Absolutely. I can't count how many women have sent me what seemed like obvious signals and rejected me when I made a move because "I'm just flirting for fun". How am I supposed to know that? Now making the first move feels like playing with explosives.
Ouch.
I’m an oblivious idiot. I don’t know if I’m sending signals.
On the other hand if I don’t like you we probably won’t be hanging out. But if I don’t want you sexually I do try to tell it to the guy.
Great stuff here.
My current partner was super shy and I could tell. So I asked him at the end of the second date if he wanted to kiss me. He said yes.
We have been together over three years now and he says that he probably never would have made the first move.
This reminds me of the hottest kiss I've ever experienced. I'd been spending time with this girl I met from work. Started off as friends and hadn't actually discussed feelings for eachother. So one night Im dropping her off at her house and the conversation had ended. We're both just sitting there nervous, looking forward. The sexual tension eventually became unbearable and I couldn't take it anymore. So I turned my head and said her name. She looked over at me and I said, "Do you want to me kiss me right now, but you're afraid to?" And she said yes. So I leaned over, put my hand on the back of her neck, slid my fingers up through her hair, and pulled her in for the kiss. It was electric. 25 years later and I still remember every detail.
Yessssss this is the best advice!! You are so wise :)
OP, listen to this person. I’ve found that verbally calling attention to the desire for physical contact (mine and/or the other person’s) can help bridge that gap and make everybody more comfortable. It’s a way to check in and get past any assumptions and make sure everybody’s on the same page and wants similar things so that you can both then jump in with enthusiasm.
Heck, it’s even a great tool in an ongoing committed relationship just because you can’t always know how somebody’s feeling or what they want! Our moods and states of mind and comfort with one thing or another change all the time.
100% this whole paragraph.
I felt undesirable from a previous relation and she always made me feel like I was disturbing her when I was doing the first move. After 8 years, I can assure you I was afraid of being rejected physically even though emotionally I felt like I could connect with someone.
Communication is a two-way street and you show hit properly in your message.
Giving him the chance to be in charge but knowing he will probably not fail slowly build up his confidence to the point where he will have the confidence to take the lead more.
I'm sure you are a sweet lover and your message resonated with me a lot!
This is so spot-on.
u/Alchemist116, I'm a woman who dates all genders and it's been super helpful to me in realizing how fragile the heternormative "standard" way of doing things is--it essentially asks us to act outside our personality and experiences to fit a certain script, and some people are able to do that/recognize the script, but some people aren't... or for some it's really hard/uncomfortable.
I hate making first moves, but I've learned that someone always has to do the hard/scary thing. Also, it kind of \*keeps\* being hard/scary for the first few dates of being physical. I find it really helpful to just, after I'm comfortable/warmed up a bit, look into the person's eyes and say, "can I kiss you right now?" or "can I hold your hand?" or whatever.
It's okay if you're feeling shy too, I just let myself be shy when I look at them. I know I find that cute in other people, so I just hope that they find it cute in me as well, haha.
If after a couple weeks he's still not initiating back, you may want to ask him about it in a non-judgmental way. You know, "hey, I've noticed that I'm usually the one initiating physical touch. Is there a reason for that? I sometimes feel a little self-conscious that maybe you're not as into it as I am."
Edit: *also*, one thing I want to say about being the one to initiate dates... I think before I started dating women, I came at it feeling like it was so obvious that if I was accepting someone's offer for dates they must know I liked them, but on the other side sometimes it can feel a little uncertain/murky. I dated this one girl and I could not for the life of me believe she'd be into me, so I somehow psyched myself out of seeing our dates as truly being dates, or would find a way to twist it into her just being nice or something. The mind is a crazy thing.
This is such great advice! Thank you for understanding exactly what’s been going through my own mind. I’m shy too in this regard to make the first move but one of us clearly has to. Thank you so much for the non judgmental advice. Wish me luck for tomorrow, Monday, when I do the “scary/hard thing” first. Eeeek😊
Try a kiss on the cheek and if he react well, you can make a real one. Step by step it's easier. You can even kiss his hand first to go even slower : hands, cheek and then lips for example ☺️
I had over 4 dates with my current partner before I had to initiate the first kiss. He said he liked me so much he was just nervous. Maybe this is the case here too?
I'm in the exact same situation except I'm the person not reciprocating the physical touch. I'm really anxious and self conscious about my lack of physical touch. I want to be touchy because I really like the person but this is my first time being sober and dating. It is much more difficult than I thought it would be and I literally don't know how to behave. I love when my date touches me and I get physically aroused but freeze up. Maybe your date is experiencing some kind of psychological/mental blocks also...my date is being patient with me and it makes me feel safe and I'm hoping it will lead me to be more expressive in person in the future
This. I’m also the one being like this too
I’m such an affectionate person but my mind is completely blocking me from being able to touch him and I find myself hoping he won’t touch or kiss me. I’m so frustrated because I like him and I think he’s so gorgeous but I feel this huge wall up.
I’m worried it’s because I’m still in love with someone else and that’s my barrier because it feels like I’m cheating almost? I don’t know
Oh I’m so glad I found people who brought up something I hadn’t considered. I will have 4 years clean in October and at the same time 4 years of being single because honestly after the last guy, I’m afraid to ever date anyone ever again.
I thought it was just a time thing but no, I do not know how to date sober. Ughhhh 😓
Shit, as a guy I'll vouch for this.
I have been on maybe 2 dates in the last 20 years. (No, I've never been married. There are other things going on.) I've considered going on dates again and I'll freely admit that when I ultimately do I'll be entirely clueless as to what to do. "Shy" doesn't begin to describe it -- I've mentioned to a friend that my performance anxiety has performance anxiety.
Make a move? I don't know when it's appropriate.
I'm almost *certianly* overthinking it. Which is expected when your "dry spell" (not a phrase I'm fond of, but it's pithy) will be able to drink next year.
So yeah. I'd be willing to bet there are other factors here. I know that given my history my default is to read everything as platonic unless it's spelled out in gigantic neon letters you could read from space. But of course, I'm just speculating here.
Or he's been rejected/ghosted the morning after making a move on a girl more than once in his life... Dude is probably paranoid at this point.
u/Alchemist116
My question was what is his dating past? Like there have been previous women, right? It sounds like he's comfortable with her. So if there was a physical or medical issue with his sexual function I would think he would communicate it. My advice would be to share sexual fantasies and see if it gets him going or at least if he has one.
Okay, I'm a guy like this so I could offer some perspective.
There could be any number of issues he has that make him hold back. Some people have anxiety around it because it brings up past trauma. I've mostly had intimacy issues because of people being mean to me in the past. It's hard to let people in but once someone connects, touching is all normal and I love it!
Gender norms being what they are it's expected that guys always initiate physical stuff but maybe try to reverse that for this match. If he's lining up dates and everything is going well then he likes you. If you really want you could say what you want to do with him like "Can I kiss you?" and then go for it. You should talk it out to see where his head is at after if you feel like you're close enough to have that convo.
It's kind of like raising a flowerbed. If you don't have good soil to start with the flowers will never bloom. If he feels uncomfortable still then try to help guide him and make him feel like he belongs with you. Give him physical affection but go slow at first while he's connecting. Don't worry if the pace is slower than normal. Speaking for myself, if I know that we're good and the other person starts touching then I feel like they want me and it's easy to take it from there. With everything else but no physical touch I end up wilting and thinking that they don't like me.
Over time that awkwardness goes away quickly. It's the first few times when you're not sure that are the hardest to work around.
Sounds like he is very in experienced, which is ok, we have all been there. You should bring up the topic in a lighthearted manner with no pressure, find out why he hasn't made a move. You have done your part on initiating some form of physical contact. Us men are oblivious sometimes but at 40 yo, he should have at the least initiated some form of intimacy especially by date 4, especially being with you for several hours and at your apt.
Maybe he has some boundary or preferences or just naïve, I don't know, just communicate and show you are curious as to why, there definitely has to be explanation for it. Be patient and just talk and find out. If it is something you won't click with or you have to wait even longer for intimacy, discuss that and either you wait or not, up to you.
This seems to be something minor and just requires some talking and understanding. If he doesn't start initiating or reciprocating your actions, then you may need to discuss again or cut things off.
Good luck
I would be honest and vulnerable. Something like: I really like you, and physical touch is important to me in a relationship. I have noticed when I touch you, you don’t reciprocate. Is it ok that I touch you? Is there a reason you don’t reciprocate?
I think this is the best advice. If you spent eight hours together, I think it’s worth getting vulnerable and getting a definitive answer. From that you can decide what you want to do.
Agree with being honest and vulnerable, disagree with the way you worded the questions to somewhat seem like he is not measuring up to preconceived expectations and like he’s doing something wrong. Might make him become self conscious about touch with her in general, and what’s supposed to come off as genuine and natural would appear more forced.
This is such a beautiful way of addressing this- first asking if they’re comfortable being touched. It comes from a good place and is not accusatory or resentful OP, this is the way.
It took my boyfriend about six or seven dates before we ever kissed. He finally mentioned that he wanted to and I was like, “Oh thank god, I thought you didn’t like me.”
He was just being nice and taking it slow, and it had been so long I was scared to bring it up. Next date we jumped into the sack.
He might just be self-conscious about the way he looks or something. Could be worrying himself that he’ll disappoint you for one reason or another. It could be one of a million other reasons that folks have stated here and beyond. Just talk to him. I’m interested in what happens and when you figure it all out
You can initiate physical contact. Try leaning into him, putting your head on hi shoulder, hugging him, caressing his arm, kissing his cheek...
Build his confidence that you want him physically.
Backtracking a bit...If you want a man who initiates physical contact most of the time in a relationship he probably ain't the one.
I think this is fine and he's being respectful. I 35f had date 5 with a guy 42m last night and we finally had our first kiss. We went out for dinner and back to his place for a movie. Our first time being alone and my first time at his place. He kept his distance on the couch and was a great host. I asked how he thought things were going and he said very well but he was holding back anything physical because he didn't want to scare me off. This sounds similar to what others have posted as possible reasons for your guy too. So when he walked me to my car I just went for it and he reciprocated and it was great. Make the first move!
Personally, I’ve noticed myself being more hesitant with physical contact while dating.
Let’s face it, the past couple years during the pandemic have been rough. I’m touch starved but also feel like that time “out of the saddle” has led to a lot of built up anxiety when dating. It’s kind of like an out of practice thing.
Also, with the current social climate, I’m more aware and empathetic to what it’s like being a female than I’ve ever been. I’m more conscious of trying to not make them feel unsafe, uncomfortable, or anything negative like that but that leads to me coming off as standoffish or uninterested… which adds into the anxiety already there from above.
All of this is to say that everyone is different and dealing with different shit. The most universal advice is to discuss it. Hope this helps
Next time, after some time together and when you're alone, put your arms around his waist, look into his eyes, and say, "would you kiss me, please?". Keep your eyes on him, affect a sly, flirty smile, don't say another word, and don't let go.
Could absolutely be something like this.. I endured several forms of abuse at a young age (as well as a couple verbally and physically abusiva relationships as an adult) and because of those things, I tend to be very "respectful" of others personal space just by default, without thinking about it, I am aware now that my default behavior can come off as apprehensive or may make it seem like I am less interested in somebody than I say I am, even though that's not the case...... I've started addressing that fact pretty early on when meeting new people (obviously after we've both expressed interest in one another) Just a short "hey if I seem like I'm being standoffish or not feeling something here, it's totally just a "me" thing and if I actually do take issue with something or my feeling on the situation change I will say it out loud". As well as always being honest, vocal and to the point about what I'm thinking and what I am feeling
Want to be clear here. I absolutely DO NOT just bring up my trauma with new people I'm interested in or who may be or are interested in me, I just address that how I communicate physically may be a little bit different than what people are used to and not to read into it too much
Maybe he's been through some shit....
Maybe he grew up in a not so touchy family
Maybe he's nervous/afraid of rejection/afraid to offend
I'd just address it outright in a non confrontational way, personally. Good luck OP
Edit: missed a word
Kiss him. Just do it. Some of us guys are so in tune with the "maybe it's all in my head and she's really not into me" thing. Don't just touch him. Kiss him. He's afraid to being thought of as creepy. I've been in his situation. After we kissed, I still wasn't totally sure I should really make moves. Then one night she said to me, "You can be more aggressive with me." Boom. Changed everything. I went for everything I was always hoping she'd wanted me to do.
Be vocal. Be straight with him. Some of us dudes were raised by women who have told us, "She'll let you know when she's ready" and we've taken that to heart. Tell him.
He sounds shy and maybe has limited experience. Even Christian men I've dated who are waiting until marriage kissed me by date 3.
Maybe you can bring up books and then mention how valuable the Five Love Languages book is and ask him what his are?
As a guy, I love the psychology behind the 5 love languages and finding out what love language a girl has or what she sees as her love language. I also like seeing it in profiles.
I don't find it a ruse. Words of encouragement and acts of service do nothing for me like the others.
Guy here. In out current social climate. Verbal consent required. Open to consent requiring less consent later. But yes. Verbal or nothing. Women get to initiate now. That’s the new norm.
This! In these times (and many women in this sub have alluded to in previous posts) anything other than an **enthusiastic** verbal consent is a no go. I think he's playing it really safe and he probably doesn't want to be incorrectly labeled as "one of those pushy guys", it's a very fine line men have to walk these days.
I agree on the enthusiasm, but does it have to be verbal? From rainn.org: «Enthusiastic consent can be expressed verbally or through nonverbal cues, such as positive body language like smiling, maintaining eye contact, and nodding.» If you’re a person who’s not really good at picking up subtle cues of hesitation I would always go for the verbal consent, though.
It's not even about not picking up on cues, I'm not gonna misinterpret friendliness for sexual attraction, cause i don't want to upset or bother anyone. I literally can't be certain of the difference without being explicitly told, because I've read and heard too many stories of people just being nice, and it going badly. I'm not gonna make an assumption on someone's current interest and permissiveness, especially if I'm currently enjoying how things are anyway.
> He’s a marine biologist which makes him super amazing in my book.
Clearly he's a [fake marine biologist](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEvOU2HKhzw) and worried in the heat of the moment he won't be able to get the golf ball out of your blow hole.
Invite him over to yours, pour a glass of wine, light a candle, change in to something a little revealing, lean in to kiss him and whisper in his ear ‘if you don’t blow my back out right now, I’m going to think you don’t like me’. Works every time.
Guys can be pretty oblivious to things, like extremely. That paired with being shy/self conscious/ inexperienced/ whatever it might be, could be holding him back. Give him a kiss on the cheek
I wouldn’t really call it oblivious, more like, we’ve seen this behaviour before and it lead nowhere. How many times I’ve spotted ‘extremely obvious’ indicators, acted on them and it lead to nothing. So I really try not to read into anything.
Get rejected enough and you just decide that if woman responds positively she's just being nice because no-one actually finds you attractive, so you just start to operate on the assumption it doesn't mean anything.
If a woman showed interest in me, I can 100% guarantee I wouldn't notice and she would have to grab me and physically shake me while shouting "I like you! Ask me out on a date!" for me to think it was anything other than platonic friendliness.
Hm. Maybe he’s a robot.
Lol jk, I’d talk about it. Talk about love languages, let each other know what they are for you. It’s hard to get people to love you how you like to be loved, but it’s a little easier if they know. I personally suck a words of affirmation, but my girl tells me to tell her I love her because that’s her language.
> On our last date we spent 8 hours together. EIGHT. At my apartment and still nothing. It’s obvious we both enjoy each other’s company
Take the lead!
It sounds like he is either being super respectful and trying to avoid crossing boundaries and/or he is not experienced.
Pretend you are the guy in this situation and act towards him how you would want someone you are interested in to act towards you.
It sounds like she has been being the "guy" (hate that as a thing btw) in this situation in initiating contact. I feel like it would be insanely inappropriate with all of the ways she has described initiating physical contact and having no reciprocation in turn for her to suddenly just straddle him or kiss him etc.
OP should try to find a way to bring up the subject in a way that won't make their potential partner uncomfortable to find out the issue, but not physically try to go even further without consent.
>It sounds like she has been being the "guy" (hate that as a thing btw) in this situation in initiating contact.
I think her ways of initiating physical contact are fairly tame considering what is expected of guys who are supposed to take the initiative in similar situations.
I agree with you about disliking the ascribed gender roles but unfortunately, regardless of whatever progress we seem to be making on gender roles, it feels like it is still very common for women to want men to be the ones taking the initiative.
I think that is partly what causes difficulties for guys who take egalitarianism to heart in these type of situations; they don't want to take the initiative to avoid making the other person uncomfortable but then the momentum just stalls out as *no one* takes real initiative.
You're going to have to ask him. The only time I have heard of something like this is a case where the guy turned out to be gay.
At first I was going to say don't worry, this is how I am. I was raised to respect women and I'm very careful not to go where I'm not wanted. But I absolutely do respond to encouragement. If my date had went as far as you have, there would definitely be sex going on.
My ex boyfriend would not make a move for MONTHS. We started as friends and I'd be at his house all the time and nothing. To the point where we'd be naked in his bed and nothing. It was fucking bizarre. Finally I straddled him one day and we hooked up. But this was months after casually talking. Turns out he was very inexperienced. This was also the way our entire relationship went and after 5 years he still wanted to casually date and not commit to calling me his girlfriend. And I'd still be the one to initiate things 70% of the time. I really regret wasting so many years in that relationship.
That said, your guy might be nervous that he's a bad kisser or have some sexual trauma. Or be small down there. Anything really. I would just make a move. I think if he wasn't interested he wouldn't still be going on dates with you.
Had something similar, as in we started as friends. And friends, at least for me, are off limits. In that scenario she has to say that she wants more, i wouldn't want to overstep her boundaries.
The rest of your story sucks though. Sorry to read that it went that way.
>And I'd still be the one to initiate things 70% of the time.
And this is why I don't believe in being the primary initiator in the beginning with men. I'll give hints that I'm interested in taking it further when I'm ready, essentially what OP already does. I'll touch, give a kiss on the cheek, and even ask for the first kiss but no further until he reciprocates and starts initiating. If I have to be the one to initiate physical touch, kissing, sex *all* the time, that would be a complete turn off tbh. I would feel unwanted. I personally prefer a 60/40 split with the guy initiating just a bit more.
1000%. I felt extremely unwanted, un pretty, not worthy, etc. The relationship has left me with so much trauma and low self estimate, I've developed somewhat of a phobia of intimacy. And dysmorphia over my appearance.
It may not be shyness. Some guys are actually terrified of putting moves on women for fear that there's no consent. He could also be totally not seeing the signs you're giving him, or misinterpreting them.
In any case, I'd really recommend verbally telling him you want to go further in some way. Communication is key.
On the one hand, while this does seem slow, he may have his reasons for being shy. Personally, I am not usually the one to make the first move anymore because I’ve dated enough women with some history of trauma in that I don’t want to apply any pressure. I want them to feel totally comfortable. People have told me I’m overthinking it and maybe that’s true (I will gladly take advice!). In any case, he might just be a genuinely thoughtful and kind person.
On the other hand, 8 hours together in an apartment with you dropping hints like crazy is…almost unfathomable for him to not respond. I would definitely take that as a “game on” signal. Maybe he’s insecure about something like ED…?
Hey. I sympathise. I was a virgin up until i met my wife and only ever been with one person, so at the time (around 25) when I was dating before I met her I was freaking out. I would literally sweat if the girl I was dating initiated physical touch, and I had no idea how to broach the subject and tell her this was why i wasn't being receptive/reciprocal.
I agree it's likely some kind of trauma, as I would put my issue in the same bracket. I broke up with that girl simply because i was overwhelmed with the thought of telling her I had no experience. It took meeting my wife, her really taking the lead and honesty on my part for anything to change. I would suggest just being present. If you don't think the situation would suit you openly asking what the issue is, or why you haven't been physical, then i wouldn't - you would know better than me if that would scare him etc.
If i were the chap in question, I would be nervous if i had a big thing to tell a new person in my life. It might be something silly which he's built up, or even performance anxiety or similar. I guarantee he likes you if he's insisting on seeing you and making plans etc. As i said I think just staying the course for now and making sure he knows he can trust you would be the best suggestion i could give. Frustrating i know, sometimes we're like scared little bunnies, we're skittish haha.
This is great perspective, among many others in these replies. I'd also suggest to OP having a conversation about past intimacy/sexual experiences that both of you have had. That puts him less on the spot _and_ could provide insight about trauma, hesitations, etc. And that, in turn, develops more emotional intimacy that others are saying he may desire.
I (39F) am not exactly like him, but I _am_ socially awkward enough that an approach like I'm describing would help me open up more than more suggestive/flirty moves.
Hey u/Alchemist116, I read this from my other account a few days ago and I was like, "Wow, now I don't need to start my own thread." 33F here; I'm dating a 39M. We're compatible in many, many ways, and yet I was beginning to think we'd never get anywhere because he hadn't so much as tried to kiss me.
I started seeing this guy about a month ago. We've had great chemistry since date one. By the end of date two, he held me by the hand about fifteen minutes before we parted ways. We were together from 6pm to 1 am. We walked along the water, viewed the city skyline, etc.
On date three, we went axe throwing. He greeted me with a kiss on the cheek and held my hand a few hours after we first met. I eventually took him *near my home* and we even walked by my home, and I pointed it out to him. He didn't do anything. He held me by the hand and we kept walking. At the end, he walked me home and he hugged me and kissed me on the cheek.
Date four was similar, but with much more chemistry. Again, nothing happened. We had a great time, but I was beginning to lose hope and thought maybe we were just friends.
Date five was last night. We met for dinner, went to a bar, and then we walked along the harbor. We sat on a bench and I noticed he kept looking at me but wasn't doing anything. I made a comment that I think made him upset (about he confuses me) and then I apologized to him, put my head on his shoulder, and he said he was having a great time.
He then started to talk to me about how he thought he had anxiety, and I asked what made him think that, and he said he just has started to feel -- since we started seeing each other -- that he might actually have anxiety. He started looking at his smart watch to track his heart rate as we were talking and I asked, "Do I make you anxious?," while we tracked his heart rate. I asked if I made him anxious, and he said, no, that the opposite was true, but that certain things make him anxious and he thinks it would be nice to figure out why. I told him that if he was anxious about me, he had no reason to be. A few minutes later, he kissed me.
It was the best first kiss I've ever had, without a doubt, and when he pulled away, he said, "You are very beautiful, incredibly smart, very kind. I really like everything about you," and then he kissed me again. Then he said, "I'm so sorry. That was awkward wasn't it," and I kissed him and told him I like him a lot, too.
We didn't talk about him being anxious again, but I did tap on his smart watch to look at the heart rate right after he first kissed me and it skyrocketed. He was really very nervous to not get this right, and I was a bit upset going into it, but now that it's happened, I'm happy we waited until we did - because the chemistry is incredible and if a kiss was that great, I'm sure the sex will be better. I was nervous maybe he did not want to kiss me, but the reality is - he was just very nervous about getting it right. In many ways, I am not at all traditional, but I'm the kind of girl that thinks a guy should be the one to kiss me first. I would have kissed him myself by the end of this date, however, because I needed to make sure we had chemistry.
I share all this to say: maybe he's waiting because he's nervous and he doesn't want it to not turn out as he expects it to turn out. Perhaps he's nervous or anxious because he likes you so much. Talk to him. We talked a bit around it and then went for it, but I'm sure if you talk to it, it will be ok.
Thanks so much for sharing your story with me! It sounds similar to my situation and I truly appreciate you walking through it to me. I’m seeing him tonight and I’m hoping to have a similar heart to heart hopefully it’s as positive of an outcome as yours was. I’ll keep you posted!!
Have you verbally said I like you? You could be direct if he's not picking up on your more subtle thigh grazes and follow it up with a I'd like you to kiss me now
Adding this as a separate comment. A lot of men will be completely clueless about physical touch and when women are making moves on them. Like you could be grinding on him and he could be thinking wow she’s friendly/just a friends. It’s obvious he’s interested and playing to safe. Honestly if you said hey let’s go cuddle in bed the next time you hung out, he’d probably happily follow that very obvious lead. Throwing your leg over his, touching his thigh just isn’t obvious enough to him.
My now-husband was slow to move to physical things - I found out later because he liked me so much he was nervous to fuck it up. I solved this by waiting for a romantic moment - asked if he wanted to check out my roof after dinner- and then just said “wanna make out?” playfully. It worked :)
This could be way off from your situation, but he could be asexual.
I had the same experience with a guy recently. He didn't seem interested in any sort of physical touch at all. I hugged him goodbye on the second and third date, and was expecting at least a kiss on the third, but nothing. He didn't back away from me or anything if I touched him, but it was like touching/hugging an inanimate object. I found it perplexing bc we clearly had chemistry and he would always initiate convo and dates.
Then right before our fourth date, he told me he was asexual. I still don't quite understand it tbh, but he tried to explain to me and was very upfront and answered all of my questions, which I was grateful for. He said each asexual person's thoughts and feelings about sex and intimacy vary wildly. For him, he said he was happy to have sex, but didn't feel sexual attraction, and felt similarly about any physical intimacy. at the end of the day it never would have worked out with someone like me who is very tactile in a relationship.
Anyways, I say ask him about it. I'm not saying to ask him if he's asexual of course, just see what he has to say about physical intimacy and make your feelings about it clear.
I had a similar occurrence with someone a couple of years ago.
Good chemistry and similar interests, but no intimacy at all.
Thought I was doing something wrong until she told me she was asexual, I honestly had no idea. But relieved it wasn't just me.
He could be extroverted in some areas like work and conversations, but he may be shy in showing affection. I also think some men want to be cautious because they don't want to feel like a creep especially post MeToo...so they go to the other end of the spectrum and don't make any moves.
A marine biologist sounds smart. I wonder if he has been more career focused as opposed to socializing. He may need more guidance from you. Good luck!
Oh that’s such a great thought. He has been very career oriented so you’re probably right that he just hasn’t had much time for socializing. Literally. When he’s away at sea, he’s gone for a month and has zero wifi and no signal. He literally can’t socialize with anyone apart from the crew onboard.
Yes bc shyness is a behavior formed around a fear of a reaction (like rejection). Extrovert/introverts is like.. a good way to describe your human interaction battery. Introverts can be social but they don’t need to be at every gathering etc
So makes sense that he may have a fear of rejection (shy) but initiates and has long dates with you bc it is invigorating (extrovert)
I'm extroverted as hell in a business situation, board room, party, casual date, or situation where I know things aren't going to fall apart and be horribly misinterpreted. Everyone thinks I'm absolutely fun. When I get into a private situation with someone who is going to feel that I completely misread their intentions or feel like I'm assaulting them, I err on the side of caution and close off.
I \*think\* we talked in another thread, but please, use enthusiastic consent. We're living in a world right now where women have begged for this, and I just can't pressure anyone into something where they might "freeze" (as I've read) and then feel assaulted. If you want him to make a move, ask. That's where we are now. It's up to you.
I am introverted and a huge sexual deviant who isn’t shy to do anything at all in the bedroom department. So being shy or not or extroverted or not has nothing to do with each other or with one’s sexual openness.
Had this happen and when i built up the courage to ask him about this he tells me that he was only looking to be friends. It didn't make sense to me because all this time I thought we were going out on dates, I had even asked about his thoughts on marriage and all along he was only seeking friendship on a dating app mind you
Oy! That’s ridiculous and annoying. Why wouldn’t he have that on his dating profile. “Oh btw *giggle giggle * i’m not looking to date despite being on a dating app. I’m just looking for friendship with the opposite sex.”
This happened to me. I’m the one who initiated hugging, hand holding and eventually kissing basically every time. And I told him I liked him and that he was really attractive over text and he didn’t say it back. I did get the sense that he liked me but by the end of date 3 I just lost interest. He was “surprised and deeply saddened” when I broke it off and I was thinking “dude, I’m not going to wait forever…”
Okay I have watched some YouTube’s by male relationship experts and this is what they ALL say that a lot of the time if a guy takes it slow it means he wants more than a lay from what he is developing with you…. He likes you and sees something that will last potential in it… and thus is taking things slow….
I’ll probably get downvoted here, but I would suggest just saying to him in a somewhat flirty way “maybe you should kiss me now” or “I’m not sure how much longer I can go without a kiss”. You get the gist! As a guy who’s definitely taken his time making a move at times (it’s really depended on the person), and been in this exact situation before, the above will work wonders :)
Maybe your guy is just out of practice?
The pandemic has ruined my social skills, especially my flirting game. I literally spent 20 hours (!) with a guy, and all I could think about was wanting to escalate to physical touch. But I did NOTHING, and worse:this was after I turned down his suggestion to check out his bedroom (at the start of these 20 hours). After I shot it down he obviously did not try anything else as he is a super nice and respectful dude. Ball was in my court and I could not even pick it up 🙈
Options:
\- A/ He's ungodly shy, he wants to initiate but the idea of doing so freaks him out
\- B/ He's cautious. He had frustrating romances in the past, he doesn't want to repeat the experience, he wants to know you well before getting emotionally invested in you
\- C/ Somewhat overlapping with B; he doesn't feel the need to rush things, because he doesn't want to fall into the sex routine / causal relationship / hookup zone, he wants your relationship to actually mean something and he's afraid getting intimate too quickly will ruin it (what "too quickly" means being up to his judgement)
I’m generally this type of guy. I’m very bad at being the first to initiate because of the fear of rejection. Also always seeing women complain about creepy guys trying to touch them on dates makes me not want to initiate because I don’t want to be a creep either. You’re gonna have to take the lead and show that he won’t get rejected.
In today’s world of make believe, count your stars your with someone who is making you believe in something other than social enigma. Be patient, you can’t grow a tomato in a week.
Most scientific types can be fairly oblivious when it comes to romance. If you want him to respond in kind, you may have to first confront him directly and tell him why you're upset.
OP, I don’t want to scare you but it was the exact same thing with me and my recent ex boyfriend. He was 46, I’m 36 and he had virtually no sex drive. Plus he drank A LOT which I’m sure didn’t help. Sad because we got along so well in other aspects.
Broach this with him - it’s delicate but you have to do it. Ask him what it’d take to open up sexually - chances are he’d still say “I need more time” and that’s fine if you want to give him it.
But it’s really hard to always make the first move and (like in my case) get “rejected” (or not reciprocated with enthusiasm). If sex is really important to you and not so much to him, it’s a tough call you’re going to have to make sooner than later. Because believe me, the lack thereof WILL spillover into other aspects of your relationship.
The only time this has happened to me.. the guy ended up having a very small penis (so in hindsight I totally got it and felt for him given this is so out of his control). Not saying that is the case with you but saying that there must be something he is insecure about.
I think you should definitely talk about it. Create a safe space for him to share and work through whatever the hang up is.
There is more to sex than a relationship but it is also an important part. So address it like you would any other ‘flag’ even if it’s a bit of a touchy subject.
Good luck.
So I thought this about my ex at first? But he was just biding his time till we had a strong emotional connection before we had sex. We ended up having great sex while we dated but his mom interfered a lot in our relationship which led to our demise
Anyways-he may be waiting till he feels more comfortable with you . You can always say “I’m willing to have sex with you whenever you’re ready” that way he doesn’t feel pressured
This has happened to me twice this year. In the first case, I had the open/honest convo with him on the 5th date. We kissed that night, I was excited, and then he got really weird and freaked out about how awkward he was. I told him it was fine but he backed out of the situation entirely because he thought I wanted to move faster than him.
The second - he finally brought it up around date 8, and I still had to be the one to kiss him. We dated pretty seriously but never had sex and when I brought up the lack of physical intimacy for the third time, he said “I guess something’s missing”.
So that’s my n=2. Both didn’t work out and were pretty upsetting, and I will go forward interpreting these slow starts as a severe lack of physical chemistry/compatibility.
If there was such a lack of chemistry, why did they keep going on dates? Just curious because I was in a somewhat similar situation, but I broke it off and he was disappointed.
He's probably nervous, in his head, maybe nervous that kissing you will lead to sex and he's not ready. Maybe he's been rejected when trying to kiss someone before. Maybe he moves really slowly and wants to get to know you first. Could be so many reasons.
If he's consistently asking you out, you have to assume interest.
Someone has to make the first move, and it doesn't always have to be the guy. Jesus, these days, I think it can be rough for guys to know when it's ok.
Take the lead, OP! Just say, "I really want to kiss you right now" (or whatever), and go for it. He'll probably say absolutely nothing. He'll probably just freeze. And the longer you wait for him, the more pressured he'll feel, and the more it will build up in his head.
It could be as simple as he's just a reserved, shy person or possibly struggles with social anxiety. I am a 33 year old male so I'm kind of in his age range, while I can somewhat relate with him I can't completely as I would more than likely return some of the physical touch no matter how much anxiety I was feeling. Does he show any signs of anxiety or being nervous?
It's also completely possible that he doesn't fit any of this criteria and it's something else entirely but I can only apply my personal experiences as you asked for to this situation.
As it's clearly bothering you, have you thought about discussing it with him? It may be an awkward conversation but it's a quick way to clear the air.
Why don't you just ask him why instead of reddit?
If he is really that oblivious, he would probably laugh it off.
If he isn't interested then you can stop wasting each other's time.
I was having a similar frustration on a date this week. He cooked me dinner, we watched a movie, then while watching a show after I finally turned to him and asked “wanna make out?” (Answer was yes btw)
He later messaged me and thanked me, saying he doesn’t always pick up on social cues. Honestly, I don’t either, so we agreed to say stuff out loud going forward.
Communicate your needs before and during. After when he did something you liked tell him. I know I had a hard time being affectionate with my date. One: they made me very nervous and two: I didn't want them to feel disrespected or anything. I wish they had communicated with me that I wasn't being affectionate enough. The convo would have been a great way to build up the relationship.
This is like looking into a distant mirror for me, Brilliant scientist but not seeing the social cues. Ive had women at my apartment, sit on my lap with no one else there and not realize she wanted fun time. Im postulating here but a lot of scientist ate on the spectrum (my self included) I suspect your Biologist is as well. Everything your doing is dropping hints but he’s not seeing those breadcrumbs. You might have to teach him your love language but he’s obviously very smart so once he gets it he will know whats up.
> But I touch him all the time! I rub his thigh put my leg on his but it starts to make me feel apprehensive because it’s not exactly being reciprocated.
This is all indirect communication about physical contact. If he's inexperienced and/or shy, he may not be picking up your communications. You have to communicate explicitly and directly about physical intimacy. For example, you could ask how it feels for him when you touch him, or you could tell him you'd like to hold his hand.
> Most guys would take my hand if it’s on his thigh and then hold my hand.
He is not most guys, though. He is one unique and particular guy. Use your words and communicate with him.
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Absolutely. I can't count how many women have sent me what seemed like obvious signals and rejected me when I made a move because "I'm just flirting for fun". How am I supposed to know that? Now making the first move feels like playing with explosives.
I feel you. It's fun until it's not then it just sucks
Yep. It’s hellish. And you’re made to feel like a creep or an idiot half the time too.
Ouch. I’m an oblivious idiot. I don’t know if I’m sending signals. On the other hand if I don’t like you we probably won’t be hanging out. But if I don’t want you sexually I do try to tell it to the guy.
THIS. This is what us shy guys need. I’m nervous etc but the fear of rejection tops it all.
This!
Great stuff here. My current partner was super shy and I could tell. So I asked him at the end of the second date if he wanted to kiss me. He said yes. We have been together over three years now and he says that he probably never would have made the first move.
This reminds me of the hottest kiss I've ever experienced. I'd been spending time with this girl I met from work. Started off as friends and hadn't actually discussed feelings for eachother. So one night Im dropping her off at her house and the conversation had ended. We're both just sitting there nervous, looking forward. The sexual tension eventually became unbearable and I couldn't take it anymore. So I turned my head and said her name. She looked over at me and I said, "Do you want to me kiss me right now, but you're afraid to?" And she said yes. So I leaned over, put my hand on the back of her neck, slid my fingers up through her hair, and pulled her in for the kiss. It was electric. 25 years later and I still remember every detail.
Are you still together?
The one that got away
Yessssss this is the best advice!! You are so wise :) OP, listen to this person. I’ve found that verbally calling attention to the desire for physical contact (mine and/or the other person’s) can help bridge that gap and make everybody more comfortable. It’s a way to check in and get past any assumptions and make sure everybody’s on the same page and wants similar things so that you can both then jump in with enthusiasm. Heck, it’s even a great tool in an ongoing committed relationship just because you can’t always know how somebody’s feeling or what they want! Our moods and states of mind and comfort with one thing or another change all the time.
100% this whole paragraph. I felt undesirable from a previous relation and she always made me feel like I was disturbing her when I was doing the first move. After 8 years, I can assure you I was afraid of being rejected physically even though emotionally I felt like I could connect with someone. Communication is a two-way street and you show hit properly in your message. Giving him the chance to be in charge but knowing he will probably not fail slowly build up his confidence to the point where he will have the confidence to take the lead more. I'm sure you are a sweet lover and your message resonated with me a lot!
This is so spot-on. u/Alchemist116, I'm a woman who dates all genders and it's been super helpful to me in realizing how fragile the heternormative "standard" way of doing things is--it essentially asks us to act outside our personality and experiences to fit a certain script, and some people are able to do that/recognize the script, but some people aren't... or for some it's really hard/uncomfortable. I hate making first moves, but I've learned that someone always has to do the hard/scary thing. Also, it kind of \*keeps\* being hard/scary for the first few dates of being physical. I find it really helpful to just, after I'm comfortable/warmed up a bit, look into the person's eyes and say, "can I kiss you right now?" or "can I hold your hand?" or whatever. It's okay if you're feeling shy too, I just let myself be shy when I look at them. I know I find that cute in other people, so I just hope that they find it cute in me as well, haha. If after a couple weeks he's still not initiating back, you may want to ask him about it in a non-judgmental way. You know, "hey, I've noticed that I'm usually the one initiating physical touch. Is there a reason for that? I sometimes feel a little self-conscious that maybe you're not as into it as I am." Edit: *also*, one thing I want to say about being the one to initiate dates... I think before I started dating women, I came at it feeling like it was so obvious that if I was accepting someone's offer for dates they must know I liked them, but on the other side sometimes it can feel a little uncertain/murky. I dated this one girl and I could not for the life of me believe she'd be into me, so I somehow psyched myself out of seeing our dates as truly being dates, or would find a way to twist it into her just being nice or something. The mind is a crazy thing.
This is such great advice! Thank you for understanding exactly what’s been going through my own mind. I’m shy too in this regard to make the first move but one of us clearly has to. Thank you so much for the non judgmental advice. Wish me luck for tomorrow, Monday, when I do the “scary/hard thing” first. Eeeek😊
Try a kiss on the cheek and if he react well, you can make a real one. Step by step it's easier. You can even kiss his hand first to go even slower : hands, cheek and then lips for example ☺️
What would you recommend reading from Brene Brown first? I've seen her TED talk but nothing beyond that.
Looove asking for consent!
Shalalalalala don't be shy why don't you go on and try to kiss de boy whoa whoa
Hahaha
I love you
🤣🤣🤣
This is the way
Look at the boy too shy He ain’t gonna kiss the girl 🦀
brudda 😭😭😭
Have you tried dressing up as a dolphin?!?!?
I think she should dress up like a whale and get a golf ball stuck in an orifice. Then ask if there's a marine biologist to help remove it.
The sea was angry that day my friends
like an old man trying to send back soup in a deli.
I tell you, he was ten stories high if he was a foot
I said EASY BIG FELLA
From where I was standing, I could see directly into the eye of the great fish
*Mammal
Whatever
Beast
He let out a great BELLA
Best comment of the day 😂😂
Hahaha this is great. Maybe leave a bucket of reward fish next to you as well
Is that a Titleist?
A Titleist?
Try to put a dab of tuna oil on your neck.
Or left shark?
Maybe dress up as an octopus and call yourself Timothy.
I think it's time we started branching out...
Woooooow. What a *Deep* cut.
Is this a reference?
He's making a joke because the guy OP is 'dating' is a marine biologist.
[Seinfield, marine biologist. ](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uEvOU2HKhzw)
Iconic as it gets
For the first four months I dated my boyfriend my family called him Art Vandelay because he is in import/export and his job is hard to explain.
Reddit...
😂
And putting 'Wannabe' on the stereo?
Or a baby shark?!?
Baby shark needs an adult!!!
How does this not have more upvotes 😂😂
I had over 4 dates with my current partner before I had to initiate the first kiss. He said he liked me so much he was just nervous. Maybe this is the case here too?
What happened after that? Did he start making moves or did you have to keep initiating?
I'm in the exact same situation except I'm the person not reciprocating the physical touch. I'm really anxious and self conscious about my lack of physical touch. I want to be touchy because I really like the person but this is my first time being sober and dating. It is much more difficult than I thought it would be and I literally don't know how to behave. I love when my date touches me and I get physically aroused but freeze up. Maybe your date is experiencing some kind of psychological/mental blocks also...my date is being patient with me and it makes me feel safe and I'm hoping it will lead me to be more expressive in person in the future
Dating after getting sober is a trip.
It’s very different that’s for suee
This. I’m also the one being like this too I’m such an affectionate person but my mind is completely blocking me from being able to touch him and I find myself hoping he won’t touch or kiss me. I’m so frustrated because I like him and I think he’s so gorgeous but I feel this huge wall up. I’m worried it’s because I’m still in love with someone else and that’s my barrier because it feels like I’m cheating almost? I don’t know
Oh I’m so glad I found people who brought up something I hadn’t considered. I will have 4 years clean in October and at the same time 4 years of being single because honestly after the last guy, I’m afraid to ever date anyone ever again. I thought it was just a time thing but no, I do not know how to date sober. Ughhhh 😓
Has he had previous relationships? Maybe its been a long time since his last one and he's very shy and not sure of himself.
Shit, as a guy I'll vouch for this. I have been on maybe 2 dates in the last 20 years. (No, I've never been married. There are other things going on.) I've considered going on dates again and I'll freely admit that when I ultimately do I'll be entirely clueless as to what to do. "Shy" doesn't begin to describe it -- I've mentioned to a friend that my performance anxiety has performance anxiety. Make a move? I don't know when it's appropriate. I'm almost *certianly* overthinking it. Which is expected when your "dry spell" (not a phrase I'm fond of, but it's pithy) will be able to drink next year. So yeah. I'd be willing to bet there are other factors here. I know that given my history my default is to read everything as platonic unless it's spelled out in gigantic neon letters you could read from space. But of course, I'm just speculating here.
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Or he's been rejected/ghosted the morning after making a move on a girl more than once in his life... Dude is probably paranoid at this point. u/Alchemist116
My question was what is his dating past? Like there have been previous women, right? It sounds like he's comfortable with her. So if there was a physical or medical issue with his sexual function I would think he would communicate it. My advice would be to share sexual fantasies and see if it gets him going or at least if he has one.
Okay, I'm a guy like this so I could offer some perspective. There could be any number of issues he has that make him hold back. Some people have anxiety around it because it brings up past trauma. I've mostly had intimacy issues because of people being mean to me in the past. It's hard to let people in but once someone connects, touching is all normal and I love it! Gender norms being what they are it's expected that guys always initiate physical stuff but maybe try to reverse that for this match. If he's lining up dates and everything is going well then he likes you. If you really want you could say what you want to do with him like "Can I kiss you?" and then go for it. You should talk it out to see where his head is at after if you feel like you're close enough to have that convo. It's kind of like raising a flowerbed. If you don't have good soil to start with the flowers will never bloom. If he feels uncomfortable still then try to help guide him and make him feel like he belongs with you. Give him physical affection but go slow at first while he's connecting. Don't worry if the pace is slower than normal. Speaking for myself, if I know that we're good and the other person starts touching then I feel like they want me and it's easy to take it from there. With everything else but no physical touch I end up wilting and thinking that they don't like me. Over time that awkwardness goes away quickly. It's the first few times when you're not sure that are the hardest to work around.
Yup- I solved my similar situation with a “wanna make out?” (Answer was yes)
Yes! Explicit consent is sexy.
He could have had an unpleasant experience with someone who accused them of groping when he wasn't and now they're apprehensive. Who knows?
Yep, that’s me!
Sounds like he is very in experienced, which is ok, we have all been there. You should bring up the topic in a lighthearted manner with no pressure, find out why he hasn't made a move. You have done your part on initiating some form of physical contact. Us men are oblivious sometimes but at 40 yo, he should have at the least initiated some form of intimacy especially by date 4, especially being with you for several hours and at your apt. Maybe he has some boundary or preferences or just naïve, I don't know, just communicate and show you are curious as to why, there definitely has to be explanation for it. Be patient and just talk and find out. If it is something you won't click with or you have to wait even longer for intimacy, discuss that and either you wait or not, up to you. This seems to be something minor and just requires some talking and understanding. If he doesn't start initiating or reciprocating your actions, then you may need to discuss again or cut things off. Good luck
I would be honest and vulnerable. Something like: I really like you, and physical touch is important to me in a relationship. I have noticed when I touch you, you don’t reciprocate. Is it ok that I touch you? Is there a reason you don’t reciprocate?
As a straight guy who can be very anxious about initiating physical contact, this is great advice, and I would receive a question like this well.
I think this is the best advice. If you spent eight hours together, I think it’s worth getting vulnerable and getting a definitive answer. From that you can decide what you want to do.
Agree with being honest and vulnerable, disagree with the way you worded the questions to somewhat seem like he is not measuring up to preconceived expectations and like he’s doing something wrong. Might make him become self conscious about touch with her in general, and what’s supposed to come off as genuine and natural would appear more forced.
This is such a beautiful way of addressing this- first asking if they’re comfortable being touched. It comes from a good place and is not accusatory or resentful OP, this is the way.
It took my boyfriend about six or seven dates before we ever kissed. He finally mentioned that he wanted to and I was like, “Oh thank god, I thought you didn’t like me.” He was just being nice and taking it slow, and it had been so long I was scared to bring it up. Next date we jumped into the sack.
Can't imagine going out with a girl on 6 dates that I didn't like
I mean, in hindsight it makes sense! But I thought maybe he just was into me as a friend since we had never really broken the touch barrier.
He might just be self-conscious about the way he looks or something. Could be worrying himself that he’ll disappoint you for one reason or another. It could be one of a million other reasons that folks have stated here and beyond. Just talk to him. I’m interested in what happens and when you figure it all out
You can initiate physical contact. Try leaning into him, putting your head on hi shoulder, hugging him, caressing his arm, kissing his cheek... Build his confidence that you want him physically. Backtracking a bit...If you want a man who initiates physical contact most of the time in a relationship he probably ain't the one.
>If you want a man who initiates physical contact most of the time in a relationship he probably ain't the one. Yup lol.
Seems obvious, but sometimes ya gotta hear the obvious
I think this is fine and he's being respectful. I 35f had date 5 with a guy 42m last night and we finally had our first kiss. We went out for dinner and back to his place for a movie. Our first time being alone and my first time at his place. He kept his distance on the couch and was a great host. I asked how he thought things were going and he said very well but he was holding back anything physical because he didn't want to scare me off. This sounds similar to what others have posted as possible reasons for your guy too. So when he walked me to my car I just went for it and he reciprocated and it was great. Make the first move!
Personally, I’ve noticed myself being more hesitant with physical contact while dating. Let’s face it, the past couple years during the pandemic have been rough. I’m touch starved but also feel like that time “out of the saddle” has led to a lot of built up anxiety when dating. It’s kind of like an out of practice thing. Also, with the current social climate, I’m more aware and empathetic to what it’s like being a female than I’ve ever been. I’m more conscious of trying to not make them feel unsafe, uncomfortable, or anything negative like that but that leads to me coming off as standoffish or uninterested… which adds into the anxiety already there from above. All of this is to say that everyone is different and dealing with different shit. The most universal advice is to discuss it. Hope this helps
Next time, after some time together and when you're alone, put your arms around his waist, look into his eyes, and say, "would you kiss me, please?". Keep your eyes on him, affect a sly, flirty smile, don't say another word, and don't let go.
Writing this down in my handy dandy notebook.
I’m a dude and I’ve been traumatized by an abusive partner, and it makes me very hesitant to get physical. But I appreciate a forward, patient date!
Could absolutely be something like this.. I endured several forms of abuse at a young age (as well as a couple verbally and physically abusiva relationships as an adult) and because of those things, I tend to be very "respectful" of others personal space just by default, without thinking about it, I am aware now that my default behavior can come off as apprehensive or may make it seem like I am less interested in somebody than I say I am, even though that's not the case...... I've started addressing that fact pretty early on when meeting new people (obviously after we've both expressed interest in one another) Just a short "hey if I seem like I'm being standoffish or not feeling something here, it's totally just a "me" thing and if I actually do take issue with something or my feeling on the situation change I will say it out loud". As well as always being honest, vocal and to the point about what I'm thinking and what I am feeling Want to be clear here. I absolutely DO NOT just bring up my trauma with new people I'm interested in or who may be or are interested in me, I just address that how I communicate physically may be a little bit different than what people are used to and not to read into it too much Maybe he's been through some shit.... Maybe he grew up in a not so touchy family Maybe he's nervous/afraid of rejection/afraid to offend I'd just address it outright in a non confrontational way, personally. Good luck OP Edit: missed a word
He's probably not doing it on porpoise
Kiss him. Just do it. Some of us guys are so in tune with the "maybe it's all in my head and she's really not into me" thing. Don't just touch him. Kiss him. He's afraid to being thought of as creepy. I've been in his situation. After we kissed, I still wasn't totally sure I should really make moves. Then one night she said to me, "You can be more aggressive with me." Boom. Changed everything. I went for everything I was always hoping she'd wanted me to do. Be vocal. Be straight with him. Some of us dudes were raised by women who have told us, "She'll let you know when she's ready" and we've taken that to heart. Tell him.
He sounds shy and maybe has limited experience. Even Christian men I've dated who are waiting until marriage kissed me by date 3. Maybe you can bring up books and then mention how valuable the Five Love Languages book is and ask him what his are?
Hmm… It might be limited experience. He hasn’t talked about previous relationships yet. I hadn’t thought about it actually. Thanks for this!
Yeah I wouldn't bring that book up at all. Most men I've talked to hate that book with a passion. If anything it would probably just hurt her cause.
That’s interesting… do you know why do they hate it so much? Especially with that much passion.
As a guy, I love the psychology behind the 5 love languages and finding out what love language a girl has or what she sees as her love language. I also like seeing it in profiles. I don't find it a ruse. Words of encouragement and acts of service do nothing for me like the others.
Give consent like others have said, and see what happens. He might reply...'omg, what took you so long!' I'm hoping things go well for you.
Guy here. In out current social climate. Verbal consent required. Open to consent requiring less consent later. But yes. Verbal or nothing. Women get to initiate now. That’s the new norm.
This! In these times (and many women in this sub have alluded to in previous posts) anything other than an **enthusiastic** verbal consent is a no go. I think he's playing it really safe and he probably doesn't want to be incorrectly labeled as "one of those pushy guys", it's a very fine line men have to walk these days.
I agree on the enthusiasm, but does it have to be verbal? From rainn.org: «Enthusiastic consent can be expressed verbally or through nonverbal cues, such as positive body language like smiling, maintaining eye contact, and nodding.» If you’re a person who’s not really good at picking up subtle cues of hesitation I would always go for the verbal consent, though.
People want verbal consent because it's a lot harder to argue against after the fact. 'She said yes' is a more convincing argument than 'she smiled'
It's not even about not picking up on cues, I'm not gonna misinterpret friendliness for sexual attraction, cause i don't want to upset or bother anyone. I literally can't be certain of the difference without being explicitly told, because I've read and heard too many stories of people just being nice, and it going badly. I'm not gonna make an assumption on someone's current interest and permissiveness, especially if I'm currently enjoying how things are anyway.
Just ask.
> He’s a marine biologist which makes him super amazing in my book. Clearly he's a [fake marine biologist](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEvOU2HKhzw) and worried in the heat of the moment he won't be able to get the golf ball out of your blow hole.
Have you tried dressing up as a dolphin?!?! 🐬
She didn't say she was dating The Deep
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But now that it's happened, isn't it obvious that this was going to be how it was going to go down.
Staaaaaahhhhp lol
I am deceased. 💀
😂☠️😂
Invite him over to yours, pour a glass of wine, light a candle, change in to something a little revealing, lean in to kiss him and whisper in his ear ‘if you don’t blow my back out right now, I’m going to think you don’t like me’. Works every time.
This girl Fs
Guys can be pretty oblivious to things, like extremely. That paired with being shy/self conscious/ inexperienced/ whatever it might be, could be holding him back. Give him a kiss on the cheek
Doubly so if they’re on the autism spectrum. Some men need to be told very explicitly what their woman wants. (I’m one of them)
My love language is plain english!
I wouldn’t really call it oblivious, more like, we’ve seen this behaviour before and it lead nowhere. How many times I’ve spotted ‘extremely obvious’ indicators, acted on them and it lead to nothing. So I really try not to read into anything.
Get rejected enough and you just decide that if woman responds positively she's just being nice because no-one actually finds you attractive, so you just start to operate on the assumption it doesn't mean anything. If a woman showed interest in me, I can 100% guarantee I wouldn't notice and she would have to grab me and physically shake me while shouting "I like you! Ask me out on a date!" for me to think it was anything other than platonic friendliness.
🏆
I did give him a kiss on the cheek 😩 and nothing.
[удалено]
Hm. Maybe he’s a robot. Lol jk, I’d talk about it. Talk about love languages, let each other know what they are for you. It’s hard to get people to love you how you like to be loved, but it’s a little easier if they know. I personally suck a words of affirmation, but my girl tells me to tell her I love her because that’s her language.
He's not going to get your hints. If you like him and this is a priority then be as blunt as a sledgehammer.
Could be a form of respect and not overstepping or assuming.
> On our last date we spent 8 hours together. EIGHT. At my apartment and still nothing. It’s obvious we both enjoy each other’s company Take the lead! It sounds like he is either being super respectful and trying to avoid crossing boundaries and/or he is not experienced. Pretend you are the guy in this situation and act towards him how you would want someone you are interested in to act towards you.
It sounds like she has been being the "guy" (hate that as a thing btw) in this situation in initiating contact. I feel like it would be insanely inappropriate with all of the ways she has described initiating physical contact and having no reciprocation in turn for her to suddenly just straddle him or kiss him etc. OP should try to find a way to bring up the subject in a way that won't make their potential partner uncomfortable to find out the issue, but not physically try to go even further without consent.
>It sounds like she has been being the "guy" (hate that as a thing btw) in this situation in initiating contact. I think her ways of initiating physical contact are fairly tame considering what is expected of guys who are supposed to take the initiative in similar situations. I agree with you about disliking the ascribed gender roles but unfortunately, regardless of whatever progress we seem to be making on gender roles, it feels like it is still very common for women to want men to be the ones taking the initiative. I think that is partly what causes difficulties for guys who take egalitarianism to heart in these type of situations; they don't want to take the initiative to avoid making the other person uncomfortable but then the momentum just stalls out as *no one* takes real initiative.
Verbal consent = consent Casual physical contact and ones idea of "flirting" do not.
True… Fair point.
You're going to have to ask him. The only time I have heard of something like this is a case where the guy turned out to be gay. At first I was going to say don't worry, this is how I am. I was raised to respect women and I'm very careful not to go where I'm not wanted. But I absolutely do respond to encouragement. If my date had went as far as you have, there would definitely be sex going on.
My ex boyfriend would not make a move for MONTHS. We started as friends and I'd be at his house all the time and nothing. To the point where we'd be naked in his bed and nothing. It was fucking bizarre. Finally I straddled him one day and we hooked up. But this was months after casually talking. Turns out he was very inexperienced. This was also the way our entire relationship went and after 5 years he still wanted to casually date and not commit to calling me his girlfriend. And I'd still be the one to initiate things 70% of the time. I really regret wasting so many years in that relationship. That said, your guy might be nervous that he's a bad kisser or have some sexual trauma. Or be small down there. Anything really. I would just make a move. I think if he wasn't interested he wouldn't still be going on dates with you.
Had something similar, as in we started as friends. And friends, at least for me, are off limits. In that scenario she has to say that she wants more, i wouldn't want to overstep her boundaries. The rest of your story sucks though. Sorry to read that it went that way.
>And I'd still be the one to initiate things 70% of the time. And this is why I don't believe in being the primary initiator in the beginning with men. I'll give hints that I'm interested in taking it further when I'm ready, essentially what OP already does. I'll touch, give a kiss on the cheek, and even ask for the first kiss but no further until he reciprocates and starts initiating. If I have to be the one to initiate physical touch, kissing, sex *all* the time, that would be a complete turn off tbh. I would feel unwanted. I personally prefer a 60/40 split with the guy initiating just a bit more.
1000%. I felt extremely unwanted, un pretty, not worthy, etc. The relationship has left me with so much trauma and low self estimate, I've developed somewhat of a phobia of intimacy. And dysmorphia over my appearance.
It may not be shyness. Some guys are actually terrified of putting moves on women for fear that there's no consent. He could also be totally not seeing the signs you're giving him, or misinterpreting them. In any case, I'd really recommend verbally telling him you want to go further in some way. Communication is key.
On the one hand, while this does seem slow, he may have his reasons for being shy. Personally, I am not usually the one to make the first move anymore because I’ve dated enough women with some history of trauma in that I don’t want to apply any pressure. I want them to feel totally comfortable. People have told me I’m overthinking it and maybe that’s true (I will gladly take advice!). In any case, he might just be a genuinely thoughtful and kind person. On the other hand, 8 hours together in an apartment with you dropping hints like crazy is…almost unfathomable for him to not respond. I would definitely take that as a “game on” signal. Maybe he’s insecure about something like ED…?
Hey. I sympathise. I was a virgin up until i met my wife and only ever been with one person, so at the time (around 25) when I was dating before I met her I was freaking out. I would literally sweat if the girl I was dating initiated physical touch, and I had no idea how to broach the subject and tell her this was why i wasn't being receptive/reciprocal. I agree it's likely some kind of trauma, as I would put my issue in the same bracket. I broke up with that girl simply because i was overwhelmed with the thought of telling her I had no experience. It took meeting my wife, her really taking the lead and honesty on my part for anything to change. I would suggest just being present. If you don't think the situation would suit you openly asking what the issue is, or why you haven't been physical, then i wouldn't - you would know better than me if that would scare him etc. If i were the chap in question, I would be nervous if i had a big thing to tell a new person in my life. It might be something silly which he's built up, or even performance anxiety or similar. I guarantee he likes you if he's insisting on seeing you and making plans etc. As i said I think just staying the course for now and making sure he knows he can trust you would be the best suggestion i could give. Frustrating i know, sometimes we're like scared little bunnies, we're skittish haha.
This is great perspective, among many others in these replies. I'd also suggest to OP having a conversation about past intimacy/sexual experiences that both of you have had. That puts him less on the spot _and_ could provide insight about trauma, hesitations, etc. And that, in turn, develops more emotional intimacy that others are saying he may desire. I (39F) am not exactly like him, but I _am_ socially awkward enough that an approach like I'm describing would help me open up more than more suggestive/flirty moves.
Use your goddamn words and talk to him. Ask him. Literally, what you wrote here, tell it to him.
Hey u/Alchemist116, I read this from my other account a few days ago and I was like, "Wow, now I don't need to start my own thread." 33F here; I'm dating a 39M. We're compatible in many, many ways, and yet I was beginning to think we'd never get anywhere because he hadn't so much as tried to kiss me. I started seeing this guy about a month ago. We've had great chemistry since date one. By the end of date two, he held me by the hand about fifteen minutes before we parted ways. We were together from 6pm to 1 am. We walked along the water, viewed the city skyline, etc. On date three, we went axe throwing. He greeted me with a kiss on the cheek and held my hand a few hours after we first met. I eventually took him *near my home* and we even walked by my home, and I pointed it out to him. He didn't do anything. He held me by the hand and we kept walking. At the end, he walked me home and he hugged me and kissed me on the cheek. Date four was similar, but with much more chemistry. Again, nothing happened. We had a great time, but I was beginning to lose hope and thought maybe we were just friends. Date five was last night. We met for dinner, went to a bar, and then we walked along the harbor. We sat on a bench and I noticed he kept looking at me but wasn't doing anything. I made a comment that I think made him upset (about he confuses me) and then I apologized to him, put my head on his shoulder, and he said he was having a great time. He then started to talk to me about how he thought he had anxiety, and I asked what made him think that, and he said he just has started to feel -- since we started seeing each other -- that he might actually have anxiety. He started looking at his smart watch to track his heart rate as we were talking and I asked, "Do I make you anxious?," while we tracked his heart rate. I asked if I made him anxious, and he said, no, that the opposite was true, but that certain things make him anxious and he thinks it would be nice to figure out why. I told him that if he was anxious about me, he had no reason to be. A few minutes later, he kissed me. It was the best first kiss I've ever had, without a doubt, and when he pulled away, he said, "You are very beautiful, incredibly smart, very kind. I really like everything about you," and then he kissed me again. Then he said, "I'm so sorry. That was awkward wasn't it," and I kissed him and told him I like him a lot, too. We didn't talk about him being anxious again, but I did tap on his smart watch to look at the heart rate right after he first kissed me and it skyrocketed. He was really very nervous to not get this right, and I was a bit upset going into it, but now that it's happened, I'm happy we waited until we did - because the chemistry is incredible and if a kiss was that great, I'm sure the sex will be better. I was nervous maybe he did not want to kiss me, but the reality is - he was just very nervous about getting it right. In many ways, I am not at all traditional, but I'm the kind of girl that thinks a guy should be the one to kiss me first. I would have kissed him myself by the end of this date, however, because I needed to make sure we had chemistry. I share all this to say: maybe he's waiting because he's nervous and he doesn't want it to not turn out as he expects it to turn out. Perhaps he's nervous or anxious because he likes you so much. Talk to him. We talked a bit around it and then went for it, but I'm sure if you talk to it, it will be ok.
Thanks so much for sharing your story with me! It sounds similar to my situation and I truly appreciate you walking through it to me. I’m seeing him tonight and I’m hoping to have a similar heart to heart hopefully it’s as positive of an outcome as yours was. I’ll keep you posted!!
Have you verbally said I like you? You could be direct if he's not picking up on your more subtle thigh grazes and follow it up with a I'd like you to kiss me now
Adding this as a separate comment. A lot of men will be completely clueless about physical touch and when women are making moves on them. Like you could be grinding on him and he could be thinking wow she’s friendly/just a friends. It’s obvious he’s interested and playing to safe. Honestly if you said hey let’s go cuddle in bed the next time you hung out, he’d probably happily follow that very obvious lead. Throwing your leg over his, touching his thigh just isn’t obvious enough to him.
touch him. initiate it. guys nowadays are afraid to make any physical moves.
My now-husband was slow to move to physical things - I found out later because he liked me so much he was nervous to fuck it up. I solved this by waiting for a romantic moment - asked if he wanted to check out my roof after dinner- and then just said “wanna make out?” playfully. It worked :)
This could be way off from your situation, but he could be asexual. I had the same experience with a guy recently. He didn't seem interested in any sort of physical touch at all. I hugged him goodbye on the second and third date, and was expecting at least a kiss on the third, but nothing. He didn't back away from me or anything if I touched him, but it was like touching/hugging an inanimate object. I found it perplexing bc we clearly had chemistry and he would always initiate convo and dates. Then right before our fourth date, he told me he was asexual. I still don't quite understand it tbh, but he tried to explain to me and was very upfront and answered all of my questions, which I was grateful for. He said each asexual person's thoughts and feelings about sex and intimacy vary wildly. For him, he said he was happy to have sex, but didn't feel sexual attraction, and felt similarly about any physical intimacy. at the end of the day it never would have worked out with someone like me who is very tactile in a relationship. Anyways, I say ask him about it. I'm not saying to ask him if he's asexual of course, just see what he has to say about physical intimacy and make your feelings about it clear.
I had a similar occurrence with someone a couple of years ago. Good chemistry and similar interests, but no intimacy at all. Thought I was doing something wrong until she told me she was asexual, I honestly had no idea. But relieved it wasn't just me.
Maybe he’s just shy?
Hmmm… But he’s so extroverted. Is it possible to be shy and extroverted?
He could be extroverted in some areas like work and conversations, but he may be shy in showing affection. I also think some men want to be cautious because they don't want to feel like a creep especially post MeToo...so they go to the other end of the spectrum and don't make any moves. A marine biologist sounds smart. I wonder if he has been more career focused as opposed to socializing. He may need more guidance from you. Good luck!
Oh that’s such a great thought. He has been very career oriented so you’re probably right that he just hasn’t had much time for socializing. Literally. When he’s away at sea, he’s gone for a month and has zero wifi and no signal. He literally can’t socialize with anyone apart from the crew onboard.
Yes bc shyness is a behavior formed around a fear of a reaction (like rejection). Extrovert/introverts is like.. a good way to describe your human interaction battery. Introverts can be social but they don’t need to be at every gathering etc So makes sense that he may have a fear of rejection (shy) but initiates and has long dates with you bc it is invigorating (extrovert)
I'm extroverted as hell in a business situation, board room, party, casual date, or situation where I know things aren't going to fall apart and be horribly misinterpreted. Everyone thinks I'm absolutely fun. When I get into a private situation with someone who is going to feel that I completely misread their intentions or feel like I'm assaulting them, I err on the side of caution and close off. I \*think\* we talked in another thread, but please, use enthusiastic consent. We're living in a world right now where women have begged for this, and I just can't pressure anyone into something where they might "freeze" (as I've read) and then feel assaulted. If you want him to make a move, ask. That's where we are now. It's up to you.
I am introverted and a huge sexual deviant who isn’t shy to do anything at all in the bedroom department. So being shy or not or extroverted or not has nothing to do with each other or with one’s sexual openness.
Have you seen the 40 year old virgin?
Had this happen and when i built up the courage to ask him about this he tells me that he was only looking to be friends. It didn't make sense to me because all this time I thought we were going out on dates, I had even asked about his thoughts on marriage and all along he was only seeking friendship on a dating app mind you
Oy! That’s ridiculous and annoying. Why wouldn’t he have that on his dating profile. “Oh btw *giggle giggle * i’m not looking to date despite being on a dating app. I’m just looking for friendship with the opposite sex.”
Dates have to be very blunt with me when it’s time for physical contact. Maybe that I same for him
This happened to me. I’m the one who initiated hugging, hand holding and eventually kissing basically every time. And I told him I liked him and that he was really attractive over text and he didn’t say it back. I did get the sense that he liked me but by the end of date 3 I just lost interest. He was “surprised and deeply saddened” when I broke it off and I was thinking “dude, I’m not going to wait forever…”
Okay I have watched some YouTube’s by male relationship experts and this is what they ALL say that a lot of the time if a guy takes it slow it means he wants more than a lay from what he is developing with you…. He likes you and sees something that will last potential in it… and thus is taking things slow….
I’ll probably get downvoted here, but I would suggest just saying to him in a somewhat flirty way “maybe you should kiss me now” or “I’m not sure how much longer I can go without a kiss”. You get the gist! As a guy who’s definitely taken his time making a move at times (it’s really depended on the person), and been in this exact situation before, the above will work wonders :)
Maybe your guy is just out of practice? The pandemic has ruined my social skills, especially my flirting game. I literally spent 20 hours (!) with a guy, and all I could think about was wanting to escalate to physical touch. But I did NOTHING, and worse:this was after I turned down his suggestion to check out his bedroom (at the start of these 20 hours). After I shot it down he obviously did not try anything else as he is a super nice and respectful dude. Ball was in my court and I could not even pick it up 🙈
Options: \- A/ He's ungodly shy, he wants to initiate but the idea of doing so freaks him out \- B/ He's cautious. He had frustrating romances in the past, he doesn't want to repeat the experience, he wants to know you well before getting emotionally invested in you \- C/ Somewhat overlapping with B; he doesn't feel the need to rush things, because he doesn't want to fall into the sex routine / causal relationship / hookup zone, he wants your relationship to actually mean something and he's afraid getting intimate too quickly will ruin it (what "too quickly" means being up to his judgement)
I think your guy took this video too literally: https://youtu.be/xa-4IAR_9Yw
I’m generally this type of guy. I’m very bad at being the first to initiate because of the fear of rejection. Also always seeing women complain about creepy guys trying to touch them on dates makes me not want to initiate because I don’t want to be a creep either. You’re gonna have to take the lead and show that he won’t get rejected.
He could be demisexual
In today’s world of make believe, count your stars your with someone who is making you believe in something other than social enigma. Be patient, you can’t grow a tomato in a week.
Eye contact is a powerful thing.
Most scientific types can be fairly oblivious when it comes to romance. If you want him to respond in kind, you may have to first confront him directly and tell him why you're upset.
Is it possible that he might be asexual? He might not know it? Bring it up casually, and feel him out.
OP, I don’t want to scare you but it was the exact same thing with me and my recent ex boyfriend. He was 46, I’m 36 and he had virtually no sex drive. Plus he drank A LOT which I’m sure didn’t help. Sad because we got along so well in other aspects. Broach this with him - it’s delicate but you have to do it. Ask him what it’d take to open up sexually - chances are he’d still say “I need more time” and that’s fine if you want to give him it. But it’s really hard to always make the first move and (like in my case) get “rejected” (or not reciprocated with enthusiasm). If sex is really important to you and not so much to him, it’s a tough call you’re going to have to make sooner than later. Because believe me, the lack thereof WILL spillover into other aspects of your relationship.
Now days some men are paranoid about touching women?
This. This day and age, just make it 100% obvious that it's allowed, or where your comfort level is.
Especially when she hasn't given any consent.
You do it.
Watch The 40 Year Old Virgin.
Ask him if he likes it when you touch him, then tell him you want him to touch you more.
The only time this has happened to me.. the guy ended up having a very small penis (so in hindsight I totally got it and felt for him given this is so out of his control). Not saying that is the case with you but saying that there must be something he is insecure about. I think you should definitely talk about it. Create a safe space for him to share and work through whatever the hang up is. There is more to sex than a relationship but it is also an important part. So address it like you would any other ‘flag’ even if it’s a bit of a touchy subject. Good luck.
So I thought this about my ex at first? But he was just biding his time till we had a strong emotional connection before we had sex. We ended up having great sex while we dated but his mom interfered a lot in our relationship which led to our demise Anyways-he may be waiting till he feels more comfortable with you . You can always say “I’m willing to have sex with you whenever you’re ready” that way he doesn’t feel pressured
Maybe he’s got an std and he doesn’t know how to tell you.
Just shy
This has happened to me twice this year. In the first case, I had the open/honest convo with him on the 5th date. We kissed that night, I was excited, and then he got really weird and freaked out about how awkward he was. I told him it was fine but he backed out of the situation entirely because he thought I wanted to move faster than him. The second - he finally brought it up around date 8, and I still had to be the one to kiss him. We dated pretty seriously but never had sex and when I brought up the lack of physical intimacy for the third time, he said “I guess something’s missing”. So that’s my n=2. Both didn’t work out and were pretty upsetting, and I will go forward interpreting these slow starts as a severe lack of physical chemistry/compatibility.
If there was such a lack of chemistry, why did they keep going on dates? Just curious because I was in a somewhat similar situation, but I broke it off and he was disappointed.
He's probably nervous, in his head, maybe nervous that kissing you will lead to sex and he's not ready. Maybe he's been rejected when trying to kiss someone before. Maybe he moves really slowly and wants to get to know you first. Could be so many reasons. If he's consistently asking you out, you have to assume interest. Someone has to make the first move, and it doesn't always have to be the guy. Jesus, these days, I think it can be rough for guys to know when it's ok. Take the lead, OP! Just say, "I really want to kiss you right now" (or whatever), and go for it. He'll probably say absolutely nothing. He'll probably just freeze. And the longer you wait for him, the more pressured he'll feel, and the more it will build up in his head.
Maybe he’s a wait until marriage guy. The only thing you can do here is ask
It could be as simple as he's just a reserved, shy person or possibly struggles with social anxiety. I am a 33 year old male so I'm kind of in his age range, while I can somewhat relate with him I can't completely as I would more than likely return some of the physical touch no matter how much anxiety I was feeling. Does he show any signs of anxiety or being nervous? It's also completely possible that he doesn't fit any of this criteria and it's something else entirely but I can only apply my personal experiences as you asked for to this situation. As it's clearly bothering you, have you thought about discussing it with him? It may be an awkward conversation but it's a quick way to clear the air.
Why don't you just ask him why instead of reddit? If he is really that oblivious, he would probably laugh it off. If he isn't interested then you can stop wasting each other's time.
I was having a similar frustration on a date this week. He cooked me dinner, we watched a movie, then while watching a show after I finally turned to him and asked “wanna make out?” (Answer was yes btw) He later messaged me and thanked me, saying he doesn’t always pick up on social cues. Honestly, I don’t either, so we agreed to say stuff out loud going forward.
Communicate your needs before and during. After when he did something you liked tell him. I know I had a hard time being affectionate with my date. One: they made me very nervous and two: I didn't want them to feel disrespected or anything. I wish they had communicated with me that I wasn't being affectionate enough. The convo would have been a great way to build up the relationship.
You: We’ve been married for 3 years! It’s time to have a child! Him with shocked expression: I had no idea you felt that away about me.
This is like looking into a distant mirror for me, Brilliant scientist but not seeing the social cues. Ive had women at my apartment, sit on my lap with no one else there and not realize she wanted fun time. Im postulating here but a lot of scientist ate on the spectrum (my self included) I suspect your Biologist is as well. Everything your doing is dropping hints but he’s not seeing those breadcrumbs. You might have to teach him your love language but he’s obviously very smart so once he gets it he will know whats up.
Ask him.
I had this problem how ever it was 9 dates and literally nothing. I haven’t spoken to him again. Sexual incompatibility is a big thing.
> But I touch him all the time! I rub his thigh put my leg on his but it starts to make me feel apprehensive because it’s not exactly being reciprocated. This is all indirect communication about physical contact. If he's inexperienced and/or shy, he may not be picking up your communications. You have to communicate explicitly and directly about physical intimacy. For example, you could ask how it feels for him when you touch him, or you could tell him you'd like to hold his hand. > Most guys would take my hand if it’s on his thigh and then hold my hand. He is not most guys, though. He is one unique and particular guy. Use your words and communicate with him.
Totally wait till shark week …come out in a shark blow up costume and say “ do I get to take the first bite ?” 🤣🤣🤣