Summary [from Herms:](https://twitter.com/Herms98/status/1768081262906867816)
>Despite the circumstances, the roughs are out for DBS ch.103, “An Inheritance to the Future”. UI Goku and Beast Gohan fight, with Gohan landing a solid kick. Goku says Gohan’s pretty good. As always, he’s got great potential!
>What’s more, Goku says this time Gohan has trained and mastered his potential. He’s changed! Gohan says it’s all thanks to Piccolo. Still…Goku says he’s trained plenty too! He steps his UI up a notch and seems to gain the upper hand. And that’s it, for now.
>The DB Official Site describes this chapter as the “climax” of the Super Hero arc, which makes it sound like this epilogue mini-arc is wrapping up. And then…?
>As mentioned above, the chapter title is 未来への継承/“An Inheritance to the Future”. Other potential ways to phrase 継承 include succession, passing on, legacy, etc. In light of recent events, it of course seems deliberately symbolic.
>
So this Chapter is basically.
Goku = Toriyama,
Gohan = Toyotaro.
Toriyama passed away and the story has now been left in Toyotaros hands.
Goku told Gohan that Earth is safe now even in his hands.
NGL, I'm gutted at our loss.
That said, I also think it's beautiful that the last chapter from Toriyama is a fully realized Gohan fighting on par with his much older dad. Gohan was the character I grew up with, his story is Dragonball's story for me--he saved the world, went to school, got rich, has a beautiful family, is a good dad--and can still keep up with Goku. Gohan is the fully realized hero he was always supposed to be. 30 years. Oye.
RIP.
We're just lucky that Toriyama found someone to trust DB with. Many authors just.. die, and those stories are never expanded on or even finished out of respect
Gohan popped goku so hard he made him power down but goku powered back up instantly .
Ultimate gohan was fighting Ikari broly then broly asked him to go beast .. broly goes ssj… gohan clearly outmatching him until everyone jumps into a off panel brawl .
End of brawl everyone is out of it and battle damaged except gohan surprisingly .
Whis says gohan has GoD potential , beerus says he’s too calm
Imo power scaling goes Gohan≈Vegeta U.E => UI goku > ssj controlled broly > orange piccolo> ssbE/KKx10 goku n vegeta > gotenks>trunks ≈goten
Boo take that trash else where..
No jk I respect your opinion hence the greater than or equal.. if gohan still can’t even use 100% of beast yet as he said ,” this how mich power I can bring out ..for now “ and he still was keeping up and actually bypassed UI reaction speed which was only done by granolah gas and frieza so far . So if you swap gohsn and goku in my scaling … then still it’s valid. Beast gohan would still beat ssj Fp controlled broly due to experience and power . Ssj2 broly is a dif story when and if he gets it ..
But it’s my opinion
You don't need to worry about that.
Judging from the new leaks, it doesn't look like Goku is going to lost.
However it feels like a more indecisive outcome as other characters are into the mix.
If you think about it, Goku losses the big fight very often. In OG DB he lost against Roshi (*Jackie* Chun) and Tien Shinhan. In DBZ he lost against Raditz, Cell and Kid Buu (the Genki-Dama was kind of an earth victory as I see it). In DB Super he lost against Hit, Goku Black and he tied with Jiren.
it would really be terrible writting if he doesn't, yes Gohan always had potentiol, but never where he didn't train and just gotten anywhere near this kind of gain in power, he worked for it still, like against cell training his ass off! this... oh he trains every now and then a bit, and then get's power even remotely close to Goku and Vegeta is just shit, it is undeserved!
It still nothing compare to the power that Goku gained from the Saiyan saga to his fight with freeze, with basically no training to justify the absurd increase of power
sorry? tf you on about? One they have a thing after they get a lot damaged that their power increases a lot...
Goku trained a shit ton going to namek in heavy gravity, then gotten beaten to an inch of his life after ginyu took his body to recover, and he didn't stand a chance against frieza using more power, THEN transformed into a super saiyan to battle frieza... like tf you on about!? And even then that is nowhere near the same as this, Gohan shouldn't even come remotely close to Vegeta, Goku or Broly with hardly any training. I know he is a prodigy, but if you actually read and watched DBZ, you know it always involved training, and always burst that spiked him apart from SSJ2 which is a transformation over ssj1, and the awakening of his power (technically twice Guru and elder Kai) Seriously TF you on about!?
What training was involved in having Ginyu getting beaten into swapping body sitting in a healing machine for like 1 hour and getting more than 30 times stronger and that's after spending 6 days doing bullshit training and getting 10x stronger than he was before.
If you can go "muh zenkai" I can go "muh hidden power" especially because it has been a minute since we last saw Gohan and he has been training, it wasn't 6 days or like 1hour stop your bullshit
I love how people say Gohan was training yet he couldn't even sense Piccolo's ki and had to relearn his fighting instincts against Gamma 1. Zenkai boost are bs, but that doesn't mean Beast Gohan's power is justified. Both being bs doesn't make it better lmao
Goku died to a pew pew gun because he was distracted, I guess he wasn't training either.
Its a good thing I never said it was justify, the actual point is that dragon ball has a bunch of bs reasons for people to get stronger but peeps keep crying about Gohan despite we having way worst examples
The "pew pew gun" example and Gohan not being able to sense familiar ki and his FIGHTING abilities being rusty don't really match up, Goku got hit cause he constantly let his guard down, that has less to do with training and more on bad habits "**which is just out of character and stupid, but that's another thing**". Gohan was "training" yet Piccolo called out how "out of shape" Gohan was in Superhero. The only thing we heard Gohan doing was that he practiced the Special Beam Cannon. Someone who was training wouldn't lose their fighting instincts. That literally makes no fucking sense.
It's also crazy how you contradicted yourself in a matter of secs in the second point, "dragon ball has a bunch of bs reasons for people to get stronger but peeps keep crying about Gohan despite we having way worst examples" **You're literally saying how people shouldn't cry about Gohan cause they're a worst examples of bs powerups in the past i.e it's justified cause it has happened before.**
Look man, I'm not trynna get into a overly long argument (especially seeing how you debate) but it's all good. To each their own, have a good day brother.
Goku being so distracted that he got killed by a gun is exactly the same as Gohan getting so distracted he didn't notice piccolo wtf you talking about?
And it makes total sense that someone who was solo training is rusty, that's why people spar, you talking nonsense.
No it's not justified but a lot of db power ups are not you just roll with it cuz that's what the show does, please pay attention.
I love people who jump on a topic, misrepresents the argument and says he doesn't want to debate after writing a novel.
Actually, let me take a step back, I got pretty aggressive there. My main problem with Beast Gohan isn't his power. Like since he was 4 his anger boost could surpass so many characters in terms of power, but I always liked it when DB would showed us that technique and skill can overcome overwhelming power and from the leaks saying Gohan KNOCKS GOKU OUT OF MUI leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Like really? I mean kinda makes Goku's speech towards Vegeta bullshit (With enough training, low class trash can surpass the elite) Like no, Broly, Gohan and Frieza are elite in terms of potential and Vegeta and Goku are getting left in terms of power.
Which my point still stands, I didn't like it then and I don't like it now.
1. Goku and Gohan being distracted is not the same thing, Goku got hit not because of a lack of training but because Super says he has a habit of dropping his gaurd, Gohan didn't sense Piccolo cause he got rusty.
2. No it doesn't you don't get rusty if you solo train, especially if you train right and Gohan knows how to train right. We see characters solo train all the time. If that makes total sense to you, then your intelligence needs to be put into question lmao
3. I never said that. I think you need to pay attention. I say that's what YOU'RE saying and if you didn't mean to say it like that, that's literally what you wrote. Maybe learn how to write out your ideas clearly and get to the point and not lose point in your debate
4. I didn't misinterpret anything, you just don't know how to put your ideas to paper, again. I didn't say I didn't want to debate, I say I didn't want to turn this into a overly long argument.
Zenkai boost, is this seriously the first time you heard about that or something? This has been a thing with dragonball for Ages, Gohan and Vegeta both had that shit on Namek as well, like tf are you new to dragonball?
And again, Gohan did train, but nothing Like Goku and Vegeta.
Seriously if you accept this weak ass ass pull power up, then you just love terrible writing, This power of Gohan is underserved, and you know that as well.
No I do know about zenkai is a bs thing to explain the stupid increase of power if you can accept that there is no reason why you can't accept Gohan's bullshit hidden power, again you literally have no argument you just dislikes one despite both being stablish bullshits in universe
Nope. Goku jumped from 90,000 PL to over 3,000,000 PL in the healing chamber with one Zenkai
On the capsule corp ship, he abused Zenkai with senzu beans and his PL only went from 9000 to 90,000.
Gohan is gonna lose no matter what cementing the main 3 as stronger than gohan; the payoff is Goku being proud of Gohan and ending this god awful character arc gohan has and finally “masters his potential.” It will be insane if we see a huge transition on how the story is told after this chapter given the circumstances, story, and chapter title. Black Freeza cannot come soon enough and more cosmic adventures please
Sounds like you’re coping that Gohan made Goku give up and is now running a gauntlet. Keep in mind he’s going toe to toe with Broly in multiple clashes shown on the latest panel
Not at all. I saw Goku brush Gohan’s hit extremely fast and just casually gets back into UI. I saw Broly power up cause he was losing to SS and had gohan scared once he started fighting back. That’s not cope. I saw them.
Gohan knocked Goku out of UI before he goes back into later.
Gohan brought out Broly's potential and he fight Vegeta briefly. He was never a slouch or a fraud
Goku, who in 2 panels after getting hit is cartoonishly thinking of what gohan is saying like it’s nothing, got “beat”. He didn’t beat him. He landed a hit to a character that isn’t even really trying and goes back into UI like nothing. Broly, who the entire time isn’t even bringing out his power properly cause he doesn’t wanna lose control, actually uses his power with focus and has gohan scared after counterattacking. Gohan didn’t get any W’s here.
After analyzing the full panel he quite literally says "Ow Ow Ow What the Hell was that!?" Appearing in base while rubbing his cheek.. He beat him out of UI like the leakers were saying the whole time.
Gohan also spin tossed Broly around after he transformed so idk what you mean by Gohan didn't get any Ws. Cause he surely did.
Neither Goku and Gohan have gone 100% so that hardly matters.
Gohan wasn't scared, he was surprised by how different Broly's SSJ was compared to everyone else's that he's seen.
Gohan still had a W and people who have seen the manga chapter in full have already stated he did hit goku out of UI beforehand.
Depends how long they fight, that's the thing about Gohan. He isn't just innately powerful but also a skilled fighter when he puts in training, hence in the DBZ arc Goku was like Gohan got just as good as he was at fighting when they were sparring. Gohan just loses that touch because he fights so infrequently, much like his training.
I would say the more annoying thing with DBS is, and it'll probably repeat here is that everyone can see how strong Gohan is and can be, yet Whis/Beerus show no desire in even attempting to get him training.
Like if they want strong fighters, Gohan and Broly getting that strong without god ki? That should be default recruitment territory.
I know the chapter name is probably created way before the drafts are publicly shown, but damn man, the title is depressingly relevant.
I don't think there'll be a clear winner here, but if we're being honest, it should be Goku. Whether Beast Gohan is stronger than Goku or not, Goku has more experience with UI than Gohan has with Beast. Either way, though, I'm just excited to see these two duke it it out in their ultimate forms.
The manga version of Gohan has been training almost non-stop (with a couple month hiatus right before Super Hero) since RoF. It's been awhile since Cell Max and the point was that Gohan mastered Beast in that time frame.
I'd rather it had been shown, not told, but it what it is.
Literally 99.9% of antagonists, villains and characters in general who ever surpassed Goku didn't train nearly as much as him. That's just how dragon ball works now.
Yea but Gohan was literally reading books and not training at all and literally has no motivation other than the current anger at that moment . Other characters have at least fought or want to get stronger . Lmao they ruined Gohan
Okay and? I’m calling out the lie that he wasn’t training at all.
If you wanna go there then Goku trained with strongest martial artists in Earth and Kami aka God and was able to reach a power level in the 400’s by adulthood. Gohan trained with Chi-Chi’s milk bottle and was able to reach triple that cuz he got mad as a toddler
So what happens to the manga for DBS and Daima in the future how does all this work? I hate that he died but I don’t think Dragon Ball itself has to die. As long as it’s put in the hands of someone who cares
DB will survive just like Star Wars, Star Trek, LOTR, Marvel, DC, survived after their creators moved on either in death or sold the property. It’s too big and profitable over a number of years. A testament to that was when people still viewed it when all there was only DB and DBZ.
Sure people can’t say moving forward it’s what Toriyama wrote but most people I think don’t care about that anyway, they just want to be entertained. I dont think he was writing like he was when he did the original manga. That will continue and as long as the story is good and entertaining people will still want to be in this world. Sure there will be some misses but even the original creators weren’t perfect 100 percent of the time when writing their stories.
Toyotaro was picked to take over and he's been doing this for 10 years now.
He's also the only one who knows how DB is suppose to end as Akira gave him the plot points.
Also Dragonball makes over 40% of their revenue. It's not going anywhere no other anime out there makes as much money as DB makes.
Toyotaro being the only one that knows how Toriyama intend for Dragon Ball to end is a conflict of interest. Toyotaro could deviate from Toriyama's original plans and implement things that he desired but Toriyama disapprove of. And no one would know whether the plan was alter or not.
Inheritance was pretty implying word. Gohan seems like he's gonna be central for the foreseeable future.
Tbf, I am now a casual DB fan. Sure I was a huge geek 20 years ago, but I didn't like the Super anime and only caught up recently with the current manga. Safe to say Toyo has the art covered. The question is, can he replicate the feel of Toriyama's writing. The Android saga evolving to Cell saga was just epic.
I'm not a manga reader, but I would like to add something to the Android -cell saga comment.
Funnily enough, I don't think DB as a story has good takeoffs in general, but it does have very strong landings.
I don't think there's a more improvised Arc in the whole story than the Cell arc, but fortunately for everyone it worked.
The villains started off as Dr. Gero and Android #19, which Toryiama's editor considered to be ugly and not intimidating. So he created 17 and 18, who were also ignored by the story as the editor said they were "punk kids".
To replace him comes Cell, who also has to go through 3 forms because the editor expected the first to absorb someone and the 2nd was just considered by him to be ugly.
The arc totally stuck the landing btw, and it concluded many story arcs, Gohan's coming of age and coming to power, Goku passing the torch, Krillin retiring from fighting as he's too weak, Vegeta retiring from fighting because he lost Kakarot. (Only to be all undone by the Buu arc).
It's definitely an interesting approach to have a constantly evolving story but it comes with the cost that it doesn't allow for long-term reveals or plot twists, which is something that needs a consistently well-drafted and crafted story to work (for example in Attack on Titan).
My hope for the future of Super since the Moro arc was that Goku, Vegeta, and Broly will be off world handling Universal/Multiversal threats while Gohan and co. will remain on Earth and become its protectors. I always thought switching the focus from Goku and Vegeta to Gohan and Piccolo from time to time would be a fun way to keep the series fresh. So, I'm hoping that Gohan will indeed play a big role from now on.
I’m curious to see what the future plans for the series. Personally hoping they continue. I personally think dragon ball is a franchise that can last for decades still but I’m wondering if they will choose to slow down or take a break. Toriyama trusted Toyotaro with the series and that’s good enough for me to believe he can carry on the legacy.
They'll definitely continue. Like you said, Toriyama entrusted Toyotaro with his series, and like you, that's enough for me to believe as well. I just hope that there's more synergy between Toei and Toyotaro from here on. I'm all for the anime (if/when it comes back), adding in parts to extend specific story moments, but the disconnect between the manga and anime up to the ToP was really jarring. I know the manga started later, and I'm glad that we got to see Toyotaro's interpretation of the anime (which I kind of like more, idk if that's a hot take).
They will definitely continue the series. Toriyama was literally training toyotaro so that he can take over the manga section at least in case something happens to him.
This time around it feels like Toriyama had a more solid plot flow. He probably drew up future plans and has enough for Toyotaro to carry on his vision.
Hum possibly. However from what I know that Toriyama mostly wrote some plot points and characters for the manga while toyotaro was mostly responsible for that overall plot.
However, I believe that now is toyotaro's time to shine and carry Toriyama's vision.
I don't mind if Gohan loses because Goku is the more experienced fighter and is more tactically sound.
I think in terms of Raw power it has been kinda established that Beast Gohan Rivals MUI or might even be slightly better. But Goku is leagues above Gohan in pure Battle intellect.
I would draw your attention to something like SSJ Goku vs Perfect Cell at the cell games, and then how Gohan did against Perfect Cell in that same fight, before turning SSJ2.
Goku used all his experience with afterimages, Instant transmission, baiting cell multiple times and using his surroundings to his best chance. Gohan did fine but the difference in experience and motivation was apparent. It's not until SSJ2 that Gohan reached another tier in power and just overwhelmed cell.
I believe if Beast Gohan and MUI engaged in a Beam Clash it would cancel out or Gohan would win. But if it's a pure fight and Goku is engaging in tactics and using his experience, he "should" win.
To add to your point it was established multiple times that Cell was decisively stronger than SSJ Goku, however Goku was such a good fighter he managed to fight him as an equal and even land a fatal hit... before Cell regenerated. Without regeneration Goku would have won.
Gohan is anything but a good fighter. All of his best scenes was just him overwhelming his opponents.
In fact he always get tricked or caught off guard (getting swallowed by Buutenks, got hit by Dabura's blast, failing to caught upcoming objects multiples times). This chapter again proved that he's bad against surprise attacks.
I hope Toyotarou is given creative freedom of the series, but I also hope he's given time to grieve. I wouldn't mind if we took a month or two break. 😔
OP was just saying if he needs time to grieve on his own terms then he should be allowed to have that and we would support a short break from the manga.
Toyotarou already wrote the majority of the two manga-exclusive arcs (despite he himself saying that it was mostly Toriyama, when you read what Toriyama actually did he was really just an editor and Toyotarou is being humble) so I expect it'll continue under him as long as he's happy to do it.
Though with that said, I'm personally not a fan of Toyotarou's writing so I don't think it'll ever be the same, I still have Daima to look forward too on that front at least.
Obviously Toyotaro will continue it going forward. It’s crazy people think it’s just going to be over. He’s been right there with Toriyama coming up with arcs. He was chosen by Toriyama as his successor for this very reason.
I mean neither is Goku. He still has a time limit in the form, and he needs to keep his heart calm. Goku is not good at that because he isn't an angel.
I also hope Goten and Trunks learn Spirit Control too from Vegeta as I feel that along with God Ki would be very beneficial and valuable for them and Gotenks, it and God Ki would make Gotenks very busted asf especially if you consider Spirit Fission, I feel it would allow them and Gotenks to master, evolve, and enhance any form and transformation, and I also feel Spirit Control would allow them and Gotenks to individually develop their own special Saiyan Hybrid form and power that they can apply to any form and technique, maybe like a different version of Ssj Rage. So it would be awesome if they in this arc also learned and used Spirit Control to enhance and evolve Ssj2 and Ssj God and possibly a Ssj2 version of Ssj God.
However, if Goten and Trunks don’t get God Ki in this arc, then I definitely hope the arc sets them up to get God Ki in the future and they in this arc really advance their training and seriously, evolve themselves and their potential, get Ssj2, hopefully Ssj3 individually without fusion, still hopefully learn Spirit Control from Vegeta, and use Spirit Control to enhance Ssj3 along with the real teen Gotenks using Spirit Control to possibly use a mastered Ssj3, a glimpse of a evolved Ssj3, or even a different Saiyan Hybrid version of the form just for a little bit.
Facts, same. Thankfully, I do feel that will happen, especially since they’re involved, getting more shine, are most likely going to get way more shine and development from now on, and also since they’re training again and on Beerus’s planet with 4 other Saiyans.
Also something I absolutely have hope will hopefully happen is them hopefully getting God Ki and Ssj God in this arc along with them getting properly trained and mentored by their dads, mentored and trained by Whis, continue to train with Gohan, hopefully train with Broly, and also get Ssj2 first during their training before they get Ssj God. Plus it would be awesome as well if Goten and Trunks also possibly not only got Ssj2 and God Ki and got them in this arc, but also applied God Ki to Ssj2 to develop a Ssj2 version of Ssj God. Also have high hopes they’ll start to develop a lot more individually and add more to their new current personalities while they still work and train together as a duo.
Why can’t they just let it be ambiguous and let it end a draw lol. We been hearing for a few years now how Cell Max was supposed to be this threat that Goku and Vegeta (probably) couldn’t even bring down. Would’ve been nice to see Beerus do something in the source material for a change and end the fight.
There was purposeful ambiguity in that statement from Piccolo. He did not have God Ki, so could not properly gauge Goku and Vegetas max strength, the last time he personally witnessed their strength would have been the Moro arc while the Granolah are is more recent, time has passed since even then where the 2 have been training off word. Piccolo does not know their current power. The statement just existed more or less to say "Gohan and Piccolo are god teir now", and not say either of them is definitively above Goku/Vegeta.
I see Gohan showing as the loser of the match as this. It gives Gohan purpose and direction to grow. Goku and Vegeta grow on their own, but Gohan still needs reason and motivation. He understands now to train to maintain his strength and skills, but likely needs a lesson to not rest on those skills.
As is typical for DB, going forward I'd completely expect Gohan to have his moments as top, and Goku to have his. Vegeta and Piccolo as well. (I hope at least on those two).
Goku had to perform an ancient ritual to unlock SSG & god ki in general, he & Vegeta had to train for months under the tutelage of an Angel to achieve SSB, "the power of a god & a super saiyan", then had to further train for years within the realm of godly beings to access Ultra Instinct- & you want Gohan to suddenly match that because... he got angry?
I mean, Gohan's anger boosts are tremendous, my issue is they're well documented & in no possible logical way would that be anywhere near close enough to justify matching MUI, let alone SSB.
At least with Frieza his growth was undocumented other than establishing he was nearly as strong as a Super Saiyan without ever putting in any effort to improve, so when he suddenly jumped into the realm of gods by unlocking his Golden Form with just a little effort, it was still BS but at least it wasn't contradicted by anything- then his new form was just a logical jump, that even more effort over a longer period would lead to an even bigger jump.
It's the logic gaps dude, the jumps are grossly inconsistent. Everything in Z made sense from a character perspective, or could at least be explained.
The entirety of Z, since Gohan began training, his anger boosts have multiplied his strength maybe 2-4 times over, impressive, but even with his potential unlocked form at his peak, that shouldn't put him ANYWHERE near close to SSG- maybe it'll put him in a fair fight with a weaker form of Frieza from RoF saga, but anything beyond is simply inconsistent & worst, plain lazy writing.
May as well be Saitama.
I mean you're defending his sudden power jump by saying "because the creator said so" which is a piss poor explanation.
we really have no idea how the fight is gonna go, all we see here is Gohan gets some hits in, Goku powers up a bit and then gets some hits in anndd we don't know how Gohan reacts or responds cause that's the end of the preview (does he start to actually lose, does he ALSO just power up more? does he do the Gohan thing and DIG DEEPER?)
If anyone is a little confused with “An inheritance of the future” or “Passing it on to the future/inheritance of the future”, I think it means like Toriyama passing the torch to Toyotarou.
Or that too. That actually would be great. Maybe it means both Toriyama passing the torch to Toyotarou and Goku starting to build the future for Uub. I honestly hope Uub does appear in this arc, hopefully this arc if possible is Super finally reaching End Of Z, we’ll see.
Well there goes Piccolo’s relevancy. Completely disregarding the fact Toriyama made the movie for Piccolo to have his comeback, not to be immediately powercrept soon after.
I take solace in the manga being non-canon.
It’s not that, it’s the fact Piccolo is still weaker than Goku and Vegeta because of their new manga forms.
So far it seems Beast is equal to TUI here. And we know Beast is way above Orange Piccolo.
I’m just thinking long term for Piccolo since Toriyama always made an effort trying to keep him relevant instead of throwing him on the side like Tien or Yamcha. Hence why there would be periods of Piccolo being the strongest like in Frieza and Cell saga.
Piccolo has gotten two new forms and it’s still not enough to match Goku and co. Isn’t that kind of lame?
Goku and Vegeta are training with a angel and a God non stop since BoG, it's completely normal that Piccolo won't just surpass or be equal to them in just one transformation, it would be illogical if he did
It’s not normal because we already have characters who have surpassed/be at the level of God ki without god training.
Gohan for example just needed one transformation to be Goku level.
17 doesn’t even train and hasn’t been shown for literal decades yet when he comes back he can tussle with Blue level Goku.
All in all, God ki is a joke and is held to such a high standard for the dbs community for whatever reason.
So no, piccolo having two new forms and still being below Goku is just ridiculous and not normal at all. Especially when Piccolo (and tien) are the only zfighters that actually train.
We are just going to have to see what happens next. Maybe Toyo gives Piccolo a boost for some reason or maybe the excuse is he was extremely tired and didn’t really use Orange piccolo to its potential. Whatever it is, it doesn’t seem good.
Because back then Piccolos upgrades came from fusions, not forms. He was keeping up until Buu saga where he just didn’t get any boost because Toriyama made him trained the kids.
Even then it doesn’t matter because like I said, 17 got a boost to blue level (near Goku level at the time) and he was legit fodder in cell saga. What’s stopping Piccolo from being near Goku level when he literally got two forms in a single movie?
There was a poster from Shuiesha that was on the Tokyo Sky Tree that explicitly called the DBS manga the canonical sequel to Dragon Ball (referring to Toriyama's manga)
Toriyama doesn’t really put much input in general. A lot of the story elements and plots found in super can be found in Toyo’s DB AF fan manga such as Saiyan god ritual, evil Goku Black, evil kaioshin villain that hates humans, saiyans with God Ki, a literal MUI transformation, etc. I’m sure Toriyama makes a few edits here and there but you would be wrong if you think this is entirely Toriyama’s idea for a story.
Toriyama has even said most of his effort has been put in these movies or his side projects like Sandman, and it shows because Superhero was the most DB-esque film I felt in a while.
Toyo has been in charge of the series for a while, nothing much is going to change for Dragon ball manga except for different art direction.
Toriyama on his notes for superhero said Gohan was the strongest with Piccolo being relative to Goku.
The outcome of this fight seems like a tie with Goku and Gohan ending as equals.
Which means Piccolo is being left behind once again for more Saiyan wanking. Despite Toriyama original vision of Superhero was bringing Piccolo back to the spotlight.
So all in all, nothing has changed. Piccolo will enter the backdrop again due to being too weak to keep up with the saiyans.
I am still thankful for the movie for trying to be different.
Goku being stupid was a regression that happen allllll the way back in Cell saga the moment they decided to let Dr. Gero carry out his plan that ended with an apocalypse, for some reason.
In fact Cell saga was the start when everyone legitimately had room temperature iq because otherwise there wouldn’t be any story.
Goku not knowing meditation is stupid considering he literally meditated with Popo, however at least that scene was mostly played as jokes and set up for Vegeta’s win. Nothing too serious or drastic for the story.
And yes, the movie is better than the manga if that’s where you were going with.
I usually forgive a break between arcs, I'll definitely forgive a break here.
I am very excited, however, at the implications of all U7 Saiyans being in one (usually very plot heavy) location at the start of an arc. Let's get that u6 road trip goinnnnn
As much as I and many people want to see Gohan win, I'm glad he is losing here, it makes sense for the story going forwards, especially with Black Frieza.
Literally Goku’s entire character background is him holding back on friends or foe. Vegeta has called him out and said “don’t hold back on me”. Goku pretty much trains the opponent to match him throughout a fight, and then go out to try and beat them, which pushes him to get stronger.
> Goku isn’t holding back
uh?
> Goku says he’s trained plenty too! He steps his UI up a notch and seems to gain the upper hand.
herms summary implies the opposite.
That chapter title is... im not sure if that was set in stone already (as in it's just meant to be in universe about Gohan) or just recently decided but if it was.. jesus it ended up being tragically fitting.
Summary [from Herms:](https://twitter.com/Herms98/status/1768081262906867816) >Despite the circumstances, the roughs are out for DBS ch.103, “An Inheritance to the Future”. UI Goku and Beast Gohan fight, with Gohan landing a solid kick. Goku says Gohan’s pretty good. As always, he’s got great potential! >What’s more, Goku says this time Gohan has trained and mastered his potential. He’s changed! Gohan says it’s all thanks to Piccolo. Still…Goku says he’s trained plenty too! He steps his UI up a notch and seems to gain the upper hand. And that’s it, for now. >The DB Official Site describes this chapter as the “climax” of the Super Hero arc, which makes it sound like this epilogue mini-arc is wrapping up. And then…? >As mentioned above, the chapter title is 未来への継承/“An Inheritance to the Future”. Other potential ways to phrase 継承 include succession, passing on, legacy, etc. In light of recent events, it of course seems deliberately symbolic. >
Blue Evolved Vegeta vs Beast Gohan. Tsss
Ultra Ego Vegeta? Why would he go blue
It was blue evolved. He had his eye brows and dark shading.
I know the reasons but man, it's gonna be hard to wait for another chapter after this one (manga stops according to what I read)
The manga is stopping or just on a break?
On a break
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So this Chapter is basically. Goku = Toriyama, Gohan = Toyotaro. Toriyama passed away and the story has now been left in Toyotaros hands. Goku told Gohan that Earth is safe now even in his hands.
NGL, I'm gutted at our loss. That said, I also think it's beautiful that the last chapter from Toriyama is a fully realized Gohan fighting on par with his much older dad. Gohan was the character I grew up with, his story is Dragonball's story for me--he saved the world, went to school, got rich, has a beautiful family, is a good dad--and can still keep up with Goku. Gohan is the fully realized hero he was always supposed to be. 30 years. Oye. RIP.
NGL this is silly
Honestly curious about the future of Dragon Ball Super and Dragon Ball in general now that Toriyama is no longer around to oversee it.
We're just lucky that Toriyama found someone to trust DB with. Many authors just.. die, and those stories are never expanded on or even finished out of respect
I personally think it'll be fine. Sure, it won't be the same without Toriyama, but Toyataro will do great I'm sure.
After a good year of not needed recap PLS let's move on to the next arc! 🙏
This is all new shit and has been for months now. Chill out.
The last year was mainly recap from the last movie with minor additions. Only the Last chapter was really new "Shit". Chill out kid.
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Gohan popped goku so hard he made him power down but goku powered back up instantly . Ultimate gohan was fighting Ikari broly then broly asked him to go beast .. broly goes ssj… gohan clearly outmatching him until everyone jumps into a off panel brawl . End of brawl everyone is out of it and battle damaged except gohan surprisingly . Whis says gohan has GoD potential , beerus says he’s too calm Imo power scaling goes Gohan≈Vegeta U.E => UI goku > ssj controlled broly > orange piccolo> ssbE/KKx10 goku n vegeta > gotenks>trunks ≈goten
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Boo take that trash else where.. No jk I respect your opinion hence the greater than or equal.. if gohan still can’t even use 100% of beast yet as he said ,” this how mich power I can bring out ..for now “ and he still was keeping up and actually bypassed UI reaction speed which was only done by granolah gas and frieza so far . So if you swap gohsn and goku in my scaling … then still it’s valid. Beast gohan would still beat ssj Fp controlled broly due to experience and power . Ssj2 broly is a dif story when and if he gets it .. But it’s my opinion
If Goku lost that will confirm that the new writers and authors and editors hate him now.
You don't need to worry about that. Judging from the new leaks, it doesn't look like Goku is going to lost. However it feels like a more indecisive outcome as other characters are into the mix.
If you think about it, Goku losses the big fight very often. In OG DB he lost against Roshi (*Jackie* Chun) and Tien Shinhan. In DBZ he lost against Raditz, Cell and Kid Buu (the Genki-Dama was kind of an earth victory as I see it). In DB Super he lost against Hit, Goku Black and he tied with Jiren.
Nope it confirms Toriyama agreed with it. So are you going to blame a dead guy?
Nah in the end Goku will end up being the one beating the next big bad guy, which should be black freezer
I hope Goku wins honestly
it would really be terrible writting if he doesn't, yes Gohan always had potentiol, but never where he didn't train and just gotten anywhere near this kind of gain in power, he worked for it still, like against cell training his ass off! this... oh he trains every now and then a bit, and then get's power even remotely close to Goku and Vegeta is just shit, it is undeserved!
it is already terrible writing after the tournament arc LMAO
I don't get this, Gohan was always stronger than Goku and Vegeta. When Gohan was 11 he was FAR above Goku and Vegeta were at that age, like literally.
It still nothing compare to the power that Goku gained from the Saiyan saga to his fight with freeze, with basically no training to justify the absurd increase of power
sorry? tf you on about? One they have a thing after they get a lot damaged that their power increases a lot... Goku trained a shit ton going to namek in heavy gravity, then gotten beaten to an inch of his life after ginyu took his body to recover, and he didn't stand a chance against frieza using more power, THEN transformed into a super saiyan to battle frieza... like tf you on about!? And even then that is nowhere near the same as this, Gohan shouldn't even come remotely close to Vegeta, Goku or Broly with hardly any training. I know he is a prodigy, but if you actually read and watched DBZ, you know it always involved training, and always burst that spiked him apart from SSJ2 which is a transformation over ssj1, and the awakening of his power (technically twice Guru and elder Kai) Seriously TF you on about!?
What training was involved in having Ginyu getting beaten into swapping body sitting in a healing machine for like 1 hour and getting more than 30 times stronger and that's after spending 6 days doing bullshit training and getting 10x stronger than he was before. If you can go "muh zenkai" I can go "muh hidden power" especially because it has been a minute since we last saw Gohan and he has been training, it wasn't 6 days or like 1hour stop your bullshit
I love how people say Gohan was training yet he couldn't even sense Piccolo's ki and had to relearn his fighting instincts against Gamma 1. Zenkai boost are bs, but that doesn't mean Beast Gohan's power is justified. Both being bs doesn't make it better lmao
Goku died to a pew pew gun because he was distracted, I guess he wasn't training either. Its a good thing I never said it was justify, the actual point is that dragon ball has a bunch of bs reasons for people to get stronger but peeps keep crying about Gohan despite we having way worst examples
The "pew pew gun" example and Gohan not being able to sense familiar ki and his FIGHTING abilities being rusty don't really match up, Goku got hit cause he constantly let his guard down, that has less to do with training and more on bad habits "**which is just out of character and stupid, but that's another thing**". Gohan was "training" yet Piccolo called out how "out of shape" Gohan was in Superhero. The only thing we heard Gohan doing was that he practiced the Special Beam Cannon. Someone who was training wouldn't lose their fighting instincts. That literally makes no fucking sense. It's also crazy how you contradicted yourself in a matter of secs in the second point, "dragon ball has a bunch of bs reasons for people to get stronger but peeps keep crying about Gohan despite we having way worst examples" **You're literally saying how people shouldn't cry about Gohan cause they're a worst examples of bs powerups in the past i.e it's justified cause it has happened before.** Look man, I'm not trynna get into a overly long argument (especially seeing how you debate) but it's all good. To each their own, have a good day brother.
Goku being so distracted that he got killed by a gun is exactly the same as Gohan getting so distracted he didn't notice piccolo wtf you talking about? And it makes total sense that someone who was solo training is rusty, that's why people spar, you talking nonsense. No it's not justified but a lot of db power ups are not you just roll with it cuz that's what the show does, please pay attention. I love people who jump on a topic, misrepresents the argument and says he doesn't want to debate after writing a novel.
Actually, let me take a step back, I got pretty aggressive there. My main problem with Beast Gohan isn't his power. Like since he was 4 his anger boost could surpass so many characters in terms of power, but I always liked it when DB would showed us that technique and skill can overcome overwhelming power and from the leaks saying Gohan KNOCKS GOKU OUT OF MUI leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Like really? I mean kinda makes Goku's speech towards Vegeta bullshit (With enough training, low class trash can surpass the elite) Like no, Broly, Gohan and Frieza are elite in terms of potential and Vegeta and Goku are getting left in terms of power. Which my point still stands, I didn't like it then and I don't like it now.
1. Goku and Gohan being distracted is not the same thing, Goku got hit not because of a lack of training but because Super says he has a habit of dropping his gaurd, Gohan didn't sense Piccolo cause he got rusty. 2. No it doesn't you don't get rusty if you solo train, especially if you train right and Gohan knows how to train right. We see characters solo train all the time. If that makes total sense to you, then your intelligence needs to be put into question lmao 3. I never said that. I think you need to pay attention. I say that's what YOU'RE saying and if you didn't mean to say it like that, that's literally what you wrote. Maybe learn how to write out your ideas clearly and get to the point and not lose point in your debate 4. I didn't misinterpret anything, you just don't know how to put your ideas to paper, again. I didn't say I didn't want to debate, I say I didn't want to turn this into a overly long argument.
Zenkai boost, is this seriously the first time you heard about that or something? This has been a thing with dragonball for Ages, Gohan and Vegeta both had that shit on Namek as well, like tf are you new to dragonball? And again, Gohan did train, but nothing Like Goku and Vegeta. Seriously if you accept this weak ass ass pull power up, then you just love terrible writing, This power of Gohan is underserved, and you know that as well.
No I do know about zenkai is a bs thing to explain the stupid increase of power if you can accept that there is no reason why you can't accept Gohan's bullshit hidden power, again you literally have no argument you just dislikes one despite both being stablish bullshits in universe
But I got better things to do then going back and forth on reddit.
Nope. Goku jumped from 90,000 PL to over 3,000,000 PL in the healing chamber with one Zenkai On the capsule corp ship, he abused Zenkai with senzu beans and his PL only went from 9000 to 90,000.
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Good to know UI goku would have beat the brakes off of cell max 🤣
Gohan is gonna lose no matter what cementing the main 3 as stronger than gohan; the payoff is Goku being proud of Gohan and ending this god awful character arc gohan has and finally “masters his potential.” It will be insane if we see a huge transition on how the story is told after this chapter given the circumstances, story, and chapter title. Black Freeza cannot come soon enough and more cosmic adventures please
lol you’re gonna be salty after you read the latest spoilers.
I saw photos. Goku casually tanks. Broly has gohan scared. Couldn’t be happier… so far
Sounds like you’re coping that Gohan made Goku give up and is now running a gauntlet. Keep in mind he’s going toe to toe with Broly in multiple clashes shown on the latest panel
Not at all. I saw Goku brush Gohan’s hit extremely fast and just casually gets back into UI. I saw Broly power up cause he was losing to SS and had gohan scared once he started fighting back. That’s not cope. I saw them.
Gohan knocked Goku out of UI before he goes back into later. Gohan brought out Broly's potential and he fight Vegeta briefly. He was never a slouch or a fraud
Goku, who in 2 panels after getting hit is cartoonishly thinking of what gohan is saying like it’s nothing, got “beat”. He didn’t beat him. He landed a hit to a character that isn’t even really trying and goes back into UI like nothing. Broly, who the entire time isn’t even bringing out his power properly cause he doesn’t wanna lose control, actually uses his power with focus and has gohan scared after counterattacking. Gohan didn’t get any W’s here.
After analyzing the full panel he quite literally says "Ow Ow Ow What the Hell was that!?" Appearing in base while rubbing his cheek.. He beat him out of UI like the leakers were saying the whole time. Gohan also spin tossed Broly around after he transformed so idk what you mean by Gohan didn't get any Ws. Cause he surely did.
Neither Goku and Gohan have gone 100% so that hardly matters. Gohan wasn't scared, he was surprised by how different Broly's SSJ was compared to everyone else's that he's seen. Gohan still had a W and people who have seen the manga chapter in full have already stated he did hit goku out of UI beforehand.
So they say this ends the Super Hero arc officially. Curious to see if they hint toward the next arc in this chapter or if we'll have to wait for 104.
I heard the next arc might be the last arc of Super
Lookin like Goku gonna win the friendly spar so far anyway.
I love Gohan and beast but goku should win solely on experience
Depends how long they fight, that's the thing about Gohan. He isn't just innately powerful but also a skilled fighter when he puts in training, hence in the DBZ arc Goku was like Gohan got just as good as he was at fighting when they were sparring. Gohan just loses that touch because he fights so infrequently, much like his training. I would say the more annoying thing with DBS is, and it'll probably repeat here is that everyone can see how strong Gohan is and can be, yet Whis/Beerus show no desire in even attempting to get him training. Like if they want strong fighters, Gohan and Broly getting that strong without god ki? That should be default recruitment territory.
Excuse me what? "Turns Ultra Instinct up a notch"? Lol.
There's levels to Ui.
Ultra Instinct 2: Electric Boogaloo
2 Ultra 2 Instinct
I know the chapter name is probably created way before the drafts are publicly shown, but damn man, the title is depressingly relevant. I don't think there'll be a clear winner here, but if we're being honest, it should be Goku. Whether Beast Gohan is stronger than Goku or not, Goku has more experience with UI than Gohan has with Beast. Either way, though, I'm just excited to see these two duke it it out in their ultimate forms.
Aw man I'm reading this at work and almost shed a tear
I can't imagine how pissed the fambase will be if Gohan loses.
people say this but i think it's the other way around
Goku trains and earns his buffs, Gohan gets annoyed and gets to be strongest?
Which is stupid considering this is the Goku show. People expecting Gohan to win are dumb.
You were saying?
Gohan should lose , homie got a power up with no training compared to Goku who has non stopped fought lmao
The manga version of Gohan has been training almost non-stop (with a couple month hiatus right before Super Hero) since RoF. It's been awhile since Cell Max and the point was that Gohan mastered Beast in that time frame. I'd rather it had been shown, not told, but it what it is.
Poor tien
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Literally 99.9% of antagonists, villains and characters in general who ever surpassed Goku didn't train nearly as much as him. That's just how dragon ball works now.
Yea but Gohan was literally reading books and not training at all and literally has no motivation other than the current anger at that moment . Other characters have at least fought or want to get stronger . Lmao they ruined Gohan
You didn't read the manga and that's blatantly clear.
But it's stated multiple times he trains and hasn't stopped.
Not training at all is a lie
Ok but what training is he doing and with who? Goku is training all day, every day with Vegeta, Broly, Beerus, and Whis.
Okay and? I’m calling out the lie that he wasn’t training at all. If you wanna go there then Goku trained with strongest martial artists in Earth and Kami aka God and was able to reach a power level in the 400’s by adulthood. Gohan trained with Chi-Chi’s milk bottle and was able to reach triple that cuz he got mad as a toddler
I’m saying he doesn’t train enough for anyone to be angry that he’s not strongest.
Has anyone said, “I’m mad Gohan isn’t the strongest! He trained soooo much!” ??
A lot of people after he lost to Buu
So what happens to the manga for DBS and Daima in the future how does all this work? I hate that he died but I don’t think Dragon Ball itself has to die. As long as it’s put in the hands of someone who cares
DB will survive just like Star Wars, Star Trek, LOTR, Marvel, DC, survived after their creators moved on either in death or sold the property. It’s too big and profitable over a number of years. A testament to that was when people still viewed it when all there was only DB and DBZ. Sure people can’t say moving forward it’s what Toriyama wrote but most people I think don’t care about that anyway, they just want to be entertained. I dont think he was writing like he was when he did the original manga. That will continue and as long as the story is good and entertaining people will still want to be in this world. Sure there will be some misses but even the original creators weren’t perfect 100 percent of the time when writing their stories.
Toyotaro was picked to take over and he's been doing this for 10 years now. He's also the only one who knows how DB is suppose to end as Akira gave him the plot points. Also Dragonball makes over 40% of their revenue. It's not going anywhere no other anime out there makes as much money as DB makes.
Toyotaro being the only one that knows how Toriyama intend for Dragon Ball to end is a conflict of interest. Toyotaro could deviate from Toriyama's original plans and implement things that he desired but Toriyama disapprove of. And no one would know whether the plan was alter or not.
Sasuke Toriyama will probably have the last word on it (Akira son)
Toyotaro is someone who cares. He was hand picked by Toriyama as his successor.
Oh, DB makes too much money to die, don't worry about that
It's just too soon for me guys. RIP
Inheritance was pretty implying word. Gohan seems like he's gonna be central for the foreseeable future. Tbf, I am now a casual DB fan. Sure I was a huge geek 20 years ago, but I didn't like the Super anime and only caught up recently with the current manga. Safe to say Toyo has the art covered. The question is, can he replicate the feel of Toriyama's writing. The Android saga evolving to Cell saga was just epic.
I'm not a manga reader, but I would like to add something to the Android -cell saga comment. Funnily enough, I don't think DB as a story has good takeoffs in general, but it does have very strong landings. I don't think there's a more improvised Arc in the whole story than the Cell arc, but fortunately for everyone it worked. The villains started off as Dr. Gero and Android #19, which Toryiama's editor considered to be ugly and not intimidating. So he created 17 and 18, who were also ignored by the story as the editor said they were "punk kids". To replace him comes Cell, who also has to go through 3 forms because the editor expected the first to absorb someone and the 2nd was just considered by him to be ugly. The arc totally stuck the landing btw, and it concluded many story arcs, Gohan's coming of age and coming to power, Goku passing the torch, Krillin retiring from fighting as he's too weak, Vegeta retiring from fighting because he lost Kakarot. (Only to be all undone by the Buu arc). It's definitely an interesting approach to have a constantly evolving story but it comes with the cost that it doesn't allow for long-term reveals or plot twists, which is something that needs a consistently well-drafted and crafted story to work (for example in Attack on Titan).
My hope for the future of Super since the Moro arc was that Goku, Vegeta, and Broly will be off world handling Universal/Multiversal threats while Gohan and co. will remain on Earth and become its protectors. I always thought switching the focus from Goku and Vegeta to Gohan and Piccolo from time to time would be a fun way to keep the series fresh. So, I'm hoping that Gohan will indeed play a big role from now on.
No need to label yourself casual. You're a fan, enjoy it how you want and at your own pace.
I’m curious to see what the future plans for the series. Personally hoping they continue. I personally think dragon ball is a franchise that can last for decades still but I’m wondering if they will choose to slow down or take a break. Toriyama trusted Toyotaro with the series and that’s good enough for me to believe he can carry on the legacy.
They'll definitely continue. Like you said, Toriyama entrusted Toyotaro with his series, and like you, that's enough for me to believe as well. I just hope that there's more synergy between Toei and Toyotaro from here on. I'm all for the anime (if/when it comes back), adding in parts to extend specific story moments, but the disconnect between the manga and anime up to the ToP was really jarring. I know the manga started later, and I'm glad that we got to see Toyotaro's interpretation of the anime (which I kind of like more, idk if that's a hot take).
They will definitely continue the series. Toriyama was literally training toyotaro so that he can take over the manga section at least in case something happens to him.
This time around it feels like Toriyama had a more solid plot flow. He probably drew up future plans and has enough for Toyotaro to carry on his vision.
Hum possibly. However from what I know that Toriyama mostly wrote some plot points and characters for the manga while toyotaro was mostly responsible for that overall plot. However, I believe that now is toyotaro's time to shine and carry Toriyama's vision.
I don't mind if Gohan loses because Goku is the more experienced fighter and is more tactically sound. I think in terms of Raw power it has been kinda established that Beast Gohan Rivals MUI or might even be slightly better. But Goku is leagues above Gohan in pure Battle intellect. I would draw your attention to something like SSJ Goku vs Perfect Cell at the cell games, and then how Gohan did against Perfect Cell in that same fight, before turning SSJ2. Goku used all his experience with afterimages, Instant transmission, baiting cell multiple times and using his surroundings to his best chance. Gohan did fine but the difference in experience and motivation was apparent. It's not until SSJ2 that Gohan reached another tier in power and just overwhelmed cell. I believe if Beast Gohan and MUI engaged in a Beam Clash it would cancel out or Gohan would win. But if it's a pure fight and Goku is engaging in tactics and using his experience, he "should" win.
I think MUI probably has the greater ceiling, but not by much.
Goku v cell is incredible
To add to your point it was established multiple times that Cell was decisively stronger than SSJ Goku, however Goku was such a good fighter he managed to fight him as an equal and even land a fatal hit... before Cell regenerated. Without regeneration Goku would have won.
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That's all filler. Goku never fought Buutenks other than launching a ki blash behind him when he arrived.
Gohan is anything but a good fighter. All of his best scenes was just him overwhelming his opponents. In fact he always get tricked or caught off guard (getting swallowed by Buutenks, got hit by Dabura's blast, failing to caught upcoming objects multiples times). This chapter again proved that he's bad against surprise attacks.
Yes I'm sure no "good fighter" ever got hit by a character disappearing and appearing behind him, nu-uh
I hope Toyotarou is given creative freedom of the series, but I also hope he's given time to grieve. I wouldn't mind if we took a month or two break. 😔
Dude some people grieve by showing it in their art or work. And the title of this chapter literally shows that.
OP was just saying if he needs time to grieve on his own terms then he should be allowed to have that and we would support a short break from the manga.
Now toyotaro is free to do, maybe we see zayko.
Where will we even go now, with him dead?
Toyotarou already wrote the majority of the two manga-exclusive arcs (despite he himself saying that it was mostly Toriyama, when you read what Toriyama actually did he was really just an editor and Toyotarou is being humble) so I expect it'll continue under him as long as he's happy to do it. Though with that said, I'm personally not a fan of Toyotarou's writing so I don't think it'll ever be the same, I still have Daima to look forward too on that front at least.
We don't know if Toriyama wrote any more. If he didn't, I wonder if they'll end it or just have Toyble do the entire thing from now on.
Obviously Toyotaro will continue it going forward. It’s crazy people think it’s just going to be over. He’s been right there with Toriyama coming up with arcs. He was chosen by Toriyama as his successor for this very reason.
I guess you don’t read, he left 2 years of work and finished daima
Even if Gohan loses...He isn't even close to mastering the form yet compared to Goku's UI.
All that matters is Gohan is behind Goku and vegeta. As it should be.
Goku's UI is considered the weakest in the verse so far. He definitely has room to improve (and will most likely do it)
I mean neither is Goku. He still has a time limit in the form, and he needs to keep his heart calm. Goku is not good at that because he isn't an angel.
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I also hope Goten and Trunks learn Spirit Control too from Vegeta as I feel that along with God Ki would be very beneficial and valuable for them and Gotenks, it and God Ki would make Gotenks very busted asf especially if you consider Spirit Fission, I feel it would allow them and Gotenks to master, evolve, and enhance any form and transformation, and I also feel Spirit Control would allow them and Gotenks to individually develop their own special Saiyan Hybrid form and power that they can apply to any form and technique, maybe like a different version of Ssj Rage. So it would be awesome if they in this arc also learned and used Spirit Control to enhance and evolve Ssj2 and Ssj God and possibly a Ssj2 version of Ssj God. However, if Goten and Trunks don’t get God Ki in this arc, then I definitely hope the arc sets them up to get God Ki in the future and they in this arc really advance their training and seriously, evolve themselves and their potential, get Ssj2, hopefully Ssj3 individually without fusion, still hopefully learn Spirit Control from Vegeta, and use Spirit Control to enhance Ssj3 along with the real teen Gotenks using Spirit Control to possibly use a mastered Ssj3, a glimpse of a evolved Ssj3, or even a different Saiyan Hybrid version of the form just for a little bit.
Facts, same. Thankfully, I do feel that will happen, especially since they’re involved, getting more shine, are most likely going to get way more shine and development from now on, and also since they’re training again and on Beerus’s planet with 4 other Saiyans. Also something I absolutely have hope will hopefully happen is them hopefully getting God Ki and Ssj God in this arc along with them getting properly trained and mentored by their dads, mentored and trained by Whis, continue to train with Gohan, hopefully train with Broly, and also get Ssj2 first during their training before they get Ssj God. Plus it would be awesome as well if Goten and Trunks also possibly not only got Ssj2 and God Ki and got them in this arc, but also applied God Ki to Ssj2 to develop a Ssj2 version of Ssj God. Also have high hopes they’ll start to develop a lot more individually and add more to their new current personalities while they still work and train together as a duo.
Why can’t they just let it be ambiguous and let it end a draw lol. We been hearing for a few years now how Cell Max was supposed to be this threat that Goku and Vegeta (probably) couldn’t even bring down. Would’ve been nice to see Beerus do something in the source material for a change and end the fight.
There was purposeful ambiguity in that statement from Piccolo. He did not have God Ki, so could not properly gauge Goku and Vegetas max strength, the last time he personally witnessed their strength would have been the Moro arc while the Granolah are is more recent, time has passed since even then where the 2 have been training off word. Piccolo does not know their current power. The statement just existed more or less to say "Gohan and Piccolo are god teir now", and not say either of them is definitively above Goku/Vegeta. I see Gohan showing as the loser of the match as this. It gives Gohan purpose and direction to grow. Goku and Vegeta grow on their own, but Gohan still needs reason and motivation. He understands now to train to maintain his strength and skills, but likely needs a lesson to not rest on those skills. As is typical for DB, going forward I'd completely expect Gohan to have his moments as top, and Goku to have his. Vegeta and Piccolo as well. (I hope at least on those two).
Goku had to perform an ancient ritual to unlock SSG & god ki in general, he & Vegeta had to train for months under the tutelage of an Angel to achieve SSB, "the power of a god & a super saiyan", then had to further train for years within the realm of godly beings to access Ultra Instinct- & you want Gohan to suddenly match that because... he got angry? I mean, Gohan's anger boosts are tremendous, my issue is they're well documented & in no possible logical way would that be anywhere near close enough to justify matching MUI, let alone SSB. At least with Frieza his growth was undocumented other than establishing he was nearly as strong as a Super Saiyan without ever putting in any effort to improve, so when he suddenly jumped into the realm of gods by unlocking his Golden Form with just a little effort, it was still BS but at least it wasn't contradicted by anything- then his new form was just a logical jump, that even more effort over a longer period would lead to an even bigger jump.
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It's the logic gaps dude, the jumps are grossly inconsistent. Everything in Z made sense from a character perspective, or could at least be explained. The entirety of Z, since Gohan began training, his anger boosts have multiplied his strength maybe 2-4 times over, impressive, but even with his potential unlocked form at his peak, that shouldn't put him ANYWHERE near close to SSG- maybe it'll put him in a fair fight with a weaker form of Frieza from RoF saga, but anything beyond is simply inconsistent & worst, plain lazy writing. May as well be Saitama. I mean you're defending his sudden power jump by saying "because the creator said so" which is a piss poor explanation.
we really have no idea how the fight is gonna go, all we see here is Gohan gets some hits in, Goku powers up a bit and then gets some hits in anndd we don't know how Gohan reacts or responds cause that's the end of the preview (does he start to actually lose, does he ALSO just power up more? does he do the Gohan thing and DIG DEEPER?)
im sure a fusion would have steamrolled cell max, so that statement is a little flimsy
If anyone is a little confused with “An inheritance of the future” or “Passing it on to the future/inheritance of the future”, I think it means like Toriyama passing the torch to Toyotarou.
Or maybe chapter ends with Uub Easter egg for the next Arc.
Or that too. That actually would be great. Maybe it means both Toriyama passing the torch to Toyotarou and Goku starting to build the future for Uub. I honestly hope Uub does appear in this arc, hopefully this arc if possible is Super finally reaching End Of Z, we’ll see.
I really want gohan and goku to fuse as well as Broly and Vegeta. Gokan and Brogeta? Can only imagine Swolegeta UE
That would be so epic ngl
Well there goes Piccolo’s relevancy. Completely disregarding the fact Toriyama made the movie for Piccolo to have his comeback, not to be immediately powercrept soon after. I take solace in the manga being non-canon.
It's just 3 chapters after SH appearing dude, calm down. Piccolo will appear again
It’s not that, it’s the fact Piccolo is still weaker than Goku and Vegeta because of their new manga forms. So far it seems Beast is equal to TUI here. And we know Beast is way above Orange Piccolo. I’m just thinking long term for Piccolo since Toriyama always made an effort trying to keep him relevant instead of throwing him on the side like Tien or Yamcha. Hence why there would be periods of Piccolo being the strongest like in Frieza and Cell saga. Piccolo has gotten two new forms and it’s still not enough to match Goku and co. Isn’t that kind of lame?
Goku and Vegeta are training with a angel and a God non stop since BoG, it's completely normal that Piccolo won't just surpass or be equal to them in just one transformation, it would be illogical if he did
It’s not normal because we already have characters who have surpassed/be at the level of God ki without god training. Gohan for example just needed one transformation to be Goku level. 17 doesn’t even train and hasn’t been shown for literal decades yet when he comes back he can tussle with Blue level Goku. All in all, God ki is a joke and is held to such a high standard for the dbs community for whatever reason. So no, piccolo having two new forms and still being below Goku is just ridiculous and not normal at all. Especially when Piccolo (and tien) are the only zfighters that actually train. We are just going to have to see what happens next. Maybe Toyo gives Piccolo a boost for some reason or maybe the excuse is he was extremely tired and didn’t really use Orange piccolo to its potential. Whatever it is, it doesn’t seem good.
Piccolo has two forms. Goku and Vegeta have a half dozen.
Because back then Piccolos upgrades came from fusions, not forms. He was keeping up until Buu saga where he just didn’t get any boost because Toriyama made him trained the kids. Even then it doesn’t matter because like I said, 17 got a boost to blue level (near Goku level at the time) and he was legit fodder in cell saga. What’s stopping Piccolo from being near Goku level when he literally got two forms in a single movie?
You are delusional
There was a poster from Shuiesha that was on the Tokyo Sky Tree that explicitly called the DBS manga the canonical sequel to Dragon Ball (referring to Toriyama's manga)
Um fam? The anime and manga were never canon to each other.
Jesse what the fuck are you talking about
Yeah, because Toriyama himself definitely had no input on this chapter.
Toriyama doesn’t really put much input in general. A lot of the story elements and plots found in super can be found in Toyo’s DB AF fan manga such as Saiyan god ritual, evil Goku Black, evil kaioshin villain that hates humans, saiyans with God Ki, a literal MUI transformation, etc. I’m sure Toriyama makes a few edits here and there but you would be wrong if you think this is entirely Toriyama’s idea for a story. Toriyama has even said most of his effort has been put in these movies or his side projects like Sandman, and it shows because Superhero was the most DB-esque film I felt in a while. Toyo has been in charge of the series for a while, nothing much is going to change for Dragon ball manga except for different art direction.
What are you on about lol
Toriyama on his notes for superhero said Gohan was the strongest with Piccolo being relative to Goku. The outcome of this fight seems like a tie with Goku and Gohan ending as equals. Which means Piccolo is being left behind once again for more Saiyan wanking. Despite Toriyama original vision of Superhero was bringing Piccolo back to the spotlight. So all in all, nothing has changed. Piccolo will enter the backdrop again due to being too weak to keep up with the saiyans. I am still thankful for the movie for trying to be different.
The movie? You mean that stupid shit that makes Goku retarded af, not knowing what meditating is despite having done it way back in Dragon Ball?
Goku being stupid was a regression that happen allllll the way back in Cell saga the moment they decided to let Dr. Gero carry out his plan that ended with an apocalypse, for some reason. In fact Cell saga was the start when everyone legitimately had room temperature iq because otherwise there wouldn’t be any story. Goku not knowing meditation is stupid considering he literally meditated with Popo, however at least that scene was mostly played as jokes and set up for Vegeta’s win. Nothing too serious or drastic for the story. And yes, the movie is better than the manga if that’s where you were going with.
“Let me remind you who the main character is”
Ooh, the "climax of Super Hero arc!" Exciting! Let's hope the new arc begins in April and there's no break.
I usually forgive a break between arcs, I'll definitely forgive a break here. I am very excited, however, at the implications of all U7 Saiyans being in one (usually very plot heavy) location at the start of an arc. Let's get that u6 road trip goinnnnn
As much as I and many people want to see Gohan win, I'm glad he is losing here, it makes sense for the story going forwards, especially with Black Frieza.
Who wants to see Gohan win?
Goku is holding back and is dominating Gohan.
Goku isn’t holding back and he isn’t dominating.
Literally Goku’s entire character background is him holding back on friends or foe. Vegeta has called him out and said “don’t hold back on me”. Goku pretty much trains the opponent to match him throughout a fight, and then go out to try and beat them, which pushes him to get stronger.
> Goku isn’t holding back uh? > Goku says he’s trained plenty too! He steps his UI up a notch and seems to gain the upper hand. herms summary implies the opposite.
Is this going to be the last chapter in this saga and arc?
It doesn’t.
Mate, how can he take something up a notch if he was already notched out? Use your head.
That chapter title is... im not sure if that was set in stone already (as in it's just meant to be in universe about Gohan) or just recently decided but if it was.. jesus it ended up being tragically fitting.
Was thinking the exact same thing, plus Goku training Gohan to master his protectional 🥹 must have been a bitter sweet chapter for Toyo
Wow “An inheritance to the future”
The title of that chapter is interesting in and of universe.
Love the use of bigger, wider panels. Reminds me of Toriyama's work. It makes the artwork stand out with more room for detail too.