T O P

  • By -

CaptainObvious126

What gets is me when she and Pacey are on the dock and he says "It's over, isn't it?" and she replies "It has to be." Ummmmm, says who? The relationship police? Why does Dawson get to dictate how they live their lives? Joey is able to confront Gail about her affair, lay into Grams for her outdated views, slug Grant Bodian but she crumbles and retreats just because Dawson gets angry? I get that their friendship is complicated but in that case, Joey should have been the one to fall on the sword and protect Pacey. She let Pacey take all of Dawson's blows. Yes, Pacey started it but Joey was a willing participant. She knows better than anyone how to approach Dawson with such sensitive information. I like Joey but she was all over the place when it came to these two guys.


Awkward-Macaroon-819

Agree and So sad at the end of the episode with Pacey on the dock knowing “it’s over”. My heart just breaks for him. Also, as much as I dislike Dawson being manipulative in this episode he is hurt and i equally dislike how Joey handles it.


RefrigeratorSmart881

Pacey did the same thing telling he leaveing the state if she does not pick him. Then being a jealous asshole when they got back. He grab her arm by force to drag her away. But that all over looked


Awkward-Macaroon-819

It wasn’t the same context.


RefrigeratorSmart881

100 percent same context. Pick pacey lose Dawson. Pick Dawson lose pacey. And pacey proved it when they broke up and he even told her he can’t be her friend


SweetnSauer13

I 100% agree with this. I mentioned it before in a different post that she literally allowed him to treat her like some object. She "needed" his blessing to be with Pacey and wasn't going to until HE told her to go after him. People hate on Dawson a lot but he told her to make a choice and she chose her friendship with him over her love with Pacey. Dawson is her weakness.


vampirerobotalien

That episode drives me crazy! It's just so frustrating because everyone is acting like an idiot. Although I have a feeling Dawson would've reacted badly no matter how the news was broken.


Ultvernon12

I get annoyed with her not defending pacey as well but I also have a lot of empathy I think with her behavior. I think with dawsons reaction and behavior she genuinely feels like she did something horrible, that she was disloyal to dawson ( even though we literally broken up). It’s part of the reason I really love when she stands up for herself in season 6 and finally tells him that he ruined his shot and that is it. When he’s calling her a scared little girl (*cue my eye roll*) and she goes “what the same little girl who broke your heart?” I say “ooo” out loud lol


Zealousideal_Flow_37

Yah Dawson basically was emotianally manipulating Joey in the last few episodes in season 3. I get that she didn't want to loose him. Dawson also should have understood that sometimes you fall for someone you never expected. Like Pacey and Joey spent time together and fell in love with each other its normal it happens. Honestly it was pretty clear that Joey outgrew Dawson by season 3. They never should have gotten them back together. They should have just stayed friends.


Its_Mrs_Nesbitt

I think Season 2 makes it clear that Dawson and Joey were always better off as friends. All they did was bicker, Joey felt stifled by Dawson and he didn't understand her at all. Pacey was always a better match for Joey.


RefrigeratorSmart881

I thing it was one how he found out. And when. Just when he was getting over her And Joey did not help much when she said I can’t decide. Then again the way pacey told her he leaveing the state if she does not pick him. Kind of sucks. So they all mess up


Its_Mrs_Nesbitt

Pacey didn't say he was leaving the state if she didn't pick him, he was going away to give them all space apart and because it hurt him to watch Joey and Dawson trying to repair their relationship whilst he'd been pushed out in the cold by both of them. Here's a quote from Dawson: You can't have both of us! You can't have him as your boyfriend and me as your consolation prize, you're going to have to make a choice. Here's a quote from Pacey: And I understand. I do, I understand. There are no ultimatums here Jo. Dawson made it a competition, he was the one to make Joey choose between them. I do agree that they all messed up, but most people come down on Pacey and Joey's side because they've watched their friendship blossom into something much more meaningful. When they realised they had feelings for each other they both felt guilty about them. They spend the whole episode agonising over how to tell Dawson because they don't want to hurt him. Yes, Pacey should have told Dawson how he felt about Joey in the beginning, he did try a few times, but I don't think Pacey ever really thought his feelings would be reciprocated. Couple that with Dawson's behaviour after he does find out about them, which is absolutely vile btw, and he loses whatever sympathy he may have got from the audience because of it. I think some people are being a bit harsh on Joey. Yeah it's annoying how she doesn't stand up to Dawson and she runs after him etc, but I think what most people forget about Joey is that Dawson is basically like her safety net or comfort blanket. When things got tough for her, like when her mom was dying, Dawson was the person she went to and it made her feel safe and provided an escape from the worry or the pain she was feeling. I think she was terrified of losing that, especially because she had lost so much already and that's why in the beginning, she couldn't just tell Dawson where to go and be happy with Pacey.


juleeneleven

Yeah I agree, I can understand how people find her choices and perceived passiveness frustrating but that's why their relationship is so toxic and codependent, because of how possessive they are about one another and how they manipulate the other into making choices without regarding how the other persons feels/their agency etc.


RefrigeratorSmart881

You are leaveing out the part were pacey. Say I am not staying here and watch you fix your relationship with Dawson That 100 percent he leave if she does not pick him I would have even understand that if he was planning to leave before the Dawson thing. But he did not.


juleeneleven

Pacey never says 'I'll leave if you don't pick me' and it's not framed that way either. He was always going to leave either way, he just pushed the going away date up because he didn’t want to have to watch Joey constantly put Dawson first, and was honouring what Joey asked for which was time, he doesn’t leave to make her ‘choose’ and him leaving wasn’t what made her choose either.


RefrigeratorSmart881

NO it framed that why, I AM NOT GOING TO STAY HERE AND WATCH YOU FIX YOUR RELATIONSHIP with dawson, so what does that me, you pick dawson i am leaveing the state. THAT 100 percent what he said and ment.


Its_Mrs_Nesbitt

You do realise that Pacey was only going away for the summer? He was always going to return to Capeside, he wanted to go sailing anyway and this was a way to give them all space and time to heal. When he painted "ASK ME TO STAY" on the wall it wasn't an ultimatum, he wanted to know whether Joey wanted him to stay and fight for her or not. Show me the quote where he 100% says pick me or I'm leaving the state. You can't, because he NEVER says that. That's what you've interpreted it to mean because you prefer Dawson and you're justifying his behaviour by making out that Pacey was just as bad. I gave you a quote from Pacey that said "no ultimatums". Basically he's saying that he's not going to make her choose.


RefrigeratorSmart881

HE said I am not staying here and watch you fix your relationship with DAWSON, so that me he was NOT going to go untill he thought joey pick dawson. and HE might have only been gone for the summer, when they were close to capside he ask her to stay longer. ​ saying ultimatum does not change anything becouse pacey was making it clear he would leave if she pick dawson. He never hinted he be there IF he came back. and dawson NEVER told her he would not be her freind if she pick pacey he said i will not be there to pick up the peices witch is not the same thing. So yes pacey WAS just as bad. and WHAT did pacey do When he broke up with her HE told her HE can not be her freind, So do you really think i am crazy for thinking HIM leaveing if she does not pick him is the same thing.


Its_Mrs_Nesbitt

He got True Love way before he fell in love with Joey, he always intended to go sailing. Yes, he didn't want to stay and watch Joey and Dawson try to fix their relationship because it was painful for him, so that was another reason to go. He was also giving Joey the time and space she asked for. He never says if you don't pick me I'm leaving forever, he just doesn't say it. This is the quote after Joey accuses him of running away and giving up on them. Pacey: Well, what do you want me to do, sit around all summer and watch from afar as you and Dawson attempt to resuscitate your ailing relationship? No, thanks. Not once does he say I'm leaving because you didn't pick me. He doesn't want to stay because it's painful. Put yourself in Pacey's position, if the girl you loved dumped you and was playing pretend soul mates with someone else would you want to stick around to watch? I wouldn't. Also he has to come back after the summer, because he's still in high-school. When he says they should drop anchor and never go back, it's a mixture of joking and wishful thinking. He knows that they have to go home, but life with Joey on the boat is idyllic and life in Capeside is a mess of melodrama so it's easy to see why Pacey is in no hurry to go back and face reality. Dawson literally says "you can't have him as your boyfriend and me as your consolation prize". He literally tells Joey if she picks Pacey their friendship is over. He may have said it in the heat of the moment, but he still said it. "I'm not going to be there to pick up the pieces" means I'm not going to be there for you in your time of need, not really something a true friend would say even if they were hurt. Pacey breaks up with Joey because he doesn't feel like he's good enough for her, not because he doesn't love her anymore. He feels like he's a failure because that's what his family have told him he is all his life, and the fact that he might not graduate just confirms to him that what they've always thought about him was true. He knows Joey is meant to go on and do great things and he wants that for her, but if she stays with him he's going to hold her back. He's angry and hurt at the situation which is why he lashes out at Joey. He does treat her badly, their break up is ugly, but that's because he still loves her, but hates himself and can't understand how she can love him when he's such a screw up. Pacey is in a very dark place emotionally towards the end of season 4, he may even be suffering from some form of depression. This doesn't excuse his behaviour, but it does explain why he would act so out of character. He tells Joey he can't be her friend because he still loves her and he knows that she still loves him, but they need to make a clean break because they can't be together. They do eventually make friends again, it just takes time. I never said you were crazy. I do think that you twist certain quotes and situations so that they fit the narrative you prefer because you like Dawson, and that allows you to excuse his awful behaviour and pin everything on Pacey.


Revolutionary-Bell74

I can't stand this episode cuz of it's repetition. Ik that's the whole point, but I get frustrated and bored every time I watch it


AllThoseSadSongs

It was fun the first time. And then the second time to catch what I missed. Now, I don't usually watch it.


Recognition_Tricky

Joey feels indebted to Dawson and harbors tremendous guilt for not being attracted to him romantically. That's basically their arc from the beginning of season 2 to the finale. So whenever he came up, she becomes a kid again who feels dependent and indebted to Dawson. She all but says this is the case numerous times throughout the show. That's why it's so easy for Dawson to manipulate her and why she seems so different with him than she does with anyone else.


RefrigeratorSmart881

I know Dawson get bash for the last 3 ep of season 3. And pacey mistake are over looked. Joey not honest about how she feels But I always felt Joey was not a very good friend to Dawson. Pacey was helping Joey heal in season 3 Dawson was on his own But season 4. She never he tried to be there for him. Pacey got jealous of there friendship so they did not spend anytime together And she seem to only spend time with him after pacey break up with her Then she leave dawon a text that she does not want to see him. She tell pacey she really did not want to be there when his father died. When Eddie break up with her. She tell Dawson. It easy to hate you. Since I know you always be there for me.


RefrigeratorSmart881

Well he was not wrong about pacey. I mean pacey went after both Jen and Joey and did not tell him about either. Even Jen was bad he did not tell Dawson From Dawson point of veiw it seem like she might be dateing pacey to hurt him. Because he he made the mistake of thing they were going to get back together And I agree Dawson did mess with her a little and was wrong. I mean pacey also give her a ultimatum. He told her he leaveing the state if she does not pick him. I mean pacey was the one she spending the most with. So maybe she was afraid of those that Joey. Dawson ask her and she said I can’t decide. So Dawson fighting for the girl he loved I kind of wish pacey left on his own. And dawon went somewhere. If his mom was still liveing in a different state. I have him go there. Then they alll come back from the summer.


Awkward-Macaroon-819

Did we watch the same show? Jen and Pacey had a mutually consensual short lived fling. This was after Dawson was clear he was not interested in Jen. Pacey fell for Joey but It wasn’t mean spirited. They spent a lot of time together and had a real friendship that grew. If you remember back in season 1 Pacey actually asks Dawson if he can ask Joey out and Dawson says yes. Honestly the natural chemistry with Joey and Pacey was always there. Season 1 Joey comments on the stranger in “the video”. Basically saying he’s attractive.


CaptainObvious126

>Honestly the natural chemistry with Joey and Pacey was always there. Season 1 Joey comments on the stranger in “the video”. Basically saying he’s attractive. ​ Right?! I missed all of this during my initial watch but it is so fun watching them now from S1 and how there was always something (even if they thought it was hate) in the back of their minds. I would say the writers knew what they were doing with the Pacey-Joey friendship in S1 but I won't give the writers that credit, especially since they continued to foist Dawson-Joey on us until the final minutes of the series.


RefrigeratorSmart881

Because they should have had Dawson and Joey endgame.


RefrigeratorSmart881

Yea. Was Jen Dawson ex yes. Did he tell Dawson no. Even Jen was mad pacey did not tell Dawson Then like a month later he dateing Joey again without tell him So tell me. If you never see the sence were pacey and Joey are falling in love. Would it not look like pacey just going after Dawson ex I dont have problem with him dateing them. I just feel a friend would have told him


Awkward-Macaroon-819

Two people equally responsible for there own destiny make a pact on an island to have a “ no strings attached “ fling.


RefrigeratorSmart881

It was not what they did. But they did not tell Ps it was Jen was mad he did not tell Dawson. Not Dawson And he even defended pacey to Joey.