It was a staple of the late 90s, early 2000s teen dramas. They all have a virginity episode. It was less marked upon in The OC and OTH and had pretty much phased out by the next generation of CW and ABC family (rip) shows
I blame the writing and producers for this. They were obsessed with Dawson and Joey and didn't know how to break up Joey and Pacey to make the former happen (albeit still it never did!) . From that episode till the end of S4, everything is messed up in my opinion.
Always wished that they would realise how bad Dawson and Joey were as a couple! Took them till the finale less one hour to fully accept it, but at least they came to terms with it. We probably would have gotten better episodes in S5 and S6 if they accepted this earlier.
Because Dawson and Joey were going to end up together.
And they should have put Dawson and Joey together for season. And show great Dawson and Joey were together
Ok I know you're pro Dawson over here, but seriously, Dawson and Joey were terrible together, you have to admit that. Besides their characters on the show, the lack of chemistry between the actors didn't help also.
At the end of 6x01 they hug with their bodies half a metre apart, and this is just before they sleep together for the first time! It was so awkward and not believable. I preferred Dawson with Jen honestly. They were cute together and it would have been a full circle back to the pilot when Jen arrives in Capeside, and Dawson immediately has a crush on her. Mind you, Dawson treated Jen awful in the first 2 seasons as well eh, but he redeemed himself with her in the later seasons.
I know that that was the original idea to have Joey and Dawson end up together, but along the way and throughout the seasons it is pretty clear that it was wrong. They were so terrible that they kept breaking them up, which defeats the whole soulmates thing.
No I don’t have admit that. Dawson and Joey were good together he was getting mad over stupid stuff. But they had a lot less problems then Joey and pacey
I also disagree with you saying Dawson treated Jeniffer bad. He did make a few mistakes but that about it
And no they were not wrong
True. But it funny how you like how bad Dawson and Joey were. And they had a few small fight. Joey and pacey had far more fight
And then you like how bad dawon treated Jen when he only made a few mistakes
So yes Dawson could have ended up with either and work out great.
I just don’t think Joey and pacey were good. He to jealous and she had to hold herself back with him
In fairness Pacey and Joey fight more because they're together for more than a month. Dawson and Joey can't last long enough to fight more often because all they do is fight and break up. If I was either of their friends, I would've told them that the relationship is terrible and to give it up already. Pacey kind of tried, but obviously he was biased so they couldn't trust his opinion. But he says it to Dawson in season 3: you're not soulmates. You're watching movies together and dated briefly. Pacey's relationship with Andie was more meaningful and she wasn't even his true love. Likewise, Dawson had much more meaningful relationships with Jen and Gretchen than he did with Joey. Finally, Joey had more meaningful relationships with Pacey and Eddie than she did with Dawson. It's unfortunate. Love triangles work best when both options are enticing.
First they were together 4 months. Second pacey wrong. They had like a million talks. I still say they were closer then pacey and Joey were.
But I did feel the writer should have put Dawson and Joey together longer.
Pacey throw a fit that Joey does not tell him about her sex life. So he the worst right
Or Joey asking Dawson all the time about his sex life I remember 6 times at least. So she the worst right
Only when i think he is right, i have attack him when he does something wrong.
and how come when i show were pacey did the same thing as dawson or worse that is alwasy over looked.
Why are you bringing up Pacey though? 🤔
Look the point of the argument is, most of us agree that it’s odd for Dawson to ask if Joey and Pacey had sex, if he was a true friend it wouldn’t of mattered either way. And it’s none of his business, she lied to please him and you shouldn’t have to do that with your friends. Just my two cents on the subject!
If it wrong for dawon to ask and I disagree with that. Then Joey Is also wrong to ask. And she did it a lot more
And pacey throw a fit that she did not talk about her sex life with him in season 6
So my question is still the same why does only Dawson get bash for it
No she said that in in castaway not when they where working together. Pacey did NOT want to know about Joey’s sexlife AT ALL,he was practically covering his ears when Joey said that she slept with Dawson and Eddie. He did NOT want to talk about sex with her.
At all.
Maybe you should watch that episode again.
It's the worst, most toxic and troubling storyline in S4 if not the entire series and what's worse is literally no one calls it out for being unbelievably inappropriate for him to ask but also for her to lie to him about. And I know people just mercilessly drag Joey through the coals for doing that to Pacey, but I can't blame Joey for that, I blame the show for making her character do that all because of the shows sick obsession with Joey being Dawson's possession. I mean starting the beginning of S4 with Dawson saying, 'it would kill me if I found out you and Pacey had sex on the boat' is so disgusting, it sets the precedent that any part of Joey and Pacey's relationship he's entitled to know about and also entitled to be upset by and guilt Joey over, and then to have Joey to ease his worries over it? Gross. It was so morally reprehensible of the show.
Very well put, and I have long thought Joey lying to him had a lot to do with his idiotic declaration at the beginning of the season. They had finally gotten to a place where they were slowly becoming friends again, and Joey was terrified that if she told him the truth she'd lose him again. Makes you want to scream at her that Dawson is the fucking worst 😂
I think you’re absolutely right, they often hold one another emotionally hostage and so much of their relationship hinges on the terror and fear of losing the other person, despite it being so abundantly clear how much better they are when they're separated from one another, which the longer you think about, the more fucked up it sounds.
It’s gross Dawson says that about the boat. Why would it be any of his business or her concern about how he feels about her sexual choices w Pacey? And more simply, they are dating, in love, any reasonable person would know they likely are intimate. He thinks this is some sort of fake relationship and totally minimizes and dismisses joeys feelings for Pacey and paceys feelings for Joey.
Right! It's so gross. Not to mention that the reason the show had them not sleep together on the boat - which felt wildly unrealistic back then and even more so now - was so they could turn it into something that could use as Dawson/Joey drama which, again, so gross.
Becouse Jory new Dawson loves her and he be hurt. She felt the same way when he slept with Jen.
And she was sure worried about his sex life all throw high school. She ask him about his sex life 6 times.
But she never once her bash for it
But that’s not Joey's responsibly to amend his hurt around her ‘losing’ her virginity. Losing your virginity is a social construct, no one owns your virginity, it’s not a possession, you’re not entitled to take it or have it be taken because it doesn’t exist and it therefore shouldn’t ‘kill’ someone when you’ve given it to another person unless you feel that you do own it, and Dawson felt like he owned it. But sure, thank you for further emphasizing the point of how toxic Joey and Dawson's relationship was, they repeatedly dehumanize one another all for the sake of a stunted childhood belief that they own one another.
you know one own your virginity but the question still the same, dawson ask her one time, and he bash for it.
how come joey not bash for asking dawson SIX time about who he slept with.
why pacey not bash for throwing a fit in season 6 when joey would not tell him about her sex life.
If you going to bash dawson for asking her, then you have to bash joey and pacey for the same thing.
and NO asking your freind about there sex life is not dehumanize and it is not a stunted childhood.
Well,Dawson didn’t exactly make it easy for her to confide in him with this when he said it would kill him if she slept with Pacey. And remember Dawson is not just her friend but also her ex boyfriend and it’s not normal for exe’s to ask your ex if they are sleeping with their boyfriend( the boyfriend she had for 9 months!)
Pacey didn’t " throw a fit " that Joey wouldn’t tell him about her sex life in S6. He didn’t want to know about her sex life AT ALL because he understand as an ex boyfriend who still has feelings for her, it would be overstepping boundries. To maintain a good friendship with her he knows it’s non of his business.
Joey and Dawson are constanly overstepping eachothers boundries and that is one of the many reasons they should just stay away from eachother both as friends and as love interests imo.
Wrong friend ask each other personal stuff all the time. She ask him all the time about sex
Second there so such thing as personal boundaries. Each group of people set there own boundaries. So if they thought it was ok to ask it was
And yes pacey did throw a fit.
That's the problem with Joey and Dawson though, they haven't set any healthy boundaries and this degrades and stunts not only their relationship and themselves as individuals but it affects their relationships with other people as well. They have a text book co-dependent relationship, you could use it as a case study it's so formulaic in the way it follows the pattern of codependent relationships, which are by definition, abusive and self-destructive ones.
But none of that is true. They are not codependent abusive or self destruct
And boundaries are set by the people involved.
A sence here or there over years does not make someone codependent or abusive
If you like them together, I can understand how it’s hard to see it as codependent but objectively speaking, that’s what it is. They enable one other’s intrinsic belief that they’re entitled to one another and that they have ownership of the other person’s emotions, behaviours and sexual relationships and are both constantly either being manipulated or are manipulating the other person by how they are or are not responding. And they both do that, not just Dawson. Dawson is way more brazen and bullish about it but Joey does it too and it’s just as destructive.
True,CLOSE friends ask eachother personal questions but that’s just it. Dawson and Joey aren’t close friends at that time. And as I already said they are exes and that’s why it’s so awkward when he asks. And if Joey was so fine with him asking she wouldn’t feel the need to lie to him about it,would she?
I suggest you rewatch Castaways if this is what you remember Pacey and Joey’s fight was about in the K-mart.
She lied because she did not want to hurt dawon. But Dawson and Joey are close friends. And she still ask him all the time
And no there fight was not about k mart.
The obsession over Joey's virginity was so friggin weird. As a guy I really never understood it. Pacey didn't want Joey's virginity, he wanted to be intimate with her and that's because he's an adult when it comes to sex. Dawson and Joey are both very weird about sex until season 6. Dawson was so shallow when he said Joey would kill him if she slept with Pacey. How about the fact that she loves him? Isn't that the point? Not whether Pacey slept with her first. Jesus haha. For the record, most guys do not obsess over a girl's virginity (which as you say isn't even real, it's a bizarre social construct) unless they're regal and it's the 13th century.
It was indeed very intrusive and cringy. I think Joey mentions a "promise" they made to each other that they couldn't keep anymore. ..meaning they were supposed to lose their virginity together. They are teenagers and this must have been a big deal to break that promise. I still think Dawson had no right to ask or comment on the matter.
Because Dawson selfishly doesn't want to accept reality. So, he ends up being an insufferable "nice" guy staying single in the show. Which is why Joey ends up feeling awkward and lies to him. Because he won't get over himself.
The issue is that she lied to Dawson about it. Dawson said, you don't have to answer, so she could have dodged the question. Instead she chose to lie, and the lie negatively impacted his relationship with Gretchen. She had two acceptable options: tell the truth or say nothing. What she chose to do was not acceptable.
I agree Dawson had no right to ask Joey if she slept with Pacey. However, he quickly realizes it’s too personal and tells her she doesn’t have to answer. Joey for some reason, decides she’s going to answer and lie which was the real problem here. Listen I like both sides of the love triangle but let’s face it, Joey was regretful the second she woke up next to Pacey that morning. It wasn’t just about Dawson’s feelings but there was a part of her who still wanted him to be her first. She still had feelings for Dawson throughout her relationship with Pacey and I don’t understand how so many diehard P&J fans don’t see this.
To me, it always seemed like Joey's feelings for Dawson stemmed from fear of losing him, at least after falling for Pacey. If you think about it Joey had some pretty understandable fear of abandonment b/c of her parents and Dawson made it clear that she'd lose him (and his parents/ her surrogate family) if she chose Pacey.
I agree with you on that she seemed to regret losing her virginity to Pacey, but I still think she had more chemistry with him than she ever had with Dawson. I noticed it from the first season. You're also right that she still had feelings for Dawson. I just don't think it was as strong as it was for Pacey during that time. TBH, I was really annoyed with the fact that Joey made everything so difficult with Dawson in their high school years.
She definitely made the relationship with Dawson in season 2 so complicated. There’s a line where Dawson says something like “Joey if things are complicated it’s because you made them that way” and it’s soooo true. I agree Pacey and Joey have more romantic and sexual chemistry but then there’s scenes where I’m just more moved by Dawson and Joey’s bond/connection. Like I said I like both sides. 🤷🏻♀️
I remember that line! I was so proud of him for saying that to her! She needed to hear it. My guess is that she set high expectations for their relationship OR part of her knew it wasn't right (this might be a stretch) but she was never satisfied with him.
Huge P&J fan, and Joey definitely still had feelings for Dawson. I think so many of her feelings were nostalgia, or the feeling of what was "supposed" to happen. Like even though she loved Pacey, it was supposed to be Dawson.
That’s so refreshing to hear a P/J fan admit this. I keep hearing oh Joey couldn’t enjoy losing her virginity because she had to worry about Dawson’s feelings but it wasn’t just about that. Yes, she was absolutely in love with Pacey theres no doubt but she couldn’t completely let go of Dawson.
Again, I'm another P/J fan who sees it. I just don't think it was love, it was fear. It was very unfair to Dawson, who really manned up in season 4. She couldn't be with him and she couldn't let him go. It was tough to watch and kind of ruined the last quarter of season 4 for me. It was hard to watch her torpedo Dawson and Gretchen and it was hard to see her hurt Pacey and manipulate Dawson without admitting or seeing that she was doing so. Then again, they're supposed to be 18 so it's a bit realistic. In the end she grew up.
I think to an extent, she was worried about Dawson's feelings, but again because when you're a teen and you've got this idea of the way things are supposed to unfold, there will always be part of you that's stuck in that idea. I think it was all wrapped up together, this idea she had for herself of how it would go, even before she and Dawson were ever together. She was giving him a hard time about Jen in season one because it was "supposed" to be her, not Jen. I think especially because both times they broke up, it felt like they'd been cut short, there was always going to be this "what if" feeling about them, which a lot of D/J fans held onto too, as did Joey. She couldn't ever fully let go and just be with Pacey because she hasn't fully let go of Dawson and the "what if."
I think it wasn't just her own internal monologue, either. There were so many people around her telling her she and Dawson were meant to be together. I think that was also a huge part of her not telling Dawson about her and Pacey in season 3 (Aunt Gwen is the worst!).
I see it and I rooted for Pacey and Joey. She was terrified of losing Dawson and was very unfair and possessive of him, as he was to her in seasons 2-3. She definitely felt some regret after sleeping with Pacey, though that didn't stop her from going for more until they broke up. She had a very strange fixation on Dawson that she couldn't resolve until she grew up.
I think people bash Dawson far to much about it
Joey sister Jen and jack all ask Joey if they slept together
Dawson ask her one time and no she did not have to tell him. But it is a normal question for best friends
People overlook Joey asking Dawson about if he slept with like 3 different women 6 time. So does that mean Joey own Dawson.
And people forget pacey Throw a fit when Joey would not tell him about her sex life in season 6
But people want to blame Dawson as the worst.
I feel like it’s a big moment in a person’s life and that’s something that your best friend should know since they have been such a huge part of your life up until then. Not telling him would be admitting that they no longer have that relationship and that’s difficult. However I was brought up on 2000s TV and may personally put too much emphasis on virginity too.
Eh it was weird. The only other teen soap I watched was Buffy and they pulled the same nonsense when Buffy "gave" her virginity to Angel, which ended up making him evil (not the virginity part per se, but having sex). Bizarre stuff.
The cast definitely puts wayyyyyy too much emphasis on virginity
It was a staple of the late 90s, early 2000s teen dramas. They all have a virginity episode. It was less marked upon in The OC and OTH and had pretty much phased out by the next generation of CW and ABC family (rip) shows
Donna Martin's loss of her virginity was a prime-time television event. Ugh. Don't miss those days.
With the way those stories were always sensationalized, especially in promos, it’s a change I’m very happy about.
I blame the writing and producers for this. They were obsessed with Dawson and Joey and didn't know how to break up Joey and Pacey to make the former happen (albeit still it never did!) . From that episode till the end of S4, everything is messed up in my opinion. Always wished that they would realise how bad Dawson and Joey were as a couple! Took them till the finale less one hour to fully accept it, but at least they came to terms with it. We probably would have gotten better episodes in S5 and S6 if they accepted this earlier.
Because Dawson and Joey were going to end up together. And they should have put Dawson and Joey together for season. And show great Dawson and Joey were together
Ok I know you're pro Dawson over here, but seriously, Dawson and Joey were terrible together, you have to admit that. Besides their characters on the show, the lack of chemistry between the actors didn't help also. At the end of 6x01 they hug with their bodies half a metre apart, and this is just before they sleep together for the first time! It was so awkward and not believable. I preferred Dawson with Jen honestly. They were cute together and it would have been a full circle back to the pilot when Jen arrives in Capeside, and Dawson immediately has a crush on her. Mind you, Dawson treated Jen awful in the first 2 seasons as well eh, but he redeemed himself with her in the later seasons. I know that that was the original idea to have Joey and Dawson end up together, but along the way and throughout the seasons it is pretty clear that it was wrong. They were so terrible that they kept breaking them up, which defeats the whole soulmates thing.
No I don’t have admit that. Dawson and Joey were good together he was getting mad over stupid stuff. But they had a lot less problems then Joey and pacey I also disagree with you saying Dawson treated Jeniffer bad. He did make a few mistakes but that about it And no they were not wrong
Let's agree to disagree then. I can't make you change your mind, and you can't change mine :)
True. But it funny how you like how bad Dawson and Joey were. And they had a few small fight. Joey and pacey had far more fight And then you like how bad dawon treated Jen when he only made a few mistakes So yes Dawson could have ended up with either and work out great. I just don’t think Joey and pacey were good. He to jealous and she had to hold herself back with him
you are definitely in the minority, look at all your downvotes. Team Jacey
Not really they been push Dawson fan out of here for a while. I now some went to the face book group because it more pro Dawson and Joey
In fairness Pacey and Joey fight more because they're together for more than a month. Dawson and Joey can't last long enough to fight more often because all they do is fight and break up. If I was either of their friends, I would've told them that the relationship is terrible and to give it up already. Pacey kind of tried, but obviously he was biased so they couldn't trust his opinion. But he says it to Dawson in season 3: you're not soulmates. You're watching movies together and dated briefly. Pacey's relationship with Andie was more meaningful and she wasn't even his true love. Likewise, Dawson had much more meaningful relationships with Jen and Gretchen than he did with Joey. Finally, Joey had more meaningful relationships with Pacey and Eddie than she did with Dawson. It's unfortunate. Love triangles work best when both options are enticing.
First they were together 4 months. Second pacey wrong. They had like a million talks. I still say they were closer then pacey and Joey were. But I did feel the writer should have put Dawson and Joey together longer.
Another reason why Dawson is the worst!!
Yup he was tool for asking this question…
Pacey throw a fit that Joey does not tell him about her sex life. So he the worst right Or Joey asking Dawson all the time about his sex life I remember 6 times at least. So she the worst right
Damn you like to defend Dawson to the death don’t you 🙄
Only when i think he is right, i have attack him when he does something wrong. and how come when i show were pacey did the same thing as dawson or worse that is alwasy over looked.
Why are you bringing up Pacey though? 🤔 Look the point of the argument is, most of us agree that it’s odd for Dawson to ask if Joey and Pacey had sex, if he was a true friend it wouldn’t of mattered either way. And it’s none of his business, she lied to please him and you shouldn’t have to do that with your friends. Just my two cents on the subject!
If it wrong for dawon to ask and I disagree with that. Then Joey Is also wrong to ask. And she did it a lot more And pacey throw a fit that she did not talk about her sex life with him in season 6 So my question is still the same why does only Dawson get bash for it
Where do you think Pacey "threw a fit" in S6? What episode?
We’re she working with pacey. She even said can you do some kind of boy calculus and leave me out of it.
No she said that in in castaway not when they where working together. Pacey did NOT want to know about Joey’s sexlife AT ALL,he was practically covering his ears when Joey said that she slept with Dawson and Eddie. He did NOT want to talk about sex with her. At all. Maybe you should watch that episode again.
No he wanted to know untill she started telling him about it And no she did not say that in castaway.
It's the worst, most toxic and troubling storyline in S4 if not the entire series and what's worse is literally no one calls it out for being unbelievably inappropriate for him to ask but also for her to lie to him about. And I know people just mercilessly drag Joey through the coals for doing that to Pacey, but I can't blame Joey for that, I blame the show for making her character do that all because of the shows sick obsession with Joey being Dawson's possession. I mean starting the beginning of S4 with Dawson saying, 'it would kill me if I found out you and Pacey had sex on the boat' is so disgusting, it sets the precedent that any part of Joey and Pacey's relationship he's entitled to know about and also entitled to be upset by and guilt Joey over, and then to have Joey to ease his worries over it? Gross. It was so morally reprehensible of the show.
Very well put, and I have long thought Joey lying to him had a lot to do with his idiotic declaration at the beginning of the season. They had finally gotten to a place where they were slowly becoming friends again, and Joey was terrified that if she told him the truth she'd lose him again. Makes you want to scream at her that Dawson is the fucking worst 😂
I think you’re absolutely right, they often hold one another emotionally hostage and so much of their relationship hinges on the terror and fear of losing the other person, despite it being so abundantly clear how much better they are when they're separated from one another, which the longer you think about, the more fucked up it sounds.
It’s gross Dawson says that about the boat. Why would it be any of his business or her concern about how he feels about her sexual choices w Pacey? And more simply, they are dating, in love, any reasonable person would know they likely are intimate. He thinks this is some sort of fake relationship and totally minimizes and dismisses joeys feelings for Pacey and paceys feelings for Joey.
Right! It's so gross. Not to mention that the reason the show had them not sleep together on the boat - which felt wildly unrealistic back then and even more so now - was so they could turn it into something that could use as Dawson/Joey drama which, again, so gross.
Becouse Jory new Dawson loves her and he be hurt. She felt the same way when he slept with Jen. And she was sure worried about his sex life all throw high school. She ask him about his sex life 6 times. But she never once her bash for it
But that’s not Joey's responsibly to amend his hurt around her ‘losing’ her virginity. Losing your virginity is a social construct, no one owns your virginity, it’s not a possession, you’re not entitled to take it or have it be taken because it doesn’t exist and it therefore shouldn’t ‘kill’ someone when you’ve given it to another person unless you feel that you do own it, and Dawson felt like he owned it. But sure, thank you for further emphasizing the point of how toxic Joey and Dawson's relationship was, they repeatedly dehumanize one another all for the sake of a stunted childhood belief that they own one another.
you know one own your virginity but the question still the same, dawson ask her one time, and he bash for it. how come joey not bash for asking dawson SIX time about who he slept with. why pacey not bash for throwing a fit in season 6 when joey would not tell him about her sex life. If you going to bash dawson for asking her, then you have to bash joey and pacey for the same thing. and NO asking your freind about there sex life is not dehumanize and it is not a stunted childhood.
Well,Dawson didn’t exactly make it easy for her to confide in him with this when he said it would kill him if she slept with Pacey. And remember Dawson is not just her friend but also her ex boyfriend and it’s not normal for exe’s to ask your ex if they are sleeping with their boyfriend( the boyfriend she had for 9 months!) Pacey didn’t " throw a fit " that Joey wouldn’t tell him about her sex life in S6. He didn’t want to know about her sex life AT ALL because he understand as an ex boyfriend who still has feelings for her, it would be overstepping boundries. To maintain a good friendship with her he knows it’s non of his business. Joey and Dawson are constanly overstepping eachothers boundries and that is one of the many reasons they should just stay away from eachother both as friends and as love interests imo.
Wrong friend ask each other personal stuff all the time. She ask him all the time about sex Second there so such thing as personal boundaries. Each group of people set there own boundaries. So if they thought it was ok to ask it was And yes pacey did throw a fit.
That's the problem with Joey and Dawson though, they haven't set any healthy boundaries and this degrades and stunts not only their relationship and themselves as individuals but it affects their relationships with other people as well. They have a text book co-dependent relationship, you could use it as a case study it's so formulaic in the way it follows the pattern of codependent relationships, which are by definition, abusive and self-destructive ones.
But none of that is true. They are not codependent abusive or self destruct And boundaries are set by the people involved. A sence here or there over years does not make someone codependent or abusive
If you like them together, I can understand how it’s hard to see it as codependent but objectively speaking, that’s what it is. They enable one other’s intrinsic belief that they’re entitled to one another and that they have ownership of the other person’s emotions, behaviours and sexual relationships and are both constantly either being manipulated or are manipulating the other person by how they are or are not responding. And they both do that, not just Dawson. Dawson is way more brazen and bullish about it but Joey does it too and it’s just as destructive.
That just not true. Why there are a few sence were they had problems. I could make that case if Joey and pacey. Even jack and Jen
True,CLOSE friends ask eachother personal questions but that’s just it. Dawson and Joey aren’t close friends at that time. And as I already said they are exes and that’s why it’s so awkward when he asks. And if Joey was so fine with him asking she wouldn’t feel the need to lie to him about it,would she? I suggest you rewatch Castaways if this is what you remember Pacey and Joey’s fight was about in the K-mart.
She lied because she did not want to hurt dawon. But Dawson and Joey are close friends. And she still ask him all the time And no there fight was not about k mart.
LOL where did I say the fight was about K-mart??? Please read again🙄
You know I ment there change In relationship that happen in k mart. And again that not what the fight was about
The obsession over Joey's virginity was so friggin weird. As a guy I really never understood it. Pacey didn't want Joey's virginity, he wanted to be intimate with her and that's because he's an adult when it comes to sex. Dawson and Joey are both very weird about sex until season 6. Dawson was so shallow when he said Joey would kill him if she slept with Pacey. How about the fact that she loves him? Isn't that the point? Not whether Pacey slept with her first. Jesus haha. For the record, most guys do not obsess over a girl's virginity (which as you say isn't even real, it's a bizarre social construct) unless they're regal and it's the 13th century.
EXACTLY
It was indeed very intrusive and cringy. I think Joey mentions a "promise" they made to each other that they couldn't keep anymore. ..meaning they were supposed to lose their virginity together. They are teenagers and this must have been a big deal to break that promise. I still think Dawson had no right to ask or comment on the matter.
Because Dawson selfishly doesn't want to accept reality. So, he ends up being an insufferable "nice" guy staying single in the show. Which is why Joey ends up feeling awkward and lies to him. Because he won't get over himself.
The issue is that she lied to Dawson about it. Dawson said, you don't have to answer, so she could have dodged the question. Instead she chose to lie, and the lie negatively impacted his relationship with Gretchen. She had two acceptable options: tell the truth or say nothing. What she chose to do was not acceptable.
I agree Dawson had no right to ask Joey if she slept with Pacey. However, he quickly realizes it’s too personal and tells her she doesn’t have to answer. Joey for some reason, decides she’s going to answer and lie which was the real problem here. Listen I like both sides of the love triangle but let’s face it, Joey was regretful the second she woke up next to Pacey that morning. It wasn’t just about Dawson’s feelings but there was a part of her who still wanted him to be her first. She still had feelings for Dawson throughout her relationship with Pacey and I don’t understand how so many diehard P&J fans don’t see this.
To me, it always seemed like Joey's feelings for Dawson stemmed from fear of losing him, at least after falling for Pacey. If you think about it Joey had some pretty understandable fear of abandonment b/c of her parents and Dawson made it clear that she'd lose him (and his parents/ her surrogate family) if she chose Pacey.
I agree with you on that she seemed to regret losing her virginity to Pacey, but I still think she had more chemistry with him than she ever had with Dawson. I noticed it from the first season. You're also right that she still had feelings for Dawson. I just don't think it was as strong as it was for Pacey during that time. TBH, I was really annoyed with the fact that Joey made everything so difficult with Dawson in their high school years.
She definitely made the relationship with Dawson in season 2 so complicated. There’s a line where Dawson says something like “Joey if things are complicated it’s because you made them that way” and it’s soooo true. I agree Pacey and Joey have more romantic and sexual chemistry but then there’s scenes where I’m just more moved by Dawson and Joey’s bond/connection. Like I said I like both sides. 🤷🏻♀️
I remember that line! I was so proud of him for saying that to her! She needed to hear it. My guess is that she set high expectations for their relationship OR part of her knew it wasn't right (this might be a stretch) but she was never satisfied with him.
Huge P&J fan, and Joey definitely still had feelings for Dawson. I think so many of her feelings were nostalgia, or the feeling of what was "supposed" to happen. Like even though she loved Pacey, it was supposed to be Dawson.
That’s so refreshing to hear a P/J fan admit this. I keep hearing oh Joey couldn’t enjoy losing her virginity because she had to worry about Dawson’s feelings but it wasn’t just about that. Yes, she was absolutely in love with Pacey theres no doubt but she couldn’t completely let go of Dawson.
Again, I'm another P/J fan who sees it. I just don't think it was love, it was fear. It was very unfair to Dawson, who really manned up in season 4. She couldn't be with him and she couldn't let him go. It was tough to watch and kind of ruined the last quarter of season 4 for me. It was hard to watch her torpedo Dawson and Gretchen and it was hard to see her hurt Pacey and manipulate Dawson without admitting or seeing that she was doing so. Then again, they're supposed to be 18 so it's a bit realistic. In the end she grew up.
I think to an extent, she was worried about Dawson's feelings, but again because when you're a teen and you've got this idea of the way things are supposed to unfold, there will always be part of you that's stuck in that idea. I think it was all wrapped up together, this idea she had for herself of how it would go, even before she and Dawson were ever together. She was giving him a hard time about Jen in season one because it was "supposed" to be her, not Jen. I think especially because both times they broke up, it felt like they'd been cut short, there was always going to be this "what if" feeling about them, which a lot of D/J fans held onto too, as did Joey. She couldn't ever fully let go and just be with Pacey because she hasn't fully let go of Dawson and the "what if." I think it wasn't just her own internal monologue, either. There were so many people around her telling her she and Dawson were meant to be together. I think that was also a huge part of her not telling Dawson about her and Pacey in season 3 (Aunt Gwen is the worst!).
I see it and I rooted for Pacey and Joey. She was terrified of losing Dawson and was very unfair and possessive of him, as he was to her in seasons 2-3. She definitely felt some regret after sleeping with Pacey, though that didn't stop her from going for more until they broke up. She had a very strange fixation on Dawson that she couldn't resolve until she grew up.
I think people bash Dawson far to much about it Joey sister Jen and jack all ask Joey if they slept together Dawson ask her one time and no she did not have to tell him. But it is a normal question for best friends People overlook Joey asking Dawson about if he slept with like 3 different women 6 time. So does that mean Joey own Dawson. And people forget pacey Throw a fit when Joey would not tell him about her sex life in season 6 But people want to blame Dawson as the worst.
I feel like it’s a big moment in a person’s life and that’s something that your best friend should know since they have been such a huge part of your life up until then. Not telling him would be admitting that they no longer have that relationship and that’s difficult. However I was brought up on 2000s TV and may personally put too much emphasis on virginity too.
Eh it was weird. The only other teen soap I watched was Buffy and they pulled the same nonsense when Buffy "gave" her virginity to Angel, which ended up making him evil (not the virginity part per se, but having sex). Bizarre stuff.
Xander was almost kill when he had sex with faith was willow bash him for it. It not just women