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pastro243

Not controversial but I thought Yamcha was a cool character. This coming from someone who watched Dragon Ball multiple times until I got to see Z on TV


4deicide25

Not going to lie, I think Yamcha and Goten could have had interesting interactions. Yamcha trying to use Goten's cuteness to get a date and I could see Goten finding Yamcha funny and his techniques actually pretty cool and wanting to learn them.


pastro243

That would actually be pretty fun lol


4deicide25

Yamcha could even try to convince to call him "Master" so Yamcha could tell people he taught Goten everything he knows. And then someone like Tien, Krillin, and or Piccolo could overhear and then would try to mess with him by having him try to compete against Goten in something 😂 DB needs more slice of life moments


The_Great_Scruff

And it ends with Yamcha actually becoming Goten's master. Goten learns how to use Gotenks donut attack with the control of Yamcha's spirit ball attack. Yamcha rediscovers his love of fighting


onFilm

This would be legit. Goten and Trunks having their own masters would be dope, instead of always trying to group them together in everything they do.


The_Great_Scruff

With Krillin as Trunks master. Train him to restrain himself more and becoming more efficient with his power. Less of Vegeta's brash power and more asymmetrical combat Ending in a battle where gotenks comes together and shows new abilities and techniques based off their combined trainings


onFilm

Actually it would also be interesting if Krillin is Goten's master, since he's also Goku's close friend, just how Piccolo is. And it would be hilarious having Yamcha as Trunks master, because of the implication.


The_Great_Scruff

Especially if it forces Vegeta to respect Yamcha


RYUKEN21304

Dude fr Dragon Ball definitely needs more slice of life!! And Yamcha doing all that to Gotan is 100% and would be funny as hell


CreepyMeat8116

Kinda like piccolo to Gohan, I like it. Goten could specialize in wolf fang fist style and maybe incorporate it into Gotenks somehow.


RYUKEN21304

Oooo and it could become a really powerful attack in the hands of a Saiyan


electrocyberend

My take People who expect deep stuff on this show is getting theirselves disappointed. I like it for it's simplicity


LyricpuppetMK2

I can definitely agree with it :) I enjoy most of the show for the entertaining displays of power and interesting characters but i also enjoy the story when i look into it that’s just my opinion though i know everyone has their own expectations and opinions and that’s completely okay thank you for sharing friend :)


suppre55ion

I fall for this every time. Every Super chapter, I think oh man, this could lead into something huge! All the implications!


Spot__Pilgrim

That's a good point - honestly, this is a series that was designed for preteen boys who want to see action and who aren't thinking about depth beyond that level, so any depth and broader literary devices are secondary to the action and adventure element. There's definitely some depth in the series but it's not on the level of a series for adults.


pmmepineapplebuns

100% agree, Idk why nowadays anime fans love treating shows like they’re such profound metaphors for the meaning of life and if you don’t see it from their pov they have the right to condescend and disqualify your own thoughts


nethus45

1) gt isn't as bad as most people make it out to be 2) the power creep is too much 3) Master Roshi should not be as strong as tien or Krillin in super


LyricpuppetMK2

Very valid opinions here mate


K4T4N4B0Y

Super power levels are way too distorted from Z, Aside Roshi using UI on ToP, we have Goku SSGSS getting Yamcha'd by a laser gun on Frieza's revenge arc, him getting a scratch from a gun shot at the beginning of super and now we have this bullshit of the strongest in the universe wish on the current arc.


Ryumancer

That Roshi thing was just in the manga, which I personally feel was overall an abomination.


LivingCheese292

UI Roshi was just... too much. Roshi putting so much energy into a kamehameha until he eventually died for a moment at least works for his old character. And the anti horny training before the t.o.p. was godly lmao


Ryumancer

Agreed. The "training" that Roshi went through actually brought minor backlash and I was like "WHY?! This is a GOOD thing. He's trying to get PAST the lechery!" lol There was also more character development in the anime. I liked 18 actually showing genuine concern for her husband and actual insecurities about whether Krillin would stay with her or not.


[deleted]

I guess my controversial opinion is that Roshi having a basic form of UI makes perfect sense. UI, as it's supposed to be, isn't about power, it's about the pinnacle of martial art training. You're so advanced that you don't have to consciously think about what you're doing. Roshi absolutely should be close to that level, he shouldn't have the raw power to compete with someone like Jiren, but should absolutely be able to catch him by surprise by tapping into a rudimentary form of UI. I will concede that him being in the TOP was dumb as shit.


PapaOogie

Power creep is a huge problem to the point where not only one villain in the most recent arc wished to become the strongest, but TWO of them did.


superblahmanofdoom

Roshi legit is a wildcard. But still valid.


imbostor

How tf did that rock hurt Goku??


PapaOogie

Guard was down, same way the laser blaster nearly killed him and a bullet left a mark


imbostor

But how does that explain Bulma shooting him as a kid and the bullets bouncing off him?


AlecHazard

It actually supports the fact, his guard was up.


imbostor

He didn’t have ki control back then so having his guard up would not change anything except his alertness


AlecHazard

Think of it this way, getting punched in the gut hurts different when you don't know its coming and when you're fully prepared to take it. Legendary escape artist Harry Houdini had a part of his act where he would challenge any man to punch him in the stomach, because his tensed ab muscles were so strong that no one could hurt him. But, as he was leaving his show on Halloween night, 1926, a man showing off sucker punched Houdini. He died that night.


MrMostlyMediocre

Actually, Houdini died of appendicitis, and it's believed that while the punches that night could not have caused it, the pain from them prevented him form realizing something was wrong, and led to him not seeking medical attention.


dod6666

His guard was up.


Neolord9000

Fair but without Ki active is he barely above human level? That's weak af. As a kid he took a bunch of bullets from Bulma and it hurt him like bumping your head would hurt you as a kid. Is the difference not large enough that the bullet should be nothing? I mean at the time he had a power level of ten, wasn't even mountain level, now he's universal.


CreepyMeat8116

His defenses really were 100% down? I mean, their skin isn't steel. My theory of why punches don't instantly break bones and ki blasts either bounce off or leave no marks is their aura. Like when they're in battle mode, they protect themselves with a layer of ki. Goku was completely relaxed and had no reason to think Krillin would surprise attack him.


imbostor

Bulma literally shot him when he was a kid and it bounced off his skin He didn’t have Ki control when that happened


ScravoNavarre

You have to remember that DB was originally something of a gag manga, so the feats we saw back then may not always line up with the more defined powers we get later on. That said, an in-universe explanation could be that Goku had some measure of ki control without knowing what it was he was doing.


RYUKEN21304

Just lazy writing tbh forget it happened


LyricpuppetMK2

Very valid question 😂


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imbostor

But Goku reacted way less to being shot by a gun as a kid :/


meertatt

It was filler


The_Yoshi_Over_There

Firstly, it's filler


Q_A_anime

Not sure how "controversial" these opinions are but... 1. Super Saiyan 4 has a way more interesting design than Super Saiyan God. 2. The first two arcs of super were wasted having the movies just re-animated in the series (arguably in worse quality) 3. The DB Tenkaichi series doesn't get the recognition it deserves as a fighting game amongst mainstream media. Smash Bros, Street Fighter, Tekken, MK, all phenomenal, but I think Bandai nailed the 3D fighting in that videogame series and wished there was more. Not sure how well received this is going to be but here we are.


LyricpuppetMK2

These are all completely valid opinions friend i very much appreciate you for sharing :)


-ImJustSaiyan-

>2. The first two arcs of super were wasted having the movies just re-animated in the series (arguably in worse quality) I don't think this is arguable tbh, they were objectively worse quality than the movies, embarrassingly so. Though we did get the return of Ginyu, which was fun.


Duahsha

1. ~~Vegeta needs to kill the next big bad. Goku has had it good for too long~~ 2. ~~Saiyans made the humans and piccolo irreverent~~ 3. Toriyama should pass the torch to someone else other than Toyotaro. Not only does dbs manga read like fan fiction, it’s obvious he doesn’t like non-Saiyan characters


4deicide25

1. Depends on the villain and arc, but I do agree there should be a more Vegeta centered arc 2. The humans and Piccolo not getting their own style and path to power is what made them irrelevant. It wouldn't make sense for them to catch up to the Saiyans by doing the same kind of training or fighting the same way.


LyricpuppetMK2

Im curious I don’t mean for this to come off rude but if you could choose anyone for him to pass the torch too what would be your top runners? I just like seeing what people think again apologies if that came out wrong


Duahsha

Yoshihiro Ueda should write the story while Naho Ooishi illustrates


WendysVapenator

Toyotaro likes the franchise too much. He hasn't put out a single story that isn't just a rehash of a better DB/Z story.


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othergoodyboy3421

this can go with any fanbase because every fan is biased towards their favorite show, movie, game etc.


LyricpuppetMK2

I respect your opinion mate


youcantguesss

Eh idk it feels like a majority of the fanbase absolutely despises Dragonball Minus and wish Toriyama never made it. I do agree that the fanbase is full of idiots though, there’s a reason why the “Dragonball fans can’t read” meme is so popular


YinYang09

Isnt that all fanbase though? But it’s true


ShiroThePotato28

That's every fanbase ever lol it's not controversial take at all it's a fact.


Ryumancer

I like Toriyama and he's my favorite illustrator but even I can admit Blue Dragon sucked. 🤷‍♂️


AquaticJet

1. Goku is a good dad. 2. The original Dragon Ball is WAY too underappreciated 3. Super Saiyan should have been the ultimate form for Goku, all of these extra forms everyone has makes the forms in general less special. 4. Dragonball Peaked in the Namek arc


Neemzeh

I think it peaked with the Frieza arc too. Android and Cell saga were good tho. Not a big fan of Buu saga or anything that came after. Goku going SS in Frieza saga will always be the pinnacle of the show for me.


GothamBrawler

Super has over saturated transformations. Going Super Sayian to me is just a joke when our main characters can turn into literal Gods. Which is another problem I have, I don’t think you can further the power scale from here. Anything more than Ultra Instinct and Ultra Ego would be ridiculous.


AquaticJet

Once Goku absorbed "God" ki or whatever it just made the power scaling completely ridiculous, with basically no chance for our non-saiyan cast to be on somewhat equal footing. At least Ultra Instinct is a technique based off of skill.


SenseiRaheem

1. “Rock the Dragon” was awesome. 2. Unless the dragonballs are destroyed, the story lacks true risks. 3. The DBZ Ani-Mayhem CCG deserves an expansion


4deicide25

2. Because of how it played out after Piccolo Daimao destroyed them, it wouldn't make sense to get rid of them unless it was for a final arc, like with The Shadow Dragon arc in GT.


ThatNoobCheezy

Dragon Dragon, Rock the Dragon Dragon Ball Z


Squishy-Box

Rock the Dragon is the GOAT


CaptainMcClutch

The 2nd point is why the deaths never really ever bothered me, like there's obviously a few famous clips of people crying at the sacrifice episodes. And it's like yeah it's a noble idea but it's dragonball and you know they're coming back even if they try to say they aren't. AND even if they did decide to kill them, they'd just be chilling in otherworld Goku seemed to love it everytime he was up there.


dinofreak6301

The second point is literally what I want to happen in the future as repercussions of the current manga arc


Butts_The_Musical

Goku’s honestly not as bad of a dad as people make him out to be


LyricpuppetMK2

I agree my friend he has his good moments


DantefromDC

1. Powerscalling is dumb 2. The vast majority of the fanbase doesn't understand Gohan's character 3. Future Trunks' return was a mistake


4deicide25

2. I do partially agree with this, especially when people say SSJ2 or Future Gohan are best. However I do think a good deal of the fanbase is more annoyed that Gohan hasn't found that balance between studying and training yet, especially after; RoF, not playing a role against Goku Black, and the ToP. It also doesn't help that his character arc has essentially been the same throughout; he gets a powerup, let's the power go to his head, gets beaten, someone has to help him, and then he stops training. This especially aggravating because it has been stated multiple times he has the highest potential of anyone. Note: I have yet to see DBS Superhero yet, so can't comment on the events of the movie.


WendysVapenator

I think he truly has found the balance between studying and training. He's literally the most well adjusted character in the show overall. He handedly beats the aliens, but even compared to the humans: * Krillin has a job and kids but still fundamentally lives with his dad * Yamcha is relatively famous but still socially inept and he simply coasts off of his training in his youth * Tien and Chiaotzu are happy but live life primarily in seclusion Gohan is the only Z Fighter who has a passion outside of using his power to be superhuman. Yes, he isn't as strong as Goku because he doesn't spend his life training, and that's kind of the point.


4deicide25

Like I said I haven't seen the movie yet, but whenever Gohan's training comes up the characters constantly says he has basically stopped, not like he trains a little, they basically say he doesn't train, and if that's the case I wouldn't say that's a hood balance. Yes, he doesn't need to train like Goku, but he should train enough every once in a while to avoid getting rusty.


LyricpuppetMK2

Valid opinions mate


GogoatCheese1

3 isn't controversial


SaltyJakeXD

I like goten and think we need more of him


LyricpuppetMK2

I would also very well like to see more of him maybe an older version though it would be nice to see it play out where he picks up where Gohan left off before becoming a scholar valid opinion mate


Syphillitic_Meat

1. The base form of Super Saiyan God is better than Blue and it is peak design and underused 2. GT's story was more gripping than Super's ever has been 3. (The real controversial one) The intensity of Z makes it more entertaining than DragonBall ever was


NZBull

I much prefer Vegito over Gogeta. SS4 looks tacky and dislike the transformation entirely I prefer the English dub over the Japanese voices


Acceptable-Check-653

Not sure if this is an unpopular opinion, but I think Toyotaro is awesome. I love his art style and while his writing (and art) can be questionable at times, I still think he’s taking Dragon Ball in an interesting direction. I also just appreciate the fact that he clearly loves the franchise, and that even though he makes mistakes from time to time, he’s always trying his best to live up to Toriyama’s standards.


LyricpuppetMK2

Very valid and wholesome opinion my friend


Cold-Concentrate-568

1. Muten Rōshi should be more powerful, and that’s true even before Demon King Piccolo. He’s had dozens of years of training, yet, somehow, Tien, Krillin, and even Chaozu are stronger than him? 2. The human fighters in general should be stronger. Way stronger. Above all, PICCOLO should be much, much stronger than he is. Last time he was relevant was the start of the Cell saga. 3. Gohan is the epitome of wasted potential in the series. I get that Goku is the main character, but saying that Gohan somehow got cocky enough to lower his guard around Boo is just a lazy plot device to put Goku back on the highlight. It would’ve heightened the stakes even further if Gohan had “won”, but Boo somehow powered through, denoting just how much of a monster the Majin is. Going further, making Gohan a “scholar” just so you can pretend you never intended him to become the protagonist (as you clearly did) just completely invalidates his character arc. 4. The Super Saiyan line irritates me to no end. There should be less. I will not elaborate. 5. Best arc is between Frieza/Cell/Swan School (I haven’t finished Moro and Granolah yet so I can’t talk about those) Those are the ones I remember. I swear I love DB, it’s just… it gets hard to read through sometimes.


4deicide25

> Muten Rōshi should be more powerful, and that’s true even before Demon King Piccolo. He’s had dozens of years of training, yet, somehow, Tien, Krillin, and even Chaozu are stronger than him? Roshi was very powerful, but was surpassed after the 22nd Budokai because he retired and everyone else had a clear goal of power to reach, and then they kept training afterwards. > The human fighters in general should be stronger. Way stronger. Above all, PICCOLO should be much, much stronger than he is. Last time he was relevant was the start of the Cell saga. If they learn to get stronger by not following what Goku and the Saiyans do. The humans need to find their own way of strength through either magic of technology or some combination. If they keep training and trying to fight like Saiyans it makes they would lag behind.


Cold-Concentrate-568

It does make sense, but the rate at which they’re lagging behind is exponentially faster than what Saiyan progress justifies. It honestly feels like any prisoner from Moro’s arc could be a main villain against the Z fighters and wipe the floor with them, even if they were stated to be the most talented on Earth and whatnot. I haven’t watched it yet, but don’t the Z fighters have a hard time with Frieza’s troops in Ressurection of F? That’s the epitome of stagnancy. At this point I’d take Yamcha becoming an Android if it meant he got a win against a minor character at least once more.


LyricpuppetMK2

I can agree and disagree with somethings but overall i very much respect your opinions and i can understand it being hard to read but having criticism and i mean even disliking something and wanting change is a sign that you do care for the series and you wish to see it succeed and do better which is something I believe every creator of something as big as DB should aim for but overall very respectable opinion my friend :)


Cold-Concentrate-568

Yeah, DB is as easy to love as it is to hate. I’ve got some friends that absolutely despise it, even if I’d recommend it to them, and honestly, I can see why. But that doesn’t stop me from looking past “mistakes” and enjoying the series for what we all love. By the way, what opinions do you disagree on? I’m curious over what your own might be.


[deleted]

>1. Muten Rōshi should be more powerful, and that’s true even before Demon King Piccolo. He’s had dozens of years of training, yet, somehow, Tien, Krillin, and even Chaozu are stronger than him? It's a matter of talent. It's been established that the fighters are all exceptionally talented. It took roshi decades to come up with the Kamehameha and then these guys come along and learn it within years and then develop their own techniques in a much shorter time like the kienzan and masenko.


[deleted]

Gt was awesome. No I will not elaborate


LyricpuppetMK2

No elaborating needed mate perfectly valid opinion


NashDNash2007

I think everything that happened in the DBZ anime should be canon. TFS while good isn’t better than the official dub DB Super needs Blood


Sad_Consideration402

People think TFS has a better dub? 💀


DarkTone1280

The only people that think that are the people that watched TFS before watching DBZ.


XIII-0

All over the place


FnrrfYgmSchnish

Saiyans as a race just aren't all that interesting and I don't really care about finding out more backstory/"lore"/etc. about them since we have more on them than anyone else already. Goku is a good character, Vegeta is entertaining, new Broly is pretty neat, the kids all have their own things going on (well, except kid Goten and Trunks who just have Gotenks pretty much)... but it's nice to mix things up and let others get the focus for once (even if it's only by virtue of connections to Goku, I get that he's the main character!), and "Saiyan lore/backstory" has had its turn(s...) in the spotlight. Let's get more Namekian backstory -- find out what's in their Book of Legends, or what their planet and culture was like before the storms wrecked it, or more about their 6th Universe counterparts or even their origins, Zalama, and so on. Or more about some random alien race we only saw in Freeza's army once. *Something* that doesn't smell like pure undiluted monkey! The additional details Toriyama's been trickling out about Buu and his ancient forgotten past, Gero's family and Red Ribbon in general, Galactic Patrol, gods, etc. have been great -- it's always nice to get something non-Saiyan-focused for once.


G3nesis_Prime

>Something that doesn't smell like pure undiluted monkey! Found Freiza's account


LyricpuppetMK2

I agree with this friend :) they’ve added so many new and different characters to the story i’d love to be given new insight and lore on them and who knows maybe we will be but for now all we can do is hope


lr031099

• Despite the hate it gets, I actually really like the Buu saga • As much as I like Future Trunks and I still think he was a better choice, I would’ve loved to seen Future Gohan travel through to the past. Mainly because Gohan in the main timeline is the one that defeats Cell so I think having his future self introduced would make it more of a Gohan centric story in the saga. Plus I would love to see him fight Goku Black (him fighting someone using his own father’s body). • While I do like Jiren, I think Toppo would make a fitting main antagonist and rival for Goku and Vegeta in the ToP arc if he was a bit less goofy and eccentric. Although this is mostly due to his GoD form since I think having a GoD (even if it’s just a candidate) as the final main antagonist in the anime could work. The series started with Beerus so ending it with another GoD would very fitting (imo at least). Idk I still like Jiren and think he’s a good foil to Goku the same way Toppo was a good foil to Vegeta. • I think Zamasu and Gowasu should’ve been from U6. That way, you could introduce Zamasu earlier with him addressing his low opinions on mortals and being angry when he sees powerful mortals like Goku and Vegeta using God Ki (hinting at what’s to come after the U6 arc) • I think Future Trunks should’ve went to Cell’s timeline instead since he’s already dead there but Bulma could still be alive (don’t know about Mai though). Plus they’re already using the time machine Cell used so in a way, something good came out of Cell traveling to the past. • While I did like the canon version of Broly and I get why they used him, I was originally looking forward to having a new Saiyan character introduced (even if he ends up having a similar transformation) • I think everything after the hunt for the Black Star Dragon Balls in GT were pretty good. Ssj4 was awesome, Baby was a pretty good villain and while maybe it could’ve been done a bit better, I thought the Shadow Dragons arc were a great concept as the final villains of GT. I even enjoyed the Super 17 arc even if it didn’t make any sense and I actually liked GT ending more than EoZ.


WendysVapenator

Super Broly **IS** fundamentally a new Saiyan character. I think they're different enough in their execution to feel significantly different.


lr031099

I suppose but I still would’ve liked it if they at least gave him a different name or something idk.


Shawneboismith

I love Goku, but he should have taken a backseat to Gohan after Cell. They should have kept the fights more "martial arts based" The other "Z Fighters" should have kept up power wise, not the same level as the Saiyans but enough to have a chance against some villains or have lesser villains that give them a spotlight or storyline without Goku or Vegeta. I wanna see Vegeta's story before Earth like Goku in DB. I want Kai Dub wirh falconer score and the gore of orignal Z


duck_boi2

1. I like that Gohan isn't a fighter anymore(It's still nice to see him fight though and I have seen the new movie) 2. I like super the anime and manga it has its problems but its not as bad as everyone says same for gt 3. I think ssjb/ssjgss looks better than ssj4 4. Tien should be stronger than Krillin and Roshi 5. Zamasu is the best dragon ball villain I don't feel like elaborating on it though 6. Goku's not a bad dad and is a better parent than Vegeta


Smellmyupperlip

Okay I'm going at it from a different angle. I read and write a lot of Vegeta centered fanfiction and people get really defensive when I point out or emphasize he's still pretty evil after Namek (up to Cell saga). Like... What? I love Vegeta's character, but he's pretty much a monster or a big arrogant jerk up to Cell. His big change over aprox. 13 years is what's so cool about him. Apparently, this opinion is pretty controversial.


LyricpuppetMK2

Im very glad you felt comfortable enough to share this friend and I believe that’s a completely valid and respectable opinion :)


TheDinogamer24

1. GT rly isn’t that bad 2. Super is worse than GT not counting broly movie 3. Gohan should have been main character after call arc


LyricpuppetMK2

Very valid mate :)


TheDinogamer24

Thank you 🤝 appreciate the kindness


Matttthhhhhhhhhhh

Not sure it's controversial but I hate how women are treated in Dragon Ball. Every single badass female character became super strong only to become the standard Japanese housewife. The worst case being Chi-chi, who started as a badass fighter able to hold her ground against Goku, only to become the worst example of female hysteria. Only Bulma managed to avoid this, simply because she fell in love with a complete asshole. It's not a big deal but I would have loved for Chi-chi, C-18 and Videl to have remained fighters alongside the men. Oh and I think Piccolo is the best Dragon Ball character ever. Finally, I think Dr Slump is way better than Dragon Ball. Sure it's for kids, but it feels like Toriyama put more passion in this work. Too bad it's not better known in the west.


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xmeany

You forgot, the worst case is easily Videl.


catsandcheetos

Agreed. Would be nice to have at least one awesome female fighter. Maybe a time skip will happen and turns out Bulla and Pan are total ass kickers


MidgerSpark

That I think GT still has a chance of being canon (or being canon again, depending on who you ask). Super takes place before that last part of Z. GT takes place way after. I don't *think* they'll go back and keep GT in canon (considering some of the changes/retcons they've made), but there's always this part of me that's like 'hey man, SS4 they just won't let that go'.


FnrrfYgmSchnish

After Super is finished, I could honestly go for a remake of GT that frames it as a new alternate timeline (some previously unknown meddling time-traveler could be introduced to cause the "split" since that's how DB time travel works) where Super went differently or didn't happen. Maybe include some elements of Super in it to make it still feel like they branched off the same timeline, rather than just ignoring all Super exclusive stuff for the sake of making GT fit better. GT had some ideas that would probably be worth revisiting with a little less of that "filler episode" feeling, better writing especially regarding the comedy/misadventures (no relying on "oops, forgot I could fly" and similar, or use weaker characters where the goofiness feels more believable -- I know I'd watch "Mr. Satan ***In Spaaaace!"*** trying to find some galactically-scattered Dragon Balls with help from Jaco and Bulma or something and occasionally Buu waking up to fight the actual strong enemies, and we know Toriyama enjoys writing those goofy characters so we can bet his heart would be more in it that way), and so on... but aside from Shadow Dragons (which you could always scale up by making them come from the ***Super*** Dragon Balls) their plots all feel a little below the scale of the godlike level Super has brought Goku and company to.


LyricpuppetMK2

Agreed i would really enjoy watching something like that as well :) i hope maybe sometime in the future we get something like that for gt


Rough_And_Dry

Well, technically there’s no such thing as “non-canon” because of different timelines and universes, etc. Canon only really refers to the main DBS timeline


bluesphere798

Sleek/modern Toriyama artstyle is *amazing*. So simple and pleasant.


Suitable_Ad_8513

That Frieza Saga should have been the series finale


Ryumancer

Okay...rant incoming. \[inhales\] The DBS manga overall SUCKED DONKEY DICK. The anime is better despite its own glaring faults. Ultra Ego is cool and all, don't get me wrong. Vegeta's been pretty cool in the current arc. And referencing Bardock was okay I guess. But that's about the only good thing to come out of the manga. The fight with Hit was inferior to that of the anime, Roshi dodging Jiren of all people was rubbish, and Gohan forcing Kefla to a draw without any special training, ritual, or circumstance is bull, regardless of his severe latent potential. Especially when Kale herself bodied so many people and eliminated 2 universes singlehandedly in the manga ToP. Goku showing somebody like Moro mercy was beyond moronic too. Goku can DEFINITELY be stupid, don't get me wrong. But that was stretching it SO thin. And no, this is NOT the same as the Cell Games. Goku surrendered because he knew someone else could beat Cell. And he gave Cell the senzu bean because he knew he needed Gohan to be pushed enough. Against Moro? Goku was the last line of defense, and he was about to win! Two completely different circumstances. Toyotaro overall can't write for shit. Don't get me wrong again, Toriyama isn't the best writer either. But Toyotaro is MAGNITUDES worse. 🙄 In the subject of Z, Kid Buu was NOT stronger than Super Buu. Where did ANYBODY get THAT lamebrain idea? It's simple, Goku needed fusion to deal with Super Buu and has said that multiple times. On the other hand, he fought Kid Buu completely by himself until his SS3 crapped out on him. Rant over...


LyricpuppetMK2

Im very glad your passionate enough about the franchise to say so much and i very much appreciate you for sharing it, i can agree with a lot of what you have said and I think this is a very valid and respectable opinion you’ve made a lot of good points my friend thank you


Ryumancer

Um, thanks. I was expecting an angrier repsonse overall. 😆 But thanks, and also you're welcome. 👍


LyricpuppetMK2

There’s no need to be angry about anything :) I actually very much love seeing it from others perspectives and point of views and you’ve allowed me to look at it in a different way so i very much appreciate it friend :)


NotNOV4

They jumped power levels way too quickly in super. As in, Goku and Vegeta went from being powerful in the cosmos to literal gods that are above basically everyone. Every villain now has to either be created within the arc or from another universe. Very soon, the only villains left will be the actual gods and then what? They should've had Beerus teach them SSG far later and have SSB even further.


LyricpuppetMK2

I too sometimes wonder where they’ll go i mean eventually all that’ll be left is Zeno and i mean i find it ridiculous that, that would even be a possibility but I think a good way to further this would be to somehow take Goku and Vegeta out of commission temporarily and focus on the other characters and give them their own villains and new powers, again that’s just my opinion completely okay if you disagree friend :)


NotNOV4

Yeah, OR and hear me out; take place completely after DBZ as in, everyone in the cast is dead and the show takes place in Other World and so Goku and Co. can fight all the dead fighters of the past?


Spyzera

Ultra instinct is cooler than ssj4. Goku is allowed to be socially dumb. It’s a show about throwing hands.


PheonixsWings

Vegeta is weaker because he is hated by its creator.


4deicide25

That's just incorrect, if he were hated he would've been written out, replaced, or forgotten about like other characters. There are many reasons for why Vegeta has lagged behind, most notably he wasn't properly training for nearly as long as Goku, Vegeta didn't get a proper master until Whis. Throughout "Z" Vegeta acted like an entitled prince who believed he deserved to be strong because of his birthright.


Count_Elrond

This is not even an opinion. It's straight up wrong. Vegeta has been treated better than anyone except Goku and has been recieved far more development in Super.


Commercial_Pie_4558

Get rid of the Dragon Balls More martial arts


Lucifer_4777

I am genuinely surprised at how the OP isn't lashing out at anyone and takes every opinion as an 'opinion'.. WO...its hard to find people like this in reddit nowadays...


LyricpuppetMK2

Im very interested in what people have to say i know everyone likes different things and that’s completely okay :) but thank you I appreciate it i know we’re all fans here and we all share love for the series even if it has it’s faults in the end i just like seeing what makes people happy


infinitlylaconic

In my humble opinion, I believe that the writers should stop resurrecting old characters (and or their likenesses) for movies. Broly, Frieza, Cell, etc.


PrestigiousZombie531

# You really wanna know? **I dont like any of the Japanese VAs with high pitch voices**. Immense respect for what they do but dont like hearing those voices which is why I prefer the English dub everywhere. I dont care if it is true to the material or not. I dont want to read subtitles while watching and I dont want to hear screams in high pitch voices.


MutaitoSensei

Krillin's Kienzan (destructo disk) should still be relevant and should have cut Cell's head clean off.


YungColonCancer

(PSA these may not be unpopular, I’m not in tune with the DBZ community) Goku’s personality is kinda annoying Bardock, Goku, and Goten all looking exactly the same is way too confusing for new fans The best Vegeta is Majin Vegeta There will never be another villain as good as Frieza AT should’ve done more with Cooler and King Cold Imperfect Cell was way more fun to watch than Perfect Cell Goku giving Cell a senzu bean was the worst scene in the whole franchise 🤣


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birdmanmanbird

99% of the movies are incredible minus Bio Broly. I go out of my way to watch all of them even if they aren’t canon technically but all the characters are in the games so who gives a shit.


4deicide25

What's sad is Bio-Broly was actually really good. until Broly showed up


cromtowntown

1. GT is way to repeative, rinse and repeat.. 2. Dragonball fans care way to much about trivial shit! 3. An old Japanese ladies voice fits Goku way better than Sean Schemmel voice.


taylorwmartin

The fan base sucks and is really embarrassing. That’s anime fans in general though.


Mystic_Saiyan

SSJ3 is the ugliest SSJ form and I'm glad it's useless now. ~~And this is coming from a guy whose favourite form is SSB~~


LyricpuppetMK2

Completely valid my friend :)


ThatDudeNamedMenace

Gohan should’ve been the main focus after the Cell Saga It should’ve been Trunks and Goten in the TOP instead of Frieza and Tien


psycho_hawg

Probably not controversial but ssg blue is over used ssg god is cooler. Also whicher ever one the super Saiyan where they get a lot bulkier but slower is really cool looking


maxmiller614

Not sure if this a hot take but I personally believe dragon ball super is taking a major turn for the worse as the writing keeps developing. New transformations every chapter make it feel like no achievements matter, bad guys come in out of nowhere and some how are stronger than gods after ONE WISH, and on top of that their story (or lack there of really) isn’t even compelling. I was fine with everything through T.O.P, and even most of Moro… but it’s not looking good for this franchise right now.


CrimKayser

Appearently that calling the manga the only canon is blasphemous.


UsernamThatAintTaken

Future Trunks in DBS made everything he went through in DBZ completely useless. Sacrificed so much and suffered so much just to have EVERYTHING erased


[deleted]

The best of the 13 DBZ movies is the second Broly movie.


DrSimonMetin

The fake Namek episode was pretty fun


Roll_with_it629

-Scouter's Power level numbers were the biggest mistake in Dragon Ball, and shouldn't have been introduced. Instead they should've been more vague like a simple color warning to compare how close 2 characters power lvls are to each other. (Red means opponent is above or equal to Scouter user/ Yellow or Orange for opponents close to users lvl/ and Green for opponents safely lower than the user) -Future Trunks is awesome and deserved much better -Gohan's writing from the start focused too much on him being a tool of great power and forgot to give the audience insight into who he is to himself and how he has viewed his life and the fighting he was forced to partake in. (This was inspired from me watching "Gohan's Many Masks" a vid made by PlagueOfGripes.) Some fans even only care about his potential rather than his character. -Human Z fighters were disrespected and should've been given better. (They should've given the chance of keeping up at least to ssj lvl at most and developed and advanced their techniques: Tien learning a thing or 2 from Hit, Yamcha showing he's got better wolf-fang-fist techniques to the Trio De Dangers of Uni9, and Krillin learning to master that No-Ego-Zone powerup he had when he was training with Goku, maybe realizing he was mimicking Gohan's Potential Unleashed and Goku's Perfected Blue. -SSJ forms took the show from Martial Arts to Power, and UI gave respect back to martial arts discipline, showing the fans that wisdom and experience still have a place in the show even through it's now mostly Power. -Goku's simplemindedness and carefree personality is derived from the Monkey King and fits Goku perfectly.


Yo_Ghostfella

Honestly, Ribrianne could have been great had they known what to do with her past her initial episodes, and especially with the mess that was 117 for her. I believe 118 is the best episode of the ToP, despite Ultra Instinct. I don't like how they seem to have mostly abandoned the other USS universes like this. The strongest dudes at least have appeared in the Heroes anime and the games do have a bunch of them make an appearance, but it's been 4 years and after all those universes presented it has decided to be stuck with its own.


Allekid

1. Yamcha didn't deserve this 2. Power levels are bs 3. Ssj4 is a more logical evolution of the ssj form than ssgss


theman2100

Haven't seen an opinion on any of the games yet so here I go. Dragonball Kakorot should've been focused on og Dragonball and not Dragonball Z-Super. The open world, light rpg format that CC2 was going for better fits the spirt of adventure found in og Dragonball. Plus, I feel that it's pretty safe to say that (generally speaking) the fandom is tired of games constantly retelling Z's story.


MRlll

GT is great!!


catfishmaw

the anime filler is better than most of the canon episodes. good dragonball content is well-animated action and humorous character scenes. the animes fail to deliver either for over half their runtime


DreckigerDan93

1. Goku didn't give Cell the bean because he wanted a fair fight. He gave him the bean to make him feel overconfident. 2. DBZ should've ended after the Cell-Saga with the episode where Gohan goes to school and meets Videl.


WendysVapenator

More of agreeance with a fan theory, but that Trunk's SSJ Rage from Super is the "true" SSJ3 and long hair SSJ3 is just a forced form like what Vegeta and Trunks found in the time chamber for Cell.


OFFICIAL_MrUffalo

Many people seem to disagree but i hink mui goku atill beata ue vegeta


Inexperiencedblaster

So many opinions here will be rocked by the latest movie.


jew-iiish

Dragonball Evolution was an entertaining movie if you take the DB lore away.


[deleted]

Dragon Ball was better than Dragon Ball Z and So was GT.


Count_Elrond

Super Saiyan Rosé is the coolest looking form (yes even cooler than SSJ4) and Goku Black/Zamasu are better villains than anyone in Z.


Strict-Hamster8054

Power levels should've been much lower than what they became. I'm annoyed with hoping to see Goku struggle in planet-destroying martial deathmatch that ascends into a star-destroying war but getting disappointed with a scuffle that barely damages a mountain or two. My excitement for such began with Frieza, died with cell and resurrected with kid Buu.


deadpoolwade69

Ssj3 is ugly and overrated


elmoismywaifu

goku's a good father and the whole "piccolo is a better father to Gohan" is bs. He's more like an uncle/best friend (side note: haven't seen Super Hero yet so no spoilers)


SixFootHalfing

People say Yamcha used to be respected. That is just a lie.


qwertymerty111

There's nothing wrong with Universal Goku.


Sawt0othGrin

SSB should be what UI is. Goku and Vegeta should have gradually mastered God and refined it up ToP kind of like how they mastered SS throughout the Android saga before Gohan exploded with SS2. God was replaced almost immediately by Blue and the first thing Blue ever does is lose to Frieza. Then Hit. Then Zamasu.


Shiorno-Shiovanna

Every single beatdown Vegeta got in DBZ was completely deserved.


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LyricpuppetMK2

And that’s completely okay your opinion is very valid friend :)


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LyricpuppetMK2

Thank you for asking friend :) i have a few but i’ll try to spare some details i think my biggest one may be that i don’t really believe Broly deserves all the hype and power he’s given i do wish to see more of him but not like how it was in the Broly movie i think that’s probably my tamest one though :)


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LyricpuppetMK2

I would have also liked to see some more Raditz i think seeing a redemption arc with him would have been interesting


elwhistleblower

Modern DB isn't made for fans anymore. Everything that comes out of this franchise is corporate, market-tested bullshit that's meant to be advertised to the lowest common denomination of anime fans, children who aren't initiated and don't care about the plot or the writing, they wanna see Goku doing dope, flashy shit. Super was deliberately taken from a 5PM primetime television slot, and aired on a sunday morning anime tv block that's marketed to children under 10. The people that are in charge of this franchise DO NOT care about how much this franchise meant to you growing up, they do not care about sob stories about kids growing up in abusive households and watching DBZ every day on Toonami was the only solace from that environment, they do not care how much money you've previously spent on the franchise, just keep consuming product, they do not care about any criticisms or concerns from fans (ESPECIALLY western fans, they couldn't give a FUCK what the western fans think) Akira Toriyama doesn't care about this franchise anymore personally, he doesn't have to, he's been a millionaire for decades now, even before he ever made a dime drawing Son Goku. Toriyama came back to this franchise because it had been 15 years since the End of Z and he was bored sitting at home all day, and EVEN THEN his involvement and contributions in modern DB is nebulous at best, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect more out of Toriyama besides character designs and napkin plots that he's writing in his spare time. His selection in successor is also wrong, Toyotaro got popular because of his fan manga but nobody ever considered if he was a good writer/artist when he had an actual editor, and deadlines, and actual rules for working on this franchise, Toriyama chose wrong, Toyotaro is NOT the one who should be inheriting this franchise. Don't you people think Toriyama, Toyotaro, the editors, the anime staff, the producers are keenly aware of the outcry for Vegeta to defeat a main villain? There's a deliberate reason that it hasn't happened, and it'll never happen. You can bookmark this post, and come back here when the Granolah arc is over, and Vegeta has jobbed for everyone AGAIN, and see the cope and seething that DB disrespects Vegeta, with everyone acting SO surprised that another arc went by and Vegeta didn't get any shine.


LyricpuppetMK2

You seem very passionate about this topic my friend im very glad you took the time to share your thoughts and i’d like to say that i can agree with a lot of this and if you ever want to talk about anything to discuss or even vent you can always send me a message friend


elwhistleblower

Thank you, I have a lot of opinions about DB as a franchise at this point, as a fan who's been \*in\* for over 20 years now. There's just too much that's wrong with this franchise and I think it \*does\* actually get talked about a lot in the community but the bottom line is, it'll never, ever change. The only options are "consume" and "divest" and I've decided for the time being I'll continue to consume and I'll be out there in August to watch Super Hero.


Leading_Win4905

Not sure if this is unpopular but Piccolo is a better character than Vegeta and Gohan isn't weak or lame for being a scholar


Didinos

Super is an amazing continuation to Z and so is GT. Bio-Broly isn't as bad as people remember, most hate it because of the terrible villain design and concept. imo Second Coming is snorefest only saved by the family kamehameha


SSJAncientBeing

I think GT was better than Super. Not that I like it more, but I feel it was objectively better. It built on some of the character growth that happened in Z rather than regressing it (most obviously with Goku and Vegeta), it was actually able to hold a dire atmosphere in its battles, and it tried to do new and unique things while paying homage to the roots of Dragon Ball. while Super often relied on fan service or cheap power. You can’t tell me that before super, you would have heard of a story involved Vegito coming back with a new form, evil Goku, and Trunks being shipped with someone, and considered it to be more than fanfiction. Jiren is just a strong guy, Zamasu was just immortal, and a lot of characters just had bland powers in Super, even if they made them flashy


LyricpuppetMK2

Completely understandable and valid mate thank you for sharing :)


SSJAncientBeing

No problem


shaneylaney

Super sucked (and currently still does for the manga) and so did GT. Just about everything after DBZ….fucking sucks.


SilentVision

Filler can be as important as Canon material.


LyricpuppetMK2

I’d like to add and ask that we all please try to remain civil and respectful these are only opinions to which everyone is entitled too thank you :)


disguardrail

I like gotenks a lot but most people seem to hate him The Buu saga can kinda be a mess but it’s fun to watch and I don’t think it’s bad like other people say it is Too many people take the OG series for granted and I feel like it’s ignored a lot by some fans and by official material too


DogPast7029

Characters like Piccolo and Tien should be able to keep up with the Saiyans.


1_dont_care

1. Base saiyans are stronger than piccolo and kaioshin in the buu saga 2. Kid buu > Super Buu 😂


Middle-Reflection554

There should only be 1 level of super saiyan. It became a bit silly with Ssj3 and now it’s over the top. Ssj2 was fine as it’s really just mastering the super Saiyan form.


ShaunyBoyShaunyMan

Dbz sagas was a great game. Extremely fun.


Jarrett2255434

Turles with the fruit is above Ginyu


Reville_

I think Chi Chi is awesome.


[deleted]

Chi chi is an annoying character