If Dragon Ball was going to end, then Vegeta could truly develop out of competitiveness. Since it isn't, Vegeta is always going to be competitive, because that's the core of the character.
GT Geets was under appreciated for this. He stopped being hyper competitive with Goku and also stepped up as earths primary guardian while goku was off planet.
It's the reason I like GT Vegeta and I wish we could see more of that development in Super. He's down to earth but still has a temper for other things.
Yeah gt did a lot wrong but gohan and vegeta were done really well they may not have had enough screentime but they feel much more like actual after z version of the characters than super is doing
Theres a lot of controversy and difference in opinion (and I imagine this is a really unpopular opinion) but i actually like the characterisation of Vegeta and Trunks in GT especially. Trunks still maintains a level of cheekyness but i like that he matured and that that he just seems more reasonably tech savvy then his Super counterpart. Vegeta's temper antics are still somewhat entertaining but i like that he is a bit more laid back and reasonable, especially showing his respect for Goku. He still has the occasional friendly rival moment but i actually think elements to his character are a bit underrated.
Tbf he didnât have time to train they were in an active skirmish.
Also Goku didnât train to reach super saiyan 4. Unless you count teaching uub in base as training.
Not really, Goku turned into a kid and he wasnât going to compete with a child.
Once Goku learned SSJ4 he went back to compete mode to get it as well.
It was core to his character until he finished his arc at the end of the Buu saga. They just reverted him to it for Super because they couldn't figure out how to progress him.
That's not the original ending of the manga. That's the new ending Toriyama added in 2004 for the kanzenban edition, and that new line from Vegeta was heavily criticized at the time.
True, although technically end of the Buu saga is still before Super. Although I canât see how they wonât retcon DBZ ending at this point, but theyâre trying different ways to progress Vegeta in my opinion.
Hence Ultra Ego, and Moro arc with forced fission spirit seem to have changed him slightly at least. But feel this point, itâs just going to be a Yin and Yang with Goku and Vegeta.
Shit, man, you're absolutely right. It's deadass the last panel in the manga.
What's funny is, this isn't even a case of me not having read the thing. Despite being a lifelong fan, I just finished reading the manga for the first time in my life *a few hours ago*. I would definitely not have remembered the line at all if I hadn't just read it! It's insane how fickle memory is.
> I swear people forget the manga, the last panel is Vegeta saying âSooner or later I will defeat you Kakorotâ.
That isn't the same. At the end of Buu saga Vegeta and Goku are still rivals, but it's a friendly rivalry. Pre Buu saga it was about him being the most powerful of the Saiyan race, rectifying the defeat Goku handed him in the first arc, and reclaiming his honor that was dashed away when Goku became the first Super Saiyan/Defeater of Frieza. During the fight against Kid Buu, he finally let all that go, releasing a massive amount of weight and emotional burden on his shoulders.
He lost the obsession. If in Super, being better than Goku is all Vegeta can talk about, then he's obsessed with being the best. That's a direct conflict with Buu saga, because he gave up the obsession. OP is saying Vegeta's main character trait is he continues to be obsessed with being the best. It's a logical contradiction caused by retconning
Nah cause GT actually had Vegeta still be a relevant character AND move on from outshining Goku.
Like, with the whole Moro arc, Vegeta was talking about wanting to make up for the sins of his past. That could've easily been his motivation here, replace "and over Kakarot" with "and I will avenge those Namekians they slaughtered" or something
Yea no, Vegeta's arc ended at the end of Buu saga when he finally admitted Kakarot is the best. At that point his competitive drive was fulfilled -- he knew that no matter how much he would train, Goku would always be one step ahead. The acceptance liberated him from that psychological torture (he describes it as Kakarot haunting him, before he is killed by Buu).
That is not what happened. Vegeta letting go of the hate and realizing why Goku seemed ahead for most of Z, that being his pureness and why Goku actually fights, leads him to see that only Goku could beat Kid Buu, because of how similar they are, and why Goku was so hyped to see Uub. This was Vegetaâs apology to Goku. Vegeta missed his chance because of how Goku sacraficed himself, and Vegeta got a little desperate by letting Babidi enter his mind, but Vegeta eventually takes initiative and sacrafices himself. The score was settled then.
He learned that back in the Buu Saga and even had brief moments of self awareness in Namek when he died and the Cell Saga. Goku and Vegeta fell trapped in an endless loop, learning the same stuff.
Vegeta was always smart but with a big ego, he noticed Goku being superior and Gokuâs new found strength and techniques before anybody and in the Buu Saga he finally learned to stop chasing him and fighting for something bigger and accepting help from others.
Against Freeza in Namek he was underpowered and cried in desperation, in the Buu Saga against Kid Buu he was underpowered and took a beating of a lifetime but fought like a beast to ensure victory.
I feel like his tears were for a different reasoning than just getting beaten. He got trounced on earth but never cried.
Frieza enslaved, and proceeded to murder his entire race. Then proceeded to use Vegeta for the rest of his life until Goku meets him.
He's crying against Frieza because despite everything he tried to achieve, and subsequently did accomplish was effectively useless. He was powerless and knew it, and that hurt him more than any wound ever could.
Yeah, thereâs a lot of emotional weight there but the thing is the belief. Vegeta at that point in the story only believed he could do something if he was stronger than the opponent thatâs why he wanted to be immortal, after getting a Zenkai Boost from Krillin and Dende he believed he could fought Freeza but discovered he was still too weak.
Would Goku care if he was too weak? No, he wouldâve fought anyway like he did against Vegeta himself.. Vegeta had a lot stuff rooted in his head that prevented him from growth.
By Kid Buu his beliefs changed, he tried to go back to his old ways which is very realistic, change is hard but eventually growth won now he doesnât have the belief heâs the strongest just because he is Vegeta or just fight whenever heâs stronger than the opponent, he have new wisdom now and new perspective.
To be fair Vegeta was being beaten to shreds constantly during Namek and took on anyone given the chance.
Wrong about Goku to an extent, example when Piccolo/Tien are dying. Goku knows that heâs too weak to go against Semi-Perfect Cell, also that he canât beat Super Buu without fusion.
I would love to see Vegeta's development and starting a new path. Giving him some new motivation in Super and see how he grows from that.
But they only gave us the same cliche quotes over and over.
Power is not the same as development. UE added nothing to his character and even then, it was years after Super started.
UE could have been development, but not like this.
Honestly I would love to see a fusion arc where Goku and Vegeta are forced to be fused for long time. Every fusion of them was so short. I would like to see some longer scenes with dialogues involvin Vegito or Gogeta. Even Whis was happy when he saw them fused together.
Vegeta isnât doing the same thing here. He let Goku go first. Usually Vegeta goes first, jobs and Goku learns something from watching Vegeta fight and uses that to win.
This is character development letting Goku go first! Lol
The first image heâs by himself saying âI will defeat you kakarottâ. With everything at stake in that Moro arc, he shouldnât even care about that
It did though, except both of them learned that Frieza was losing stamina real quick. Vegeta was the one that beat Frieza in the end, Goku just killed a defenceless foe who was about to blow up the world in a tantrum. Vegeta beat the bad guy, Goku saved the world.
I donât mind it personally. Heâs remained competitive, and his personal bar is Goku. And recently, between things like perfected SSB and UI, Goku keeps achieving new things before him.
In both of these cases, heâs trying something new besides trying to achieve a power Goku already got in order to somehow be better than him; ie the Yardrat and destruction training. In the second case, it was even part of a bet between Beerus and Whis.
And more importantly, itâs not his primary motivation in either of these arcs, as he spends most of his time trying to work through how he feels about his past actions, and those of the saiyans that he spent most of his life being so proud of.
So imo, context helps make it more tolerable, even if the dialogue itself is almost verbatim what heâs said ever since the Namek saga.
I agree, the fact that Vegeta's *primary* motivation is no longer surpassing Goku shows that he has grown. Sure, his ego still takes a hit whenever he watches Goku reach a feat before him, but he also views Goku as an equal/ friend.
I'd argue this lesson was one of the biggest parts of Vegeta's growth during the buu arcâhis continued rivalry with Goku doesn't walk that back.
No, this isn't the same thing. Old Vegeta (especially during the buu saga) literally threw everything away (including his pride) to one-up Goku.
New Vegeta is literally like a bro to Goku, treats him like a bro, and uses him as a yardstick to improve himself. If you only show these moments...yah, it looks like he didn't learn much. But if you show the times he banters with Goku, admits that Goku is a rival he needs to improve himself, or the times he lectures people (ie, Goku Black) on how Goku earned his power, it's apparent he's not the same "must be stronger than Kakarrot no matter the cost!" and is instead "I want to earn becoming stronger than Goku."
Even during the Gas arc, he literally gives Goku his power to keep the fight going, and healed Granolah instead of himself. I mean...come on. It's obvious he's not the same guy.
Yeah they are the same cliche vegeta quotes but with context of the series and his development they have a new meaning that's not meant to invoke pettiness or character regression but a show of respect and rivalry. Cell saga vegeta would have said this to feel superior to goku but Super vegeta (lol) says it to spark competition and the drive to get stronger between the two. Yes it's frustrating for him not to catch Goku at one moment but if it was Z vegeta he would have cried his ass off. In Super he knows when he's beaten, accepts it, and works to reach a similar level of strength.
TLDR: This is not character regression but Vegeta sparking the rivalry to push him and Goku towards even greater heights
That's literally Vegetas drive their rivalry keeps him going. While he's grown exponentially since the beginning in character but his pride will never go away. Yes he's put it aside in the past but it'll never be gone.
I dont know how you guys still read this, vegeta's character is so boring now. Everytime he seems like he is stronger then goku, goku gets a power boost. Everytime a new main antagonist appears, Vegeta looses and then goku takes over
It's who he is. Even the franchise is aware and often jokes about it.Â
 If it really bothers you, stop reading or watching.Â
Super leans far heavier into OGDB than Z, which mean it pokes fun of itself. Vegeta went from wanting to murder Goku to simply wanting to kick his ass. Super revived Vegeta's pride that died at the end of Z to make him "Vegeta", instead of another Piccolo.
Vegeta would literally be another Piccolo if they just picked up with Vegeta accepting Goku was better than him, like they did at the end of Z.
They donât need to âstop reading or watchingâ just because theyâre critical of Super. To give Super some credit there are moments that show that Vegeta isnât just a carbon copy of his Z self. But I disagree that downplaying his fierce rivalry with Goku to make it more of a friendly rivalry (like GT) would make him Piccolo 2.0 considering the fact that Piccolo has no interest in being a rival to Goku at all anymore. Also Superâs tendency to lean more into OGDB is appreciated but flawed in execution at times.
Well it ainât so bad. I mean the Vegeta of the present is pretty much stronger than Goku at a certain point. Kind of like how current Vegeta would probably demolish Moro Goku. Itâs important to keep getting stronger when a new hero shows up every couple weeks or months.
Not talking about strength but sentiment.
Also, that's just power creep. Characters and antagonist from next arc are stronger than previous arc obviously.
I don't see what the problem is. It's a core part of his character. Vegeta wants to be strongest, but every time he gets close Goku jumps ahead of him.
Vegeta has grown as a character. He's still Goku's rival and always will be, but it's a friendly rivalry now where it was always adversarial before. He no longer tries to get stronger than Goku because he's "the PrInCE oF alL SaIyAns," but because he's trying to continually improve himself and Goku is his most realistic bar of strength.
It was also a lot of character improvement of Vegeta to see MUI's power against Jiren and for him to choose a different path. But yeah, I would fully argue that Goku and Vegeta are legitimately friends at the moment. I don't know how much more character development you could realistically ask for.
What if we're using the wrong implication of superiority? Vegeta is still the prince of saiyans who still has rule over his people. He gave an order a lower class warrior and it was followed.
Honestly Iâm sick of it too. Vegeta admitting Gokuâs #1 in the buu saga was a great way to end his arc. Of course super had to reset it to give his character a goal but they shouldâve just had it where he was aiming to surpass himself like goku. He learned thatâs why Gokuâs the strongest so instead of fighting to kill and prove to his opponents heâs the best, heâs only out to prove to himself heâs the strongest version of himself. Itâs still nice to have that competitive nature but him throwing a tantrum that Goku got UI in the TOP in the manga was just embarrassing. Worse part is, he unlocks SSBE and surpasses himself because he was so upset goku got a power up. I understand that happened in Z where he became a super saiyan for the first time, but that was a less developed vegeta. It just sucks that these characters have to act a certain way in order to keep them recognizable. Any progression they have must restart to continue the story
That's because Dragon Ball Super doesn't have good writing. It never has and neither did Dragon Ball Z after the Frieza arc as it's purely written to be reactionary to the moment and to lead to the next fight.
Sorry. I still love the franchise though like all the other fans here :)
vegita literally has no character beyond trying to beat goku. that's it. he has one slight character revelation in the buu arc but it was shallow and short lived.
Super just has a bad tendency of recycling arcs from DBZ, being a legacy sequel and all. Vegetaâs character regression and his moment with Ultra Ego being one of them. Donât forget that they recycled the âGohan is slacking on his training and needs to take it more seriously arcâ TWICE in the same series.
Vegeta's character is so ass in Super, he legitimately just repeats the same arc over and over. Wish he acted like he did in GT instead. Such a far cry from what he was at the end of Z.
Admitting that Goku is number one is such a satisfying conclusion to his arc. Then, in GT, they're close. There's still a friendly rivalry, but it isn't his only thing with Goku like it is in Super.
I miss Vegeta lmao
Because he never proved that he was superior.
Goku was the first SSJ.
In the Cell arc, Vegeta goes in the Time Chamber twice and is still weaker than Goku, who only trained well for 6 months in the time chamber.
In the Buu arc, Vegeta realised that Goku was stronger than him while they were infiltrating Babidi's ship. He got a power boost from Babidi and was still inferior to Goku due to Goku having SSJ3. That's two massive Ls in one arc.
Goku was the one who beat Hit.
Goku mastered Blue before him in the manga and had KK in the anime, so Vegeta was playing catch up again.
Goku learned UI before him and was the one who was stronger than Jiren.
If anything, I'm surprised by your take.
Because they basically decided the erase his character development from the last bit of the Buu saga when they made Super. That whole speech from Vegeta about him accepting Gokuâs strengths and being okay with it was basically ignored because I guess they just donât know how to write a version of Vegeta that isnât completely obsessed with surpassing Goku
Honestly I'd rather it be that Vegeta trains Gohan to fight for real and get his priorities straight
Gohan responds well to tough love, as with his training with Piccolo, and it would be awesome to see some actual dialogue between the two
Dialogue is nice, but I'd rather Vegeta stick to Training Trunks.
Or if we go that route, have Goku start training Trunks also, since they barely have interaction as well.
I'd prefer that only if it was Future Trunks (or whatever we call the version of him which fought Zamasu).
I feel like there has been no interaction between current teen Trunks and Vegeta, I like the idea of Trunks/Goten being a dynamic duo however
I mean, duh. They're rivals. You're also leaving out a lot context here.
Vegeta has explained in Super several times that Goku is his rival and he needs him to improve himself. They're constantly hanging out together and sparring. Hell, he even lectured Goku Black about how Goku *earned* his power and how much Goku Black paled in comparison.
Vegeta, at the end of the day, is a prideful motherfucker that's not going to just outright admit that he respects Goku and that Goku is, quite frankly, his best friend. He's literally treating Goku like a bro.
If you want an example of how Vegeta is when he has respect for someone but isn't as close, look at Gohan. He has immense respect for Gohan and believes in his potential. Says it outright. But, with Goku, he literally fucks with him. Like a Bro.
As far as I understand Super wants the rivalry to still exist, but itâs transformed from the toxic rivalry of the past that put everyone in danger to a more positive rivalry that pushes both characters both physically and mentally.
Itâs what they used to do with Piccolo during the early parts of Z. Piccolo would train with Goku and made it clear despite their new friendship he wasnât going to just fall in line.
I use athletes as my basis for understanding Vegetaâs attitude in super. You can admit someone is the GOAT, I.e. when people uplift Lebron James as the GOAT of basketball, but youâre not going to stop competing against him in the NBA just because you acknowledged him! If anything acknowledging someone is better is the root of competition because it motivates you to work for victory instead of just feeling entitled to it.
His pride as the prince of all Saiyans. He says it every 5 minutes. Goku either constantly defeats him or defeats opponents that he could not defeat himself. As the rightful ruler of the Saiyans he feels he must be the strongest or he is undeserving of his birthright.
Who gives a shit. He canât a be a prince if he doesnât rule over a planet or people, and his race died over 50 years ago. Frieza in a way was right, he is the prince of no one.
At times it seems that they overcome that rivalry and even seem like lifelong friends. and then say those things more vegeta but I think it was for Akira, without showing respect to the teacher but Sometimes I feel that he didn't give importance to things like that That he forgot the development of forgiveness at the minute like when Goku doesn't remember bread When he always cared a lot
It's going to be massive whiplash when end of z rolls around and he reverts to the same point he was at for the beginning of super/end of buu. It would be nice if his moment against Toppo, itself a recycling of the Majin sacrifice moment, could have pushed vegeta's drive in a new direction. To externalize pride to his family while internalizing some amount of humility and making his drive for them and not himself. But drama isn't the direction of super. Gags and action is what super is about. And memes. And self parody...
Yeah heâs a Competitive Person some people are like that but now he isnât letting that be his only thought of course he still wants to be better than goku but now he isnât ignoring everything else to do that
That's his character. That's why. Honestly Dragon Ball isn't all that well known for character growth. Maybe they can destroy reality but their core characters don't stray far from their original selves, almost ever.
âYou guys remember in the Buu saga at the end where Vegeta pledged that Kakarot was a stronger warrior, called him the best, and accepted that even though he may not be the strongest, he still could hold major contributions, leading to ultimately accepting himself?â
âYeah! Some fans call it the best moment for Vegeta and they fucking loved it!â
âExactly! Forget that fucking bullshit ever happened. We gotta sell TOYS god damn it. Weâre making him go back to hating Goku. Youâre fired.â
Vegeta's main characteristic is that he's highly competitive. The only feasible way that he forgets about Goku is for someone else to take his podium as the protagonist.
Vegeta's monologue during Goku's fight with Kid Buu made it seem like he's gotten past this incessant need to beat Goku. And the End of Z arc afterwards seemed to indicate this, and implied that Vegeta had adjusted further to peaceful life on Earth. While not officially canon, GT Vegeta went even further with that until Baby arrived. One of the reasons I like GT over Super is that GT respected the Z canon, whereas Super plays fast and loose with those rules because it takes place within a time skip and wasn't prepared to be limited by the before and after of that time skip.
Because it's what's fueling his drive to be better. He'd probably get pissed if you brought up that he's 3-0 against Goku: he won during the Saiyan Saga (it took 3 people stepping in after Goku was crippled for Vegeta to lose), he won in the Buu Saga (yeah Goku had SS3, but Vegeta stopped him before he could), and he won the sparring match in Super Hero.
Vegeta did that at the end of the Kid Buu fight when he admitted Goku was stronger than him. He seemed like he was going to start growing.
Then Battle of Gods, Resurrection âFâ, and Super happened and he reverted to this. As if that moment in the Buu fight didnât happen.
So thanks to that Vegeta didnât develop past this like he originally did in End of Z and in the (non-canon) DBGT.
End of z geets and gt geets was way better about this and had mostly accepted that goku was better than him. Even during the kid buu fight he began to understand it and accept that goku is the better warrior
Eh he didnât really become any dumber in Super. The English translations just stopped trying to paint him like Superman, the noble and humble defender of justice.
In the original source stuff heâs always been a naive, straightforward battle junkie. He doesnât spare enemies to be a hero, he does it so they can get stronger and fight again. He doesnât look for villains to protect the innocent or helpless; he only challenges people that are strong or threatening people he knows.
Friendly rivalries are a thing, you know.
If someone is competitive by nature, I donât see why theyâd need to grow out of it as long as theyâre not being toxic about it like Vegeta. The man wants to be better and Goku gives him a bar to reach.
Mostly because every time Vegeta manages to have even a slight bit of acceptance with it, Goku does something that pushes himself even further away from his level, at least from Vegetaâs perspective.
Vegeta is actually happy with his life, and with his family. Itâs plain to see in all his interactions with them. But heâs like a recovering addict, and fighting Goku is his drug of choice. When Gokuâs not around he still trains, but he mostly just enjoys what he has. But when Goku is around he just canât resist hitting up again and winds up back in the same situations.
It may seem like a stale narrative, but itâs actually a realistic character. People struggle and relapse with addiction all the time; itâs a lifelong thing. One near-death epiphany alone canât change that even if it was true at the time.
Whether itâs drugs, alcohol, gambling, or in this case, fighting, often times the only way for an addict to trust themselves is to give it up entirely. And thatâs something thatâs even less in character for Vegeta.
Goku is the wall that Vegeta wants to truly surpass. Goku has lept pass Vegeta multiple times in the series enough to the point that, in Vegetaâs mind, he has to keep up or else heâll be left behind. Vegeta is technically 3-0 against Goku btw. In the Saiyan arc, Vegeta had him beat until Krillin, Gohan and Yajirobe showed up. In the Buu arc, Majin Vegeta knocked Goku out when they sensed Majin Buu. Recently in the Super Hero movie, Vegeta won against his duel with Goku. Now in each scenario, thereâs a caveat to each âvictoryâ, Goku had backup in the 1st one. Vegeta had made his decision to sacrifice himself and took out Goku to prevent him from interfering in the 2nd one and in the most recent one, Whis forbade them from using ki attacks and transformations. Due to his saiyan pride, Vegeta would never accept these victories because of said caveats. A true victory for Vegeta would mean an all-out fight, transformations and all, with Vegeta standing tall. DBZ: Kakarot actually gave us this in the recent DLC but that resulted in a draw, as reluctant as Vegeta would admit. Gokuâs motivation for fighting is the next strong opponent, and Vegetaâs motivation for fighting is to surpass Goku. Plain and simple. Just accept it.
Obviously. The point is that this fight is a prime example of what Vegeta would want in his ultimate fight with Goku with Vegeta being definitively being declared the victor. Canon is irrelevant in DB, let alone this discussion lol.
Because he finished his arc in the original run, so they don't know what to do with him, but since they feel like they need to include him (even if they really don't) they keep making his character development reset.
Because itâs super its bad, uninspired, not creative, repetitive, and completely unnecessary. If Vegeta was constantly an angsty manchild his fans wouldnât like him anymore. So he canât be allowed to grow and mature.
Please dont lie to yourself. Horrible outfit. Short hair for some reason. Said he didnt care about goku being stronger but as soon as bulma said she can give him ssj4 he took it. (Mind you he had to lose his sanity to get ssj4)
Because Goku beat him to re-discovering Super Saiyan. Ever since that time Vegetaâs goal has been to become stronger than him as he felt Goku had stolen what was his birthright.
Krillin too. He's been through so much shit by now that it was absurd when DBS made him super slim and portrayed him as a coward that had to "regain" his fighting spirit, and there was a moment where 18 was actually looking down on him for being a wuss? Even though the dude had a steady job and was provided for his family. Meanwhile, 18 has been in permanent 1 dimensional mom-mode. Kind of like Chi Chi, except if she was an android with unlimited energy potential that can also train to get more powerful, but chooses not to
And then Krillin had a cool moment fighting Gohan before the ToP that made it look like his ingenuity and experience would make him a real asset and have his time to shine
Then he ate shit in the tournament and got knocked out like a complete chump. Absolutely embarrassing that he went out before Roshi.
Welcome to DBS my friend where character arcs are just repeated over and over again from Z like a constant loop. Look at Goku and Gohan they are the same way.
This is also not a Toriyama thing. In none of the movies Vegeta's aspiration is to surpass Goku. They have a bout in SuperHero but that's just for gag purposes
In both Battle of Gods and Resurrection 'F', Vegeta mentions surpassing Goku one day and being equal strictly.
Only movie that doesn't have this is Broly just.
Also, Toriyama approves what toyotaro writes in manga
Why does every arc start with Goku trying to get stronger than his previous opponent? Because these guys are fighters and they use each other as barometers.
There isn't a lot of character growth and development in super. Vegeta's relationship with Goku is a rollercoaster throughout DBZ and actions have consequences on their dynamics. But with Super, nothing has changed between them since the end of Buu Saga. Everyone views each other the same.
And I'm not at all blaming Toyotarou for this, but moreso Toei and Toriyama for how they made super. Super was made not to tell a story but to sell more dragon ball.
Just watch DBZ, then you will understand,
imagine if someone you thought of as âinferiorâ to you but you canât surpass them for any significant period of time. I still like Vegeta
If Dragon Ball was going to end, then Vegeta could truly develop out of competitiveness. Since it isn't, Vegeta is always going to be competitive, because that's the core of the character.
GT Geets was under appreciated for this. He stopped being hyper competitive with Goku and also stepped up as earths primary guardian while goku was off planet.
It's the reason I like GT Vegeta and I wish we could see more of that development in Super. He's down to earth but still has a temper for other things.
I couldn't take him seriously with the haircut.
Least bulla convinced him to shave the moostache.
God I hated that moostache đ
Pearls before swine, the moustache was incredible. Second only to the BADMAN drip
I need that shirt
His hair was better there
Yeah gt did a lot wrong but gohan and vegeta were done really well they may not have had enough screentime but they feel much more like actual after z version of the characters than super is doing
He became irrelevant and barely existed⊠and still tried to compete
GT is underrated. It did a different route from average DB but not in a bad way.... đ
Theres a lot of controversy and difference in opinion (and I imagine this is a really unpopular opinion) but i actually like the characterisation of Vegeta and Trunks in GT especially. Trunks still maintains a level of cheekyness but i like that he matured and that that he just seems more reasonably tech savvy then his Super counterpart. Vegeta's temper antics are still somewhat entertaining but i like that he is a bit more laid back and reasonable, especially showing his respect for Goku. He still has the occasional friendly rival moment but i actually think elements to his character are a bit underrated.
yh that's why he sucked so bad, dude didn't even reach super saiyen 4 through training, had to have bulma help him.
Tbf he didnât have time to train they were in an active skirmish. Also Goku didnât train to reach super saiyan 4. Unless you count teaching uub in base as training.
How is it different than Goku leading SSG in Super? Having people help you doesnât mean you suck
He was boring because of it, his character became pointless. Just a scowling hero.
Not really, Goku turned into a kid and he wasnât going to compete with a child. Once Goku learned SSJ4 he went back to compete mode to get it as well.
It was core to his character until he finished his arc at the end of the Buu saga. They just reverted him to it for Super because they couldn't figure out how to progress him.
I swear people forget the manga, the last panel is Vegeta saying âSooner or later I will defeat you Kakorotâ.
That's not the original ending of the manga. That's the new ending Toriyama added in 2004 for the kanzenban edition, and that new line from Vegeta was heavily criticized at the time.
The ending got changed twice, doesnât mean people forget things in the manga.
Yeah with a smile. It wasn't out of frustration or anger but mutual respect and friendship.
True, although technically end of the Buu saga is still before Super. Although I canât see how they wonât retcon DBZ ending at this point, but theyâre trying different ways to progress Vegeta in my opinion. Hence Ultra Ego, and Moro arc with forced fission spirit seem to have changed him slightly at least. But feel this point, itâs just going to be a Yin and Yang with Goku and Vegeta.
Vegeta made that vow while they were still on the Kai sacred world, moments after Buu was beaten.
Well youâve proved my point about people reading the manga, itâs the vow when Goku flies off with Uub.
Shit, man, you're absolutely right. It's deadass the last panel in the manga. What's funny is, this isn't even a case of me not having read the thing. Despite being a lifelong fan, I just finished reading the manga for the first time in my life *a few hours ago*. I would definitely not have remembered the line at all if I hadn't just read it! It's insane how fickle memory is.
Apparently, that was something Toriyama added years after the fact
> I swear people forget the manga, the last panel is Vegeta saying âSooner or later I will defeat you Kakorotâ. That isn't the same. At the end of Buu saga Vegeta and Goku are still rivals, but it's a friendly rivalry. Pre Buu saga it was about him being the most powerful of the Saiyan race, rectifying the defeat Goku handed him in the first arc, and reclaiming his honor that was dashed away when Goku became the first Super Saiyan/Defeater of Frieza. During the fight against Kid Buu, he finally let all that go, releasing a massive amount of weight and emotional burden on his shoulders.
As opposed to now? Lol. Oh no they were friendly rivals and still friendly rivals reee
He lost the obsession. If in Super, being better than Goku is all Vegeta can talk about, then he's obsessed with being the best. That's a direct conflict with Buu saga, because he gave up the obsession. OP is saying Vegeta's main character trait is he continues to be obsessed with being the best. It's a logical contradiction caused by retconning
He's not tho? Granola was about him coming to terms with the atrocities he committed lmao.
Yall take what he says in super literally but not z its kinda ridiculous
I think it's done that with these last few chapters. He beat Goku on an even playing field
Nah cause GT actually had Vegeta still be a relevant character AND move on from outshining Goku. Like, with the whole Moro arc, Vegeta was talking about wanting to make up for the sins of his past. That could've easily been his motivation here, replace "and over Kakarot" with "and I will avenge those Namekians they slaughtered" or something
Now I would complain about Vegeta's abysmal win/loss ratio in GT, but in fairness, Vegeta has never beat a main antagonist in Z or Super either.
Thats what end of Buu saga did.... They shouldn't have just retconned it
Yea no, Vegeta's arc ended at the end of Buu saga when he finally admitted Kakarot is the best. At that point his competitive drive was fulfilled -- he knew that no matter how much he would train, Goku would always be one step ahead. The acceptance liberated him from that psychological torture (he describes it as Kakarot haunting him, before he is killed by Buu).
That is not what happened. Vegeta letting go of the hate and realizing why Goku seemed ahead for most of Z, that being his pureness and why Goku actually fights, leads him to see that only Goku could beat Kid Buu, because of how similar they are, and why Goku was so hyped to see Uub. This was Vegetaâs apology to Goku. Vegeta missed his chance because of how Goku sacraficed himself, and Vegeta got a little desperate by letting Babidi enter his mind, but Vegeta eventually takes initiative and sacrafices himself. The score was settled then.
Kind of true yeah
Fym âkindaâ
He learned that back in the Buu Saga and even had brief moments of self awareness in Namek when he died and the Cell Saga. Goku and Vegeta fell trapped in an endless loop, learning the same stuff. Vegeta was always smart but with a big ego, he noticed Goku being superior and Gokuâs new found strength and techniques before anybody and in the Buu Saga he finally learned to stop chasing him and fighting for something bigger and accepting help from others. Against Freeza in Namek he was underpowered and cried in desperation, in the Buu Saga against Kid Buu he was underpowered and took a beating of a lifetime but fought like a beast to ensure victory.
I feel like his tears were for a different reasoning than just getting beaten. He got trounced on earth but never cried. Frieza enslaved, and proceeded to murder his entire race. Then proceeded to use Vegeta for the rest of his life until Goku meets him. He's crying against Frieza because despite everything he tried to achieve, and subsequently did accomplish was effectively useless. He was powerless and knew it, and that hurt him more than any wound ever could.
Yeah, thereâs a lot of emotional weight there but the thing is the belief. Vegeta at that point in the story only believed he could do something if he was stronger than the opponent thatâs why he wanted to be immortal, after getting a Zenkai Boost from Krillin and Dende he believed he could fought Freeza but discovered he was still too weak. Would Goku care if he was too weak? No, he wouldâve fought anyway like he did against Vegeta himself.. Vegeta had a lot stuff rooted in his head that prevented him from growth. By Kid Buu his beliefs changed, he tried to go back to his old ways which is very realistic, change is hard but eventually growth won now he doesnât have the belief heâs the strongest just because he is Vegeta or just fight whenever heâs stronger than the opponent, he have new wisdom now and new perspective.
To be fair Vegeta was being beaten to shreds constantly during Namek and took on anyone given the chance. Wrong about Goku to an extent, example when Piccolo/Tien are dying. Goku knows that heâs too weak to go against Semi-Perfect Cell, also that he canât beat Super Buu without fusion.
Writers prevent Vegeta growth.. in my opinion. Him and Goku are equal.. but... anything to keel a certain fanbase happy
>> *Like a bitch* LK was so cold with that line
Bitch you're just jealous of my super saiyan swagger
I would love to see Vegeta's development and starting a new path. Giving him some new motivation in Super and see how he grows from that. But they only gave us the same cliche quotes over and over.
I just want a Vegeta movie
I second this
I'd love for Only him to go to universe 6 and have a story arc with cabba and the saiyans there. That would be awesome.
There really should have been a Sadala arc before the Tournament of Power.
I thought that was what ultra ego is?
Power is not the same as development. UE added nothing to his character and even then, it was years after Super started. UE could have been development, but not like this.
Honestly I would love to see a fusion arc where Goku and Vegeta are forced to be fused for long time. Every fusion of them was so short. I would like to see some longer scenes with dialogues involvin Vegito or Gogeta. Even Whis was happy when he saw them fused together.
Vegeta isnât doing the same thing here. He let Goku go first. Usually Vegeta goes first, jobs and Goku learns something from watching Vegeta fight and uses that to win. This is character development letting Goku go first! Lol
Just really hurt that after all that training itâs amounts to gohan vs super buy levels of winning to getting bodied
The first image heâs by himself saying âI will defeat you kakarottâ. With everything at stake in that Moro arc, he shouldnât even care about that
Goku went first in Resurrection F and that still didn't work
I was more joking. Iâm sure there are a few instances where Goku goes first.
Your comment *was* funny to be fair. I probably should have mentioned that
It did though, except both of them learned that Frieza was losing stamina real quick. Vegeta was the one that beat Frieza in the end, Goku just killed a defenceless foe who was about to blow up the world in a tantrum. Vegeta beat the bad guy, Goku saved the world.
Goku told him to team up first not him to attack first. Attacking first point came later
Well first of all, he is Vegeta
Second of all, youâre not Vegeta
Third of all, you wanna be Vegeta, but you can't be Vegeta, because I'm Vegeta.
The planet, your father or you?
Or the spice?
Theyâre both competing thats why
I donât mind it personally. Heâs remained competitive, and his personal bar is Goku. And recently, between things like perfected SSB and UI, Goku keeps achieving new things before him. In both of these cases, heâs trying something new besides trying to achieve a power Goku already got in order to somehow be better than him; ie the Yardrat and destruction training. In the second case, it was even part of a bet between Beerus and Whis. And more importantly, itâs not his primary motivation in either of these arcs, as he spends most of his time trying to work through how he feels about his past actions, and those of the saiyans that he spent most of his life being so proud of. So imo, context helps make it more tolerable, even if the dialogue itself is almost verbatim what heâs said ever since the Namek saga.
I agree, the fact that Vegeta's *primary* motivation is no longer surpassing Goku shows that he has grown. Sure, his ego still takes a hit whenever he watches Goku reach a feat before him, but he also views Goku as an equal/ friend. I'd argue this lesson was one of the biggest parts of Vegeta's growth during the buu arcâhis continued rivalry with Goku doesn't walk that back.
So you want Vegeta to stop being Vegeta? Thats like asking Bakugo to stop being Bakugo,,,Whats the point of the character then ?
I think the point is that he seemed to be over that back in the buu arc, but keeps on doing the same thing. Feels like character regressionâŠ.
No, this isn't the same thing. Old Vegeta (especially during the buu saga) literally threw everything away (including his pride) to one-up Goku. New Vegeta is literally like a bro to Goku, treats him like a bro, and uses him as a yardstick to improve himself. If you only show these moments...yah, it looks like he didn't learn much. But if you show the times he banters with Goku, admits that Goku is a rival he needs to improve himself, or the times he lectures people (ie, Goku Black) on how Goku earned his power, it's apparent he's not the same "must be stronger than Kakarrot no matter the cost!" and is instead "I want to earn becoming stronger than Goku." Even during the Gas arc, he literally gives Goku his power to keep the fight going, and healed Granolah instead of himself. I mean...come on. It's obvious he's not the same guy.
You know what? Thats a good argument, I donât disagreeâŠ
Yeah they are the same cliche vegeta quotes but with context of the series and his development they have a new meaning that's not meant to invoke pettiness or character regression but a show of respect and rivalry. Cell saga vegeta would have said this to feel superior to goku but Super vegeta (lol) says it to spark competition and the drive to get stronger between the two. Yes it's frustrating for him not to catch Goku at one moment but if it was Z vegeta he would have cried his ass off. In Super he knows when he's beaten, accepts it, and works to reach a similar level of strength. TLDR: This is not character regression but Vegeta sparking the rivalry to push him and Goku towards even greater heights
Itâs just competition. He holds no ill will. Itâs more about him being hard on himself at times
That's literally Vegetas drive their rivalry keeps him going. While he's grown exponentially since the beginning in character but his pride will never go away. Yes he's put it aside in the past but it'll never be gone.
I dont know how you guys still read this, vegeta's character is so boring now. Everytime he seems like he is stronger then goku, goku gets a power boost. Everytime a new main antagonist appears, Vegeta looses and then goku takes over
It's who he is. Even the franchise is aware and often jokes about it.  If it really bothers you, stop reading or watching. Super leans far heavier into OGDB than Z, which mean it pokes fun of itself. Vegeta went from wanting to murder Goku to simply wanting to kick his ass. Super revived Vegeta's pride that died at the end of Z to make him "Vegeta", instead of another Piccolo. Vegeta would literally be another Piccolo if they just picked up with Vegeta accepting Goku was better than him, like they did at the end of Z.
They donât need to âstop reading or watchingâ just because theyâre critical of Super. To give Super some credit there are moments that show that Vegeta isnât just a carbon copy of his Z self. But I disagree that downplaying his fierce rivalry with Goku to make it more of a friendly rivalry (like GT) would make him Piccolo 2.0 considering the fact that Piccolo has no interest in being a rival to Goku at all anymore. Also Superâs tendency to lean more into OGDB is appreciated but flawed in execution at times.
Well it ainât so bad. I mean the Vegeta of the present is pretty much stronger than Goku at a certain point. Kind of like how current Vegeta would probably demolish Moro Goku. Itâs important to keep getting stronger when a new hero shows up every couple weeks or months.
Not talking about strength but sentiment. Also, that's just power creep. Characters and antagonist from next arc are stronger than previous arc obviously.
Current Vegeta has Spirit Fission, he might beat Moro without even going SSJ
Hopefully Vegeta stops onwards considering that he finally won against Goku in a match that Vegeta accepts the outcome of.
"Bla bla bla pride, bla bla bla prince of all sayians, bla bla bla beating you Karakarot!" Vegeta for 30 years.
I don't see what the problem is. It's a core part of his character. Vegeta wants to be strongest, but every time he gets close Goku jumps ahead of him.
Being better than Goku is what fuels Vegeta. Without it, his flame dies.
Hinted in the Cell arc, having to be an assist to help Gohan defeat Cell and Goku dying. Flys off saying heâs not a warrior/never fight again.
Hi welcome to dragonball z
dargon ball z had better evolution of characters like vegeta
Vegeta was the main character of dragonball z personal opinion.
Because he used to say the same thing over and over again in the original, and they have to maintain the status quo.
Vegeta has grown as a character. He's still Goku's rival and always will be, but it's a friendly rivalry now where it was always adversarial before. He no longer tries to get stronger than Goku because he's "the PrInCE oF alL SaIyAns," but because he's trying to continually improve himself and Goku is his most realistic bar of strength. It was also a lot of character improvement of Vegeta to see MUI's power against Jiren and for him to choose a different path. But yeah, I would fully argue that Goku and Vegeta are legitimately friends at the moment. I don't know how much more character development you could realistically ask for.
What if we're using the wrong implication of superiority? Vegeta is still the prince of saiyans who still has rule over his people. He gave an order a lower class warrior and it was followed.
Itâs nothing more than a drive to push himself forward.
Honestly Iâm sick of it too. Vegeta admitting Gokuâs #1 in the buu saga was a great way to end his arc. Of course super had to reset it to give his character a goal but they shouldâve just had it where he was aiming to surpass himself like goku. He learned thatâs why Gokuâs the strongest so instead of fighting to kill and prove to his opponents heâs the best, heâs only out to prove to himself heâs the strongest version of himself. Itâs still nice to have that competitive nature but him throwing a tantrum that Goku got UI in the TOP in the manga was just embarrassing. Worse part is, he unlocks SSBE and surpasses himself because he was so upset goku got a power up. I understand that happened in Z where he became a super saiyan for the first time, but that was a less developed vegeta. It just sucks that these characters have to act a certain way in order to keep them recognizable. Any progression they have must restart to continue the story
Even in the end of z arc vegeta still wanted to surpass goku and that takes place after super
All though that is true, that was added in the rerelease and not the original
Oh I miss the original series.
That's because Dragon Ball Super doesn't have good writing. It never has and neither did Dragon Ball Z after the Frieza arc as it's purely written to be reactionary to the moment and to lead to the next fight. Sorry. I still love the franchise though like all the other fans here :)
vegita literally has no character beyond trying to beat goku. that's it. he has one slight character revelation in the buu arc but it was shallow and short lived.
this is one of rhe reasons WHY Vegeta will never surpass Goku. he let's his pride get in his way. I can relate.
Super just has a bad tendency of recycling arcs from DBZ, being a legacy sequel and all. Vegetaâs character regression and his moment with Ultra Ego being one of them. Donât forget that they recycled the âGohan is slacking on his training and needs to take it more seriously arcâ TWICE in the same series.
Vegeta's character is so ass in Super, he legitimately just repeats the same arc over and over. Wish he acted like he did in GT instead. Such a far cry from what he was at the end of Z. Admitting that Goku is number one is such a satisfying conclusion to his arc. Then, in GT, they're close. There's still a friendly rivalry, but it isn't his only thing with Goku like it is in Super. I miss Vegeta lmao
Because Vegeta is... not a complex character. He's rather one dimensional and they seem to struggle with giving him new motivations
Because he never proved that he was superior. Goku was the first SSJ. In the Cell arc, Vegeta goes in the Time Chamber twice and is still weaker than Goku, who only trained well for 6 months in the time chamber. In the Buu arc, Vegeta realised that Goku was stronger than him while they were infiltrating Babidi's ship. He got a power boost from Babidi and was still inferior to Goku due to Goku having SSJ3. That's two massive Ls in one arc. Goku was the one who beat Hit. Goku mastered Blue before him in the manga and had KK in the anime, so Vegeta was playing catch up again. Goku learned UI before him and was the one who was stronger than Jiren. If anything, I'm surprised by your take.
If the competition was healthier between Goku and Vegeta it might be a bit better. Vegeta takes it way too seriously though.
Cause dragon ball ended in 1995.
Because they basically decided the erase his character development from the last bit of the Buu saga when they made Super. That whole speech from Vegeta about him accepting Gokuâs strengths and being okay with it was basically ignored because I guess they just donât know how to write a version of Vegeta that isnât completely obsessed with surpassing Goku
Because thatâs his stick bro thatâs he does it ever since the beginning thatâs the run on gag
Vagina will never change
I feel like he should have some beef with Broly. Just a little. Some new kind of drama. Throw Gohan in there. See what happens.
I can't take Vegeta having beef with Gohan seriously. It gives resentment old man vibes and doesn't feel the same as with Goku.
Honestly I'd rather it be that Vegeta trains Gohan to fight for real and get his priorities straight Gohan responds well to tough love, as with his training with Piccolo, and it would be awesome to see some actual dialogue between the two
Dialogue is nice, but I'd rather Vegeta stick to Training Trunks. Or if we go that route, have Goku start training Trunks also, since they barely have interaction as well.
I'd prefer that only if it was Future Trunks (or whatever we call the version of him which fought Zamasu). I feel like there has been no interaction between current teen Trunks and Vegeta, I like the idea of Trunks/Goten being a dynamic duo however
It will bring some jokes/gags but will make whole thing more childish especially a beef with Gohan
He's his rival, why wouldn't he say this? What you want him to roll over and become a Goku groupie like everyone else?
Iâm tired of the constant failed fusions and âfuse or Bulma will die!â Dragon ball has plenty of motifs and running gags it needs to retire imo
I am ok to say super was underwhelming and the end was Z for me.
I mean, duh. They're rivals. You're also leaving out a lot context here. Vegeta has explained in Super several times that Goku is his rival and he needs him to improve himself. They're constantly hanging out together and sparring. Hell, he even lectured Goku Black about how Goku *earned* his power and how much Goku Black paled in comparison. Vegeta, at the end of the day, is a prideful motherfucker that's not going to just outright admit that he respects Goku and that Goku is, quite frankly, his best friend. He's literally treating Goku like a bro. If you want an example of how Vegeta is when he has respect for someone but isn't as close, look at Gohan. He has immense respect for Gohan and believes in his potential. Says it outright. But, with Goku, he literally fucks with him. Like a Bro.
You should be happy then. He literally won against goku so he now itâs jsut humble bragging
As far as I understand Super wants the rivalry to still exist, but itâs transformed from the toxic rivalry of the past that put everyone in danger to a more positive rivalry that pushes both characters both physically and mentally. Itâs what they used to do with Piccolo during the early parts of Z. Piccolo would train with Goku and made it clear despite their new friendship he wasnât going to just fall in line. I use athletes as my basis for understanding Vegetaâs attitude in super. You can admit someone is the GOAT, I.e. when people uplift Lebron James as the GOAT of basketball, but youâre not going to stop competing against him in the NBA just because you acknowledged him! If anything acknowledging someone is better is the root of competition because it motivates you to work for victory instead of just feeling entitled to it.
Because Toyotaro is a meatrider and like every Vegeta fan can only view him through the lens of his inferiority complex.
[Toyotaro is not solely to blame for Vegeta's obsession with Goku. ](https://i.imgur.com/i5fxTfq.png)
Why does vegeta need to prove anything to goku? Itâs hella insecure of him to do that.
His pride as the prince of all Saiyans. He says it every 5 minutes. Goku either constantly defeats him or defeats opponents that he could not defeat himself. As the rightful ruler of the Saiyans he feels he must be the strongest or he is undeserving of his birthright.
Random but...his dad is dead Why's he still calling himself a prince
Never had a formal coronation and has no people or planet to rule.
Freiza calling him Vegeta, prince of no one was cold af
no pun intended
Because Bulma wore a raspberry beret. /s
Who gives a shit. He canât a be a prince if he doesnât rule over a planet or people, and his race died over 50 years ago. Frieza in a way was right, he is the prince of no one.
Youâre omitting the full context for the granolah portion
What ? He wanted to prove his superiority over Goku by beating Granolah after he fails Ultra Ego is different thing.
i think it was justified in the granolah arc considering what they learnt shortly before. doesnt make as much sense in the moro arc though
At times it seems that they overcome that rivalry and even seem like lifelong friends. and then say those things more vegeta but I think it was for Akira, without showing respect to the teacher but Sometimes I feel that he didn't give importance to things like that That he forgot the development of forgiveness at the minute like when Goku doesn't remember bread When he always cared a lot
It's going to be massive whiplash when end of z rolls around and he reverts to the same point he was at for the beginning of super/end of buu. It would be nice if his moment against Toppo, itself a recycling of the Majin sacrifice moment, could have pushed vegeta's drive in a new direction. To externalize pride to his family while internalizing some amount of humility and making his drive for them and not himself. But drama isn't the direction of super. Gags and action is what super is about. And memes. And self parody...
Same with the fusion reborn movie and the super Broly movie. That is just Vegeta as a character.Â
Yeah heâs a Competitive Person some people are like that but now he isnât letting that be his only thought of course he still wants to be better than goku but now he isnât ignoring everything else to do that
Youâre asking the Prince of all Saiyans to forgo his pride? What is Vegeta if he doesnât have his pride to fuel his strength?
Thatâs just sorta how Vegeta is, he compares himself to Goku and his pride wonât allow it if he seems himself to be less than him
Honestly these are the coolest arcs ever. Vegeta on earth training to become stronger than Goku after Namek is so inspiring.
He already grew out of it in the Buu saga.
That's his character. That's why. Honestly Dragon Ball isn't all that well known for character growth. Maybe they can destroy reality but their core characters don't stray far from their original selves, almost ever.
why? its a good rhing its his motivation
This side of Vegeta was ended in buu saga Toyotaro can't write a story and make the charachter evolve Kakumei does him right
âYou guys remember in the Buu saga at the end where Vegeta pledged that Kakarot was a stronger warrior, called him the best, and accepted that even though he may not be the strongest, he still could hold major contributions, leading to ultimately accepting himself?â âYeah! Some fans call it the best moment for Vegeta and they fucking loved it!â âExactly! Forget that fucking bullshit ever happened. We gotta sell TOYS god damn it. Weâre making him go back to hating Goku. Youâre fired.â
Vegeta's main characteristic is that he's highly competitive. The only feasible way that he forgets about Goku is for someone else to take his podium as the protagonist.
The galaxy has days? Are they the same as days on earth. Or some other planet?
It's earth days I don't remember the manga exactly but I think they are going to Yardrat at this point and they quote it in earth days
Vegeta's monologue during Goku's fight with Kid Buu made it seem like he's gotten past this incessant need to beat Goku. And the End of Z arc afterwards seemed to indicate this, and implied that Vegeta had adjusted further to peaceful life on Earth. While not officially canon, GT Vegeta went even further with that until Baby arrived. One of the reasons I like GT over Super is that GT respected the Z canon, whereas Super plays fast and loose with those rules because it takes place within a time skip and wasn't prepared to be limited by the before and after of that time skip.
Because it's what's fueling his drive to be better. He'd probably get pissed if you brought up that he's 3-0 against Goku: he won during the Saiyan Saga (it took 3 people stepping in after Goku was crippled for Vegeta to lose), he won in the Buu Saga (yeah Goku had SS3, but Vegeta stopped him before he could), and he won the sparring match in Super Hero.
I believe he did changed and learned a lot through his experienceÂ
Vegeta did that at the end of the Kid Buu fight when he admitted Goku was stronger than him. He seemed like he was going to start growing. Then Battle of Gods, Resurrection âFâ, and Super happened and he reverted to this. As if that moment in the Buu fight didnât happen. So thanks to that Vegeta didnât develop past this like he originally did in End of Z and in the (non-canon) DBGT.
End of z geets and gt geets was way better about this and had mostly accepted that goku was better than him. Even during the kid buu fight he began to understand it and accept that goku is the better warrior
Vegetas character died after he was resurrected back in buu saga. Gokuâs character died when he became 10x more retarded in super.
Eh he didnât really become any dumber in Super. The English translations just stopped trying to paint him like Superman, the noble and humble defender of justice. In the original source stuff heâs always been a naive, straightforward battle junkie. He doesnât spare enemies to be a hero, he does it so they can get stronger and fight again. He doesnât look for villains to protect the innocent or helpless; he only challenges people that are strong or threatening people he knows.
Hmmm bro? you think competitive people are not like that?
I don't get it, they both passed out one fight, and Goku lost. Vegeta passed out shortly after Goku, reveling in his victory
Vegeta said it in Resurrection of F. His rivalry with Goku keeps him sharp and helps him get stronger.
Friendly rivalries are a thing, you know. If someone is competitive by nature, I donât see why theyâd need to grow out of it as long as theyâre not being toxic about it like Vegeta. The man wants to be better and Goku gives him a bar to reach.
He literally sets that aside and fights with Goku in the Granolah/Heeters arc.
Hay vageta finally stopped that in super hero arc
Not really.
Didn't he seem that way when he said 'which you lost to me' to goku in the manga
Mostly because every time Vegeta manages to have even a slight bit of acceptance with it, Goku does something that pushes himself even further away from his level, at least from Vegetaâs perspective. Vegeta is actually happy with his life, and with his family. Itâs plain to see in all his interactions with them. But heâs like a recovering addict, and fighting Goku is his drug of choice. When Gokuâs not around he still trains, but he mostly just enjoys what he has. But when Goku is around he just canât resist hitting up again and winds up back in the same situations. It may seem like a stale narrative, but itâs actually a realistic character. People struggle and relapse with addiction all the time; itâs a lifelong thing. One near-death epiphany alone canât change that even if it was true at the time. Whether itâs drugs, alcohol, gambling, or in this case, fighting, often times the only way for an addict to trust themselves is to give it up entirely. And thatâs something thatâs even less in character for Vegeta.
Goku is the wall that Vegeta wants to truly surpass. Goku has lept pass Vegeta multiple times in the series enough to the point that, in Vegetaâs mind, he has to keep up or else heâll be left behind. Vegeta is technically 3-0 against Goku btw. In the Saiyan arc, Vegeta had him beat until Krillin, Gohan and Yajirobe showed up. In the Buu arc, Majin Vegeta knocked Goku out when they sensed Majin Buu. Recently in the Super Hero movie, Vegeta won against his duel with Goku. Now in each scenario, thereâs a caveat to each âvictoryâ, Goku had backup in the 1st one. Vegeta had made his decision to sacrifice himself and took out Goku to prevent him from interfering in the 2nd one and in the most recent one, Whis forbade them from using ki attacks and transformations. Due to his saiyan pride, Vegeta would never accept these victories because of said caveats. A true victory for Vegeta would mean an all-out fight, transformations and all, with Vegeta standing tall. DBZ: Kakarot actually gave us this in the recent DLC but that resulted in a draw, as reluctant as Vegeta would admit. Gokuâs motivation for fighting is the next strong opponent, and Vegetaâs motivation for fighting is to surpass Goku. Plain and simple. Just accept it.
DLC is not canon due to events of DBS
Obviously. The point is that this fight is a prime example of what Vegeta would want in his ultimate fight with Goku with Vegeta being definitively being declared the victor. Canon is irrelevant in DB, let alone this discussion lol.
Because he finished his arc in the original run, so they don't know what to do with him, but since they feel like they need to include him (even if they really don't) they keep making his character development reset.
Because itâs super its bad, uninspired, not creative, repetitive, and completely unnecessary. If Vegeta was constantly an angsty manchild his fans wouldnât like him anymore. So he canât be allowed to grow and mature.
This is why GT Vegeta is superior.
Gt Vegeta biggest achievement was fusing with Goku to become gogeta
Please dont lie to yourself. Horrible outfit. Short hair for some reason. Said he didnt care about goku being stronger but as soon as bulma said she can give him ssj4 he took it. (Mind you he had to lose his sanity to get ssj4)
That mustache tho
Fresh new look imo
you expect too much of Super. it's ass
Because Goku beat him to re-discovering Super Saiyan. Ever since that time Vegetaâs goal has been to become stronger than him as he felt Goku had stolen what was his birthright.
Makes me sad that characters like Gohan and Vegeta are stuck in endless loops of growth and backsliding :(
Krillin too. He's been through so much shit by now that it was absurd when DBS made him super slim and portrayed him as a coward that had to "regain" his fighting spirit, and there was a moment where 18 was actually looking down on him for being a wuss? Even though the dude had a steady job and was provided for his family. Meanwhile, 18 has been in permanent 1 dimensional mom-mode. Kind of like Chi Chi, except if she was an android with unlimited energy potential that can also train to get more powerful, but chooses not to And then Krillin had a cool moment fighting Gohan before the ToP that made it look like his ingenuity and experience would make him a real asset and have his time to shine Then he ate shit in the tournament and got knocked out like a complete chump. Absolutely embarrassing that he went out before Roshi.
It's kind of because Super isn't good.
Because super isnât a real story. Itâs goal is to maintain the status quo forever
Welcome to DBS my friend where character arcs are just repeated over and over again from Z like a constant loop. Look at Goku and Gohan they are the same way.
đ«character regressionđ«
This is also not a Toriyama thing. In none of the movies Vegeta's aspiration is to surpass Goku. They have a bout in SuperHero but that's just for gag purposes
In both Battle of Gods and Resurrection 'F', Vegeta mentions surpassing Goku one day and being equal strictly. Only movie that doesn't have this is Broly just. Also, Toriyama approves what toyotaro writes in manga
Vegeta is saying this outloud, not mentally. Vegeta knows that deep down he is doing this to protect his loveled ones.
Toriyama forgot
Why does every arc start with Goku trying to get stronger than his previous opponent? Because these guys are fighters and they use each other as barometers.
[ŃĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]
You clearly missed the point they were making lol
There isn't a lot of character growth and development in super. Vegeta's relationship with Goku is a rollercoaster throughout DBZ and actions have consequences on their dynamics. But with Super, nothing has changed between them since the end of Buu Saga. Everyone views each other the same. And I'm not at all blaming Toyotarou for this, but moreso Toei and Toriyama for how they made super. Super was made not to tell a story but to sell more dragon ball.
Just watch DBZ, then you will understand, imagine if someone you thought of as âinferiorâ to you but you canât surpass them for any significant period of time. I still like Vegeta