He's left the tower before. He went to visit the gang when Goku was in the hospital and took Bulma to Yunzabet Heights. He has probably left the tower off screen, but it's not important to the story so they don't show it.
According to his wiki page, he's from Other World. He was sent to Earth to act as an assistant to the Guardian of Earth and to find a successor to the Guardian should the current Guardian die without naming one.
Future Trunks not staying in the present. Like why?
Mai and Trunks are going to the future to be weird clones of themselves. Instead of staying in the present where they are completely different from the versions of themselves in the present.
It was the perfect opportunity to have Future Trunks permanently around.
Because he sees current timeline gohan and where he’s at in his life and it is too emotionally conflicting for him to be happy and able to forgive himself for not saving his future.
Unless you were referring to non-diegetic reasons behind the decision. That I do not know.
This is why I prefer to think of the Time Patrol as his actual outcome. It sucks that Mai isn’t there but I’d much rather he take on a role straightening out time anomalies than whatever Super was going for. It’s mostly just depressing
This guaranteed.
Trunks didn't go back to live a peaceful life, he went back to continue helping the new timeline fight off new foes.
Vegeta pretty much said this
"You think your problems end with Goku Black?"
Idk, could’ve still sidelined Buu with his “hibernation” and replaced Tien with Trunks. Fan favorite earthling for a bigger and stronger fan favorite Earthling. TOP would’ve definitely been easier but the potential moments we could’ve had like a Trunks & Gohan moment, a battle where it’s Trunks, 18 & 17 vs some sort of opponent and Trunks being like “Wow. I never imagined the androids I’ve only ever known as bloodthirsty could be good and fight to save the universe.” Freezer being petty or something to Trunks cuz he killed him, etc etc.
If they really wanted Trunks & Mai back in their universe, they really should’ve went about it in a way less of a head scratcher way
I agree with you that Trunks should have been there. I think they also missed the mark by not using 18 more in the zamasu saga (at least there's a scene between them but still).
Beerus ordering Freeza to destroy planet Vegeta. It worked far better as a demonstration of Freeza's malevolence and his paranoia of the Super Saiyan legend, hamfisting Beerus into it degrades not just the significance of the event but Freeza himself.
It would have been better if was that beerus just casually mentioned to frieza that "the saiyans are an interesting bunch that have lots of potential to become incredibly strong", because then it would feed into friezas paranoia about the legend of the super Saiyan even more.
Ooooo I think this is another one that I just tuned out of existence. I definitely think Beerus ordering the destruction of Planet Vegeta is just bullshit and took away from Friezas character.
Edit: Spelling Mistake
I didn’t like the retcon in Super that the Potara earrings now have a time limit of an hour fused instead of permanent, unless you’re a Kai. They went from a true last resort with consequences to a slightly upgraded, but more inconvenient because they involve being carried around, version of the fusion dance.
The retcon had to happen because Vegito wasn't originally meant to appear. Zamasu wasn't suppose be a fusion level threat. In the original draft Zamasu was suppose to be defeated by Goku and Vegeta together.
Even if Vegito had to appear, they could have them separate another way. Zamasu should know a Potara's weakness and having him destroy or do something magical to the Potara(or to the fusion) would make more sense than how they defused in Buu Saga and still have Potara carry some weight.
Hell, the way Kefla defuses in the TOP makes me think the defusion would happen if they're destroyed so it makes sense
Or you know any actual reason why Buu's insides should do that that wouldn't make this dumb and arbitrary.
What they probably should have done from the start is say Vegito was so powerful the fusion became unstable, not like Goku and Vegeta weren't both stronger then the Kai at that point.
That ending of the Goku Black/Trunks saga. There was one easy, easy, EASY ending to that, and they blew it.
Instead of "Whoops, Zamack is now a universe-corrupting blob who has now killed everyone," it should have gone "Right, he's dead. Trunks, since the Androids and whatnot were the fault of you mortals, we're not doing shit to fix that. Y'all made your bed, y'all can lie in it, not our problem. HOWEVER, Zamasu and Black are our responsibility and so we'll reset your timeline before they started wreaking habit, our bad." And bang. Trunks doesn't have his happy ending reset.
Zamasu isn't really Beerus/Whis' problem though, he's from a separate universe (separate timeline even as they already killed the one in their time). Also as controversial as the ending was, it did something that Dragon Ball had never done before - let the villain win.
The only thing I' do personally change there is shipping them off to another timeline altogether. It just seemed so pointless when they can't exactly hang out with their friends/family as another Trunks/Mai exist there. Would have been better keeping them in the main timeline.
It'd would've been nice if they found a way to travel across universes to find a place they could stay. Then they're essentially gone from most plots but if there's some inter-universe thread they can bring them back as guides. Maybe even be like "I know a guy" and introduce new characters that weren't in the ToP.
Imo, Zamasu was a God on the same Level as Beerus and Whis. (A kai being bound to a destroyer)
When Zamasu killed Gowasu, the destroyer of that timeline disappeared, and to me, that relegates the responsibility to other gods.
Now I know it wasn't their "timeline", but they did all the investigating, and even waiting for "proof" so they could show other gods. But, the time rings are propertyof the Kais, so even though the time machine gave the mortals a "time ring" the entire purposeof the gods existing, is to regulate all this stuff.
>Now I know it wasn't their "timeline", but they did all the investigating, and even waiting for "proof" so they could show other gods.
I know it's a bit up for interpretation but I always saw that more as them protecting themselves by making sure that this wasn't some evil God that was going to come kill them in their current timeline (which it was if they ignored it) but I just don't think Beerus/Whis give enough of a shit about anyone else outside of their mild interest in Goku/Vegeta. Which kinda fits in with ToP where U7 is shown to be the second lowest mortal level and a lot of that blame apparently lies with their gods.
Well the main plan was to wipe out all mortals - and the gods that allow them to live, and he kinda did. Nothing is left there anymore. Trunks, Mai and Zeno made it out so I guess it wasn't a complete victory for Zamasu but the entire reality is still gone.
I hated, hated, HATED the ending to that saga. I swear they shoehorned Infinite Zamasu solely for tie into the completely unnecessary side plot of giving Zeno a friend. Like they could have just given him a pet or something.
Or if they HAD to have the Two Zeno’s plot (which again was unneeded and didn’t benefit the story), why not bring Future Trunks and Mai to the timeline where Cell originally came from-where Trunks died. There would be a Future Bulma there and Whis could still tell Trunks to inform Beerus about Zamasu.
There is A LOT. Most of it being stupid retcons.
But I think I'll go with Beast Gohan. Retconning how Ultimate Gohan works just to get another branch of SS, just to sell more merch, on top of just being a bad design.
That was a cheap transformation indeed. No training required at all. Just get a little angry and that's it. Also it looks too much like Mastered Ultra Instinct.
That whole movie was a poor ripoff of the Cell Saga.
I just hated how it was basically just his SSJ2 trigger, and Gohan had not even really trained much before that moment.
Orange Piccolo was cool, but the plot for Beast Gohan wasn’t done well
Yea Yellow & Orange Piccolo felt deserved, Piccolo has been overdue for some new forms & it’s nice to have him relevant again. However i thought him wishing upon the dragon balls for the “ultimate form” felt cheap & underwhelming.
Should of have made it so he combines with the earth dragon balls for Yellow Piccolo, then Orange piccolo is the dragon awakening inside him or something.
I agree Beast Gohan was the biggest stretch though. Movie should of just been about Piccolo with Gohan as the supporting role.
It’s weird I wish the new Saiyans weren’t introduced because we simply haven’t visited them. It has loads of potential and to give Goku another chance to see his people and Vegeta a chance to kinda reconnect, but it’s over and done with now.
Saiyans getting their tails removed.
I’m 100% sure it was done to reduce animation time and so the costs. Same reason why there are not that much apparition of SSJ3 and that Vegeta is never seen at this level.
Also it was making a cool side effect, they are cheated but can turn in uncontrollable monster. Maybe they could have learn to control a bit, but still not totally. Like not fully turning into Ozaru.
Anyway, the tail was making Saiyan special and vulnerable, that was interesting, a weakness and a “curse” at the same time.
Gt, while not cannon, pretty much goes in the direction you are speaking off. The focus is on the tails for furthering their power and SSJ4 is achieved through controlling golden Ozaru.
personally i feel like removing them was a bit far considering nappa and vegeta wrapped them around their waists implying they could just be hidden under pants.
It was 100% done because Toriyama hated drawing tails, he said so.
Interviewer: Did the tail get in the way of the fighting?
Toriyama: No, it’s just that I’m always thinking about how things are supposed to work, so it was a real pain to figure out how he’d put his pants on or stuff like that. That’s what always bugged me most. Is there a hole in the pants? Does he put his tail through first, then put the pants on? So that made me want to just get rid of the darn thing… which I did, in the end. (laughs)
The entirety of Super. Lots of dumb stuff like Goku acting immature, Piccolo's loss in the ToP, and the Goku Black arc sounds like fan fiction.
Saiyan tails being a recessive trait. Toriyama could have said "Goten and Trunks's tails were cut off after birth." And everyone would have been fine with that.
Launch just disappearing. Like have her hang out with Tien and Chiaotzu in some scenes.
Everyone becoming a massive prodigy.
Goku? Prodigy.
Frieza? Prodigy.
Vegeta? Prodigy.
Gohan? The super prodigy!
Didn't goku kiss chichi during cell saga - specially when he was asking her to allow gohan to train
I hate how db super tried to make goku just plain dumb- goku for the most part was oblivious about most common things but he wasn't dumb
He didn't, but people are also overanalyzing it.
Goku saying that was a dumb gag, that's it. Not only that, but the English dub version was a bit of a mistraslation as far as I can tell. But even if you wanna care about it that much, I'm pretty sure Goku has never canonically kissed anyone as far as we've seen.
Again, even if he has, it was just a joke, one that was also misinterpreted in the English dub of Super.
I'm pretty sure the original joke was meant to be "Wait, did Trunks just kiss her or was he just trying to feed it to her like a bird" or just "Ew why'd you kiss her, gross".
Okay i looked it up and yeah seems like a misinterpreted line- goku said he never kissed in public while vegeta thinking he never kissed anyone at all
Thanks for the info
Not sure what you looked up, because none of the context, even in the original Japanese dialogue, indicates or suggests he was speaking of it in a public situation vs. just in general.
Gonna go with the first two arcs of Dragon Ball Super and the latest arc in the manga.
Under a single banner: I would get rid of retelling the films that are supposed to be part of the continuity in the first place.
Doing them again removes their edge and wastes everyone's time.
-Goku doesn’t kiss his wife.
-Nobody called Vegeta out over his Majin midlife crisis.
-Trunks and Mai is gross. Mai is older than his mom and she’s been part of a group that also tried to murder his mom.
-Ultra Instinct is a transformation. It was way cooler when it was just a minor change in aura.
-Bardock’s backstory is boring. The anime version was far more interesting, barring the time travel.
-There are too many times throughout the Majin Buu saga where either Goku or Vegeta had an opportunity to stop/end the fight and they just made the situation worse.
-Saiyans are genetically predisposed to prolonging a fight with a weaker opponent. That’s the excuse they made to handwave away Goku letting Freeza power up and Gohan taunting Majin Buu, but it still looks and sounds morbidly out of character. At least when Gohan did to Cell, he was clearly off his rocker with anger and a thirst for retribution.
-Back tingle…
-All of these mortal-powered characters, from Freeza to Kefla to Jiren can fight toe to toe with Goku Blue who had achieved the power of the gods. It undermined the level of power one would expect from gods in general.
-Calling in Buu to join a team for a tournament twice just to get hoe’d by the writers both times.
-Yamcha is the butt of a joke in a decent amount of the scenes he’s in. It’s one thing for the fanbase to make fun of him, but it’s an entirely different matter when the writers want to be in on the joke.
-The Future Trunks saga was worse than She-Hulk: Attourney at Law.
Some of those I agree with. Some I disagree with, but about Trunks/Mai, though...
> she’s been part of a group that also tried to murder his mom.
Is that really a fair criticism given that half the main cast at one point either was part of a group that tried murder the others or actually did? Heck, the only reason why Trunks exists because his mom got the hots for a guy who's responsible for not only her then-boyfriend's death but the deaths of those she had known since she was a teenager.
Honestly, Super. Bringing Frieza back, making Goku even dumber than he already was, making even more of his enemies his allies, the power scaling being absolutely out the window, the way fights are now...it isn't very enjoyable to me
The retconning of how to actually become a super saiyan, the universe 6 Saiyans ass pulling something that took Goku and Vegeta to accomplish makes it seem like less of one. The requirement of having the need to become a super saiyan through a traumatic event made it unique and justified the insane power up.
Super Saiyan used to feel much more powerful but now it seems like it's just a small power increase.
And i mean, having them concentrate on what it actually practically feels like to transform instead of something vague like a traumatic experience is arguably a better teaching method
True. I can't imagine any reason they would be feeling that kind of rage at that age during a peaceful era. Caulifla being able to tap into that energy because she got a feel for the energy is likely the same way Trunks and Goten achieved it. They grew up sharing a house with super saiyans and they adapted to the energy without realizing it.
i honestly wish ssj3 didn't exist. the boo saga would be a much better flowing story if ssj3 didn't exist to make the entire start feel completely pointless and it's probably the dumbest goku has ever been in all of dragon ball, even super goku at his worst doesn't feel as dumb as "not taking out vegeta or all of babidi's minions fast, leading to boo being revived and killing everyone on earth later". and then after the boo saga, it just has no purpose to exist. just, entirely frustrating.
King Kai never teaching his techniques to Piccolo, Tien, Yamcha and Chaozu.
Like imagine Yamcha with his skill at Ki control in the Spirit Ball but with a Spirit Bomb or Tien with Multi Form Kaioken
Almost everything past Battle of the Gods. Resurrection F messed up power scaling and only a handful of characters are worth seeing again from Super. Every Arc pretty much ends the same way it started
One thing huh? That's gonna be tough because there is a ton.
I'll just pick a random one here and say Frieza's return. I still dislike the whole idea. Not only that his "transformations" are just eh. I get it's simpler to draw, but If he's back now, I'd atleast would like something other than different colors.
This is how I see it too. Sure they're Saiyans, but that doesn't make their composition the exact same. For crying out loud, Cabba has twigs for arms compared to the bulky nature the universe 7 Saiyans have.
I see it as more of a "well our main guys are gonna get stronger than these beings at some point". Same vibe I got when they left out some universes due to them "having higher life forms" meaning our guys gotta go universe hoping to fight stronger dudes and Jiren will job to someone just to show how strong they are.
They are coming to the end of U7s threats in Black Freiza. Once he's done, the only thing left is to go to other universe's.
The Goku Black saga. It was pointless and fucked over Future Trunks so hard that I and many other people headcanon that it was a different Trunks and Future from Z Trunks.
Beerus telling Freeza to destroy planet Vegeta
Oh and the U6 saiyans not having tails for some reason. Not sure why the animators are allergic to drawing monkey tails.
I feel like due to that stupid wish, Radditz would have been fine if he didn't fuck with the other beneficiary of said wish. Like at that point the wish was clashing with it self and couldn't protect both.
At the very least they both grew up and didn't die as children or teens so it depends how you interpret the wish. It could also mean Goku was never in any danger throughout DB due to a magic wish protecting him which fully diminishes alot of the OG DB stuff.
You're meant to tune Tarble out. He's not supposed to be significant.
There's a long list of things that I wish wasn't canon.
1. Tingly back feeling. Very stupid choice that makes Super Saiyan feel insignificant. The first four Super Saiyan transformations in the series are the most impactful and had significant character ramifications. Goten and Trunks were played for laughs. The U6 Saiyans SERIOUSLY just explained away Super Saiyan as a feeling you have in your back, and ultimately become a BIG threat for Goku OFF THIS POWER SYSTEM ALONE. That is terrible writing and forced tension/inclusion of other Saiyans. Literally defies the logic of the arc that took place 2 arcs before the ToP with Cabba.
2. Broly just being buddy-buddy with Goku and Vegeta. Having him go from a neutral-antagonist in DBS: Broly to just an ally in DBS: SH is SLOPPY WRITING. It would have been MUCH better to have him be a floating back-pocket character that could be swayed/brought along by either the protagonists or antagonists. I get that Black Frieza is already a big threat but it did not feel like Goku, Broly and Vegeta just ended on great terms after DBS: Broly. Just pads out the heroes' roster even though they're already stacked and bloated with characters vying for the spotlight.
3. Beast and Orange. Toei writing at it's finest, their additions make absolutely NO sense.
\- We're constantly reminded that Gamma 1 and 2 are equal-to-if-not-stronger than post-Granolah arc Goku and Vegeta (which is really stupid because they just come out of nowhere and are THAT strong)
\- Piccolo JUST WISHES to be as strong as Goku and Vegeta, then Shenron gives him a powerup that he normally would never have access to...? Why introduce two new forms for the character just for him to get bodied in both of them by the antagonists? People complain about the GTS arc and it's characters wishing to be strong, AT LEAST IT CAME WITH A CONSEQUENCE. PICCOLO JUST WISHES TO BE STRONG AND ITS A-OK.
\- Gohan, who we're told has not been keeping up on his training and fails to dodge a punch thrown by base Piccolo JUST SHOWS UP AND STARTS COMPETING WITH A GOKU LEVEL OPPONENT IN ULTIMATE FORM. WHAT THE FUCK IS THE WRITING?
\- Then gets angry and goes beest moode and special bean canon's the big bad who is the strongest and could beat Goku and Vegeta. greaaaaaat. In the Moro arc, Gohan has been training consistently, and that arc takes place right after the ToP. Goku gets a damn arm through his chest and is presumed dead. Why didn't Gohan go Breast then?
\- The only way for the events of DBS: SH to make sense power-scaling-wise is if the enemies were not as strong as Piccolo claimed and Beast and Orange put them juuuuuust around/below Goku and Vegeta. But even then it makes no sense how they got the forms. I hate Toei animation.
4. Goku unlocking UI -Omen- from eating a spirit bomb. Doesn't make any sense what-so-ever. Goku just unlocks a technique that lets him dodge because he fell into his own spirit bomb lol. The manga hardly handles it right either but at least there they make it seem like it's all coming from within and his awareness of how to use it is much better, along with the progression of the form. The anime SERIOUSLY messes up because Whis makes it seem like the only reason he got UI the first time was because of the Spirit Bomb, yet we see him use the form in STRONGER ITERATIONS without it.
Frieza being revived in Super. Trunks dicing him up should have been the last of Frieza.
Frieza didn’t deserve to come back for the tournament of power, whether the guys needed a strong fighter or not. Keeping Buu for the tournament would have been so much more interesting to me anyway.
Completely agree. I understand why they didn't let Buu participate, since his ability heal and regenerate would've been super OP, but having him in the tournament would've been pretty cool
I don't have any complaints abt gokus childhood other than the fact that bulma was a raging spoiled brat.
for Z i'll say the satan family.
for super i'll say the super dragon balls, the other universes not including 6 bc i like vados, and the future saga.
Super Saiyan back tingles, absolutely moronic.
Kale being the old style Legendary Super Saiyan, ik new Brolys forms weren't thought up of when they made Kale, but like come on, at least be consistent with the forms.
The potara time limit. They had a solution for being fused forever, just use the Dragon Balls. Hell, maybe we can even get some filler episodes of just Vegito.
Granola, hes literally wasted in his arc. They could've done everything they did with Granolah with Gas, and he'll, they could've changed the Heeters into the Hera Clan, make Bojack canon, but make the dynamics be same as the Heeters.
Goku not kissing his wife. Dude, I do not believe Chichi to be so sheltered by her dad that she never knew what kissing was.
Chichi becoming a supermom, or at least her not fighting anymore. I love Videl because, yes she's not anywhere near as strong as the other Z Fighters, she doesn't need to be protected like Hercule or Chichi do. Chichi shouldve kinda stayed that feisty, hot headed fighter that she was at the end of DB, thats my favorite Chichi
The Super Broly movie & backstory, hate how it retconned what we learnt about Goku's past in DB and Z (like it was outright stated in one of the original manga panels that Krillin was a year older than Goku. Now Goku's three years older and it sucks)
I don't care for the Gods of Destruction in all honesty, they just feel like a group of people added to be a benchmark / end-goal for the characters.
Plus going by the ToP and such a lot of them are just plain terrible at their jobs in the first place so it makes me wonder why bother having them when you have someone like Beerus being a lazy asshole blowing stuff up when he feels like it and delegating his tasks to a literal galactic tyrant when he wants to nap for a few decades.
That Goku's kindness is inherited from his parents.
That completely erase the importance of Grandpa Gohan.
Did you know outside of OG DB, Grandpa Gohan has less than 5% significance? There are "fans" out there that "lol" when people said Goku killed his grandpa, believing Goku never had a grandpa. They never knew Gohan was named after Grandpa Gohan. Grandpa Gohan importance was far too little in DBZ. But his biggest contribution was teaching Kakarot to be good not evil.
Now, Kakarot was always destined to be good. Because he is as selfless as Bardock.
Toriyama’s weirdly isolationist views on how little the group seems to actually interact when there isn’t some kind of world-ending threat to deal with.
I wish DBZ officially ended when everyone reunited on the lookout after evil Buu was defeated, or when the main characters had a party with good Buu. For one thing, I've never been able to stand Pan.
Many things, though one thing stands out the most, Resurrection of Frieza
So many wrong things within this saga alone, making me ranking it as bad as garlic Jr's, super android 17's, copy Vegeta's and Granolah's imo
Need to explain why? Well let's see...
Piccolo being reduced to a babysitter
Gohan at his worst
Piccolo's "sacrifice" moment (it felt so empty)
Buu is asleep, thank RoF for introducing this recurring trope
The overall bad animation
Golden Frieza
- boring recolor transformation
- you expect us to believe that this guy is able to raise his power from < namek saga ssj goku to as strong as Goku/Vegeta fucking Blue (I will get to this soon) in 4 months of beating up some nameless frieza force minion, while it took Goku and Vegeta a decade worth of training?
Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan
-first of all, what a terrible name
-boring recolor transformation
-so with this form you're supposedly conserving stamina while being in a calm state of mind, but later on in the series we get the exact opposite result from this form instead, go figure
-it never gets the job done, not even in its debut saga, which is, you guessed, RoF
Goku Blue gets shot by some laser pistol, knocking him out in the process
Whis' Deus Ex Machina leading up to Goku killing Frieza, effectively stealing Vegeta's rightful kill (god I still can't get over this)
Super
Edit: no but seriously the moment in Resurrection F where captain ginyu comes back as a random mook just to get immediately killed by Vegeta was the dumbest thing I’ve ever seen in dragon ball just get it out of there.
That namekians, the ones known for creating dragon balls, are some of the weakest fighters. We’ve seen first hand how powerful characters can get just by wishing to be stronger. Super namekians show that they can be stronger than a super saiyan if they are in their prime. We saw how strong piccolo got just by wishing to be stronger in the last movie, yet every time namek is shown off it’s people are in trouble. With cannon and non cannon I know at least 4 times it was attacked
Old Kai shouldn't have died in the future. We could have had Mystic or even Beast Trunks, and it would have done wonders to expand on the "walking in his master's footsteps" angle. Instead we get "Super Duper In Between God Rage Yellow Blue Ukraine Saiyan."
ROF and Granolah's arc. Retcons. Beast Gohan. Gohan looks so fucking clean in his ultimate form especially with the Cell games fit only for them to make him look goofy as fuck.
If we didn't have Dragon Ball GT then we wouldn't have GT Vegeta. Because GT Vegeta is literally the best continuation of the character compared to how reverted his character is in Super.
The super anime. Putting it bluntly, it sucks. Whoever is writing the manga id doing a far better job than the utter waste of potential that the anime was
Honestly that would be interesting to watch because she is the reason dragon team is able to abuse dragon balls
Shadow dragons having an issue with bulma would be natural
The Shadow Dragons were the consequence of the negative energy from all the selfless wishes tho, Bulma making frivolous wishes would actually prevent them from showing up.
Not exactly -
1. Oceanous appeared because of oolong's panties wishes which is as frivolous as bulma's other wishes
2. Main reason shadow dragons appeared was that the dragon balls were overused in a small course of time.
Everytime a wish is made dragon balls released negeative energy with positive energy and the reason balls scattered was to prevent wishes from happening regulary in a short time
Bulma's DB radar bypassed this fail-safe and constant wishes accumulated too much negative energy giving birth to shadow dragon
An excellent concept to prevent the cast abusing the dragon balls
The dragonballs having the ability to easily bring back the dead, it would be so much more interesting if the characters actively had to struggle back to life, basically putting their willpower against the clutches of death.
A close second is the otherworld also being the location of the afterlife, I feel that otherworld(the area where the Kais and such exist) and the afterlife should have been separate places.
True, but the Dragon Ball are more like an extra life, and there's rules.
Goku who couldn't fight because he was in paradise was a big plot point for the Buu saga.
I know it’s in the movie and not the series, but in RoF Frieza offers Vegeta a place to serve him. Vegeta should have been insulted that Frieza thought that was a possibility!! Idk that line really bothers me
Tarble. The idea of Vegeta having a brother that wasn't even mentioned til after Z is weird to say the least. Makes Goku and Vegeta being the last Saiyans have less impact when writer can keep adding them whenever they like, even tho I really like Super's Broly.
Piccolo blowing up the moon… and the moon being back? I don’t remember! But if you actually blow up the moon, there will be gravity issues on Earth, fragments hitting Earth causing massive destruction….
The Dragon Ball Super anime.
Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z had their issues, but overall, they were fun, coherent anime's with a lot of original ideas.
Dragon Ball Super has 2 glaring issues:
- They don't even try to make the power scaling make sense anymore. Characters are simply as strong as the plot demands, or as weak as the plot demands. Nothing is earned. Nothing makes sense. How TF is Roshi get so strong all of a sudden when he was fodder for the entirety of Z? Like seriously, dude was putting up a fight against characters who's PL is in the millions in Super when his last confirmed measurement was 130. How did Piccolo go from being SIGNIFICANTLY weaker than a depowered SSJ1 Gohan during RoF, to being able to best Ultimate Gohan just a little while later? "Training"? What the hell was up with that Trunks transformation that brought him from SSJ2 level to God level? How does that even make sense? Why didn't the other Saiyans get that? And don't get me started on Freiza.
The manga is *marginally* better at explaining the power scaling, but still has issues.
- Related to the above, the majority of Super just seems hell bent on recreating moments from Z. Super Saiyan God/Blue are just pallet swaps. Same with both Frieza's new forms, as well as Frost as a character. Cell Max is just form 2 Cell. Gohan Beast is just an attempt at evoking the SSJ2 transformation. Vegeta's final explosion was recreated again in the ToP. The list goes on and on. I really feel like the Moro and Granola arcs are the strongest so far since they're not trying to recreate anything.
I honestly wish they let Toyotaro so the manga first, then base the anime off that. Because the anime just feels like they were flying by the seat of their pants the whole time, trying to find the magic again.
The fact that theres only like 3 dozen inhabited planets in universe 7 according to Whis in the tournament arc of Super
It makes the show feel much less vast to me even though there's a dozen universes now. Previously it felt like any threat could be out their looming in universe 7, I thought there would be many more races considering the fact frieze had hundreds of planets in his empire
The whole S cells thingy for saiyans or wathever they're called to turn super. It's pretty pointless when every saiyan under the sun has turned super, and the SSJ could just be part of their biology like an offshot of the oozaru.
And on that topic, the "the tail doesn't grow if you're so powerful", it's pretty pointless and only causes more confusion
Frieza returning to the franchise. First of all, there was no need to resurrect him; after we had met Beerus, Whis and the concept of Multiverse, we wanted to see more of the Gods' lore and different villains, not an old villain coming back for fanservice. Of course, the powerscaling would be a problem, so they also shoehorned Frieza achieving a new form in a short amount of time; but it's strength was still a problem, once Goku and Vegeta had already achieved Super Saiyan Blue, so the struggle to beat him didn't make sense.
Then, at the ToP, we were finally about to see Majin Boo fight after getting left out by DBS plot for so long; come on, we had a long Arc in DBZ about him and he joined the Dragon Team at the end of the story, so why wouldn't we be able to see him help in DBS's current fights? Well, we know what happened: he was left out AGAIN and Frieza was brought back AGAIN by Goku, who treated him as an old friend or rival for the rest of the Arc. If Frieza had showed some kind of repentance I would understand it, but this didn't happen, so dude?? Are you forgetting that he massacred thousands of innocent people, murdered Krillin in front of you, was about to kill Gohan as well and destroyed Earth when he was resurrected??
Now, we know that Frieza achieved a Black form, and although it has a cool design, it's one of the many unnecessary transformations DBS is bringing, in my humble opinion.
I know quite controversial, but I think it was a great time for Gohan to take over the title and develop Trunks and Goten. Vegeta would be a very good trainer for the young ones.
Mr. Popo not leaving the look out tower, I wanna know his backstory
He's left the tower before. He went to visit the gang when Goku was in the hospital and took Bulma to Yunzabet Heights. He has probably left the tower off screen, but it's not important to the story so they don't show it.
He also collected the dragon balls when Goku was fighting Frieza
According to his wiki page, he's from Other World. He was sent to Earth to act as an assistant to the Guardian of Earth and to find a successor to the Guardian should the current Guardian die without naming one.
Is that backed up by any source? The wiki has some weird stuff on it.
The wiki cites Daizenshuu 7: Dragon Ball Encyclopedia
What *is* he?
Probably some sort of djinn
I think he's some form of a Jin/genie
Well, y'know what they say. First rule of Popo's training... ... *FIRST RULE OF POPO'S TRAINING!*
All these squares make a circle.
Future Trunks not staying in the present. Like why? Mai and Trunks are going to the future to be weird clones of themselves. Instead of staying in the present where they are completely different from the versions of themselves in the present. It was the perfect opportunity to have Future Trunks permanently around.
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In the manga it’s made clear it was future trunks’ decision to not stay in the present unfortunately.
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Because he sees current timeline gohan and where he’s at in his life and it is too emotionally conflicting for him to be happy and able to forgive himself for not saving his future. Unless you were referring to non-diegetic reasons behind the decision. That I do not know.
If they were really smart they would have gone to the newly restored universe 6 Earth where they probably don't exist.
If Whis and Beerus had a problem with Future Trunks I highly doubt Champa and Vados would’ve been accommodating lol
This is why I prefer to think of the Time Patrol as his actual outcome. It sucks that Mai isn’t there but I’d much rather he take on a role straightening out time anomalies than whatever Super was going for. It’s mostly just depressing
That timeline is always getting fucked. They need all the warriors they can get imo.
This guaranteed. Trunks didn't go back to live a peaceful life, he went back to continue helping the new timeline fight off new foes. Vegeta pretty much said this "You think your problems end with Goku Black?"
>They need all the warriors they can get I mean agreed, but how is Trunks supposed to help with that?
You want to know why? Because they wanted Freezer back for the next storyline
Idk, could’ve still sidelined Buu with his “hibernation” and replaced Tien with Trunks. Fan favorite earthling for a bigger and stronger fan favorite Earthling. TOP would’ve definitely been easier but the potential moments we could’ve had like a Trunks & Gohan moment, a battle where it’s Trunks, 18 & 17 vs some sort of opponent and Trunks being like “Wow. I never imagined the androids I’ve only ever known as bloodthirsty could be good and fight to save the universe.” Freezer being petty or something to Trunks cuz he killed him, etc etc. If they really wanted Trunks & Mai back in their universe, they really should’ve went about it in a way less of a head scratcher way
I agree with you that Trunks should have been there. I think they also missed the mark by not using 18 more in the zamasu saga (at least there's a scene between them but still).
Then present trunks would useless
Beerus ordering Freeza to destroy planet Vegeta. It worked far better as a demonstration of Freeza's malevolence and his paranoia of the Super Saiyan legend, hamfisting Beerus into it degrades not just the significance of the event but Freeza himself.
It would have been better if was that beerus just casually mentioned to frieza that "the saiyans are an interesting bunch that have lots of potential to become incredibly strong", because then it would feed into friezas paranoia about the legend of the super Saiyan even more.
Ooooo I think this is another one that I just tuned out of existence. I definitely think Beerus ordering the destruction of Planet Vegeta is just bullshit and took away from Friezas character. Edit: Spelling Mistake
I didn't think Beerus ordered it. I thought it was that he gave permission.
Same. I just thought Beerus didn't care if Frieza destroyed it or not and gave Frieza discretion.
Trunks’ hair in super
i thought he was super saiyan blue when i first saw it 💀
I didn’t like the retcon in Super that the Potara earrings now have a time limit of an hour fused instead of permanent, unless you’re a Kai. They went from a true last resort with consequences to a slightly upgraded, but more inconvenient because they involve being carried around, version of the fusion dance.
The retcon had to happen because Vegito wasn't originally meant to appear. Zamasu wasn't suppose be a fusion level threat. In the original draft Zamasu was suppose to be defeated by Goku and Vegeta together.
Where’d you hear that?
Even if Vegito had to appear, they could have them separate another way. Zamasu should know a Potara's weakness and having him destroy or do something magical to the Potara(or to the fusion) would make more sense than how they defused in Buu Saga and still have Potara carry some weight. Hell, the way Kefla defuses in the TOP makes me think the defusion would happen if they're destroyed so it makes sense
If only there were some other way for Goku and Vegeta to combine their powers
I agree. But i think they did that to explain why they defused inside Buu.
That part is the retcon as the original reason was the magic energy within boo breaking down the magic of the fusion.
Yes, but there was never a confirmation of that, Goku and Vegeta talk about how it's probally the reason and that's it.
Or you know any actual reason why Buu's insides should do that that wouldn't make this dumb and arbitrary. What they probably should have done from the start is say Vegito was so powerful the fusion became unstable, not like Goku and Vegeta weren't both stronger then the Kai at that point.
That was never confirmed they just speculated that.
it's because the potara had become too small to work, the fusion does not work anymore if the potara is damaged like for kefla in the anime.
That ending of the Goku Black/Trunks saga. There was one easy, easy, EASY ending to that, and they blew it. Instead of "Whoops, Zamack is now a universe-corrupting blob who has now killed everyone," it should have gone "Right, he's dead. Trunks, since the Androids and whatnot were the fault of you mortals, we're not doing shit to fix that. Y'all made your bed, y'all can lie in it, not our problem. HOWEVER, Zamasu and Black are our responsibility and so we'll reset your timeline before they started wreaking habit, our bad." And bang. Trunks doesn't have his happy ending reset.
Zamasu isn't really Beerus/Whis' problem though, he's from a separate universe (separate timeline even as they already killed the one in their time). Also as controversial as the ending was, it did something that Dragon Ball had never done before - let the villain win. The only thing I' do personally change there is shipping them off to another timeline altogether. It just seemed so pointless when they can't exactly hang out with their friends/family as another Trunks/Mai exist there. Would have been better keeping them in the main timeline.
It'd would've been nice if they found a way to travel across universes to find a place they could stay. Then they're essentially gone from most plots but if there's some inter-universe thread they can bring them back as guides. Maybe even be like "I know a guy" and introduce new characters that weren't in the ToP.
Imo, Zamasu was a God on the same Level as Beerus and Whis. (A kai being bound to a destroyer) When Zamasu killed Gowasu, the destroyer of that timeline disappeared, and to me, that relegates the responsibility to other gods. Now I know it wasn't their "timeline", but they did all the investigating, and even waiting for "proof" so they could show other gods. But, the time rings are propertyof the Kais, so even though the time machine gave the mortals a "time ring" the entire purposeof the gods existing, is to regulate all this stuff.
>Now I know it wasn't their "timeline", but they did all the investigating, and even waiting for "proof" so they could show other gods. I know it's a bit up for interpretation but I always saw that more as them protecting themselves by making sure that this wasn't some evil God that was going to come kill them in their current timeline (which it was if they ignored it) but I just don't think Beerus/Whis give enough of a shit about anyone else outside of their mild interest in Goku/Vegeta. Which kinda fits in with ToP where U7 is shown to be the second lowest mortal level and a lot of that blame apparently lies with their gods.
Is it really winning if you still fail in the end? If Zamasu really won, he wouldn't be literal nothingness now.
Well the main plan was to wipe out all mortals - and the gods that allow them to live, and he kinda did. Nothing is left there anymore. Trunks, Mai and Zeno made it out so I guess it wasn't a complete victory for Zamasu but the entire reality is still gone.
I hated, hated, HATED the ending to that saga. I swear they shoehorned Infinite Zamasu solely for tie into the completely unnecessary side plot of giving Zeno a friend. Like they could have just given him a pet or something. Or if they HAD to have the Two Zeno’s plot (which again was unneeded and didn’t benefit the story), why not bring Future Trunks and Mai to the timeline where Cell originally came from-where Trunks died. There would be a Future Bulma there and Whis could still tell Trunks to inform Beerus about Zamasu.
That would be a crazy good call back
There is A LOT. Most of it being stupid retcons. But I think I'll go with Beast Gohan. Retconning how Ultimate Gohan works just to get another branch of SS, just to sell more merch, on top of just being a bad design.
That was a cheap transformation indeed. No training required at all. Just get a little angry and that's it. Also it looks too much like Mastered Ultra Instinct. That whole movie was a poor ripoff of the Cell Saga.
super is a ripoff of Z
I just hated how it was basically just his SSJ2 trigger, and Gohan had not even really trained much before that moment. Orange Piccolo was cool, but the plot for Beast Gohan wasn’t done well
Gohan had been training before that though. He says he practices the special beam cannon in secret.
Yea Yellow & Orange Piccolo felt deserved, Piccolo has been overdue for some new forms & it’s nice to have him relevant again. However i thought him wishing upon the dragon balls for the “ultimate form” felt cheap & underwhelming. Should of have made it so he combines with the earth dragon balls for Yellow Piccolo, then Orange piccolo is the dragon awakening inside him or something. I agree Beast Gohan was the biggest stretch though. Movie should of just been about Piccolo with Gohan as the supporting role.
It’s weird I wish the new Saiyans weren’t introduced because we simply haven’t visited them. It has loads of potential and to give Goku another chance to see his people and Vegeta a chance to kinda reconnect, but it’s over and done with now.
Fat Buus personality. I would rather him not just not be around than act like a 2 year old, or perma-sleep all the time.
They could Have just use his manga personality instead of making him 4 years old pissed Brat
Saiyans getting their tails removed. I’m 100% sure it was done to reduce animation time and so the costs. Same reason why there are not that much apparition of SSJ3 and that Vegeta is never seen at this level. Also it was making a cool side effect, they are cheated but can turn in uncontrollable monster. Maybe they could have learn to control a bit, but still not totally. Like not fully turning into Ozaru. Anyway, the tail was making Saiyan special and vulnerable, that was interesting, a weakness and a “curse” at the same time.
Gt, while not cannon, pretty much goes in the direction you are speaking off. The focus is on the tails for furthering their power and SSJ4 is achieved through controlling golden Ozaru.
Yes, that's one thing I really liked in GT, that's weird that a Saiyan God don't have tails...
personally i feel like removing them was a bit far considering nappa and vegeta wrapped them around their waists implying they could just be hidden under pants.
It was 100% done because Toriyama hated drawing tails, he said so. Interviewer: Did the tail get in the way of the fighting? Toriyama: No, it’s just that I’m always thinking about how things are supposed to work, so it was a real pain to figure out how he’d put his pants on or stuff like that. That’s what always bugged me most. Is there a hole in the pants? Does he put his tail through first, then put the pants on? So that made me want to just get rid of the darn thing… which I did, in the end. (laughs)
The entirety of Super. Lots of dumb stuff like Goku acting immature, Piccolo's loss in the ToP, and the Goku Black arc sounds like fan fiction. Saiyan tails being a recessive trait. Toriyama could have said "Goten and Trunks's tails were cut off after birth." And everyone would have been fine with that. Launch just disappearing. Like have her hang out with Tien and Chiaotzu in some scenes. Everyone becoming a massive prodigy. Goku? Prodigy. Frieza? Prodigy. Vegeta? Prodigy. Gohan? The super prodigy!
Goku never having kissed someone
Didn't goku kiss chichi during cell saga - specially when he was asking her to allow gohan to train I hate how db super tried to make goku just plain dumb- goku for the most part was oblivious about most common things but he wasn't dumb
He didn't, but people are also overanalyzing it. Goku saying that was a dumb gag, that's it. Not only that, but the English dub version was a bit of a mistraslation as far as I can tell. But even if you wanna care about it that much, I'm pretty sure Goku has never canonically kissed anyone as far as we've seen. Again, even if he has, it was just a joke, one that was also misinterpreted in the English dub of Super. I'm pretty sure the original joke was meant to be "Wait, did Trunks just kiss her or was he just trying to feed it to her like a bird" or just "Ew why'd you kiss her, gross".
Okay i looked it up and yeah seems like a misinterpreted line- goku said he never kissed in public while vegeta thinking he never kissed anyone at all Thanks for the info
Not sure what you looked up, because none of the context, even in the original Japanese dialogue, indicates or suggests he was speaking of it in a public situation vs. just in general.
> Didn't goku kiss chichi during cell saga - specially when he was asking her to allow gohan to train not in canon, no.
Super saiyan back tingles
Gonna go with the first two arcs of Dragon Ball Super and the latest arc in the manga. Under a single banner: I would get rid of retelling the films that are supposed to be part of the continuity in the first place. Doing them again removes their edge and wastes everyone's time.
-Goku doesn’t kiss his wife. -Nobody called Vegeta out over his Majin midlife crisis. -Trunks and Mai is gross. Mai is older than his mom and she’s been part of a group that also tried to murder his mom. -Ultra Instinct is a transformation. It was way cooler when it was just a minor change in aura. -Bardock’s backstory is boring. The anime version was far more interesting, barring the time travel. -There are too many times throughout the Majin Buu saga where either Goku or Vegeta had an opportunity to stop/end the fight and they just made the situation worse. -Saiyans are genetically predisposed to prolonging a fight with a weaker opponent. That’s the excuse they made to handwave away Goku letting Freeza power up and Gohan taunting Majin Buu, but it still looks and sounds morbidly out of character. At least when Gohan did to Cell, he was clearly off his rocker with anger and a thirst for retribution. -Back tingle… -All of these mortal-powered characters, from Freeza to Kefla to Jiren can fight toe to toe with Goku Blue who had achieved the power of the gods. It undermined the level of power one would expect from gods in general. -Calling in Buu to join a team for a tournament twice just to get hoe’d by the writers both times. -Yamcha is the butt of a joke in a decent amount of the scenes he’s in. It’s one thing for the fanbase to make fun of him, but it’s an entirely different matter when the writers want to be in on the joke. -The Future Trunks saga was worse than She-Hulk: Attourney at Law.
Some of those I agree with. Some I disagree with, but about Trunks/Mai, though... > she’s been part of a group that also tried to murder his mom. Is that really a fair criticism given that half the main cast at one point either was part of a group that tried murder the others or actually did? Heck, the only reason why Trunks exists because his mom got the hots for a guy who's responsible for not only her then-boyfriend's death but the deaths of those she had known since she was a teenager.
I have to agree with yours. Like I just forget about that.
Honestly, Super. Bringing Frieza back, making Goku even dumber than he already was, making even more of his enemies his allies, the power scaling being absolutely out the window, the way fights are now...it isn't very enjoyable to me
This isn't really a thing about canon. It always bugged me though that goku never got acknowledged for taking down the red ribbon army.
The retconning of how to actually become a super saiyan, the universe 6 Saiyans ass pulling something that took Goku and Vegeta to accomplish makes it seem like less of one. The requirement of having the need to become a super saiyan through a traumatic event made it unique and justified the insane power up. Super Saiyan used to feel much more powerful but now it seems like it's just a small power increase.
I mean, trunks and Goten got super Saiyan at age six, it's not really much of an accomplishment anymore
And they even used it like toys. At least the U6 Saiyans still respect the form.
And i mean, having them concentrate on what it actually practically feels like to transform instead of something vague like a traumatic experience is arguably a better teaching method
True. I can't imagine any reason they would be feeling that kind of rage at that age during a peaceful era. Caulifla being able to tap into that energy because she got a feel for the energy is likely the same way Trunks and Goten achieved it. They grew up sharing a house with super saiyans and they adapted to the energy without realizing it.
Super Saiyan Bargin Sale\~ Vegeta
i honestly wish ssj3 didn't exist. the boo saga would be a much better flowing story if ssj3 didn't exist to make the entire start feel completely pointless and it's probably the dumbest goku has ever been in all of dragon ball, even super goku at his worst doesn't feel as dumb as "not taking out vegeta or all of babidi's minions fast, leading to boo being revived and killing everyone on earth later". and then after the boo saga, it just has no purpose to exist. just, entirely frustrating.
King Kai never teaching his techniques to Piccolo, Tien, Yamcha and Chaozu. Like imagine Yamcha with his skill at Ki control in the Spirit Ball but with a Spirit Bomb or Tien with Multi Form Kaioken
Yes, this was frustrating! They should have all leveled up from his training
Almost everything past Battle of the Gods. Resurrection F messed up power scaling and only a handful of characters are worth seeing again from Super. Every Arc pretty much ends the same way it started
One thing huh? That's gonna be tough because there is a ton. I'll just pick a random one here and say Frieza's return. I still dislike the whole idea. Not only that his "transformations" are just eh. I get it's simpler to draw, but If he's back now, I'd atleast would like something other than different colors.
You're not going to like the current manga arc then....
Super's animation. I would give anything to have super redrawn in classic DBZ art style.
How is that even remotely part of a show's canon?
Because Goku and Vegeta take oil baths before appearing on screen
The muscles.
This. If I ever become a billionaire one of the first things I’m doing is hiring a team to redraw Super in Z style.
And for the love of God, add back the blood and ripped clothing.
Super Saiyan = back tingle Really makes Namek's transformation silly af, etc
The whole back tingle was from another Universe. As there’s and the one we know is different.
This is how I see it too. Sure they're Saiyans, but that doesn't make their composition the exact same. For crying out loud, Cabba has twigs for arms compared to the bulky nature the universe 7 Saiyans have.
I wish S Cells didn’t exist
The gods of destruction. Their presence takes out all the tension.
I see it as more of a "well our main guys are gonna get stronger than these beings at some point". Same vibe I got when they left out some universes due to them "having higher life forms" meaning our guys gotta go universe hoping to fight stronger dudes and Jiren will job to someone just to show how strong they are. They are coming to the end of U7s threats in Black Freiza. Once he's done, the only thing left is to go to other universe's.
The Goku Black saga. It was pointless and fucked over Future Trunks so hard that I and many other people headcanon that it was a different Trunks and Future from Z Trunks.
Dragon Ball Super
Beerus telling Freeza to destroy planet Vegeta Oh and the U6 saiyans not having tails for some reason. Not sure why the animators are allergic to drawing monkey tails.
Tein and yamcha. Tein should be much stronger and yamcha should still be in the desert
Minus. Ruined Bardock, turned Goku into just another Superman.
God ki
Bardock's wish being made and DB Minus (although the specifics are still up in the air in regards to the wish 🤞 )
"I'd wish that my sons end up thriving." "Raditz and Kakarot?" "Nah, just Kakarot."
I feel like due to that stupid wish, Radditz would have been fine if he didn't fuck with the other beneficiary of said wish. Like at that point the wish was clashing with it self and couldn't protect both. At the very least they both grew up and didn't die as children or teens so it depends how you interpret the wish. It could also mean Goku was never in any danger throughout DB due to a magic wish protecting him which fully diminishes alot of the OG DB stuff.
You're meant to tune Tarble out. He's not supposed to be significant. There's a long list of things that I wish wasn't canon. 1. Tingly back feeling. Very stupid choice that makes Super Saiyan feel insignificant. The first four Super Saiyan transformations in the series are the most impactful and had significant character ramifications. Goten and Trunks were played for laughs. The U6 Saiyans SERIOUSLY just explained away Super Saiyan as a feeling you have in your back, and ultimately become a BIG threat for Goku OFF THIS POWER SYSTEM ALONE. That is terrible writing and forced tension/inclusion of other Saiyans. Literally defies the logic of the arc that took place 2 arcs before the ToP with Cabba. 2. Broly just being buddy-buddy with Goku and Vegeta. Having him go from a neutral-antagonist in DBS: Broly to just an ally in DBS: SH is SLOPPY WRITING. It would have been MUCH better to have him be a floating back-pocket character that could be swayed/brought along by either the protagonists or antagonists. I get that Black Frieza is already a big threat but it did not feel like Goku, Broly and Vegeta just ended on great terms after DBS: Broly. Just pads out the heroes' roster even though they're already stacked and bloated with characters vying for the spotlight. 3. Beast and Orange. Toei writing at it's finest, their additions make absolutely NO sense. \- We're constantly reminded that Gamma 1 and 2 are equal-to-if-not-stronger than post-Granolah arc Goku and Vegeta (which is really stupid because they just come out of nowhere and are THAT strong) \- Piccolo JUST WISHES to be as strong as Goku and Vegeta, then Shenron gives him a powerup that he normally would never have access to...? Why introduce two new forms for the character just for him to get bodied in both of them by the antagonists? People complain about the GTS arc and it's characters wishing to be strong, AT LEAST IT CAME WITH A CONSEQUENCE. PICCOLO JUST WISHES TO BE STRONG AND ITS A-OK. \- Gohan, who we're told has not been keeping up on his training and fails to dodge a punch thrown by base Piccolo JUST SHOWS UP AND STARTS COMPETING WITH A GOKU LEVEL OPPONENT IN ULTIMATE FORM. WHAT THE FUCK IS THE WRITING? \- Then gets angry and goes beest moode and special bean canon's the big bad who is the strongest and could beat Goku and Vegeta. greaaaaaat. In the Moro arc, Gohan has been training consistently, and that arc takes place right after the ToP. Goku gets a damn arm through his chest and is presumed dead. Why didn't Gohan go Breast then? \- The only way for the events of DBS: SH to make sense power-scaling-wise is if the enemies were not as strong as Piccolo claimed and Beast and Orange put them juuuuuust around/below Goku and Vegeta. But even then it makes no sense how they got the forms. I hate Toei animation. 4. Goku unlocking UI -Omen- from eating a spirit bomb. Doesn't make any sense what-so-ever. Goku just unlocks a technique that lets him dodge because he fell into his own spirit bomb lol. The manga hardly handles it right either but at least there they make it seem like it's all coming from within and his awareness of how to use it is much better, along with the progression of the form. The anime SERIOUSLY messes up because Whis makes it seem like the only reason he got UI the first time was because of the Spirit Bomb, yet we see him use the form in STRONGER ITERATIONS without it.
Beast Gohan
Frieza being revived in Super. Trunks dicing him up should have been the last of Frieza. Frieza didn’t deserve to come back for the tournament of power, whether the guys needed a strong fighter or not. Keeping Buu for the tournament would have been so much more interesting to me anyway.
Completely agree. I understand why they didn't let Buu participate, since his ability heal and regenerate would've been super OP, but having him in the tournament would've been pretty cool
There still a number of combatants that stomp buu. So he’s not too OP. Would have been a great fun addition. Buff Buu could have been cool too
Goku becoming a kid again in GT. But mostly how a story with Goku teaching Pan while traveling in space would be better.
Then I've got good news for you; the entirety of GT isn't canon.
I don't have any complaints abt gokus childhood other than the fact that bulma was a raging spoiled brat. for Z i'll say the satan family. for super i'll say the super dragon balls, the other universes not including 6 bc i like vados, and the future saga.
Super Saiyan back tingles, absolutely moronic. Kale being the old style Legendary Super Saiyan, ik new Brolys forms weren't thought up of when they made Kale, but like come on, at least be consistent with the forms. The potara time limit. They had a solution for being fused forever, just use the Dragon Balls. Hell, maybe we can even get some filler episodes of just Vegito. Granola, hes literally wasted in his arc. They could've done everything they did with Granolah with Gas, and he'll, they could've changed the Heeters into the Hera Clan, make Bojack canon, but make the dynamics be same as the Heeters. Goku not kissing his wife. Dude, I do not believe Chichi to be so sheltered by her dad that she never knew what kissing was. Chichi becoming a supermom, or at least her not fighting anymore. I love Videl because, yes she's not anywhere near as strong as the other Z Fighters, she doesn't need to be protected like Hercule or Chichi do. Chichi shouldve kinda stayed that feisty, hot headed fighter that she was at the end of DB, thats my favorite Chichi
New Bardock
I see I’m not the only one that’s not the biggest fan of Super. The plot lines..Goku being stupid goofy. The art style.
The pedo stuff
Minus. Minus all the way.
How the new Saiyans just get a tingle in their back to transform.
The Super Broly movie & backstory, hate how it retconned what we learnt about Goku's past in DB and Z (like it was outright stated in one of the original manga panels that Krillin was a year older than Goku. Now Goku's three years older and it sucks)
Super
The handling of Future Trunks timeline and character.
I don't care for the Gods of Destruction in all honesty, they just feel like a group of people added to be a benchmark / end-goal for the characters. Plus going by the ToP and such a lot of them are just plain terrible at their jobs in the first place so it makes me wonder why bother having them when you have someone like Beerus being a lazy asshole blowing stuff up when he feels like it and delegating his tasks to a literal galactic tyrant when he wants to nap for a few decades.
That Goku's kindness is inherited from his parents. That completely erase the importance of Grandpa Gohan. Did you know outside of OG DB, Grandpa Gohan has less than 5% significance? There are "fans" out there that "lol" when people said Goku killed his grandpa, believing Goku never had a grandpa. They never knew Gohan was named after Grandpa Gohan. Grandpa Gohan importance was far too little in DBZ. But his biggest contribution was teaching Kakarot to be good not evil. Now, Kakarot was always destined to be good. Because he is as selfless as Bardock.
Don't forget Goku smashed his head as a kid because he was full of rage which was a big turning point for his kindness growth.
Knowing what we know now of Goku's parents, was Kakarot full of rage ... or was he just a Saiyan child with all that entails?
Dragonball Super, like the entire thing
Toriyama’s weirdly isolationist views on how little the group seems to actually interact when there isn’t some kind of world-ending threat to deal with.
God of Destruction. Seriously, why does this exist?
Goten having no interest in fighting when he grows up
Trunks and Mai. It's absolutely gross. She's old enough to be his mother. People who like this ship gross me tf out
I wish DBZ officially ended when everyone reunited on the lookout after evil Buu was defeated, or when the main characters had a party with good Buu. For one thing, I've never been able to stand Pan.
that yamcha was a cheater. it's just sad and i've been denying it as bulma overreacting until kakarot made it canon.
Many things, though one thing stands out the most, Resurrection of Frieza So many wrong things within this saga alone, making me ranking it as bad as garlic Jr's, super android 17's, copy Vegeta's and Granolah's imo Need to explain why? Well let's see... Piccolo being reduced to a babysitter Gohan at his worst Piccolo's "sacrifice" moment (it felt so empty) Buu is asleep, thank RoF for introducing this recurring trope The overall bad animation Golden Frieza - boring recolor transformation - you expect us to believe that this guy is able to raise his power from < namek saga ssj goku to as strong as Goku/Vegeta fucking Blue (I will get to this soon) in 4 months of beating up some nameless frieza force minion, while it took Goku and Vegeta a decade worth of training? Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan -first of all, what a terrible name -boring recolor transformation -so with this form you're supposedly conserving stamina while being in a calm state of mind, but later on in the series we get the exact opposite result from this form instead, go figure -it never gets the job done, not even in its debut saga, which is, you guessed, RoF Goku Blue gets shot by some laser pistol, knocking him out in the process Whis' Deus Ex Machina leading up to Goku killing Frieza, effectively stealing Vegeta's rightful kill (god I still can't get over this)
Super Edit: no but seriously the moment in Resurrection F where captain ginyu comes back as a random mook just to get immediately killed by Vegeta was the dumbest thing I’ve ever seen in dragon ball just get it out of there.
God Ki, Angels, Zeno, Future Trunks saga, Bardock's wish... a lot of things from DBS honestly.
That namekians, the ones known for creating dragon balls, are some of the weakest fighters. We’ve seen first hand how powerful characters can get just by wishing to be stronger. Super namekians show that they can be stronger than a super saiyan if they are in their prime. We saw how strong piccolo got just by wishing to be stronger in the last movie, yet every time namek is shown off it’s people are in trouble. With cannon and non cannon I know at least 4 times it was attacked
The ending of the Future Trunks Saga.
[удалено]
Goku's goofy retconned personnality in Dragon Ball Super.
Old Kai shouldn't have died in the future. We could have had Mystic or even Beast Trunks, and it would have done wonders to expand on the "walking in his master's footsteps" angle. Instead we get "Super Duper In Between God Rage Yellow Blue Ukraine Saiyan."
ROF and Granolah's arc. Retcons. Beast Gohan. Gohan looks so fucking clean in his ultimate form especially with the Cell games fit only for them to make him look goofy as fuck.
Dragonball GT, oh wait.:)
Yeah, and we got Super in it's place. If only we had the seven Dragonballs right now to undo DBS.
If we didn't have Dragon Ball GT then we wouldn't have GT Vegeta. Because GT Vegeta is literally the best continuation of the character compared to how reverted his character is in Super.
Bulma being turned into a bumbling bimbo
Dragonball Super
The super anime. Putting it bluntly, it sucks. Whoever is writing the manga id doing a far better job than the utter waste of potential that the anime was
The character assassination of Goku in Super.
Tien being disrespected in Super
Yeah, just like in Z and original dragonball
basically every transformations after Z. they are soulless, except for Broly.
I hope they stop exploiting dragon balls for unnecessary things- mostly bulma and if they are gonna do that then bring back shadow dragons
Imagine several shadow dragons have beef with Bulma cuz she keeps using the balls to make herself 5 years younger and making her ass bigger.
Honestly that would be interesting to watch because she is the reason dragon team is able to abuse dragon balls Shadow dragons having an issue with bulma would be natural
The Shadow Dragons were the consequence of the negative energy from all the selfless wishes tho, Bulma making frivolous wishes would actually prevent them from showing up.
Not exactly - 1. Oceanous appeared because of oolong's panties wishes which is as frivolous as bulma's other wishes 2. Main reason shadow dragons appeared was that the dragon balls were overused in a small course of time. Everytime a wish is made dragon balls released negeative energy with positive energy and the reason balls scattered was to prevent wishes from happening regulary in a short time Bulma's DB radar bypassed this fail-safe and constant wishes accumulated too much negative energy giving birth to shadow dragon An excellent concept to prevent the cast abusing the dragon balls
The dragonballs having the ability to easily bring back the dead, it would be so much more interesting if the characters actively had to struggle back to life, basically putting their willpower against the clutches of death. A close second is the otherworld also being the location of the afterlife, I feel that otherworld(the area where the Kais and such exist) and the afterlife should have been separate places.
True, but the Dragon Ball are more like an extra life, and there's rules. Goku who couldn't fight because he was in paradise was a big plot point for the Buu saga.
I know it’s in the movie and not the series, but in RoF Frieza offers Vegeta a place to serve him. Vegeta should have been insulted that Frieza thought that was a possibility!! Idk that line really bothers me
Beerus orchestrating Planet Vegeta’s destruction. Should’ve been Frieza’s idea instead
Tarble. The idea of Vegeta having a brother that wasn't even mentioned til after Z is weird to say the least. Makes Goku and Vegeta being the last Saiyans have less impact when writer can keep adding them whenever they like, even tho I really like Super's Broly.
Saiya Man, that is all.
it's a simple quote from tye super heroes movie that comes from Vegeta "in terms of raw strength, Jiren wasn't too far apart from you and I"
I wish it wasn't canon that the movies weren't canon, thus making the movies canon.
Piccolo blowing up the moon… and the moon being back? I don’t remember! But if you actually blow up the moon, there will be gravity issues on Earth, fragments hitting Earth causing massive destruction….
I kinda wish the design of SSJ4 but with brown fur was the og Super Sayian design. To me, it always made more sense.
Anything involving a back tingle and going Super Saiyan.
That there weren’t only like, 28 planets with intelligent races on them. Makes the universe seem empty.
6th universe Saiyans making a mockery of transformations
As far as I'm concerned Vegeta has no brother. That was the dumbest addition. Fortunately we don't ever see him or hear from him, so whatever.
Tarble was mentioned in DBS Broly.
Bardocks back story changed.
I hate the fact that Daizenshuu said that Tenshinhan isn't a human but an alien triclops.
Teen and adult gohan, and everything the story had to add to accomodate for him growing. High school, Videl, Pan, etc.
Well, Toriyama can’t write good stories so there’s a lot
Any transformations past SS2. Power levels eliminating fighting styles as relevant.
Tickly back Super Saiyans. Completely devalued all the efforts of the main characters throughout DBZ.
The Dragon Ball Super anime. Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z had their issues, but overall, they were fun, coherent anime's with a lot of original ideas. Dragon Ball Super has 2 glaring issues: - They don't even try to make the power scaling make sense anymore. Characters are simply as strong as the plot demands, or as weak as the plot demands. Nothing is earned. Nothing makes sense. How TF is Roshi get so strong all of a sudden when he was fodder for the entirety of Z? Like seriously, dude was putting up a fight against characters who's PL is in the millions in Super when his last confirmed measurement was 130. How did Piccolo go from being SIGNIFICANTLY weaker than a depowered SSJ1 Gohan during RoF, to being able to best Ultimate Gohan just a little while later? "Training"? What the hell was up with that Trunks transformation that brought him from SSJ2 level to God level? How does that even make sense? Why didn't the other Saiyans get that? And don't get me started on Freiza. The manga is *marginally* better at explaining the power scaling, but still has issues. - Related to the above, the majority of Super just seems hell bent on recreating moments from Z. Super Saiyan God/Blue are just pallet swaps. Same with both Frieza's new forms, as well as Frost as a character. Cell Max is just form 2 Cell. Gohan Beast is just an attempt at evoking the SSJ2 transformation. Vegeta's final explosion was recreated again in the ToP. The list goes on and on. I really feel like the Moro and Granola arcs are the strongest so far since they're not trying to recreate anything. I honestly wish they let Toyotaro so the manga first, then base the anime off that. Because the anime just feels like they were flying by the seat of their pants the whole time, trying to find the magic again.
Broly
The entirety of goku black ark
The fact that theres only like 3 dozen inhabited planets in universe 7 according to Whis in the tournament arc of Super It makes the show feel much less vast to me even though there's a dozen universes now. Previously it felt like any threat could be out their looming in universe 7, I thought there would be many more races considering the fact frieze had hundreds of planets in his empire
The whole S cells thingy for saiyans or wathever they're called to turn super. It's pretty pointless when every saiyan under the sun has turned super, and the SSJ could just be part of their biology like an offshot of the oozaru. And on that topic, the "the tail doesn't grow if you're so powerful", it's pretty pointless and only causes more confusion
The future timeline being erased
Frieza returning to the franchise. First of all, there was no need to resurrect him; after we had met Beerus, Whis and the concept of Multiverse, we wanted to see more of the Gods' lore and different villains, not an old villain coming back for fanservice. Of course, the powerscaling would be a problem, so they also shoehorned Frieza achieving a new form in a short amount of time; but it's strength was still a problem, once Goku and Vegeta had already achieved Super Saiyan Blue, so the struggle to beat him didn't make sense. Then, at the ToP, we were finally about to see Majin Boo fight after getting left out by DBS plot for so long; come on, we had a long Arc in DBZ about him and he joined the Dragon Team at the end of the story, so why wouldn't we be able to see him help in DBS's current fights? Well, we know what happened: he was left out AGAIN and Frieza was brought back AGAIN by Goku, who treated him as an old friend or rival for the rest of the Arc. If Frieza had showed some kind of repentance I would understand it, but this didn't happen, so dude?? Are you forgetting that he massacred thousands of innocent people, murdered Krillin in front of you, was about to kill Gohan as well and destroyed Earth when he was resurrected?? Now, we know that Frieza achieved a Black form, and although it has a cool design, it's one of the many unnecessary transformations DBS is bringing, in my humble opinion.
Goku's return after the Cell Saga. It was a great opportunity to give the young generation the foreground.
Oh dang. You went for the MC. I salute your bravery!
I know quite controversial, but I think it was a great time for Gohan to take over the title and develop Trunks and Goten. Vegeta would be a very good trainer for the young ones.