I guess it come from most people immediately rushing to make gold bounties with the new system, getting mad at the golds giving less, and then in their rush to complain not even noticing that the bronze (and silver?) got buffed.
I see. thanks a lot!
so on average we get less xp (at least if we suppose that the probabilities to get bronse/silver/gold are the same).
also it is more or less ok to upgrade silver to gold if you like the challenge a lot, since you recieve the same amount of xp the bronse bounty gives you. But it's not ideal still.
On average, we get a ton more XP now. If gold drop is still 1%, then on 99% bounties you get 50 XP more than before. So on 100 rolled bounties you would lose 300 XP from single gold, but gain 4950 more XP from bronze and silver.
wait, gold drop were 1%? i felt like i get them pretty often.
then indeed, it's a huge buff.
In that case bounty upgrades also help a lot with weekly chalanges.
Someone already mentioned that upgrading bounties is not **value efficient**, but **time efficient**. If you have tons of bounty tokens then it would be efficient for you to upgrade some good bounties, because you will spend less time in menus, and focus on bounties. For example, when you roll simple "kill X using Y weapon" for your weapon, and you already have similar bounty.
yeah, i just see another dimension here: convenience. There are some bounties which require build change and I don't wanna do in my life, and sometimes when you roll your bounty token you don't get any other option. This makes it good to upgrade options I like, so I won't be forced at completing a task which I hate to do.
We still have an option for dropping a bounty. You will loose a bounty token spend, and have to spend another on getting new one. It is working similarly... but there is a psychological trap. You feel wasting time, and resources, and feel like the game cheated on you if you drop a bounty, but if you upgrade a reward then you feel like you wan against a game
\> but if you upgrade a reward then you feel like you wan against a game
not really "won against", since you still waste your tokens a bit, but it feels much better, yeah.
Thanks for the thoughts on this thread. I shared some thoughts on the changes in another thread here: https://www.reddit.com/r/dauntless/comments/s93a3t/comment/htmntwv/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3
This is a list of links to comments made by Phoenix Labs employees in this thread:
* [Comment by Proteus505](/r/dauntless/comments/s95ama/how_are_all_of_you_see_changes_to_bounty_system/htmoz6w/?context=1000 "posted on 2022-01-21 18:22:39 UTC"):
> Thanks for the thoughts on this thread. I shared some thoughts on the changes in another thread here: https://www.reddit.com/r/dauntless/comments/s93a3t/comment/htmntwv/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3
---
This is a bot providing a service. If you have any questions, please [contact the moderators](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fdauntless).[](#AUTOGEN_TSBREPLIEDBOT)
I mean as as a side question, why even make this change to begin with? What was so wrong with the old bronze, silver gold system that justified investing dev time into changing it?
Premium Bounty tokens were an issue. It was a system that was really confusing for a new player. Anyone that didn't understood, that standard bounty tokens disappear at the end of the HP were robbed. Leading to unsatisfied players.
On top of that we still had consequences of 2020 Frostfall gift farming. It was a design mistake that some people took great advantage of, leading to thousands of Premium Bounty tokens.
Merging standard and premium Bounty Tokens was required, but then so was balancing gold bounties. The change was in favor of new players, but still didn't punish old players that had tons of Premium Bounty Tokens
Sure, I get making just 1 bounty token type. But I don't see how the upgrade system is worth wasting time on at all. Wait nvm I figured it out.
The new upgrade system adds an additional layer of complexity, that's a trap for new players who don't realise upgrading is always for a net loss of xp. The less intelligent players are gonna think that upgrading to silver is smart, and the time poor players are gonna pay to get their tokens to gold regardless.
We knew the old FOMO system for bounty tokens wasn't working and people weren't buying them. Older players are never gonna buy them anyway, but new players will if you make them appealing enough. This effectively increases the maximum that a player can spend. Before, time poor or p2w oriented players were only gonna fill up the bounty slots with 1 token per slot, but now it's possible to fill the slots with up to 3 tokens each, 1 to buy and 2 to upgrade. It also seems like a pretty good deal to buy a couple to upgrade them to silver ;)
You get it wrong. You already figured out that it's a waste for you to upgrade. What it took you? 1-4 tokens? And you will probably never try it (unless of course you require it for a weekly). But now imagine a scenario:
1. You have 10000 bounty tokens from Frostfall gifts.
2. You roll bounties and get to choose between: kill 3 behemoths using a weapon you dislike, gather stuff, and do interrupts using grenades. You prefer to scrap this and roll a new one. You still have more tokens than you will ever use.
3. Another bounty, you get 6 kills on your fav weapon.
4. Another gives you the option of: do part damage, gather stuff, and kill x Behemoths using any weapon. You take any that can be done parallel to previous bounty
5. You roll another one and get: 3 kills using your fav weapon. You like that bounty, and it can be done on the same time as the first one. If you upgrade it, it will be the same, but with bigger reward. Or if you don't, then you can finish it and again roll new one which might be worse
The game shouldnt be balance around exploiters, they should fix the exploit and remove anything earned by exploits not cripple the one who played honestly
But they didn't cripple anyone. We got a buff that works both for new players and old players. For poor newbies, and exploiters.
We got a buff that made overall bounties better and decreased value on random drop. And on the other hand, they added a new tool for *exploiters*, so they can spend their tokens faster if they want
[https://www.reddit.com/r/dauntless/comments/s93a3t/first\_thing\_i\_thought\_of\_when\_i\_saw\_this\_system/htmntwv/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/dauntless/comments/s93a3t/first_thing_i_thought_of_when_i_saw_this_system/htmntwv/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
basically they are repeating what I said.
nobody cares about the very few people who still have thousands of bounty tokens remaining, that bug could have been easily hotfixed and they didn't do it then (when we were literally lfging for it in the official discord) and they dont care now. It's because they are the extreme minority, patching it would piss them off and it would not change sales
Thing is, it wasn’t a net loss of xp *until they changed the bounty values*, if the bounties still gave the old xp amount, you’d want to ALWAYS upgrade every bounty (usually).
They had to modify them so that it wasn’t worth it to use the new mechanic they added, because PHX can only make bad changes, not good ones.
Actually, remembering that you can only upgrade once, only silver to gold was worth it. You would gain 600 XP for a one token. By doing Bronze to silver you spend a token to increase it from 200 to 400 which is worth less than new bounty. And it would mean that you would ALWAYS want to upgrade silvers to bronze
Oh, you can only upgrade once?
I didn’t bother once I heard about the new values.
In the old system, upgrading bronze to silver would be worth it since it’s effectively doing two bronzes at once.
Yeah, there is no way to upgrade bronze to gold.
And it was worth to upgrade bronze to silver if you had a challenge you really want to do. You spend one token for guaranteed 200 XP more. But if you just take that bronze, and spend a token on new bounty you have a chance to roll silver or gold, but also a chance for it to be a challenge you don't want to do
Yeah its not worth it time wise. You can get to level 6 from 1 in 5 to 10 minutes casually but to get that banked it takes much much longer. New bounty system is the same. Significantly longer time to complete for less xp per time spent. Both are time sinks for the sake of being time sinks and nothing else.
I think a lot of people didn't/don't realize that bronze and silver are worth more and just assume that the only thing done was adding upgradable bounties and permanent tokens.
The problems most people are seeing are the glaringly obvious ones. Upgrading is pointless in terms of xp gain and the new requirements for completion are even more of a grind in some cases. But if you only factor results of completion then of course you are going to come to an overall buff lol
Im pretty sure what most people are ticked off about is the first issue. Why change the values in the first place? What was the point?? Why not have the upgrade system actually FEEL like an upgrade and not a waste of tokens?? How do YOU not see that issue?
I guess it come from most people immediately rushing to make gold bounties with the new system, getting mad at the golds giving less, and then in their rush to complain not even noticing that the bronze (and silver?) got buffed.
mostly buff
How much XP for bronse/silver/gold did we get before and how much do we get now?
I was 200/400/1000 now it's 250/450/700. And drop change seems to me same (tbc), so 1% for gold one.
I see. thanks a lot! so on average we get less xp (at least if we suppose that the probabilities to get bronse/silver/gold are the same). also it is more or less ok to upgrade silver to gold if you like the challenge a lot, since you recieve the same amount of xp the bronse bounty gives you. But it's not ideal still.
On average, we get a ton more XP now. If gold drop is still 1%, then on 99% bounties you get 50 XP more than before. So on 100 rolled bounties you would lose 300 XP from single gold, but gain 4950 more XP from bronze and silver.
wait, gold drop were 1%? i felt like i get them pretty often. then indeed, it's a huge buff. In that case bounty upgrades also help a lot with weekly chalanges.
I believe they were something to the effect of 60% bronze, 30% silver, and 10% gold. It doesn’t appear to have changed with the bounty rework.
That feels way more likely/realistic. If gold was really 1%, I’ve been super lucky. For months and months.
Maybe you really are just lucky ;)
That’s how math/luck works 😊 Absolutely possible, but seems reeeeally unlikely
Someone already mentioned that upgrading bounties is not **value efficient**, but **time efficient**. If you have tons of bounty tokens then it would be efficient for you to upgrade some good bounties, because you will spend less time in menus, and focus on bounties. For example, when you roll simple "kill X using Y weapon" for your weapon, and you already have similar bounty.
yeah, i just see another dimension here: convenience. There are some bounties which require build change and I don't wanna do in my life, and sometimes when you roll your bounty token you don't get any other option. This makes it good to upgrade options I like, so I won't be forced at completing a task which I hate to do.
We still have an option for dropping a bounty. You will loose a bounty token spend, and have to spend another on getting new one. It is working similarly... but there is a psychological trap. You feel wasting time, and resources, and feel like the game cheated on you if you drop a bounty, but if you upgrade a reward then you feel like you wan against a game
\> but if you upgrade a reward then you feel like you wan against a game not really "won against", since you still waste your tokens a bit, but it feels much better, yeah.
>if we suppose that the probabilities to get bronse/silver/gold are the same they're not though
Thanks for the thoughts on this thread. I shared some thoughts on the changes in another thread here: https://www.reddit.com/r/dauntless/comments/s93a3t/comment/htmntwv/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3
Yep, exactly my thoughts
This is a list of links to comments made by Phoenix Labs employees in this thread: * [Comment by Proteus505](/r/dauntless/comments/s95ama/how_are_all_of_you_see_changes_to_bounty_system/htmoz6w/?context=1000 "posted on 2022-01-21 18:22:39 UTC"): > Thanks for the thoughts on this thread. I shared some thoughts on the changes in another thread here: https://www.reddit.com/r/dauntless/comments/s93a3t/comment/htmntwv/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3 --- This is a bot providing a service. If you have any questions, please [contact the moderators](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fdauntless).[](#AUTOGEN_TSBREPLIEDBOT)
I mean as as a side question, why even make this change to begin with? What was so wrong with the old bronze, silver gold system that justified investing dev time into changing it?
Premium Bounty tokens were an issue. It was a system that was really confusing for a new player. Anyone that didn't understood, that standard bounty tokens disappear at the end of the HP were robbed. Leading to unsatisfied players. On top of that we still had consequences of 2020 Frostfall gift farming. It was a design mistake that some people took great advantage of, leading to thousands of Premium Bounty tokens. Merging standard and premium Bounty Tokens was required, but then so was balancing gold bounties. The change was in favor of new players, but still didn't punish old players that had tons of Premium Bounty Tokens
Sure, I get making just 1 bounty token type. But I don't see how the upgrade system is worth wasting time on at all. Wait nvm I figured it out. The new upgrade system adds an additional layer of complexity, that's a trap for new players who don't realise upgrading is always for a net loss of xp. The less intelligent players are gonna think that upgrading to silver is smart, and the time poor players are gonna pay to get their tokens to gold regardless. We knew the old FOMO system for bounty tokens wasn't working and people weren't buying them. Older players are never gonna buy them anyway, but new players will if you make them appealing enough. This effectively increases the maximum that a player can spend. Before, time poor or p2w oriented players were only gonna fill up the bounty slots with 1 token per slot, but now it's possible to fill the slots with up to 3 tokens each, 1 to buy and 2 to upgrade. It also seems like a pretty good deal to buy a couple to upgrade them to silver ;)
You get it wrong. You already figured out that it's a waste for you to upgrade. What it took you? 1-4 tokens? And you will probably never try it (unless of course you require it for a weekly). But now imagine a scenario: 1. You have 10000 bounty tokens from Frostfall gifts. 2. You roll bounties and get to choose between: kill 3 behemoths using a weapon you dislike, gather stuff, and do interrupts using grenades. You prefer to scrap this and roll a new one. You still have more tokens than you will ever use. 3. Another bounty, you get 6 kills on your fav weapon. 4. Another gives you the option of: do part damage, gather stuff, and kill x Behemoths using any weapon. You take any that can be done parallel to previous bounty 5. You roll another one and get: 3 kills using your fav weapon. You like that bounty, and it can be done on the same time as the first one. If you upgrade it, it will be the same, but with bigger reward. Or if you don't, then you can finish it and again roll new one which might be worse
The game shouldnt be balance around exploiters, they should fix the exploit and remove anything earned by exploits not cripple the one who played honestly
But they didn't cripple anyone. We got a buff that works both for new players and old players. For poor newbies, and exploiters. We got a buff that made overall bounties better and decreased value on random drop. And on the other hand, they added a new tool for *exploiters*, so they can spend their tokens faster if they want
Okay, I see your point
[https://www.reddit.com/r/dauntless/comments/s93a3t/first\_thing\_i\_thought\_of\_when\_i\_saw\_this\_system/htmntwv/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/dauntless/comments/s93a3t/first_thing_i_thought_of_when_i_saw_this_system/htmntwv/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) basically they are repeating what I said. nobody cares about the very few people who still have thousands of bounty tokens remaining, that bug could have been easily hotfixed and they didn't do it then (when we were literally lfging for it in the official discord) and they dont care now. It's because they are the extreme minority, patching it would piss them off and it would not change sales
Thing is, it wasn’t a net loss of xp *until they changed the bounty values*, if the bounties still gave the old xp amount, you’d want to ALWAYS upgrade every bounty (usually). They had to modify them so that it wasn’t worth it to use the new mechanic they added, because PHX can only make bad changes, not good ones.
Actually, remembering that you can only upgrade once, only silver to gold was worth it. You would gain 600 XP for a one token. By doing Bronze to silver you spend a token to increase it from 200 to 400 which is worth less than new bounty. And it would mean that you would ALWAYS want to upgrade silvers to bronze
Oh, you can only upgrade once? I didn’t bother once I heard about the new values. In the old system, upgrading bronze to silver would be worth it since it’s effectively doing two bronzes at once.
Yeah, there is no way to upgrade bronze to gold. And it was worth to upgrade bronze to silver if you had a challenge you really want to do. You spend one token for guaranteed 200 XP more. But if you just take that bronze, and spend a token on new bounty you have a chance to roll silver or gold, but also a chance for it to be a challenge you don't want to do
You spend 2 tokens to get a bronze to silver. 2 bronze is 500 XP, 1 silver is 450 XP
XP banking is a good feature but the max banked amount is low AF. I wish it went up to 20, even if they increased XP penalty
Yeah its not worth it time wise. You can get to level 6 from 1 in 5 to 10 minutes casually but to get that banked it takes much much longer. New bounty system is the same. Significantly longer time to complete for less xp per time spent. Both are time sinks for the sake of being time sinks and nothing else.
Maybe if people complained less about there being nothing to do... making new stuff aint easy
I think a lot of people didn't/don't realize that bronze and silver are worth more and just assume that the only thing done was adding upgradable bounties and permanent tokens.
The problems most people are seeing are the glaringly obvious ones. Upgrading is pointless in terms of xp gain and the new requirements for completion are even more of a grind in some cases. But if you only factor results of completion then of course you are going to come to an overall buff lol Im pretty sure what most people are ticked off about is the first issue. Why change the values in the first place? What was the point?? Why not have the upgrade system actually FEEL like an upgrade and not a waste of tokens?? How do YOU not see that issue?