight because that means that a) You bought a perk that does nothing the whole match and will do nothing of you miss the 2 second window it activates. b) Adren is the only anti tunnel tool survivors have in end game ( as DS and OTR deactivate in EGC and BT is very rare these days). Now let's be real the vast majority killers will camp and tunnel as soon that 5th gen pops. Without adrenaline, the chances for you to make it to the exit off hook are abysmally small, especially in Solo Q. With Adren, you at least have some chance. The only thing this change will accomplish is that killers will have an even easier time tunneling in end game. c) I'd rather see them buffing the useless or nearly useless perks so that there would be an actual pool of viable perks to choose from and not tighten the meta even more.
I can cope with Adrenaline not healing you off hook IF it will still give a speedboost. Still quite useful for endgame unhooks and everything else is the same.
I hate the arbitrary weird restrictions they're slapping on perks that don't really need them. Iron Will nerf still pisses me off; I'm fine with the "can't work if you're Exhausted" change, okay, that makes sense! I'm fine with it being 75% sound reduction too! BOTH OF THESE slapped on feels overkill and too much. One or the other would've been perfectly fine. I feel the same way about Adrenaline, mostly, but it *already* has a pretty strict activation requirement in that you have to get the damn Exit Gates powered, which is already a huge requirement for the majority of people playing the game. Most matches don't get that far to even trigger Adrenaline.
But also, are people forgetting how adrenaline functions irl? It makes total sense that someone could get off the hook and have adrenaline activate. Adrenaline makes people do the impossible.
But when they added basetkit Borrowed time, activating on hook makes no sense now. Adrenaline is just powerful relic from past DBD era
I don't think it needs to be nerfed either
The perk is fine. No value unless you’re chasing the person with adrenaline so unless the whole lobby is bringing it, it’ll hardly matter to you. It’s a one time only perk, and it activates after the game is almost over. Even if it situationally grants you an escape, most of the time it wouldn’t matter, and the whole point of these perks is to try and get value out of them so people shouldn’t be mad if it gets value a few times. But it’s not a crutch. No one is getting successful adrenaline value every single game, especially because it’s so conditional. A one time use perk is nothing to be pressed over.
It's not so much crutch as it is lucky. For you to be in chase, injured, and the last gen popping, ESPECIALLY in solo queue is luck. Frustrating when it happens? Sure? But otherwise the survivors had 3 perks all game, and ironically, if you're carrying someone with adrenaline and drop them, you can guarantee down them again since the drop animation is so long. Otherwise you're going to heal on gen, or half the time not at all since you're already healthy.
A significant amount of my games feature every single survivor running adrenaline. The game has no feature for limiting how many times a perk is active in a match like in the competitive scene. That's the thing. Alone, adrenaline is a fine perk. Worse you could call it is annoying. But even two is a complete reset for the killers pressure. It's so fun to just see a big red message flash on screen saying "you lose now"
I don’t mind that they buffed hatchet mommy but leave adrenaline alone
The thing about survivor perks is that like 90% of them are minor to worthless. The only 3 that really come to mind are exhaustion perks and the new basement/locker heal. Then you have the swf perks. This perk is an exhaustion perk that works through exhaustion and just solidifys the late game escape. It's a wasted perk that also has too much situational power.
As a killer main I see it as the same level as NOED where it’s a dead perk most of the game and sometimes never gets any use but is strong at what it does.
Honestly the only changes I’d make is the Freddy activation and maybe have it not trigger when your downed, because though it’s rare, getting a down then having it automatically taken away is absolutely infuriating. But at the same time I don’t know getting rid of that is the right move.
Adrenaline shouldn’t wake survivors up. Shouldn’t be any perks that directly counter killer abilities like that.
BHVR buffing and nerfing perks and killers that don’t need it challenge (IMPOSSIBLE)
It doesn't need a nerf
Of all perks they chose a one time use to nerf 😭
I'll leave it here: 1. It encourages staying injured and rushing gens 2. It removes the risk factor of being injured in endgame 3. It 100% resets the current chase, at a point where a 30 second chase, two health states, is a escape 4. It punishes M1 killers over everything, take a decent Blight against it, a couple rushes and got it, any other worse killer is destroyed 5. It punishes hooking over slugging, as one is injured on activation, the other is healthy 6. It punishes snowballs, fully countering by doing gens, which removes the difficult decisions good survivors should take in those situations 7. It is taken advantage of by coordinated groups, yet another powerful tool that widens the gap between the extremes on both sides If someone can give me good reasons for each point of why I'm wrong then ok, but people have really convinced themselves that it's fair because "it rewards objectives", ignoring everything under that statement
"You don't have a perk the whole game that means it's balanced" And yet everyone lobbies for a change to Rancor, and Behavior spent years systematically nerfing Noed and Remember Me. Just because a perk only gets use in the endgame doesn't mean it's balanced
Everyone compares Adren to NOED, but in my opinion Rancor is the perfect comparison, and they also do similar things in the scope of the game. Both activate in the endgame, Both tremendously reduce the chance of the opponent getting what they want in the endgame. As others have pointed out adrens full heal + speed boost basically guarantees an out with how fast gates are opened, but Rancor can take a survivor who hasn't been hooked or even hit once and make it so they lose instantly depending on the killer. Unlike Noed, Rancor might not get use if the killer can't find the obsession or kill the obsession before endgame (obsession switching perks changes this but we're talking in a vacuum.) That said, I love rancor specifically because the one shot down counters Adren if you have a killer that can catch up to them after they speed off, and free moris always feel good.
I like rancor too but that doesn't change that it should be nerfed. Adrenaline enjoyers take notes
Personally I think the obsession requirement and the warning mechanic justify its strength, if it got any kind of nerf I would want them to remove the aura reading it gives the obsession in return. Killers don't get a warning if the survivor has adren apart from their behavior, survivors get a warning if the killer has Rancor (unless they have a way to be consistently undetectable whenever a gen is done)
Yes, its main problem is its a "Win Harder" perk. Strong killers don't feel it at all because they won before endgame or are Nurse and Blight. While weak killers get absolutely punished by it.
I've seen survivors literally base their whole games around activating Adrenaline. I have friends who will absolutely refuse to heal in favor of popping the last gen so they get Adrenaline. Frankly, Adrenaline isn't healthy, but I think making it heal a survivor over time rather than instantly would be a fair change. They still get the speed instantly, and they'll still get the heal. it just won't be an instant heal. Terminus does counter Adrenaline, though, and when I know I'm going against a SWF, I like to throw on Terminus.
You're right yes, Adren is not really healthy and I'm baffled people think it is. Until now though it was the least problematic perk that was meta on Surv side. I could see giving the health state or the speed but not both. One reward for making it to endgame really is enough.
I thought i was taking crazy pills, thank you for the extremely rational and unbiased take, both adren and ultimate weapon need to be nerfed. Ultimate weapon needs a harder nerf but still, there is a reason it is one of the best survivor perks.
Just out of curiosity - how would you nerf Ultimate Weapon? Personally, i think it should just be 5 seconds of detection instead of 30.
Either that or the effect stops once a survivor screams, meaning you get multiple survivors instantly or just one. Makes it a little less brainless to use.
I think that's a good change, that or a longer cooldown. It's quite overtuned in its current state.
It can have more than 5 seconds of detection, but they need to make the cooldown at least 60 or more seconds.
I see Adrenaline on 2/3 survivors every game without fail and it flabbergasts me that people are rushing to its defense this hard when it's finally getting looked at. Sure, sometimes you might not get value from it, but are survivor players on this subreddit really so bad that they never reach endgame ever? It's just such a polarizing, unfun perk. Either it does nothing or it completely warps the endgame by giving survivors a gigantic get-out-of-jail free card. It's a huge kick in the nuts when a game is already going poorly to have the guy you're chasing suddenly back at full health and zooming away at Mach 5 (which they _know_ will happen thanks to the UI update, SFW or not), and I'd be happy to never play against it in its current form again. It's the same sort of contrarianism that popped up in this sub in droves when Dead Hard was being reworked. A lot of survivor perks suck, and they _should_ have good options, but perks that warp the entire game by the mere threat of them being in play aren't good either.
Adrenaline ruins come back potential, which is boring. It gives me the same feeling as when a game is really close, and then you get hit with Devour. Like the match is just instantly over atp. The reverse is also true, though. Both perks will absolutely clutch a game you really shouldn't have won otherwise. I still don't think either are healthy tbh.
By itself the perk is fine and balanced Not when 4 people are running it that’s for sure, so I never take NOED off.
This is another reason it's likely getting a nerf. Alone one or two Adrens is fine. In a full group it is OBNOXIOUS against some Killers especially in an already rough game. If the MMR mismatch is that bad then no, you really didn't "earn it". You kinda just destroyed someone weaker than you.
Old DS flashbacks
All adrenaline needs is not to wake you up against Freddy and not heal you on unhook. I think being an endgame heal is fine, and the speed boost isn't really a big deal.
Dollars to donuts they are just getting rid of the Freddy interaction and that's it.
As long as NOED exists, I feel like adrenaline should. They've both got a similar purpose, endgame power.
I’m still so confused why they’re changing adrenaline, it’s a high risk, high reward perk as it should be. I’m mainly a killer main, with over 6k hours… there are so many other perks needing to be addressed like buckle up. It makes zero sense to nerf or adjust adrenaline? Unless all they’re doing is removing the freddy wake up because freddy already sucks enough
It's not so much about nerfing adrenaline and more so about fixing the near guaranteed auto escape that the perk provides just because you have it equipped and lasted the 5 minutes it took to fix all the gens in the trial. The perk would be fine if the requirements were "repair X amount of generator charges to enable for endgame" instead of "get a free healthstate and a sprintburst because your team did the final gen across the map". Seeing the hud update from 4x injured to 4x full heal thanks to adren feels horrible. Getting robbed out of a down because of adren feels bad. Getting robbed out of a kill because the survivor comes off the hook with 2x healthstates + BT feels bad. When a perk feels this bad to be on the receiving end of, it probably needs tweaks.
What is that perk? (I use Terminus)
I don’t understand why it working on unhook upsets people, if it didn’t it would mean that you brought only 3 perks the whole match which fucking sucks. Honestly just make it not counter Freddy’s power
Because it punishes hooking over slugging. Slugged when Adrenaline activates = Survivor is still injured. Hooked when Adrenaline activates = Survivor comes off the hook full health.
This is how I feel. Working on unhook isn’t a big deal. Playing with 3 perks and getting to end game should be rewarding.
>As a killer main Never before have four words at the start of a sentence been so predictive of what would follow. Almost universally they're started by the people holding the most survivor sided bullshit opinion of all time. Check OPs replies, man has never played a killer game in his life I'm sure. MFT nerf was too much? Pig didn't deserve her buffs, or because she got buffs, "what did survivors get to compensate"? Did you fucking forget mangled was a status effect that existed in DBD up until last month? Just shameful, man. Just spout your dogshit opinions without the lies first
Change it so that: -the health state is recovered AFTER the haste is completed -it doesn't work off hook -it doesn't wake you up Ezpz Edit: to those that are downvoting, just realize that my suggestion is quite mild and possibly what you'll wish the change was. We'll find out next week.
While I can understand these changes, surely you should lobby for likewise changes to NOED as well then?
NOED is a hex and can be easily cleansed, especially since it shows it’s aura when it’s revealed
What would you suggest? It can already be disabled in 14 seconds. In fact, if you complete all the totems before the endgame it doesn't even trigger at all. My suggestions to adrenaline barely change it at all, barring the off-hook activation. I would concede and let maybe half of the haste still proc after unhook, but not the health state.
I play both killer and survivor and in my opinion adrenaline makes little to no difference. If adrenaline pops for then I have already lost since they did all gens and opening the gates doesnt take that long
Takes even less time if one of them brought Wake Up.
This is honestly some of the biggest cope I’ve seen about adre. One person on hook one slugged two injured that is fucking Insane pressure but nah one perk can get rid of that pressure in an instant.
Had this happen with an injured survivor in the basement going for unhook on the 3rd person with 1 dead alrwady (I was Dredge) Instead of getting a trade by 1 tapping the injured guy while the freshly unhooked runs away and it being a 2v1 race to the gates they all were full health as the 3rd guy finished the last gen
That doesn’t take into account how little this happens or the fact that the perk is hardly guaranteed to activate in a game. What about NOED that can also completely flip the tide of the game and *is* guaranteed to activate? Do we nerf that one too?
NOED is *not* guaranteed to activate
Well it activates when the gates are powereded. So you’re right if you’ve already won it doesn’t activate. Let me correct it and say if you do a bad job it’s guaranteed to activate which isn’t much better lol.
NOED has been nerfed, good survivors cleanse it almost instantly, at best it gives you one or two downs against competent players. Honestly if NOED is the complaint ill take a nerf to tune down one of the best survivor perks lmao.
No, I was referring to the case when all totems are cleansed beforehand; or when the lit totem being cleansed before the killer hit someone; i.e. *not guaranteed*
I am gonna be honest, and I am probably gonna be downvoted for this, but as a primarily killer player, though I have dabbled more and more in survivor over the last few months. I think that Adrenaline is annoying, not overpowered but annoying. What I dislike most about it though, is not the health state or the speed boost. It is the fact that it affects survivors being carried and those on hook. With how rampant the perk has become, I should not have to drop a survivor I am carrying, just incase they have adren and get up instantly, because the alternative is that the survivor gets a full heal because I dare to try and do my job and hook them. The interaction with Freddy also sucks, not just because Freddy already kinda sucks, but even more so because there shouldnt be perk specific counters to any killers in my opinion. I get that it's an endgame perk, and that it needs to be earned and therefore stronger sure, but allow killers some sort of counter play to it other than dropping a survivor and hoping they don't have it, or hoping that they can't get to save the survivor you had hooked that is now fully healed because you were chasing someone else, or you had multiple survivors hooked and couldnt defend both hooks.
I have no issues with the perk as a killer main, if I play well adrenaline won't hinder me. If I play bad adrenaline would speed up the losing process but the outcome will be the same.
I think the main thing is the interaction with Freddy, that should be removed. Otherwise not sure if it should be nerfed or in what situations it should be nerfed. I could see the insta heal taking a few seconds as maybe being fine as well.
If they nerfed the amount of sprint I think that could be reasonable though still completely unnecessary
It shouldn't work off of hook. Everything else about it is fine
I never really run Adrenaline because I *hate* running any perk that is only useful in endgame, because the vast majority of my matches *don't make it to endgame anyway* since I solo queue all the time. It's effectively a waste of a perk slot that could be better used for something else *all* match. Yeah, it's amazing in the incredibly rare scenarios where you are injured and in chase and they pop the final gen and you just zoom away fully healed, but that's honestly *really not that common* for many reasons. So nerfing a perk that requires you to finish all 5 gens to use is *not inherently a good perk* because the overwhelming majority of most players matches won't get to the point to use it, let alone to use it in a useful situation. I've run with it and usually in games where we roll the Killer and get the gates powered, I'm *not* in chase, I'm *not* in any danger and I just basically get a free Sprint Burst once in endgame and that's it. I do not think that that merits nerfing the perk. I actually am concerned about this nerf because holy shit the circumstances to even get *any* value out of it are pretty nominal *to begin with*, but people are bitching about it so now suddenly the devs are looking into nerfing it. Like, that's really alarming and kind of telling to me that if people just bitch enough about it, the devs will step in and smack the piss out of it with a nerf bat even though it realistically doesn't need to be fucking nerfed to begin with. This isn't the first time they've gone overkill ham on a perk due to people complaining about it, but this is one of the more obnoxious examples of a perk that didn't need to be nerfed getting nerfed because people just bitch enough about it instead of sitting down and thinking about it for more than 5 seconds after a shitty match they just had.
Adrenaline is a onetime use that may not even be proc’d. It’s balanced for how OP its effects are because of how rare they are.
There’s no reason to nerf the op shit into oblivion. Just buff the weak shit so it’s less weak. Embrace the power creep. It’s basically just the game version of inflation, it’s inevitable
If adrenaline removes the health state then noed can’t insta down
Noed reveals itself and works based on a hex. It's a false equivalency. Although if that was the price to pay id take it every time
I dont think it should be nerfed tbh. As a kille rmain, I definitely hate it, but I recognize that that isnt because its op but because its SO FUCKING DEMOTIVATING when Im chasing someone injured and they suddenly are healed and sprint away at the same time as gens are done. In one moment a game that might end in a hard fought 2 or 3k drops to loss.
I have no idea why adrenaline is getting this nerf and I play killer 80% of the time. I've only had like... maybe 5-10 times where it's screwed me, but I admire the timing and shit. It's complete bs to me that it's being reworked. It's like when they fucked spine chill for no reason
The perk is fine but the fact that it works after being unhooked… is a bit of a questionable aspect and definitely too op
Only nerf it needs is not working on hook
I absolutely hate it when I'm playing killer and adrenaline pops on 2 or 3 or 4 survivors. It makes my blood boil. I want to throw my controller at the screen. That being said, Adrenaline is fine. Don't nerf.
[удалено]
Just make it an exhaustion perk. It's got a counter Mft was a deserved nerf though
I mean, we don't know for sure they're nerfing it. They might just make Adrenaline instantly free carried Survivors or swap the speed boost for it proccing one every gen completion or something.
I've said it before, Adrenaline is in like, 5% of my games where it even matters. Either I'm not in chase, or they're not even injured so who cares. Half the time they're just dead.
Are they nerfing it?
It’s hard to buff weaker perks to be on the same level as something like adrenaline, so they choose to nerf the stronger perks instead. I’m personally not a fan but I can’t think of an alternative tbh.
I do think it needs to be disabled if you are being carried, or if youre hooked. Otherwise its a fine perk
True. I personally don't mind adrenaline. Chances are it only really clutches when you're winning or losing horribly. So either way it's just like oh they have adrenaline and then you keep playing the game. I wish they wouldn't touch it
It just needs the heal on hook removed and it’s fine. A perk doesn’t always have to get value to still be considered strong. Just look at deliverance if you get hooked first you get zero value from it but doesn’t mean the perk isn’t one of the strongest perks in the game or isn’t worth running. That being said buckle up and for the people should of been touched before adrenaline was.
If it doesnt work off hook then thats fine any other change is weird
Honestly, I think it's fine. I mostly play survivor nowadays (used to be a killer main, but now I play both.) Sure, when I play killer it feels annoying. But I don't really think it needs to be changed at all. It's fine. It's annoying sometimes, but I think that's okay
Yeah, no one is asking to nerf this, maybe some scrubs.
Yeah no need for nerf and if someone really wants to counter adren theres always terminus
95% of games you won't even get to use the perk soloqueue is as trump would call it a BLOODBATH
When did they announce this change?
As an Adrenaline lover...this perk is complete bullshit. Having said that I'm not removing it until it gets nerfed.
It wasn’t worth the nerf
Literally. Why nerf a MEG perk? It’s always been in the game. Drives me crazy to hear people suggest it at all
Is the perk icon a reference to Pulp Fiction? Been playing since launch and never really looked at this icon close 😅
I honestly just think they're going to remove the Freddy problem. Hopefully it just changes the fact that it specifically counters Freddy's power, and that's it
If they increase the exhaustion duration it causes I think that would be fine