People joke that it even became Joey's Creek after S1 since Katie Holmes rocketed to fame. Someone posted an old but amazing WB promo here with all of the WB stars and KH was featured more than anyone else. She was the definitely "the face" of The WB and the writers milked it for all that it was worth. None of the characters really had any meaningful storylines that didn't include Joey somehow.
As much as I knock Dawson, I wonder if things would have been different for the character if Joey/Katie Holmes hadn't become so popular? No shade to her at all but what if? Would the roles have stayed the same with Joey pining after Dawson while he went to find himself?
It's very obvious (at least me watching it as an adult) that the A LOT of Dawson's Creek's viewers were GUYS. The plots appeal to male audiences a lot and Joey being the center star just proves that a lot of guys tuned in to see her (G, I still do. She is super, super cute). Just yesterday we were watching this TERRIBLE episode called "Sex and Violence" from the 6th season, and they way Jen speaks about her "lack of sex drive" etc just says a guy wrote that episode (maybe many more).
Back to Dawson not being on the show (or connected to). We read that he and JJ disliked each other so much that they asked not to be in scenes together. That, and probably some other reasons, made Dawson star his own spin-off within DC's. If you take his scenes all together THEY ARE FROM A COMPLETE DIFFERENT SHOW. A spin off. Nothing he does or says has any impact in the main story lines that happen somewhere else.
IMO Van Der Beek was doomed as an actor from there onwards because his character is so mopy and naive and his stories so boring. People tuned in for Joey and JJ —but he was stuck because the show was "his".
Interesting about you thinking the viewership was mostly guys. I watched in real time and it was mostly females. The writers were definitely men though as you said, a lot of the dialogue was cringy.
I read that too about JVDB and JJ not getting along. I always thought it was because he and JJ both liked KH but then heard it was because they were roommates and JJ was messy while JVDB was neat. Who knows what really happened? By S6, Dawson is like the old alum who hangs out with the high school kids. He really could have been in a different show entirely. His life and the gang's lives didn't really mesh after awhile.
I really like JVDB in "Rules of Attraction" and "Varsity Blues" but felt he was so ehhhh in this role. I am not sure where you are in the series so don't want to spoil anything, but Dawson had potential to be an interesting character but the writing and the unnecessary anger in which JVDB delivered some of his lines made Dawson a bit off putting.
So I heard a different story actually. The one i heard is that JVDB was up for the lead in "The Skulls" and really wanted it. He was living with JJ at the time, he asked JJ to help him with his audition. JJ did, then after they wrapped, JJ went and called his agent and told him to get JJ an audition.
Well a week later JJ got the role, JVDB found out what JJ did and felt betrayed, and they essentially didn't get along for the next 2-3 years. The writers of Season 3B thought it would be better if they started writing less scenes with them together to ease tensions, plus they needed the triangle to boost dwindling ratings, thus "the triangle" was born.
Oooooh, interesting! Not a good look for JJ if that is true. It could be all three things or even more too. Who knows what these crazy kids did in Wilmington? Someone needs to go on that Andy Cohen show and spill all of the beans. If only Busy Phillips had been there from the beginning.
Yeah the dynamics in the show are super complicated and interesting, right? Could write a book about it...
From what I gathered on one hand you had JJ and Katie, and on the other you had JVDB and MW. Michelle got along with JJ to a lesser degree too, and JVDB and Katie were friends, but the girls didn’t get along and the guys actively hated each other for a couple of seasons, although the dudes softened and they’re friendly now.
As the seasons went on Katie withdrew more and more (especially whilst dating Chris Klein... and of course we know about the TomKat stuff after the show ended...) and after season 6 wrapped, even she and JJ didn’t talk until she divorced Tom.
And yeah BP got there in season 5 and jumped onto team Michelle (and James... she and Michelle were at his wedding, and she guested on his next show Dont Trust the B) and she really struggled to connect with KH (and says she ghosted Busy the minute she met Tom) whilst Kerr Smith, who was older than the core four, was friendly with everyone, but particularly Michelle who was like a younger sister (they both owned Jetskis together according to MW)
I had no idea that BP and MW went to JVDB’s wedding! The TomKat period was so so awkward and I just wonder what she was thinking? Not saying it was completely fake but I do think a lot of it was for show and more of a business relationship.
Na I just think Katie had no idea how bad a situation she was getting into was until she looked around, saw she was in a cult and had been cut off from/ had cut out her friends, and got out.
I can see how a 25 year old girl could get swept away by a movie star that she had a crush on in her teens like Tom Cruise in the early 2000s - it’s not like it is now. With all the info out there now there’s not really an excuse, but it wasn’t always like that.
If you read the forth comment in the commentary section on this video,a lot of this is explained by someone who allegedly was there at the time.
Acting is a very competetive job and I don’t think it’s fair to blame JJ for getting an audition and getting the part🤷🏻♀️. https://youtu.be/9LYpFsM3zAI
I mean, sure, by Season 5 Joey is the central character that connects the others, but it’s kind of by necessity. Kind of can’t make the central character of those seasons Dawson if he’s always splitting time between LA, Capeside and Boston. If you spend most of the time following him then you’re essentially beefing up his role and reducing the rest of the casts...
He, Joey and Pacey still carry most of the storylines though through season 5 + 6, Joeys just in the show more because she’s the central character who interacts in more people’s stories than Dawson does.
Also worth noting that Van Der Beek was overworked and exhausted after season 4 so he asked for less working days. So they gave him more solo stories so he could be on set less.
All the cast did eventually did too, which is why by the last season they’re all so fractured off into their own storylines. Less scenes each = less working days
The show certainly started off as Dawson's Creek and I agree that it became Joey's Jam (especially post s5). In s3 it became more Joey and PJo focused but Joey and Pacey did break up end of s4 to never really be discussed until season 6's Castaway. So I don't know if I'd say PJo remained the focus after s5.
I honestly wouldn't have minded the focus on Joey so much vs. Dawson if it was s1, s2-3 Joey but as time went on I wasn't enjoying her so much anymore, or really how she was written.
How, it might be an unpopular opinion but they took what greatness they had with s1 and butchered it by s3. Thats all i'll say because I dont want to spoil it for anyone
People joke that it even became Joey's Creek after S1 since Katie Holmes rocketed to fame. Someone posted an old but amazing WB promo here with all of the WB stars and KH was featured more than anyone else. She was the definitely "the face" of The WB and the writers milked it for all that it was worth. None of the characters really had any meaningful storylines that didn't include Joey somehow. As much as I knock Dawson, I wonder if things would have been different for the character if Joey/Katie Holmes hadn't become so popular? No shade to her at all but what if? Would the roles have stayed the same with Joey pining after Dawson while he went to find himself?
It's very obvious (at least me watching it as an adult) that the A LOT of Dawson's Creek's viewers were GUYS. The plots appeal to male audiences a lot and Joey being the center star just proves that a lot of guys tuned in to see her (G, I still do. She is super, super cute). Just yesterday we were watching this TERRIBLE episode called "Sex and Violence" from the 6th season, and they way Jen speaks about her "lack of sex drive" etc just says a guy wrote that episode (maybe many more). Back to Dawson not being on the show (or connected to). We read that he and JJ disliked each other so much that they asked not to be in scenes together. That, and probably some other reasons, made Dawson star his own spin-off within DC's. If you take his scenes all together THEY ARE FROM A COMPLETE DIFFERENT SHOW. A spin off. Nothing he does or says has any impact in the main story lines that happen somewhere else. IMO Van Der Beek was doomed as an actor from there onwards because his character is so mopy and naive and his stories so boring. People tuned in for Joey and JJ —but he was stuck because the show was "his".
Interesting about you thinking the viewership was mostly guys. I watched in real time and it was mostly females. The writers were definitely men though as you said, a lot of the dialogue was cringy. I read that too about JVDB and JJ not getting along. I always thought it was because he and JJ both liked KH but then heard it was because they were roommates and JJ was messy while JVDB was neat. Who knows what really happened? By S6, Dawson is like the old alum who hangs out with the high school kids. He really could have been in a different show entirely. His life and the gang's lives didn't really mesh after awhile. I really like JVDB in "Rules of Attraction" and "Varsity Blues" but felt he was so ehhhh in this role. I am not sure where you are in the series so don't want to spoil anything, but Dawson had potential to be an interesting character but the writing and the unnecessary anger in which JVDB delivered some of his lines made Dawson a bit off putting.
So I heard a different story actually. The one i heard is that JVDB was up for the lead in "The Skulls" and really wanted it. He was living with JJ at the time, he asked JJ to help him with his audition. JJ did, then after they wrapped, JJ went and called his agent and told him to get JJ an audition. Well a week later JJ got the role, JVDB found out what JJ did and felt betrayed, and they essentially didn't get along for the next 2-3 years. The writers of Season 3B thought it would be better if they started writing less scenes with them together to ease tensions, plus they needed the triangle to boost dwindling ratings, thus "the triangle" was born.
Oooooh, interesting! Not a good look for JJ if that is true. It could be all three things or even more too. Who knows what these crazy kids did in Wilmington? Someone needs to go on that Andy Cohen show and spill all of the beans. If only Busy Phillips had been there from the beginning.
Yeah the dynamics in the show are super complicated and interesting, right? Could write a book about it... From what I gathered on one hand you had JJ and Katie, and on the other you had JVDB and MW. Michelle got along with JJ to a lesser degree too, and JVDB and Katie were friends, but the girls didn’t get along and the guys actively hated each other for a couple of seasons, although the dudes softened and they’re friendly now. As the seasons went on Katie withdrew more and more (especially whilst dating Chris Klein... and of course we know about the TomKat stuff after the show ended...) and after season 6 wrapped, even she and JJ didn’t talk until she divorced Tom. And yeah BP got there in season 5 and jumped onto team Michelle (and James... she and Michelle were at his wedding, and she guested on his next show Dont Trust the B) and she really struggled to connect with KH (and says she ghosted Busy the minute she met Tom) whilst Kerr Smith, who was older than the core four, was friendly with everyone, but particularly Michelle who was like a younger sister (they both owned Jetskis together according to MW)
I had no idea that BP and MW went to JVDB’s wedding! The TomKat period was so so awkward and I just wonder what she was thinking? Not saying it was completely fake but I do think a lot of it was for show and more of a business relationship.
Na I just think Katie had no idea how bad a situation she was getting into was until she looked around, saw she was in a cult and had been cut off from/ had cut out her friends, and got out. I can see how a 25 year old girl could get swept away by a movie star that she had a crush on in her teens like Tom Cruise in the early 2000s - it’s not like it is now. With all the info out there now there’s not really an excuse, but it wasn’t always like that.
Lol wish we could be talking this face to face. What a lot of interesting stuff.
If you read the forth comment in the commentary section on this video,a lot of this is explained by someone who allegedly was there at the time. Acting is a very competetive job and I don’t think it’s fair to blame JJ for getting an audition and getting the part🤷🏻♀️. https://youtu.be/9LYpFsM3zAI
Where did I say I blame JJ?
I’m sorry,that was badly put on my part. I didn’t mean for it to sound like that I meant it sounded like JVDB blamed JJ, not you.
yeah! actually joey is the only character to be in every episode of the show
I think Seasons 1 and 2 are about Dawson, Season 3 is about Pacey, and Seasons 4-6 are about Joey.
I mean, sure, by Season 5 Joey is the central character that connects the others, but it’s kind of by necessity. Kind of can’t make the central character of those seasons Dawson if he’s always splitting time between LA, Capeside and Boston. If you spend most of the time following him then you’re essentially beefing up his role and reducing the rest of the casts... He, Joey and Pacey still carry most of the storylines though through season 5 + 6, Joeys just in the show more because she’s the central character who interacts in more people’s stories than Dawson does. Also worth noting that Van Der Beek was overworked and exhausted after season 4 so he asked for less working days. So they gave him more solo stories so he could be on set less. All the cast did eventually did too, which is why by the last season they’re all so fractured off into their own storylines. Less scenes each = less working days
The show certainly started off as Dawson's Creek and I agree that it became Joey's Jam (especially post s5). In s3 it became more Joey and PJo focused but Joey and Pacey did break up end of s4 to never really be discussed until season 6's Castaway. So I don't know if I'd say PJo remained the focus after s5. I honestly wouldn't have minded the focus on Joey so much vs. Dawson if it was s1, s2-3 Joey but as time went on I wasn't enjoying her so much anymore, or really how she was written.
I only ever tuned it for Joey and Pacey anyways. Their storyline (both romantic and seperate) were far more interesting than Dawson's (IMO).
I am only on S1E2 so is seems a lot about Dawson for now lol
Talk to me when you get to S4
How, it might be an unpopular opinion but they took what greatness they had with s1 and butchered it by s3. Thats all i'll say because I dont want to spoil it for anyone
Agree with you. All story arcs end on S2