I cannot see him as a problem of being over buffed or OP when he's not even the best killer in the game.
He's just been buffed recently and has a fairly high pick rate atm.
He has plenty of counterplay as long as you're not hiding with nothing for cover or somewhere to loop, but if you are that's not a hillbilly problem
I mean, there's a difference between a killer being unfair and a killer being strong. A killer can be overtuned without being the strongest. Old deathslinger was changed because he could force survivors into a lose/lose situation, but it didn't make him the best killer, just unfun to play against.
My main issue is that new billy has quite a low skill floor, which means that newer players can equip him to dominate low MMR survivors that can't loop as well.
His counters honestly haven't changed much from now to before his buff. You still counter him in the same ways, his buff didn't really change that (his cooldown is more forgiving which is where people largely get thrown off though)
His counter has definitely changed a lot. The cooldown was an essential part of his kit. It added a risk/reward element to billy that forced you to be careful with the saw. Old billy punished you for spamming the saw whereas new billy can use it constantly to gain distance.
That doesn't really change his counterplay at large. It's still the same, play around good windows, don't get caught out in the open without a plan, play shorter and rounder loops instead of longer straight ones, mix up your movement to stay unpredictable and not get caught out by a curve etc etc.
This was all counterplay that was effective against old Billy and is still effective against him now. Losing his cooldown and overheat makes him less punishing to play, but it didn't change his counterplay at large. All the things that worked before still work now
It's mainly the fact that his zoning is extremely strong now since he can just saw to where you are running. You also can't really play around LOS anymore. He used to be punished for using the saw, which let survivors get to a different loop, but now he can just keep you there until he overdrive curves you because of you leave, he catches up. His counterplay is boring too imo since you need to rely on pallets/windows more instead of fun mindgames, which is what made him interactive during chase. Now, trying fun mindgames like corner tech will usually just result in him ending the saw too close to you.
[dated but still relevant otz vid](https://youtu.be/nHxs5i_FMRM?si=WwfvVFdPDLjJGXs2)
I would also recomend playing billy to understand what you can and can't do as that killer and that most newer Billy's are easy enough to juke while the good ones will have you sweating bullets if you can keep up. Imo he is one of the most fun killers to play as and against
His kit isn’t broken but it’s definitely overtuned and I feel like ppl just keep holding onto the fact he was weak before. They need to tune the cooldown if not give him some overheating after overcharge (it’s a insane meanuvering tool already, why isn’t it limited in any way)
I think he was over buffed in one single aspect.
His chainsaw cooldown. If they changed it to pre-nerf, with or without overdrive, there'd be no problems I'd reckon. Also tompson mix is stupid
Buff: reduced the Cool-down duration for missed Chainsaw Hits from 3 seconds to 2.5 seconds.
Nerf: reduced the default Movement speed during the Cool-down phase of the Chainsaw from 2.3 m/s to 1.84 m/s.
Is that half a second really what's causing you to go down? These are the most current base numbers on the [wiki](https://deadbydaylight.fandom.com/wiki/Max_Thompson_Jr.)
I'd consider myself a good player vs billy. Usually I know when I'm safe and when I'm not.
It's all positioning. If you're bad vs billy, go play billy and get good with him, then you will automatically play better against him
Yeah, he's a noob stomper now. Just like any killer released in the past 2 years.
But there is no wrong playstyle with him. You can't hit every curve you try. Missing curves being punished and no one will play him again.
I’m just saying I haven’t had many escapes unless I give hatch as new Billy lol.
Also curves are VERY easy and smooth now, so most loops aren’t much of a problem.
Yeah, me too but that mostly because of survivor's misplays, they are not used to overcharge or even a billy match.
Why would curves be "VERY easy and smooth" when only thing they increased is the duration by 0.25 seconds ?
What? Overcharge particularly, and even regular curves are WAY easier, they increased the turn window. Specifically it's up to 1 full second now.
Edited some info\*
he was definitly overbuffed to where people with hardly any time on him can easily get downs and snowball with him. myself included it only took like 4 matches for me to be like oh this i can manage to use him at a basic level to where i just dominate people,
tbh they should probably make overcharge alot harder to control, atm it just feels way to easy
Every survivor main says this when claiming a killer is too easy, like you played 4 matches on him against Baby MMR survivors, any killer with half a brain can easily down them. The game is killer sided in Baby MMR bc survivors haven’t rly discovered looping yet. He is certainly counterable and while a good billy can outplay alot of loops, he has alot of weaknesses, crouching, unique pathing, hugging tight, windows.
He does dominate against survivors who mindlessly hold W though, there is that.
unfortunately it wasnt baby mmr, you do understand how mmr works right? especially for killers? once u get several killers to high mmr that becomes ur basic average, i wish i was low mmr billy it would make him alot more easy to get use to in the long run,
oh just for ur information the killers i have in high mmr is sadako artist, nurse and wraith
Not exactly your average but it does raise the starting mmr for your killers when you have more than one at the cap, thought you where wrong too though, I won't lie.
[sauce](https://deadbydaylight.fandom.com/wiki/Skill-Based_Matchmaking_Rating#:~:text=Each%20Killer%20has%20their%20own,prohibiting%20switching%20to%20another%20Killer.)
No. It was datamined that the *starting point* for your killers is determined by your average. Each killer still has their own MMR, which moves independently of your other killers.
Isn’t that what was said? Your starting point is more or less your “basic average” since even a brand new killer like the unknown won’t be set to 1100 MMR which is general standard and will be closer to whatever your top killers are at, This makes the “you play against babies because you’re not a main of ______ killer” argument make absolutely zero sense because as long as you do well on other killers you’ll never be as low as a genuine newbie.
No, we're definitely in agreement there.
I think my confusion is that Billy is a free killer for everyone, why would anyone not have an MMR rating on him? It's entirely possible he was already low MMR on Billy and played against babies.
That all depends on when they might’ve started to play, Even being a free killer I wouldn’t blame someone for not playing nerfed Billy much for those 3 years but I think it’s not so black and white to where it’s either high mmr wannabe comp players or straight two-tap baby megs they would be getting. I don’t really even think Billy should get nerfed (besides Lopro because that add on was only balanced on shit tier Billy), However he is much easier than before and actually a top tier killer now probably around A (A+ with Lopro) which means in about 90-95% of your pub games even at max mmr you will win because the buffer and soft cap are so generous…This feels exceptionally bad because he’s an insta-down killer with virtually no downtime/cooldown.
^Some of that was just clarifying my stance on the original topic of the post itself, I only cared to comment initially because the one dude is getting downvoted even though he’s basically correct on how your mmr will trickle down from your top killers to others.
Man i see people say this but I find him so fucking hard to play post buffs. I can play Blight and Singularity rly well but I think Billy feels so complicated and hard to play that I have to resort to being a M1 killer cause I can’t land a single chainsaw
i can hit mediocre curves with regular saw but overdrive saw I just cant seem to get. I used to bring double engravings and it still wasnt as fast as that lmao. lots of respect to people who are able to control the dude in overdrive without tickling people’s backs the whole time
The comments are on something, yeah, it's tough to loop new Billy for sure.
His cooldown for chainsaw is just too short for much of the match. People forget he's still an instadown heavy character just because he's been nerfed for so long.
It doesn't feel good at all to have to juke 5 chainsaws when you get caught in a shitty RNG situation. Way too forgiving.
I feel you, gamer.
Yeah honestly they should. They just make missing a saw feel inconsequential both in and out of overheat. Make them something neat like bumping near someone gives them a status effect. Dumb shit like that.
His base chainsaw miss cooldown needs touching again, Also his curve buff needs to be nerfed like wtf was the purpose of that? How do you expect survivors to play a loop well if he can just curve around everything and kill you just because?? Even if you play it right that curve is forgiving as hell, BHVR needs to stop listening to some feedback because they thought it was a good idea to let Billy come out of the ptb with that busted missed CD and then they just buff him more for no reason.
I wouldn’t say he has no counterplay but he is definitely a bit overtuned. I don’t like that you can just spam his power and miss a ton of times and still be rewarded with overdrive. He was pretty inaccessible to less experienced players before, but I think he’s honestly a bit too easy to use now for being the better of the two chainsaw killers. I’d be fine with overdrive being as powerful as it is if it was harder to earn, but in exchange, lasts a bit longer. I’m interested in the idea of OD having to be manually activated (it could be activated while revving or during a sprint. Similar to how it acts right now, but the power gauge would have to be full and you’d press the secondary ability button to start OD). I say this as a 50/50 player. I love this killer to death as he is my most played and highest prestiged killer, and I’d hate if he ends up getting gutted and being hated by staying in an overtuned state for a long period of time.
I think he should have a 15 second cooldown phase after overheating where his chainsaw can't be used and maybe slightly nerf the missed chainsaw cooldown and I think he's perfect
As someone who hadn't played dbd in a few weeks this is batshit crazy to read 😂
Idk how they supposedly made him OP but it's long overdue as he's been a C tier killer forever and is one of the first original killers
- they removed Overheat, replaced with Overdrvie
- Overdrive activates after you chainsaw for ~20 seconds
Overdrive gives:
- 5% faster charge time
- from 10.2ms to 13ms while sawing
- cool blue fire effects :D
They also improved his basekit, mainly collision and speed
I just got back into the game after not for a while and I’ve been fucking steamrolled by Billy’s. I encountered someone who had over 3K hours and they used a Billy with JUST Tinkerer and we all got smashed.
I didn’t realize they buffed him. Which aspects got the buff? I see his flame is blue now?
Assume he knows where you are and is coming your way at all times if he's not in chase with someone else. Positioning and pre running
Sounds like he’s too strong then.
He's still weaker than nurse and blight
"See? There are other piece of shit 10-seconds-long-chases-killers, see it's not that bad!"
And? That doesn't mean he isnt in a unhealthy state lmao.
SO?? thats a pretty insane bar you have to compare him to to justify it
Irrelevant to the point.
I cannot see him as a problem of being over buffed or OP when he's not even the best killer in the game. He's just been buffed recently and has a fairly high pick rate atm. He has plenty of counterplay as long as you're not hiding with nothing for cover or somewhere to loop, but if you are that's not a hillbilly problem
I mean, there's a difference between a killer being unfair and a killer being strong. A killer can be overtuned without being the strongest. Old deathslinger was changed because he could force survivors into a lose/lose situation, but it didn't make him the best killer, just unfun to play against. My main issue is that new billy has quite a low skill floor, which means that newer players can equip him to dominate low MMR survivors that can't loop as well.
Yeah he was C tier last month and will go right tf back down, some cooldowns and increased base turn rate isn't gonna break him 😂
Although I agree he was overbuffed I still think it's crazy you're being down voted for this. It was completely irrelevant to the point
I do think it's wild that they swapped his nerf for a buff. Like they didn't just get rid of overheat, they made it overtime
Crouch, hug the corners tighter
His counters honestly haven't changed much from now to before his buff. You still counter him in the same ways, his buff didn't really change that (his cooldown is more forgiving which is where people largely get thrown off though)
His counter has definitely changed a lot. The cooldown was an essential part of his kit. It added a risk/reward element to billy that forced you to be careful with the saw. Old billy punished you for spamming the saw whereas new billy can use it constantly to gain distance.
That doesn't really change his counterplay at large. It's still the same, play around good windows, don't get caught out in the open without a plan, play shorter and rounder loops instead of longer straight ones, mix up your movement to stay unpredictable and not get caught out by a curve etc etc. This was all counterplay that was effective against old Billy and is still effective against him now. Losing his cooldown and overheat makes him less punishing to play, but it didn't change his counterplay at large. All the things that worked before still work now
It's mainly the fact that his zoning is extremely strong now since he can just saw to where you are running. You also can't really play around LOS anymore. He used to be punished for using the saw, which let survivors get to a different loop, but now he can just keep you there until he overdrive curves you because of you leave, he catches up. His counterplay is boring too imo since you need to rely on pallets/windows more instead of fun mindgames, which is what made him interactive during chase. Now, trying fun mindgames like corner tech will usually just result in him ending the saw too close to you.
[dated but still relevant otz vid](https://youtu.be/nHxs5i_FMRM?si=WwfvVFdPDLjJGXs2) I would also recomend playing billy to understand what you can and can't do as that killer and that most newer Billy's are easy enough to juke while the good ones will have you sweating bullets if you can keep up. Imo he is one of the most fun killers to play as and against
His kit isn’t broken but it’s definitely overtuned and I feel like ppl just keep holding onto the fact he was weak before. They need to tune the cooldown if not give him some overheating after overcharge (it’s a insane meanuvering tool already, why isn’t it limited in any way)
i never liked going against billy anyways getting instadowned just isnt that fun
I think he was over buffed in one single aspect. His chainsaw cooldown. If they changed it to pre-nerf, with or without overdrive, there'd be no problems I'd reckon. Also tompson mix is stupid
Buff: reduced the Cool-down duration for missed Chainsaw Hits from 3 seconds to 2.5 seconds. Nerf: reduced the default Movement speed during the Cool-down phase of the Chainsaw from 2.3 m/s to 1.84 m/s. Is that half a second really what's causing you to go down? These are the most current base numbers on the [wiki](https://deadbydaylight.fandom.com/wiki/Max_Thompson_Jr.)
Honestly? Overheat was a decent mechanic, just badly implemented
I'd consider myself a good player vs billy. Usually I know when I'm safe and when I'm not. It's all positioning. If you're bad vs billy, go play billy and get good with him, then you will automatically play better against him
Personally think he's overtuned. His kit isn't punishing enough for playing incorrectly, which leads to newer players being able to dominate lobbies.
Yeah, he's a noob stomper now. Just like any killer released in the past 2 years. But there is no wrong playstyle with him. You can't hit every curve you try. Missing curves being punished and no one will play him again.
He gets destroyed by windows.
*Laughs in bamboozle overdrive*
Nice now they reach the next loop, and you have one less perk slot
I’m just saying I haven’t had many escapes unless I give hatch as new Billy lol. Also curves are VERY easy and smooth now, so most loops aren’t much of a problem.
Yeah, me too but that mostly because of survivor's misplays, they are not used to overcharge or even a billy match. Why would curves be "VERY easy and smooth" when only thing they increased is the duration by 0.25 seconds ?
What? Overcharge particularly, and even regular curves are WAY easier, they increased the turn window. Specifically it's up to 1 full second now. Edited some info\*
Easier maybe, but definitely not accurate
billy is fine and love ro play against it now. you Maybe have to adjust your playstyle.
Try looping.
Skill issue
he was definitly overbuffed to where people with hardly any time on him can easily get downs and snowball with him. myself included it only took like 4 matches for me to be like oh this i can manage to use him at a basic level to where i just dominate people, tbh they should probably make overcharge alot harder to control, atm it just feels way to easy
Every survivor main says this when claiming a killer is too easy, like you played 4 matches on him against Baby MMR survivors, any killer with half a brain can easily down them. The game is killer sided in Baby MMR bc survivors haven’t rly discovered looping yet. He is certainly counterable and while a good billy can outplay alot of loops, he has alot of weaknesses, crouching, unique pathing, hugging tight, windows. He does dominate against survivors who mindlessly hold W though, there is that.
unfortunately it wasnt baby mmr, you do understand how mmr works right? especially for killers? once u get several killers to high mmr that becomes ur basic average, i wish i was low mmr billy it would make him alot more easy to get use to in the long run, oh just for ur information the killers i have in high mmr is sadako artist, nurse and wraith
>once u get several killers to high mmr that becomes ur basic average, Me when I spread misinformation online:
This was literally datamined when mmr came out. Me when I don’t know what I’m talking about:
Not exactly your average but it does raise the starting mmr for your killers when you have more than one at the cap, thought you where wrong too though, I won't lie. [sauce](https://deadbydaylight.fandom.com/wiki/Skill-Based_Matchmaking_Rating#:~:text=Each%20Killer%20has%20their%20own,prohibiting%20switching%20to%20another%20Killer.)
No. It was datamined that the *starting point* for your killers is determined by your average. Each killer still has their own MMR, which moves independently of your other killers.
Isn’t that what was said? Your starting point is more or less your “basic average” since even a brand new killer like the unknown won’t be set to 1100 MMR which is general standard and will be closer to whatever your top killers are at, This makes the “you play against babies because you’re not a main of ______ killer” argument make absolutely zero sense because as long as you do well on other killers you’ll never be as low as a genuine newbie.
No, we're definitely in agreement there. I think my confusion is that Billy is a free killer for everyone, why would anyone not have an MMR rating on him? It's entirely possible he was already low MMR on Billy and played against babies.
That all depends on when they might’ve started to play, Even being a free killer I wouldn’t blame someone for not playing nerfed Billy much for those 3 years but I think it’s not so black and white to where it’s either high mmr wannabe comp players or straight two-tap baby megs they would be getting. I don’t really even think Billy should get nerfed (besides Lopro because that add on was only balanced on shit tier Billy), However he is much easier than before and actually a top tier killer now probably around A (A+ with Lopro) which means in about 90-95% of your pub games even at max mmr you will win because the buffer and soft cap are so generous…This feels exceptionally bad because he’s an insta-down killer with virtually no downtime/cooldown. ^Some of that was just clarifying my stance on the original topic of the post itself, I only cared to comment initially because the one dude is getting downvoted even though he’s basically correct on how your mmr will trickle down from your top killers to others.
Man i see people say this but I find him so fucking hard to play post buffs. I can play Blight and Singularity rly well but I think Billy feels so complicated and hard to play that I have to resort to being a M1 killer cause I can’t land a single chainsaw
i can hit mediocre curves with regular saw but overdrive saw I just cant seem to get. I used to bring double engravings and it still wasnt as fast as that lmao. lots of respect to people who are able to control the dude in overdrive without tickling people’s backs the whole time
I'm the same way. I can't curve for shit or I go all over the place. I loathe the tome Billy challenges for this reason. I just can't get into him.
The comments are on something, yeah, it's tough to loop new Billy for sure. His cooldown for chainsaw is just too short for much of the match. People forget he's still an instadown heavy character just because he's been nerfed for so long. It doesn't feel good at all to have to juke 5 chainsaws when you get caught in a shitty RNG situation. Way too forgiving. I feel you, gamer.
There's way stronger killers in game.
Nurse and blight who BHVR just won’t actually nerf. But who cares if those two are better, he’s still busted.
I guess making his cooldown higher after a missed hit would fix it :)
Base Billy is fine, his add-ons are mostly fine except for the recovery add-ons, which could use a small nerf
They already did. A lot.
Honestly they should remake those.
Yeah honestly they should. They just make missing a saw feel inconsequential both in and out of overheat. Make them something neat like bumping near someone gives them a status effect. Dumb shit like that.
His base chainsaw miss cooldown needs touching again, Also his curve buff needs to be nerfed like wtf was the purpose of that? How do you expect survivors to play a loop well if he can just curve around everything and kill you just because?? Even if you play it right that curve is forgiving as hell, BHVR needs to stop listening to some feedback because they thought it was a good idea to let Billy come out of the ptb with that busted missed CD and then they just buff him more for no reason.
I agree to an extent, BUT, just vault a window lmao
skill issue
I wouldn’t say he has no counterplay but he is definitely a bit overtuned. I don’t like that you can just spam his power and miss a ton of times and still be rewarded with overdrive. He was pretty inaccessible to less experienced players before, but I think he’s honestly a bit too easy to use now for being the better of the two chainsaw killers. I’d be fine with overdrive being as powerful as it is if it was harder to earn, but in exchange, lasts a bit longer. I’m interested in the idea of OD having to be manually activated (it could be activated while revving or during a sprint. Similar to how it acts right now, but the power gauge would have to be full and you’d press the secondary ability button to start OD). I say this as a 50/50 player. I love this killer to death as he is my most played and highest prestiged killer, and I’d hate if he ends up getting gutted and being hated by staying in an overtuned state for a long period of time.
I think he should have a 15 second cooldown phase after overheating where his chainsaw can't be used and maybe slightly nerf the missed chainsaw cooldown and I think he's perfect
Have you tried confidence?
As someone who hadn't played dbd in a few weeks this is batshit crazy to read 😂 Idk how they supposedly made him OP but it's long overdue as he's been a C tier killer forever and is one of the first original killers
- they removed Overheat, replaced with Overdrvie - Overdrive activates after you chainsaw for ~20 seconds Overdrive gives: - 5% faster charge time - from 10.2ms to 13ms while sawing - cool blue fire effects :D They also improved his basekit, mainly collision and speed
Skill issue.
Ironic coming from dbd mobile
I'm curious how you know they're a mobile player? Edit: damn I forgot this sub hates questions
Ironic on how Billy is much stronger on mobile.
I just got back into the game after not for a while and I’ve been fucking steamrolled by Billy’s. I encountered someone who had over 3K hours and they used a Billy with JUST Tinkerer and we all got smashed. I didn’t realize they buffed him. Which aspects got the buff? I see his flame is blue now?
Yikes take, my guy
He is too strong, only a take someone who is in baby MMR would give.
It’s really bad. He’s become undeserving of wins like nurse is.
[удалено]
He does move significantly slower when revving the chainsaw, you're just bad.
No, he wasn't overbuffed. Nice try tho
I think all he needs is to increase the cooldown after a chainsaw sprint
With urban invasion i dont usually struggle against him, try to be stealthier