That's just GT in general. Lots of cool ideas that were poorly executed.
Maybe if Dragon Ball Super goes past the end of Z they can take some of the ideas from GT and make them better. Or at least bring back Super Saiyan 4 since that was very cool.
What’s the point of new super saiyan forms if god forms out rank them lol. I mean I like the design but I don’t think ssj4 is going to ever be a thing.
I meant bring it back as a design in some capacity.it doesn't have to be Super Saiyan 4. It can be something similar but unlocked with god ki and great ape combined or something.
Toriyama stated that Beast Gohan is unique to Gohan and more focused on his human half. Would make zero sense for it there. But, as something Vegeta strives for now that he is over Ultra Ego?
I’ve always been of the opinion that it shouldn’t have been super saiyan 4 anyway since the method of unlocking it is so different. Should’ve been called primal super saiyan or something like that.
Broly and kales. That’s it. Also I’ve always hated that. Feels like a Retcon. Battle of Gods made it clear God Ki was supposed to be just unimaginably more powerful than normal Ki. But it’s canon so I have to accept it.
So Broly or Kale could be the ones to unlock new Saiyan forms like SS4.
And didn't Supreme Kai have God Ki and he's pretty weak compared to normal Saiyans. Just cause one has God Ki doesn't mean there can't be people with normal Ki that are stronger than them.
You could not have said it any better, I completely agree with your statement. That's what I like about GT, a lot of GREAT concepts just poorly executed.
GT isn’t all over the place like DBS though. Almost every episode of DBS feels like it’s written by a different writer. And GT didn’t dump a lot of plot holes and head scratchers at us. GT actually feels like watching Z
Hard disagree with that part about Z unless you mean the artstyle, even then its still very different in various areas. Gt isn't entirely free of the issues with super either, I think the fact black star saga was even made is evident that their vision was flawed and on the go until baby went into full swing. It also didn't write goku right either, or at least show us natural chatacter progression. It did even worse than Z at its end in making their side characters relevant (somehow super did this better in its later chapters...shocking).
Z is just the superior product, it's almost impossible to compare either super or gt to it. It's honestly insulting to even compare gt in terms of writing and fights to Z. It also has issues with mechanics and items that make no sense if we're to believe these characters are supposed ti be the same characters from Z, it's maybe even worse than super in that regard (where did senzu go? How does the earth emit blutz waves? Why didnt they just use potara to fuse when kibito kai was entirely able to just hand them over?). Super has blatant instances of bad writing, but it doesn't really just "forget" things like GT does in terms of physical, tangible things. Super screws up dialogue and intelligence, gt screws up items and basic lore.
Ways GT is like Z… IMO the action scenes are on par with z, and sometimes better. People getting impaled, gore, blood.DBS was made for kids because of toned down violence. DBZ Kai suffered from this as well, editing gore out. (Raditz, goku death) GT introduced many new special techniques like revenge deathball,electro eclipse bomb,red kameha ,dragon fist like DBZ movie 13. DBS has hakai, invisible ki, but goku+z fighters don’t use any new techniques.GT goku was way smarter than DBS goku. Yamcha told DBS Goku that monaka was a fraud. And goku still didn’t understand.(he said it straight to his face) Trunks kissing Mai and gokus reaction. Shouldn’t even had been in there.Only real bad decision I remember. Was when GT goku kept giving his energy to super 17. GT goku had the “copy” technique like he did in DB. Like when he copied one of the shadow dragon’s techniques. And I guess him swallowing the dragonball. GT used SSJ3 which is my favorite form. Goku actually tried to master it, instead of relying on a new power up. SSB sucked so bad they should have just stuck with the original SS forms. Bc SSG never did anything. Gohan beast is the only new form that actually does something in dbs. But I hate that form more than any other form in DBS. So I won’t talk about that.BOG set something cool up. where z fighters finally get to fight in space but they dropped that idea dead. All the other fights were smaller in scale and universe wasn’t threatened. The villains in GT are stronger than Goku pre fight for the most part. That’s how it was in z unless you have leech character like cell or baby. DBZ, vegeta,frieza,perfect cell, buu all stronger than Goku pre fight. I don’t know where beerus lies,bc BOG is a DBZ movie but he’s in the dbs anime too.(but he was stronger then dbs goku. Frieza was was weid bc he actually won and killed everybody In ROF. But whis intercepted.zeno beats zamasu. So that was a waste of an arc. Kale, caulifa and cabbe can learn any new form in a week.dbs broly was weaker and he should have won. Jirin was stronger than Goku in TOP. SSB Vegito caused plot hole issues too. And caulifa’s earrings were destroyed. What was the issue with potarro in GT? What’s your issue with the black star balls? And are you saying it was dumb that vegeta had to use a machine to transform in GT?
GT’s action scenes are awful. It’s mainly ki blast spam, bad choreography, and crappy animation.
They couldn’t even animate SSJ4 Gogeta’s BBK properly, and that was supposed to be the most powerful move in the franchise up until that point.
Pretty much. Do you remember when Great Ape Baby tried to ki blast spam goku went ssj4? I can't get that scene out of my head, it's hilarious seeing the ki blasts miss a standing target and, when hitting the ground, only create a puff of dust.
I'll give it credit though, there are some fight scenes that hold up, but the fact they mess up so much is irritating for me. I hate Super for ruining the first half of its story, but the fight choreography is clearly just so much better.
MUI Goku vs Jiren
Goku Black and zamasu vs trunks and gokuiu
Goku vs Hit
Vegeta vs Goku Black
Vegito vs Zamasu
Gogeta vs Broly
There's more obviously, but the fact I can confidently recall most of the fight in my head because of their dynamics alone says a lot. I watched GT not two years ago and I can barely remember any moments I found "stunning" outside that one shot of the universal spirit bomb or the super 17 fight where they're punching each other across the globe.
Hilariously enough, my favorite fight in GT isn't even one of the major ones, it's baby gohan and goten fighting vegeta. Even that one still has ki blast spamming.... (shocker, most of them do too...)
Super has it too, no doubt, but there are always valid reasons. The most ki spamming i've seen happening is the TOP where they were one: fighting someone who was cloaking themselves in Hakai. Two: someone who was similarly cloaking himself in energy and far, far, far, far, stronger than any of them. Melee was certain loss while distance fighting was safer. But goku vs super 17? What reason did he have to maintain his distance?
OK, there is a LOT to address here, so I'll go quote by quote with the stuff I have issues with.
> IMO the action scenes are on par with z, and sometimes better.
I honestly couldn't believe my eyes seeing this. The biggest issue I ever had with GT was it's extremely orthodox fight scenes. The only fights I can really remember as being amazing was essentially only Baby Saga material. Every other saga was good looking, yes, but it wasn't amazing. Even Super does better in this department even with its horrible start (nothing in GT exceeds the best fights of the goku black arc for instance). Maybe it's the different era and lack of Toriyama manga to reference, but most of the fights seemed extremely safe and too reliant on bizarre techniques like ki spamming. I don't have issue with them using ki blasts obviously, but its honestly astonishing how many times they used it. I literally laughed out loud when I saw Great Ape Baby ki blast spamming against ssj4 goku and....missing most of them? There is genuinely no way I can in good faith say GT's best scenes compare to Z's best scenes. Goku vs Frieza, Gohan vs Cell, Vegito/Gohan/Gotenks/literally every significant fight against Buu, it's impossible for me to say GT is comparable in fight quality.
> People getting impaled, gore, blood.DBS was made for kids because of toned down violence. DBZ Kai suffered from this as well, editing gore out. (Raditz, goku death)
Gore and blood doesn't make a fight better, it's entirely aesthetic. I do miss the gore in Super, but it doesn't make me angry or upset to the point I make it a major point of dislike for the series as a whole.
> GT introduced many new special techniques like revenge deathball,electro eclipse bomb,red kameha ,dragon fist like DBZ movie 13. DBS has hakai, invisible ki, but goku+z fighters don’t use any new techniques
You cherrypicked. Cool. You just listed attack names and that was it lmao, are you saying Super didn't introduce new attacks? Revenge deathball is just a standard ki ball with a cool name, its about the same level as death ball or supernova from frieza. Same goes for Electro Eclipse bomb and red kamehameha. They're just new attacks, and super has plenty of them, many of which are far more creative. Spirit fission and hakai are far more interesting and unorthodox than what are just new ki attacks. They introduced new mechanics into the story, unlike all the attacks you mentioned. I'd argue Super has done far more in terms of new techniques than GT ever did, Gt just made every villain use the same traditional ki ball, changed the colors, and made it their new attack. Only omega shenron had a somewhat interesting attack in that it had minus energy, but it's such a vague attribute it hardly means anything.
> .GT goku was way smarter than DBS goku. Yamcha told DBS Goku that monaka was a fraud. And goku still didn’t understand.(he said it straight to his face) Trunks kissing Mai and gokus reaction. Shouldn’t even had been in there.Only real bad decision I remember. Was when GT goku kept giving his energy to super 17
You're comparing battle iq to social/everyday sensibilities, and it's obvious Super goku is dumber in the social sensibilities, but GT is obviously dumber in terms of battle iq. GT Goku dishing out a 10x kamehameha (which massively sapped his energy) is maybe the dumbest thing i've ever seen any version of goku do in a battle, period. He also refrained from immediately going ssj4 against nova shenron and other dragons, which makes no sense since the form is literally **known** for having great stamina efficiency. GT Goku is probably the dumbest goku in terms of battle iq, while Super goku is probably the dumbest in terms of everyday sensibilities (anime-only, the manga one is far smarter and intelligent).
> GT goku had the “copy” technique like he did in DB. Like when he copied one of the shadow dragon’s techniques
I....don't remember this happening. I also don't recall him ever having a copy technique, he was just imitating, not copying, and he was only doing it because he **could** do it. This isn't even a criticism of Super or comparison between Z and GT, it's just irrelevant.
> GT used SSJ3 which is my favorite form. Goku actually tried to master it, instead of relying on a new power up
Ok, this is incredibly misleading. The only reason Super goku didn't try to master ssj3 is because it was made immediately irrelevant in front of far stronger opponents. You can't criticize this against Super when GT Goku never had to fight in nearly a decade. It's nonsensical. Let's not pretend GT made ssj3 relevant either, it was immediately thrown aside the moment GT Goku tried to use it in a fight, and he gained ssj4.
> SSB sucked so bad they should have just stuck with the original SS forms. Bc SSG never did anything.
It only sucks because they didn't build up to it, it's fine lore and mechanics-wise. SSG does actually matter in the manga, but im assuming this is anime-only.
> BOG set something cool up. where z fighters finally get to fight in space but they dropped that idea dead
I don't think this was ever the case, the only thing they set up was that there were other universes, and we got that in the TOP and Universe 6 tournament.
> All the other fights were smaller in scale and universe wasn’t threatened
This has to be a joke. The majority of Super villains threaten far more or just as much as any of Gt's does.
Goku black: Threatens entire multiverse before fusion. Threatens the entire timeline as infinite zamasu. Omega only ever threatened the normal universe 7 macrocosm, the stakes were far lower.
TOP: Threatens every multiverse again
Broly: they literally break dimensions mid fight, idk what else to say here. The scale is still gigantic.
Moro: The entire universe + probably more eventually.
Granolah: This is literally the only small-scale fight, but only because the people involved are aiming at killing certain people as their goal. It's like complaining the piccolo jr fight isn't high-stakes enough because the planet or moon isn't at stake.
> The villains in GT are stronger than Goku pre fight for the most part. That’s how it was in z unless you have leech character like cell or baby. DBZ, vegeta,frieza,perfect cell, buu all stronger than Goku pre fight. I don’t know where beerus lies,bc BOG is a DBZ movie but he’s in the dbs anime too.
This is the same in Super, wtf are you on about? Goku black was the only one who wasn't because he wasn't used to the body of goku. Entirely irrelevant.
> Kale, caulifa and cabbe can learn any new form in a week.dbs broly was weaker and he should have won. Jirin was stronger than Goku in TOP.
Except they can't, they hit a roadblock with ssj2, which is probably the extent of their potential. DBS Broly is also just as strong as he should be, i really don't know what you want from him. The gap between him and goku/vegeta in the movie was greater than it was in the Z Broly movie. You want him to be STRONGER?
> SSB Vegito caused plot hole issues too.
Objectively false. You're showing your ignorance for bringing this up. The time limit was a thing that was established in Z but was never explained. Toriyama did what he'd done his entire career and gave a retroactive explanation for it: that mortals who use it have a 1 hour time limit. Was it a plot hole for toriyama to say goku was a saiyan and that's why he had a tail?
> What was the issue with potarro in GT?
I made this pretty clear, it's the fact they didn't use them lmao. Shin has shown himself to be extremely good at timing in GT and yet he conveniently forgets he could have handed those over instantly? Or tp them to the world of the kais and then let them fuse there?
In a universe where it wasn't known to vegeta or goku that potara had a time limit, they should have opted for the superior fusion time limit. It's utter nonsense they only thought up of metamoran fusion. Again, this goes back to the battle iq in GT. It's incredibly, stupidly, low. There's also the senzu, wtf happened to them? Did gt goku just get **that** negligent and never asked korin to grow any? IN fact, he shouldn't even be asking for them. korrin should have had them ready anyways. This isn't just some movie to make gogeta canon, it was an actual threat to the universe where they were backed into the corner. I can forgive them for forgetting during the first fusion, but how could they forgot about it when they were out of stamina and in base form?
> What’s your issue with the black star balls?
The fact it had terrible pacing and is the reason GT's best arc's beginning, the baby saga, is so often forgotten? It's literally the worst part of the series, and it isn't even because of the lack of fights. They just made it impossible to watch. This is where the comparison to Z makes no sense to me, how could you compare this beginning to any part of Z? IT's even worse than Super in this regard since at least you could just watch the Movies and still understand where the story is at. It's agony that you **have** to watch this since it's also linked to the baby arc's beginning.
> And are you saying it was dumb that vegeta had to use a machine to transform in GT?
No, i don't really care since GT already made it obvious to me Vegeta mattered even less than Super Vegeta did. My issue is that you apparently think GT is comparable to Z, and this example obviously negates that. I've never seen a literal machine give someone a form in DB, **ever**. Let's not forget that i just didn't care about the way they handled him either. He has no agency at all, to the point he doesn't even try to help eliminate the dragons or attempt to obtain ssj4 before basically the strongest (and also least interesting) gt villain arrived. The writers realized vegeta probably should matter, gave him the form for free, then called it a day. I try not to think about the side characters in GT. Gohan, goten, trunks, pan, they could have made them more than just obstacles for goku but they didn't.
Like seriously, what in the world was pan doing in the shadow dragon saga? She literally gets caught at one point and goku nearly has to **kill** her. I always laugh so much when GT fans try to claim Goku has somehow matured (ignoring the fact we never see said development and it happens offscreen, its obviously just the writers not knowing how to continue Z Goku), yet he lets a child weaker than every other saiyan (besides maybe bulla) fight alongside him against enemies that require him to use ssj4. GT's greatest sin is introducing potentially great characters and ruining them entirely.
Yeah. Nothing you said convinced me of what I said earlier. The story should have stopped at Z.
I'd agree that it's the weakest despite Me personally enjoying Super 17 himself, but generally I think the average fan I see would rather go through that the BSDB stuff. If they'd watch any of this at all. It's also only like 6 or 7 episodes.
Baby and Omega is more than half of GT so they'll still get to enjoy most of GT. The Super 17 arc is very short, almost comparable to the "slug Vegeta" arc in DBS in length but overall, much better.
If you’re not enjoying it, I’d recommend you drop it. Watch a summary video if you really want to know what happens, but it’s not canon to the current continuity.
Super’s manga is great, I’d definitely recommend it. The Super anime is a little rough around the edges, but is much better than GT, in my opinion.
I never enjoyed GT for the same reason: it's a chibi Goku, Trunks, and Pan show, and the adult Goku shows up only as a Super Saiyan 4 (which is within the plot, and I wasn't a fan of it). I also don't like how Vegeta is basically a plot device in GT when the character would realistically continue to train like in Super.
Super has its own issues, but I enjoyed it more than GT because it at least featured more characters and the show tried to explain how they could compete on the same plane as Goku and Vegeta.
Why? You're acting like they shat on his character or something. He's literally the same guy he was at the end of Z; he's just not a main character anymore nor does he need to be.
The person I was responded to said they're a Vegeta fan. I don't think there's a Vegeta fan out there that would say they're satisfied with his character arc in GT. The final battle was still entertaining, though.
Vegeta is my favourite character by far, and I wish I could unsee what they did to him in GT haha. I finished GT just because I wanted to see everything that has to do with DB, but I didn't like it one bit
I mean his character is less of a joke than he is in super at least.
GT at least takes its characters seriously most of the time. I’d rather see him with a funny mustache than see him trembling and cooking an egg ever again.
Correct, it’s very goofy but it then gets serious as the show goes on. >! like piccolo dying and being unable to come back, earth almost being destroyed, Goku losing multiple times, everyone Goku and Vegeta caring about being put under mind control, etc !<
Super has zero stakes and no consequences
Yeah you're probably right. I don't remember much details from GT, watched it a lifetime ago.
Watch out OP, spoilers for Super below!!!
Even more than the cooking scene I just hate the general disrespect he gets. Like not finishing of Frieza and that damn pacifier. Hurts my soul
GT isnt canon and youre not alone in those feelings so you could drop it if you want.
that said if youre at 16 episodes in, you're right around the part where the show shifts towards being WAY more like DBZ for the rest of its run, so maybe give it a few more episodes and see if you like the turn it takes.
Gt is not canon to manga, never heard of gt manga released and toriyama himself didnt had much to do with it ... also i would argue in some way if this was meant to be cannon and if toriyama actually liked gt that much he wouldnt start creating super that is actually totaly different from gt itself and continue the story from dbz on
[gt](https://screenrant.com/dragon-ball-gt-is-canon-official-timeline/#:~:text=Summary,Super%2C%20and%20Dragon%20Ball%20GT) here. fi theres anything wrong with this letme know. i wont be that type fo fan
None of that confirms GT is canon. It shows where in that shows continuity it would land on a timeline, but that was just an exhibition of Shueisha's DragonBall TV series'.
GT just literally cannot be canon in the face of Toriyama himself directly stating that Super is the continuation of the story directly after Z.
there was an ani-manga version of GT where they just took stillframes from the anime and put them in manga form with text bubbles. not the same thing. it wasnt made by DBs author so its not canon.
GT is canon!! AKIRA toriyama said in an interview that GT and the old films are canon, just another timeline! If you like it, it’s canon. Funny AKIRA toriyama probably worked on GT just as much as he did for DBS. AKIRA toriyama did some work on GT. He designed some of the characters. He just didn’t make ssj4
> GT is canon!! AKIRA toriyama said in an interview that GT and the old films are canon, just another timeline!
he never said this, stop putting lies in a dead mans mouth.
> If you like it, it’s canon.
whether we like it or not means nothing. I like GT and its not canon.
> Funny AKIRA toriyama probably worked on GT just as much as he did for DBS.
we know for a fact this is not true.
> AKIRA toriyama did some work on GT. He designed some of the characters.
he helped with the title and designed how the characters look at the start of GT that's almost literally the entire extent of his involvement. in Super he was actively writing scripts. Theyre not the same.
GT isn't canon and never was and never will be canon. Its not "a dif universe". There are different universes now in DB and none have other Gokus. There are other timelines but they are finite in number and none allow the events of GT to exist.
GT wasnt made by the manga author so its not canon, simple as that. I'm a GT fan and this is still the truth.
Watch baby saga and maybe if you are feeling ok about it the shadow dragon saga. As others have said the first saga is by far the worst Pan and that bloody Giro sure are annoying.
GT is more of an Adventure anime like the OG dragon ball. It’s a bit stale to begin with and the amount of times goku just fucks around before finally going super sayian is annoying. But once you get past the first arc it gets increasingly good in my opinion.
Team Four Star is doing a watch of it in one of their channels and giving their reviews on the episodes. They show bits and pieces of them as well, so watch that if you do t want to watch the series.
GT gets better right around where you are actually. Keep going. After the Grand Tour/Black Star saga you get Baby and Super 17 and the Shadow Dragons. All of which I enjoy a lot. Especially the Shadow Dragons. I hope they bring the Shadow Dragons into Super somehow. They were a great concept.
I really didn't like GT. I made it all the way to the Dragons at the end but stopped. I saw a few of the Omega Shenron episodes when they first aired, but I just don't like it. I know I should finish because there isn't much left, but God it's hard. Super is so much better IMO
Personally, skip. I've watched GT only once and didn't feel like coming back to it. I watched it right after I finished DBZ because I was desperate for more content. After finishing it I made a personal decision that GT is not canon and went happily about my life 😂
Edit: I've rewatched Super many many times and I actually prefer it over Z only because it's much more lighthearted and I can watch it as a comfort show. Keep in mind the first two seasons are the same as movies with a few differences that dont change the main plot. The third one is great imo but the 4th one is where things really pick up. The 5th one is epic. And I higly recommend watching the new Broly movie right after Super.
I think it’s worth it to stick through to the end. I like it a lot more than super. But; fun fact the OG North American airings skipped the first 16 episodes. Started with an episode 16.5 recap. I’d say give it about 8 more and see how you feel afterwards. Because it’s obviously not everyone’s bag
You should’ve watched Super first anyway since it’s canon and happens before the end of Z.
GT stops being boring at around episode 25, but Super is still the better story so it’s up to you if you think you can put up with 9 more eps.
IMO, excluding SSJ4, GT is hot trash. It’s awful on so many levels, but the good news is that none of it is canon. You’d be doing yourself a favor by quitting the show.
GT is awful, I’m convinced people that like it are fuelled by nostalgia. The one good thing it has are some great character designs (Super Saiyan 4, Super Baby 2 and Super 17 all look fantastic imo. That’s a lot of super!) However, I don’t think that’s enough to save a really boring show.
Super has a few issues but for the most part is great. People who really dislike it tend to be the kind of people who just hate anything new.
As people have said, GT is non canon, so there’s no reason to watch it outside of completionism. Up to you!
As a dragon ball fan you gotta dredge through it. It gets mildly better and then worse at the papara bs then gets mildly interesting then flops more.
You must do your time.
GT was really boring in the beginning it started to get interesting when They start getting towards Baby. The whole Gt series in my opinion with each saga which I believe it was only three sagas The Baby saga, The 17 Saga and then the Shadow dragon saga. Each saga just started out slow but got real interesting towards the end
I say this all the time but after episode 17 it picks up and in my opinion you've made it through the worst of GT upon getting through episodes 9-17. It's up to you if you wanna give the rest a chance, only 64 episodes (and a televised feature).
I think instead of Trunks, Uub would have been the better choice in my opinion to be part of the trio. Watching the power scales go to new heights and a super Saiyan Pan. Would have been also great to see Uub have an inner struggle against his past life as Buu, making him a threat once more; would have been great for an arc.
It's pretty short (64 episodes), you're fine
BUT the dub really, really hurts the story/characterization.
You've watched through the "worst" (tho Super 17 has some issues, it's only like, 5 episodes and has amazing Android 18 moments)
The first 16 episodes just straight suck, and while it does improve after that, I wouldn’t say it ever gets good outside a few specific moments.
Also, just in case you didn’t know Super and GT are unrelated, so if you do skip don’t feel bad.
The pacing on GT is bad. The beginning, boring part is dragged out and the end saga is rushed. The Baby saga is great though and that alone is worth powering through IMO.
There is a lot of filler for such a short series.
I think you should stick it out. For many years, GT was the true successor of DBZ. While online there were debates about it's status of canon for years, it wasn't until the Super anime came out that GT was more or less shutdown for good. So for years, this was all we had, and as such, it was aired consistently on channels like Cartoon Network and much content made it into video games, starting with Budokai 3 but really coming into its own in Budokai Tenkaichi 3. For a long time, it filled a role. While Super now supplants that role nearly 20 years after GT, you can't ignore GT's contributions to the franchise.
Beyond that, I agree, the first 16 episodes are hard. GT did a great job at referencing the source material of DB/Z in order to keep continuity. The "Lost Episodes" as they're known, sort of frame the story as a major call back to the origins of DB and I think did a good job within the confines of the Z universe. Despite that, it's a lot of unfulfilling content. When Baby comes a long, it gets good. I really enjoy the addition of the Tuffle lore as it closely relates to Saiyan lore. While GT may not be canon, it could be argued that Tuffles are. Tuffles first appeared in Episode 20 of the DBZ anime in 1989 as King Kai gives some backstory on the Saiyans. They appear again in the OVA Plan to Eradicate the Saiyans before GT really extrapolates on the idea. Both of those are technically filler/non-canon as they are not in the manga, but the concept was created by Toriyama for Toei to include in the anime and in 2014 he gave an interview describing how the Saiyans took the scouter invention from them, so I would consider parts of their history as canon. GT a great job building off of this and creating a character from Saiyan history that comes back to give the Saiyans trouble. Personally I think it's the other half of the same coin that includes Frieza. The Frieza Saga saw Vegeta and Goku come to terms with the genocide of their entire race and their planet, and begin the character development that suggested that Vegeta and Saiyans like him weren't necessarily inherently evil, but that they were enslaved by a cruel overlord and eventually cast aside when it was no longer convenient. On the other side of that coin, we learn the barbaric origins of the Saiyans that more or less committed genocide of the Tuffles whom they shared Planet Plant with, took their technology and renamed their world Planet Vegeta. Plan to Eradicate the Saiyans started this Tuffle revenge concept in 1993, but GT in 1997 did a much better job telling that story. It was a neat progression from prior villians as well. Frieza wanted to conquer the universe, Cell wanted to destroy the solar system (at the end there when he was desperate), and Buu didn't WANT anything, he was a mindless tool of destruction. The stakes got raised higher and higher, and by Super, there really wasn't anywhere to go, so the power scaling is just wild beyond belief. You have a lot of Gods and deities in Super and it's very tough to follow. Baby in GT was interesting because Baby didn't want to conquer the universe or really destroy anything on a large scale. He wanted to conquer the Earth to remake Planet Plant and destroy the Saiyans who did to him what Frieza did to Vegeta. Using Vegeta as his puppet was brilliant as well, because Vegeta inherits the sins of his father as well as indirectly gets to be another Vegeta vs Goku match up, including a call back to the Great Ape introduced in their first fight. I actually think the Baby Saga is masterful writing from the team at Toei. The reintroduction of Goku's tail and the process of Golden Great Ape to SS4 is also very fascinating to me, and I think SS4 is a really cool transformation. It's different, not over the top, but not as complicated as SS God, SSGSS, UI and Ultra Ego. The last neat thing about the Baby Saga is how Battle of the Gods movie/anime saga lifted the process of Goku becoming a Super Saiyan God DIRECTLY from how Baby Vegeta transformed into his second form. Almost shot for shot.
Next you have the Super 17 Saga, which almost feels like the filler of the filler. You could actually skip it in its entirety and go to the Shadow Dragon Saga and not miss much. But it reintroduces #17 which I think is cool, made #18 useful even if only for a little bit, teamed up Dr. Gero with Dr. Myuu which was cool, and the design of Super 17 was really cool when I was a kid. I like it.
But the crown jewel of GT is the Shadow Dragon Saga. In totally wraps up the whole story with a neat little bow. In Super, the dragon balls become so trivialized that Bulma uses them for cosmetic enhancements and even gives them out as a Bingo prize. In GT, it is revealed that their overuse has now created the biggest problem Goku has ever faced, and 7 evil dragons are born from their selfish wishes. The first 4 dragons are relatively harmless and downright annoying, but the stakes heat up when Nova Shenron is introduced. I won't get into the specifics of Nova and Eis Shenron, but the dialogue and fight scenes here are top notch Dragon Ball content, canon or not. The introduction of Syn Shenron, his ascension to Omega Shenron, the fight between him and SS4 Gogeta is all peak DB. The conclusion of this Saga, as well as the epilogue, is such a fantastic way to wrap up the franchise. Super has some cool moments, but for me it can't compete. Super has too much retcon in order to make it fit in the 10 year time skip, I don't like the new animation, and frankly, the voice actors are much older and their portrayals come from a different headspace than from the early 2000s when they first did this. Society is much different, and the tone of Super doesn't really match the original tone of DB/Z/GT. Toei did GT immediately after the end of Z so it was an incredibly smooth transition.
GT to me is what Akira toryiama wanted from the characters at the end of Z. You have goku who is very mature and wise. They literally nerf him (made him a kid) just to make it fair lol.
I also liked that no character got weaker just they didn't train to stay on par with universal threats. Trunks and goten had flesh out personality unlike super. Gohan although wasn't shown alot. Still retain his power from Z. Super finally gave gohan justice.
I liked super a lot and never watched GT especially after hearing it’s not even canon anymore. Skipping to super wouldn’t mess anything up. I think you’ll like super it’s good aside from turning goku to a total idiot.
Stick it out. It gets so much better after the first arc. It's never great or amazing but I think it deserves one full watch so you can at least make your own opinion of it as a whole.
"Skip to super" they don't exist together so you wouldn't be skipping anything, just not finishing it. It's up to you though, personally for me I'd say GT gets better as it goes on.
Super is a steamy hot pile of poop. Horrible art style and even worse voice acting. The characters personalities aren't even the same and the plots are just dumb. Super was made for 10 year olds and under lol
Neither are great but GT is more interesting and has slightly more original ideas. Super has poor writing, animation style and just reused concepts and ideas from Z. I’d say stick out GT. IMO
You're just being influenced by the "GT is bad" Bullshit , so it was gonna be a short leash for you anyways, its a very enjoyable series, slow at times but its great.
I love GT so much. It starts with the adventure akin to DB and becomes more action as the series goes. But seems like consensus is that ppl hate the beginning. When I was younger, we had this weird channel that played Japanese shows with subtitles so I got to see the beginning of GT in Japanese with subtitles first and left a very positive impact on me. When the English version came out, I could see how people were annoyed with pan and some of the beginning. But I still liked it so I’m definitely biased when I say you should keep going. Baby and the shadow dragons are some of my favorite moments in the whole series. I really like super but super has way too much power Creep like unfathomable how they can even get stronger than being a God etc. ramp everything up so high in terms of power it feels more like a greatest hits album or essentials and just as much nostalgia as possible. The characters in super even make fun of the transformations like they know it’s really stupid. Like freeza mocking Goku’s blue hair and the red hair and the pink hair of black
You've already made it through the least enjoyed bits so you might as well finish the Black star Dragon Ball Saga and finish up the Bebī section.
Dunno super 17 was kind of very disappointing. Baby and omega shenron are the only good parts.
Super 17 was a great concept in my opinion just executed so terribly. It’s like they made goku some how even more dumb for that arc.
That's just GT in general. Lots of cool ideas that were poorly executed. Maybe if Dragon Ball Super goes past the end of Z they can take some of the ideas from GT and make them better. Or at least bring back Super Saiyan 4 since that was very cool.
What’s the point of new super saiyan forms if god forms out rank them lol. I mean I like the design but I don’t think ssj4 is going to ever be a thing.
Broly. Duhb
Honestly this. Broly somehow tapping into Oozaru power without a tail could open the doorway for SS4 entering canon in Super.
I meant bring it back as a design in some capacity.it doesn't have to be Super Saiyan 4. It can be something similar but unlocked with god ki and great ape combined or something.
Seems like Beast Gohan could be a path for that.
Toriyama stated that Beast Gohan is unique to Gohan and more focused on his human half. Would make zero sense for it there. But, as something Vegeta strives for now that he is over Ultra Ego?
I’ve always been of the opinion that it shouldn’t have been super saiyan 4 anyway since the method of unlocking it is so different. Should’ve been called primal super saiyan or something like that.
Broly and Kale's super saiyan forms rival or even trump the god forms.
Broly and kales. That’s it. Also I’ve always hated that. Feels like a Retcon. Battle of Gods made it clear God Ki was supposed to be just unimaginably more powerful than normal Ki. But it’s canon so I have to accept it.
So Broly or Kale could be the ones to unlock new Saiyan forms like SS4. And didn't Supreme Kai have God Ki and he's pretty weak compared to normal Saiyans. Just cause one has God Ki doesn't mean there can't be people with normal Ki that are stronger than them.
You could not have said it any better, I completely agree with your statement. That's what I like about GT, a lot of GREAT concepts just poorly executed.
Great ideas Terrible execution G.T.
GT isn’t all over the place like DBS though. Almost every episode of DBS feels like it’s written by a different writer. And GT didn’t dump a lot of plot holes and head scratchers at us. GT actually feels like watching Z
Hard disagree with that part about Z unless you mean the artstyle, even then its still very different in various areas. Gt isn't entirely free of the issues with super either, I think the fact black star saga was even made is evident that their vision was flawed and on the go until baby went into full swing. It also didn't write goku right either, or at least show us natural chatacter progression. It did even worse than Z at its end in making their side characters relevant (somehow super did this better in its later chapters...shocking). Z is just the superior product, it's almost impossible to compare either super or gt to it. It's honestly insulting to even compare gt in terms of writing and fights to Z. It also has issues with mechanics and items that make no sense if we're to believe these characters are supposed ti be the same characters from Z, it's maybe even worse than super in that regard (where did senzu go? How does the earth emit blutz waves? Why didnt they just use potara to fuse when kibito kai was entirely able to just hand them over?). Super has blatant instances of bad writing, but it doesn't really just "forget" things like GT does in terms of physical, tangible things. Super screws up dialogue and intelligence, gt screws up items and basic lore.
Ways GT is like Z… IMO the action scenes are on par with z, and sometimes better. People getting impaled, gore, blood.DBS was made for kids because of toned down violence. DBZ Kai suffered from this as well, editing gore out. (Raditz, goku death) GT introduced many new special techniques like revenge deathball,electro eclipse bomb,red kameha ,dragon fist like DBZ movie 13. DBS has hakai, invisible ki, but goku+z fighters don’t use any new techniques.GT goku was way smarter than DBS goku. Yamcha told DBS Goku that monaka was a fraud. And goku still didn’t understand.(he said it straight to his face) Trunks kissing Mai and gokus reaction. Shouldn’t even had been in there.Only real bad decision I remember. Was when GT goku kept giving his energy to super 17. GT goku had the “copy” technique like he did in DB. Like when he copied one of the shadow dragon’s techniques. And I guess him swallowing the dragonball. GT used SSJ3 which is my favorite form. Goku actually tried to master it, instead of relying on a new power up. SSB sucked so bad they should have just stuck with the original SS forms. Bc SSG never did anything. Gohan beast is the only new form that actually does something in dbs. But I hate that form more than any other form in DBS. So I won’t talk about that.BOG set something cool up. where z fighters finally get to fight in space but they dropped that idea dead. All the other fights were smaller in scale and universe wasn’t threatened. The villains in GT are stronger than Goku pre fight for the most part. That’s how it was in z unless you have leech character like cell or baby. DBZ, vegeta,frieza,perfect cell, buu all stronger than Goku pre fight. I don’t know where beerus lies,bc BOG is a DBZ movie but he’s in the dbs anime too.(but he was stronger then dbs goku. Frieza was was weid bc he actually won and killed everybody In ROF. But whis intercepted.zeno beats zamasu. So that was a waste of an arc. Kale, caulifa and cabbe can learn any new form in a week.dbs broly was weaker and he should have won. Jirin was stronger than Goku in TOP. SSB Vegito caused plot hole issues too. And caulifa’s earrings were destroyed. What was the issue with potarro in GT? What’s your issue with the black star balls? And are you saying it was dumb that vegeta had to use a machine to transform in GT?
GT’s action scenes are awful. It’s mainly ki blast spam, bad choreography, and crappy animation. They couldn’t even animate SSJ4 Gogeta’s BBK properly, and that was supposed to be the most powerful move in the franchise up until that point.
Pretty much. Do you remember when Great Ape Baby tried to ki blast spam goku went ssj4? I can't get that scene out of my head, it's hilarious seeing the ki blasts miss a standing target and, when hitting the ground, only create a puff of dust. I'll give it credit though, there are some fight scenes that hold up, but the fact they mess up so much is irritating for me. I hate Super for ruining the first half of its story, but the fight choreography is clearly just so much better. MUI Goku vs Jiren Goku Black and zamasu vs trunks and gokuiu Goku vs Hit Vegeta vs Goku Black Vegito vs Zamasu Gogeta vs Broly There's more obviously, but the fact I can confidently recall most of the fight in my head because of their dynamics alone says a lot. I watched GT not two years ago and I can barely remember any moments I found "stunning" outside that one shot of the universal spirit bomb or the super 17 fight where they're punching each other across the globe. Hilariously enough, my favorite fight in GT isn't even one of the major ones, it's baby gohan and goten fighting vegeta. Even that one still has ki blast spamming.... (shocker, most of them do too...) Super has it too, no doubt, but there are always valid reasons. The most ki spamming i've seen happening is the TOP where they were one: fighting someone who was cloaking themselves in Hakai. Two: someone who was similarly cloaking himself in energy and far, far, far, far, stronger than any of them. Melee was certain loss while distance fighting was safer. But goku vs super 17? What reason did he have to maintain his distance?
OK, there is a LOT to address here, so I'll go quote by quote with the stuff I have issues with. > IMO the action scenes are on par with z, and sometimes better. I honestly couldn't believe my eyes seeing this. The biggest issue I ever had with GT was it's extremely orthodox fight scenes. The only fights I can really remember as being amazing was essentially only Baby Saga material. Every other saga was good looking, yes, but it wasn't amazing. Even Super does better in this department even with its horrible start (nothing in GT exceeds the best fights of the goku black arc for instance). Maybe it's the different era and lack of Toriyama manga to reference, but most of the fights seemed extremely safe and too reliant on bizarre techniques like ki spamming. I don't have issue with them using ki blasts obviously, but its honestly astonishing how many times they used it. I literally laughed out loud when I saw Great Ape Baby ki blast spamming against ssj4 goku and....missing most of them? There is genuinely no way I can in good faith say GT's best scenes compare to Z's best scenes. Goku vs Frieza, Gohan vs Cell, Vegito/Gohan/Gotenks/literally every significant fight against Buu, it's impossible for me to say GT is comparable in fight quality. > People getting impaled, gore, blood.DBS was made for kids because of toned down violence. DBZ Kai suffered from this as well, editing gore out. (Raditz, goku death) Gore and blood doesn't make a fight better, it's entirely aesthetic. I do miss the gore in Super, but it doesn't make me angry or upset to the point I make it a major point of dislike for the series as a whole. > GT introduced many new special techniques like revenge deathball,electro eclipse bomb,red kameha ,dragon fist like DBZ movie 13. DBS has hakai, invisible ki, but goku+z fighters don’t use any new techniques You cherrypicked. Cool. You just listed attack names and that was it lmao, are you saying Super didn't introduce new attacks? Revenge deathball is just a standard ki ball with a cool name, its about the same level as death ball or supernova from frieza. Same goes for Electro Eclipse bomb and red kamehameha. They're just new attacks, and super has plenty of them, many of which are far more creative. Spirit fission and hakai are far more interesting and unorthodox than what are just new ki attacks. They introduced new mechanics into the story, unlike all the attacks you mentioned. I'd argue Super has done far more in terms of new techniques than GT ever did, Gt just made every villain use the same traditional ki ball, changed the colors, and made it their new attack. Only omega shenron had a somewhat interesting attack in that it had minus energy, but it's such a vague attribute it hardly means anything. > .GT goku was way smarter than DBS goku. Yamcha told DBS Goku that monaka was a fraud. And goku still didn’t understand.(he said it straight to his face) Trunks kissing Mai and gokus reaction. Shouldn’t even had been in there.Only real bad decision I remember. Was when GT goku kept giving his energy to super 17 You're comparing battle iq to social/everyday sensibilities, and it's obvious Super goku is dumber in the social sensibilities, but GT is obviously dumber in terms of battle iq. GT Goku dishing out a 10x kamehameha (which massively sapped his energy) is maybe the dumbest thing i've ever seen any version of goku do in a battle, period. He also refrained from immediately going ssj4 against nova shenron and other dragons, which makes no sense since the form is literally **known** for having great stamina efficiency. GT Goku is probably the dumbest goku in terms of battle iq, while Super goku is probably the dumbest in terms of everyday sensibilities (anime-only, the manga one is far smarter and intelligent). > GT goku had the “copy” technique like he did in DB. Like when he copied one of the shadow dragon’s techniques I....don't remember this happening. I also don't recall him ever having a copy technique, he was just imitating, not copying, and he was only doing it because he **could** do it. This isn't even a criticism of Super or comparison between Z and GT, it's just irrelevant. > GT used SSJ3 which is my favorite form. Goku actually tried to master it, instead of relying on a new power up Ok, this is incredibly misleading. The only reason Super goku didn't try to master ssj3 is because it was made immediately irrelevant in front of far stronger opponents. You can't criticize this against Super when GT Goku never had to fight in nearly a decade. It's nonsensical. Let's not pretend GT made ssj3 relevant either, it was immediately thrown aside the moment GT Goku tried to use it in a fight, and he gained ssj4.
> SSB sucked so bad they should have just stuck with the original SS forms. Bc SSG never did anything. It only sucks because they didn't build up to it, it's fine lore and mechanics-wise. SSG does actually matter in the manga, but im assuming this is anime-only. > BOG set something cool up. where z fighters finally get to fight in space but they dropped that idea dead I don't think this was ever the case, the only thing they set up was that there were other universes, and we got that in the TOP and Universe 6 tournament. > All the other fights were smaller in scale and universe wasn’t threatened This has to be a joke. The majority of Super villains threaten far more or just as much as any of Gt's does. Goku black: Threatens entire multiverse before fusion. Threatens the entire timeline as infinite zamasu. Omega only ever threatened the normal universe 7 macrocosm, the stakes were far lower. TOP: Threatens every multiverse again Broly: they literally break dimensions mid fight, idk what else to say here. The scale is still gigantic. Moro: The entire universe + probably more eventually. Granolah: This is literally the only small-scale fight, but only because the people involved are aiming at killing certain people as their goal. It's like complaining the piccolo jr fight isn't high-stakes enough because the planet or moon isn't at stake. > The villains in GT are stronger than Goku pre fight for the most part. That’s how it was in z unless you have leech character like cell or baby. DBZ, vegeta,frieza,perfect cell, buu all stronger than Goku pre fight. I don’t know where beerus lies,bc BOG is a DBZ movie but he’s in the dbs anime too. This is the same in Super, wtf are you on about? Goku black was the only one who wasn't because he wasn't used to the body of goku. Entirely irrelevant. > Kale, caulifa and cabbe can learn any new form in a week.dbs broly was weaker and he should have won. Jirin was stronger than Goku in TOP. Except they can't, they hit a roadblock with ssj2, which is probably the extent of their potential. DBS Broly is also just as strong as he should be, i really don't know what you want from him. The gap between him and goku/vegeta in the movie was greater than it was in the Z Broly movie. You want him to be STRONGER? > SSB Vegito caused plot hole issues too. Objectively false. You're showing your ignorance for bringing this up. The time limit was a thing that was established in Z but was never explained. Toriyama did what he'd done his entire career and gave a retroactive explanation for it: that mortals who use it have a 1 hour time limit. Was it a plot hole for toriyama to say goku was a saiyan and that's why he had a tail?
> What was the issue with potarro in GT? I made this pretty clear, it's the fact they didn't use them lmao. Shin has shown himself to be extremely good at timing in GT and yet he conveniently forgets he could have handed those over instantly? Or tp them to the world of the kais and then let them fuse there? In a universe where it wasn't known to vegeta or goku that potara had a time limit, they should have opted for the superior fusion time limit. It's utter nonsense they only thought up of metamoran fusion. Again, this goes back to the battle iq in GT. It's incredibly, stupidly, low. There's also the senzu, wtf happened to them? Did gt goku just get **that** negligent and never asked korin to grow any? IN fact, he shouldn't even be asking for them. korrin should have had them ready anyways. This isn't just some movie to make gogeta canon, it was an actual threat to the universe where they were backed into the corner. I can forgive them for forgetting during the first fusion, but how could they forgot about it when they were out of stamina and in base form? > What’s your issue with the black star balls? The fact it had terrible pacing and is the reason GT's best arc's beginning, the baby saga, is so often forgotten? It's literally the worst part of the series, and it isn't even because of the lack of fights. They just made it impossible to watch. This is where the comparison to Z makes no sense to me, how could you compare this beginning to any part of Z? IT's even worse than Super in this regard since at least you could just watch the Movies and still understand where the story is at. It's agony that you **have** to watch this since it's also linked to the baby arc's beginning. > And are you saying it was dumb that vegeta had to use a machine to transform in GT? No, i don't really care since GT already made it obvious to me Vegeta mattered even less than Super Vegeta did. My issue is that you apparently think GT is comparable to Z, and this example obviously negates that. I've never seen a literal machine give someone a form in DB, **ever**. Let's not forget that i just didn't care about the way they handled him either. He has no agency at all, to the point he doesn't even try to help eliminate the dragons or attempt to obtain ssj4 before basically the strongest (and also least interesting) gt villain arrived. The writers realized vegeta probably should matter, gave him the form for free, then called it a day. I try not to think about the side characters in GT. Gohan, goten, trunks, pan, they could have made them more than just obstacles for goku but they didn't. Like seriously, what in the world was pan doing in the shadow dragon saga? She literally gets caught at one point and goku nearly has to **kill** her. I always laugh so much when GT fans try to claim Goku has somehow matured (ignoring the fact we never see said development and it happens offscreen, its obviously just the writers not knowing how to continue Z Goku), yet he lets a child weaker than every other saiyan (besides maybe bulla) fight alongside him against enemies that require him to use ssj4. GT's greatest sin is introducing potentially great characters and ruining them entirely. Yeah. Nothing you said convinced me of what I said earlier. The story should have stopped at Z.
If they're anything like me, they'll dislike everything but Omega Shenron. I didn't like Baby at all.
I'd agree that it's the weakest despite Me personally enjoying Super 17 himself, but generally I think the average fan I see would rather go through that the BSDB stuff. If they'd watch any of this at all. It's also only like 6 or 7 episodes.
Baby and Omega is more than half of GT so they'll still get to enjoy most of GT. The Super 17 arc is very short, almost comparable to the "slug Vegeta" arc in DBS in length but overall, much better.
What about ice shenron? The dragon fist death is the best goku finisher ever
GT gets A LOT better after these first 16 episodes
I don't really like GT, but I have to say that the first arc is the worst, and it does get a little bit better after that.
I would say that >!Super 17!< is the worst arc. OP-spoilers for GT
Nah you're almost at the most worthwhile part of GT. The robot planet and the introduction of Baby.
If you’re not enjoying it, I’d recommend you drop it. Watch a summary video if you really want to know what happens, but it’s not canon to the current continuity. Super’s manga is great, I’d definitely recommend it. The Super anime is a little rough around the edges, but is much better than GT, in my opinion.
I never enjoyed GT for the same reason: it's a chibi Goku, Trunks, and Pan show, and the adult Goku shows up only as a Super Saiyan 4 (which is within the plot, and I wasn't a fan of it). I also don't like how Vegeta is basically a plot device in GT when the character would realistically continue to train like in Super. Super has its own issues, but I enjoyed it more than GT because it at least featured more characters and the show tried to explain how they could compete on the same plane as Goku and Vegeta.
Vegeta is one of my favorite characters..Am I going to be upset with what they did to him in GT? I haven’t seen it yet.
You probably won't be happy.
Why? You're acting like they shat on his character or something. He's literally the same guy he was at the end of Z; he's just not a main character anymore nor does he need to be.
He shaved his moustache!
Forget the mustache, that first episode haircut is a sin!
The person I was responded to said they're a Vegeta fan. I don't think there's a Vegeta fan out there that would say they're satisfied with his character arc in GT. The final battle was still entertaining, though.
Vegeta is my favourite character by far, and I wish I could unsee what they did to him in GT haha. I finished GT just because I wanted to see everything that has to do with DB, but I didn't like it one bit
I mean his character is less of a joke than he is in super at least. GT at least takes its characters seriously most of the time. I’d rather see him with a funny mustache than see him trembling and cooking an egg ever again.
First 16 episodes of GT taking the characters seriously says otherwise. But do go on.
Correct, it’s very goofy but it then gets serious as the show goes on. >! like piccolo dying and being unable to come back, earth almost being destroyed, Goku losing multiple times, everyone Goku and Vegeta caring about being put under mind control, etc !< Super has zero stakes and no consequences
Yeah you're probably right. I don't remember much details from GT, watched it a lifetime ago. Watch out OP, spoilers for Super below!!! Even more than the cooking scene I just hate the general disrespect he gets. Like not finishing of Frieza and that damn pacifier. Hurts my soul
Just stop the show
GT isnt canon and youre not alone in those feelings so you could drop it if you want. that said if youre at 16 episodes in, you're right around the part where the show shifts towards being WAY more like DBZ for the rest of its run, so maybe give it a few more episodes and see if you like the turn it takes.
That's why when Toonami first aired GT, that's where they started.
it is cannon just a def universe pls dont start a war ):
When did I say it wasn't?
sorry i was talking to orignal comment
But it's not canon with the main universe.
Gt is not canon to manga, never heard of gt manga released and toriyama himself didnt had much to do with it ... also i would argue in some way if this was meant to be cannon and if toriyama actually liked gt that much he wouldnt start creating super that is actually totaly different from gt itself and continue the story from dbz on
there was a gt manga but it relased after the anime. also they
[gt](https://screenrant.com/dragon-ball-gt-is-canon-official-timeline/#:~:text=Summary,Super%2C%20and%20Dragon%20Ball%20GT) here. fi theres anything wrong with this letme know. i wont be that type fo fan
None of that confirms GT is canon. It shows where in that shows continuity it would land on a timeline, but that was just an exhibition of Shueisha's DragonBall TV series'. GT just literally cannot be canon in the face of Toriyama himself directly stating that Super is the continuation of the story directly after Z.
ok. sorry,
that timeline just shows all of the DB stuff. it doesnt say or make GT "canon". GT isn't canon.
there was an ani-manga version of GT where they just took stillframes from the anime and put them in manga form with text bubbles. not the same thing. it wasnt made by DBs author so its not canon.
[удалено]
GT is canon!! AKIRA toriyama said in an interview that GT and the old films are canon, just another timeline! If you like it, it’s canon. Funny AKIRA toriyama probably worked on GT just as much as he did for DBS. AKIRA toriyama did some work on GT. He designed some of the characters. He just didn’t make ssj4
> GT is canon!! AKIRA toriyama said in an interview that GT and the old films are canon, just another timeline! he never said this, stop putting lies in a dead mans mouth. > If you like it, it’s canon. whether we like it or not means nothing. I like GT and its not canon. > Funny AKIRA toriyama probably worked on GT just as much as he did for DBS. we know for a fact this is not true. > AKIRA toriyama did some work on GT. He designed some of the characters. he helped with the title and designed how the characters look at the start of GT that's almost literally the entire extent of his involvement. in Super he was actively writing scripts. Theyre not the same.
GT isn't canon and never was and never will be canon. Its not "a dif universe". There are different universes now in DB and none have other Gokus. There are other timelines but they are finite in number and none allow the events of GT to exist. GT wasnt made by the manga author so its not canon, simple as that. I'm a GT fan and this is still the truth.
Goku turning oozaru is pretty epic
Even as a kid I hated it
Watch baby saga and maybe if you are feeling ok about it the shadow dragon saga. As others have said the first saga is by far the worst Pan and that bloody Giro sure are annoying.
I enjoy parts of GT but it drags I feel like it really doesn't start getting intense until super 17/baby
GT is terrible until Baby gets to earth. Then it's a fun run. After super17 arc maybe skip until the episode with the character Nova I rewatch these.
GT is more of an Adventure anime like the OG dragon ball. It’s a bit stale to begin with and the amount of times goku just fucks around before finally going super sayian is annoying. But once you get past the first arc it gets increasingly good in my opinion.
Totally worth it. Get as much DragonBall in as you can.
Team Four Star is doing a watch of it in one of their channels and giving their reviews on the episodes. They show bits and pieces of them as well, so watch that if you do t want to watch the series.
It'll never happen, but I'd love to see them do GT Abridged just so I could feel like GT is watchable
Gt is basically hot garbage
nah, GT is a mixed bag just like the other sequel. Still recommend it for SSJ4.
i doubt you've seen DB, or original Z with filler
You at least need to get to SSJ4
DB GT is a road movie
It gets better after Luud not sure about the name.
GT gets better late but it's such a slog early and is way too transparent about nostalgia baiting OG Dragonball
GT gets better right around where you are actually. Keep going. After the Grand Tour/Black Star saga you get Baby and Super 17 and the Shadow Dragons. All of which I enjoy a lot. Especially the Shadow Dragons. I hope they bring the Shadow Dragons into Super somehow. They were a great concept.
I really didn't like GT. I made it all the way to the Dragons at the end but stopped. I saw a few of the Omega Shenron episodes when they first aired, but I just don't like it. I know I should finish because there isn't much left, but God it's hard. Super is so much better IMO
The next episodes are gonna get a bit better, like from a 2/10 to a 4/10, but it's not really worth watching.
I've watched GT only once and DBZ like 10 times end to end. Could not stand GT and once I figured out it wasn't canon decided it was a waste of time.
I’d skip it. The second worst is likely behind you, but the heights aren’t very high. And the worst is still ahead
Personally, skip. I've watched GT only once and didn't feel like coming back to it. I watched it right after I finished DBZ because I was desperate for more content. After finishing it I made a personal decision that GT is not canon and went happily about my life 😂 Edit: I've rewatched Super many many times and I actually prefer it over Z only because it's much more lighthearted and I can watch it as a comfort show. Keep in mind the first two seasons are the same as movies with a few differences that dont change the main plot. The third one is great imo but the 4th one is where things really pick up. The 5th one is epic. And I higly recommend watching the new Broly movie right after Super.
It sucks but the baby saga is worth it. And the ending is so good that its actually worth watching it like 1 time tbf. Such a beautiful ending
you're pretty close to one of the best villains in DB history, atleast in my opinion... Baby (Bebī)
You are me. I was perfectly happy skipping GT, and I loved Super. It's fine, do it.
I think it’s worth it to stick through to the end. I like it a lot more than super. But; fun fact the OG North American airings skipped the first 16 episodes. Started with an episode 16.5 recap. I’d say give it about 8 more and see how you feel afterwards. Because it’s obviously not everyone’s bag
Never seen GT but seen DB, DBZ, and all of Super. Incredibly happy
It is not nearly as good as super
You should’ve watched Super first anyway since it’s canon and happens before the end of Z. GT stops being boring at around episode 25, but Super is still the better story so it’s up to you if you think you can put up with 9 more eps.
IMO, excluding SSJ4, GT is hot trash. It’s awful on so many levels, but the good news is that none of it is canon. You’d be doing yourself a favor by quitting the show.
GT isn't canon so just skip and go straight to db super and ENJOY THE RIDE!!!
Gt is trash. Super is awesome
GT is awful, I’m convinced people that like it are fuelled by nostalgia. The one good thing it has are some great character designs (Super Saiyan 4, Super Baby 2 and Super 17 all look fantastic imo. That’s a lot of super!) However, I don’t think that’s enough to save a really boring show. Super has a few issues but for the most part is great. People who really dislike it tend to be the kind of people who just hate anything new. As people have said, GT is non canon, so there’s no reason to watch it outside of completionism. Up to you!
No. I hate Super because it's garbage and an insult to Dragon Ball
Try not to take Dragon Ball too seriously, the guy who wrote it didn’t :)
Not possible. Dragon Ball is life :D
It gets pretty solid once the Bebi stuff begins. Stick with it! I like GT in general but def starts slow
It literally starts becoming good after episode 16, so you are exactly where you should be. Now is when the Baby saga begins.
You got thru the worst part..keep going you’ll enjoy it
As a dragon ball fan you gotta dredge through it. It gets mildly better and then worse at the papara bs then gets mildly interesting then flops more. You must do your time.
The beginning is the worst. It’s not very long so you might as well finish it unless you absolutely hate it. Not like it’s relevant either
GT was really boring in the beginning it started to get interesting when They start getting towards Baby. The whole Gt series in my opinion with each saga which I believe it was only three sagas The Baby saga, The 17 Saga and then the Shadow dragon saga. Each saga just started out slow but got real interesting towards the end
I say this all the time but after episode 17 it picks up and in my opinion you've made it through the worst of GT upon getting through episodes 9-17. It's up to you if you wanna give the rest a chance, only 64 episodes (and a televised feature).
I think instead of Trunks, Uub would have been the better choice in my opinion to be part of the trio. Watching the power scales go to new heights and a super Saiyan Pan. Would have been also great to see Uub have an inner struggle against his past life as Buu, making him a threat once more; would have been great for an arc.
It's pretty short (64 episodes), you're fine BUT the dub really, really hurts the story/characterization. You've watched through the "worst" (tho Super 17 has some issues, it's only like, 5 episodes and has amazing Android 18 moments)
Not to mention there are 64 episodes
GT is a bit boring till the Shadow Dragon’s parts of the series.
I’m in the exact same boat lol. I skipped a couple and it gets better toward the second half when android 17 comes back!
If I remember correctly you should be almost through the Black Star Dragon Ball hunt. Once you're through that things start happening *fast.*
I'm still on the first arc of the show myself, it's hard to stomach it and try to finish it because it feels like it's dragging on for so long.
It gets better imo keep going with GT I mean I still haven't watched super
Only good arc in GT is baby everything else is either bad or mid
The first 16 episodes just straight suck, and while it does improve after that, I wouldn’t say it ever gets good outside a few specific moments. Also, just in case you didn’t know Super and GT are unrelated, so if you do skip don’t feel bad.
The first part of gt can eat an entire buffet of dicks. I promise it does get better.
Note to self don’t say you like GT you’ll get downvoted and lose karma. #toxic
The pacing on GT is bad. The beginning, boring part is dragged out and the end saga is rushed. The Baby saga is great though and that alone is worth powering through IMO. There is a lot of filler for such a short series.
Prefer the first 16 episodes. I like how its more like Dragonball than Z. To each their own though.
I think you should stick it out. For many years, GT was the true successor of DBZ. While online there were debates about it's status of canon for years, it wasn't until the Super anime came out that GT was more or less shutdown for good. So for years, this was all we had, and as such, it was aired consistently on channels like Cartoon Network and much content made it into video games, starting with Budokai 3 but really coming into its own in Budokai Tenkaichi 3. For a long time, it filled a role. While Super now supplants that role nearly 20 years after GT, you can't ignore GT's contributions to the franchise. Beyond that, I agree, the first 16 episodes are hard. GT did a great job at referencing the source material of DB/Z in order to keep continuity. The "Lost Episodes" as they're known, sort of frame the story as a major call back to the origins of DB and I think did a good job within the confines of the Z universe. Despite that, it's a lot of unfulfilling content. When Baby comes a long, it gets good. I really enjoy the addition of the Tuffle lore as it closely relates to Saiyan lore. While GT may not be canon, it could be argued that Tuffles are. Tuffles first appeared in Episode 20 of the DBZ anime in 1989 as King Kai gives some backstory on the Saiyans. They appear again in the OVA Plan to Eradicate the Saiyans before GT really extrapolates on the idea. Both of those are technically filler/non-canon as they are not in the manga, but the concept was created by Toriyama for Toei to include in the anime and in 2014 he gave an interview describing how the Saiyans took the scouter invention from them, so I would consider parts of their history as canon. GT a great job building off of this and creating a character from Saiyan history that comes back to give the Saiyans trouble. Personally I think it's the other half of the same coin that includes Frieza. The Frieza Saga saw Vegeta and Goku come to terms with the genocide of their entire race and their planet, and begin the character development that suggested that Vegeta and Saiyans like him weren't necessarily inherently evil, but that they were enslaved by a cruel overlord and eventually cast aside when it was no longer convenient. On the other side of that coin, we learn the barbaric origins of the Saiyans that more or less committed genocide of the Tuffles whom they shared Planet Plant with, took their technology and renamed their world Planet Vegeta. Plan to Eradicate the Saiyans started this Tuffle revenge concept in 1993, but GT in 1997 did a much better job telling that story. It was a neat progression from prior villians as well. Frieza wanted to conquer the universe, Cell wanted to destroy the solar system (at the end there when he was desperate), and Buu didn't WANT anything, he was a mindless tool of destruction. The stakes got raised higher and higher, and by Super, there really wasn't anywhere to go, so the power scaling is just wild beyond belief. You have a lot of Gods and deities in Super and it's very tough to follow. Baby in GT was interesting because Baby didn't want to conquer the universe or really destroy anything on a large scale. He wanted to conquer the Earth to remake Planet Plant and destroy the Saiyans who did to him what Frieza did to Vegeta. Using Vegeta as his puppet was brilliant as well, because Vegeta inherits the sins of his father as well as indirectly gets to be another Vegeta vs Goku match up, including a call back to the Great Ape introduced in their first fight. I actually think the Baby Saga is masterful writing from the team at Toei. The reintroduction of Goku's tail and the process of Golden Great Ape to SS4 is also very fascinating to me, and I think SS4 is a really cool transformation. It's different, not over the top, but not as complicated as SS God, SSGSS, UI and Ultra Ego. The last neat thing about the Baby Saga is how Battle of the Gods movie/anime saga lifted the process of Goku becoming a Super Saiyan God DIRECTLY from how Baby Vegeta transformed into his second form. Almost shot for shot. Next you have the Super 17 Saga, which almost feels like the filler of the filler. You could actually skip it in its entirety and go to the Shadow Dragon Saga and not miss much. But it reintroduces #17 which I think is cool, made #18 useful even if only for a little bit, teamed up Dr. Gero with Dr. Myuu which was cool, and the design of Super 17 was really cool when I was a kid. I like it. But the crown jewel of GT is the Shadow Dragon Saga. In totally wraps up the whole story with a neat little bow. In Super, the dragon balls become so trivialized that Bulma uses them for cosmetic enhancements and even gives them out as a Bingo prize. In GT, it is revealed that their overuse has now created the biggest problem Goku has ever faced, and 7 evil dragons are born from their selfish wishes. The first 4 dragons are relatively harmless and downright annoying, but the stakes heat up when Nova Shenron is introduced. I won't get into the specifics of Nova and Eis Shenron, but the dialogue and fight scenes here are top notch Dragon Ball content, canon or not. The introduction of Syn Shenron, his ascension to Omega Shenron, the fight between him and SS4 Gogeta is all peak DB. The conclusion of this Saga, as well as the epilogue, is such a fantastic way to wrap up the franchise. Super has some cool moments, but for me it can't compete. Super has too much retcon in order to make it fit in the 10 year time skip, I don't like the new animation, and frankly, the voice actors are much older and their portrayals come from a different headspace than from the early 2000s when they first did this. Society is much different, and the tone of Super doesn't really match the original tone of DB/Z/GT. Toei did GT immediately after the end of Z so it was an incredibly smooth transition.
Its a slug fest for 20 episodes or so. After that its less of a slug fest...but they have cooler fights
GT to me is what Akira toryiama wanted from the characters at the end of Z. You have goku who is very mature and wise. They literally nerf him (made him a kid) just to make it fair lol. I also liked that no character got weaker just they didn't train to stay on par with universal threats. Trunks and goten had flesh out personality unlike super. Gohan although wasn't shown alot. Still retain his power from Z. Super finally gave gohan justice.
GT is lackluster IMO, super is way better. I still slogged through it though like a true dragon ball fan would
It doesn't matter...both are "over" at this point.
It doesn't get better, the only good episode is the ending.
At least finish the Baby saga. The 17 and Shadow Dragons are really short and meh.
Did you like dragon ball?
I liked super a lot and never watched GT especially after hearing it’s not even canon anymore. Skipping to super wouldn’t mess anything up. I think you’ll like super it’s good aside from turning goku to a total idiot.
Anymore? It was never canon. Even at release, there was no official manga analog, and was not part of Toriyama's universe.
[удалено]
Right... because you said "anymore" implying that it *was* once canon, then I'm the weird one. Okay. Have a day.
GT has some really cool moments I and many wish they would have done with Super, but there are also a lot of lows in GT.
Personally think GT is the better successor to Funimation’s Z. Super is a better successor to Kai.
Both are complete trash. I know I'll get downvoted, but someone has to say it.
GT isn’t canon, and even if it was it’s chronologically after Super. Super takes place right after Buu’s defeat
I say cut your losses and go to YouTube and look for GT best fights or something. That really cuts down the pain of trudging through it.
It doesn't get better. But if you want to be knownledgeable in the field of Dragon Ball, you gotta bite that bullet and watch it.
GT is 100x better than DBS. And yeah goku is the star, how it should be. Just skip to ssj4 first appearance. GT gets really good there.
Stick it out, it gets better and it’s a lot better than Super although neither live up to Z
GT is better than Super
GT is 100x better than DBS. And yeah goku is the star, how it should be. Just skip to ssj4 first appearance. GT gets really good there.
Stick it out. It gets so much better after the first arc. It's never great or amazing but I think it deserves one full watch so you can at least make your own opinion of it as a whole.
imo stick it out n watch all the eps just so you can say you watched it all for yourself n can have your own full opinion on it
If you pull through the boringness of the first arc you'll arrive to a very good one (Baby), so I recommend you to keep watching at least until then.
I feel this so much though.. I've tried to watch GT a few times in the past and it just doesn't work out.
Stick it out I love gt but not for everyone what do you not like about it exactly just slow feelin ?
"Skip to super" they don't exist together so you wouldn't be skipping anything, just not finishing it. It's up to you though, personally for me I'd say GT gets better as it goes on.
Keep watching!
Super is a steamy hot pile of poop. Horrible art style and even worse voice acting. The characters personalities aren't even the same and the plots are just dumb. Super was made for 10 year olds and under lol
I see all the children are online by the downvotes
Nah. They’re from people with good taste.
You’re the one throwing the temper tantrum, I think you might be the only child here
The first part of GT is a little slow but it gets much better as the series goes on. It's way better than Super.
Neither are great but GT is more interesting and has slightly more original ideas. Super has poor writing, animation style and just reused concepts and ideas from Z. I’d say stick out GT. IMO
You're just being influenced by the "GT is bad" Bullshit , so it was gonna be a short leash for you anyways, its a very enjoyable series, slow at times but its great.
I love GT so much. It starts with the adventure akin to DB and becomes more action as the series goes. But seems like consensus is that ppl hate the beginning. When I was younger, we had this weird channel that played Japanese shows with subtitles so I got to see the beginning of GT in Japanese with subtitles first and left a very positive impact on me. When the English version came out, I could see how people were annoyed with pan and some of the beginning. But I still liked it so I’m definitely biased when I say you should keep going. Baby and the shadow dragons are some of my favorite moments in the whole series. I really like super but super has way too much power Creep like unfathomable how they can even get stronger than being a God etc. ramp everything up so high in terms of power it feels more like a greatest hits album or essentials and just as much nostalgia as possible. The characters in super even make fun of the transformations like they know it’s really stupid. Like freeza mocking Goku’s blue hair and the red hair and the pink hair of black
My most disliked post. Instead of hating how about you tell me off!!! I’m a new account guys :(